Climb/ Unrestricted climb?

[Wander]

Hi all,
In my previous airline we were always told that if you got a clearance "climb FL 120" in a SID that had altitude constraints of "not above xxxx'" or "at xxxx'" then you climbed to FL120 but in accordance with the SID profile.
The key phrase, we were told, was "climb unrestricted" meaning disregard the SID constraints.
Is this correct or does a call to "climb FL120" on a SID that has a "not above 6000" mean you can disregard all further alt restrictions?
Is this the same in descent?
Thanks!
:E

[No Further Requirements]

I know in Oz that if you want the crew to disregard any SID specific height or speed requirements, you say 'cancel height requirement at (position)' or 'cancel speed restrictions'

Hope that helps,

NFR.

[BOAC]

Lots about it via 'search' ("unrestricted climb"), and I, as others, always acknowledge with "cleared unrestricted FL 80" or whatever - or if in doubt, clarify clearance. Messy, and we await a SRG answer (but not with breath held:) )

[anotherthing]

I work in at TC, I , along with my colleagues often give climbs above the SID level.

Think of it this way - the SID is a clearance. If you are then given another clearance for example as stated above "climb FL120", it cancels the old clearance unless the ATCO stipulates that the restrictions of the previous clearance still apply.... for example you are told by enroute to be level at FL130 by GWC, then you are transferred to TC. The controller then tells you to descend FL110.... unless the controller says "descend FL110, cross GWC FL130 or below", you can disregard the previous GWC level restriction.

The SID stepped climb is the same. As far as the London TMA is concerned no ATCO would give you further climb expecting you to follow the SID height restriction profile.

That would mean that you get off the deck, are given a climb to FL120, but you do not climb above 5000' for another 14 miles (or whatever the particular SID you are on stipulates)??

If you are given a climb above the SID level, it is often to get you above crossing traffic, or to get above traffic that is on a conflicting SID which you are normally held below (the ATCO using his or her judgement that you are ahead of the traffic or your climb rate is such that if you continue your climb you will be well above the other traffic).

To be given a climb, then follow the SID height profile is inherently dangerous and is tantamount to a conditional climb clearance, which is not used, certainly in the London TMA.

BOAC - with the greatest respect, SRG do not need to get involved. All the manuals state that a new clearance cancels the old clearance unless otherwise stipulated - it's already down in black and white, there is not really any room for debate over this one I am afraid. I gaurantee that all of my colleagues at TC would agree.

In fact we get quite frustrated when we give a climb and the pilot comes back and asks "is that unrestricted?"!!

:)

[Jumbo Driver]

This has been raised before. The climb clearance replaces the vertical profile of the SID, unless of course they are restated.

CAA Safety Leaflet - RTF Discipline - Advice to Pilots (http://www.levelbust.com/downloads/srgfodsafety_leaflet_rtf.pdf) confirms this.

:)

[BOAC]

anotherthing - BOAC - with the greatest respect, SRG do not need to get involved - only quoting from one of our learned friends on one of the older threads.

I still ask - better than finding out the controller and I thought differently, as some seem to!:) (See other threads - and we are talking world-wide, not UK only)