EK: B777 Off Taxiway in Manila

[Charlie Murdoch]

Apparently an EK B777 departed the taxiway yesterday in Manila.

Anybody hear or see anything?

[Cessna1052]

If my memory serves me right,during Taxiway closures in Manila, especially the ones at the end, the countrys Carrier Phil Airlines 747 and 340s(w/c is as lengthy as the 777) are towed into the Runway and the trucks do the turn for them. This Procedure came up during one of their Simulator sessions on the 747, did the 180 turn and found out that its Nose wheel will be touching a portion outside the runway,since then this procedure has been incorporated during taxiway closures on a heavy weight take-off, w/c for sure necessitates a full rwy t/o run. ATC is in coordination, so traffic will be adjusted during the process.
Does Emirates have options to do the same?

[semper fi]

So much for 10,000 hour drivers......maybe most of them was on a baby jet.
triple seven's are a wee bit bigger mayt......:=

[145qrh]

Not defending crew, however it was not a DEC, guy of 10-12 yrs , and experienced F/o......mistakes happen, don't know what happened, and I'm fairly sure you dont either......


:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[Statorblade]

Semper fi,

Listen here mayt, sounds to me as if you are a wee bit jealous. Failed interview was it ?:D

As 145qrh says, you have no idea what happened - so leave it alone.:=

[hans_airbus]

MOST OF THE GUYS HERE ON PPRUNE WHINING AND COMPLAINING ALL THE TIME AND SHOWING NO SYMPATHY TO COLLEAGUES ARE JUST F...... A...... AND LOOSERS.

Sorry for this guys but enough is enoug

[ratpoison]

Exacta Mundo Hans, maybe some of these know it all turds should take a good long look at their house or villa and see that it is still made of glass.
Pity the poor brothers involved. Now they have to contend with these :mad:'s in management :ugh: who have got all the "answers" why it happened.

[semper fi]

Soooo, did it really happen or is it another "professional" rumor???:confused:

[EGGW]

Yes, confirmed on the portal.

And to those who love to throw disparaging comments at fellow EK drivers, before knowing what happened, be aware that one day you maybe in that situation and would you like uninformed comment flung your way ??? :mad:
no i didn't think so! :rolleyes: :{

EGGW

[readytocopy]

Well thats company culture for you....everyone back stabbing everyone in this outfit. Keep it up boys.:D

[Ghostflyer]

You are making the wild assumption that the people commenting here actually have anything to do with Emirates.

Surely it is called operational risk. (yeah I know; don't call you shirley) Under another banner, **** happens, the world isn't perfect and I am pretty certain the boys were not trying to screw up. It happened, we will learn from it and no serious harm has been done.

[BYMONEK]

As long as we DO learn from it then great. Problem is though, i'm still waiting to learn from previous 'incidents' such as J'burg. :(

[Vorsicht]

Ghostflyer

On what basis do you assume we are going to learn from this incident. You must subscribe to the same management school as TCAS. He seems to think if you put an email out as soon as possible, telling everyone there has been an incident, then he has fulfilled his obligation to maintaining flight safety. Can you tell me one incident where there has been a published report coming out of EK on what happened and why.
I know for a fact that the training department has asked to be provided with de-identified information from flight safety so that the scenarios can be used in the sim. The response from flight safety was that they didn't want to release that sort of information.

Flight Safety my @rse!

[donpizmeov]

Can anyone confirm Cessna1052s statement about the Local carrier at this airport being towed for the runway 180s?
If this could be confirmed it might help stop this type of incident happening here again.

Don

[gatvol2006]

Well boyz, not sure if the portal site has been blocked for the outbound leg? Can't seem to get in? Censored? :zzz: However gotto say management did inform the portal of the incident asap....good:ok: Just be aware of employing anybody to suite the budget, fortunately just a nosewheel replacement....Remember we R bush (sand) pilots at the end of the day and common sense prevails!:)

[Schnowzer]

Vorsicht,

What do you want? TCAS put out an E-mail to tell us that there was an incident but everyone was ok. Next we get the ASR that says what happened. Read it first and then decide whether or not you can learn something. I won't try to defend what you say about Flight Safety releases to the Training Department but I'll believe you if you have it first hand. Must be osmosis but I am pretty sure that no one is using the 'old' rotation technique.

I cannot believe I am going to write this!

As far as information flow about incidents is concerned, TCAS seems to be heading in the right direction. TCK covered everything up (I only knew he had screwed the pooch when he got sacked), atleast TCAS seems to give us an early heads up of what has happened and I await the report with interest. Under the old regime we were always the last to know anything.

Schnowzer

[Cessna1052]

Can anyone confirm Cessna1052s statement about the Local carrier at this airport being towed for the runway 180s?
If this could be confirmed it might help stop this type of incident happening here again.

Don

Emirates can easily address this querry to the Authority in Manila, I'm sure PAL has some kind of concession for this kind of operation.
One

[semper fi]

Yes it was procedure for PR at one time, taxiway H2 in was closed so that required airlines with max t/o departures to have themselves towed to do the one eighty in order to use the full runway, we were behind one such departure and it did take up a lot of time, was fun to watch though. Later the procedure was scrapped because two flights (one PR A340 and one KL 777) did manage to get their nosewheels off the pavement again. the madness stopped when the taxiway opened again sending everyone off the normal merry way.:D

[Vorsicht]

Schnowzer

I'll tell you what i want. I want reports published by our safety department that tell us what happened, why it happened and what we or the company have done/can do, to avoid it happening again.

Our abreviated and censored safety reports do very little to inform anyone of what actually happened. Why? Because they are only the crews version and they are published before any investigation has taken place.

[singleseater]

I came out of MNL last month with the same restriction in place. Looked at the 180 turn on the runway. It should fit, the runway is 45 wide but there is extra where the taxiway joins. Also, I have found the er nose wheel tends tro skip in tight turns, increasing the radius We were at max ZFW (237) and 100 tons so pretty heavy. Decided against the turn, went from the intersection and still got full assumed benefit.
Prob most important, the Notam has no info about the length remaining from the intersection. The tower's initial clearance was for T/O from the inset.
When we asked for length remaining for the calc's, tower had no idea, took him a few minutes to find out.
I think the guys have been not been helped by:
Completely inadequate notam.
Lack of knowledge from the tower

I know the driver, he is a professional who does not push the limits, will be interesting to find his thoughts

[donpizmeov]

Would you believe that the notam was time expired the day before, and had not been reissued to the crew about the intersection departure. The OPT says intersection departures not to be done, and the taxiway at the end of the runway had been blocked and not available to the crew to use in the 180. It had rained in the previous 1hr. I believe the runway is stated to be 60m wide. I think the ER is quoted to need 56 and a bit meters (?) to turn around.
Sounds like a whole bunch of holes lining up to me. I totaly agree with singleseater about the professionalism of the grumpy old bugga that was driving on this flight.
I hope this gets sorted quickly and that both the FO and Capt get back on line ASAP.

Don

[Schnowzer]

Vorsicht,

Fair comment!

[semper fi]

Isn't Manila a 60m runway? 16 stripes i think........:)

[scanscanscan]

History repeats again....we expats in GF on the L1011 achieved several such incidents of off runway and taxy way nose wheels and main wheels buried in the grass, even sink through of main gears through soft taxy way surfaces.
I think the management thought we were trying to get time off down route.
Later on the B767 a national pilot we had trained did better he destroyed a hanger and blasted several light aircraft over and turned them into scrap.
There was some debate if he should have been allowed to paint a symbol of this strike beneath the cockpit side window like the military are allowed to do.
You emirates boys will have to try hard to equal the cock up of our abandon takeoff due burst tyres in the L1011 at CDG. left gear destroyed down to a strut that ploughed a single furrow down the runway. Captian ex BA retiree
was trained to abandon for a tyre burst...rumour is the French were still argueing compensation for closeing the runway with GF over that one but it all went away when GF bought Airbuses.
We also managed a stick shaker on the L1011 on finals into CDG. Australian Captain later fleet Captain (of course) was ex Cyprus airways.
Also an ex Cyprus Captain was the F/o and an ex Dan Air flight engineer....remarkably the flight engineer was heavily blamed for not monitoring! Go figure...as Ironbutt would say.
So there you go....what has been learned from these incidents by ex GF management who now manage other Gulf Airlines after they were replaced wholesale after the A320 fatal crash? It appears not a lot.
Fuel wise in GF we managed to take off from Bahrain on a flight to Bombay in a L1011 with 15 tons of fuel on board instead of 51 tons. This was a national flight engineer training flight with commercial passengers on a scheduled service... the training Captain and training flight engineer were involved in deep L1011 technical debate whilst signing for this verbally requested fuel load. This flight landed somewhat promptly into Auh to pick up fuel when the national under training pointed out his very first "How goes it" chart check said it was "Not going to well" in fact it said they were not going to make it!
We even had an Ex BA training Captain take off on Bahrain runway 30 for Bombay in a VC10 and ATC called him as he neared Kuwait requesting when he intended to turn right as per their clearance.
You emirates chaps have got to go some to keep up with the incidents we pulled.......fatigue is a myth...tiredness is normal.... it is all good fun...hardest part is trying to stay awake.
I will watch your incident progress with interest to see if you can pull somethying out of the hat to beat what we achieved.

[ironbutt57]

wow hadn't heard those stories...ok..ok maybe a couple...sh*&t happens I guess is the moral of the story...:}

[millerscourt]

scanscanscan

You forgot to mention the GF B767 Heavy Landing at Amsterdam costing millions to repair about 11 years ago by the then boss of GF and now of Etihad which i believe he repeated on an A340 (but that may be a rumour only) as I had left GF by then.

[scanscanscan]

Yes...But he did offer to pay for it....not many of us can do that!
Apparently he does not like GF much these days either.
Told the heavy landing was in Doha and not reported...next landing in AMS saw heavy fuel leaks and Dutch required them fixed...engineer team flown from Bahrain....officially this never happened...my neighbour was on the team..he has now died....big cover up.... so I do not think you will find it in any GF flight safety records or Oman ASR.

[Statorblade]

GF...........Ah yes.

Remember the Tristar at Colombo with a local Captain that used a somewhat inappropriate runway intersection which was not quite long enough for the planned departure. The aircraft spent the latter part of the take off roll mowing the grass after leaving the end of the runway before finally becoming airborne. The Captain subsequently had a long career as a trainer in GF.

.....The stick shaker event at CDG - the erstwhile "MD". The most serious chain smoker ever seen. But a lovely guy, unfortunately no longer with us.

In fairness to EK though, they have had a few "rippers". The A310 has provided some excitement on more than one occasion and the not so funny A340 at Jo'burg shows that these sorts of things can happen to any airline.

[OneInSixty]

So the driver must've been an expatriate and not a local,,,,,,,,,hence no funny or stupid comments, right ?

[sec 3]

"**** happens" to expats too and they also get s:mad: t on in this forum, some rightly so,some not. Nobody's immune:bored:

[AIMS by IBM]

I remember EK trying to sqeeze a B 777 into a gate that was limited to a DC 10 only at Manilla.


They got away with it with a lot of luck.

verry, verry poor planning from S****m J*****i

Anyway he got demoted and couldn't cope with it and started the backstabbing.