Ari-Ben Aviator

[SEAGULL09]

Having just got my CPL/IR and MCC I am looking to build my multi-time. Ari Ben in Ft Pierce, Florida are doing a 100 hours, actual IFR package in a Duchess for approx $6000. Has anyone been there or been down this route??? Any information would be gratefully recieved.... Cheers

[312928]

I'm looking at doing that package as well. It justs look too good to be true to me.
If my maths is any good it works out at less than £50 per hour for an IFR twin.
What's the catch?
I would also like to hear from anyone with any experience of this deal.

[SkyCruiser]

I have been there.
They like you to fly at the end of the day and into the night.
Beware, you can only log half the time you fly for the purpose of a UK licence.
You need a car.
Accom is quite a distance away.
They told me what I wanted to hear, know what I mean.
But all in all I had a good time and some excellent flying. :confused: :eek:

[Manflex55]

What's the catch... well make sure the lease is WET, ie U don't have to pay for the fuel in addition to the $50/h. Actually I don't know any US operator who could afford to wet-lease a twin @ $50/h without losing money. What's the state of this twin ? There are lots of "death traps" flying in FL, beware & make sure U see the tech & maintenance logs !

MF

[Constable Clipcock]

I'd be awfully leery, gentlemen! This establishment used to be situated in the Dallas, TX area, where the flying also is good and the competition slightly scarcer than FL.

Unless the owners moved simply because they liked Florida strictly for personal reasons, such a distant change-of-venue for a flight school or FBO does not generally bode well. The "package" price is, as well, much too low to be credible for anything not in dire need of an exorcist.

[GoneWest]

Seagull,

I've never FLOWN from Ari Ben - but I've spent many times working with Mike Cohen (the owner).

The aeroplanes looked great when I inspected them in the hangar - they had six Duchess..all identical...every flight panel was exactly the same (that's what identical means, right?).

Mike was quite open about his deal. Whatever price you are quoted for the package is the price you would be charged.

You would be teamed up with another pilot - you would both have to be trained and tested to fly Duchess and have full instrument rating BEFORE starting this deal.

The two of you would rent the aircraft - pay your $6000 each - and go flying. One of you would be the pilot and fly the plane - the other would look out of the window as a safety pilot (maybe work the radio).

Under FAA rules (some say [I don't know]) you can BOTH log the time as P1.

Your hundred hours of twin time may be 50 hours of flying and 50 hours of looking for traffic and talking on the radio.

If you care, the CAA are well aware of this operation (numerous schools offer it - I'm not attacking Ari Ben here). I had a discussion with the CAA over a beer (or three) in a hotel in Fort Pierce, Florida just two weeks ago - and this scheme was the topic of one of our discussions.....mainly because the new JAA school E.F.T. uses the offices and aircraft of Ari Ben to do its courses.

I'd also note that as winter approaches - nobody can guarantee you actual IFR. This is Florida.

I also quizzed Mike on the rules for taking the aircraft away from base on a long cross country flight - he did not like the idea. He wanted the aircraft to be back at Fort Pierce at the end of every day...partly because he couldn't afford to give you 100% access to the aircraft (as he could fly it all day and make money with it) and partly because it wasn't worth the risk of you suffering a technical problem somewhere a long way away from his mechanics.

The deal seemed genuine - the aircraft looked VERY good - the deal is not acceptable to the UK CAA.

Decide for yourself what you want the hours for. Remember the great saying - "If it sounds too good to be true..."

[slim_slag]

Seagull


are doing a 100 hours, actual IFR package in a Duchess for approx $6000.


GoneWest


Under FAA rules (some say [I don't know]) you can BOTH log the time as P1.

Your hundred hours of twin time may be 50 hours of flying and 50 hours of looking for traffic and talking on the radio.



Just to clarify some things in this thread, maybe just for my own benefit.

I am assuming in this case that you are teamed up with another pilot who is also multi rated. The phrase 'actual IFR' does not make sense. IFR are the rules you fly under as opposed to VFR. You can be flying IFR and be in IMC or VMC. By actual IFR, do you mean IFR in IMC?

A duchess is a "single pilot machine", no second in command required.

FAA has the concept of Pilot in Command, close to P1 but not identical. When I refer to PIC I am assuming FARs apply.

Now.

If you are in VMC and one pilot is under the hood and sole manipulator of the controls, and it is agreed the other pilot is legally PIC (ie responsible for the safe conduct of the flight) BOTH pilots can log PIC. If the pilot flying is also responsible for the flight, the other safety pilot cannot log PIC, just SIC. This comes from the fact that in VMC (even on an IFR flight plan) you are responsible for separation from VFR traffic in the same airspace. As the guy under the hood cannot possibly separate, then the second pilot becomes required crew, the safety pilot if you will.

Now if you are in IMC ("actual"), only one of the pilots can log PIC. That will be the pilot manipulating the controls. As you are in IMC, ATC becomes responsible for separation (from other IFR traffic) and there is no safety pilot required - even if he handles the radios.

So if you are looking to build hours by both logging PIC, you want to avoid IMC (or actual IFR). Of course, the logbook system is an honour system, but I certainly would not abuse this.

As for $120 per hour for a duchess, this sounds cheap. Are they insured? There are outfits out there who put a CFI in the back seat so there are actually three people logging PIC!

Legal PIC (right seat, safety pilot)
Sole Manipulator of Controls under hood (left seat)
Instructor in the back, saying turn left 120 :)

That puts it up to $180 per hour, which is quite doable and should give the operator a profit.

Naturally this is an 'FAA centric' opinion, from my understanding of CAA logging, it would be quite different. Clear as mud?

[ 07 October 2001: Message edited by: slim_slag ]

[Constable Clipcock]

Sim_Slag:

Now that you've explained things that way, then yes, I agree the deal as advertised does appear reasonable.

For those of us living under FARs, it actually looks like an excellent deal, provided one has $6000 to part with all at one go. However.... You guys from abroad who are trying to comply with a different set of rules back home would end up getting shorted far more time than it's worth.

[SEAGULL09]

Thankyou all for your time with this matter...definitely opened my eyes to a few things

[Britmil]

The other way to do it ( I think) is for both pilots to be MEIs with one "instructing" the other and both logging PIC.

[Hornetboy]

Now I gotta admit my info is entirely hearsay and a bit crusty. But I heard some major bad things about Ari Ben on another message board for flight schools. I'm not talking just things like slackness of training. I actually hear they took the money of some of the students and just didn't deliver. I don't know how on Earth anyone could get away with that, but someone who posted was in the midst of sueing the school. I also heard some pretty wacked out story about an instructor putting a gun to a students' head....think it was some money affair.

There were plenty of people willing to speak openly against Ari Ben Aviator, but I can't vouch for any one of them so obviously take this with a pinch of salt. Still, all I can say is....if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

[Strangely Brown]

I have used Air Desert Pacific in La Verne, California. They will rent you a Seneca for a 100 Hour Block at $110.99 wet per hour. Not only is this cheaper than the above mentioned deal, you can take the aircraft away for as long as you like as long as you put at least 4 hours per day on the hobbs. Aircraft are OK and its a fantastic location.

[DesiPilot]

You can do time building in a twin and both of you log the time under the FAA system as long as one of you is under the hood. Under the FAA system, both of you can log the time, one logs the time under simulated instruments and the other pilot logs it as safety pilot.
As far as I know two pilots cannot log the flight time at the same time under CAA/JAA syste unless the plane is certified for Multi Crew.
I hope this helps. Although it is completely legal in one country, it could back fire in the other, so be cautious.

[Jannik]

Hello

I´m considering enrolling AriBen Aviator in Florida this summer, since they offer cheap FAA training and a job a an instructor afterwards. Does enyone have anything to say about this school?

http://www.aribenaviator.com/

regards

Jannik

[BIG DICK]

Jannik,

Don't know anything about that school, however the link below to Pan am flight academy should be useful. I had a look around their school and facilities last year and they are very impressive. If you are considdering doing all of you licences at the same time and then instructing the this place is reccomended.

http://www.panamacademy.com/

However if you're just after a bit of cheap flying or just doing you're PPL the try the old favourate at Britannia, in Winterhaven, Fl. Always an adventure there!!

http://www.britanniaflightcentre.com/

Hope this is of help.

BD

[shon7]

Jannik - I'd look at the following message boards before deciding on Pan Am

flightinfo.com
jetcareers.com
ilsapproach.com
ufly.com

I had a few friends that went to Pan Am and believe me they had more than their decent share of trouble. I would recommend against it.

[Tailfeathers]

I've had experience with Airi Ben Aviator and it was all great. Good FAA instructors, great equipment and very organized program. The chief Pilot is French and extremely good. Overall a very good option to the expensive Flight Safety/Pan Am programs. They are very well thought of throughout the FL area and the FSDA at Orlando says only good things about them.

[DesiPilot]

Jannik,

I do not know much about Ari Ben Aviator. However, we've had many instructor come and work for us from North American Institute of Aviation. In the past three years we have hired many instructors and all of them were very good instructors. I spoke to all of them and every single instructor was happy with the school too. If you like you can check out their website at www.naiasc.com

If you are willing to wait I suggest going to Naples Air Center. They are also part 141 school and I heard that they are waiting for their J-1 Visa approval.

Good luck with your flying :)

Cheers,
Jatin

[Pinky95]

Hey Jannik,

i agree with Big Dick on panamacademy i've been there training although not in a FAA program, but with the KLM flight academy JAA program. They may have done a little bit more for us, but the facilities are very good over there so the FAA programs should be good as well. The planes are nice, most of them less then 3 years old!
Just the fact that Fort Pierce is not the place to be, if you want to have some fun could be a disadvantage but that may help you actually study :)

['I' in the sky]

Did the multi engine add on to my commercial and instrument rating there about 3 years ago and had no problems. Accounting was all straight forward and uncomplicated. Didn't have as many aircraft on line as they'd said but it didn't turn out to be problem. Some of the aircraft looked a bit tired but I don't think I ever lost a flight.

[Jannik]

Hello all

Thank you for your replys. Pinky95 you wrote

i agree with Big Dick on panamacademy i've been there training although not in a FAA program, but with the KLM flight academy JAA program

I cannot find any JAA training on their website. Do you have a link?`

Jannik

[Facts Not Fiction Pls]

PanAm does not do the JAA program. Their examiners left and set up EFT on the same aerodrome.

[Tailfeathers]

EFT is affiliated with Ari Ben Aviators utilizing the same aircraft and offices.

[Grafter]

I Recently contacted panamacademy and here is the reply i recieved:

Thank you for your interest in JAR training programmes
at Pan Am. As of this time, we have discontinued all
JAR training programmes. At present, we do not offer
any JAR, CAA or JAA approved courses. Should we decide
to move forward with a new programme for the JAR market,
you can be certain that we will publish the details on
our website and notify you via e-mail as soon as they
become available

[Gin Slinger]

Anyone familiar with this outfit?

They offer a spectacular deal for FAA IR/200 multi hours/commercial/all instructor ratings, plus a J-1 instucting opportunity.

Looks too good to be true. Is it?

PS - I am aware that under JAA, P2 hours can't be logged in the same manner as the FAA for single pilot aeroplanes - just in case anyone was going to point that out.

[ImNot]

Have you searched Google for them. I only say this because when I did around 6 months ago all I got was a bunch of NTSB reports. I believe that they were based in Texas originaly and were rumoured to have moved to Florida for reasons I can not confirm so won't mention here. With that in mind I choose not to go there as their hour building package was not as competative as it first seemed (for UK pilots for the reasons you mentioned).
Having said that I know two satisfied customers who had nothing but praise for them, their only slightly negative comments were that hour building pilots took second place to their regular students and that they generaly had to do their flying at night.
They operate (or used to not that long ago at least) Dutcheses and these guys reported that they were picked them up from Orlando airport and even had very cheap accomadation arranged for them.

[noatak]

Hi,

I visited Ari Ben Aviator in 1995 and had a look at their operations. At that time they were based in Addison ("small" class D airfield in the northern part of Dallas TX). During my visit I had also a meeting with their chief instructor and their manager ( the one who pointed out in all their pubs that he was a FAA gold seal instructor ;-))

Their operations looked very overcrowded. All their students met in their pilot lounge, gathered around an old pc to find out when they have to fly the day.
All in all I have had not such a good impression. They were up for your money (like all others too). I talked to some of their students and instructors and I had not a good feeling about this company.

['I' in the sky]

I did the multi engine add-on to my Commercial/instrument at the end of 1999 after they had moved to Ft Pierce and didn't have any problems.

Accounting was straight forward, just stay in credit and no problems getting any balance back at the end.

As for hours builders taking second place and having to mostly fly at night, I have heard similar but can't remember who from. I don't think it was anyone who actually flew there.

[Bramsen]

Hello everyone,

I just visited Ari Ben Aviator and European Flight Training 13 days ago. Both schools are locatated in Ft. Pirece, Florida, and in the same building.

The Prices at these schools are very cheap. Right now you can buy 100ME time for just 5500$ which i think is cheap. A student I spoke to at Ari Ben did confirm to me that most hourbuilders get to fly in the night, because they were extremely busy right now.

the schools are cheap but their planes and facilities are very worn down. I guess thats why the training is cheap.

Best of wishes to you all......

[gorky]

the 100 hours of multi engine at 5500 bucks by ariben are with 2 pilots, usually with a cfi/Mei on the right seat who log MEI pic .
a FAA examiner and a cpl student pilot crashed and the examiner died in a Be76 Duchess and they moved to Stuart in 1998.that s the true story.the said the town wanted their building back!
so guys, your hours are not recognized by your CAA but by the FAA only.
Sorry!too good to be true!:rolleyes:

[UpstairsDriver]

I knew Mr. Bernier who was killed in that tragic accident. From what I know they were planning on moving before this happened.

Gorky, what makes you say this was the reason for the move to FL? Your profile says you are a chief pilot AND that you are current on FS2002!?

I have no idea what the school is like today, but it used to be a very good one. Are Mike & TJ still there?

[Gin Slinger]

Okay, can anyone offer personal recommendations for FAA flight schools?

I have a few ideas of my own, but I want to here others.

[Facts Not Fiction Pls]

Gin Slinger

If you are looking for structure then go to a FAA part 141 school.

If you are looking for a club, more laid back feeling then train under part 61.

All 141 school can train under 61. Part 61 basically means that there is an instructor there that will complete the PPL requirements, but in his order preference.

If you want a list of US 141 schools then go the the FAA web site where they are all listed.

In addition, should you be looking for classroom style you are more likely to find this at a 141 school. Part 61 tends to be one on one.

Good luck

[Gin Slinger]

Facts: thanks - it seems FAR 61 tends to be cheaper, even at a 141 school.

Anyone got any recommendations?

I've been pointed towards Phoenix East Aviation at Daytona Beach FL - any second opinions?

[Lewy Boy]

Anyone got any info on ariben aviator flight school in Ft. Pierce FL. Looked at doing the full pro package on a J1 visa there. Their website is www.aribenaviator.com . Any info good and bad appreciated. Cheers!!
LB

[Gin Slinger]

try using the search facility.

[Lewy Boy]

Anyone have any reports on this flight school @ Ft Pirce, FL. Everything looks quite good and impressed on the multi-engine hours side of things.

:ok:

[learr]

Hi man,
I heard a lot of sad stories about this flight school, 2 friends of mine flew there from 98 to 99 and they had to leave before the end of the program, promises done were pretty fare fom the reality ... so becarefull man my advice would be; think about it twice!!

Learr, take care buddy.

[Flying surfer]

Stay well clear of these people both TJ and Mike (the owners) will tell you whatever they think you want to hear to get you to part with your money. check out the forum on www.ilsapproach.com
there are loads of threads about this school.

good luck

[My names Turkish]

I agree with the above. Anything I've ever heard is bad reports.

I also phoned them up to ask how it was possible to offer 100hrs multi for five or six grand(Or similar can't remember exact figures). The person on the phone was a little evasive but after much arm twisting and very pointed questions I finally found out that the reason they can offer such cheap multi time is by putting 2 students in the one plane. One flies under the hood and the other is safety pilot. Under FAA rules both can log PIC time. However this kind of time building is not valued highly by employers. It is a complete and utter waste of money for JAR students (as wot I is) because safety pliots cannot log time under JAR rules.

[learr]

Hey Flying surfer,
seems that you know a little beat about them :-) ...Tj and Mike lol so have you been in Addison (Tx) or Fort pierce (Fl) i'm asking you that cause we may have some friends in commun.

See you man!

[learr]

hi Dryermaker,
don't take it personnal man, if you look carefully i said durind 98 throught 99 not 3k and at this time the beautiful environment you've just discribed was a lot different... believe me!!! but anyway if you got what for you paid good for you, i'm hoping that more than 50% of Ari Ben Aviator's students are agree with you ... and after all things may be changed so ... good luck to all of you guys.

PS Does Pierre Lavial still there???

[TKPILOT]

Hi...
Just wanted to hear from anyone who might have som news on ariben aviator...
There have in the past years been both good and bad stories, but just wanted to hear from anyone....
Are thinking of doing their 200 hr. program and its alot of money SO!!!! feel fre to write me...
Thanks
Thomas

[Flying surfer]

Avoid them like the plague. They will promise whatever they think you want to hear to get you to come over and they know that once you have flown from Europe you are not really going to go back empty handed.

It is one of the cheapest multi places in the US but it is shared time ( not allowed under JAA rules) something they don't like to really tell you over the phone.

have a look at www.ilsapproach.com and do a search for Ari Ben it iwll only bring up bad things.

If you are after cheap flight time check out www.private2atp.com

Good luck

[MaxFlite]

I think there is always two sides to a story - I am at Ari Ben right now and I can't confirm that I've been treated badly. The reason I came here is to built lots of multi time and there are few places in the States that rival it for cheap hours. The planes might not be the newest, but they are maintained to a high standard and I have not yet missed a flight due to maintenance issues. Housing is also OK as they have just built ten new houses for their students.

:hmm:

[TKPILOT]

Well it's kind of hard to find out what to do here....
On one hand people say's it's ok and on the other it's quiet bad....
Well aint got much more sure what to do now....
Well
Thanks anyway and see you all up there
Thomas

[Prophead]

Does anyone have any experience with Ari Ben Aviator in Florida. Especially the 100 hour multi engine course.

Also I will be finishing my PPL soon and need to build hours before my CPL. I was thinking of getting mostly multi engine hours as i hope this will improve my prospects of getting a job at the after my CPL/IR. Has anyone else done this and would you recommend it.

Prophead.

[FlyingForFun]

Prophead,

The 100-hours multi hour-building package at Aviator is all shared with another pilot - one of you logs P1, the other logs Safety Pilot. Under JARs, you can not log safety pilot time, therefore you will only be able to use those 50 hours during which you were P1 and at the controls towards any JAR license or rating.

FFF
------------

[winch launch]

Prop head

I still think that it is very interresting. I am planning on doing that so tell me when you are thinking of going there. We might find an arrangment to share some costs, and hours.

Winch

[Prophead]

I still have around 10 hours to go to finish my PPL yet so i am just trying to do a bit of forward planning at the moment. Ill probably be looking around spring time hopefully and ill definately be interested in sharing costs. Even if i can only log 50 hours ill definately still enjoy the other 50.

I am trying to decide whether 50 hours multi will be better than 100 single which will be around the same price. Also i will only have a PPL so all flying would be VFR.

Is multi engine VFR flying worth much?

Prophead

[onehunga]

Seem to remember previous threads which suggested that this FTO operates their multi fleet on a 24 basis. Assuming this is the case there is a significant chance that the schedulers might have you up in the middle of the night flying your block. Might not be everyones cup of tea and worth considering.

[FlyingForFun]

Aviator will only let you participate in this scheme if you have an FAA multi-engine IR, as far as I know, so I don't think it would be suitable for you from what you've just said about your experience. Contact them to confirm this, though, because I'm not certain.

FFF
----------------

[Aircart]

FFF

Is right on this, you do need multi/IR and 70tt on the twin before you can go off and hr/build.

I did it in March and yes they make all hr builders fly at night, they use the planes for training in the day, this means you are restricted to where you go.

You don’t get to see much off the sun and flying in a straight line for 6 hrs a night is hard on the ass. (Seats lumpy!!)

Cheers

AC

[Prophead]

oh well. I thought it sounded too good to be true.

In that case i will be looking at going to the US to do some single engine hour building.

Do most schools ask for a minimum number of hours before you can go ans fly single engine VFR?

Thanks for the replies.

Prophead

[J o e r g]

Hi,

if you want to built hrs in California let me know ....

I'm glad to help. There are may others and you guys
could share expenses. I'm flying across Europe right
now, but will be back in the U.S. in a while.

When do you plan to come over?

Pls keep the "Backround Ck" and the time required
in mind (up to 60 days - usually less).

http://faa.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/faa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_sid=bjN5XT*g&p_lva=&p_faqid=76

Best,

JOERG


www.FerryPilot.de

[winch launch]

prophead and other people that might be interested.

I found out that one of the belgium FTO (JAA), has a second school in the US that is only used for the belgium students to do hours building. they propose 89 hours that include 29 on Pa28 and 60 on PA 34 seneca!(2 of the hours on Pa28 are with an instructor, and 10 of the ones on Pa34 are also with an instructor).
The price of all this is 13000 dollars.
I think it s quite good, especially because the dollar is very weak at the moment.
You can build more hours for 54 dollars on Pa28, and 190 for Pa34 (if my calculations are right it makes a 100 pounds for 1 hour on Pa34)
The belgium people that did that seem to be happy about it, and the fto that runs this is very respectable. I might go t at the end of spring so if anyone is interested, PM me.

Winch

[BIG MISTER]

Hi

I know that Ari-Ben Aviator have been spoken about before and I know all about the shared hours building ect ect......but has anyone been their recently and can give me an up to date account of the set up and what they liked and disliked ?

Also I would be interested to hear (on here or via PM) about their J1 visa scheme. Has anyone done it, thinking about it or on it at the moment ?

Answers on a postcard to this address !

Cheers

:ok:

[Flying surfer]

All I can say is be very wary of them they are rip off merchants

[BIG MISTER]

Care to qualify that statement at all ?

[POL.777]

seems ultra cheap - what is the catch?

[razzele]

so.... dyermaker ...


tell me about the fuel truck


:}

[FlyingForFun]

Are second-hand experiences from 5 or 6 years ago really very relevant? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Never been a customer of Aviator, but I did my CPL at EFT, who use Aviator's aircraft, and the general feeling around the place certainly wasn't all doom and gloom, as most of the posts here would have you believe.

The 100 hours multi is indeed 50 hours of P1 and 50 hours of safety-pilot. And if you intend to use the time to gain JAR licenses, or a job in Europe, you can't use any of the 50 hours of safety-pilot time. So the question is whether the price is good for 50 hours of multi-time. I haven't checked prices recently, but I gather that, when you look at it this way, their price is around average, or possibly slightly lower than average because of the very high usage their aircraft get.

Razelle, please tell me what relevance the fuel truck has? Do you really expect a brand-new tanker when you're looking for budget flying? Yes, it's a bit old, and it breaks down from time to time (and is replaced by another truck when it does break down), but if you're really going to make a decision on where to rent aircraft based on that......

Lewy, do a search on this forum. You'll find that Aviator have been discussed many times before. As far as I can rememer, they've never come under as much fire as they have this time - which is why I find the replies you've received here so strange.

FFF
--------------

[redbull21]

Does anyone have any information on the Multi engine time advertised by Flyaviator.com on the Beech Duchess in Pilot Magazines etc.

The advert suggests they are offering 100 hours Twin time for $5,995, sounds extremely cheap to me. I have heard that this is shared time ie 50 hrs P1 and 50 hrs in the right seat though do not know if this is true (more thn likely based on the price.

If any of you have been there done it and got the T shirt, I would be grateful for your comments about the organisation.

Thanks

[FlyingForFun]

Yes, that is correct.

Note that, under JAA rules, the time you spend in the right hand seat is not loggable, and therefore does not count towards the minimums for any license or rating issue, nor can you put it on your CV when applying for JAA jobs. (It does count under FAA rules, though, and so you can use it towards minimums for an FAA license.) $5995 for 50 hours of multi time, however, is still pretty cheap, so don't let this put you off.

Most (all?) of the flying will be at night, because the aircraft are used for training during the day.

Others will, I'm sure, have more information. I haven't been there or got the t-shirt, but I have flown with EFT (who share premises and aircraft with Aviator), which is how I know what little I know.

FFF
------------

[razzele]

i can can confirm that hour building is generally later in the day and is henerally performed on an instrument flight plan under hood with a right seat pilot performing safety pilot duties. so it isnt 100hrs pic..more like 50 pic..but still its alot cheaper than flying a twin in england...its very roughly approximately around 72.20 pounds per hour of pic !





:E


cheers

r

[redbull21]

Thanks very much for your replys, have either of you actually been there and done it?

[pilot dude]

There is an other option of doing this, you will have to get your CFI/MEI than you can log the rightseat hours as flightinstructor.

This will only work if you already have your CPL/IR.

But if you want multi hours I think it is better to have hours as a SIC on a little bigger aircraft than a dutchess. You can also go to f.e. Eaglejet (www.eaglejet.net) where you get 100 hrs chieftan for $7500 or Alpine Air (www.alpine-air.com) 250 hrs Beech 99 for $13900

PD

[redbull21]

Pilot Dude

Thanks very much for the info, I'll check them out. I do have a CPL/IR, though the IR is currently lapsed.

Redbull21

[sharksucker]

Since the accident, August 17th, Alpine can only give training to Students with a working permit for the US...
Sorry about this, training here was great! Try eaglejet.net, they do training with Ameriflight, same aircraft, similar operation...
Regards,
Sharksucker

[Touch'n'oops]

Want cheap aircraft go to www.airdesertpacific.com

Really cheap aircraft, but also pretty dodgy!!!!

['I' in the sky]

What accident ?

Who are Alpine ? Whar does this have to with Ari Ben Aviator ?

[dsp1285]

Hi all,

I am looking to get 14 hours multi time asap, can probably get to florida this saturday (2nd oct) but need to find a school that has a twin at good rates!!

If anybody needs help with getting out there at this short notice i may be able to help also....

Look forward to your replies

Cheers:)

[2close]

Really cheap aircraft, but also pretty dodgy!!!!

Air Desert Pacific??

Touch'n'Oops,

Could you elaborate on this please (PM if you wish) as I was considering them for my FAA IR?

I've only ever read good stuff about them and they've always been friendly and responsive to enquiries (not that it's any indication).

I had my fingers burned once before in the USA and I don't want to go through that again.

Cheers,

2close

[2close]

Does anyone have any up to date info on Ari Ben Aviator, in particular the 200 hour ME course with all FAA ratings?

I'm trying to get some detailed information on the course - I've tried the 'horse's mouth', so to speak, but it's like pulling teeth trying to get the detail I'm after, i.e. a breakdown in terms of hours flown, aircraft used, time required, how much is shared time, etc. for each stage of the course. I would have thought that level of information would be to hand but there you go.

I'd be grateful for any recent experiences.

Best Regards,

2close

[Fellow Aviator]

I don't have experience with them but what I have heard, when on the hour building program, flying is usually done in evenings and nights. The aircraft are used for other training in day time and hour builders fly after they are finnished up. If you are logging JAR time, only 100 hours can br used since safety pilot time can't be logged according to JAR. If you go for the 200 hour building package, you'll fly 100 hours as P1 and 100 hours as a safety pilot (which can't be logged).

[2close]

Cheers guys,

However, the adverts and the bit of info I have received outlines that at the end of the 200 (+20) hours, you will have the following (and I'm rounding up/down - read guessing - the hours in brackets)

MEP (10)
MEIR (40)
MECPL (20)
SECPL (+20 SEP)
CFI (ME) (20)
CFII (5)
MEI (5)

That makes roughly 100 hours ME PUT (I have FAA/JAA PPLs with 270 hrs PPL/NQ/IMC - post qualified log it as P1S under the FAA scheme as I recall) so that would leave 100 hours for hour building, which as rightly pointed out would probably be shared time at night.

What I'm trying to establish is confirmation that this is how it is, how long each of those phases would take approx., and what is the REAL likelihood of instructor time afterwards.

Again, many thanks,

2close

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

Fellow Aviator, if you are able to obtain an FAA multi engine instructor and possibly instrument instructor rating you will be able to log all of your flight time during shared time building; even under JAA regs. One pilot logs their flight time as dual given, the other as dual received. Also, it is often possible to persuade the other pilot to allow you to do all of the flying. Often the people that do such hour building want the hours, not the stick time. They just want 100-200 multi to qualify for a regional airline. For a small price some US hour builders may well allow you to do all the flying while they log the time as "safety pilot." It's quite possible to build JAA loggable multi time for about 40 quid an hour at schools such as Skymates and Ariben Aviator. You just have to be aware of how to go about it.

[Fellow Aviator]

Interesting points Fair Weather you have there. I wasn't aware that flight time as a safety pilot can be logged after an MEI rating has been obtained. I not sure what you mean as dual given, I understand that it means that you are the commander of the aircraft?

In order for the other pilot to log time as dual received, in my understanding, the other pilot has to be an instructor.

[Pace152]

I just stumbled across this thread by accident but basically it comes down to exactly what flyingforfun says, under JAA rules you will only be able to count half of the hours as P1. This is basically how he makes it so cheap as 2 students are paying for the same hours at the same time.

I went over there about 6 weeks ago and although the flying school itself looks like a mechanics garage thats been hit by a hurricane, the aircraft themselves do look to be of a high standard, with HSI's etc.

He also does a good scheme whereby you go to learn your FAA Instrument, Commercial and Flying Instructor ratings with him and he then employs you for a year under a J1 visa. It maybe worth you talking to him about that.

[lgt]

Hi!

I´m considering this school to get the FAA licences under their Proffesional Pilot Program and then being hired as a CFI in order to gain flight time experience towards my ATP with ME aircraft.

Has anybody of you had any experience with them? Are they good? Is true that about being hired as CFI for as much as 2 years (with a J-1 visa)?

Thanks for your comments.

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

The best place to find info on this school is www.jetcareers.com. They have their own forum on there where you will find many current students opinions. Hope this link helps:-

http://forums.jetcareers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=40

[JePilot AB330/320]

Well, I went to this school and got all my ME ratings there. The price is cheap, I think its about 32K, they have about 12 BE-76, kinda old, they brake down alot, but get fixed quickly. Time building is great, U get about 100hrs just to time build. In general its a very cheap and fast way to way to get ME time.
About the Visa, I think with the J1 u have a total of 2 years that ur allowed to stay there, thats including the time u take to get ur licences, most people go from Privalte to MEI in about 14 moths, u can get it done faster if ur willing.

[KrazyKraut]

There are loads of other threads about Ari Ben Aviator and EFT on this forum.

Just do a search.

KK

[B200Drvr]

I did the 200hr course, it took me 5.5 months to go from start to finish which left me 18 months to work as an instructor, I got offered a job soon after finishing so did not stay for the full term, but most of the guys did and ended up with 1800 hrs or so, most of that was ME time

[razzele]

Great Place to build excellent experience

PM me if you want any questions answered


razzele

:ok:

[ladybird380]

[quote=razzele]Great Place to build excellent experience

PM me if you want any questions answered


razzele

:ok:

Hi ya,i just thought it's worth asking how this ARIBEN is?All i need is some 80 hours PIC time and struggling to find a place!It is a nightmare to go there and find the planes falling apart,miles away student accomodation,uniform,extra so-called "tuition" fees,bla bla bla..That's what happened when i did my PPL with Delta!

How do you recommend this place?Do they help to get a visa?When i arrive at the airport,will there be someone waiting?(Unfortunately i don't drive!)Do they have accomodation close to the school?

Thanks Razzele.

[razzele]

the key words in my above post where PM me with any questions!!

ladybird check your inbox !

:ok:

[2close]

Does anyone have any up to date first hand experience of ABA re: training standards, aircraft, accommodation, attitudes, professional programme instructor employment, etc.

Be grateful for any info.

2close

[Lord Flashart]

Considering doing my FAA ME/IR and the 100hr multi P1 program at Ari-Ben and would like some feedback from people who have trained there - how is the quality of training? How much did it cost you to convert your ratings to JAA afterwards?

They told me it would be OK to take the aircraft away for a while if I covered additional fuel costs over and above the (fairly meagre) allowance they give - has anyone done this and how was your experience - were they accomodating to this request and did you have any problems.

thanks.

[flight259]

I'm looking for some info on this school, ari-ben aviator (www.flyaviator.com (http://www.flyaviator.com)) as far as the professional course is concerned (multi, commercial, instrument rating and flight instructor). Can anyone, who possibly attended or is attending this school (and this course) give me some info about it? Thank you in advance.

[Cpt. Relax]

If you are from Europe, why should you only get FAA ratings?
You can't work with them in Europe...

[flight259]

yes, I know, but I'd sooner get a faa licence and then look for a job abroad (if I'm not going wrong, faa licences are accepted almost all over the world, exept in europe), than spend much more for a jaa in Europe where it seems to be much more difficoult to find a job. Thank you anyway:)

[LostAndFound]

how re things at ari ben now?any info will be appreciated

[PIELORD]

Hi

I would like to hear from people who have experience of training at Ari-Ben recently (preferably within the the last twelve months).

Please feel free to pm me or post any experience you have of this school and its Pro Pilot, or 100h hour time building scheme.

Many thanks......:ok:

[PIELORD]

Hi

I would like to hear from people who have experience of training at Ari-Ben recently (preferably within the the last twelve months).

Please feel free to pm me or post any experience you have of this school and its Pro Pilot, or 100hr hour time building scheme.

Many thanks......:ok:

[B2N2]

Keep in mind that the J-1 visa program is on it's way out.
Source: AOPA Online: Work-study visas for flight students set to end (http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2008/080717visa.html)
Ari-Ben is also not well known for paying their instructors decent wages or allowing them to work somewhere else which the visa does allow.