More Flagging Out by UK airlines

[Nightflyer]

Just heard that BA have applied to the DETR to add another US crewed 747 freighter from Atlas. Also Sabre have aslo applied to hire in two L-1011's for coming season. Things never change when it comes to protecting UK pilot interests.

[OzDude]

Just saw this link from another thread: http://www.atol.org.uk/airlinelic/pdf_files/or2number2.pdf . Quote from page 4:
2. British Airways Plc for the period 8 September to 30 September 2000 inclusive; to provide additional capacity; two Boeing 747-400F aircraft, registrations N494MC and N495MC; US registered.

The Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions has approved British Airways’ application to lease N494MC for a period of one year and N495MC for a further month. A temporary waiver has been granted until an audit has been carried out.

The applications were published in Official Record Series 2 Nos 1426 and 1431. These waivers are an extension to those previously granted which were published in Official Record Series 2 Nos. 1436, 1441 and 1446.

Weren't BA told to bugger off with their 'exceptional circumstances' requirement when they applied to extend the Atlas 747 contract?

Looks like BA have been slipped another wet one by their friends in high places and the flaggin out issue is once again ignored by those two faced, lying scum who run the department which is responsible. What's the bet that some smarmy politician hasn't been offered a place on the board of BA when he decides to retire from politics?

[This message has been edited by OzDude (edited 24 September 2000).]

[sexocet]

Come on now, OzDude, you are not alleging misbehaviour in high places in the land of Pom, are you?
Surely the bureau of dotted i and crossed t would not even dream of a little hanky panky like those awful foreigners, would they?
Do you mean to say that after trying to bury those troublesome pilots in rules and regulations, they are already surfacing and actually trying to question the powers that be , and official policy.
Quick men, to the ramparts, lets drum up much more complication and obfuscation to keep them pilots busy, and off our backs. Next thing you know they will be demanding accountability!

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on target

[MonkeyWrench]

Saw reported today that Atlas has set up a UK (STN based) operation called Global Supply Systems to operate ACMI using 2 B744Fs transferred from Atlas. Atlas owns 49%, a gentleman named John Porter the rest. Ops to start in autumn for... BAWC.

I'm a long way from being an expert on these things - does that get round the CAA's arguments, as it'll be UK cargo capacity BA is chartering then.

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Monkey Wrench

[snooky]

I think that Sabre are now known as Excel, and plan to use 3 767's of Air Atlanta (Icelandic) this summer.
Can't imagine that Iceland would allow UK aircraft to operate charters from there. Why do the government continually allow this sort of thing?

[upwiththebirds]

Snooky sadly you're wrong. Sabre operated charters FROM Iceland to Spain and UK all 1999 season. Excels use of Atlanta 767s complies with European trade agreements. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of flagging out but facts are facts. Whether they will use European/Icelandic crews is another matter!??

[Justin Abeaver]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are not Iceland FULLY COMPLIANT within the JAA?

It works both ways, you know!!! (Sadly for our unemployed pilots).

BEAVER

[boxmover]

The q is what sort of passport will these 767 pilots have.

EEA or not that is the question.

[ETOPS]

Sadly the two 747 freighters story is true. GSS has been set up to operate these aircraft which will both be UK registered and operated under a wet lease to achieve "flexibility" - although why they can't be flown by our own 747 crews I don't know.

[Thrush]

Boxmover,

I understand that the Icelandic (Atlanta) 767s are to be crewed by the White Hatters, so UK jobs, in this instance, are safe. I imagine what will happen is that the CAA or Icelandic Authority will issue JAA ATPLs to enable them to crew the TF reg aircraft. This is assuming Atlanta have put them on the TF reg.

This still leaves the question of wet leasing. I hear Monarch have ACMIed an Egypt Air A300. Don't know if this is correct but is scandalous if it has been allowed.

[Flightrider]

Snooky,
Whilst Iceland and Norway are not fully fledged members of the EU, both countries are signatories to the EU Third Package, which includes liberalisation of air transport. Both countries are therefore treated as members of the EU insofaras leasing and all other aspects of air transport are concerned. As noted above, this means both UK carriers can operate within the EU from Iceland/Norway without restriction or Icelandic or Norwegian carriers can do so from the UK. The only restriction is that the Icelandic aircraft in the UK cannot fly to Cyprus/Turkey etc as those countries are not in the EU.

Phew!

[Next Generation PSR]

Actually, sorry to be pedantic with this one I think you will find that for the whole of Summer 2000, Air Atlanta were operating L1011s (TF registered) from LGW to DLM/PFO/LCA on behalf of Sabre. So I don't think that is a restriction.