Engine 'fell off or failed'

[darksecrets]

I found this thread http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2771553/

It seems to be discussing if an engine fell off or failed over the atlantic???? thought this would have had more publicity to be honest, anyone got any info :confused:

[HotDog]

It didn't fall off; it failed.

[darksecrets]

I must confess, it does sound a bit suspect, i mean what are the chances of actually staying in the air should an engine 'fall off'?. I've seen reports of engines falling off on TO and the outcome hasn't been successful (albeit a critical phase off flight) i assume depending on the amount of damage to the wing, will determine the possability :confused:

[HotDog]

The physical loss of an engine (engine separation) is survivable provided no major secondary damage eventuates. After the El Al double engine seperation, which resulted in the loss of the aircraft, the scenario was introduced into our simulator programs.

March 31, 1993December 29, 1972
Anchorage Alaska, Flight 46E
Boeing B-747-121
N47EV

The No.2 engine and pylon separated from the aircraft at 2,000 feet. The plane landed safely. The engine separation was due to an encounter with severe or possibly extreme turbulence and a fatigue crack.

[Pub User]

Another example of an engine detaching in flight:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19981114-0

[Twitcher]

I cannot yet find any links but there was another B707 that had two engines detach in flight and that too managed to land successfully in France.

[ezybus]

The el al cargo 747 in amsterdam a few years ago had engines fall off atfter take off and crashed

[CR2]

Twitcher. I believe that was Kabo Air Flying LUX-KAN. They got it down in Istres; remember reading an article about it.

Edit: Found this

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19920331-0&lang=en

The Boeing 707 took off from Luxembourg at 07:14 for an IFR flight to Kano, carrying 38 tonnes of freight. The aircraft, on a heading of 199deg, when passing VILAR and the VOR of Martigues, was authorized to leave FL290 for FL330. This flight section was performed in IMC in turbulent air. With the throttles at climb power and autopilot engaged the aircraft was flying at 280 knots IAS passing FL320. At this moment, the crew was experiencing severe turbulence and heard a double 'bang'. The aircraft suddenly rolled to the right. The captain disengaged autopilot and struggled to keep control by countering with control stick and rudder pedals. The continuous fire warning system sounded, but could not be switched off by the flight engineer. The first officer noted that the no. 4 engine had separated and sent out a Mayday call (at 08:11). The crew started the descend towards Marseilles and initiated the fuel dumping procedure. During the descent the first officer noted an airfield ahead (which was Istres) and was Marseilles transferred the aircraft to Istres Control. A left hand circuit was flown for a runway 15 landing at Istres. The plane touched down slightly to the left of the centreline at a 190 knots speed. Emergency brakes had to be used to decelerate. The left main gear tyres burst during the landing roll and the flight engineer selected maximum reverse thrust on the no. 2 engine. After a 2300m ground roll, the 707 went off the left side of the runway and stopped 250m further on. The fire on the right wing (which had erupted in the final approach phase) was put out. The landing took place at 08.35, about 24min after engine separation. The aircraft had just been acquired by Trans-Air Service and had started flying on March 3, 1992 after having been stored at Southend since October 24, 1990. Between March 4 and Mach 31 the aircraft had accumulated 116 flying hours in 34 flights.

PROBABLE CAUSE: "The accident resulted from the fracture of the right inboard engine pylon fitting, in such conditions that this engine came to hit and tore away the outboard engine. The AD, imposing periodic monitoring of the midspar fitting, proved to be insufficiently efficient."

[wingedwilliam]

The link to the official investigation report (in French I'm afraid...):
http://www.bea-fr.org/docspa/1992/5n-s920331/htm/5n-s920331.html



WW.

[411A]

In the earlier days of jet transport flying, a few engines completely separated from the aircraft (chucked off the pylon) due to jet upset incidents, and the eventual (hopeful) recoveries.

Nasty business this...:uhoh:

[TOGA Descent]

During Operation Desert Storm, and Engine fell off a KC-135 tanker during flight. The aircraft landed without further incident. The aircraft Commander / Pilot is currently working for a US based airline. Yes, aircraft can still fly with large parts missing.

[Dave Gittins]

I Recall a BOAC 707 at Heathrow in about 1967 which lost an engine entirely, it departed on 28 L (as it was) and made a very tight LH circuit to land and burn in 05R. I think casualties were in single figures with everybody else escaping.

DGG

[HotDog]

Accident


languages: Status: Final
Date: 08 APR 1968
Time: ca 15:35
Type: Boeing 707-465
Operator: BOAC
Registration: G-ARWE
C/n / msn: 18373/302
Year built: 1962
Total airframe hrs: 20870
Engines: 4 Rolls Royce 508 Conway
Crew: Fatalities: 1 / Occupants: 11
Passengers: Fatalities: 4 / Occupants: 116
Total: Fatalities: 5 / Occupants: 127
Airplane damage: Written off
Location: London-Heathrow Airport (LHR) (United Kingdom)
Phase: Initial climb
Nature: International Scheduled Passenger
Departure airport: London-Heathrow Airport (LHR)
Destination airport: Zürich-Kloten Airport (ZRH)
Flightnumber: 712
Narrative:
The aircraft was operating Flight BA 712 from London-Heathrow Airport to Zürich and Sydney. A check pilot was on the aircraft for the purpose of carrying out a route check on the pilot-in-command. The aircraft became airborne from runway 28L at 15:27 and 20 seconds later, just before the time for the noise abatement power reduction, the flight crew felt and heard a combined shock and bang. The thrust lever for the No. 2 engine "kicked" towards the closed position and at the same time the instruments showed that the engine was running down. The captain ordered the engine failure drill. Because the undercarriage was retracted, the warning horn sounded when the flight engineer fully retarded the thrust lever; the check pilot and flight-engineer simultaneously went for and pulled the horn cancel switch on the pedestal whilst the co-pilot instinctively but in error pressed the fire bell cancel button. In front of him the flight-engineer went for the engine fire shut-off handle but he did not pull it. The check pilot then reported seeing a serious fire in the No. 2 engine. Having initially started an engine failure drill, the flight engineer changed directly to the engine fire drill. ATC originally offered the pilot-in-command a landing back on runway 28L and alerted the fire services but after a "Mayday" call Flight 712 was offered runway 05R which was accepted as it would result in a shorter flight path. About 1,5 minutes after the start of the fire, No. 2 engine, together with part of its pylon, became detached and fell into a waterfilled gravel pit. At about the time the engine fell away the undercarriage was lowered and full flap selected. The undercarriage locked down normally but the hydraulic pressure and contents were seen to fall and the flaps stopped extending at 47deg, that is 3deg short of their full range. The approach to runway 05R was made from a difficult position, the aircraft being close to the runway and having reached a height of about 3000 feet and a speed of 225 kt. There is no glide slope guidance to this runway but the approach was well judged and touchdown was achieved approximately 400 yards beyond the threshold. The aircraft came to a stop just to the left of the runway centre line, about 1800 yards from the threshold.
After the aircraft came to rest the flight engineer commenced the engine shut-down drill and closed the start levers. Almost simultaneously the pilot-in-command ordered fire drill on the remaining engines. Before this could be carried out there was an explosion from the port wing which increased the intensity of the fire and blew fragments of the wing over to the starboard side of the aircraft. The pilot-in-command then ordered immediate evacuation of the flight deck. The engine fire shut-off handles were not pulled and the fuel booster pumps and main electrical supply were not switched off. There were more explosions and fuel, which was released from the port tanks, spread underneath the aircraft and greatly enlarged the area of the fire. The cabin crew had made preparations for an emergency landing and as the aircraft came to a stop opened the emergency exits and started rigging the escape chutes. The passengers commenced evacuation from the two starboard overwing exits and shortly afterwards, when the escape chutes had been inflated, from the rear starboard galley door and then the forward starboard galley door. However, because of the spread of the fire under the rear of the fuselage the escape chute at the rear galley door soon burst and, following the first explosion, the overwing escape route also became unusable. The great majority of the survivors left the aircraft via the forward galley door escape chute.

PROBABLE CAUSE: "The accident resulted from an omission to close the fuel shut off valve when No. 2 engine caught fire following the failure of its No. 5 low pressure compressor wheel. The failure of the wheel was due to fatigue."
Sources:
ICAO Aircraft Accident Digest 18-II

[View From The Ground]

I think USAIR had an engine detach...out of Chigaco??? in the early 90s...in fact engines are designed to detach under certain circumstances, so as to avoid damage to the airframe

[411A]

HotDog referenced a particularly nasty accident, and as I was to start 707 training shortly thereafter at PanAmerican, emergency checklists were changed at PanAm, to ensure that the proper procedures were carried out by the FD crew.
The FAA saw to it that every new pilot to the type was aware, and FAA inspectors thereafter were especially vigilent about the correct drills to be carried out...and I still have the lumps to prove it:\

[Brian Abraham]

Recall a photo of DC-8 in the US lost (seperated) no 1 engine and some 20 feet of wing in turbulence. Also 727 losing one of its podded engines following rotor lockup.

[bobdbuilder]

Only yesterday I heard on Swedish radio that an SAS MD flying from Paris to Copenhagen diverted to AMS with an engine that had failed and seperated(fell off).

The only info i found was on a swedish newspaper. Would appreciate more news about this incident in english.

Thanks

[callout]

American Airlines had a seperation of a wing engine shortly after take off at O'Hare. The DC 10 wing engine seperated on initial climbout and kicked the L/E slats back causing the loss of the aircraft and many lives.

[Dave Gittins]

Wasn't the DC 10 engine separation issue connected with changing the wing engines using a fork lift, which imposed some unexpected stress or strain on the shear pins and the engine either fell off when it shouldn't ... or stayed on when it should have fallen off ??? and did some unexpected damage on the way.

DGG

[LowNSlow]

Dave Gittens the First Officer on the Kabo Air 707 that lost two engines had been an ATC Officer in the tower at LHR when the BOAC 707 lost an engine.

As you can imagine he was very aware of communicationg the difference between "lost an engine" meaning "it's conked out" and "lost an engine" meaning "it's fallen off the wing" to the chaps on the ground.

[barit1]

LowNSlow points out the ambiguity in a common aviation phrase. It's not the first time, nor the last, that "lost an engine" will be misinterpreted by the average journo. :}

OTOH - I have documented engine losses (separation) back to the mid-30s - most of them survivable.

[Swedish Steve]

Only yesterday I heard on Swedish radio that an SAS MD flying from Paris to Copenhagen diverted to AMS with an engine that had failed and seperated(fell off).
The only info i found was on a swedish newspaper. Would appreciate more news about this incident in english.
Thanks
It appears that Aftonbladet made the simple error that when the crew called that they lost an engine the journo thought that it had fallen off. This was not the case. The paper amended its story later.

[Colonel Klink]

There have been a few 727's losing the odd outboard engine due to Blue Ice buildup from leaking toilet service doors. As the aircraft descends, the ice melts causing it to flow back into the engine, which then seperates due to the torque forces involved. Got a picture of a Northwest 727 taxiing in with one engine missing, taken several years ago.