View Full Version : FIC Long Briefs
Jinkster
15th May 2006, 18:50
Evening All,
Just wondered what subject you did your FIC long brief on? If anyone has got notes they willing to share please PM me.
Jinkster :)
G-KEST
15th May 2006, 21:58
The mind boggles. Why can't you do your own homework? Preparing lesson plans is part and parcel of any FIC. At least it was for me.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
:mad: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:
Found Trevor Thom/AFE Aircraft technical to be most useful when putting together long briefs on the technical/POF stuff. Also helps to remind you how much you have forgotten after the ATPLs!!!
unfazed
16th May 2006, 07:46
Subject was what causes a spin but could I propose an alternative
Why are people too lazy to search a few web sites and use their own brain power ! Come on you are going to be teaching people so stop being so lazy !!:mad:
FlyingForFun
16th May 2006, 08:34
Doesn't sound to me like Jinkster is being lazy, just inquisitive. Surely if I tell him what subject I did my long brief on, or even if I sent him a copy of my notes, it wouldn't help him unless he has the same subject?
Jinkster, my long brief for my initial FI test was on Human Factors. Unfortunately, someone nicked my folder with my notes on this brief (as well as all my other FIC notes) quite some time ago. I do remember that this happened not too long after I had a Human Factors related incident, so my incident played a big part in my brief.
My long brief for my instrument instructor test was on ADF tracking. I still use the same notes now when briefing IMC students.
FFF
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Well said FFF.
Jinkster is asking for the sharing of information which in aviation is never a bad thing is it? It's not like he's asking for JAR exam answers although that is perfectly acceptable on the wannabe's forum....
I really hope I don't encounter some of the hollier than thou attitudes I see around here in reality when I enter flight instructing! Why can't people just be civil and offer their advice - flying instructing isn't supposed to be a black art is it?
VFE.
homeguard
16th May 2006, 13:26
Flying training is certainly not a 'black art' but nor is it a regurgitating of other instructors research and hard work without an understanding.
I would hope that all FI Examiners will probe deeper than to allow a candidate to present a rehearsed presentation of their notes. An FI candidate will do well to research and therefore understand their briefs fully.
unfazed
16th May 2006, 13:34
Guy's - Come on !!
Jinkster I assume has completed or is soon to complete an FI course so I would very much hope that he has taken extensive briefing notes on every single aspect of the syllabus. Whatever long brief he gets he should be very well prepared for it.
What will he do when a student asks a question ? run off to the PC and ask a few Pruners ?
I have seen enough so called FI's who lack technical knowledge and flying technique so I really don't wan't to support somebody who can't be ar%£d to research his own long brief.
Surely I cannot be alone in that viewpoint ?:\
Chinchilla.612
16th May 2006, 14:51
It really is very disappointing to see such negativity from people when we are all invloved in the same dicipline. I can't understand why people have a hard time with sharing information to the degree that rather than just not help, they feel they have to put down the efforts of others!
I know Jinkster, and certainly would not describe him as someone who can't be @rsed as someone described it...far from it infact! The only error I feel he made was to be thorough enough to not only research from books and other instructors, but to broaden his search to here. Surely the idea of this site should be to encourage new instructors rather than frighten or shame them off?!
Those of you who think it is lazy to make the effort to ask feedback from others to try to improve their own game from a broader experience than they have immediately around them (in my opinion) shouldn't bother posting at all!
As for him searching on pprune for the answer to a students question, that is of course not likely to happen (just look at how much help we are!).
PS, Good luck with your FIC Jinkster and don't be put off by the less helpful members on here.
foxmoth
16th May 2006, 15:15
Well if Jinkster is guilty of cheating I suppose I must be too as I was after pre flight briefings on Powerpoint and got them off someone on this forum - but I am probably allowed to cheat having been instructing for nearly 30 years !:=
Jinkster
16th May 2006, 16:32
Many thanks for the help chaps! I do have some long briefs - some created by myself and if anyone wishes to use them in any way possible please feel free to PM me.
I am using this forum as research along with many other contacts and sources of information including websites, experienced instructors and of course books!!
Jinkster :)
unfazed
16th May 2006, 18:34
I am using this forum as research
One persons "research" is another persons "plagerism" !
Looks like I am outnumbered by a number of "researchers" so having made my viewpoint known I will leave you all to your "research":mad:
The difference between copying notes from a book and copying notes someone made from a book is........?
VFE.
foxmoth
16th May 2006, 19:44
One persons "research" is another persons "plagerism" !
Unlike some exams there is no requirement in the Instructors test for any of it to be your own original work, indeed it is often done straight out of the book or as shown by the guy running the course. What is required is to show that you can put the information over thoroughly and clearly, as long as you can do this effectively and have a proper knowledge of the subject to answer questions that is fine. At the end of the day the main thing is that any instructor should be able to teach effectively and if my notes or briefings will help this,then anyone is welcome to them.:ugh:
johnnypick
17th May 2006, 06:46
Does it really matter where the notes come from??? The examiner will know whether you've learnt and understood the subject, using someone else's notes is a good way of saving a bit of time and being able to get a 'life' that doesn't involve aviation. Also, some people need to do the course quickly to start earning some money again. My advice, beg/borrow/steal any notes you can and get the course done. I studied at a well known ATP school, where most of the tutors were copying from oxford notes, maybe all you 'researchers' should give them a call from your high horse.
rmcdonal
17th May 2006, 12:03
My brief was on stalls. My renewal was on Turns.
I can't help you out with briefing notes as all mine are on paper and I haven't gotten around to putting them on computer (yeah I know I’m lazy)
My briefs are a combination of all the instructors who have taught me. However unlike some schools I was made to know every last detail about the brief so that if a student asks any question I should be able to come up with some sort of answer, failing that I just use the 'your homework for tonight is to find out and tell me' :E .
unfazed
17th May 2006, 12:35
Sorry guy's not convinced
If you have put your own long brief lesson plan and slides together then you have thought about what you are going to present
If you cut corners you won't (and I have seen many examples where notes or slides have been borrowed and the results are often quite :) embarrassing).
fireflybob
17th May 2006, 14:58
When is the last time anyone in the "real" world did a "long brief" ? - I do plenty of pre flight (and post flight briefs) and "tutorials" on all sorts of topics but not many formal "long briefs" - maybe I should?!
unfazed
17th May 2006, 18:47
maybe I should?!
Well - Maybe you should !:ok:
rmcdonal
17th May 2006, 23:36
A lot of schools have done away with the long brief, they expect the student to read up on the information themselves. :8
FlyingForFun
18th May 2006, 11:33
I tend to do a couple of "long briefs" throughout the course - one on navigation, one on circuits. That's because my school does not give me enough time to thoroughly brief these subjects and fly them in one "slot". But with most exercises, I find that I can brief thoroughly (to contain the contents of both the long brief and the pre-flight brief) and then fly in the allocated time, so that's what I do.
My school also runs ground-school courses, which are done from a set of third-party slides. The skills in presenting this kind of course are very similar to the way you do long briefs on the FIC. (I wonder if the fact that I work from someone else's slides means I'm plagerising???)
FFF
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hugh flung_dung
18th May 2006, 14:23
IMO long'ish briefs are just about essential for: Stalling, spinning. circuits, Nav, applied IF, asymmetric theory, c/s props & fuel injection, aerobatic intro, tailwheel intro. Everything else is better from the books.
HFD
cavortingcheetah
18th May 2006, 15:48
:hmm:
I came up from Africa moons ago to fly for a UK airline as a direct entry captain.
The crew room was amply staffed with ex RAF wallahs who, with little disrespect intended to them, seemed to adopt the attitude that since they had had to find out the hard way, so should I.:ugh: There were a couple of note worthy exceptions to this, men who, once they realized that I had never seen a snowflake or experienced airfarme icing did really try to help.
This Jinkster chap is obviously a man of ability. Somewhere he posted a photograph of himself which showed a highly developed cranium, indicative of the potential for serious mental capacity. He should be encouraged and not disparaged for asking a senible question on a Flight Instructor Forum.
For my part; I prepared brilliant long briefs, yonks ago, on all the flight and classroom sequences. The excercise of doing so helped me to polarise the mind as to what to teach (that's the name of the game-not so?) the student in order to ensure that he got the best benefit of my limited knowledge and to try to guarentee that, when he finally found his way into the air, he would not try to kill me when I was there at the same time. It's all plaigarism anyway and the only sort of aviaiton idol we really don't want to plaigarize is Douglas Bader, who, as we all know, ended up legless for a rather silly aeronautical mistake based primarily upon his own hubris rather than a sense of good airmanship!
Boom Boom!!:ooh:
By the bye, unless I am very much mistaken, which never happens; Jinkster lives at KGB HQ, Moscow. Not a man to irritate then!
Jinkster
20th May 2006, 18:31
Very tempted to do a long brief on navigation. To what depth do you go to?
Thinking about having a plog - drawing some lines on a map and filling it in giving a fictious wind.
FlyingForFun
20th May 2006, 18:46
Jinkster - yes, that's what I cover when I do a long brief on nav. Use real wind (then you can include in the brief how to read MetForm 214), and also, depending on time available (and whether the student's eyes are starting to glaze over), brief on use of 6-min or half way marks, 10-degree fan lines, etc, and how to use them.Very tempted to do a long brief on navigationAre we talking about a long brief for your test, or a long brief after your test? If for your test, is your examiner giving you a choice??? If for real life, your school may have a view on these things once you start employment, but if not then just do what seems sensible given the time you have available with each student.
FFF
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Jinkster
21st May 2006, 16:02
FFF,
Test purposes. I understand he is giving me a choice - so I can prepare in advance.
I understand the pre-exercise (short brief) is at a moments notice!
Jinkster
BigGrecian
22nd May 2006, 00:18
For what it's worth - I did mine on basic aerodynamics.
I.e the forces involved, and an overview on how lift is created - and how the control surfaces as a result of this.
Good Luck Jinkster!
Dan Winterland
22nd May 2006, 10:11
The difference between plagerism and research is that with plagerism, you copy from just one document, whereas with research you copy from two!
Jinkster
22nd May 2006, 17:59
Thanks for the help!
Jinkster :)
rotorfossil
23rd May 2006, 14:55
Along with many other things in this time restricted enviroment of ours, the reason for doing the long brief well before flying the exercise has been lost. On the principle that a student only retains about 30% of a briefing (at best), the idea was that he went away, re read the brief or the prepared exercise notes and got more of the plot fixed in his mind. The short pre flight brief was a just a check on his retention, not new knowledge, and then detailing how the exercise was to flown under that days conditions.
tunalic2
30th May 2006, 10:59
I did my brief on the differences between aircraft and auto engines and the reasons why. I just thought it might make a change for the examiner, he seemed to find it interesting. Its the ability to 'brief' that was to be tested, I dont even think it has to be aviation orientated.
As far as plagerism goes we're not trying to reinvent the wheel here just pass on some tried and tested facts which can be adapted to suit you and/or the student,
relax folks it makes things so much more enjoyable.
T2
Jinkster
30th May 2006, 21:39
tunalic2,
Many thanks for your reply. That is the type of info I wanted to know. :)
Jinkster
Jinkster,
Pick the topic that scares you the most or you understand the least or you find the most difficult. By doing your own research on this topic will give you the most benefit as you will learn the most - the object of the course! I don't think you're trying to cheat and if you follow the above advice you will get the most benefit out of the long brief prep...:ok: I used spinning for the FIC, lots of good info on the net and in library books and the NDB hold for the IR/ME upgrade. Both subjects I was fairly clueless when I started and both I am a bit less clueless now!;) Best of luck!
Regards......
Jinkster
2nd Jun 2006, 16:16
Many thanks, that sounds great as a practice brief. Many thanks for the help.
Jinkster:)
Jinkster
6th Jun 2006, 14:18
Already completed a long brief on 'The effects of partial pressure' and got to do one more - then choose the best for test.
:hmm:
benhurr
13th Jun 2006, 09:14
I did basic gyro theory for my test. The examiner thought I was barking mad...
...So do I.
At least I understand it now, (well a bit anyway).
badgerpuppy
13th Jun 2006, 11:15
dear oh dear,
a guy comes on with a genuine question and look what happens.
disaster, ooh let's have a big argument because if you try really hard, you could make out that someone is taking the pis#.
But they're probably not are they.
Shame.
Jinkster, good luck with the test, when is it?
When I did mine (ok, it was 20 odd years ago) I was not told until I arrived for the test what the subject would be for the long brief & flight test so all subjects were prepared fully.
It was effects of controls so not too bad. I then had the choice of subject for a couple of short pre flight briefs following the long one (stalling & PFL).
We practiced (repeatedly) during the course using a whiteboard in preparation for the test & I still refer to my original notes - copied from the FI Instructors notes, copied from his F...... etc.
I found the initial (and first few renewals) stressful, so sought advice and hints as you have.
All the best.