What exactly means "frozen ATPL"?

[acuba 290]

Please explain what does it mean? Frozen ATPL? What is the way to frozen ATPL for as example PPL holder with IR+ME ?

[vetflyer]

Lots of written exams :)

[dwshimoda]

Acuba,

Frozen ATPL means someone who holds a CPL licence, and an IR, and has passed the 14 ATPL theoretical exams. It allows you to act as co-pilot on a multi-crew aircraft. Once you have achieved 1,500 hours (these hours must include numerous requirements) the ATPL becomes unforezen, and you could, in theory, move over to the LHS and be a Captain of an airliner.

If you are already a PPL with IR & ME, you will need to do the CPL element, and there may be a requirement to do some more exams.

You will get more information by browsing the Professional training fourm, or even better, using the search function - there is loads of info on these forums that will help you.

If you don't already have the licences you mentioned, you'll alos need loads, and loads, of cash :(

[S-Works]

There is no such thing as a frozen ATPL it is a phantom licence, a term used to represent the hope that one day the holder of a CPL/MEIR who has passed the ATPL exams will gain 1500hrs of flight time containing, night, instrument, multicrew time and then pass a multicrew flight test so they can then apply for an ATPL.

Often used by those who have undertaken such exams to differentiate themselves from the rest of the wheat and chaff who only hold a CPL/MEIR without ATPL exams or even mere PPL's.

:}

[IO540]

An awful lot of PPL instructors are frozen ATPLs, building up the hours in their logbook.

It's perverse that sitting in a C150 next to a student can possibly count towards the qualification for flying in a multi-crew jet, but there we are...

[Cutoff]

It is a phantom licence no doubt, but it is a term used not only by those that 'have one' to seperate the wheat from the chaff as Bose says, but the airlines recognise it too when stipulating minimum requirements for recruitment. By stating that as a min it implies a ME IR, CPL and the 14 ATPL exams, and more often than not a MCC Cert too, just easier and quicker to write fATPL than that lot.

[acuba 290]

thank you very much for clearance of this term

[DFC]

An awful lot of PPL instructors are frozen ATPLs, building up the hours in their logbook.
It's perverse that sitting in a C150 next to a student can possibly count towards the qualification for flying in a multi-crew jet, but there we are...

That type of pervertion has been stopped thanks to the JAA.

1500 hours multi pilot experience required now before applying for an ATPL.

Regards,

DFC

<edit: err, you sure about that?>>

[acuba 290]

That type of pervertion has been stopped thanks to the JAA.

1500 hours multi pilot experience required now before applying for an ATPL.

Regards,

DFC

with 7 years old must start to fly multicrew:)

but serieusly, it takes how long time, how many years to get 1500 hours?

[JonWhitehouse]

Hi, Most airlines i've researched estimate that it takes a first officer about 7 years to get the 1500 hours, that will vary depending on the airline of course, but it's a ballpark figure.
regards
JonW

[dontpressthat]

7 years to notch up 1500 hrs???
Thats only 17hrs a month!!

Surely 40hrs ish p/m is a more reasonable assumption therefore 3years or so for your 1500.... I could be wrong.

DPT

[JonWhitehouse]

I guess it could be an average, I read it on a couple of airline recruitment and ATPL training websites (fraid I can't remember which!) which is why it stuck, could the maximum flying hours per month/week regulations be a factor?
Regards
JonW

[Cutoff]

Most mainline airlines run their crews toward the 900hr max in a year figure, certainly above 700hrs per year. So 7 years to 'unfreeze' is a bit long!

[Flying Farmer]

DFC you said "1500 hours MULTI PILOT experience required now before applying for an ATPL."

Not strictly true. The ATPL upgrade from vanilla CPL/IR can be applied for with a total of 1500 hours of which 500 must have been in a Multi Crew aircraft. There are also minimums for instrument, cross country and night flight times amongst others, this is assuming a JAA licence.

IO540 Iwould be interested to know how furure multi crew pilots are going to gain experience? shame about my 1000 hours instructing, I guess it didnt help me in any way at all when I moved on to piston twins, which in turn got me a break with a turbine operator.

[DFC]

Flying farmer, you are totally correct. I should indeed have said 500 hours multi time.

That would be less than 1 years flying for most operators these days.

Of course having an ATPL means very little. Some companies will have a senior first officer grade. What really counts is meeting the company requirements for upgrade to Captain.

Regards,

DFC

[IO540]

Iwould be interested to know how furure multi crew pilots are going to gain experience? shame about my 1000 hours instructing, I guess it didnt help me in any way at all when I moved on to piston twins, which in turn got me a break with a turbine operator.

Of course every bit helps, if taking the long and torturous route you describe. Most ATPL hour builders I have met (which is the great majority of instructors I have met) are scanning the airline ads daily; they want to go straight in to the RHS.

Then, I don't see the relevance of the 1000hrs in a C152, other than sheer stamina :O Of course there are the occassional fringe benefits in the form of a female student in a short skirt :O

[JonWhitehouse]

apologies, the 7 years I remembered is just over what seems to be an average time to captain for many airlines, not the time it takes to unfreeze the ATPL. see http://www.futureairlinepilot.com/timetocapt.html
Regards
JonW

[Flying Farmer]

Female student, in a short skirt, in a 152 :E tell me where, I seemed to end up with the sweaty ones with bad breath :}

IO will agree on that point 500 hours 152 time is more than enough to gain some Captaincy skills.