A US-Domestic Duty Time Question:

[skywerd]

A coworker posted this on our pilot's website just today. Any input is much appreciated.
The post:

"Let's say a crewmember is scheduled for 8:00 of flying for 4, 2 hour flights during one duty period. On the second flight of the day, they divert to an airport and land having flown 5 hours total. Scheduling assigns them a flight back to their 2nd leg destination (1:00), then the rest of their original schedule (4:00) for a total of 10:00.
I thought this was clearly illegal, as it constituted a reschedule, in which case you add up the flying you've done and the flying you're assigned and you have to be under 8:00.
Section * Part * Paragraph *of the GOM states:
"A crewmember will not be considered in excess of eight hours, between duty periods, if a diversion or delay caused by a circumstance beyond the control of the company occurs. If the next leg of your series of flights will carry you beyond 8 hours for the day you may still accept the assignment if these legs were part of your original schedule."
I thought this applied as a distinction to how we treat the 16 hour rule. For that, if the next flight carries you over, you don't depart, whereas with the 8 hours if you were delayed throughout the day you are okay to exceed the 8 hours if they were all on your original schedule.
Essentially, does a diversion constitute a reschedule or is it just a stop on the way to destination and therefore on your original schedule?

need references to FARs, precedents from previous incidents, etc.

Right now the company and FAA both believe if you diverted 3 hours away, you could essentially be assigned to fly 14 hours between duty periods (8 original, plus 3 hours to a diversion and back). I think they're wrong but need some back up."



Disclaimer: I posted this with his permission and have done my best to maintain anonymity of both the company and the individuals involved.

[None]

I'm no expert, but here's what my research turned up.
Having been legally scheduled, a pilot may exceed the 8:00 limit if the additional time is due to circumstances beyond the control of the company, such as weather, maintenance, etc. As long as the pilot is flying to the originally scheduled destination, there is no FAR limit on flight time.
"FAR 121.471.g). A flight crewmember is not considered to be scheduled for flight time in excess of flight time limitations if the flights to which he is
assigned are scheduled and normally terminate within the limitations,
but due to circumstances beyond the control of the certificate holder
(such as adverse weather conditions), are not at the time of departure
expected to reach their destination within the scheduled time."
Diversions are permitted as long as departure from the divert station is for continuing flight to an original stopover or destination.
An altered schedule is a totally different story, and the 8-hour limit will apply.

[upsfr8rcaptain]

We've been through this at our ops, and this is your answer for the domestic flying American rule. :rolleyes: Cheers.




Lots of folks have heard the name, but what is the Whitlow letter and how does it apply to our operations ? James Whitlow served as the Deputy Chief Counsel for the FAA and on November 20, 2000, he provided an interpretation of FAR 121.471 which is known as the Whitlow letter. It came in response to an October 15, 2000 episode of 60 Minutes titled “Sleepless in the Cockpit.”

Whitlow responded to several questions posed by the Allied Pilots Association and clarified several “gray” areas. In particular,
he noted that under existing regulations, flight time is limited to eight hours a duty period but may be exceeded in actual operation
“due to circumstances beyond the control of the carrier.”
“The exception applies only to the scheduling of flight time. It is inapplicable to, and does not excuse, a violation of a rest
requirement.” Pilots are required to “look back” after every arrival and find at least an 8-hour rest period within the previous 24 hours.


The following questions that relate to the above scenario were presented to Whitlow by the APA, with his response following each.

Question:
If a ground delay continues to the point that the look-back rest period is

reduced to less than eight hours, can the crew continue?

Whitlow:
“The flight may not take off if the look-back rest period is reduced to

less than 8 hours. There must be at least an eight-hour look-back rest period. The eight-hour minimum reduced rest may not be further reduced under any circumstances.”


Question:
If a ground delay would not provide at least eight hours of look-back

rest, can the crew depart legally based upon the published scheduled flight time?

Whitlow:
“No...the actual expected flight time must be used in determining the look-back rest period.”


This means that a weather delay on the ground must now use the actual routing rather than the originally scheduled flight time. Diversions for weather must be accounted for and the crew’s schedule must be adjusted accordingly. If you are now flight planned south over ABQ to ONT due to thunderstorms over DEN, the new flight plan and its anticipated time of arrival must be used for calculating the look-back. The original scheduled flight time cannot be used.


Question:
If there is a known ground stop for the destination of the final segment,

which would result in look-back rest of only 7 hours and 45 minutes, can

the crew legally leave the gate? If they
are off the gate when the ground stop


occurs, can they continue?

Whitlow:
“If it is known...that arrival based upon the actual expected flight

time will not result in at least 8 hours of look-back rest, then the flight may not leave the gate. If the flight is away from the gate, but is not yet in the air, then the flight may not take off.”:D

To this explanation, Whitlow added, “If the ground stop at the destination airport does not become known until after the flight is in the air, the FAA will not, as a matter of enforcement policy, take...action against the flight crewmember or the certificate holder for a violation of the regulations, provided the ground stop at the destination airport is an unforeseen delay...and the full, required minimum reduced restand the compensatory rest are given at the completion of the flight segment.” Because the legality of a flight schedule is a joint responsibility between dispatch and the crew, knowledge of this rule and its application(s) is imperative. Any change to a schedule that would result in a violation of this regulation should be immediately relayed to the crew for action. :=