Hope you guys don't mind me posting here but I've got problems

[HelpMeplease]

I'm a student who's very new to flying.

I've had constant attitude holding problems and seem to fly with one wing down all the time but despite this, up until now I think I've absorbed everything my instructor's taught me and he thinks I'm a natural - but now I feel I'm letting him down.

My instructor decided to put me in the circuit because he thought it would force me into improving both of the above issues as it would make them far more obvious to me if I'm trying to fly a lower level rectangle rather than be at 2-3000 ft up.
He was right - bless him!! - but I know I still need to improve as I still go wonky at the slightest sign of workload increasing.

That's the background to how I got here...

My problem is my total inability to get the wheels of the 'plane on the runway when we're flying circuits.

He's normally VERY strict in all my lessons but with circuits was making me very tense at just the wrong time.
As nothing was working he's actually backed right off (cutting me a little slack) and is now a little sweetheart - but I still can't do it.

I don't know if my problem is now of my own making because I want him to be proud of me for all the effort and encouragement he's giving me - but I just can't seem to make the grade!!

I know I'm probably not the first student in the world to feel like this (nor will I be the last) but do any of you have any tips on how I can progress from here?:confused:

[Human Factor]

I've had students with similar issues to yours. As soon as their workload increases, they tense up which results in them hanging onto the yoke with an iron grip, which means they lose all finesse. This may sound daft but try to fly holding the yoke/stick in your fingertips rather than a fist. If the aeroplane is properly trimmed, it will pretty much fly straight and level all on its own with the pilot only having to make small corrections. This also means you can make much smaller, more accurate movements of the controls.

But above all, relax!!!

[Lister Noble]

I had a similar problem early on with my landings.
The instructor took control on one landing and told me I was holding the yoke as if it was a cobra about to strike me!
I used to sweat so much that I found it difficult to hold the controls,I bought a pair of thin riding gloves,about £6 a pair which allowed me to keep a more gentle grip and it all began to get better after that.
I also found that if I was distracted ,for example by map reading, my altitiude could drop a couple of hundred feet.
Sounds like you have a good instructor and I can't give any other advice as I'm only just qualified, but it does get easier,honestly!
Lister:)

[Zulu Alpha]

A good instructor will keep moving you onto different exercises before you really feel you've got the hang of the last thing. I remember when I learnt to fly that I never really felt I had practised each new thing sufficiently. Now I look back I realise that my instructor was doing the right thing.
By moving onto the next thing you start to learn a new skill but are of course still practising the ones you learnt before. If you did each one until you were perfect at it then you'd probably take 100 hours rather than 50. So rather than just bash on flying around your instructor has started pattern work.
Just think back how far you've come, I assume you can take off and fly around OK. I bet that seemed strange when you first started.
Its also quite normal to get stuck with something. My problem was steep turns. We just moved on to other things and then came back to them and they clicked into place.
Rely on your instructor, if he/she says you're a natural then they are either correct or flattering you (or both). They have seen lots of students and can set the pace as required. Its fairly normal to feel that things aren't going well but if you ask your instructor then they'll probably let you know how you are doing.
One thing that many schools do is to let you fly a lesson with another instructor who can then give you an independent assessment of progress. You could try this.
Don't forget to enjoy it though!!!

[HelpMeplease]

Thanks for the encouraging words.

I've been kicking myself 7 days a week, and have worked myself into a right state by the time I take each lesson.

I find that I don't feel "too" bad around the circuit until I've overshot the turn from base to final and then I just jam up and make a right "pigs ear" of it. Flying all over the place like a total idiot.

Any suggestions from anyone on how to "relax" down the final approach?

Being told to relax is easier said than done when the anxiety levels have gone through the roof.
Thinking about something else (less stressful) hasn't worked either, because then I'm not concentrating on what I'm doing.

[windriver]

It's not possible to undesrtand exactly what's going on based on your posts ...but whatever it is it sounds like you need a different perspective.

My advice is to ask to fly with a different instructor until you've got yourself sorted.

[P.Pilcher]

I know it costs an arm and a leg, but all you need is a bit more time. Flying is not a precise thing - you invariably end up with your aircraft going in the wrong place at the wrong time and the trick is to spot it doing something wrong and correcting it before it makes any difference! You have overcome the first hurdle - you can spot when it goes wrong - now all you need is the confidence to take the necessary corrective action before your instructor nags you! As everybody else has told you:
RELAX!
The idea is to enjoy your lesson which is costing you so much money, so concentrate on holding the column gently with two fingers and sit back. When you recognise that something has gone wrong, do something about it as soon as you can. Your instructor will have noticed that something has happened before you do, but he will be giving you time to recognise it yourself and apply the necessary correction before he says anything as he doesn't want to nag you and increase your stress level!

You'll get there!

P.P.

[kookabat]

Ahh the olod 'death grip'....


Been there, done that!!! You get the hang of it before too long. My big problem was lack of sufficient trim. Once my instructor forced me to let go of the yoke every now and then (and of course the aircraft then shot up or down, depending on which direction it was out of trim) to demonstrate 'it's not in trim, you pillock!', I figured it out.

[HelpMeplease]

I've done the "proving" I'm trimmed bit.... My instructor still asks if I'm trimmed and I remove my hands to prove it to him (and me). I don't think this is the problem.

When I first went into the circuit it was a day when I had higher stress levels than the norm - obviously my instructer didn't know this as it was caused by personal issues - and he can't read my mind.

He drove me extremely hard that day as I had my attitude and heading issues to deal with as well as the huge increase in workload levels that the circuit brings. I also wasn't supposed to be doing circuits that weekend but the wx dictated that we couldn't do stalls and slow flight.
To be honest I was within 60 seconds of bursting into tears after an hour of being driven and was more mentally exhausted than I've ever been after a lesson.

I did tell him about my problems after the lesson and he made sure I was calm and laughing before I went home, but he doesn't know how close he was to "cracking" me - I don't cry easily!!!

For 3 days after that weekend I thought about changing my instructor but kept coming back to the fact that he usually brought the best out in me by challenging & pushing me, I've always felt totally safe in his hands and on the ground he's a really nice guy.

But ever since then I've gone backwards to the point where all my attempted landings are "Go arounds".

aaaaagh!!!! - sheer frustration...

[shortstripper]

Hi,

I started gliding before power and was fortunate enough to find I was a "natural". This was great in the sense that I went solo very quickly, but had the disadvantage that once solo, I was virtually left to my own divices as everyone thought I was ok (gliding is a slightly different discipline in that once solo there little else to teach "but lots to learn" as it's all done pre-solo). I think I must have had a bad landing at some point because all of a sudden my landings went to pot. Nobody seemed to notice but I really started to beat myself up over it. The more I thought about the landing, the worse it seemed to be! In the end I went to one of the instructors (not easy as a know-it-all teenager) and fessed up that I was having problems. She took me up, but rather than bang on about landings, just ran through some upper air work excersises and chatted away. I ended up so relaxed about the whole flight that the landing just merged into what was a very enjoyable 45 minutes. I never had a problem landing again?

The above may sound like waffle ... and probably is; but the point is that if you get to hung up over one aspect of a flight that you're having problems with, you will naturally tense up and fear a repeat ... which almost always happens. It might be better to forget circuit bashing for a while, go off and do other stuff and relax about the landing, which then just becomes the conclusion of a flight that was all about something other than landing. It might just help.

SS

[foxmoth]

I notice you talk about doing things like flying through the final approach and then tensing up when you get it wrong like this. Rather than think about how to get it right, try thinking over the bits you get wrong and how to sort it if this does happen, once you realise that you can sort out the things you get wrong you will hopefully relax and either sort it out or (more probably, because you relax) not get it wrong in the first place.:ugh:

[SKYYACHT]

When I learnt to fly, many moons ago, I had a similar problem.... Only mine revolved around mastering an aerotow...... I flew with a number of different instructors, none of whom seemed to know what I was doing wrong. At last, I flew witha a wizened up old guy, somewhere between 80 and death, who flew once, with me, and succintly told me that I was overcontrolling, strangling the stick.... he suggested that I imagine that I was Princess Anne, holding a tramps di*k..... It worked immediately, and my problems vapourised...


Cheers



Mark

[HelpMeplease]

My lesson was cancelled this weekend due to Bank holiday UK weather (I'm starting to hate this country) so I'll have to wait until next weekend before trying this out.

You certainly made me laugh but I'm just wondering what my Instructor is going to say when I start pursing my lips in disgust and trying to push the yoke away from me with thumb and forefinger.

I suppose the worst that can happen is me bursting out laughing and him having to take control. This image will stay with me all week - thanks.

[Kaptain Kremen]

Hi,
Sit before the flight where you can see the runway and circuit and think about how the wind will affect the circuit pattern BEFORE you get airborne. This is especially important on the turn from base on to final. Think about the TIME you have available to start your descent due to for example a tailwind on base and therefore re assess power settings. A good base leg will normally result in a good final approach which will give you a chance of making a good landing.
Trimming, as mentioned, is very important – let the aircraft fly itself while you assist occasionally.
In the hold off, look to the horizon and try your best to keep the aircraft airborne – try to stop her landing a couple of feet above the floor. Gravity will win as you settle on the runway…but only just!
If you still have problems, wll, so do nearly every single student – you Are just getting your eye in that’s all. I normally take my student away from the circuit, say nav or some fun stuff like wing overs. This gets you out of the rut, and most times the student returns to the circuit refreshed and BINGO, it clicks!
Most of all, try not to punish your self for a bad circuit. Forget it and enjoy the challenge of the next one. This is not a race, it is fun and will come – trust your instructor, he sounds like he is right for you as a mentor.
Happy landings!
KK

[carro]

Start gliding.. you'll soon realise that you can't grip the stick to fly efficiently, rather you need a light two finger hold. You will also learn that there is a rudder on board an aircraft, and it is there to use!

Engines are for Pilots who cant keep it UP!!! MUHAHAHAHAHA;)

As for the one wing low... maybe you have wonky eyes lol jks... choose an attitude which you think is right, then cross reference your instruments and fix it if necessary. Too easy!

Carro

[modelman]

You may want to look at my post in Private flying about my nearly solo.

I found several factors can either combine to make a great flight or a crap one.

Two most important for me:Preparation and the personality of the FI ( don't be frightened to ask for another-at these prices you can afford to be choosy)
Yesterday,I spent a long time listening to other pilots on an airband radio ( get one if you haven't already).I prepared my knee board,just leaving a few blanks for QNH, info status etc,I even wrote out what I thought my readback would be.
I calculated my headings to allow for xwind and wrote them down
Result:much less to worry/think about.

Had an older FI who really set me at ease ( without actually saying much).
Pulled off some great circuits and landings and not a bead of sweat.
( I was rubbish the day before).
It will happen for you.
Modelman

[badgerpuppy]

geezer,

get everything sorted at 500' so the damn thing flies without you yanking it about, (fingertip control),

put your body on the centreline and don't use any other external reference.

Put the threshold one third of the way up the windscreen.

scan runway aspect and speed.

adjust gently and accordingly.

Do all this and you will crash the aeroplane on the threshold.

The last bit is where you need to ask your instructor how effects of controls 1 and straight and level 2 (appreciation of) allows you to not only live, but land on the centreline really rather nicely.

Chop it, kick it, dump it.

you'll get it mate, as long as you don't fly like a tennage girl with having her first experience. Put some swagger into it and smile!

Have a nice cup of tea before you go next time.

Bp.

[B Fraser]

Been there done that !

Early on in my PPL, one of Human Factor's colleagues was taking me around the circuit and on a nice easy approach said, "look at your knuckles, I have control". They were white ! I was trying way too hard and was not feeling the aircraft. On the next t&g, I flew with my fingertips and suddenly felt what the aircraft was doing. I think SKYYACHT puts it rather well.

I flew on Saturday and did bad weather circuits at 500' in the p*ssing drizzle at cloudbase and had a great time. Crap viz really does make the runway appear further away however after one lousy circuit, I think I improved (or was I just less bad ?). I just love it when the stall warner begins to chirp as the wheels touch. I asked my instructor how I was doing and he said "I'm just sitting here admiring the view, I would send you solo but I'm not walking back from the hold in this crap".

I did an hour solo on Sunday and hated it. I have no idea why, you just get the odd off-day. Steep turns were a doddle but I couldn't do a PFL to save myself. It happens but next time will probably be different. Stick in there !

[Mad Girl]

I also have very similar problems to Helpmeplease so have read this thread with interest and tried to absorb the advice.

Went up yesterday for circuits and "just" managed 2 landings, with difficulty, and was absolutely knackered at the end of 50 minutes.

As I'd been having problems getting the wheels on the runway, my instructor was ecstatic on the first one, but I was far too tense to enjoy it too as the moment my mind goes somewhere else, so does the 'plane.... I started to go to pot after that.

Two's better than none (trying to be positive!!).

He says he can't believe how easily I'm "giving up" the attempt.

I wasn't happy with one approach and glanced at him to say "go around?" - we were 50 ft up at the time and he had to save us - he told me I owed him one - Just one???

(To put this in perspective, I do aero's with the same FI, and if he pushes me I usually do what he wants when he wants it, whether it be Flat or Aero's - hence his disbelief with the "giving up" in landings.)

Apparently I can now fly the approach (most of the time) keeping the stationary point where I want it, but when we get to about 200 ft - It's gone - I totally destabilise everything I've done.

I'm actually afraid of heights (and I fly!!!), and seeing the ground that close, rushing up at me is freaking me out.

He's away next week so I'm going up with a different instructor (got to keep up the practice). Luckily it's someone I've been chatting with for a while, so I should be relaxed!!, and I'm hoping she can sort out my "Phobia" so that he's a very "Happy chappy" when I next go up with him.

I really want to sort this out because I feel that I'm letting him down - He always gets more excited when I do something right than I do!!!

What is it about you guys that you can create this huge undying devotion to you from your students??:confused:

I love my instructor to bits but feel crap at my inability to do this one thing right for him.:sad:

[MyData]

MadGirl

You've only got a (relatively) few hours under your belt. Don't be so hard on yourself. It will eventually all fall into place and become much, much easier. As everyone here as stated - relax. Much easier said than done when the ground is rushing up to meet you, but just take your time. Your instructor is there to take over if things go awry so just do it in your own time and go with the flow. Relax and have confidence.

[HelpMeplease]

Sorry Guys - I would have posted sooner but I'm still not very happy.

I still can't get the plane to land despite the advice given here. I'd hoped the image of "Princess Ann and the tramps d*ck" would have relieved some of the stress and helped me calm down a bit.

I seem to be getting worse and there are absolutely no signs of improvement.

Back to the drawing board but thanks for all your support.

[gib]

ok im only just starting my ppl and on my first lesson my instructor noted that i had a tendency ti drop the right wing, it was only after a few days driving my claped out old car that i noticed it pulled to the left so in correcting it to keep out of the shrubbery i had to apply a slight right hand down pull on the wheel and was unconciosly doing the same on the little 152s yolk:sad: . if you do drive try to see if if its the same thing


good luck with the ppl
:ok:

[Sensible]

I write not as a flying instructor but somebody who found landings impossible! Can I suggest a few hours sitting close to the runway threshold, analyse what others do. You will see the experienced pilots bring the craft in smoothly having sorted out all of the attitude, altitude and wind drift issues whilst on long final. Are you properly doing a pre flight which includes working out which direction you are going to be drifting during the circuit so that you can turn base and final at the appropriate time?

Essentially, you need to get your speed, trim and altitude all sorted out on downwind and base and then on turn to final. On short final, you should only be considering wind drift and just checking altitude and airspeed. All your flaps and trim should be sorted. You should be holding the yoke/stick with only thumb and forefinger and releasing all grip should have little/no effect on the aircraft. Certainly, if you have not trimmed or have these other issues sorted, you will be on "overload" and at best at risk of "pilot induced turbulence". Everybody that I know has an "arrival" sometimes - even commercial pilots!

Remember, if you are struggling getting the airspeeeed, attitude or altitude under control on short final, you will just make a pigs ear of the landing. Its a bit like getting an essay done, if all of the preparation and work is done, the final submission is more likely to be a relaxed and dignified affair.

Nobody did worse landings than me (and still do "arrivals" at times). If all else fails, try gliding, that will undoubtedly sort out your landing issues in a very short time and won't bankrupt you in the process.

Quote "I seem to be getting worse and there are absolutely no signs of improvement"

Three reasons for that, stress, stress and stress! you have to get that sorted first or you are just wasting your money! try talking to pilots at your club, ask their input, ask if they will care to demonstrate their perfect landings - many pilots actually welcome somebody flying with them - it can be much more interesting flying with somebody else, it can get lonely on your own! Good luck!

[Mad Girl]

HMP - I've had similar issues to you so can sympathise as to how you feel but there is hope!!!

By fluke I went up with a different instructor (mine was away for the day) and decided to try the riding glove approach suggested by Lister Noble. Mine were cotton with rubbery "pimple" grips on the palm and fingers (£2.50 on the net). It stopped the sweaty hands being an issue and gave me confidence that I could still have a decent grip on the yoke without having to strangle it.

New instructor (who I know and like) had a slightly different style to my usual so I was a bit more chilled. I'd already told her that I was getting so pi**ed off with not being able to get the 'plane down that I was counting on her to help me out. So maybe my attitude was different too!! :confused:

Anyway... Despite 50 - 60 degree 15 kt crosswinds (I was gutted when I saw the windsock when arriving at the airfield:( ), I managed to get the wheels on the runway all but one time and that one was MY decision to go-around because it didn't feel right.

None of them bounced, one "minor" balloon when pulling a bit too hard at roundout - but controlled. I surprised myself!!! :ok:

I'm now a) extremely relieved and b) slightly more confident that I can do it (will hopefully still feel like this when I next go up with my usual instructor - I wish he'd been there, as he's done all the work to get me this far ;) )!!

Smile on my face everytime I re-live it.:D :D :D

Deep breaths girl - keep at it!! :ok:

[benhurr]

Reading through some of the posts from the people with problems reminds me of the time, a long, long time ago, when I was doing my PPL. I couldn't land consistently for lesson after lesson and felt I was letting my instructor down.

The problem was solved by him saying "Relax and stop beating yourself up - That's my job and I get paid for it."

When I was instructing, I had students who tended to be overly self-critical and I used the same line with them.

Everyone hits a brick wall in their training at some stage no matter how "natural" they are. Look on the bright side, if you struggle with landing you get to practice more circuits which will improve your attitude keeping when you start doing navigation, improve your RT and accustom you to more unusual situations involving other traffic etc.

Reading and responding to this thread has made me realise just how much I miss instructing - Anyone want an instructor who flies jets on his days off?

[richie-rich]

i always had a problem with my radio calls. flying is not the issue, but went out flying with a senior instructor few months back, and the way he "MADE" the flight easy by cracking few jokes, pretending like a student to who faults cant be ignored, made it very simple at the end.

him not putting me upto a level of nervousness where i would start doing every calls i make turn into dry jokes, but made me realize that i CAN do it. was just a way to easen me up and giving me useful information on talking to ATC of an international airport, just reading out a story.

guess what? confidence went up 100% up and read back EVERY radio calls with the tower with confidence and eloquence!

i was happy to master the fine art of radio telephony! but still way to go....:)

richie

[Kolibear]

My 2ps-worth. Make sure that the seat is always in the same position for each lesson. If the seat is right up one day & right down the following lesson, your view of the runway over the cowling will be different each time you fly. One day you'll think you are high, the next, you'll think you are low. Find a comfortable seat position & stick with it. If you want to aim for consistency, you have to eliminate all the variables, seat position is a variable.

Even now, my first cockpit check is 'seat three notches back and locked'

[raviolis]

If it can help...

roundabout my 11th hour of training I was practicing circuits and feeling I was getting nowhere... was getting it all wrong and with no signs of improvement. On that particular lesson we went up, did 2 awful circuits (a go aro und and a mess-up) and asked my instructor to go back down as I thought I was wasting my time and money, with serious doubts I would actually come back and do it again !

3 lessons later I went solo.

All of a sudden it all falls into place and it just happens naturally.
I made the mistake of getting too worried about it and it only made it worse, so I have probably wasted some money in lessons where I wasn't taking anything in. But it's all part of the learning process !

As long as you enjoy it, 'cause it costs quite a bit ! :)

[Mad Girl]

I'm not looking for sympathy, or a shoulder to cry on, but just some sensible flying instructor advice - What would you prefer your student to do in this situation??

I love my flying, it's become almost an addiction, and I'm definitely not happy if I have to miss even one weekend in the air.

I've had major (to me...) problems with landing and one week ago I managed to start doing it after at least 4 weekends of just not getting it. This weekend I had to be away so missed out.

I know that missing lessons leads to a lack in consistancy and it ends up costing more in the long run as you need to go back to recap before you can start moving forward again. The more you miss - the longer it takes to get back to where you were.

I have ABSOLUTELY no wish to go back to where I was a fortnight ago.

Here's the problem... My father has been ill for a very long time and unfortunately he died this morning. I'm actually doing quite well at the moment so I don't need the sympathy vote (I'm relieved that he's not suffering anymore) - I do appreciate that how I feel now may change later in the week (If it does - I WILL take the first option below as I'm not totally stupid)!!!

I also know that I can be totally single minded in concentration which is what it takes me to land.


Dilemma - As my instructor is NOT a mind reader.

- Do I declare myself unfit to fly and just cancel my lessons for the next few weeks, running the risk of putting myself back to square one and more weeks of frustration which I would find very hard to take - my personal feeling is that this is too extreme.

- Do I talk to my instructor just so that he doesn't do anything stupid like sending me solo if I can keep landing the 'plane - this is where my gut instinct is leading me.

- Do I just keep my mouth shut and put myself where I want to be - In the air... - Stupid???

If I was your student (and had been for 6 months) - what would you want me to do???

[rsr3]

I'd say number two, flying could be just the distraction you need. Sorry to hear of your loss though.

[nzmarty]

i'm not an instructor, but i find, if i am having difficulty with something, that if i talk my way through, just as the instructor talks you through, then it will come a lot easier. don't just think it - say it out loud to yourself. if you can, sit rear seat on a MAUW check, watch the pilot, listen to the instructor, and talk your own self through what's happening.

i still talk out loud to myself before doing aeros, and on downwind checks. if i don't, i invaraibly forget something.

[mstram]

MadGirl and HelpMePlease.

When I did my ppl a couple of years ago, it took me "forever" to learn to land.

Some ideas that helped me a great deal:

1) Go over to a table or desk in your immediate surroundings, while standing next to it look down on the surface. Now slowly crouch down as your eye height above the top diminishes, notice how the table-top appears to "flatten out". That is the same picture you'll get of the runway as your height decreases. When it's almost perfectly flat, that will be your cue to start flaring the aircraft.

2) When taking off in a typical light plane, the cowling is usually approximately on the horizon. Or .. next time you fly and you're climbing out after takeoff (at ~ Vy), notice where the cowling/horizon relationship is. *That* is the same attitude you want when you start to flare the plane in the landing. Put the cowling on the "end of the runway" and hold it there.

3) When you are landing / flaring, remember to *keep flying the plane*, using all the controls to just keep flying down the centre line of the runway. Pay attention to the sink rate and steadily increase the backpressure as the airspeed diminishes / sink rate increases. Ideally the stall horn will start to beep just as the tires "chirp" against the runway.

4) You might ask your instructor about practicing just flying along the ruwnway about 10' or lower, so that you get the sight picture in your mind. If you combine that with just gradually reducing the throttle, you'll get the idea of a landing being that the plane just slowly stops flying, in coordination with gradually reducing altitude (during the last 2-3 feet above the runway).

- When you do touchdown, remember to keep control of the plane, with both the rudder/nose steering and to increase your cross-wind aeileron inputs as the groundspeed reduces.

As far as maintaining currency, while it's important to physically fly at least once in a while, I think it's just as important, if not more so, to have a very clear idea in your mind of what's involved in any aspect of flying .. or any other activity for that matter.

Experiments have been done in other fields, where the participants were split into groups, one group practicing the physical activitiy, while the other group simply practiced "mentally" rehearsing the activity. The "mental" practicers did almost as well as the "physical" practicers.

Also, (yet another) controversial area is the opinion of pilots on computer-desktop flight simulators. Personally I think they are great and while *physically* they are certainly not the same as a real plane, I think that for keeping your *mental* skills sharp they are great.

Mike

[inthesoup]

Good advise MSTRAM,

Been teaching people for a while now, and I definitely helpful with flying level with the runway at 10'.

Another technique i use is: When you fly straight and level see where the horizon is in the windscreen, this is where you want to set your aiming point on approach to the runway. When you get down to your round out height (doing the 10' flybys will fix this) change the attitude to the straight and level, but use the end of the runway as the horizon. When you start feeling the aircraft to sink, stop it by applying a slight amount of back pressure to a point where the nose cowling just comes up to the end of the runway. AND WAIT!!!!

Another trick I use with students doing the death grip is by making them hold a pencil between there fingers whilst flying the aircraft. If they squeeze the control column too tight then they'll either break the pencil or it will hurt like hell and then they'll relax the grip and still be able to control the a/c rather easily.

MAD GIRL, sometimes a break can do wonders, give your mind a break, you won't forget how to fly an aircraft overnight. The rest might fall into place. (Please i'm not discouraging you, I think it's great seeing people do what they have always dreamed of doing. I know i've done it and living it)

Helpmeplease:

Patience Patience Patience Patience, Persistance and Practice!!!! It will pay off

Happy Landings :ok: :ok: :eek: :eek: :D :D :D

[Flying_Scotsman]

MAD GIRL Very sorry to hear of your loss. You are now in a situation you have, probably, never been in before. Only you know how you can approach flying training in these circumstances. However, you do need to take your instructor aside and tell him what's up. Remember now and in the future, it's his aircraft when he's teaching you and he needs to kn ow how all the crew are going to perform (CRM).

As another correspondant mentioned, flying may be what you need to take your mind off your loss. I am lucky in that I have always been able to leave my 'admin' problems on the ground. This doesn't work for everyone; you will find out as your flying progresses. This may bethe time to find out as it is a dual sortie. Keep us all informed :) !

[Mad Girl]

Thanks for the kind words on my Dads death.

My Instructor reads this forum so I thought he'd get the message, but I sent him an e-mail anyway to be sure that he was in the picture in case he missed it.

As I'm a totally sad muppet, I normally start thinking about my Saturday lesson from Wednesday onwards - suddenly taking a lot of interest in weather forecasts, thinking about what we did last time, what did I do wrong or do right etc etc etc. - My "other half" says he always loses me towards the end of the week as he sees me become more focussed on what I want to do.
I also went back to work on Thursday so that my brain would be out of cotton wool.

All of which took my mind off my personal situation for a short while - doesn't make it go away - but it helps.

Lesson went fine - instructor was a gem - and originally was going to keep the lesson to 40 minutes. I wasn't getting tired and I can't have been doing that bad so we stayed up longer. (He was taking short cuts around the circuit to set me back up on the approach quicker.)

We did lots of final legs, low level flyby's and I actually didn't put it pointy end first in the runway, even managed a couple of touch and go's without it going "totally" to pot.

It felt like a good lesson and, as he said, there was a start of a smile on my face.

I just felt the need to say - "Thanks Dave - it is appreciated" - lets just play it by ear for the next few weeks and I'm sure you'll get your "lippy" student back in due course (whether you prefer the quieter one or not!!!).

[Mad Girl]

Another week gone by and another lesson.

Managed lots of touch and go's and did my first engine failure after takeoff. Even got a pat on the shoulder and a big grin when the first one flared at the right height.

All touch downs on the main wheels (poor old nose wheel had a rest this week) - was even getting the stall warner to go off.

Clicking at last !!! (shame my circuits went to pot. Don't know what shape they were but they certainly weren't rectangular.........Oh well!! can't have everything - YET!!!)

Next question on the agenda...

At what point is said instructor likely to get out of the 'plane???

He's always said to me that I'll be virtually trying to throw him out before I go solo.... What he doesn't know is that 6 month's ago someone told me that one day he'll just get out and leave me to it whether I like it or not!!! (He's a nice guy at the moment, so is he going to go Jekyll & Hyde on me??)

Maybe now he'll understand why I've always joked about handcuffing him to the 'plane (no kinky comments please!!).

Anyone prepared to give me a heads up so that I can get the handcuffs ready:E ????

[benhurr]

The Instructor will get out of the aircraft when he knows you are ready. Trust your instructor.

[funfly]

To give you some heart....
My wife (not a young lady but one who loves flying) just couldn't get the last bit of landing and did over 80 hours before she finally went solo!
However during this time she passed all her exams and her hours and hours of practice made her a superb flyer and a good navigator.

[MadamBreakneck]

I know technique that can work well in this situation. It's a bit New Age sort of thing, but it's helped me and also a couple of my students - in one case spectacularly so.:D
The technique is called EFT and is well described here
http://www.emofree.com/newcomer.htm
Have a go, and enjoy your flying.
:ok:
Best wishes

[cessna l plate]

Sorry to hear of your loss. I lost my Grandad last year, and although I wasn't flying a lot at the time, I felt it better to stay away until I had got my head round it.

There is tons of good advice here, but my take on it is this...
The instructor is not looking for the perfect pilot (if that exists). Before he sends you solo what he wants to see is good, sound decision making. So if it's going to rats at 100ft and you go-around then don't beat yourself up about a "failed" landing, it isn't failed, the plane is still in the air, not broken and nethier are you!! The same applies at the skills test, you can screw it up (to a point) and still pass, if you make the right decisions on a safety basis when you realise that you've screwed up. Before this gets poo-poo'ed, how many examiners tell a student in a de-brief that they've now got a "licence to learn"???

And remember this, no 2 landings are ever the same. Most of flying a plane can be taught "by numbers", but the landing is a black art that only comes with experience. Some people need more experience than others, that's all. Look at it this way, you are capable of flying a plane, something that millions of people in this country cannot do, or likely ever will.

[theresalwaysone]

With respect I must be missing something here, what actually is the problem? you say you cant get the aircraft down but that analaysis suggests you are not understanding the mechanics of landing. All aircraft come down, your job as PIC is to control that descent.

A landing is just a low feet per minute descent with a final attitude change which arrests the descent and puts the aircraft in the landing attitude (usually), its not as complicated as some would have you believe on here. If you are car drivers and can drive through a gap caused by parked offside and nearside cars you also possess the judgement to find round out height. Eg the abilty to miss the nearside parked car when sitting on the offside of your car requires the same type of judgement to judge where the mainwheels are in relation to the runway during the flare.

The abilty to learn to fly comes from the inherent skills that we all possess all beit in different degrees. You can be taught the actions of landing by just watching an instructor, believe me--ive been to an industrial tribunal with an instructor who never ever gave any verbal instruction on landing or take off but everyone of his students could land an aircraft well but with no airmanship.

The fact that you are on this forum suggests that you are looking for alternative instruction not available from your instructor, but why not thats what you are paying the school/club for.

Unfortunately because an instructor is a nice guy or a sweetie dosnt make him a good landing instructor. If you havnt soloed by 10-15 hours ( and I cannot see any evidence of how many hours you have done so far) you want to be talking to the CFI and finding out exactly what the problem is because at around £100 per hour you need the best service and yes flying training is a service industry, that you can get. You may find that the CFI may change you to the most senior instructor or the instructor who gets the best landing results, it could even be the CFI. Some students make rapid progress with landings when they change instructor and a new instructor may give new advice--just look at the different advice on here some advice suits some students better than others!

In my experinece as an ex CFI sometimes its the instructor we needed to look at not just the student!

the first thing i would ask you is to explain yourself is what you are trying to achieve with the landing(you would be suprised at how many students dont actually know what they are trying to achievh with a landing)

and then the sequence of events and inputs you make from say 300 feet to the ground and why you are making those inputs.

what visual cues you are using and why

By giving these answers we can see what the problem is


I noticed two comments already in previous posts

Frightened of heights--so am i and i have 15,000 hours in a/c from jet airliners to single seaters!
Took along time to solo--so did i
some of my landings are occasionaly **** too
THE RUNWAY SUDDENLY GETS BIGGER woops cap loks on again!
Its called the BLOOM, use it as a cue to round out (or arrest descent and change attitude if you like.)


PS sorry to hear about your father
PPS In my experience women took longer to solo but make better pilots

hope this helps
next time i will tell you how i remedied students with landing problems