CORK - 2

[apaddyinuk]

So the burning question....Will the new terminal be opening up tomorrow???

[ryan2000]

Not a chance, no new date on the horizon. They'll be slow to name one after the debacle surrounding 1Oth May. Reports vary from early June to late September.

[apaddyinuk]

Well suppose I shouldnt be surprised...perhaps a little disappointed but not surprised!

[Tom the Tenor]

Had to shoot off elsewhere quickly after my previous post and have since picked up another great Cork Airport rumor with regard to the Munster rugby match operations. The latest going around is that Monarch want to overnight two A300s at Cork on the Friday night before the game! If this turns out to be the case and is agreed to runway 25/07 will just have to be commissioned as temporary overnight parking? :uhoh: What next!?

[Tom the Tenor]

Manchester - 2
Luton - 2
Newcastle - 2.

Cork is and will always be number 1! :)

[eoinok]

What ya on about there Tom??


How did she handle yesterday? Forgot to check, but I think there was a fair few charter flights over to the red warriors testamonial game? Would have been an interesting warm up for the airport for the Munster game with a few extra a/c floating around.

[Tom the Tenor]

Late Thursday evening was a bad one for Cork Airport due to the sea fog and RVRs of around 200 metres making CATII approaches below minima. Diversions followed with an Eirjet, two Aer Aranns and the three Aer Lingus Airbus A320s all ending up at Shannon. Cork bound passengers are once again on the receiving end of the airport's miserly regard for them by the lack of provision of a CATIII landing system in spite of our airport having such a poor overall weather record. It just beats me that Cork Airport passengers continue to let themselves be treated as second class at their own airport! Have the new airport management any interest at all in wanting to do a good job in which they can have any pride?

By all accounts the airport has agreed to two widebodies being allowed in at the one time next week for the Munster rugby match. One travel operator is advertising a day trip to Bristol for the game departing Cork at 0610 on the Saturday morning and it now appears almost certain that the Corse Air Boeing 747 will operate to Birmingham rather than to Cardiff.

One other item of significant news is that Ryanair are raising the stakes again at Cork by adding a third daily winter flight to Gatwick. The first departure to Gatwick will now be at 0620 hours and the early Dublin rotation appears to be gone. Looks like an opportunity there for Aer Arann to introduce another Dublin flight? The Gatwick development shows how eager Ryanair are to see off the competition from easyJet - for Cork's sake I hope easyJet stick it out at the airport!

[eoinok]

I was on the Fr9855 from Gatiwck last nite Tom. Did say it to my friend whom I was traveling with "I wonder what the fog situation is like at ORK"..... on final approach over the northside I was looking oout the window trying to spot any city lights etc etc.... got some shock when we hit the runway as I didn't see a single light....must ave been about 10.15pm and the apron was deserted... did think it unusual but I was well loaded I thought I did well o actually get on board :)
Inside there was an announcement that "eirjet flight blah from blah has been diverted to Shannon due to technical difficulties" I immediately thought "ah, crew have ran up their hours and had to go direct to shannon to avoid getting grounded in ORK"........... now it makes sense, they couldn;t say "has diverted to to being unable to land due to Fog" as a plane load off a 738 walked in past them :)

[jbsharpe]

I was pax on the EI flight from BCN... similar experience to eoinok.. wondering where the hell the northside had gone!
We did a 'go-around' (if that's the technical term).. ie the captain aborted the landing at (in my inexpert opinion!) a late stage in the approach.. my first time experiencing such dramatics!
30 minutes then holding over Cork waiting for a break in the fog before abandoning hope and making for SNN...
The contingency plans weren't exactly impressive.. pretty chaotic scenes up in Clare.. a coach arrived and people just hopped on randomly?? Surely this happens relatively frequently..
Our flight was on course to land at 2215 also.. interesting that the FR flight made it in but the rest didn't! I made it to bed by 3am in the end.. somewhat bemused by the whole experience!

[Unionjet28]

Tom,

I know for certain at least one of those diversions was more to do with the Centreline lighting just beyond the TDZ failing with the resultant increase in Minima. Not a good night indeed......:\

[FlyCorkInternational]

Following on from RyanAir adding the 3rd ORK-LGW flight for the winter. Its interesting and pleasing to see that they don't seem to be frightening off EasyJet at this stage. On looking thru EZY timetables, the 3rd flight has been re-instated for the summer (they had previously reduced to 2 for the summer). Summer flights are now 3 daily Mon-Fri, 1 on Sat, and 2 on Sun.
Their Winter schedule has also been loaded (although not yet bookable). For the winter they look like operating 3 daily Tue-Fri (No monday flight), 2 on Sat & Sun.

From Shannon & Knock, both are 1 daily for the summer, and 1 daily (Except Monday) for the winter.

[ryan2000]

The reduction in EZY flights from 3 to 2 flights per day is from late July to early September.
Unusual to see an airline cutting back for the busiest 6 weeks of the year.
Surely the lack of a Monday flight is some sort of an oversight as it would make no sense to have 3 flts from Tuesday to Friday and none on Monday.
Expect a massive fares war on this route for the 2nd Winter in succession although the early Ryanair departues is a big plus factor for them.
It could even take some of the business from Aerlingus whose 0730 departure usually experiences holding delays over OCKHAM and seldom gets in before 0845

[Bearcat]

Tom the T....your frustration with lack of Cat III at Cork hits us all. Cork will never have this facility as long as the current undulating terrain and hump on the 17 threshold remain which negates the ability to do an auto land as aircraft flare too early in autoland mode so we must disconnect @ 80ft latest. This leaves us with the only option of doing Cat II which is not ideal disconnecting automatics at such a late stage. Hence the minimums of 122 ?Rad Alt DH and 300m/ 125/125m rvr requirements. If you had Cat IIIA we would get 50RA 75/75/75M RVR. Thats a hell of difference and would make all this crap of diversions extinct. I am loathe to take swipes at EICK but from a drivers point of view it is a nightmare in low vis conditions.

Have they ever thought of putting in a Cat 3 on rwy 35? We'd have to put up with the tailwinds but we'd get in?:ugh:

[ryan2000]

Cork's Owner i.e The Dublin Airport Authority and the IAA will only move on CAT III when airlines put them under pressure on the subject. They can live with criticism from local politicians and disgruntled passengers.

I'm not sure if Ryanair or Aerlingus have made representations to them but it would help if they did.

[840]

I can add my name to the list of affected passengers having finally got home around 1:30 last night. As a small consolation, there were still passengers waiting to come in from Alicante and Edinburgh at that point.

Yesterday played havoc with Aer Lingus' schedule with many flights having 5 hour delays, an aircraft being brought down from Dublin to operate the Paris flight and attempt to clear some of the delays, not to mention all the aircraft that had to position down from Shannon in the morning. With the fourth airbus being added soon, it might encourage them to put some pressure on CAA/DAA.

I would imagine that Ryanair can tolerate the situation as they only have one based aircraft and are more willing to cancel flights (Was yesterday morning's Stansted flight cancelled?). The other airline that took a big hit yesterday was Aer Arann. They possibly don't have the same level of pull, but could play a role in reinforcing pressure from other sources.

[Bearcat]

840...the only way that Cat3 will ever be installed on the main ldg rwy being 17 is a major and I mean major reconstruction of the threshold area of 17. This will mean rwy closure and rwy 25/07 is not an option for a320/737 operations except in howling winds on the nose.
In conclusion, forget Cat 3, its pie in the sky and will remain so for the forseeable future. You will remain discommoded on foggy days. thats the plain reality of it.

[FlyCorkInternational]

[QUOTE=ryan2000]The reduction in EZY flights from 3 to 2 flights per day is from late July to early September.

All three daily flights are bookable until 30 September 2006, so it does appear that the third has been fully re-instated.

[ryan2000]

If you try booking during from late July to early September only the morning and afternoon flights are bookable.

The three flights are then re-instated for the rest of September. Will someone tell Easyjet that the six week period is extremely busy on Cork London. I cannot imagine why any airline would redcuce frequency for that time of the year.

Maybe its an oversight on someones part.

[asianfly]

Wasn't it former transport minister Jim Mitchell who infamously described Knock as a 'foggy boggy airport' or something to that effect. It seems like the description would be more apt for ORK. Bearcat is right...if the sun ain't shining, expect a long bus ride back from our friendly airport down the road at SNN! In Ireland, in order to go from A to B, you usually have to take the scenic route and take in C as well. :sad:

[brian_dromey]

Just wondering, how come why it is that shannon has so much political support, surely there are far more seats and voters in the Cork area to pacify? I dont get it.

As Im here any news on extra routes from EI for the winter, or is it pretty much the same,except for daily BHX(well maybe second UK destination) and 2x weekly TFS?

[Tom the Tenor]

Was in the Cork terminal around tea time on Friday evening and the knock on effects of the previous night's diversions were plain to see. It was a mess with the place crowded out and the Liberty Stream Creche going at full tilt with playful, screeching children running around like mad things! What the decibel level must be! Far noiser than any first generation jet or Concorde to be sure! The main restaurant was doing the usual Cork thing by closing and the queues for the Coffee Cuisine shop were very long with throngs of hungry customers waiting patiently to be served.

The EI to Alicante was boarding going out a nice few hours late around 8.30 pm. The two Heathrows, EI715 and EI723 came in within a few minutes of each other making the '715 more than 4 hours late before she went out again as the EI844 to Amsterdam at 2125 hours about 3.5 hours late. The inbound FR from DUB was late due to wx at Dublin so when she eventually got in and emptied there were then three Londons boarding, FR908, FR9854 & EI724. The EZY788 had just got out beforehand. What a sight it would have been to have the 4 Londons boarding together!

So many people's weekend travel plans were so disrupted on a busy Friday. What a shambles the state of Cork Airport is in when the weather goes bad! Whatever it takes, money, earthworks, etc a CATIII landing system just has to be insisted on for Cork Airport.

You know what was funny? An RE from DUB was late due to the Dublin weather and in the end they had to give out food vouchers to the outbound pax to DUB. Good, says you but guess what - by the time the Coffee Cuisine shop at Cork closed the vouchers would only be redeemable at Dublin Airport!

[ryan2000]

Rumour has it that Cork Glasgow may get a jet service for the Winter. Loganair are withdrawing from the route in late September.

[buzzmebaby]

Who would be providing a jet service?

[WOWBOY]

Rumour has it that Cork Glasgow may get a jet service for the Winter. Loganair are withdrawing from the route in late September.

Well I recently sent an e-mail to flyglobespan about a Cork-Glasgow serivce (as the have a where would you like us tyo fly to option), they replied back and said that they have Put Cork-Glasgow on the Future Route/ Destination List. So It could be Flyglobespan!


If not then wat other Carriers would operate the route?

[NCLRULES]

Rumour has it that Cork Glasgow may get a jet service for the Winter. Loganair are withdrawing from the route in late September.

Ryanair Cork - Glasgow (Prestwick) :hmm: ?

[buzzmebaby]

I took that Glasgow flight about 12-15 times last year, and it was full only about 3 of those times. That's on a c.30 seat turboprop, what chances are there of filling of 737-8?!

[ryan2000]

The Loganair fare structure was a throwback to the pre low cost days. I know many people who prefered to drive to SNN and fly low cost with Ryanair to PIK. If they can sustain SNN-PIK on a daily basis then a Cork flight is a no brainer.

It appears that one airline is taking a close look at it for winter 06/07.

[buzzmebaby]

You're right, it was expensive. It sometimes worked out cheaper to go RE to Edinburgh and get a taxi to Glasgow!

[eick320]

What about ei opearting the route .. i thought somebody said earlier that the ei winter programme is missing 1 uk route !!!!!!!! After all with the 40 min turnaround its only a 3 hr rotation

[Tom the Tenor]

Bet the Cork-Dublin Aer Aranns and Ryanairs are all jammed today because of the lightening unofficial strike by the Irish Rail train drivers at Cork's Kent Station and Dublin's Heuston Station not wanting to take out and use the new trains.

Ryanair will not be able to make as much out of it as they would like due to their dropping of the early morning Dublin flight for the winter. It is an opportunity though for Aer Arann for some publicity and would coincide well with their order today for new aeroplanes. Another flight on Cork-Dublin for the course of this strike?

Either way it looks like Aer Arann are going to reclaim Cork-Dublin in the fullness of time.

[840]

840...the only way that Cat3 will ever be installed on the main ldg rwy being 17 is a major and I mean major reconstruction of the threshold area of 17. This will mean rwy closure and rwy 25/07 is not an option for a320/737 operations except in howling winds on the nose.
In conclusion, forget Cat 3, its pie in the sky and will remain so for the forseeable future. You will remain discommoded on foggy days. thats the plain reality of it.
So, 25/07 would have to be extended first. Which raises the question of whether it would be possible to extend 25/07, install Cat III and turn that into the main runway.

Obviously in 2070 when the debt has finally been cleared :-(

[840]

Interesting story in this morning's Examiner.

It looks like they expect the DAA to receive €200m for the sale of Great Southern Hotels.

http://www.examiner.ie/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=business-qqqm=business-qqqa=business-qqqid=3479-qqqx=1.asp

[NC2]

This is the same story that appeared in the Sunday Business Post last Sunday, however it omits the comment that the proceeds will be required to fund the expansion plan at Dublin Airport.

[840]

NC2

That was my point to an extent. Dividing up on the number of passengers, Cork would be entitles to €25m of that money, which would make a nice start to repaying the debt.

Incidentally, Thomas Crosbie Holdings own both The Examiner and The Sunday Business Post, so it's not surprising that they re-heat each other's stories.

[Tom the Tenor]

Aer Arann's decision to move from Angers to Nantes is generally pretty welcome. Nantes worked out fine for GX (Sniff, sniff!) so it should be okay for RE and it has the added spark of sniping away at the FR snn Nantes operation and as we all know every passenger counts!

News from the asylum (Cork!) is that two busses were hired today to help out in the boarding of a Titan Boeing 757 on a charter to Tarbes for a Lourdes flight. The weather was shockingly wet here in Cork all morning so the hiring of the busses has been most welcome. The thing is though the weater has cleared up nicely in the last while so the geniuses will have to fork out for the bussess whether they were used or not! At least they are now sticking to the boy scouts motto of Bi Ullamh! Small steps!

Has anyone any update on the opening of the new terminal? Time is moving on and we are getting near the peak or is it the 'pake!' ;)

[ryan2000]

Tom the Tenor

I doubt if anyone knows when the new terminal is going to open least of all the Cork Airport Authority. My guess and its only a guess is October.

[Tom the Tenor]

A guess at October? Oh, crumbs! Guess they could always do a Beauvais on it and erect a few tents? Where though or would it be better to leave well enough alone and carry on as they are now?

Today's Cork Evening Echo is leading with the story that one of the the rugby flights will be operating to Birmingham rather than to Cardiff as noted above and how dissatified the fans are with the situation. Cardiff Airport is claiming all the available slots were full since 3rd May for the match and they were fulfilled on a first come, first served basis. The flight (Corse Air 747) will be departing Cork at 7 am on Saturday and returning from Birmigham at 11 pm that night with coach transfer to & from Cardiff. The fans are giving out that they will be unable to soak up much of the atmostphere in Cardiff.

A fair enough gripe, I suppose, but I just hope that the fans are able to start their flights from Cork rather than from you know where! We all know what the local weather can be like at Cork!

[Shanwickman]

October.....but any mention of what year?

[hafez]

On my way home today, in the pouring rain I may add, I heard too business type people talking about the terminal opening on the 21st or 28th of June as some of the shops inside there are anxious to open and are thinking of training staff elsewhere and then a quick run aroun :confused: :confused: :confused: At this stage they were wondering as to why I was standing next to them and I started to fiddle with my fone as I walked away. Now, If I'm wrong or they were just talking BS don't blame me!! Just said I would post it anyway :) I'm hoping it is all for real - I'm travelling out on the 28th, would love if it opened then :D

[hafez]

Just an update on the munster rugby final from todas echo:
"All special rugby charters on the day will operate from the "North Terminals" adjacent to the Cargo Depots"
blah blah blah (sercurity crap)
"There will be limited catering facilities at the "North Terminals"
"Scheduled Flights and Holiday charters will operate as usual"
"ALL ARRIVALS operate as normal through the main terminal"
So does this mean that the new terminal will be open for the day :eek: or is it going to be some stupid tent that has been talked about :yuk:
And here are the updated times with thanks to corkspotter :ok:
Also let's hope for us spotters that 35 is in use as it is going to be very busy up by the cargo bay and with the multistory car park in use it will prove hard to get in to the place for a space on the top. :ok:

SATURDAY
FLT FROM STA STD FLT TO ACFT
XLA770P MAN 0425 0525 XLA770 BRS 737-800
MON056P LGW 0445 0600 MON8057 BRS A300
XLA175P NCL 0450 0550 XLA784O BRS 737-800
MON8038P CWL 0700 0800 MON8038 CWL A300
CRL040 ORY 0700 0800 CRL841 CWL 747-400
FJE912P LGW 0725 0830 FJE912 CWL 767-200
MON8020P CWL 0730 0830 MON8020 CWL 767-300
BE082P BHX 0740 0820 BE8003 CWL 146-300
MPJ999P DUB 0800 0900 MPJ9991 CWL MD83
DBK487 BRS 0840 0930 DBK488 BRS MD83
VLM883P MAN 0915 1000 VLM883 CWL FK50
VLM884 CWL 2135 2200 VLM884F MAN FK50
FJE913 CWL 2210 2300 FJE913P LGW 767-200
BE8004 CWL 2215 2245 BE8004P BHX 146-300
MON8039 CWL 2225 2355 MON8057P LGW A300
MON8021 CWL 2255 2355 MON8021P LGW 767-300
MON8056 CWL 2255 2355 MON8056P LGW A300
CRL842 CWL 2340 0405sunday CRL043 ORY 747-400
SUNDAY
DBK491 BRS 0130 0220 DBK492 BRS MD83
XLA771 BRS 0130 0225 XLA772P MAN 737-800
DI432P TXL 1315 1400 DI433 TXL 737-300 xtra charter
DBK493 BRS 1420 1510 DBK494 BRS MD83
MPJ9997 CWL 1600 1645 MPJ997P CWL MD83
MON Monarch
FJE Flyjet
DBL Dubrovnik airline
CRL Corsair France
DI Deutche BA
XLA Excel Airways
VLM VLM Airways.

[ryan2000]

The so called North Terminal is a combination of a tent and the DHL and TNT warehouses.

In fairness the Cork Airport Authority are doing their best in very difficult circumstances. In my view it would help their cause if senior figures spoke directly to the media about the airport as was the case in the past.

At least we would then be clearer about the situation.

Forget about the new terminal for the forseeable future. Hopefully the truth will eventually emerge about why this project has taken so long to come to fruition.

[Tom the Tenor]

ryan2000, that last paragraph of yours is left hanging so tantalisingly - it just cries out for more discussion/revalation!?

Yes, it beats me why the crowd at the top at Cork are so reluctant to speak out. Some plain speaking on the airport would do no harm. Of course, they may be just toothless, clueless or both and are happy to take the calculated gamble and say nothing knowing that the likes of Sean Citizen don't care too much as long as there is not daily fog and lashing rain to spoil their flight to Santa Ponsa! Perhaps, the DAA and the political masters like it that way too? Why rock the boat - they can still knock off every day at 5 pm and later draw the pension whether there is the business or not?

Maybe, they are just disheartened? Cork Airport can be a very vexing place!

[Tom the Tenor]

Well, the drama at Cork has well and truely begun. All the cross channel flights to England and Wales have been jammed since last night with some Cardiff bound rugby fans even taking the bmi baby flight to Durham Tees Valley to get them on their way to the ultimate destination in the Welsh capital for the big game!

There have been a lot of bizjet arrivals yesterday and today too and just now in last little while runway 25/07 has been closed and a Cessna 560 is due to position from Stand 2 to the threshold of runway 07 for overnight parking. Even the local aircraft from Atlantic Flight Training, the two Cessna 172s and the Piper Seneca are all lined up to cross the Irish Sea tomorrow for the game.

The weather forecast from 4 pm to 8 pm was giving a met viz of 400 metres but so far The Pox of Cork has been kept at bay. Long may it last!

[hafez]

Tom,

You may be able to confirm if the 744 is definetly now changed to 0545? Hopefully not!

Thanks

[Tom the Tenor]

Tonight's EZY788 returned to Cork after take-off with a pressurisation problem. Aircraft landed safely and parked in Stand 17 no less and is, thankfully, just getting underway again back to Gatwick. If she had needed to stay for a few more hours the parking arrangements for the widebodies for early Saturday would have been in a heap!

No known update on the Corse Air 747. Still 7 am arrival is as much as I know.

[hafez]

Got some info from someone working up at the airport and he has the new arrival times for tommorow, the Corsair is now coming in at 0545 and leaving at 0700

[eoinok]

Well from what I remember, it left at about 9am :)
Pretty impressive sight. I was surprised too by the early rotation. She rotated nearly as she corssed 25/11!!!!

[Tom the Tenor]

Yesterday, Saturday, 20th May, 2006 was for once memorable for all the right reasons at Cork Airport. The morning's operations for the rugby charters both landside and airside worked well and credit where credit is due to all the people and staff that brought it all together on the day. Some folk had reported for duty on the night before and were still on duty at 9.30 am Saturday and even after all that remained in good spirits.

It was kind of sad to see the new terminal all but ignored for the operation. A big marquis was set up for the rugby check-ins on the ground floor at the back of the new multi storey car park and passengers went airside through the DHL, TNT and EMC facilities. If you like, Terminals 3, 4, 5 & 6 with the 200 million Euro Terminal 2 left out in the cold. What a pity!

Clearly, things went wrong with the boarding of the Monarch Boeing 767 as all the pax had to be disembarked again from the aircraft after boarding! That looked terrible all right. I have no idea how that problem occured but I presume the pax who boarded the 767 were meant for the second A300-600 flight later in the morning? However, it was good to see the result of some lateral brain application to get around Cork's red line problem by the new terminal for anything bigger than a 757 as the 767 was pushed tail in to the stand rather than by the nose! A Cork solution to a Cork problem!

Cork's Evening Echo on Saturday evening made a big thing of the 767 disembarkation going on about chaos at Cork Airport in banner headlines but I think their take was unfair because all other operations seemed to work out fine without any other major hitches. Top marks all around and my score for the morning would be 9/10 with just the one point being lost for the 767 boarding cock-up.

The Flyjet 757 arrived a good hour or more earlier than she ought to and at the time she had to shut down just off Taxiway Alpha as both Excel 737s, the Monarch A300 and the Verona bound Pegasus 737-400 on a hire in for Eirjet were all still on the ground so the packed ramp was quite an impressive sight. Runway 25/07 was closed too with two Aer Arann ATR parked at the 25 end and the Citation 560 was at the 07 end adorned with temporary floodlights for company for the night hours.

The Corse Air 747-400 was a wonderful sight and made the day at Cork Airport. She landed on 35 and exited at Alpha where she was then push-backed to that new stand, Stand 17, is it? She was loaded fairly quickly and all told she had 571 outbound passengers aboard for the short flight to Birmingham. What a huge load on one flight! The take off from 35 was great and as noted above she was airborne just after the intersection. That was great and she looked fabulous. Some very lucky and privileged passegers had a great treat.

A good few other bizjets and turboprops dropped in for their VIPs and along with the FlyBe BAe146 (RJ?), the two MDs from Aviajet and Dubrovnik Airline Cork Airport had a great, great day. Does not come much better than that!

Good to see some of Cork's top brass on the ground taking a real interest in the day's goings on. If I am not careful I may have to begin registering the odd note of optimism for Cork Airport's future! :D

[ryan2000]

Management and staff at Cork must be complimented for the way they handled the massive influx of visitors for the weekend. A total of 9 widebody flights operated. There is also evidence in recent weeks that the negative attitude towards Corporate Jets and General Aviation is changing.

Has it finally hit home that forcing aircraft to park at Kerry and Shannon when there are stands free at Cork results in a loss of revenue and a lack of confidence in the airport by investors and visitors.

Closing Runway 25/07 was also a help as this runway is no longer of any use to commercial operations with the exception of Aer Arann and even they rarely use it.

[CCR]

Yesterday's Sunday Business Post had a story that Delta Airlines are in talks with Cork, Kerry and Belfast airports about commencing transatlantic services to these airports. This is in addition to Delta increasing their services to Dublin and Shannon. Lets hope these talks develop into new routes!

[lm06]

it's great to see cork so well covered by such a knowledgeable and passionate bunch on this site. thanks to ye all.

i pass through fairly regularly from the uk
have they sorted the flyover down at the bottom of the hill yet ?

[Tom the Tenor]

Will post on the flyover tomorrow. Too tired now. We can have a few more laughs then!

[mckrll]

No, the roundabout/flyerover is still a mess. It will be great when it finally opens.

I'm interested that nobody mentioned the Sea King of 771 Squadron, RNAS Culdrose (SAR Ops) that was based at EICK over the weekend. 771 was here for Sea Sunday in Kinsale and an exercise that took place in Kinsale's outer harbour on Saturday (though covered by a press embargo which meant that most people missed a great show).

Amusingly the battery cover at the front carries their emblem - a black shamrock (actually the ace of clubs).

Andrew

[buzzmebaby]

The flyover will be completed in October.
I actually find traffic ok since construction started as many people are avoiding the roundabout.

[Tom the Tenor]

Yes, the RN Sea King should have got a mention but my ommission shows how changed operations are now at Cork compared to times past when a Sea King's arrival would have up to date news blaring out on Cork Airport FM! The commercial traffic at Cork is now the life blood and in the fluidity and drama of the rugby airlift the poor Sea King was forgotten. I had thought she and her crew were resting up after a SAR operation.

The work on the flyover at the Kinsale Road (Magic) Roundabout has been continuing apace. The bridges are in place at what will be both the east and west exits to the N25. Most of work now looks like the filling in of earthworks in preparation for the new roads leading up and down from the bridges. The timescale is something I am not sure of but popular opinion says the project is ahead of schedule. The congestion is a little bit less now at the roundabout but it is somewhat smoke and mirrors as the bottleneck at rush hour is now further back towards the airport at the dangerous junction by Bull McCabes bar where there are new traffic lights. From the safety point of view the traffic lights are very welcome in my opinion.

Last Sunday the excitement did not cease at Cork Airport. Apart from the welcome return of the rugby fans there were two fab visitors, a DH Dove and a Portuguese TriStar on a hire in for Eirjet(?) to Faro. Also, it was like olden times between the airport and the terminal with the roads jammed up with traffic due to relations coming to collect loved ones off the rugby flights mixing with the busy weekend comings and goings.

Even last night the nostalgia continued as TNT had to hire in an Air Atlantique Electra in place of the usual BAe 146. Finally, all the signs are indeed there that Cork Airport is once again becoming more welcoming to corporate visitors - today so far and yesterday has seen the arrival of a lot of bizjet traffic. :)

[lm06]

there used to be a live ATC feed from the airport
on ATClive.com though i never heard it

any idea why that's not operational ?

[lm06]

sorry liveatc.net

[hafez]

there used to be a live ATC feed from the airport
on ATClive.com though i never heard it

any idea why that's not operational ?

Its a friend of mine that ran it. Basically, he now has no spare computer to run it from. It may return in the future but don;t hold your breath :ugh:

[lm06]

is it an expensive thing to run....is it just an audio feed from a receiver in the vicinity ?

[hafez]

well its pricy because of electricity keeping the pc on 24/7. Its really just a scanner hooked up though but he uses it alot outside of his house aswell now so I cant see it coming back soon - Will keep you updated though

[brian_dromey]

a Portuguese TriStar on a hire in for Eirjet(?) to Faro.

Are this shower up to their old tricks again????
Last summers holiday was tainted badly by EIR, and the lies to cover up why things went so badly wrong....everything form bird strikes, to non existant fog! Flight delays of up to twelve hours were the norm at ORK and SNN last summer.

Last time I checked, a three plane schedule can not be flown with a single clapped out A320 which seemed to shed parts at every possible oppertunity.

Mind you, I did have pleasure of flying on a hired in Air Luxor A330 outbound! Had to find our own way home.....U2 via LGW! If your flying with these...make sure you can find another way home.

Seriously...who was mad enough to give them a contract to operate flights this summer, after last summers ordeal. Oh ya, they find it hard to differentiate between dissused military airfields and busy international airports. Marvelous!

[Shanwickman]

Yes I too am surprised at the amount of contracts they have picked up.
They supply capacity to Sunway, Topflight, Stein, Sunworld, Slattery, Omni Tours and First Choice (Falcon/JWT).

Budget sticking with old reliable Futura.

[brian_dromey]

They supply capacity to Sunway, Topflight, Stein, Sunworld, Slattery, Omni Tours and First Choice (Falcon/JWT).

I reckon most of the services are shared with first choice, like on the zacinthaos(or how ever the boloody place is spelt) last year.

Im surprised at Slattery though...they used spanair last year...I whish First Choice did. What ever happened to the skyservice/FCA based A320??(summer 2004) It might not have been comfortable, but it did go on time!

[Tom the Tenor]

Not so sure the TriStar was doing an Eirjet flight -think she was operating for Flightline whomever they may be. The same flight on the previous week was operated by a Monarch A320.

Will this rain ever lift!!??

[airhumberside]

Flightline are a long established BAe 146 charter operator, based at Southend. They are best known for oil industry flights between Aberdeen and Scatsa (Shetland). Think they are also using a MD-83 on some flights this sunmmer

[Tom the Tenor]

A wee update for which I am thankful for the info. The Monarch A320 to Faro which I mentioned above was in fact doing a separate Panorama flight. Flightline had been hiring in a Spanair MD83 for their flight to Faro over the past few Sundays but last Sunday's flight was flown by the Luz TriStar, CS-TMP.

The same TriStar had previously made a visit to Cork in May 2002 in the colours of Air Luxor for the Heineken rugby final at Cardiff which Munster lost.

That loss of course is now all but forgotten! :}

Munster Abu!

[Tom the Tenor]

Well, if it is Sea Kings you are interested in Cork Airport saw the arrival of two aircraft overnight. A fishing boat bound for Castletownbere got into trouble off the southwest coast of England and two Sea Kings were scrambled to the scene on a SAR operation. Some of the boat's crew were rescued by passing ships but one poor man died and his remains were recovered by HM Forces to Cork University Hospital early today. RIP to the poor fisherman and respect to the helicopter crews whom put themselves in harms way to help save lives.

Local radio, 96FM, are reporting that last weekend was the busiest ever at Cork Airport with over 36,000 pax handled on Friday, Saturday and Sunday! Sunday created a new record with 14,453 passengers passing through over the full day. A super achievement for Cork Airport. Onwards and upwards!

Heard a good one from last night. The ramp was fairly busy and the EI723 had to park at Stand 8 so she was a little out of place to her more usual semi-regal spot at Stand 5. Some of the awaiting relations were a little put out by the aeroplane's semi-remote parking spot leading to a little confusion as to the flight's true identity whether or not it was the London flight.

The remarks from the wating relations were choice and are richly unique to Cork and in keeping with the airport's 45 year old colourful social history. For example, you could hear in that sweet, lilting Cork accent: "Is dat her?" "Dat's an awful long walk!" "I cant see her!" The best though was, "Dat's not her at all!" Where else would you get it!?

It is sad to think that after nearly 45 years beautiful and loving remarks like those above will disappear once Cork Airport's new terminal opens with there being no where planned for the airport's meeters and greeters to gather and view affectionately the arrival home of their loved ones to Cork which has been so much a part of the fabric and sociability of our beautiful airport.

The tears are flowing freely now.

[westcorkman]

Cork terminal being kept by the contractor as no one can now afford to pay for it .. or a variation on that theme? OH NOOOOOO:}

[Tom the Tenor]

Hot news. Cork Airport is set to get it's first series of sun charters to Egypt next winter. Panorma Holidays are to begin charter flights to Sharm El Sheikh with the series beginning towards the end of December just in time for Christmas in the sun! No details yet on what airline will be working the flight!

The Mrs has pals who go there every winter from the UK so that must be a good sign. Would a ORK-SSH flight by an A320 be pushing the range? What about a 737-800?

A nice looking Global Express bizjet arrived in Cork at lunchtime today. Sad to report that she left shortly after for snn for a few day's parking. Why? Last weekend's super effort at Cork Airport proved that so much is possible. So much lost business there in the parking of a large bizjet along with a new terminal to pay for?

Hmm! :ugh:

[hafez]

Tom the Tenor

Yay, Sharm is lovely. Best time to go is april or october :) I'd say a 738 would be grand for the trip although a 757 would probably be smarter if flights went out once a week. We will soon see I suppose. Let's just hope Panorama don't use Eirjet :p

[ryan2000]

Did it ever dawn on someone to construct a small parking area for executive jets and other small aircraft. Cork must be losing a small fortune in parking fees by turning away so many customers.

Such a move would be self financing in a short time but of course the DAA would probably say NO given that the latest bill for the new terminal is 20million more than they even recently anticipated.

Dermot Mannion spoke at a function in Cork this morning. No specific details. Fair play to Aerlingus for basing 4 Airbus 320's here this Summer. They deserve support from the Cork public. More good news from that quarter for the winter is likely if all goes well.

[MarkD]

Sharm?

Are they selling helmets and flak jackets in duty free as well?

[hafez]

Just to update everyone on the liveatc.net stream of Cork ATC. It is now back up and running on a temporary basis and may possibly go 24/7 soon. All will be revealed asap :)

[Global Pilot]

"Cork to Egypt!
Hot news. Cork Airport is set to get it's first series of sun charters to Egypt next winter."

Excel might be a possible contender with a/c due to based in IRL for summer 07. From the avion group web site.."The company will provide short, medium and long haul charter services for Irish tour operators and travel retailers commencing in the May-October 2007 holiday season. Target routes from Ireland will include Florida, Mainland Spain, the Balearics, Canary Islands, Portugal, Greece, Bulgaria, Turkey, Cyprus and Egypt."

Full text below:

http://www.aviongroup.com/index.aspx?GroupId=37&TabId=41&NewsItemID=279&ModulesTabsId=50

rgds,

GP

[Tom the Tenor]

The month of May was marvellous at Cork Aiport - must have been the best ever during the airport's 45 year history. June is beginning just as well today and in glorious sunshine as there are no less than seven pilgrimage flights bound for Lourdes. The ramp has been jammed with airliners over lunchtime with four aircraft from Futura doing some LDE and sun ITs along with two Airbus from Air Mediteranean and items of the scheduled traffic all packing the tight ramp. So full that even an ATR of Aer Arann had to wait with engines running for a sistership or the LOG to depart before getting a stand herself to park!

Regretably, there is a fly in the ointment for Cork Airport. It now looks like easyJet are dropping their early morning rotations from Gatwick on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays and some Sunday morning flights until near the end of July when all are reinstated only to drop the evening flight for the month of August. Then, in September, bizarrely both flights are fully restored once again, at least for now.

Next week will be worse. The late evening FR907/8 from Stansted disappears from Wednesday until the start of September before being restored again but how long it stays like that is anyone's guess bearing in mind the turn things are now taking on the Cork-London routes. The Aer Lingus schedule is thankfully unchanged and remains at five daily to Heathrow through the summer.

Take note the Ryanair cutbacks on Liverpool - Cork comes into play shortly too with flights down to 4 weekly with KIR picking up the other three flights. The RYR winter schedule for LPL-ORK puts the aeroplane into Cork very late in the evening so late as to make it quite an unattractive prospect. Hard to figure out why Ryanair are doing this to the route - whatever it is the service aint gonna work too well with those timings. That is only an opinion of course and what do I know anyway!?

However, there is a lot there now for the management team at Cork Airport to think on with so much business about to be bled away from the airport over the next three months during the peak travel period. Turning away bizjets from Cork to snn and KIR for parking answers nothing when there is a new terminal to pay for and fill with passengers.

[ryan2000]

The 4th EI320 will more than offset the above mentioned negatives. In any event there is probably enough capacity on London in mid week to offset the bizarre decisions of FR and EZY to cutback during the peak season after going to war on the route through the winter and Spring.

I believe that a Scandanavian destination is very high on Cork's wish list.

A full service airline could feed into SAS' vast network and into the Baltic City's of Vilnius Tallinan and Riga none of which are served directly from Cork. Watch this space.

[asianfly]

Surely ORK could lay a bit of concrete somewhere and create a few parking stands for biz jets! Am sure Readymix or John A Woods would only be too willing to oblige. Seriously though, it would not be too difficult to do, especially if the gang of consultants and engineers who are responsible for the still to be opened terminal are kept as far away as possible. There is plenty of room at the airport so there is no reason aside from lack of initiative and bureaucracy to stop such a course of action. Mind you, getting an airside bus to ferry passengers to distant stands when raining out of the heavens is still too much for ORK management to get their heads around.

[840]

Regretably, there is a fly in the ointment for Cork Airport. It now looks like easyJet are dropping their early morning rotations from Gatwick on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays and some Sunday morning flights until near the end of July when all are reinstated only to drop the evening flight for the month of August. Then, in September, bizarrely both flights are fully restored once again, at least for now.

Reading some of the other threads on this forum would suggest that the primary reason for this is a lack of flight crew at Easyjet.

[CCR]

My guess is that if EI announce more routes from Cork this year, the posibilities would be to Madrid, Villnius, Riga and Glasgow. I guess we'll have to wait & see.

[Tom the Tenor]

Not sure if it is a sign or not but our dear friends in Eirjet are working away on another Madrid related theme this weekend. Am hearing that tomorrow's EIR flight to Verona is due to be operated by a hire in from none other than Air Madrid. Nice one.

Thanks, 840, had not considered the driver situation at easyJet. Interesting point. So, it is not only Ryanair that are gagging for crew all the time these days.

[brian_dromey]

Mind you, getting an airside bus to ferry passengers to distant stands when raining out of the heavens is still too much for ORK management to get their heads around.

Its not actually the CAA who provide the busses, its up to Servisair/Aer Lingus and Sky to provide the coach, and the airlines have to pay for it, with walking distance to short at ORK they dont see any need to provide the service. Simple as.

[ryan2000]

My guess is that if EI announce more routes from Cork this year, the posibilities would be to Madrid, Villnius, Riga and Glasgow. I guess we'll have to wait & see.


I think you've got at least 2 out of 4 right CCR.

[hafez]

Would love to see Munich back on the list, Didn't think it was doing too bad to be honest and I doubt Berlin is doing as well as Munich did.

Maybe a connection with Vienna could work?

[brian_dromey]

Sorry Tom.....I dont think that Air Madrid operate the 767?? A319s, A310 A330s and even A340s, airbus only I think....

By the way does anyone know when the terminal is due to open??? I m off to LGW on 29 Jun...any chance that it will be open by then? I have heard Jun 28 mentioned, is this still a possibility?

[hafez]

brian_dromey

They still dont seem to be doing anything about the debt so I think it will probably be after the summer unfortunately :bored:

[ryan2000]

Anyone know why The Hemus Air Charter from Bourgas diverted to SNN this morning although the weather was 10km+ at the time.

[buzzmebaby]

05 June 2006
Ryanair plane was 20 feet above houses, residents claim
By Niall Murray and Olivia Kelleher
RESIDENTS have said a Ryanair plane flew dangerously low over their homes on its way to land at Cork Airport yesterday.
One man living in the Halldene estate in Bishopstown said the aircraft, believed to have been inbound from London Stansted, passed no more than 20 feet over his neighbour’s roof.
“I was at my kitchen window when I saw it turning outside, and it was dangerously low. I really thought we were in trouble.Denis O’Keeffe, living less than half a mile away in Cedar Grove, said he and family members were in the back garden when the plane flew over at 5.50pm.
“It was like a thunderous noise but very sudden, it was about the height of two houses off the ground. It was turning at a 90-degree angle heading for the airport,” he said.
Several complaints were received by the duty office at Cork Airport last night but a Ryanair spokesperson said the company had no concern about the flight.
Bishopstown is in the flight path for many services landing at Cork but residents insisted this plane was much lower than aircraft usually fly over their homes.
Meanwhile, up to 90 holidaymakers were stranded at Cork Airport for more than 20 hours over the weekend after their flight had to turn around.
Passengers were due to fly to Las Palmas Airport in the Canary Islands on Saturday. Their plane took off at 10am but was forced to return to Cork because of technical problems.”

Is this the most overblown non-story ever? Does the fact that Halldene/Bishopstown is below runway level count for anything?

[ryan2000]

Is this the most overblown non-story ever? Does the fact that Halldene/Bishopstown is below runway level count for anything?

20 feet over the houses in Bishopstown and Cork Airport 55O ft above sea level, give us a break!

I believe there were hilarious scenes at the Airport last night when a CSA 320 arrived from PRG instead of the usual 735. It initially was directed to stand 3 but of course that is no longer considered to be suitable for 320's.

So off it went back on to the main runway and around to a stand normally used by Malev.

When Malev arrived it to was forced to move from stand 4 to stand 14.

No mention of the fact that DC10's once parked on stands that are now considered too small for A320's and B737-600'S ! That was in the 1990's when common sense prevailed over red tape!

[Tom the Tenor]

It has been a controversial weekend at Cork Airport. In the Aer Lingus thread ryan2000 has all ready noted the delay in getting the Air Madrid/Bravo Air Congo Boeing 767-200 up from Madrid to Cork on last Friday night for Saturday morning's Eirjet flight to Verona. The Pegasus 737-400 also hired in for Eirjet on Friday evening was parked in Stand 17, the sole widebody stand so Cork could not receive the 767 until the 737 departed. This caused the delay in the 767's arrival at Cork until around 11 pm. Prior to this Stand 5 was free for about 1 hour, 40 minutes. Why was the Pegasus not parked on Stand 5 - was there not enough time to turn the aeroplane around? There ought to be? The 767 eventually left for Verona after overnight crew rest around 9.30 am on Saturday a few hours late.

On Saturday night the weather was again calm and warm. The Onur Air A321 to Bodrum had to opt for a runway 35 departure rather than 17 due to the calm conditions. This once again proves the compromise that is Cork Airport's marginal 7000 feet runway. The same thing happened again on Sunday morning for the Aer Lingus flight to Malaga. Any bit of calm weather and higher temperatures & pressure at Cork Airport brings airfield operations back to the 6000 feet runway era and the difficulties experienced by Aer Lingus BAC 1-11 and 737-200 operations ex Cork to the mainland Europe!

Even in recent times during the winter season the Futua Boeing 737-400s bound from Cork to Las Palmas are nearly always caught out and need to tech stop at Seville on the way south. This is caused mainly by the limitations of the Cork Aiport runway. This costs money and it is Cork passengers who pay the price in extra flight supplements on top of all ready high airport taxes and charges.

The Hemus flight diverted to snn due to tech fault with the aircraft and reports are that a long runway was needed. That is as much as I know. I would dearly like to know more.

On Sunday night the Czeck Airlines flight was operated by an Airbus A320 for the first time and of course this caused a big ree raa on the ramp! The A320 eventually had to park in Stand 14. The Malev 737-600 was initially put in Stand 4 but was later forced to move eventhough the Czeck and bmi baby 737-500 and -300s park regularly in Stands 2, 3 & 4! Does the Malev wing span go over the new 'road' markings on the ramp? It is not that long ago when Cork had Air Libertee A300-600s in Stands 2 to 5 along with the odd DC-10!

The evidence of the past weekend proves what a compromise airfield operations are at for airlines at Cork airport. The runway is just too short and needs a modest extension. Crikey, if a narrowbody Airbus or classic 737 cannot get off to Turkey or the Canaries without some form of restiction what chance is there for new medium or long haul destinations like New York or Egypt etc?

The ramp is also too small at Cork Airport and there are not enough stands for the present business not to mention trying to get any new business.

Cork Airport operations are no more than a circus at the moment. The new terminal fiasco is a complete joke. Our airport is a laughing stock and the deepest laughs are without doubt those on the west coast.

The bunch in charge at Cork Airport are doing nothing but kidding themselves. Trying to grow the business at the airport without improved airfield infrastructure will be a huge task. Losing so many EZY and FR services over the next three months also does nothing for the cause of Cork Airport.

The way things are going the hoped for 3 million passengers for 2006 will be hard got indeed.

[FlyCorkInternational]

EI will be adding Cork-Prague (3 weekly), Cork-Madrid (3 weekly) and Cork-Lanzarotte (1 Weekly) to their schedules ex Cork from October 2006. However the Nice route appears to have been dropped. Bookable on their web as from today. Interesting to see how Czech Air will react to this on thePrague route.

[Shanwickman]

Delighted to see ORK/ACE being added to schedule. Had a look at booking engine and it shows ORK/ACE available on Tuesdays and Saturdays.

[Tom the Tenor]

Have long been waiting for a Cork-Madrid service and am delighted it has at long last come to fruition. However, at the prices being asked for by Aer Lingus at around 185 euros each way making a taxes/charges inclusive fare of more than 400 euros it hard to see the plain people of Cork lining up board the three weekly flights. Looking forward to a good seat sale on that one! As it is EI must be hoping for a lot of business type pax to place their bums on the seats?

Prague is clearly opportunistic but is being priced equally high as Madrid and the flight has a late afternoon departure so hopefully good ol' CSA will not be compromised too much by the new Aer Lingus service. The early morning CSA departure from Cork ties in well with so many onward connection for folk travelling to a lot of eastern Europe, Russia and the middle east and EI will be out of the picture for those kind of passengers.

Lanzarote a winner, of course. Might even go there myself now!

There was a testy debate in the Dail last night on the new Cork terminal some of which was rebroadcast on this morning's Morning Ireland. Bernard Allen, FG was sniping away at Mr Cullen, the Minister for Transport. Mr Cullen is so getting fed up of the Cork terminal stuff. He said the terminal will be completed in a few days but would not be pressed on an opening date. There is no sign of any yield from him on the debt issue and he is not up for landing the bill at the door of the east coast multi national, the Dublin Airport Authority. Cullen is obviously browned off at the Cork Airport Authority. My impression is that he wants to blame the CAA for the terminal not opening.

Mr Cullen should have been in Cork last weekend. He would have been even more fed up with the airport's operations?!

[840]

I was seriouslyquestioning whether the Aer Lingus booking engine has had bad data entered. I randomly selected a trip to Prague from the 8th to the 12th of November on both Aer Lingus and Czech Airlines. EI came up as €428, OK was €209.

If that difference in prices persists and with the benefit of extra connecting traffic, OK have nothing to worry about.

ryan2000->Any more word on the potential Scandinavian service?

[asianfly]

This from the Irish Examiner today.


‘Outlook poor’ for late airport terminal, says Cullen

By Paul O’Brien, Political Reporter
TRANSPORT Minister Martin Cullen assailed the management of Cork Airport yesterday, saying its inability to open the facility’s new terminal on time represented “a poor outlook for the future”.

During ill-tempered exchanges in the Dáil, Fine Gael TD Bernard Allen demanded to know when the terminal would begin operating.

The development, officially costed at €160 million, has run over-budget and over-time, and was originally scheduled to open on May 10.

Mr Cullen said the terminal would be completed within the next few days, but couldn’t say when it would open.

“That’s entirely a matter for Cork Airport Authority, it’s not me,” he said, before adding: “If they can’t manage to open the blooming terminal after getting €200 million spent on it… that’s a poor outlook for the future, isn’t it?”

The final decision as to when the terminal will open rests with the Dublin Airport Authority (DAA). Until the three airports are separated, Dublin retains control over both Cork and Shannon.

A spokesman for the DAA stressed last night that it would make the decision in tandem with management at Cork. The DAA was now confident the terminal would open in early July, he added.

A spokesperson for Cork Airport Authority said management was extremely shocked and disappointed by the minister’s comments.

“The delivery and opening of the new terminal are completely outside the control of the CAA,” he said.

The break-up of Aer Rianta won’t occur until both the transport and finance ministers are satisfied as to the viability of plans for individual airports. A crucial issue in finalising those plans is the matter of the terminal debt at Cork.

Mr Cullen’s predecessor, Seamus Brennan, had pledged that Dublin would meet the full cost of developing the terminal. Both Cork and Shannon, Mr Brennan said, would begin life as independent entities free of debt.

However, the Government has since clearly signalled that it will renege on that commitment. Mr Cullen has argued it would be wrong to saddle the entire debt associated with the terminal on Dublin.

Pressed on the matter yesterday, he said: “The reality is that Cork want a debt in excess of €200m to be landed at the door exclusively of Dublin Airport ... It’s certainly not the position of Fianna Fáil in government to do that. We want a balanced outcome for the development of all of the airports.” He promised a conclusion on the issue in the coming weeks.

Mr Allen labelled reneging on the commitment, “a cock-up and betrayal of a promise”.

[840]

So, Cork Airport is mismanaged?

Well, who appointed the management team????

Seriously, what does Martin Cullen know about Bertie Aherne? Because between Voting Machines, Road Safety, Monica Leach and general Transportation Policy (not just aviation), this man does not deserve a role in his local cumann, never mind the cabinet.

[FlightDetent]

I believe there were hilarious scenes at the Airport last night when a CSA 320 arrived from PRG instead of the usual 735. It initially was directed to stand 3 but of course that is no longer considered to be suitable for 320's.
It stopped short of being truly remarkable as the tower controller intervened some 20 yards short of "B". Now, that could have been a free round trip of aerfoirt Chorcaí. :ugh: Not to mention the blank look on crews faces when they located 14 on their Jepp plates and after reentering via "A" they saw no-one but stand 18 label infront.:D
FD
(the un-real)

[Tom the Tenor]

I was a little hesitant the other day about it but, do you know what, Cork Airport is turning into the Clown Prince of Airports not only in Europe but worldwide. We have an unopened and unpaid for new terminal with just one airbridge, not enough ramp for bizjets and widebodies, a short runway with no CATIII ILS at what must be one of the most weather sensitive airports in Europe and dont be giving me Aer Rianta type waffle about the technical problems involved in it's installation. Then last autumn an airport management that were sucking up to Ryanair over the launch of Dublin(!) and Gatwick flights with the basing of the 'wan' 737 at Cork. Now, what have we but Ryanair showing their thanks to Cork and her passengers with a Harvey Smith decimating the Stansted and Liverpool services in the peak summer period. There is a rumor going around Cork in the last few days that MO'L is threatening to pull out of Cork due to the airport's high charges. Would it be any harm if they did go?

Contrast that with the committment Aer Lingus have shown to Cork in the last few days. :D

Flight Detent, how is the new terminal going at Ostrava? Is there a chance it might see use before the new Cork terminal opens? I would not be surprised if it does!

[eick320]

Totally agree the the new ei services are great news for the airport and the people of cork, however they need to look seriously at the pricing structures if the other comments are correct. But not all is good news from ei ..... as of the 7th august 2006 with the exception of the british bank holiday weekend the ei714 std 1440 a321 flt to lhr has been dropped ...... so all airlines on the london route will be dropping flts ....

[buzzmebaby]

Just had a go at Cork - Madrid and Cork - Prague and was able to get flights from €25-45 each way pretty much any day I desired...

Maybe it was a glitch soon after loading the flights to the system or maybe your guys aren't very good shoppers! :D

[FlightDetent]

Flight Detent, how is the new terminal going at Ostrava? Is there a chance it might see use before the new Cork terminal opens? I would not be surprised if it does!

I do not think it is really fair to compare.
http://www.airport-ostrava.cz/vykony-letiste.php

But the terminal should be ready for summer (that is charter) season. Generally, scheduled traffic to Ostrava is scarce.

FD
(mind the gap!):p

[Cyrano]

Just had a go at Cork - Madrid and Cork - Prague and was able to get flights from €25-45 each way pretty much any day I desired...
Maybe it was a glitch soon after loading the flights to the system or maybe your guys aren't very good shoppers! :D

It was the former, I believe. The same November flexible-on-dates search that gave me €185-195 a couple of days ago now gives me €25-45. Any "early adopters" foolhardy enough to book at the higher prices (if there were any!) are likely to be unhappy.

[Tom the Tenor]

Flight Detent, thank you for the update on the new terminal at Ostrava. I was having a giggle at work about it with a pal whom is from there - maybe Ostrava's terminal will be a little more modest than Cork's but I would not be too surprised to hear from you that unlike Cork there is a long runway there with good navaids etc?

It is a relief that the new Madrid service is now being more moderately priced for a trip and it looks like the plain people of Cork and Munster will in time be able to get in a visit. Looking forward immensely to that one! Puerta del Sol here we come!

What I am not looking forward to is how high the price of London flights are going to get over the summer and into the autum with Aer Lingus now too getting into the act of cancelling one of their Heathrow rotations from July, the EI713/4, the flight normally flown by the London originating Airbus A321. It is also looking more than likely that easyJet are to drop their Gatwick Ireland services including Cork from the end of Sepetember because their new schedule from Gatwick to Glasgow starting 2nd October is timed exactly on the Cork times so that outcome may be looking pretty grim?

The Cork London flights are being decimated this summer. If easyJet go how long will it be before Ryanair try to squeeze Cork for lower charges bearing in mind the higher fees due to be introduced at the airport from September? You can just imagine M O'L and his trusty side kick, Mr Cawley, dictating the terms to the bunch in charge at Cork threatening that if they do not get their way in lower charges that they would pull the airline out all together?

Instead of being out celebrating the new Madrid service the feeling is just one of more despair when it comes to Cork Airport.

[Tom the Tenor]

Heard an intersting one a while ago. The Irish Air Corps Learjet 45 arrived in Cork this afternoon with none other than Minister Cullen aboard. Have not heard about any other engagements the Minister was due to have in Cork so it looks like it may have been a top level meeting with the bunch in charge at Cork Airport. Wonder was he sucking up to the Cork crowd after his little "Poor outlook" remarks the other night in the Dail?

A nod has come my way too that the new teminal at Cork Airport has turned into a complete public relations collapse for the government. What should have been a great coup for the Fianna Fail/PD coalition is now nothing but a disaster and no credit whatsoever can be taken for the new terminal by the govenment parties! The latest rumor is that the DAA want Cork to open up the new terminal asap but it is now Cork that are holding things up! What an irony!

There are some more Lourdes pilgrimage flights due next Sunday and what is planned is that the Serviceair building (former Aer Lingus Cargo) is scheduled to be used as a terminal to process the pilgrim passengers. All this while the new termninal lies idle! Cork Airport, small airport, big heart - my ass!

Mad or what!?

[ryan2000]

There is no basis for saying that EZY are withdrawing from Cork. Their load factors and yields look quite strong there.

[FlyCorkInternational]

I fully agree that its by no means certain that EZY are withdrawing from Ireland. Their winter timetable is loaded in the website, but as of now it is unable to book any flights beyond September. You may recall that prior to the Summer schedule being uploaded, similar speculation was flying around as the schedules were late in being loaded. I feel here that EZY could be "waiting and seeing" what the competition do before finalising their own schedules. I hope this is the case as I would not like to see them withdraw.

[asianfly]

Tom - some interesting posts. My guess is that the new terminal will not open until a new election date has been set. Then, the politicos will be falling over themselves cutting ribbons and telling all and sundry how much they care about Cork Airport. The likelihood is that a decision on funding will be kicked to touch once again and they will come up with some half assed solution once again. This entire episode reflects poorly on everyone involved - the management at Cork, the project management people in charge of the new terminal, the head honchos at Dublin Airport Authority, and last not but not least, Minister for Transport Martin Cullen.

[asianfly]

This from today's Irish Examiner. Getting hot round the collar over the new terminal!

Bitter row in airport terminal delay as minister and management clash

A BITTER row has erupted between Transport Minister, Martin Cullen, and Cork Airport Board over who is to blame for delays in commissioning its troubled new €150m terminal.

Mr Cullen was formally challenged to apologise yesterday for comments he made effectively blaming the board for the delay in opening the new hi-tech terminal.

Cork Chamber of Commerce and Cork Business Association were stunned by "the ridiculous and outrageous comments".

Mr Cullen, replying to a Fine Gael query in the Dail, indicated that the future prospects for the new terminal are not encouraging if the board cannot even handle the opening schedule despite the investment.

A spokesman for the minister has since said the comment was borne out of the disappointment in not having such an excellent facility already available for public use.

But a Cork Airport Authority (CAA) spokesman dismissed the criticism - and pointed out that the new terminal's design, construction and commissioning acceptance is entirely a matter for Dublin Airport Authority.

A CAA spokesperson said they were "very disappointed" with Mr Cullen's comments.

"These comments are not helpful in the current situation. The management of the design and construction of the new terminal is, and always has been, the responsibility of the Dublin Airport Authority.

"Any suggestion that Cork Airport management is responsible for the continuing delays is completely inaccurate."

[Tom the Tenor]

What an atmostphere there must be! It is high time that President Bill Clinton and U S Senator Mitchell were wheeled in to help out in the negotiations on this one! Mind you, if geniuses at Cork did allow in our two heroes from the States they'd still have to reposition to snn or Kerry for overnight parking!

Well, I sure do hope that I am reading things wrong and that easyJet do stay at Cork Airport. The airport really needs easyJet to hang on as it gives a leverage in any talks with Ryanair putting some measure of manners on them and that has got to help. Still feel there is some scope for easyJet to have another route ex-Cork which EI have so far missed. Two easyJet routes with the right frequences would be a winner for the airline and also beef things up for the crowd at Cork which would make 'em look better!

All Ryanair want to do is fill their snn based aeroplanes and they are happy to take Cork passengers to do this?

[MarkD]

how much would it cost to put in enough remote parking to solve the current issues? Are there land availability issues or something?

[hafez]

MarkD

I think it would be a bad thing for Cork to be seen to add anything at the moment with the debt issue hovering over the heads of the CAA. It would probably be seen that if they went and built a nice new taxiway, installed CAT III or built a remote stand that they have enough money for the terminal themselves. :ugh:

[brian_dromey]

According to my calculations there ork-lon is down about 400 seats each way on last summer.
ie FR 738 4X STN@189
EI 320 5X LHR@174
U2 319 3X LGW@156
TOTAL = c.2100

This summer......:{
FR 738 2X STN
EI 320 4X LHR
U2 319 2X LGW
TOTAL c.1700!!!!!
this is on a daily basis...yields to LON this summer will be sky-high!

Interestingly enough EI are quoted as not having made a decision on CANX the 5th flight, but its gone from the system! I dont suppose EI will base an A321 instead of an A320, putting it on the LHR all day? Either way the extra EI capacity into europe does go some way to alleviate the drop to LON though c3400 seats per day extra.EI is about the only bright spot in the airports future,although the decision to take on CSA is a bit worrying, will other airlines bother introducing new routes, only to have EI scoop it all away?

[WOWBOY]

Does anyone know if there has been any interest by airlines to restart the Plymouth route?

:E

[ryan2000]

Aer Arann's presence on Newquay will probably rule out Plymouth Cork although the route operated successfully from 1975 to last March.

Aerlingus must be congratulated for their expansion out of Cork to so many European Cities. However Prague in competition with CSA could be a real dogfight. EI will have lower fares but CSA have better times and a vast array of connections. Should be interesting but Vienna or Kracow would have been preferable.

[lm06]

as a sort of postscript to a statement comment the spokesman for CAA said early July opening......was in the indo yesterday or friday
can't find the link but it's in the article as a throwaway line....as a sort of "oh by the way..."

[ryan2000]

im06

The CAA have been hopelessly wide of the mark with all of their opening dates for the new terminal.

Besides sources tell me that they don't want to open it untill after the Summer and that it's the DAA that are pushing for July.

[FlightDetent]

maybe Ostrava's terminal will be a little more modest than Cork's but I would not be too surprised to hear from you that unlike Cork there is a long runway there with good navaids etc?
Compared to Cork, it is humble. :E Well, the runway is 60 meters ..... wide and 4000 long. But most of all it is FLAT. :cool: As far as the navaids, it is dual ILS and dual VOR/DME. Don't be too harsh on Cork although I understand that weather does get VERY messy time to time, ILS / CAT II ILS is fairly good and give the size of airport and aircraft operating to it I suppose CAT III is not justifiable.

There is a maison perhaps a mile short of the runway 35, precisely on the centreline. Does anybody know how enthusiastic is the owner about the airport?

How long since Malev started flying to Cork? I do not remember seeing them year and half ago...

FD.

[Tom the Tenor]

Ostrava 4000 metre long. No problems there on hot days, then!

Sorry, unable to concede to you that Cork should be only to CATII standard. To do so and say CATII is fine for Cork gives away too much in terms of lost passegers and diversions to snn and Kerry. Cork passengers pay enough in taxes and charges and deserve to complete their flights at Cork and if that means a CATIII ILS well so be it!

Did you all see last Saturday's Irish Examiner? There is a story about the cutbacks on the Cork-London flights. It is a farce with EZY blaming the world cup for the pearing back of flights, RYR are blaming the airport's high charges for the cut in Stansted flights and that they are adding higher yielding extra Dublin-France flights to use up the capacity. This despite that the Stansted flights are flown by a Stansted aeroplane and new charges at Cork are not due until September. Aer Lingus are saying they are reviewing their Cork-London flights too but their schedule shows that the EI713/4 is simply gone from July.

I am sure the Cork Airport Authority has been up all weekend busily addressing the London flights issues! By the way, have a look at the Jet2 website. Newcastle-Cork not bookable after the end of October.

Turmoil!

Malev started end of April, 2005. Not sure whom lives in the house on the 35 centreline.

[840]

brian dromey->Your figures miss two FR rotations to Gatwick, so the real loss is around 50 seats. With the reduction in the number of passengers needing to connect in London (because of more direct flights) and the extra capacity to Amsterdam (encouraging connections there), it will essentially mean that capacity is around static on a year on year basis.

Does anyone know if there has been any interest by airlines to restart the Plymouth route?
:E

As mentioned by ryan2000, Aer Arann are unlikely to look at it because they already operate to Newquay. Given that they are the only local operator with aircraft capable of landing on Plymouth's runway, any candidate is likely to come from the other side of the water.

[hafez]

The new ad for Cork Airport was put up today.... Could this mean it is opening sooner than we think?
http://www.corkairport.ie/AR_Cork/Images/CONTENT/sbp28x5.jpg
http://www.corkairport.ie/AR_Cork/Images/CONTENT/sbp28x5.jpg

[lm06]

what's going to happen with the current building and control tower once the new terminal opens ?

(early july...go on !..early july)

[EI-MICK]

well the planning for the old terminal will expire,the control tower will remain,there was plans for a new ATc area across the other side of the airport buti dont think thats going ahead.

[buzzmebaby]

This issue about planning has been raised in the past without any concrete answers. Does anybody know for sure if the planning will expire? :confused: Is it a condition of the planning granted for the new terminal? Does it matter considering the glacial rate of change we see in Irish public sectors and the aviation sector in particular since they probably wouldn't do anything worthwhile with it if planning remained valid? :ugh:

Isn't that a lot of questions? Are they my feet...?

[840]

Aer Rianta (as it was then) didn'y complete an enivironmental impact assessment for the new terminal because it was replacing the existing terminal. This was to make the development of the new terminal faster!!

If the old terminal were to be re-used, a full EIS would be required first. On the basis of that, Cork County Council and An Bord Pleanala would decide whether the terminal would be reopened.

I wouldn't imagine that it would be a major problem, but it would take time.

[Tom the Tenor]

The new terminal has been very much tidied up in recent days so there may be a chance we may see it opened for use pretty soon. The bunch in charge are in bad need of a distraction when you consider the pearing back of the London flights in the peak summer period and a likely lonely winter ahead when Cork may see the end of schedules from Glasgow, Newcastle and it now looks like Leeds Bradford may be about to go the same way too.

What better distraction to all this woe other than to open the brand new terminal and to trumpet it as a new beginning for Cork Airport. Anything to get the attention away from the real issue of the UK market dwinling away so much. It was a a pretty dull and quiet terminal this evening after the boarding of the bmi baby to Birmingham and the EI and EZY to London. The FR907/8 is gone and the atmostphere in the terminal was vague and depressing with all the coffee shop tables and chairs being quickly tidied away and the place being left to the cleaner to get on with his work.

If it was not for the continued committment of Aer Lingus to Cork with the placing of a 4th A320 and the new routes to Berlin, Tenerife and Birmingham that are to begin in a few weeks along with more new flights to be added in the autumn to Madrid, Lanzarote and Prague the future of Cork Airport would be very, very grim indeed. There is no doubt about it that Aer Lingus are saving Cork from a disaster this year.

Whatever Ryanair's agenda is it has got little to do with Cork. Guess the filling of their aeroplanes at the snn base is much higher up their list of priorities than any committment they have to their passengers in Cork with the cutting back of so many Stansted and Liverpool services.

[ryan2000]

The fact is that Cork do not want to deal with Ryanair if it means having to reduce costs.

SNN has the best of both worlds. They've given Ryanair a low cost deal while their costs are sky high. I know they've tried to get their costs in order by offering extremely attractive redundancy packages to the staff, but why should the staff budge when they can enjoy the gravy train at least untill after the election.

Cork are fortunate that Aerlingus have been so positive over the last 2 years. Otherwise Ryanair would have them over a barrell.

One glimmer of hope is that JET 2 from NCL to Pisa and Bergen is also unbookable so maybe they are simply revising their winter timetable.

Heard that Riga, Villnius, Kracow and Glasgow are still on Aerlingus' Cork wish list.

[MarkD]

with SNN losing a big chunk of the mil traffic their beancounters must be getting more and more anxious!

[840]

According to the CAA, there were 2,793 passengers on Cork-Newcastle in April. That is about 90 pax per flight. I think I'm right in saying that Jet2 use 737-300s, although I don't know the configuration. In any case, the loads would appear to be below what's desirable, but acceptable for a new route. Obviously there's the usual proviso that we don't know the yields.

Incidentally, bmibaby carried 2,666 on the Durham Tees-Valley route with one rotation more per week. The indications are that there is definitely demand for one route to the North-East of England, but possiblty not for two.

Heard that Riga, Villnius, Kracow and Glasgow are still on Aerlingus' Cork wish list.

The Winter timetable has tightened up hugely on turnaround times and aircraft utilization etc. If they add them, one of three things will have to happen
-they'll need to base a further aircraft in Cork
-they'll need to drop frequencies on existing routes
-they'll need to operate some London flights with London-based aircraft

Obviously, the first is the most desirable, but with only two more 320s scheduled to arrive is not especially likely. The third option could be interesting, because it could assign extra capacity to Cork without the need to make it the full amount of capacity generated by one aircraft over an entire day.

[ryan2000]

They could manage Glasgow on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday with one of the existing 320's. However those dates mightn't be great in winter. Realistically the other routes would probably require a 5th 320 which is unlikely to happen this year.

Kracow is the one Polish destination that would generate outbound tourists as well as inward Polish workers.

It is being described as the new Prague and many City Breakers have been to the Czech Capitol since 2003 and are looking for a new destination.

Overall Aerlingus are very positive about Cork.

[hafez]

Just heard on the 96fm job thingy that " cork airport require customer service agents" and something else that i didn't catch, Is this leading up to the big opening or am I just getting my hopes up :*

[lm06]

2 questions:

is it the city or the county that covers the airport in planning terms

---------------
slight aside: what happened jetmagic a few years ago ?
weren't they the great white hope

[buzzmebaby]

It's the county.

JM went through too much cash early on, and by the time the routes were starting to turn a shilling they were out of money. They also persevered for too long with routes that weren't performing, because there were some v. good ones, but some v. bad ones!

[lm06]

...so even though the economics stacked up the investors' wills and bank accounts didn't ?...pity !

[eick320]

The latest news from the hill is from the 10th july the new terminal will open for arrivals ONLY !!!! . Then from the 17 july the building will open to sun charter departures ... allowing all sch traffic to continue using the current building. And eventually from approx the 24 july the building will open to all, airlines, handling agents etc. Can you just imagine the scene of arriving aircraft parking on a rainy day outside the new terminal ... the pax disembarking down the steps of the aircraft to begin the trek up the 40 or so steps to get onto the arrivals level, meanwhile the departing pax still using the current building having to walk up to stands 9,10.11,12 etc ....... crazy !!!! . Again this is the word from caa so i wont hold my breath

[ryan2000]

Same CAA that already have got it wrong about 7 times since last October.

It's the DAA that are putting the pressure on them to open it though I can see why the CAA are nervous about opening it at the peak time of the year given that there are bound to be teething problems with equipment etc.

[lm06]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2230537,00.html

[johnrizzo2000]

Cork will get new flights to Sharm El Sheikh this winter. Falcon holidays is the tour operator behind the new flights, i'm not sure which airline! Good news for Cork! The Dublin-Sharm El Sheikh flights have done really well, now being operated by First Choice Airways 757's!

[ryan2000]

The loss of Easyjet would be a serious body blow to Cork and Knock as Ryanair can now cut frequency on London routes.

In addition at Cork Loganair and BMI are withdrawing from Glasgow and Leeds and JET 2 has gone unbookable for the winter.

Not a great beginning to the opening of the new terminal. Increasing the charges may prove to be counter productive. Its the cost base they should be looking at ! That's what saved Aerlingus !

[suasdaguna]

its great to see AL have such a commitment to cork but there is a but. AL have no reserve cover for flight crews there as they are all dublin based and overnighting in hotels there. All it takes is two sickies and the operation is a shambles. With the arrival of a 4th a320 the exposure to the operation is even greater.

[MarkD]

suasdaguna

maybe with the new ex-cadet crew some will take a Cork base?

840

90 pax a flight - sounds like a job for a Flybe Embraer 190 :E

[eick320]

Plans are at a very a late stage in relation to opening a pilot base at ork. Senior skippers will transfer to the base however its not clear yet how they will fill the right hand seat positions, rumours have it that alot will be contract workers and the remainder will be the locally based lads who are from ork ... Looks like the clarion will be housing less ei crews from possibly next year on

[Tom the Tenor]

Heard that some passengers stood up for themselves at Cork yesterday around lunchtime. Futura had the Bravo Air Congo Boeing 767-200 hired in for a flight to Palma. It was just beginning to rain as she landed and by about half an hour later it was pouring down. Being a widebody the 767-200 was parked up at Stand 17, the sole widebody stand and the one furthest from the terminal. Then the boarding of pax began. Some of the pax were stuck in a queue on the steps and other pax refused to board the 767. I am told the Duty Manager was called and that is as much as I know but you can understand the feelings of the refusing pax with families of young children not wanting to take Cork Airport's long Walk of Shame in such inclement and wet weather. However, things must have been sorted as the 767 left some time later after 2 pm. Impressive take off from 17 throwing up a lot of spray on the take off roll.

The Morning Ireland RTE Radio 1 news programme has a special on Cork business tomorrow morning, Tuesday, 20th June, 2006 so get in your comments now on the present state of play at Cork Airport with regard to the terminal and it's costings and the upcoming loss of easyJet flights from Gatwick and the loss of revenue to the airport that this will bring.

[840]

The cessation of Easyjet services to Gatwick is disappointing, but at least there will still be a reasonable level of service to London (even if the prices will go up).

What has happened with UK regional services is considerably more depressing. Manchester is back to one daily having peaked at 5 daily. I'd be considerably happier with the 3x daily BA service than what is there at present. The twice daily Birmingham service from Aer Arann has been replaced with poorly timed flights from two different carriers. Plymouth is gone. Glasgow is going. NEMA has gone. Leeds-Bradford is going. Liverpool has reduced. Bristol has reduced. Cardiff has reduced.

The only two bright spots are Edinburgh, which is now up to 11 weekly and Durham Tees Valley, which will be going to daily in the Winter.

Up to now, it has been possible to hide behind increasing figures for flights to the European Mainland.

Time for airport management to start courting operators like Eastern and Air SouthWest?

[ryan2000]

Reports of Easyjet leaving Cork are wide of the mark. Load factors are quite good and they could sustain at least one return service a day during the winter. I'm told that no decision has been made in relation to their Cork services.

[Tom the Tenor]

Maybe there is a chink of hope if the bunch in charge at Cork have got the wind up 'em and are now scrambling around trying to save the day and are really trying to get easyJet to stay onside with some kind of service.

Otherwise, if all the predictions about autumn and winter losses come true it will be hard for Cork or any airport to ever get back that amount of capacity to the UK and then the CAA are facing in to an uncharted vista which can only end in job cutbacks?

Unlike anything else up there that might focus the ol' mind among the top brass at Cork?

[CCR]

So one 1 or 2 airlines are ceasing routes to Cork...they'll be replaced by other airlines. We saw that recently when Air Wales announced they were ceasing the Cork-Cardiff service, Aer Arann replaced them. I wouldn't be surprised if the same happened to Leeds Bradford and Glasgow routes.

[johnrizzo2000]

Hopefully EI starts DUB-GLA! They are finally showing an interest in ORK and realising there is money to be made there! I think a codeshare with RE on the Dublin-Cork route would make sense, so EI could connect PAX from Cork and onto EI's services to the US, Dubai and Europe! Although EI serves a number of routes ex ORK, it would offer ORK PAX an alternative and give put bums on seats ex DUB!

[840]

johnrizzo2000

I can't imagine that Aer Arann love Aer Lingus too much at the moment after they moved onto their patch with the services to BHX too.

[redout]

Taken from RTE

DAA warns on Dublin Airport's limitations

June 20, 2006 19:51
The Dublin Airport Authority needs to charge passengers a €7.50 tariff to ensure improvements planned for Dublin Airport are finished on time.

The DDA told the Oireachtas Transport Committee today that the current maximum tariff charge of just over €6 is too low.

Construction on a new terminal and runway at the airport is planned to begin next May and should be completed within 30 months.


Unless there is a new runway built at the airport, the DAA's CEO Declan Collier said they will have to turn planes away sometime between 2010 and 2012.

The DAA also told the committee that the sale of the Great Southern Hotels should be completed before the end of the year.

Also at that meeting, DAA chairman Gary McGann said that Shannon Airport was currently not financially viable and it would therefore take longer than originally thought to separate it from the control of the Dublin Airport Authority.

Under the State Airports Act, which broke up Aer Rianta, a viable business plan for each of the three state airports had to be demonstrated before they could function independently.

He said that military flights using Shannon Airport were masking underlying losses at the airport.

Meanwhile, the new terminal building at Cork Airport is due to open in July the Committee also heard today

[Tom the Tenor]

Looks like the new terminal will see some custom for the first time around 10th July, 2006 when inbound flights and passengers will be processed through the new terminal. A week later the IT flights will come and go via the new terminal and then one week later all flights will be operating from the new 200 million euro creation and about time too says you!

The above was gleaned from last night's Evening Echo which I saw only very briefly so it is maybe possible there were a few other gems of info about Cork so if anyone has any updates please go ahead!

Very interesting remarks at the Oireachtas Committe from Mr McGann of the Dublin based multi-national, the Dublin Airport Authority, about snn not being currently financially viable. Guess this will be an another excuse to top up the snn incentives for the likes of FR for a few years more and try to shaft the rest of the country with more transatlantic favouritism and the oul' stopover? Absolutely no chance of a modest runway extension for Cork or an ILS CATIII in these circumstances, is there?

[CCR]

Aer Arann is launching 3 new routes from October 2nd!

Cork-Galway
Cork-Leeds Bradford
Galway-Leeds Bradford

http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/0621/aerarann.html

[WOWBOY]

Cant say I am suprised!!

But LBA - GWY is quite unexpected!

[Tom the Tenor]

Cork - Galway Aer Arann at one daily must be a winner so is very welcome.

ORK-LBA is welcome too of course but an early morning MAN could have been a winner for connections east and westbound from Manchester and with FR four weekly on LPL-ORK another Manchester flight from RE could pick up some of the lost slack from FR and also help to nibble away with small bites at the three weekly FR snn-MAN?

Overall though the new RE flights are very welcome.

[JDB1052]

I notice Arran have also added an extra Cork to Dublin at 0700 - this connects in both ways with their Dublin Galways to give the day return using the direct service.

I thought this wold be right up against Ryanairs first departure to Dublin but their website shows them going down to two a day for winter, with the first one out of Cork to Dublin at 1000. What are they planning for the early slot out of Cork?

[orkpilot]

JDB1052--Ryanair will be using their first slot to operate a LGW flight.

Who will want to go to Galway via Dublin. dosent make sense especially when you'd drive it just as quick!!!

[buzzmebaby]

The timetable is showing Cork - Galway via Dublin at 3 hours. Allow an hour for checking in on the Cork side and getting to where you want to go in Galway and it's four hours.

The return trip, direct, is half an hour, so the total trip time is 5 and a half hours (again allowing an hour returning for checkin and Cork side travel). That makes it half an hour faster than driving, assuming you're not driving at rush hour, which could add half an hour in Limerick alone, not to mind Ennis....

Can't believe Ryanair are stopping the 6.45 to Dublin, it's always full when i travel on it, and it's a brilliant time. You can be in Dublin city centre by 8, do your thing and get the 13.30 home with RE.

[ryan2000]

Instead they are going to Gatwick as part of their ongoing war with Easyjet on the route.

[buzzmebaby]

So the customer and customer demand for routes is of no relevance in the entire process. Get rid of EZY and then do whatever you want to the passengers when you're the only/biggest dog left in town.

With regard to the uncertainty (see posts above) to EZYs future in Cork, does this indicate that they are sticking at it in Cork if RYR are continuing to try and beat them up?

[840]

It's a bit peculiar that they are putting in a connecting service since up to now they have only shown point-to-point. They have a number of other routes that they could treat this way (GWY-CWL, ORK-CWL). I wonder why they've decided to show it for Cork-Galway alone.

[EI-MICK]

on Todays EI823 from paris was non other than michael jackson and friends,pretty strange.maybe he thought that new terminal was neverland.

[ryan2000]

The last time he arrived was in July 1988, On that occasion a Burkina Faso 727 transported him from Luton.

[MarkD]

If the Cork-Dublin-Galway was direct (same plane) then it would be kind of like Galway-Waterford-Lorient (although I don't think they sold seats on GWY-WAT only)

[Tom the Tenor]

Guess it is only right not to let the day go without mentioning that the 4th Aer Lingus A320 to be based at Cork positioned in early this morning to begin work straight away with the first new extra flight to Warsaw now to be 4 weekly.

Today's Irish Examiner has two letters on the airport. The phased opening of the terminal begins around 10th July and things are hotting up again now in relation to how the debt will be managed and some of the politicos are getting their retaliation in first!

I sure do hope easyJet can be persuaded to keep some kind of presence in Cork but if they are gone come the end of September along with the Loganair off Glasgow searching around the road kerbs at Cork Airport looking for pennies to pay for the terminal will be a tough, tough job.

[asianfly]

From The Sunday Business Post....if the DAA are saying that SNN is not viable and is not ready to be run independently, what are the implications for Cork Airport? I presume the DAA are not too keen to see the CAA established as a (debt free) fully fledged independent entity either.

Shannon to lose €10m following US departure

Sunday, June 25, 2006 By Niamh Connolly, Political Reporter
Politicians were warned last week that Shannon Airport’s viability was in doubt, and its separation from the Dublin Airport Authority (DAA) was unlikely to take place in the foreseeable future.

The largest carrier of US military personnel through Shannon, World Airways, will move its primary stopover for flights to Leipzig in Germany.

GaryMcGann, chairman of the DAA, told an Oireachtas committee last week that Shannon’s ‘‘significant underlying losses’’ were masked by the impact of US military traffic.

He said costs were too high and out of step with Dublin and Cork airports. McGann did not quantify the losses but said that the revenue from the US military flights was ‘‘shoring up’’ income at Shannon by between €7million and €9million a year.

The Sunday Business Post has learned that when military activity is stripped out, Shannon Airport’s losses amounted to €2.25 million for January and February of this year.

The withdrawal of the Shannon stopover this November, which is expected to cost at least €4million a year in revenue, puts the airport on an even more insecure financial footing.

The airport still needs money for capital expenditure on buildings, its airside ramp and runway. Maintenance costs are expected to run to €10million over the next six years.

‘‘Shannon is not viable; it’s losing money,” McGann told the committee last week. ‘‘In the last year or two, it has been supplemented in its income because of military traffic.

There’s no prospect of Shannon being viable at all in the next number of years; hence no prospect of separation.”

[840]

Guess it is only right not to let the day go without mentioning that the 4th Aer Lingus A320 to be based at Cork positioned in early this morning to begin work straight away with the first new extra flight to Warsaw now to be 4 weekly.

What time did it position into the airport? I was around at 6am this morning and I could only see three on the apron, even though they were obviously checking in for four flights.

Incidentally, the check-in area was chaotic this morning. Maybe with the new terminal so close to opening, they aren't too bothered, but I would have thought Aer Lingus might want to push more people towards the self-service machines. They were mostly standing idle. Eventually, an announcement was made shortly before 6am, but they could do with someone actually encouraging people to use them. Considering Malaga and Warsaw will have very few passengers getting connecting flights, there's little reason for people to use traditional check-in.

Of course, this is one area where scaling back the TAB programme hurts them. If they could offer points for people to use it imagine the crush at the machines...

[MarkD]

840

Don't know about airlines but when I get VIA Rail trains in Canada I get bonus points for online purchase and self-service ticket pickup. I wish AC and BA would do likewise. I know a few people very annoyed by the EI dumping of TAB - another casualty in Willie's Ryanairification of Aer Lingus. Suffice it to say I hope he doesn't mess around with the BA Executive Club :D


Does anyone know if the 4th 320 means EI-DET was delivered from Airbus? It's due around now.

[840]

MarkD

Certainly, KLM gave away significant points when they introduced self-service check-in and later when they introduced internet check-in.

EI still have a frequent flyer programme and it's actually very generous now. The problem is that the requirement for the number of yearly points means it has very few members. Offering extra points to people who actually fly that regularly would be preaching to the converted anyway.

This probably belongs in the Aer Lingus thread. Apologies.

[EI-MICK]

i read on some local clare paper the other day that shannon are being gifted 53 million as compensation for the ending of the stopover,now why doesnt it suprise me.

[buzzmebaby]

EI-MICK

If that happens, it'll be one of the greatest scandals in Irish aviation history...:yuk:

[Tom the Tenor]

EI-MICK, what Clare newspaper are you referring to about gifts going to snn?

Another sign that the new terminal at Cork is close to opening - airliners parked at stands north of Stand 5 were parking nose in today! Progress of a kind! Anyone have any more news on the costings issue about the terminal?

EI to Berlin began this morning. A mate of mine was on the first flight today to visit the bro living in Berlin for many years. Nice one!

[CCR]

Can the government not assume the Cork terminal debt?
It is an essential piece of state infrastrucure.

[EI-MICK]

it was the clare champion i think from last friday,but i cant find it,just something on the limerick leader that shannon airport are calling for 53m funding to develop tourism after the stopover.il do my best to dig it

[Handover]

I would'nt get too upset about Shannon yet. First of all there's a big difference between looking for and actually getting the millions of euro.

Secondly any form of direct subsidy to the airport is in contravention of EU law and even if Shannon remains part of the DAA you cannot cross subsidise a loss making venture by charging more somewhere else.

I'm sure the EU Commision and the aviation regulator would be more than interested to hear if such a situation were to arise.

[ryan2000]

Unless the EU agreed to the subsidy just to get the Irish Government off their back. However the cost of operating Shannon is unsustainable, and Cork's costs could also come under scrutiny if it doesn't manage to grow its revenue. Gravy trains don't run for ever lads.

[MarkD]

Assigning the GSH group or other Aer Rianta assets to the SNN company might be how it's done. Then it's just a division of assets in a splitting company rather than a cash handout?

[eick320]

Mark D .... in relation to the delivery of EIDET .... aircraft arrived at dublin yesterday 28jun06 at approx 1400 hrs, one day late .... into opeartion today 29jun departing dub for lin

[lm06]

could not the root of the whole airport situation have been solved if they floated Aer Rianta in one lump like the Brits did with BAA....(note just bought by the spaniards for 10 bill sterling)

the real jewel in the state crown is these airports not the airline and if they were worried about being invaded they could have kept a golden share in them if necessary to quell voter insurgencies :-)

what's the sense in having three airports each with their own valid reason for life "competing" with each other in such a small market?

surely the situation with them separated is the worst scenario when they should be facing the world with one face....a smily one.... where some of the cash from DUB and the hotels could upgrade ORK to the CATIII thing that keeps being mentioned and keep the lights on in SNN when the yanks leave......surely between all of them they can work; but apart ... hmm !

a 1970s solution to a 21st century problem. such is life

note about the Aer Lingus TAB comments qv....it was said in the last few months somewhere that the United Airline frequent flyer biz was valued at more than the airline itself at about USD 15billion with a B. Would TAB not have been worth more as a marketing and incentive tool as it was instead of throwing it in the dustbin like they did. Particularly when all that seems to have happened to Aer L is that the prices have come down but the service stayed up...how nice is that ! In other words they cut off a something to spite something else to no economic end........ hmm !

people spend MILLIONS trying to touch their customers and aer l goes and does the opposite....then they drop out of OneWorld as someone pointed out earlier to what end !

[Tom the Tenor]

Some great news for Cork! Centralwings, the low cost arm of LOT are to begin Krakow and Wroclaw to Cork twice weekly from 31st October. Days of operation are Tuesdays and Thursdays.

Great news and I am over the moon about KRK from Cork!

The ramp at Cork looked fantastic on Thursday night. The new arrangements are in place whereby aircraft parked north of Stand 5 are now nose in by the new terminal. Fabulous sight of two Spanairs, one A321 and one MD, an EI A320 and the Malev 737-600 all nose in with another EI A320 and the FR 737-800 both moving around on the ramp at the same time not forgetting the parked Austrain Do328JET & the exclusive Gulfstream IV, N1 and the CSA 737 all ready parked in front of the old terminal.

A very moving sight watching Cork Airport at last come of age after 45 years taking her place among the fine airports of Ireland and Europe.

[MarkD]

eick320 - thanks mate

[Bearcat]

thought the same myself Tom....its lookin pretty. Shame about the rwy length and non cat 3 ability.

Having said that cork is now on a turning point and I wish it my very best....

:D

[ryan2000]

Cork will have 11 flights per week to Poland this winter. Kracow will attract Irish City Breakers as well as incoming Poles. Amazed that Aerlingus didn't go there instead of going head to head with CSA on Prague.

Gdansk-Cork could be next as that Polish Region isn't affected by these flights. The game is on for the Polish-Munster business with 4 players now in the Ring.

Conflicting reports about Easyjet and Cork.

[840]

ryan2000->It may yet be more than that. There are supposedly airlines looking at Gdansk and Poznan

Also heard a story about another possible French destination for RE. That's for a 2007 start though. Where's likely? Bordeaux?

[Tom the Tenor]

There is an outstandingly good letter in today's Irish Examiner by a lady named Caitriona Fitzpatrick on the airport. She is noting how Noel O'Flynn TD and Minister for Enterprise, Micheal Martin TD and the Government TDs in Cork in general are keeping their heads down low on the matter of the new terminal's debt and that if Cork Airport is left saddled with the cost the airport and region will be all but fatally compromised.

A great letter and well worth a read. It is important not to let the Government kick to touch on this using the Dail Recess as an excuse to slowly turn the screw on Cork through stealth.

[840]

EI-RB

The Aer Lingus A320 is already operational out of Cork.

The problem with Ryanair is their deal with Shannon. If they're considering launching a new route, it was almost always be more profitable to launch from Shannon rather than Cork. With routes already served from Shannon, they risk diluting their yield there. So, we're only likely to see routes that are served by other airlines from Cork already.

Unfortunately, Cork will never compete with Shannon, while Shannon is able to cross-subsidise with fees obtained from military flights and from the stopover.

[NC2]

Article from Irish Examiner Website today - The article is however credited to the Echo Newspaper (and that publication prides itself on the accuracy of it's reporting - usually if they get one fact right in an article - it's something to have a party about!!)

03/07/2006 - 3:20:22 PM

New Cork Airport terminal to open within three weeks

Cork Airport’s new terminal will be opened within two or three weeks, it was confirmed today.

Ryanair is considering beefing up its presence at Cork Airport, leading to the possibility of creating new flights in and out of the facility.

Some sources said that up to 10 new pilots and 14 new cabin crew could be employed to work specifically out of Cork, but Ryanair declined to comment.

Meanwhile, speaking at a meeting of the South Western Regional Authority (SWRA) airport consultative committee, airport chief executive Pat Keohane said he expected the terminal to be handed over by builders Rohcon later this week.

“The transfer will take place in a matter of days,” he said. “The expectation will be that we will have it open in two or three weeks,” he said.


The terminal will first be used for arrivals, then for the departures of selective charter flights, and then for all flight arrivals and departures.

It also emerged at today’s meeting that an independent report into the division of Cork’s €200m debt will be with Transport Minister Martin Cullen this week.

Junior Minister Batt O’Keeffe says the BDO Simpson Xavier report should be with the minister on Wednesday. He also said that Minister Cullen will be in Cork next Monday and may be able to meet key figures to discuss the airport issue.

However, opposition politicians lashed out at Government TDs on the issue and insisted that a promise to keep Cork debt-free must be kept.

Article courtesy of The Evening Echo newspaper

[buzzmebaby]

Unfortunately, Cork will never compete with Shannon, while Shannon is able to cross-subsidise with fees obtained from military flights and from the stopover.

So when the military traffic dwindles off (e.g losing 700 passengers a day now that World Airways have decided to move their refuelling stop to Leipzig) and the stopover is partially abolished (end 2007) will Cork be able to compete then?! :confused:

[840]

buzzmebaby

I'm not sure how long the Ryanair deal at Shannon lasts for. The point is that Shannon has revenue streams that it can use to subsidise business that Cork must run profitably (Note the recent report that said Shannon was currently unviable without this traffic). The strategy in Shannon is presumably to get the business started and then to try to make money out of it later. That kind of strategy is easier to support with Shannon's alternate revenue streams.

Anyway, I don't want to get into Shannon-bashing, I was just trying to explain why Ryanair will get a better deal at Shannon and send any new services their way.

Edit: Just a quick edit because it's not worth a post of its own. Czech Airlines flight to Prague now has an Aeroflot code share on it. Not particularly surprising with Aeroflot now in Skyteam.

[buzzmebaby]

No, it's a point well made. You're right on the theory and it makes sense that if Shannon has very high fixed costs (in this case the staff) they need to drive revenues as high as possible to try and cover them. Presumably the variable costs of extra passengers is outweighed by actually covering their fixed costs for once?

When they lose the ability to (cross)subsidise the Ryanair deal, the key thing is how Ryanair react when the deal starts to really hurt Shannon and management invariably have to renegotiate or terminate the deal.

I'd be interested to see that report in detail if it was available.

[lm06]

are the accounts for Shannon and for that matter Cork made public or just rolled into Aer Rianta ?
it amazes me that Shannon isn't viable...i would guess apart from the electricity it's the payroll that beats them

[ryan2000]

You're spot on Im. Has anyone ever visited the Shannon Restaurant in Winter and observed that the staff outnumber the public by at least 3 to 1.

The reality is that Dublin and Cork are unable to fund their own ambitious expansion plans without having to subsidise Shannon as well. In any event it's not part of the DAA's commercial mandate to do so. Shannon without the troops and the stopover will be a basket case unless their costs are brought back to realistic levels.

However its going to be difficult for Gary McCann to change a culture that has its roots in the Flying Boat era. The Ryanair deal at SNN will unravel very quickly if the present cost of staffing Shannon carries on post 2007.

Rumours of Ryanair expanding at Cork are all over the airport.

[lm06]

though cork is my preferred port, sometimes the prices and times (like the EI 9.30pm on a sunday night to LHR) are great from snn

maybe if they are in flying boat mode they should change the name of the airport back to "Rineanna"....has a ring to it !

not knocking the place at all....used to see TWA and Pan-Am jumbos pulling in there every summer in the 70s...made a big impression...but if it's not viable let the people who want the stopover fund it ie the clare and galway county councils or some such outfits

(they have their own site shannonenthusiasts.com which is why they don't comment on here ha ha ha....you have to stop over on the way ! ha ha ha)

[ryan2000]

I see that Ryanair have put on a 4th flight on the Cork Dublin service on the Day of the All Ireland Hurling Final.

It appears that optimistic supporters are convinced that the Cork Hurlers will be contesting their 4th successive final and that Aer Arann and Ryanair flights are heavily booked on that weekend. Breath taking arrogance !

These airlines will have some laugh if the hurlers trip up at the quarter final or semi final stage. Don't
bother looking for a refund guys.

[Shanwickman]

According to media reports the person that caused such disruption yesterday at Dublin airport has been ordered to keep away from Dublin and Shannon ariports. It appears that he can visit Cork airport if he wishes!
No doubt some regular posters on here will blame the Shannon lobby for this :)

[Tom the Tenor]

That's nothin', boy!

Cork had it's own biteen of excitement last night when the Airport Police van came a cropper at the Shell Garage. We all know just how hard that vehicle is worked everyday by the even harder working Airport Police that the van just gave up the ghost, began to overheat with plumes of very hot air expelling from the engine so much so that a unit of the Airport Fire Service was called to attend the scene. A funny spectacle up to a point but bearing in mind that the van was parked alongside the fuel pumps as other cars continued to take on petrol that on hindsight it was, perhaps, not all that funny.

Wonder did the CEO and chairman get a report on the matter on their desks this morning and while yez are at any more news on easyJet?

[MarkD]

maybe even use some earth fill from any nearby road projects (isn't Ringaskiddy happening soon?) to regrade the approach landscape - isn't that part of the problem with going CAT III?

Given Cork's weather I don't think spending major money on any runway extensions should be contemplated unless CAT III can be part of it, although that still wouldn't help Arann much I suppose.

[buzzmebaby]

MarkD

I don't agree. As they won't be paying for these things themselves, Cork can't afford to be choosy about infrastructure. An extension could be successfully used by larger aircraft for the 95% of the time that the weather is ok or CATII.

Don't hold your breath on Ringaskiddy, it's still in planning http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/MajorRoadSchemesinPlanning/

[ryan2000]

The biggest culprits when it comes to diverting are the airlines that won't upgrade their crews to carry out CAT2's at Cork. They will be no better in CAT3 conditions.
As for a Runway extension it will only happen if an airline is willing to operate transatlantic or other long haul operations from Cork.

I'd love to see an extension but what difference would it make this year apart from allowing Hemus operate the occassional TU154 to Bourgas when their 734 is running late.

It appears that Cork are now talking to several carriers about transatlantic.
At the end of the day Aerlingus are by far and away the most likely to make a success of it . Let us hope that all those shouting for US flights from Cork (and that includes me) will support them if they commence and that we won't be keeping one eye on the prices from Shannon.

There is a school of thought that Cork and Shannon will simply dilute each others yields to the point where neither airport will be able to support year round services. I don't neccessarily agree but its a factor in the minds of some key people.

[840]

Firstly a question: Would extending the runway and adding Cat III require the closure of 17/35? If so, an extension of 07/25 would have to be top priority.

As for transatlantic... The only way I see Aer Lingus operating transatlantic out of Cork is if someone else is preparing to start a service. Direct flights from Cork would dilute their Shannon yields. Only if they saw that these yields would be reduced anyway would they have any incentive to start.


Hopefully this will prove to be famous last words :cool:

[Charlie Roy]

Wizzair have announced on their website that they will be introducing a service between Gdansk and Cork from mid December.

Once again the flight times aren't the most convenient being at night. So they seem to be mainly targeting people from the north of Poland who are living in Cork (or planning to come).

That makes FIVE Cork to Poland routes now. Wouldn't have even imagined the like a couple of years ago.

Great to see Wizzair committing themselves further to Cork.

I wonder will Aerlingus notice a dilution on their Warsaw service? Or is the Polish market still growing so much that Warsaw loads will be unaffected.

And did I hear that Poznan is also on the cards? Who would introduce that? And what about Lodz? Isn't that the second largest city in Poland? The "Cork" of Poland so to speak...

[johnrizzo2000]

I'd like to see EI try Cork to Milan, Bordeaux/Toulouse , Glasgow and Brussels.

[Charlie Roy]

I'm glad you mentioned Brussels. And i hope ye don't mind me bringing this up again.

I fly every couple of weeks with Ryanair between Charleroi and Shannon. Half the plane are heading to Cork like!

I know JetMagic failed, but their two flights a day were a bit of overkill. And by the time they had decided to axe the route it was picking up and getting really good loads.

Then SN Brussels operated the route in the summer of 2005. HIGHLY successful. Despite the serious lack of marketing on both sides, they nearly completely filled every plane. Most passengers were Belgian (the only ones that would have been checking the SN website and noticed they had a new destination), and they mainly travelled in a leisure capacity. There was also a strong contingent of business travellers (Irish and Belgian).

Most of the Cork / Munster people living in Brussels didn't find out until too late that the service existed unfortunately.

I emailed SN and they say that the service was to coincide with the capital of culture, and contribute its success to that fact, saying it doesn't make sense to reintroduce it.
That's such a pity because most passengers who used the service didn't even know Cork was the capital of culture last year!

I'll keep my fingers crossed...

[Charlie Roy]

I see on the brussels airport website, in the timetables section, that Cork is listed as a destination, with the carrier listed as Thomas Cook Airlines.

This has been only recently added as I check this page often.
However on the Thomas Cook site (Belgium) there is no mention of Cork.

Could Thomas Cook be planning the introduction of Cork - Sharm El Sheik or somewhere equally exotic VIA Brussels, for example? Twud be great :8

http://www.brusselsairport.be/timetables/

[Tom the Tenor]

Great news about Gdansk-Cork with Wizz! At twice weekly all these new routes should do just fine. There are even a few extras down for around Christmas time. Good to have such welcome news for the Cork area with some more new routes.

Heard this evening that the new terminal was handed over to the airport authority on Thursday be it the CAA or DAA am not too sure! Wonder if this has been brought about by the consultants finishing off their report on how the terminal will be paid?

[EI-MICK]

The debate went on the other night as who to name the terminal after,christy ring was a name mentioned a few times,it certainly wont be named after cullen and his heroes

[lm06]

enough of political naming of airports....
Billa International Airport
Paddy Comerford International Airport
Cha & Miah International Airport
O'Hailpin International Airport
Roy Keane International Airport
Bill O'Herlihy International Airport oki doke ?

[ryan2000]

After all the missed deadlines, false promises etc calling it after "Cha an Mia" or one of Cork's many other comedians might not be that inappropriate.

Amazed that the Cork lobby hasn't pointed out that Shannon got a new terminal free of charge a short few years ago. Not to mention the Soviet Fuel Farm, the Houses for the Aeroflot crews, the Aeroflot painting hanger the call centre for Virgin Express and a host of other white elephants.

What return did Aer Rianta let alone the taxpayer get for these initiatives ?


]

[Tom the Tenor]

Good points you have there, ryan2000, which may need to be followed up soon! The extent of the political patronage that snn has received is truly breathtaking if you stop and think about it all. You made a good point in the Dublin thread about the question of complicity with regard to snn and the stopover elsewhere in the State airports hierarchy in Dublin and Cork along with maybe in Aer Lingus which has been on my mind now for the past few days.

As for Cork and North America regretably I feel the chances are now as far off as ever. Hard to see anything happening in Cork's favour before the year 2010 so in effect it is all but gameover. The road is too long for Cork to travel, snn has it all sown up and just how up for it is the new bunch in charge at Cork is hard to tell and now even moreso as the likes of Wizz and Central Wings increase their presence at the soon to be opened new terminal.

However, there is a general election on the way next year if not sooner and in the right kind of atmostphere direct US flights from Cork have as much chance of being a hot local topic as anything else. Who knows, maybe the right kind of candidate running on a support Cork Airport ticket may yet turn up and run in, say, Cork South Central! Other single issue candidates have from time to time been very successful around the country.

When it comes to personalities and Cork Airport anything is possible!

[ryan2000]

I wouldn't be all that pessimistic. Next year SNN will have DL to ATL and JFK, CO to EWR, US to PHL AA to BOS and possibly Northwest to Detroit. In addition EI will have daily services to JFK and BOS. Now if SNN can support this level of activity in a post stopover environment then ORK JFK say 4 days a week should be a no brainer.

However many Cork people have been travelling to SNN every day for the past 50 years and probably will continue to do so if the fare is cheaper.

How much money they'll have left for Shopping in Manhatten will be the foremost factor on their minds when they decide which Airport to fly from.

Even last year countless Cork people ignored the proposed Charter flights to JFK and instead booked their Shopping Breaks with EI and CO ex SNN even though prices were similar.


When the Shannon Tunnell opens Cork and Shannon will be within 90 mins of each other which is as close as Stansted to Gatwick. Both airports will have a local catchment area and some very loyal supporters but the real battle will be for 1 million or so people who live in Munster and whose only loyalty is to their pocket.
The runway could be extended within 12 months if the will and finance were there and management are supportive of a US link.

[lm06]

when is that tunnel due ?
that dock road in limerick is the biggest pain if you're passing earlyish in the day or late afternoon....from coonagh almost to croom....all that new
bypass - single lane the WHOLE way

[CCR]

The theory that transatlantic flights into Cork will damage Shannon is somewhat flawed.
There is about 500,000 people living in Cork (city & county). All business and most leisure passengers in Cork fly to the US from Cork via Dublin or London or Amsterdam. People used to take the long drive to Shannon in the 80's & 90's but most Corkonians don't bother nowadays you can get a cheap flight to Dublin or London and connect onwards to the US.

[buzzmebaby]

The contract for the tunnel and the rest of the Limerick ring road has been awarded to Directroute (you might remember them from such bypasses as Fermoy). It should be awarded sometime at the end of the summer, but don't know when construction or completion is planned.

[EI-MICK]

cullen again dad no say about the fiasco,now the government employ consultants who cant meet deadlines.Also clueless cullen had a beauty the other day when launching the new trains from cork to dublin '' Ireland in 5 years time will have the best rail servie in europe'' a peach,he's obviously never been outside ireland to visit london,paris,berlin or perhaps any mickey mouse station in europe which has a better rail service than here and always will.

[Tom the Tenor]

Well, the 10th July, 2006 has come and gone and no sign yet of the new Cork terminal opening. Anyone have any more info?

Also hearing today that RE to Southampton is no longer bookable after the end of October.

[NC2]

Interesting to note that in the papers over the last few days that the consultants have presented their report to the Minister (Martin Cullen) regarding the debt in relation to the terminal and associated works at Cork Airport. All reports indicated that the consultants were BDO Xavier Simpson.

I recall that after these consultants were revealed to be less than "independent" due to the significant level of work they were undertaking for the DAA and the fact that they refused to meet the management of Cork Airport - different consultants were appointed - namely Aviation Economics.

It now appears that these were only working for BDO - which means (and forgive me being cynical here) that we can fairly well guess that the recommendation of the report is that Cork Airport will end up shouldering the vast majority of the debt, possibly with some token amount being taken by the DAA. A fairly classic case of who pays the piper?

Now the thought did occur to me that if the DAA were unable to separate Cork Airport out as a separate entity (which maybe their plan all along), they will end up shouldering all the debt anyway. Perhaps the management in Cork Airport should just stop trying and remain tied to Dublin and continue the central ordering toilet paper from Dublin. God knows there'll be a need for it when the report is published and the proverbial hits the fan!!

[840]

Well, the 10th July, 2006 has come and gone and no sign yet of the new Cork terminal opening. Anyone have any more info?
Also hearing today that RE to Southampton is no longer bookable after the end of October.
Same with Newquay (also Nantes and Lorient, but I think they were always intended to go for the winter).

Anyone know any more about EasyJet or Jet2? I notice that a lot of Winter flights from London are still not available on EasyJet, so all hope hasn't gone yet.

[Tom the Tenor]

Looks like Cork may be saying goodbye to Jet2, Loganair and ever so regretably, easyJet, for winter 2006/7? Still no easyJet flights bookable after 30th September, 2006 and if they were staying why leave it so late to load the autumn/winter flights? Situation must be grave and it looks more and more likely that FR are going to win the day on Cork - Gatwick.

A great pity as there is no doubt whatsoever that easyJet could profitably keep a presence at Cork and this could be salvagable with the stroke of a pen if the bunch at Cork were anyway interested in the project and made the right approach and talk with easyJet? bmi baby are set to go daily on Durhan Tees Valley for the winter so Jet2 must be a goner too at Cork. Longanair agus Glasgow - slan leat freisin!

There are a few rumors around Cork that the airport will get some benefit of the GSH sale. What good that will be if Cork remains saddled with even half the approximate 160 million euro debt is debatable. Meanwhile, at snn there is a plan to cut landing fees to attract more budget airlines and how is Cork to get an edge in the face of that kind of kind of competition? Should imagine it is almost impossible if left with half or so of the terminal debt to service!

[ryan2000]

I still think that reports of Easyjet leaving Cork are premature. Their load factors and yields have been quite good lately.

Loganair will be no loss as they made no effort to develop the route and just got in the way of efforts to attract a low cost jet service.

While there are some negatives, it is likely that the financial situation at Cork will be resolved before August and that a number of significant new initiatives will be announced shortly afterwards.

[eick320]

Was up in the new building durning the week and yes progress is being made, the building was handed over late last week to CAA. Alot of work still needs doing in relation to the back offices etc but the airport itself is looking well. All the seating for waiting pax, bars and dining areas are all in place and the duty free shop is almost fully stocked. No news as to a moving date but July 17 has been cited as the day arrivals will open (although in saying that i know the car hire people have hugh issues outstanding re space). Everything else front of house looks ready ie. Subway , pass machines , londis shop and hughes and hughes never mind the " Rebel Bar " and the " Sports Bar ".

[lm06]

oh noooo....you mean the walk of shame from terminal to car rental car park will double in length....??
are they not going to be situated right nearby ??

(i love that walk especially when it's half past 10 of a friday in late november with a gale blowing and the rain beating....with a wife and two baby seats all up on my back for the ride !!! lol )

[Tom the Tenor]

Cork Airport - Ireland's 2nd biggest pub? In keeping with Irish Steve's regular remarks about how Dublin Airport may be thought of as Ireland's biggest pub I wonder is Cork's new airport well on the way to be classed as the nation's second biggest public house? Funny how the two new bars, the Rebel Bar and the Sport's Bar are, according to eick320, ready for use whilst other parts of the terminal still need some work!

Remembering the many years of conviviality that the Cork Airport bar was notorious for going back thirty years or more there is a measure of poetic justice now that among the first areas of the new terminal ready for action are the bars! To be sure there are some famous characters now up in heaven looking down on the scene having a right ol' laugh at the present goings on at Cork's new Cha & Miah terminal!

[Charlie Roy]

Some good news :O

In Ryanair's winter schedule they will use a Dublin based aircraft to operate a third flight between Dublin and Cork on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays:

Dublin - Cork 2045 - 2135
Cork - Dublin 2200 - 2250
(Flight times on Sundays 45 minutes later)

So in fact Ryanair are going to be flying more passengers to/from Cork in winter than they are now in summer!

Hopefully this shows that Ryanair's policy of "NO expansion at Cork while charges are high" isn't so stringent.

[Tom the Tenor]

Wizz Air began their new schedule from Katowice to Cork in the early hours today. Heard her climbing away again from Cork around 0143 local. The check in area at Cork had been decked out with balloons yesterday to mark the occasion of Wizz's arrival on the local scene. Hope Wizz do really well with Katowice and also later in the year when they start a service from Gdansk. How times have changed!

Guess there will be no orange balloons and bunting at Cork on 30th September?

Hope Aer Arann tough it out with their late evening Cork/Dublin flights now that is has emerged that FR are being choosy about what nights they will operate the new extra flight from Dublin.

Heard a suggestion that the new terminal should be called "The Munster Terminal!" A great idea I think!

[ryan2000]

Today's Irish Examiner reports that Cork is to spend 250,000 euro on a new marketing campaign in conjunction with the opening of the new terminal.

It also seems that the decision to provide incentives to airlines who operate two scheduled services per week on a route as against 3 previously has paid off in terms of Kracow, Gdansk and Wroclaw.

There are others awaiting clarification on the airport's debt issue before making their minds up.

Heard that the new Aerlingus flight to Berlin is doing exceptionally well.

The extra evening service from Ryanair is most welcome.

[Tom the Tenor]

€250,000 is great and sure is a lot of money to market Cork Airport but let us get real here - how many millions of euros and punts have snn received down the years for marketing and the like? No doubt Cork was kicking up a stink about that too at the time!

Ah, yes! The Cha & Miah Terminal is not that far off the mark at all!

[Charlie Roy]

Great to see this money to market Cork! :O
Pity Cork wasn't marketed in Continental Europe during the capital of culture. Everyone in Ireland knew about it, but that's where it stopped! Compare it to the marketing campaign the Liverpool 2008 crowd have lead so far. That's what we needed.

I sincerely hope this 250,000 euro is well spent and not wasted and squandered. :suspect:

I see Easyjet are doing their bit to advertise Cork on their homepage at the moment. Highlighting the Timoleague festival among others :D

Not surprised that the Berlin service is doing very well. I am flying Berlin to Cork myself mid-August, and will hopefully be arriving home into the brand spanking new terminal.

A service to Frankfurt or Dusseldorf would also go down very well I believe. Not only with Cork people but also with the thousands of Germans eager to visit Ireland, but flying to Shannon and mostly Dublin who has the lion's share of German routes.

[Charlie Roy]

The Cork airport website could do with a serious face-lift too! It is under utilised as the potentially strong marketing tool it is.

It should be kept up-to-date more frequently. The "direct destinations" page is very dated. The route map is difficult to find and looks crap. It should be more prominent. They could also do some advertising on the website. Let it pay for itself like.

Shannon and Dublin recently redid their websites. They look a whole lot better than the Cork website, but I'd still only give them 6/10.

[ryan2000]

Scandanavia and most of Germany are two areas where Cork is badly in need of direct services. There are rumours of a serious effort to launch a Scandanavian route around for a while. Copenhagen would probably be the most likely to serve the City Break market and it also has it's vast Baltic and Scandanavian hub going for it.
We came very close to getting a Dortmund service in early 2005 as part of a package of new routes but that's another story.

[Charlie Roy]

Heard that the new Aerlingus flight to Berlin is doing exceptionally well.


Any idea how Aerlingus' Birmingham service is doing?
I can't believe they ever considered it in the first place, since there was already 2 competitors on the route. Instead of Birmingham they should have introduced Glasgow or Brussels!

Also with Aerlingus starting Prague in October :ugh:
There are potential routes screaming out left, right and centre but yet again Aerlingus decide to go into competition on a route operated daily by CSA!
They should have been looking at Polish routes, but now Wizzair and Centralwings have beaten them to it. Otherwise Milan, Venice, indeed Copenhagen would have been far better choices than PrAGuE :{

[ryan2000]

.
Vienna would be another route that might open up new business. There are 3 slots available on Tues, Thurs and Sat during the winter with one of the 320's but there is only enough time to go to a UK destination.


A

[840]

Any idea how Aerlingus' Birmingham service is doing?
I can't believe they ever considered it in the first place, since there was already 2 competitors on the route. Instead of Birmingham they should have introduced Glasgow or Brussels!
The only reason I can imagine they continue to ignore Brussels is because they probably carry most Brussels-bound pax anyway. Either connecting in London or travelling by direct train from Schiphol or Paris are going to be the most common ways of getting to Brussels, so they may damage their own yields if they did operate it.

I'm sure the decision to go head to head with CSA was deliberate. There are probably a number of Central European and Baltic destinations that would have provided better passenger volume (that is assuming CSA decide to try to stick it out...).

[Charlie Roy]

.
Vienna would be another route that might open up new business. There are 3 slots available on Tues, Thurs and Sat during the winter with one of the 320's but there is only enough time to go to a UK destination.


Indeed Vienna would also be a very nice destination. And I even know a few Slovakians living in Cork who'd use it. Shur it's only down the road from Bratislava!

Aha, I didn't know that, about those (as of yet) unused winter slots :8
What approximate times are we looking at?

[Charlie Roy]

The only reason I can imagine they continue to ignore Brussels is because they probably carry most Brussels-bound pax anyway. Either connecting in London or travelling by direct train from Schiphol or Paris are going to be the most common ways of getting to Brussels, so they may damage their own yields if they did operate it.

I'm sure the decision to go head to head with CSA was deliberate. There are probably a number of Central European and Baltic destinations that would have provided better passenger volume (that is assuming CSA decide to try to stick it out...).

True enough about Brussels. Lots of people fly Cork to Paris and then get the TGV between CDG and Brussels (85 minutes) when travelling between Cork and Brussels.

I'll have to wait then for Ryanair to introduce Charleroi - Cork, but they also may be afraid of damaging their Charleroi - Shannon yields.

Please, please SN Brussels reintroduce your highly popular Brussels to Cork!

I have no doubt that Aerlingus have deliberately gone head to head with CSA, just think it's stoo-pid :sad:
Can't see CSA backing down. They get a lot of custom from people connecting through their hub in Prague. Cork - Stuttgart, Cork - Moscow, Cork - the Baltics.
It'll be interesting to see how this pans out over the next year...

[840]

Guys,

I get to fly back in tomorrow after an unusually prolonged absence.

I assume there's b*gger all chance of arriving into the new terminal?

[NC2]

840,

The new terminal will be fully operational by the end of 2005... I mean the 10th of May defintely.... or maybe 10th July for arrivals, or was that the 17th July for arrivals, well definately July ... or August but certainly before the end of 2006... on a phased basis for any pasengers holding a ministerial appointment in the current government covering the transport portfolio, arriving on an Irish government jet and waving a report shouting open the doors lads the DAA are paying for it all !!

To answer your question, enjoy your flight and the warm welcome from the small airport with the big (unopened) terminal !!

[asianfly]

Could it be that the Cork management are holding off opening the new terminal until the debt issue has been resolved? Once it opens, the debt issue will no longer be seen as a hot political topic, whereas if a brand new unused terminal is simply sitting there gathering dust, it keeps the pressure on the politicos and the DAA to sort out a solution once and for all.
With an election in the offing, I am sure the government would like to see the airport issue off the agenda and the longer it sits there upopen, the greater the pressure on them to explain the situation.
Meanwhile, passengers can go and be damned!

[ryan2000]

There is huge political pressure on to have the debt issue resolved quickly.

That doesn't mean that Cork is going to get the debt free status that it has been promised. I also think that the excellent points that are being made about the issue should be sent to the letters column of the local and national newspapers as talking to each other on Pprune isn't going to worry the decision makers. Let's make the general public in Cork aware of our views.

[Tom the Tenor]

Hi 840, I am sure there will be a big Cead Mile Failte when you return to Cork tomorrow. Who knows, even Cha & Miah might show up to welcome you home to Cork Airport!

The Cha & Miah Terminal - it just cracks me up!

Meanwhile, Cork City have got through to another round of the Champions League qualifiers after their aggregate win in Cyprus last night and are to play Red Star Belgrade next week. More headaches for the Cork ramp if JAT are hired to bring in the Serbian team and if Cork City get to hire Eirjet for the return game in Belgrade even their A320s should make it there non-stop! Cork is long overdue her own charter outfit with a 737 or Airbus to her name? What do yez all think?

Heard that the Wizz Air from Katowice made their first CAT2 approach to Cork in the early hours today.

The www.flyinginirelandmagazine.com website have posted many new photos of the interior of the new Cork terminal which are well worth a look.

[asianfly]

Tom - Indeed Cork City FC had a great aggregate win, despite the fact that their charter had refuel in Rimini and all in all took around 7 hours to get from Cork to Cyprus! Let's hope their Belgrade charter gets there a bit quicker. Not sure who the operator was pf the charter was.

[Tom the Tenor]

Levity aside, it is important not to lose sight of Ryan2000's last post above on the issues surrounding the debt associated with the new terminal.

Like Ryan2000 says it is so, so important to follow up your support for Cork Airport by writing a letter to the newspapers, be it the Irish Examiner, Irish Times or Irish Independant. The significance of such letters can not be underestimated as the TDs in Leinster House take great notice of what goes into letters published by the newspapers so get writing and you can do it so easily via the different newspapers' websites so there are no excuses!

Knuckle down and send those letters! snn has for decades been in receipt of favourable treatment from the politicians so now is high time for us all to do their little bit for Cork Airport!

[EUAir]

Anything more about American flights from ORK- have been out of circulation for a while so haven't heard any news.
Monarch are starting flights from MSE, EUjet's failed base, to Virginia. Is the time not right for ORK now- but as I say maybe I am behind and ORK already has 20 USA flights a day ;-)
I have heard that Maxjet are looking at Ireland as their next destination from New York- maybe Cork could pull that one off?

[Tom the Tenor]

Cork Airport may yet become a hot topic in next year's Irish General Election. All politics is local and if the airport is kept in the limelight for long enough without satisfactory resolution of the outstanding issues there is plenty time available between now and early next summer, the likely time for the next election, for a local single issue candidate to emerge to take on the Cork based Fianna Fail government TDs whose performance in relation to the airport now and in the past has been less than stellar and it would also serve to keep the opposition parties sharp too on the subject.

In regard to outstanding issues that might include the provision of an Instrument Landing System to CAT3 standard, modest runway and ramp extensions along with firm political support on the provision of direct air services between Cork and the USA bearing in mind the centuries of direct passenger liner sailings between Cobh and New York and the U.S East Coast.

One thing for sure, Cork Airport will no longer be sitting idly by allowing herself to be bullied by Dublin based multinational rivals with airport interests in the midwest or by any other party or parties that would do Cork down be they foreign or local.

[johnrizzo2000]

If Cork is going to get service from the us, Continental would be the most likely, as they have a large hub in EWR, and they can serve cork with a 757

[EIDW Spotter]

Or Even Delta (rumoured to be purchasing ex TWA etops) or US Airways as they are all starting to fly to Europe using ETOPS B757.

[orkpilot]

Or even if MaxJet could do it with the B/767-200.....

[840]

Since MaxJet are a business-class only airline, would they get enough business in Cork? It's one thing to imagine filling a 757 out of Cork, but to fill 102 business-class seats would be quite a challenge.

I'd go along with the thinking that the most likely candidate is a US legacy carrier with 757s. Their set-up would make servicing the route much more straightforward.

[ryan2000]

It's not going to be easy to get a US service from Cork. Aerlingus are the one airline that has expressed an interest in ORK JFK but that was under the Walsh/Kearney management.

Let's hope that Cork are not tempted to get involved in any more Charter intiatives as the failure of 3 such attempts has undermined the credibility of transatlantic from Cork.

[asianfly]

I honestly don't think transatlantic charters will ever work from ORK, and I guess this has been proved by the failed efforts so far. I for one would steer well clear of a charter as if an aircraft goes tech (and this has happened alot with charters out of Cork), you could be waiting quite a while for your take off. It is simply not a good option re connections or seasonal scheduling. A legacy carrier would probably work as there is plenty of US MNCs operating in the Cork area and they would certainly rather fly direct to the states if at all possible. Mind you, the US immigration pre-clearance at SNN and DUB is a great asset and something that you would obviously not get at Cork. Anyway, just my two cents worth....

[CCR]

The amount of US based companies, especially in the Pharmaceutical and IT industries that it's a no brainer that it will work from Cork. It has double the population of the Shannon region which has multiple US destinations. Charters simply do not work for business travel.

[Tom the Tenor]

This evening's Cork Evening Echco newspaper has a front page story confirming that easyJet are quitting Cork on 30th September. The newspaper is quoting that whilst Cork was their most successful Irish route tough competition from Ryanair has forced them off the route. Flights from Gatwick to Knock Airport and Shannon are also ending on the same date.

This is a very bad blow in public relations terms for Cork Airport in the days prior to the opening up of her new terminal. The move by easyJet makes Cork Airport look very foolish indeed and again brings into question last autumn's courting of Ryanair by the bunch in charge at Cork Airport.

That was one bad day's work and brings into question the competence of the Cork Airport board. By any yardstick Ryanair have made clear their own lack of committment to Cork Airport since January of this year by pulling the FR903/4, FR907/8 for the peak summer months and the cutting of their Liverpool flight to 4 weekly down from a daily service.

The competence of the Cork Airport board is further drawn into even more question today if what is being rumored around Cork today has any basis - there was a significant electricity failure in the Cork south city area last Monday in the localities, roughly, from Ballincollig to Crosshaven. The airport must have been affected in some way because that electricity failure is now being touted around as the latest lame excuse for not yet opening the new terminal!

The bunch in charge at Cork Airport are just something else, aren't they! Why would you have any faith in them?

[ryan2000]

Easyjet's decision is very disappointing. However there is nothing the board could do to stop Ryanair from going head to head with them on Gatwick.


At present Cork will have 10 return flights per day to London for Winter 2006/07 as against 12 for 2005/06. This in itself should not have a major impact. However if Ryanair row back on their plans to operate 3 per day to both Gatwick and Stansted, the shining terminal on the hill could be handling less traffic than the old terminal before the year is out.

Early morning flights to Poland etc won't make up the difference.

[Charlie Roy]

Desperate shame to see Easyjet go :{
People always give out how Ryanair battled them off the route. And I agree, it would have been better to see Ryanair use their Cork based aircraft to introduce new routes from Cork.
Don't forget though that Easyjet introduced Cork - Gatwick when BMI baby were already operating the route.

Of the 3 flights now offered daily to Gatwick by Ryanair, it would be nice to see the middle one used for Luton instead.