LEEDS - 2

[PPRuNe Pop]

Go..........................................

[Jet2Leeds]

Hi All, Wondering if anybody out there would know the Times for the Flypast at Cullingworth on Sat
(Between Bradford - Keighley- Halifax)
I understand Lanc-Spit- Hurricane are comming



http://www.bronte-vintage-gathering.co.uk/

[Mooncrest]

Think I'll give the new thread a bit of a kickstart and talk about an old hobby horse, i.e summer holiday charter flights.

I'll nail my colours firmly to the mast and state my opinion that that a third based charter machine for LBA is justified. It's been said on these forums over the last couple of years that the IT market is gradually on the decline as the low cost business gathers pace. However, I still believe there's a healthy charter market out there, not necessarily to Spain but certainly to Greece (e.g. Kos, Kefalonia, Thessalonika, Skiathos), Italy (Naples, Pisa, Sardinia), Slovenia and Croatia.

Airtours and Thomson have reasonable programmes at the moment, Thomas Cook is improving and First Choice is somewhat lacking. I definitely feel there is scope for the latter two companies to get together at LBA and base a TCX or FCA aircraft for the summer. They could comfortably cover their existing commitments and move into the unserved/underserved destinations mentioned above. Thomson may wish to have a wider crack at Greece; I don't know what happened to their Zakynthos route but there must be enough business out there to justify a few other islands or maybe the mainland. And with the exception of Verona, nobody is doing Italy (Jet2 notwithstanding. I ain't counting them coz this is charter business).

BTW, my inspiration for writing this piece was a certain travel agent in Yeadon. I looked in the window last week and saw advertised fourteen Greek holidays. THIRTEEN were Manchester departures, the fourteenth was from... wait for it...East Midlands. Absolutely not b****y good enough, I fumed. Where the hell are the LBA flights I wondered. The airport less than two miles away and all the travel agent can offer in the window is flights from somewhere else. Hopeless !! If you want Spain, terrific. If you want Greece (or anywhere even considered slightly exotic by LBA standards), forget it.

There, I feel better for that. My point is, we're doing all right (more pax than Cardiff) but we're not doing nearly as well as we could. Securing Jet2 was a major achievement for the airport but that was over three years ago. The airport cannot afford to rest on its laurels, it needs to get some serious choice in it's holiday charter programme. And whilst it chews that over, it can wonder why Centralwings decided to clear off so quickly.

[airhumberside]

Thomas Cook is improving and First Choice is somewhat lacking. I definitely feel there is scope for the latter two companies to get together at LBA and base a TCX or FCA aircraft for the summer.
First Choice dont seem to care about the smaller airports in Northern England/Scotland that much. Theres a similar situation with them at HUY, MME, LPL and EDI. Even NCL doesnt get a based aircraft (although that is to do with a deal with TCX from a few years ago)

As for Thomas Cook, they are expanding from LBA, HUY and DSA instead of focusing on one airport in the region. Therefore, I doubt a based aircraft is on the cards but maybe the rumoured AEU extra aircraft for part of the week may be used by Thomas Cook for some extra flights

[ashmac33]

I have heard rumour of thomas cook in talks with astraeus for more flights soley for themselves, for next summer 07. I believe there will be 1 1/2 aeu a/c based at leeds towards the end of this year.

[lbalad]

Just been looking at lbia website,and it appears a new operator Manx2 is due to start flights from lba to iom.Can anybody tell me what type of aircraft is pictured?Cheers.

[scamptonboy]

Hello there lbalad,

The aircraft pictured on the LBIA web site is a Czech built Let410, a 19 seat aircraft rumoured to be conducting the route.

There is still some uncertanty as to this type being used on the route as other reports claim Jetstream 31's would be another option.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see!

[The Desert Ferret]

Things are happening.

Daily Telegraph got an inside line on this:

-----------------------------------------------------------

While Grupo Ferrovial's consortium battles to acquire London airports operator BAA, steered by chairman Marcus Agius, a number of smaller airports look set to change hands.

Sources said Devon County Council will send out an information memorandum on Exeter and Devon Airport to pros-pective buyers this week. Leeds Bradford Airport could also be put on the block.

It's understood the local councils that own the airports are interviewing a number of investment banks to advise them on a potential sale.

It's unlikely any of the major infrastructure funds, such as Goldman Sachs, will be interested in Exeter and Devon and Leeds Bradford airports. But smaller players, including Babcock and Brown, could be. Sources also said that if Ferrovial is successful with BAA, it might look to sell some regional airports, including Belfast City, to help finance its offer.

----------------------------------------------------------

[682ft AMSL]

The latest political obstacle to privatisation was overcome last week when Bradford Council voted to ratify a decision made by the Executive Board in March to allow Bradford's 40% shareholding in the airport to be offered for sale. With Leeds and 3 other minority shareholders having already voted in favour selling their shares, the process can now move on to the next phase. As it stands, Leeds City Council will manage the disposal process on behalf of all 5 local authorities and they will appoint financial advisors to market the airport and facilitate the tendering process. It is likely there has already been some degree of sounding out potential bidders in advance of this more formal process getting underway so hopefully it will not take too long for potential purchasers to throw their hats into the ring.

As to who that might be, there were something like 30 initial expressions of interest in a 50% stake in NCL back in 2000/2001 when NCL was roughly the same size as LBA is today. On the basis of a potential 100% stake in Leeds and given it is the last airport of its size that will be coming to market directly from the local authorities, there should be a fair degree of interest.

MAG and Peel are likely to be non-starters given the precedent of Macquarie's (joint owner of BRS) bid for EXT being referred to the competition authorities. TBI, Macquarie and Copenhagen Airports all have interests in UK regional airports, none of which serve the Yorkshire & Humberside catchment and it would be surprising if they didn't show an interest. Babcock Plc have recently purchased Alstec, a company who provide baggage and inter- terminal transfers for BAA Heathrow and in the press release Babcock are quoted as saying "Alstec's skills and track record with those of Babcock creates exciting new opportunities in two major growth markets: nuclear decommissioning and airport management". Clearly a very diverse business then, but one would imagine they too will look closely at Leeds if they want to get into airport management. Arguably not the best option for LBA relative to Macquaire, TBI etc given the lack of experience and, more crucially, the lack of any other airports in the Group. Perhaps the biggest commercial vulnerability at LBA is the fact it exists as a stand-alone airport surrounded by airports that are part of larger groups and these groups are getting increasingly good at building relationships with an airline at one airport to attract new services to another. Peel's relationship with EZY / RYR at LPL leading to new services at DSA being a good example.

[The Desert Ferret]

Totally uninformed speculation - I wonder if Channel Express would be interested in teaming up with an airport specialist?

I wouldn't be in favour but it would be interesting -though suspect Channel Express wouldn't have the capital.

[wawkrk]

Bet some of the LBA management are croaking !!!

[Mooncrest]

I've heard it rumoured (stress RUMOUR) that Dart Group and/or Wal-Mart have expressed an interest in share acquisition of LBA. However, given that Dart own Jet2 who are by far LBA's biggest operator, I couldn't see them gaining anything approaching a controlling interest in the airport as it would be potentially very harmful to competition. As for Wal-Mart, I suppose they might wish to use LBA as an air cargo hub for their UK distribution network. After all, cargo is sadly lacking in our back yard. I just hope they wouldn't be interested from a land and property point of view. You could get an almighty supermarket on that spot. And discarded trolleys all over the runway...;)

Whoever finally gets their hands on our beloved aerodrome, let's hope there is plenty of investment and aggressive marketing so we can try to match the likes of Bristol and Newcastle.

[felixflyer]

Wal-Mart Aviation used to have at least one aircraft based at LBA. From what i heard the new boss of Wal-Mart Europe is not particulaly keen on flying and got rid of the plane/planes and pilots.

[Manston Airport]

Hi just wondering was there a VC-10 in the LBA area last night?

James

[BOAC]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=230010

[Tommyinyork]

Would AEU ever opt for a 757 at LBA, ok a 737-700 next summer but for a few flights with the 2nd a/c could this be a 757 ?

[LBA]

Guess who's back...... :p

I don't think they would, the 73G suits their needs well from LBA!

[SASfox]

Just heard from a mate at Aviance that bmi are stopping their Cork service at the end of June. Sorry if this is old news.

[Mooncrest]

Hello Fox, long time no speak.

Yes it's true the LBA-ORK is being scrapped. Apparently something to do with increased fees at Cork because of the new terminal. Something like that anyway.

Another one bites the dust. First Jersey, now this. Wonder if they'll go for the hat trick ??:{

[SASfox]

On another thread ScotAirways to EDI in competition with bmi. Can't see bmi giving up the EDI though.

[Jet2LBA]

Yes it's true the LBA-ORK is being scrapped. Apparently something to do with increased fees at Cork because of the new terminal. Something like that anyway.

That, and the fact that next to nobody uses the service seeing as you can get to ORK at a fraction of the price from MAN. Same reason the JER service bit the dust. JER and ORK from LBA are completely uncompetitive charging full service fares when there are low cost options offered from other airports nearby.

[HOODED]

Jet2LBA, Maybe a LCC could take up the route ex LBA to compete with those nearby airports once BMI finish. I'd be surprised if it didn't work on a daily run using a 733 to replace the Emb135 with proper fares. I wonder if there are any silver 733's knocking around at LBA that could be used?

[Pilotdom]

What aircraft is gonna be used by scot airways and when does the route start?

[TANGO100]

AIM-listed Dart Group, parent of Jet2, saw its pre-tax, pre-exceptional profit improve by 5.8% year-on-year to £14.7m in the 12 months to end-March 2006.
Turnover grew by 19.3% to £319.6m, while operating expenses were up 18.8% at £312.1m, which resulted in a full year operating profit of £7.5m (+41.5%). Earnings per share were up 3.4% at 28.9p.

Net debt as at 31 March 2006 stood at £5.5m, compared with net cash of £2.4m a year earlier, following the acquisition of three Boeing 757-200 and one Boeing 737-300 aircraft.

Jet2, which flies to 26 destinations from six bases in the North of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, using a fleet of 22 B737s and three B757s, carried 2.25m passengers during the year.

Dart’s other business is temperature-controlled distribution company Fowler Welch-Coolchain. The group does not split out the results of its two businesses.

[SASfox]

Anyone know how this summer's new routes from LBA are going? Been told the INV usually has around 15 on it. I wonder how the BRS and NQY are doing? Are the October flights to TABA selling well? Also SSH shows in the summer 2007 Panorama brochure but nothing on their website or on LBIA's webpage...any ideas?

[LBA]

I have flown LBA-BRS once, it had 15 people onboard. Must be normally doing better than to sustain 3 flights a day!

[682ft AMSL]

Steve Lee of Jet2 quoted in the Bradford T&A regarding the announcement of 2 new LBA routes to be announced at some point.

682

[A300BOY]

having lost Jersey,Iom,Warsaw and now Cork this year as well as our jewel in the crown Lahore last year lets hope these new routes are announced sooner rather than later and are a sucess ! Yes I know that Manx2 are to operate Iom from August so if all goes well that will be one back.

[LBA]

We have lost those, but compared to last summer scheduled wise, we have gained Inverness, Rome, Milan, Pisa, Mahon, Tenerife, Dusseldorf and soon will have Arrecife start.

On the charter front we have gained Paphos, Rhodes, Bodrum and Heraklion.

Not all bad :).

[Leodis]

Steve Lee of Jet2 quoted in the Bradford T&A regarding the announcement of 2 new LBA routes to be announced at some point.
682

That will be the Las Palmas and Larnaca/Paphos then??

The last time I had chance to speak to the "man in the know", he said that there was much more to come for LBA.

[scamptonboy]

More routes gained than lost good news I agree, but maybe...just maybe, the Jewel in the crown could return?
SWE FLY have been granted permits for India, and are as thier website qoutes " awaiting funding for fleet composition and airline start up"
Now the big question is, will they start the LBA route again???

[A300BOY]

The last I heard they were intending to operate Boeing 777s from India via Sweden to the States so I doubt Leeds would be involved with this new operation but I just drive them not decide where they go !:)

[LBIA]

Swe-fly have the permits rights for the following routes from India via stockholm.

India - Stockholm - New York
India - Stockholm - Tornoto
India - Stockholm - 2 UK Destinations

[lba2006]

India - Stockholm - 2 UK Destinations
Luton and Leeds like last time you think??

[Flightrider]

It's interesting to see that Aero Asia, the Pakistani domestic airline which was grounded last month, has been bought by a Bradford-based company which specialises in bakery & confectionary. They are apparently wanting to develop domestic links and then branch out into UK-Pakistan services. Given their home base in Bradford, I'd say this was one to watch as a possible contender to revive LBA-Lahore / Islamabad.

[682ft AMSL]

Interesting comments in the Yorkshire Post from the head of the Yorkshire Tourist Board re the 'Bollywood' event coming to Yorkshire next year.

"As Judith Donovan, chairman of Yorkshire Tourist Board, says: "It's a four-day event, giving a four weeks' buzz and a four-year business legacy." It has been estimated that GBP10m will be added to the region's economy from tourism alone over the four days, and Mrs Donovan, who said direct flights from India to the region's airports could be introduced in time for the awards, believes that figure will increase to GBP20m per year over the two years following the awards as a direct result of the event."

...wishful thinking on her part or informed speculation re Swefly I wonder? (no guarantee of course that LBA would be the airport the flights would operate from if they did happen)

682

[BombardierCR7]

whether it is LBA or DSA whoever gets the odd press charter....it is a huge coup for Yorkshire...maybe at last, the YTB will show the lead... rather than the Peel arrogance or the LCC intransigence.

Yorkshire beat the best in the world....a combined effort...this brings millions to the region....it beat New York on this.........not Manchester.....if the combined forces of the Yorkshire cities could do this again...then........maybe the airports could do the same...

BTW....Swefly.its EMA and LTN for their UK departure points, rather obvious when you consider the main Indian population areas in the UK

[BombardierCR7]

Cork and Galway just announced from Aer Arann

[egnxema]

BombardierCR7 - where did you get confirmation of the EMA and LTN Swefly programme?

[A300BOY]

Bombadier are you saying Cork and Galway are to served from Leeds by Aer Aerran ?

[Mooncrest]

It would appear that's the case. Each destination four times per week starting in October, using ATR72s. Good for Aer Arran. I really hope they make a go of it.:ok: :ok:

[POL1W]

Just announced is a daily LBA-ABZ-LBA starting 29 October. Their low fares will give Eastern a problem I should think, although FlyBe mid day timings do not allow a business day out. The main loser will probably be Virgin Cross Country in all this. But great news for the leisure traveller none the less.

[SASfox]

Looks like it's an Exeter based aircfraft doing a EXT-LBA-ABZ-LBA-EXT sector. Excellent news. Would love to get a Saturday SZG from Flybe aswell.

[Tommyinyork]

JET2 Rumoured to be gaining a 767-200 for extra capacity.
Unknown where it will come from, but im suspecting it could be from storage.

[14 loop]

Why not a Jet2 to SZG on a Saturday?

[SASfox]

Why not indeed. Always did wonder why Jet2 choose CMF as their 2nd ski destination when GVA is less than 50 miles away. Salzburg, with it's Christmas markets, Mozart and Sound of Music fans is not just a skiers airport! Well worth 3 or 4 flights a week i think.

[jet2impress]

JET2 Rumoured to be gaining a 767-200 for extra capacity.
Unknown where it will come from, but im suspecting it could be from storage.

And your source of this info is? Or did you just fancy spicing up the conversation? :}

[scamptonboy]

Reported on another forum

Scot airway have a PROVISIONAL 3 times a day timetable for LBA as follows:

CB540 EDI 06:50 LBA 07:45 12345.. 30Oct 23Mar
CB541 LBA 08:10 EDI 09:05 12345..

CB544 EDI 14:00 LBA 14:55 12345.. 30Oct 23Mar
CB545 LBA 15:20 EDI 16:15 12345..

CB546 EDI 17:00 LBA 17:55 12345.7 29Oct 18Mar
CB546 LBA 18:20 EDI 19:15 12345.7

Stressed by the other forum: THIS IS NOT YET CONFIRMED

[robo283]

JET2 Rumoured to be gaining a 767-200 for extra capacity.
Unknown where it will come from, but im suspecting it could be from storage.
If this happens wouldn't it make more sense to base it at MAN rather than LBA (unfortunately)? What is the range of a 767-200 with max pax from LBA? I'd love it to be true but will believe it when I see it (playing Devil's Advocate...)

[Flightrider]

I wouldn't bother going down the road of Jet2 and 767s for short-haul capacity. I very much doubt that this indeed is part of the plan and we could spend hours on a hypothetical discussion on a whim.

[robo283]

Flightrider

Well that's me told...:uhoh:

Twenty years ago Britannia operated 767s to exactly the same sort of destination (PMI, AGP, TFS etc). We at Orion had A300s on similar routes so it is feasible. However if you wish I will stay away from hypothesis and stick with rumour!

[A300BOY]

But it might fit in with Lba to New York or other potential long haul routes and a pretty good back up for a sick 757 or 2 737s When I last flew to Florida the captain was an old colleague from Air Anglia days and we had a look what the 767-300 we were in could lift from Leeds runway 32 was restrictive for a direct flight to Orlando subject to headwind and temperature but runway 14 offered a direct option as we have seen with Thomsonfly this year.

[robo283]

Be interesting to see how the economics would look if it was necessary to put in a tech stop at Bangor (or anywhere else for that matter).

[A300BOY]

Not Good I would think so maybe the runway tinkering at Leeds which is rumoured is the next move to give us more landing and take off distance and prevent such a situation.

[Leodis]

A300BOY

This is not a rumour as it is quite clearly stated in the airports 'Masterplan'

[A300BOY]

Good ! That makes me very happy so lets hope the timescale to do it is acceptable before all the long haul flights from and to the Yorkshire region are routed into Dsa which of course has runway length to spare ! Could they lend us some for a few years ? I must get round to reading the masterplan sometime but thanks to Leodis anyway.:)

[L-Band]

A300BOY/LEODIS

From the Masterplan section 4 para 4.4 quote-

The white paper states that a runway extension of some 300 metres may be disirable in the furture. However, the Airport has no plans or operational requirement for a runway extension at the present time. The situation therefore will be reconsidered in furture reviews of the Masterplan for the period of time after 2016. Consequently, the safeguarding of the land for an indicative scheme only is included within this masterplan.

L

[Tommyinyork]

The source regarding the JET2 767 came from LBARULE's on key forum publishing.

[LBA]

Absolute tosh Tommyinyork, as usual your posts are uninformed dribble.

I never started that rumour on there I said...

'I think the 767's are just rumours at the moment mate, I hope they happen and we get some at LBA!'.

Where in that did I start that rumour?

[robo283]

A300BOY/LEODIS
From the Masterplan section 4 para 4.4 quote-
The white paper states that a runway extension of some 300 metres may be disirable in the furture. However, the Airport has no plans or operational requirement for a runway extension at the present time. The situation therefore will be reconsidered in furture reviews of the Masterplan for the period of time after 2016. Consequently, the safeguarding of the land for an indicative scheme only is included within this masterplan.
L

That sounds like a 'Forget it' to me :(

[Leodis]

That sounds like a 'Forget it' to me :(

No, the original quote by A300BOY was

maybe the runway tinkering at Leeds which is rumoured is the next move to give us more landing and take off distance and prevent such a situation.

So L-Band, if you read the LBA Masterplan again you will find a section explaining this. It talks about maximising the length available particularly on runway 14 for landings. It goes on to says that the ILS and lighting are to be modified to increase the available landing distance. It also mentions the upgrade of runway 14 to Cat II status.

A runway extension would be very expensive, although I think that it will be required in the medium to long-term, money has to be spent wisely and you have to ask the question, what comes first? At the moment, the apron is priority which is why the airport is building 4 new aircraft stands. Next on the list will be terminal development, where overcrowding in the departure area needs addressing. After that, short-term parking. A multi-storey carpark is being considered, then back to aircraft parking and so on.

Or we extend the runway today, get the A330's tomorrow and have no parking or terminal space!

[scamptonboy]

Originally posted by robo283
That sounds like a 'Forget it' to me

Why so downbeat my friend? It may seem as though the masterplan statement sounds a little negative. OK a 300m extension would be of great benefit. But what about the other option it goes on to mention?

Hence to procurement of the land surrounding the runway ends for the "other" option. As I understand it, with a bit of landscape restructuring to assist in the the movement of ILS equipment and other landing aids to new locations, would mean the Thresholds in particular the one at Rwy 14 would move nearer the end. Thus giving LBA a little bit more grey stuff to play with. Of course on top of this the Glide slope angles would surely have to change so aircraft approaching on 14 dont get too close to the Chevin!

Now that does sound a little better:D

I have no idea when this could or indeed will happen. But sooner rather than later I'm sure you'll all agree.

[scamptonboy]

Sorry Leodis

YOU BEAT ME TO IT!

[harrogate]

scamptonboy

Don't forget that the 'Masterplan' is only the current owner's vision for the future.
If sold, new owners are likely to be far more aggressive and ambitious with their expansion plans. Add the infrastructure asap to enable the 'best possible scenario' for the airport.
Rest assured there are potential bidders forming their own Masterplans, either based on the official plan, or totally new.
Regards the SweFly route debate people were having - is it an informed debate to talk about the location of Indian populations in the UK in the same breath as flights from Pakistan, or are people making a geographical goof? Given the choice of direct flights to and from India from MAN, versus the hassle, distance and general time implications of indirect routing to / from LBA via Pakistan, I know which most people would plump for.

[robo283]

harrogate

I take the point :O

Moving the thresholds would be more viable than trying to fill in the valley on the approach to 14! They've run out of flat bits now so unless they look at a flyover to take 14 on over Horsforth they are a bit stuck.

I agree the infrastructure is the next bottleneck. The terminal is a nightmare at peak times i.e. during daylight hours.

[harrogate]

robo283

Regards the runway extension, they'll just create more raised ground at the end of 32 and move the minor road if they're serious. This is feasible and likey and is hardly a major feat in engineering. The impact on the environment would be minimal, as essentially it's just a bit more of what's already there. This has been looked at and approved technically by a number of different bodies.

There's a very popular train of thought in the local corridors of power that suggests the official Masterplan purposely underplays the expansion potential, particularly with regards runway extensions. It shows the potential of the landscape well, but the questionable scribblings by the current administration on the drawings are designed, it's argued, to invoke a feeling of "but I'd do this" amongst those who have an interest.

It's almost like a threat to galvanise a response from people like Phillip Meeson to get involved and do the airport's selling work for them... "come and buy it, or we'll do THIS and really **** it up for you".

Remember that civil servants currently run the place, and they aren't going to break their balls over anything. After all, what's worth staying in the office for after 4:30pm?

[robo283]

harrogate

The Masterplan is a government demand so once it is in place I presume it is difficult to change (U turns being the Government's prerogative!). I would hope that anyone buying LBA would be doing so with a positive mindset. Bit of a waste of money otherwise.

What might have happened if the MoD had closed Church Fenton instead of Finningley? We might have lost LBA and had a Greater Yorkshire International Airport instead (not so good for those of us living on the West side of Leeds tho).

[harrogate]

robo283

The government impose a demand just to get the cogs turning. It works well where civil servants are concerned, otherwise nothing would get done.

[robo283]

Something needs doing. I spent the afternoon around the place today. Landside, Jet2 terminal was queueing almost to the door with 2 check in staff (later increased to 8); cars being abandoned all over the place outside and the departure lounge stuffed full with no airconditioning as usual. Thomsonfly 757 gone tech so 220 pax at their wits end getting in the way of Jet2's thousand bomber raid to the costas. Oh joy.

[Evileyes]

Folks we have had to go through and edit 5 posts in a row on this page where the writer decided the rest of us couldn't read the post before theirs so they decided to repeat it in it's entirely via quoting. This is known as Attention Deficit Quoting and won't fly here. It doubles bandwidth expediture for no good reason. Knock it off!

The Mods

[robo283]

oooooooops :\

[NEW-CREW]

Just been looking on flythomascook and seen that if I go on to LBA, theres an option to select POP (Dominican Republic). But if you try to book flights it doesnt allow me to.
Is this just a mistake it being on there or is it a new destination from LBA?

[airhumberside]

LBA is not listed under POP. I would be inclined to say this is a mistake but lets hope not

[LBIA]

(FNC) Maderia-Funchal has now also appeared on the same flythomascook website listed under LBA. This could end up being shared flight with the current Astraeus Monday charters operated for Atlantic Holidays.

So I wonder if thommos are about to announce some new charter runs from LBA?

[airhumberside]

Again LBA is not available under Funchal but with two routes added it seems like too much of a co-incidence to be a mistake

[LBA]

Well LBA probably won't be under either FNC or POP would it, they might not be intending to sell FNC/POP-LBA tickets at this moment in time.

POP would be unbelieveable, lets hope!

[airhumberside]

All UK destinations presently served from POP and Funchal are listed under those destinations. Why would LBA be any different?

[Leodis]

Can Astraeus' long range 737-700 reach the Dominican Republic from Leeds?

[Flightrider]

No!

It can get direct to Funchal though.:)

[robo283]

..at least that's in the right direction I suppose :p

[Jet2Leeds]

Anybody know why tonites flt gone to Durham Tees apart from the obvious ????

[robo283]

No, sorry!

P.S. What's 'the obvious'?:confused:

[HOODED]

LBA website shows it as due 18.10 landed 18.10. Why dio you think it went to MME?

[Jet2Leeds]

Obvious being Pax secondly went atc to Durham to land

[robo283]

No, sorry, I'm even more confused now :confused:

[mmeman]

I am confused at what jet2leeds means too, although does the flight not have a split load between LBA and MME?

[RobT100]

mmeman

Not that I knew of

[ASA Flyer]

I thought it had split loads with MME Too.

[SASfox]

Goldtrail Holidays have added a DLM flight on Monday mornings with OHY from 24th July till the end of the Summer season. Anyone know what loads they are getting on their Bodrum flights?

[robo283]

"does the flight not have a split load between LBA and MME?" *

That's well outside my sphere of knowledge!

* New ADQ-friendly method of referring to previous posts. Bandwidth-efficient and guaranteed to prevent stroppy PMs from the moderators := + :}
:D :)

[Hawk]

Ooerrr..we {{{{shakin'}}}} in our shoes at such efficiency :rolleyes: Nevertheless, thank you for your input.
Seriously, recent posters appear confused..let's keep the thread on track...European summer flights.

[scamptonboy]

Orig quote by SASfox: Extra DLM

It would appear that the news gets better for LBA.

Details as follows:

OHY7334 Dep Mondays 0845 Dates 24/07/06 - 09/09/06

Are sales to Turkey that good? If so this could Bode well for the future!

[Mooncrest]

It's nice to see a raft of good news for our patch. I would very much like to see Aer Lingus return to the fold now. They've been returning to the UK regions in recent years, Bristol, Liverpool and now Newcastle. Twice a day with a 320 would be OK. A full service airline to give Ryanair some competition and to complement the forthcoming Galway flights, not to mention the resumption of Cork.

[LBIA]

Some of Jet2 winter routes are now on sale.

The Leeds Bradford - Geneva is a daily service with a second flight on Saturdays. Also a new Leeds Bradford - Salzburg route has been announced operating 4 times weekly.

[ashmac33]

Goldtrail mondays to DLM have a capacity of 315 bookable seats from LBA. This suggests it will be a Large aircraft, probably ONUR A300! Great yet another flight we have to cover! Good for lba though!

Ash

[SASfox]

Great news about SZG. Just a shame it doesn't start at the end of November for the Christmas Markets. PM in his press release even states that the flights will be popular due to the markets, but with the 1st flight not due to leave until mid December you can only do 1 weekend there before Christmas and that means landing back at LBA on Christmas Eve.

[robo283]

PM mentions GVA, SZG and BGY but doesn't mention CMF..... is Chambery going by the wayside or is this an oversight?

[robo283]

Thanks; that will teach me not to check the small print. Seriously though, why doesn't CMF rate the same sort of mention as the others? Along with GVA it was operated from LBA last Winter but it reads almost as if PM is not yet thoroughly convinced.

Also, I can't see a news announcement on the jet2 news page but it gets headline treatment on the www.LBIA.co.uk site.

[scamptonboy]

Don't know is the answer to that one....Off sick or just hard to keep up with all the announcements, who knows.

Pretty good week for Jet2 all said and done, and long may it continue.

Now all we need to top it off is a long haul Ski destination from Jet2...say Aspen Colorado!!!!

Whoops Im dreaming again.:{

[Leodis]

The Chambery service was hated vociferously by the Jet2 crews last year because of the airports location. Many had said to me that they would prefer not to fly there at all.

[robo283]

I thought the airport's location with have been purely of technical interest given that the average turnround is 30 mins. Or is it because the airport is in France, home of so many Lazy Grenouilles ;)

[BombardierCR7]

The DLM for Goldtrail has been on and off sale for the last 48 hours. At the moment it is ON sale.
Goldtrail wanted to share on the First Choice DLM operated by SunExpress on a Monday - not possible, but were however given a top deal by Onur to operate this for themselves.
Aircraft type will depend on loads, aircraft avaliability and the wind and the rain on the day etc.....
More important the flight is subject to an additional sharer on the flight, the latter being the real decider whether this will happen or not.
________
Thomas Cook Puerto Plata is a clerical mistake.
Funchal will however be direct for S07, Thomas Cook will share, with Atlantic, and it is expected that next week MyTravel will also announce they will share on this flight also.

[Leodis]

BombardierCR7

Were the rumours about Thomas Cook having a second based or part based aircraft untrue then? Also, can we still expect more? It makes me wonder if Thomas Cook wanted to see how many hits they'd recieve on their website from West Yorkshire if they said that a service to POP would be operating?

Still a few announcements to come me thinks:hmm: .

[BombardierCR7]

Thomas Cook POP? No, it was a clerical error...dont read more into the situation than is reality.

Thomas Cook aswell of others will hope to increase their seat capacity on some routes from LBA in S07, but highly unlikely to be an additional aircraft, more like a larger aircraft. Don't forget although some routes are doing well for Thomas Cook and its sharers, some are abysmal..such as Corfu at the moment...so lets hold back with the expectations for next year...there are many months to go..

[LBA]

If MyTravel/Thomas Cook/Atlantic share the Funchal route, does that mean it will route LBA-FNC as opposed to LBA-CWL-FNC?

Lets hope all goes well with the Goldtrail flights, been put on sale very late. The Corfu flights that you said are doing poor were also put on sale very late, indeed the first flight of the series only operated last night.

[BombardierCR7]

Funchal - If you read my post again you will answer your question.

The Corfu has been on sale for 5 month, not "late" in my book. It needs a sharer.

[LBIA]

Funchal will however be direct for S07, Thomas Cook will share,

Dont you mean it i'll First Choice that shares?, Thomas Cook and My Trvael don't wont anything to do with this flight?

Also don't forget it' sthe Corfus thats contining into next summer, It's the Zante-Zakythos thats not doing good this summer.

So of you guys need to get your facts right

[BombardierCR7]

Dont you mean it i'll First Choice that shares?, Thomas Cook and My Trvael don't wont anything to do with this flight?
Also don't forget it' sthe Corfus thats contining into next summer, It's the Zante-Zakythos thats not doing good this summer.
So of you guys need to get your facts right

Nope incorrect as usual from you. I'm not sure of your obsession with First Choice, (remember your first post!) but they have no involvement with the Funchal and never have had.

Judging by your spelling mistakes..this is an alcolhol induced post.

Read my post again..I said Corfu was an example of a route that was not doing well....but not the only one.

Check your own facts.

[airhumberside]

So will Funchal be with a larger aircraft (B757?)

[LBA]

LBA
I would suggest you get your English and speeling checked out first:rolleyes:

Ahem, thats LBIA ;).

I see it now Bombardier, I must not have been reading your post properly!

[LBIA]

Well I stand corrected BombardierCR7. I've got First choice in me head for some reason. Don't know why??

Judging by your spelling mistakes..this is an alcolhol induced post.

You got that in one as well.

Really can't remember sending that post last night. I only got in that state after watching England lose yet again on penalties. Will we ever win???

[ashmac33]

First AEU CFU for thomas cook went out on full capacity- next weeks is almost fully booked. Hardly abismal???

[A300BOY]

Any news on the proposed Edinburgh route ? is it still going to happen ? or has it been ditched ?

[BombardierCR7]

ashmac, it's the yield that counts, not the load.

LBIA, don't worry about it we all have our off days. First Choice are supposed to be looking at extra capacity out of LBA for S07 anyway, whether that is additional seats on existing flights or additional flights I have no idea, but they may end up on the Funchal anyway. The positive thing is the fact that the Funchal should be direct next summer.

[Jet2Leeds]

Anybody listening out on atc What has been the Emergency tonite with the plane staying in overnite

and being held on taxiway Delta

Any thing to to with the thunder n lightning

Jersy 175

[LBA]

ashmac, it's the yield that counts, not the load.
LBIA, don't worry about it we all have our off days. First Choice are supposed to be looking at extra capacity out of LBA for S07 anyway, whether that is additional seats on existing flights or additional flights I have no idea, but they may end up on the Funchal anyway. The positive thing is the fact that the Funchal should be direct next summer.

Surely a full 73G flying down to CFU would be making money? Or are they selling the holidays incredibly dirt cheao?

[Jet2Leeds]

Any body know why this flt not list on lbia today dept to belfast aldergrove

[Pilotdom]

There were a couple of icidents today. First of Jet2 aborted take-off, anybody know why? I got to the airport about 30mins after this happend and no-body knew why?

Flybe 146 aparantly problems with landing gear. Active runway was 14 however aircraft made a fly-by of 32 for tower to inspect landing gear and then circled to land on 14 without icident. Crew told atc aircraft would be tech for a while and wouldnt be going anywhere so requested a remote stand.

Would be intrigued to know what caused the abort of jet2.

Also there was a rabbit strike at some point today.

The weather was shocking aswell

[RobT100]

Any body know why this flt not list on lbia today dept to belfast aldergrove

The flight was on the list earlier today. Funnily enough at about the time this was due i heard an aircraft holding on SW side, perhaps theer was problems with the other situations so it ended up diverting ???

Any info anyone ??

[Pilotdom]

BH landed at Leeds at 20:30 local. Using an Airbus a320.

[scamptonboy]

News from a friend:

Another Saudi Herc callsign RSAF906 due today at around 1730 local.:ok:

Regards

[SASfox]

FNC is now on sale with Thomson for next Summer. Flight times are LBA-FNC 1230-1605 FNC-LBA 1705-2040.
Winter flights with Atlantic Holidays to FNC are not on sale yet? This year they started in mid Feb i think but no word on their web site of any flights this Winter.

[Pilotdom]

Any idea when the herc is due to depart again? I presume tomorow sometime?

[BombardierCR7]

Principle is now First Choice on FNC for S07, not Atlantic as in this year, Perhaps FC don't want to start the route as early as Atlantic.

Thomas Cook, Thomson, Atlantic confirmed as the sharers ex LBA, and expected also My Travel for S07.

LBIA (the poster not the airport!), I chopped your wrists off too quick, I apologise...First Choice have an involment as you stated, rather significant, I got my "Principles" as in tour operators mixed up.:)

[SASfox]

Anyone know what the loads have been like for the FNC flights this year? Is it a 50-50 split with CWL?

[LBA]

Principle is now First Choice on FNC for S07, not Atlantic as in this year, Perhaps FC don't want to start the route as early as Atlantic.
Thomas Cook, Thomson, Atlantic confirmed as the sharers ex LBA, and expected also My Travel for S07.
LBIA (the poster not the airport!), I chopped your wrists off too quick, I apologise...First Choice have an involment as you stated, rather significant, I got my "Principles" as in tour operators mixed up.:)

You would think that four tour operators sharing one flight would warrant more than the 73G, could we see the hinted 757? Nice to see that FNC is contuning, and more tour operators offering holidays there.

[Flightrider]

One tour operator has generated around 40 seats per week on FNC this year; multiply that by four (Atlantic, Thos Cook, First Choice and Thomson) and you should be able to comfortably get to 148. 201 might be a stretch. It is rather better to have 148 full seats on a 148 seater than 148 seats and 53 empties on a 201 seater!

[LBA]

40x4 was 160 last time I checked ;).

[MerchantVenturer]

SASfox

The CAA figures for 2006 are as follows for LBA and CWL to/from FNC - CWL shown first each time.

Feb: 167 165 total 332
March: 510 253 total 763
April: 502 275 total 777
May (provisional): 601 289 total 890

This suggests the loads are approximately 2 to 1 in CWL's favour (apart from Feb when presumably the route was started or re-started for the winter period).

Assuming four rotations per month (eight flights) there was still a bit of space on the aircraft on average each month, if a 148-seat aircraft is being used.

As a comparison here are the CAA figures for some other smaller regional airports to/from FNC. I believe these airports have one rotation a week but not shared as with LBA/CWL.

March: EXT 1380 BRS 1657 NCL 1172 EMA 1610
April: EXT 1215 BRS 1616 NCL 1241 EMA 1415
May (provisional): EXT 1508 BRS 1984 NCL 1226 EMA no figure, presumably no flight.

[Flightrider]

40 x 4 does indeed equal 160, but there aren't many 160-seat aircraft around unless you want an old crate of an MD83, which I don't imagine would go down too well with the fine citizens of Horsforth.

It is a curious LBA phenomenon that people never quite seem to be happy with their lot in life and always want more, no matter how positive the news to begin with.:ugh:

[robo283]

"It is a curious LBA phenomenon that people never quite seem to be happy with their lot in life and always want more, no matter how positive the news to begin with".

Welcome to Yorkshire, Flightrider! :E :ok:

[wawkrk]

More popular from CWL because its a direct flight ?

[Leodis]

Flightrider

Indeed. I think it must have something to do with years of having to travel accross the Pennines. Things are slowly changing for the better, with more flights and choice year by year.

Lets hope we have more good news on the way.;)

[Going loco]

The phenomonan is purely and simply borne out of expectations. People look at other airports, read these boards, more than likely travel over to MAN themselves and quite rightly ask the question why doesn't LBA do better for charter flights. People believing that LBA should be getting a 3rd and 4th based aren't going to be swayed by FNC going direct. I grew up in the area and left for the South Coast 8 years ago. Just before I left I met a senior marketing bod at LBA at a corporate do and he agreed with me that it was crucial the airport got a 3rd and then a 4th based charter aircraft. Thomas Cook and First Choice were the targets but 8 years later people are still have the same discussion. That means it's a pipe dream, in which case someone needs to explain why and we can put it to bed once and for all. But If it's achievable, then lets discuss why it isn't happening rather than worrying about minor changes in the programme.

loco

PS - I see the airport are looking for a new ops director

http://www.lbia.co.uk/pdf/Advert.pdf

[scamptonboy]

Going loco

This comes round all the time.

In my mind there are many limiting factors that restrict current charter operations from LBA. And one is being currently addressed as we all know.

1. Terminal space
2. Apron space
3. Runway length / tinkering
4. Doncaster Robin Hood

Now don't get me wrong, good for Donny on their part but that has to be one major factor surely? And of course Money Money Money.

The sooner someone buys into the airport the better chance we have of getting some sort of result out of the masterplan.

[Flightrider]

Hmmm. Discussions seven or eight years ago about introducing a third or fourth based charter aircraft to LBA are absolutely irrelevant in the current market structure. In case it had escaped everyone's notice, Jet2 have what - eight, ten? - aircraft based at LBA now operating to a significant number of [charter] destinations like Palma, Malaga, Alicante, Faro, Tenerife etc. You cannot reasonably expect significant growth in the charter market for as long as the low-cost sector is going around hoovering up former charter routes! Arguably, you could say that LBA has 13 or 14 based charter aircraft if you class the Jet2 fleet as such. I know you can't; but the point I'm making is that you can't just look at the two based charter aircraft in isolation and say "it's not enough - we need more".

Life has moved on; as it has at many other regional airports. The airport has moved forwards from struggling to reach 1m pax per year to 2.5m per year, which was unthinkable less than five years ago. It has done this with the disadvantages referred to by Scampton Boy and one more, in my opinion - dreadful road access from Leeds and Bradford cities. On my last trip, I drove from LBA to south Bradford; and then from south Bradford to Manchester Airport. Guess which took me the longest time? Road access to LBA is dire - congested, slow roads with a myriad of roundabouts, traffic lights and low speed limits.

Anyway, you might be pleasantly surprised by another new move over the next week or so if direct flights to Funchal aren't quite enough to get you excited!

PS - robo283, I was born in Keighley and as such, require little in the way of a welcome to Yorkshire!

[scamptonboy]

Flightrider

Anyway, you might be pleasantly surprised by another new move over the next week or so if direct flights to Funchal aren't quite enough to get you excited

WHAT... NO CLUES THEN?

[Going loco]

Hello - fair point about Jet2 but it just raises more questions than it answers. I don't believe for a minute that Jet2 have hoovered up ALL of LBAs charter demand OK, they've gone into Spain and Portugal in a big way but I don't see a single flight in their timetable to Greece, Turkey, Bulgaria, Malta, Cyprus, Croatia, Southern Italy, Tunisia, Egypt, Florida or Canada. But when I last looked, LBA had a lower number of flights to some of these places than HUY or MME let alone somewhere like NCL or BRS or EMA..

Also, if Jet2 are that big of an issue why is about 80% of TUIs capacity from Leeds this season on routes that Jet2 do fly??? If they are happy competing on PMI, IBZ, MAH and ALC then why not put a second aircraft in to do the routes where they have no competition.

If Jet2 have suffocated charter at Leeds, why haven't the loco services at NCL, BRS or East Mids had any impact at those airports. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but charter services at those airports have actually grown over the last few years.

Where are all the charter passengers coming from at MAN. MAN is bigger than LGW for many charter routes and that's not possible without getting a lot of custom from Yorkshire and its environs. Proof surely that the demand is still there regardless of what Jet2 are doing, so why can't LBA pick it up?

loco

PS - so, Centralwings doing 3 - weekly EDI-WAW on top of other routes announced after their Leeds pull out. Don't think the 'lack of equipment' argument stands up anymoe , so what really happened.

[LBIA]

Hi

By the looks of things a new charter route is to be announced from LBA acording to the LBIA's website destination page http://www.lbia.co.uk/flightsandholidays-gambia.php

The New Banjul flights for Gambia Experiance are to be operated by Astreaus B737-700 every Wednesdays from December 20th 2006 till 7th March 2007 and will operate via Bournemouth.

[robo283]

"PS - robo283, I was born in Keighley and as such, require little in the way of a welcome to Yorkshire!"

My apologies! :O

[Going loco]

sorry to harp on about this but I've just seen the pax numbers for MAN in June where they had 1 million charter passengers in the month alone. LBA will have about 40,000 i bet when the final numbers are published. Now I know MAN is a bigger catchment area, but is it really 25 times bigger? So are people prepared to agree that many of these passengers MUST be coming from LBA's doorstep and that 4 based aircraft at the very least has to be high on LBA's agenda?

loco

[LBIA]

Going loco: Never Mind 4 based Charter units! How's about a 3rd first.

One year it might really happen, But the real question is when & Who???

First Choice, Thomas Cook, Excel Airways or Monarch take you pick.

[682ft AMSL]

I don't think there is any doubt the demand is there. I would think around 10-15% of MAN's charter throughput originates in LBA's core catchment area - added to the existing traffic that would give the airport a charter base of 150,000 - 175,000 a month in high season in the unlikely event it could all be repatriated back to LBA. Not disimilar to what passes through Newcastle, Nottingham and Bristol so it passes the logic test for me. However, the question is whether the tour operators (and let's remember it is primarily a tour operator and not an airline decision) would see any benefit in moving their capacity out of MAN and into LBA to serve this demand. They are unlikely to find an airline to be cheaper on a per-seat basis given the scale economies of their own in-house airlines at MAN and they are unlikely to want the risk given they know they can pull passengers across to fill seats at MAN. In short, unless one of the operators decides to pursue a break-out strategy and go into airports like LBA in the hope it will grow their overall market share, I don't see LBA getting anywhere near 100,000 passengers a month (akin to Cardiff) let alone 150,000. That said, the Excel / Freedom Flights / Libra combo seem convinced they can fill an -800 out of HUY with a full programme and they do seem generally quite pro-regional, so maybe they offer an opportunity.

682

[aeulad]

In terms of XL 'thinking' they can fill an -800 out of Humberside, they are infact operating on behalf of the big tour operators, they are not selling the flights on their own.

ALC Mytravel, Thomson
ACE Mytravel, Thomas Cook, Thomson
CFU Kosmar
HER Kosmar, Libra, Mytravel, Olympic
LPA Mytravel, Thomas Cook, Thomson
AGP Mytravel
PMI Mytravel
PFO Libra, Olympic
RHO Kosmar, Libra, Olympic
SSH Mytravel
TFS First Choice, Mytravel

Regards

Mike

[scamptonboy]

LBIA website now officailly announces the winter rote to Banjul.
Its taken a while to release the news but , good news non the less.

heres the link
http://www.lbia.co.uk/newsandupdates-newsstory.php?storyid=20060714

Flights also loaded onto gambia.co.uk but the silly beggars have messed up on the flight dates at the moment!

I sincerely hope the route does well.:D :D :D

[LBA]

ALC - Thomson, MyTravel (1x757, 1x73G), as well as two Jet2 flights a day.
ACE - First Choice, Thomas Cook, Airtours (1xA320)
CFU - Thomson, First Choice, Thomas Cook (1x757, 1x73G)
HER - Thomas Cook, Airtours, Olympic (1x73G)
LPA - Airtours, Thomson (1x73G)
AGP - Thomson, Airtours (1x757, 1x73G), as well as two Jet2 flights a day
PMI - Thomson, Airtours, First Choice, Thomas Cook (3x757, 1x73G, 3x738), as well as two Jet2 flights a day.
PFO - Thomson (1x757)
RHO - Thomas Cook, Airtours, Olympic (1x73G)
SSH - N/A
TFS - Thomson, Thomas Cook, Airtours (1x757, 1x738), as well as two flights a week from Jet2.

How the LBA programme comapres on the same routes.

[Pilotdom]

anybody know why the KLM to amsterdam is delayed from LBA this afternoon due to leave at 1705 local? I have family onboard.

[SASfox]

Looks like the MIR flights for next summer have been pulled already. MIR never sells from LBA. Wonder why?

[Going loco]

It will never sell if it is never left on sale. Goldtrail didn't even put their Bodrum on sale until January this year and are filling their A321 if the data I
i've just seen from the CAA is accurate. So pulling something off of sale 10 months befire the first flight tells me they just don't want to operate the flight, or can't get the aircraft to do it.

loco

[SASfox]

Anyone know what Onur Air are using for their 1st DLM flight in the morning? Any idea of loads aswell?

[RobT100]

SASfox

It will be the A300 SASfox !

Very poor news about the Monastir flight - it can't have had a chance, its hardly been on sale 2 minutes for 2007. Some politics going on here me thinks !

[682ft AMSL]

Not knowing much about them, I had a nosey on the Goldtrail website today and happened to notice that if LBA is selected as a departure option, Antalya is listed in addition to Bodrum and Dalaman and also TFS and PMI. Nothing seems to be uploaded for 2007 yet so one can go no further in the booking process, but perhaps a hint of some expansion from them when next years programme is released.

682

[airhumberside]

Antalya, Bodrum, Dalaman, Palma and Tenerife are listed as options from all UK airports so I wouldn't read much into that although hopefully Goldtrail will expand at LBA in the future

[Leodis]

On a similar note, Jet2 have added Chambery back onto their booking engine. So it looks like it will be returning for the winter season.

[GLOBUSAIR]

One thing iam suprised is not discussed here much is Eastern Airways and the competition it is about to face.

In the past year we have seen Flybe move in on T3's flagship Southampton Route, the airlines attitude towards this was nonchlant but Flybe has enjoyed fantasitc load factors and with a 2 daily timetable now in place it has taken business from Eastern no doubt.

Eastern clearly saw the writting on the cards and the J32 was quickly withdrawn from the LBA-ABZ route and like many of us predicted... Flybe have now announced rotations on this route too. True, the phase out of the JS32 is part of Easterns longterm plans i imagine but i can remember from dispatching the 32 on this route that pax main complaint was the noise and reliability factor of the aircraft...

Eastern now operating a 41 base at LBA but as you can appreciate... they dont come near the comfort and performance of the D8Q400 / 146's that Flybe will use on the route.

Eastern also pulled a vital airlink from Leeds this year... a service that has operated from LBA for many many years was the IOM. This sudden withdrawl made many peoples lives difficult and surely did little for the T3 image.

T3 have however introduced a new Inverness rotation, but it is only once daily... it would be interesting to know the load factors on this.

When you considder the facts; T3's shock inducing Fares ( in the hundreds to fly to ABZ) .. Older aircraft... the airline does not operate flights on Saturday...!!!! ....

It doesnt look very good for Eastern.. i hope they pull up their socks and sort something out. Purely because i enjoy the variation at LBA these days... but Flybe is moving in fast and i wouldnt be suprised if they re-instate a base at the LBA in the near future..

What does everyone else think? ... Is Eastern perhaps more interested in its new baby hub at CWL

:) excuse the spelling... was in a rush :eek:

[airhumberside]

Eastern will probably do OK at LBA in the short term. On the SOU route, Eastern caters for LBA business passengers going to SOU and Flybe caters for SOU business passengers going to LBA. And on ABZ, the new Flybe route isn't likely to attract many business passengers at once daily

However in the future if BE go double daily on ABZ with an LBA aircraft and maybe even do SOU with an LBA based aircraft then I would be concerned about Eastern's future at LBA

With regards to CWL, they haven't introduced the ABZ route they originaly announced they would fly from there. Their current focus seems to be routes to Brussels

[PTH needs tarmac]

I don't follow you 100% but Eastern still operate LBA-ABZ 3x per weekday and once on Sundays with J41s. I believe the the J32s were withdrawn because the leases were ending and they had the opportunity to standardise with J41s brought from the US. This also provided a small capacity boost for some routes. Quite a sensible move on the face of it.

The Flybe announcement of their EXT-LBA-ABZ route came much more recently.

Passenger numbers on LBA-SOU certainly have risen since Flybe increased to twice per weekday (7683 in June 2006 according to CAA Stats), but the split between Flybe and Eastern is not clear.

The removal of the LBA-IOM service may have inconvenienced a few passengers (just 680 in June 2005), though the LBA-INV route has yet to prove its worth with only 599 passengers in June 2006. That's all past history as IOM residents will shortly have a TWICE daily service with Manx2 to enjoy themselves on.

I will agree that the Eastern route network does appear vulnerable to the likes of LCC airlines with <100 seat aircraft. Eastern seem to have quit some routes without much of a fight (eg MAN-STN) but then keep on with the likes of LBA-SOU. Without knowing the yields this is all an academic discussion.

PTH

PS Flybe already have a "base" at LBA, at least in Flybe speak. The describe all destinations as bases (eg LBA, DSA), even though many of us would expect an aircraft/crew to be stationed/"based" before using the term.

[GLOBUSAIR]

Iam really suprised that the INV has not pulled in better loads, time will tell i guess.

Yes it is annoying how Flybe refer to outstations as a "base".. when we all clearly know they do not nightstop aicraft ( unless they get poorly :\ ) ... and no crew room at LBA for some time now.

Indeed it is true that T3 is the business mans airline, attracting a certain elite of pax when BA pulled out of LBA... but for how long will the business man stay with T3. Nine times out of ten... its not the bum on the seat that paid the ticket... its the company.... and they are becoming more and more driven by travel costs.

Its ubbbbbber expensive to fly with T3!!

Across the board you can really see Flybe are targetting T3 directly on a number of routes... not just Leeds. I guess thats because they are the only true competition.... ScotAirways..Southwest..Manx2 are all serving different markets so its just T3 and FLYBE head to head.

:8

[RobT100]

GLOBUSAIR

Yes they are expensive and you are correct travel costs have become a major focus by companies. I work for a major blue chip company and where they can will now insist on LCC's (from any airport) or economy seats for us and even top management. Business class is a thing of the past and so will T3be if they carry on with such a price structure.

On another note, I'd not be surprised if the people who rely on the IOM service are glad to see the back of T3 and a warm welcome to Manx2, due to the price.

[GLOBUSAIR]

yes, i really hope manx2 does well but long term it will have to look at its fleet. they are doing the right thing by starting small and running a very economic aircraft on lease agreement.... but doubt it will be a popular choice with the pax... even the JS32 wins up against a LET.

T3 did well to pull in the loads it did for so long.. this was purely because many of its pax used the service to travel to relatives on the IOM or vise versa.... and to be honest many of the pax were elderley and purely paid £100'sssss for the ease of LBA travel.. otherwise it was the M62 route and Manchester hell!!!!

The 2 daily manx2 service will really work i think and looking at the price scales.. its even going to attract day trippers!!!

..... iam going to go do a price match me thinks with T3 and FLYBE... see what the result is

[GLOBUSAIR]

Ive priced up a basic LBA-SOU ... as a Day Return and a one night stay with both FLYBE and Eastern. The Travel date is August 8th.. not exactly last minute but typical of a booking to attend a meeting.. arranged a month or so ahead...

The conclusion... LBA-SOU remains a pricey route... but clearly there is a big gap between the T3 & Flybe fare..

FLYBE
8TH AUG
DAY RETURN
08:40/09:45
18:20/1925 £141.98 TOT :rolleyes:

RETURN 9TH £101.98 TOT :}

EASTERN
8TH AUG
DAY RETURN
06:50/08:05
19:15/20:25 £230.70 TOT :yuk:

RETURN 9TH £230.70 TOT :yuk:

I was suprised to be honest Flybe was that expensive.. but then you have to remember its School Holidays and leisure pax will use the service ... not to mention Cruise Pax... but as you can see the T3 fare is a joke. Its a 50 minute flight!!! Also.. same fare even if your not on a day return.

I also found the flybe timings to be a little better... T3 is a very early flight in fairness and if your off down to a meeting... you are not going to be your best if you have been up since 0400am at least for your 50 minute flight.

Flybe seem to have really looked at their timings and despite what some people say they are infact wanting to attract business pax.. their timetable is clearly designed round a business persons day.

Cant wait to see what happ's on the ABZ route,. i think it to will become a twice daily.

Would any of you lot seriousley pay £230 to go to Southampton???

[fredtheanorak]

no but I'd pay £230 to get out of SOU to anywhere! Rubbish footie teamand night life not a patch on BOH. Here's a teaser. Has anyone ever found a flybe lo-cost ticket as advertised? If anyone needed a low fare finder on their website to prove these fares exist its FlyMaybe. The TOM one is really good.

[GLOBUSAIR]

has anyone ever got a ticket with a lcc at the billboard prices lol....

and as for low fare finders... hmmmm not convinced

[HOODED]

Yup, sure have try the Jet2 website their Low fare finder is spot on. Just remember the taxes though!

[scamptonboy]

SASfox Anyone know what Onur Air are using for their 1st DLM flight in the morning? Any idea of loads aswell?

Dalaman flight with the Onur Air A300......310 pax

Excellent load

Popular route, hope it continues!

[SASfox]

CMF now on sale for the Winter with Jet2. 2 flights a week on Saturdays and Sundays. Any news if the Taba flights are selling well for October with AEU?

[GLOBUSAIR]

Hey.. afew friends of mine working on the High Street hinted huge interest in the Egypt route from Leeds with AEU.. I dont know if the current issues in that region will slow things down? Hope not, it would be a shame to see the flight cancelled when the Tunisia is already gone!

Still, the Banjul was a welcomed announcement. Lets hope it does well. :}

[freightdoggy dog]

Fredtheanorak,

have to agree m8,

The Scummers are a joke, thats why Harry got em relegated, job done, sorted it geezer and still they couldn't work it out.

[felixflyer]

Does anyone know why the Flybe service to aberdeen doesnt start until October?

Surely comparing prices with Eastern(:eek: ) this route would work for them. I may be starting work in Aberdeen soon and this would be a godsend.

[Charlie Roy]

felixflyer

Maybe if you ring Flybe up and ask them nicely enough they'll start the service earlier :rolleyes:

You have a point though: Eastern's fares are gobsmacking. How are they surviving?

[SASfox]

Haven't seen any pax figures for the last few months. Any idea if the airport is on course for 3 million pax this year?

[wawkrk]

More than 309,000 pax in July.

wawkrk

[scamptonboy]

SASfox..... here you go.

Pax figures for LBA last 4 months. All taken from CAA website except Jul which is still provisional data.

Apr 2006 220230 % +10.3
May 2006 259820 % +9.9
Jun 2006 298858 % +11.2
Jul 2066 309329 % +10.1

Encouraging figures. I think if this trend continues over the remainder of the summer period in particular, LBA is well on track for 3 mil plus. :)

[airhumberside]

You have a point though: Eastern's fares are gobsmacking. How are they surviving?
On some routes the compeition has been too much and Eastern have pulled off (e.g STN-MAN). However on others Eastern are still doing well because they can offer something the opposition can't.

Using the example of LBA-SOU, Flybe cater for SOU business travellers but Eastern have survived as their flights are timed for Leeds business travellers. And on LBA-ABZ, Eastern should do fine for now as Flybe schedule's doesn't allow for day trips where as Eastern's does

[darren1]

The prices both BE and T3 charge on their LBA-SOU routes prove just how popular it is. At these prices yields must be good too. Besides T3 wouldn't charge these prices if they couldn't sell seats.

[682ft AMSL]

SASfox..... here you go.
Encouraging figures. I think if this trend continues over the remainder of the summer period in particular, LBA is well on track for 3 mil plus. :)

I'm sure someday the airport will pass 3m passengers in a rolling 12 month period, but it won't be any time soon unless there are a few surprises lined up for winter. Best guess for 2006 is 2.8m; maybe a touch over.


Using the example of LBA-SOU, Flybe cater for SOU business travellers

The flybe service is timed to suit day returns from both the LBA and SOU end, as is the T3 service.

[airhumberside]

682ft AMSL

Having loked at the times, yes - but the Eastern service offers LBA passengers longer in SOU than the Flybe service does and the Flybe service offers SOU passengers longer in LBA than the Eastern service does. So both airlines can offer something the opposition can't

[scamptonboy]

682ft AMSL
I'm sure someday the airport will pass 3m passengers in a rolling 12 month period, but it won't be any time soon unless there are a few surprises lined up for winter. Best guess for 2006 is 2.8m; maybe a touch over.


Indeed its a difficult one to call my friend, I hope that LBA does very well for itself this year. I'm sure that we would all be delighted if LBA hit the magical 3M this year. Previous years passenger figures indicate we are edging closer and closer to another milestone.

The past 4 yearly totals have proved a healthy growth in pax numbers.

2002 1,530,019
2003 2,017,609 up by 487,590
2004 2,368,602 up by 350,993
2005 2,609,606 up by 241,004

So if the the figures stabalise around 240,00 then your 2.8 Mil is spot on. But Autumn/Winter 06 has some potential to boost it even more surely?

Additional / Re-instated / New routes call them what you will, such as:
Dusseldorf, Arrecife, Salzburg, Bergamo, Krakow, Taba, Banjul, Las Palmas,
Aberdeen, IOM, Gallway & Cork. Hopefully thes will add more fuel to the fire. Granted some are only short term, and at the back end of the year but I hope it works out well.

682ft AMSL I'm going to stick with my 3 million and if I'm right you owe me a pint and if your 2.8 and a bit is the final figure then It will be me who owes you a pint.....DEAL? If its 2.9 then its a draw and we'll all still be happy.:ok: CHEERS FELLA

[RAFAT]

scamptonboy - is Bergamo a new Jet2 service?

[scamptonboy]

Hello RAFAT,

No my friend, but you could place it in the additional routes category as the route was not operated last winter.

I apologise about that part of the original post, I didn't make it clear enough.

Cheers

[RAFAT]

Hi scamptonboy, thanks for clarifying that.

Our airline used to nightstop in Bergamo but don't anymore, and I would love to go back and spend the occasional long weekend there, but unfortunately I don't know of anyone except Ryanair (and I certainly will never use them) that flies from the UK to Bergamo.

[scamptonboy]

Glad to be of sevice RAFAT, hope you consider using Jet2 if you go backto Bergamo.:ok:

[Leodis]

RobT100

I have been informed that there are no more flights to announce for the winter. Mind you, looks like next summer could be interesting.;)

[SASfox]

So how many charters a week are we left with now for this winter? Must be less than 10. Is this the worst winter for charters since the mid 80's?

[LBIA]

Winter 2006/07 charters for LBA currently stands as follows.

Mondays
Tuesdays
Malta 12:00 FHE321 11:15 FHE320 MD90 01/11/06-
Wednesdays
Banjul 07:30 AEU--- 00:25 AEU--- B737-700 20/12/06-30/03/07
Arrecife 11:20 TOM4185 20:45 TOM4186 B737-800 04/10/06-26/10/06
Thursdays
Taba 14:55 AEU--- 02:55* AEU--- B737-700 05/10/06-16/11/06
Arrecife 15:00 IWD3450 13:35 IWD3449 A320 02/11/06-26/04/07
Fridays
Tenerife 12:00 TOM6163 22:00 TOM6164 B737-800 03/11/06-27/04/07
Saturdays
Chambery 07:30 AEU--- 19:00 AEU--- B737-300 16/12/06-14/04/07
Innsbruck 15:55 AUA2376 15:10 AUA2375 Fokker 70 24/12/06-28/04/07
Alicante 16:20 TOM4166 15:00 TOM4167 B757-200 04/11/06-28/04/07
Sundays

Cruises
Simply Caribbean November 2nd 2006 Thomsonfly B767 P&O
Caribbean classis December 1st 2006 Thomsonfly B767 P&O
Caribbean Gold December 22nd 2006 Thomsonfly B767 P&O
Caribbean Gold February 16th 2007 Thomsonfly B767 P&O
Bremar February 17th 2007 Thomsonfly B767 Fred Olsean
Mexican Magic March 9th 2007 Thomsonfly B767 P&O

Day Trips
Lapland 01 December Transun
Norway Orca Safari 02 December Transun
Lapland 03 December Transun
Lapland 08 December Transun
Lapland Extravaganza09 December Canterbury
Lapland Dream22 December Canterbury

And Thats the lot

[airhumberside]

What does this mean for the part based TOM aircraft? Will that not now happen?

[SASfox]

Can't believe that PMI is missing again for the winter. 2 years ago Jet2 operated 2 a week on Tue and Sat. Last year nothing and looks like the same again this winter. As we, as a family have a place in Mallorca my poor mother will have to fly down to me then catch the bmi LHR-PMI flt instead of a direct flight from LBA:ugh:
Don't get me wrong, i've flown Jet2 on half a dozen flights and never had a delay or any problems with them but sometimes they do weird thing like discontinue the PMI over the winter months. Market and promote the SZG flights as ideal for Christmas markets even though they don't start till the 3rd week in December which is impossible to get a weekend there before Christmas! The Krakow flights leave at 6pm on a Saturday evening and return early Tuesday...hardly handy for a weekend away is it.

[Flightrider]

The TUI programme is a 737-800 on the based unit, not a 757. Only the Alicante on Saturdays (a W pattern from DSA) is a 757.

[LBIA]

I've Edited the above list. Thanks flightrider.

[682ft AMSL]

RobT100

I imagine all TUI really want to do over winter is mitigate their losses. Prior to today's news. TUI had 4 x weekly flights on MAN-LPA, 2 x weekly DSA-LPA and 1 x weekly LBA-LPA. 7 in total, but if there is only aggregate demand for 6 flights a week across the Northl, it's inevitable that the LBA flight will be the one to suffer. TUI have a 3 airport deal with Peel and a huge investment in MAN and a one airport, fairly insignificant deal with LBA.

I'd be hugely surprised if Jet2 did anything to LPA this side of Christmas given the lead times. Putting something on sale now for a launch for Feb half term running into Easter is possible but still unlikely. Frankly, if they had any intention to be flying down to LPA, why wouldn't it have gone on sale months ago along with ACE and TFS?

I think as Leodis says, the winter schedule will be pretty much as it is now; Scotairways perhaps being the only thing that might come good.

Don't know anything about summer, so maybe Leodis could enlighten us?

682

[airhumberside]

Thomson also have seats on HUY-LPA

[LBA]

As much as the growth of LBA has been fantastic in recent years, that is a pathetic winter charter schedule, especially when you consider most routes will not be running all season!

[LBIA]

Looks like the Scot Airways Edinburgh-LBA service could be happening after all. Well thats if you read into todays coloum in the Scotsman newspaper.

I might get done for This next bit. But here is the artical

ScotAirways is hoping to introduce new direct flights from Edinburgh to Leeds/Bradford Airport, the Scotsman newspaper reports. The airline has booked time slots at Edinburgh for the new route, and has listed the destination in its provisional winter schedule.

The Cambridge-based airline, which already flies between Edinburgh to London City, told the newspaper that the move was 'in response to demand from business leaders in Scotland'.
The new service is expected to start at the end of October, with 3 daily flights likely to be introduced, departing Edinburgh at 06:50, 14:00 and 17:00.

[RAFAT]

Scamptonboy (I was of those a few years ago by the way) - As soon as they launch the service I'll be there.
Secondly, is LBA still in need of a Frankfurt service? When we (Flybe) had a base at LBA the Company's excuse for not doing Frankfurt was that ticket sales in Germany were prohibitively expensive, but now we're going to be doing some German routes I wonder if the LBA bosses have approached our Commercial department.
Our press release went something like :"The routes from Birmingham to Aberdeen and Hannover will see Flybe offer real low cost alternatives to these popular destinations and also re-confirms our move into the German marketplace."

[Jet2LBA]

is LBA still in need of a Frankfurt service?

I for one would welcome such a service with open arms! I currently take the LH flights out of MAN whilst my mate in FRA takes the same flights or has to route via BRU/CDG, etc with LH/BD when visiting here.

As he's an employee for LH I keep telling him to put a good word in for LBA...hehe. ;)

[chris1976]

Given the success of the DUS service, I would hope that a second German route is high on the agenda for Jet2. Frankfurt would be a good start, linking two large european financial centres, but Berlin or Munich would also be attractive routes to Jet2 IMHO - attracting both business and leisure pax.
I am surprised that the new Krakow route is only twice per week. Given the loads on the centralwings service (and bearing in mind those appalling flight times) surely LBA can support a greater service than 2/week ?? Maybe it's a "testing the water" approach.
Anyone think Jet2 will expand the european city network and focus less on the "bucket & spade" destinations ? Maybe also increasing to daily on more routes (e.g. Rome) to attract more business pax. Surely there are a number of euro capital routes which LBA can support on a daily basis at least.
Any thoughts anyone?

[BombardierCR7]

DUS loads are approx 60% on average over the last 3 months. Unless there is some yield miracle going on, I would shy away from calling this route a success.

This may give you a clue as to why LS are sticking to the bucket & spade routes, and the usual city break routes, of which Frankfurt is definately not one of either.

[airhumberside]

Isn't FRA an expensive and busy airport to operate into anyway?

[682ft AMSL]

DUS loads are approx 60% on average over the last 3 months. Unless there is some yield miracle going on, I would shy away from calling this route a success.
This may give you a clue as to why LS are sticking to the bucket & spade routes, and the usual city break routes, of which Frankfurt is definately not one of either.

The last 3 months is of course the first 3 months of the service. Clearly they'll be wanting more than 60% or the yield miracle (or ideally both) at some point, but I suspect given the obvious internal wranglings over whether they should have proceeded with DUS or not, they weren't expecting too much early doors.

With July data now out, I see the rolling 12 mths pax total is 2.7m exactly. There will be need to be an even bigger miracle than that Jet2 are looking for on their DUS yields if 3.0m passengers is to be achieved in 2006. Suffice to say, I'm already banking on one free pint this Christmas.

I can only imagine the person at LBA who dreamt up the forecast of 3.0m pax this year was either expecting some route developments which never happened or simply can't add up. The rationale behind a forecast of 3.1m million passengers for 2006 in the final issue of the masterplan released only a couple of months ago is much more puzzling.

682

[PTH needs tarmac]

Even the World Cup did not push the DUS load factor up very much. With most of the "bucket and spade" routes for Jet2 running load factors in the high 80s (rough calculation from recent CAA data) I'd say Jet2 will be sticking with them for some time to come.

Jet2 don't see to shy away from using "busier, more expensive" hub airport (eg AMS, CDG etc). It's getting the slots that is the major obstacle. FRA makes more sense twice daily, but with an aircraft smaller than a B737-300, and Jet2 won't be going down that road. CDG would be a much more attractive prospect for more flights.

Additional flights to the likes of Rome appear logical enough but aircraft utilisation in summer is already high and extra flights would have to go on off-peak days or be at the expense of other rotations.

PTH

[blahblahblah]

Apologies if this has been raised before but I am being lazy anyway! But how many B733 do Jet 2 base at LBA. I have looked at the timetable from the airports website and on a 'normal' day I think that they do circa 15 rotations from 7 aircraft which hardly suggests that they work them to the bone (I have discounted the TFS and ACE on B757 before anyone points the error of my ways).

Can any of you out there confirm or deny this?:)

Ooh I am on about the forthcoming winter - kind of important that!

[LBA]

At the moment is seems to be 7 733's alongside the two 757's.

[chris1976]

Are the 4 new stands online yet ? These will obviously provide scope for further expansion. Presumably the lack of stands is one of the main factors restraining further Jet2 aircraft being based at LBA. I'm sure if Jet2 based additional aircraft at LBA, there are many routes which can be opened up to adequately fill them.
The extra "night stoppers" might cause issues in the terminal given the already heavy passenger congestion in the early morning. Another 4 733's with early morning departures would result in the dep. lounge becoming too overloaded. Something needs to be done pretty sharpish if the growth rate continues.

[scamptonboy]

Chris1976Are the 4 new stands online yet ?

In a word "No". If you look at the copy of the NOTAM below you can see the work is estimated to be completed on 04 Dec 2006

AGA : Q)EGTT/QMXHW/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5352N00140W005
FROM 06/04/24 08:00 TO 06/12/04 17:00 EST C1826/06
E)WORKS IN PROGRESS EASTERN END TAXIWAY NOVEMBER.
TAXIWAY ALPHA EAST OF D3 RESTRICTED TO AIRCRAFT WITH A WING SPAN NOT EXCEEDING 39 METRES.

Progress is good from what I understand. Of course you then have to take into account what sort of Autumn / Winter we are going to get?
Even then, although to work may be completed you then have to take into consideration line markings, taxyway signage, lighting and air publication chart ammendments to name but a few. And a contact of mine from LBA reckons it will probably be ready for May 07! Could be earlier...who knows???

By all accounts the stands can / will accomodate a mix bag of Aircraft including 2 x 737 & 2 x 757 sized frames at once.......its a start:ok:

[Fandango71]

Has Taba died a death from Leeds? it isn't on the LBA web site and doesn't appear to be bookable with Peltours for October.

if so its a shame as I was just about to book!

[vpcaptain]

Taba's not dead as far as im aware as im flying it for Astraeus on the 5th OCT!:)

[Fandango71]

thanks vpcaptain. I shall try Peltours direct rather than use their website.
I hope it proves to be successful for them and Astraeus :)

[BombardierCR7]

The Taba has been axed.

[vpcaptain]

still on my aeu roster for the 5th OCT unless you know something we dont???

[Flightrider]

Regrettably yes, it has been axed. Sales across the board are not particularly strong and Egypt is struggling badly this year. It perhaps was not the right year to have a stab at it with the current state of the market, bombings in Sinai etc, but I suppose at least everyone was prepared to try - often better to try and fail than not try at all.

[RobT100]

.............what a surprise.........nothing to do with fact that Taba from MAN undercuts LBA by a mile in price.......

Totally unfair and unjust sales - its like saying buy your jag from a garage in leeds but get £2k off in manchester garage

[Flightrider]

Rob, when you've some idea of how the tour operating and airline industry works then perhaps you might grow out of making comments like this. Every time someone puts on a flight from LBA and then cancels it because it hasn't work, you automatically assume that it's a conspiracy theory to bump up sales from neighbouring airports. Snap out of it, for heaven's sake.

[RobT100]

Rob, when you've some idea of how the tour operating and airline industry works then perhaps you might grow out of making comments like this. Every time someone puts on a flight from LBA and then cancels it because it hasn't work, you automatically assume that it's a conspiracy theory to bump up sales from neighbouring airports. Snap out of it, for heaven's sake.

Flightrider, I reckon I know more about the tour op industry (and how it works) than you think, just for the record.

I am entitled to an opinion.

[Jet2LBA]

Shame to see Taba drop by the wayside, can't help feeling that Sharm El Sheikh would have been more popular.

[bundybear]

RobT100,
You seem to continually express biased anti IT opinions. Particularily anti TFly. So as has allready been suggested, why dont you just get over yourself. Dont fly them. But fly with someone else from your beloved LBA.
Could it be that holidays ex LBA cost more to buy, because they cost more to operate? No economies of scale at LBA with only a couple of rotations versus say MAN with many aircraft/rotations.If they could fill aircraft at LBA to fly to TCP, they would. But they will put their airframes where the sales are. Not anywhere but LBA as sometimes your posts seem to imply.
LBA is a great airport. Its just not IMHO, a great place to fly planes. Again IMHO, the runway length, and of course the prevailing met conditions, will always be LBA's handicap.
LBA is never going to be as big as MAN. So what. It will continue to operate with great passenger figures and a loyal customer base.
Good on LBA!
BB

[682ft AMSL]

My RSS newsfeed has this evening thrown a story at me saying Jet2 will launch Leeds - Valencia from May18, 4 x weekly Mo, Fr, Sa, Su. No mention of anythig on the Jet2 website. It's common practice in most industries to send out details to the press 24 hours before a public launch with a strict 'embargo' date. Maybe someone has jumped the gun on this occasion.

Advert removed

682

[ILS 119.5]

"TAXIWAY ALPHA EAST OF D3 RESTRICTED TO AIRCRAFT WITH A WING SPAN NOT EXCEEDING 39 METRES."

So is an a/c with a wing span exceeding 39 metres allowed on the taxiway?

[fredtheanorak]

Anyone know how the new Manx2 IOM LBA service is doing:confused: . IOM BLK seems to have started well?:)

[Mooncrest]

fredthe anorak,

Pax is usually into double figures but that's not hard on a 17 seat aircraft.

The plan is to very soon upgrade the aircraft to a Jetstream 32. I don't who the proposed operator is.

[lbalad]

I just got email from Jet2,announcing the new Valencia route from Lba.Supposed to be nice there I hear,might have to give it a whirl!.

[POL1W]

Increases so far, for 2007 are Pisa upto 5 weekly from the one a week this year. Ibiza up from 5 a week to daily with some flights operating full season. Looks like Malaga going upto double daily 757 also, from 1 757 and 1 737 this year.

[Jet2LBA]

Anyone know how the new Manx2 IOM LBA service is doing

I did a day return on it yesterday, 7 pax on the morning flight to IOM (which left 2 hours late) and 10 pax on the evening flight back (which would have departed on time but the flightplan had 'mysteriously' not been submitted), resulting in a 40 minute delay.

Wasn't overly impressed with the Let-410 either, made a Jetstream seem like the height of luxury!

But it's a direct link from LBA so I wish them well.:)

[SASfox]

Jet2LBA you stole my thunder mate! I too did a day returen yeasterday (6th Sept) £39 rtn to go and see an old work mate and a bit of lunch in Douglas. I flew on the Silver Air Let-410 (OK-SLD i think it was) on both flights. 8 pax and a on time dept in the morning and 16 pax on the return. Very smooth flights. Aircraft is a bit tatty inside but not as bad as the old bmi Fokker's! No loo's on board and at check-in at the IOM there are cards on the desk telling you to go before you fly. No cabin crew or service on board which is fine for a 40 min flight.
The safety breifing was the best part of the flight though with the FO giving the usual speel in broken english. I really liked the bit when he was explaining the life jackets. " these are under your seat for WHEN (not if) we belly land in the sea again" AGAIN!, the 2 business guys said to each other in front of me with a smile. Overall a really nice flight which seem to be going well after only 3 weeks of operations judging by the loads. On the return flight there were only 2 of us not in business dress as it were so i would have thought they would be paying the 'Manx Gold' fares.
Good luck to them for the future.

[fredtheanorak]

Thanks for the Manx2 LBA update guys. Glad you enjoyed the awayday in downtown douglas. I'm on the BLK IOM next week ;) (HA YFG flies this one i think) :confused: I'll reciprocate with in-flight entertainment stories. Nice one:ok: incidentaly, i hear the LBA IOM route is being upgraded to J31/32 next week?? . Hope they don't change the pax briefing tho.:D

[Jet2LBA]

Jet2LBA you stole my thunder mate! I too did a day returen yeasterday (6th Sept) £39 rtn to go and see an old work mate

Same as me, visiting a mate, paid £39.98! :ok:

No loo's on board and at check-in at the IOM there are cards on the desk telling you to go before you fly.

Novelty factor! Ha ha. However, on the subject of check-in, at IOM it was very efficient, but at LBA was a joke, flight was listed on the departures board, but no check-in desk was listed. With just 40 mins left before STD still nothing. Eventually had to 'hunt down' any check-in desk which was open to try and find the correct one, nothing displayed on any of the monitors at the desk for the flight either. Not the fault of Manx2 at all, perhaps an Aviance oversight.

I'm on the BLK IOM next week (HA YFG flies this one i think)

I don't think there must be any particular aircraft for each route. I got HA-YFG (full Manx2 livery) on the outbound flight and then OK-SLD (Silver Air livery) on the return. Incidentally, we were told that our 2 hour delay on the outbound flight was due to poor visibility at LBA on Tuesday morning. Admittedly, the weather wasn't great, but everything else (even T3's Jetstreams) were arriving and departing on time, only the Let-410 had problems. An LBA winter could be bad news if the Let-410 has such difficulties.

[Jet2LBA]

Anyone know why there was as Jet2 flight to LIS this morning (departed as LS6080)?

Obviously a charter of some sort, but can't help feeling it would be a nice addition to the list of scheduled destinations from LBA too! :)

[OltonPete]

Jet2LBA

BHX had one as well (G-CELK I think) but I have no idea who it was for.

Yes Lisbon would also be a welcome destination for BHX as well.


Pete

[perky35]

For ROB:

LBA is pretty much run by certain airlines, Jet2 and BMI have the monopoly here so charter companies can charge what they want for a week in egypt, as mentioned by someone else, MAN will have First Choice, Thomsonfly, My Travel and Thomas Cook all operating similar flights to similar destinations, and the competition obviously means more competitive prices...

LBA can have a charter flight to TABA or whereever and charge what they want until someone like Jet2 comes along offering the flights for 30 odd quid, until then you will have to be patient and think about going somewhere else if you dont want to fly from MAN...


As for Jet2 Lisbon, read an article in a paper today (nothing to do with LIS) but was on about low cost expansion in MADRID BARAJAS and in fact the whole of spain, so maybe Madrid could be an up and coming route?

new destinations set to be announced iv heard are Cyprus!

[POL1W]

Jet 2 just announced their 26th route from Leeds. This one is a 4 times a week service to Almeria, Spain starting 14 May. A welcomed addition to the LBA network and a new destination, having never been served by charter or schedule before.

[RobT100]

For ROB:
LBA is pretty much run by certain airlines, Jet2 and BMI have the monopoly here so charter companies can charge what they want for a week in egypt, as mentioned by someone else, MAN will have First Choice, Thomsonfly, My Travel and Thomas Cook all operating similar flights to similar destinations, and the competition obviously means more competitive prices...
LBA can have a charter flight to TABA or whereever and charge what they want until someone like Jet2 comes along offering the flights for 30 odd quid, until then you will have to be patient and think about going somewhere else if you dont want to fly from MAN...
That is a fair point Perky but there are goings on that seem quite annoying for all concerned:
I have booked pax for LPA for last 2 years running and TOM have diverted the airport to DSA 2 years running - they pay the LBA price because they want LBA, then all of the sudden they are left high and dry with a choice of DSA or book another holiday.
Why must the flight go from DSA, its smaller than LBA ? ! I mean TOM are keen enough to bring the 767-300 up here when its cruise season (wouldnt be because people on those flights have money to burn now would it?)
Other destinations go from MAN on a regular basis yes, but again the customer wants LBA and trust me there are lots of them. And therefore we have a scenario where pax are forced into destinations they really didnt want to go to.
If Jet2 come along offering taba (or whatever else) for 30 odd quid the charters will simply stop the destination, so its a 2 way battle. Perhaps its the end of the road for the charter companies anyway (I certainly hope so) ??
And with the possibility of Greek and Turkish destinations from Jet2 for 2007 things could begin to look that way for LBA.
No doubt you will say these companies such as TOM are trying to run a business, yes of course they are, but in the end the customer will go elsewhere if they dont get what they want (look at M&S for a classic case). Then what ?

[Jet2LBA]

BD are increasing the LHR service to 5 x weekdays this winter. The existing 4 flights stay at more or less the same times, with the addition of a late evening service, dep LBA 21:00, arr LHR 22:00, dep LHR 22:30 arr LBA 23:30, using an LBA based ER4 (maybe the one which arrives back from EDI in the early evening?).

[LBA]

That REALLY does surprise me with the way bmi have been going. Ah well, all good news!

[POL1W]

The 5th flight is just a slot retainer for the winter. It's cheaper to run an EM4 up and down to LHR all winter, than not use it, and lose it. Come next summer it will be axed, and the slot used for something more lucrative into Europe.

[Flightrider]

It is a set of slots that they were allocated to fly Dammam with an A319.

[toppledgyro]

The recent Jet2 flights to/from LIS from both BHX and LBA were a private, one-off charter by Lexus cars - that's all.

Sorry to disappoint this time - as a Jet2 pilot I always aim to please :)

tg

[682ft AMSL]

http://www.leedstoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=39&ArticleID=1773114

SENIOR councillors are expected to give their backing to a sale of Leeds-Bradford Airport which will net West Yorkshire councils a windfall worth tens of millions of pounds.
And if the sale goes through the airport at Yeadon – which in July alone attracted over 309,000 passengers – could be in private hands next year.
The airport is owned by West Yorkshire's five district councils with Leeds and Bradford each holding 40 per cent of the stake and the remaining 20 per cent split equally between Wakefield, Kirklees and Calderdale.
While council officials are reluctant to reveal the amount of cash a sale could raise, local authorities in the North East shared £194m when they sold a stake in Newcastle Airport three years ago.
The YEP revealed last year that Leeds City Council's ruling Conservative-Liberal Democrat-Green coalition was considering a possible sell-off.
Consultants Ernst and Young were hired to provide financial and legal advice and the council's executive board, which meets next Wednesday, is being recommended to support an outright sale.
If other shareholders do not agree, a report to the board says Leeds should try to participate in a sale of at least 60 per cent of the airport which would allow the city to dispose of its 40 per cent holding.
Passenger numbers are expected to continue to grow over the next 10 years and significant investment will be needed to improve services, terminal facilities and road and rail access.
Hard-pressed councils could struggle to raise that cash. Supporters of a sale say local authorities would receive much-needed money and argue the private sector would be better placed to raise the cash.
Opponents, particularly some Labour councillors, are likely to claim it smacks of "selling the family silver".
The report to the board says that Ernst and Young indicated that "there is currently a significant appetite in the market for regional airports like Leeds and Bradford".
It adds that any transaction would need to be completed "on a timely basis".
The airport would be marketed internationally with bids and business plans to be submitted by next February. Councillors would then select a preferred bidder in March or April and officers would be left to negotiate the final sale.
The report says discussions have been held with the other shareholders who had indicated support for a form of sale

[lorddee]

I just hope that whoever buys it does not have the rights to re-name the apt some stupid name.

[682ft AMSL]

from the report itself;

3.3 In addition to the three primary objectives idetified above, the five West Yorkshire districts have also identified two further objectives that need to be incorporated into the preferred transaction structure, namely:

- the name of the airport remains Leeds Bradford International Airport
- the Airport continues to operate as an internaitonal airport business

also of interest is the following paragraph which I presume is intended to disuade Peel or MAG from making a bid unless they are able to provide reassurance to the shareholders that competition issues will not be a problem. I would have though the likliehood of either Peel or MAG being able to provide such assurance in the timetable proposed is unlikely.

4.12 during the sale process, it is proposed that the five West Yorkshire Districts implement a transaction structure that allows for bids which give rise to competition issues to be managed effectively. It is proposed that bidders will be required to provide a certificate, or reasoned statement, with supporting evidence, demonstrating to the shareholders satisfaction that all competition clearances required are likely to be received, and that the impact of acquisition will not impact on competition issues in the market.

the full report can be read here (page 270 onwards)
http://www.leeds.gov.uk/moderngov/Published/C00000102/M00001102/$$ADocPackPublic.pdf

[wawkrk]

Does anyone know why the early morning departure is so frequently delayed.
Again this morning more than 1 hour late.
The Jet2 flight to Amsterdam seems to be always more or less on time so I assume it is not a problem at AMS.
I have lost count of how many times I have missed my onward connections with KLM.

[bobleeds]

Something along the lines of: -

"Alan Bennett David Hockney Central White Rose County International Airport"?

[Yorkshire]

Hi im new here.
they could call it Leeds International Airport as it is in the Leeds but i would also be happy if they kept the name as it is to make things simple

[TANGO100]

Did anyone read -
The Mail on Sunday
(finance) £100m+ Leeds Bradford Airport controlling owners consider sale...

Any chance of a postscript if you have !

[scamptonboy]

TANGO100Did anyone read -
The Mail on Sunday
(finance) £100m+ Leeds Bradford Airport controlling owners consider sale...


Try this link for the story
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/investing-and-markets/article.html?in_article_id=412756&in_page_id=3

[TANGO100]

Many thanks for that

Postscript reads -

Leeds Bradford International Airport - which is valued at more than £100m - is on the brink of being put up for sale, it emerged last week.
Its owners, West Yorkshire's five councils, are understood to be considering whether to sell a controlling 51% stake or the whole business.
Leeds Bradford, the home of low-cost airline Jet2, currently flies more than 300,000 passengers a month to the Continent, Africa and the Caribbean.
However, the owners are keen to develop the airport and to improve its international services to attract more companies with overseas operations.
A decision on how much of the stake to sell is expected within weeks and information on the business will be sent to prospective bidders in November. Accountancy firm Ernst & Young is advising the councils.

[Eaglestar7]

A company interested in London City airport has said it is prepared to spend over 700m to buy the city airport. So if that is anything to go by then Leeds could be sold for much more than 100m as quoted.

[PTH needs tarmac]

I believe that the 100 million that is regularly quoted in the local press is the Book value as stated on the asset accounts of the five local Councils. I'm sure they are hoping for a much higher return than that, especially for a 100% sale. Given the prices paid for partial stakes in other regional airports a few years ago, a higher final sale price would seem to be reasonable, but nobody will commit to saying so given the recent ups and downs or before any official tenders have been received.

At least the Councils have put in a stipulation about keeping the current name (that was a particularly strong issue for Bradford I suspect), and are being mindfull of avoiding the Competition Commission.

PTH

[wawkrk]

Cant see the name sticking.
If some group offered a huge sum but their stipulation was to call it what they wanted, then surely the council would back down.

[RobT100]

Check out Thomsons commitment to LBA for next summer everyone:

MON Nothing (Palma and Paphos Gone !)

TUE Alicante (Tenerife Gone !)

WED Menorca (Ibiza Gone !)

THU Palma W (as 2006 !)

FRI Corfu (Dalaman Gone !)

SAT Ibiza (Reus and Malaga Gone !)

SUN Palma W (as 2006 !)


...........comments ???

[wawkrk]

It surprises me that Thomson have not fought back at LBA against Jet2.
Jet2 have proved in spectacular style that the market is there and that it was not being fully exploited in the past. Increasing numbers of passengers still do want to travel to all the popular resorts. Many are probably still using the same Hotels and accommodation that was in the traditional package holiday.
Is the Thomson style business model dead?
I think it is. In the past, holidaymakers had to travel on the so-called change-over day at their chosen resort. Now, they can travel any day, for an odd number of days not just 7 or 14 days.
As in a previous comment I made, Thomson had maybe 1 or 2 flights per week to Malaga (none next summer)from LBA, Jet2 now have 14 757 flights per week! This is about the same size as the whole Thomson programme used to be from LBA in the good old days.
Thomson have been relying on timid people being afraid to organise their own holiday but maybe at LBA, there are fewer of these people than at some other airports.
All these changes must also be also having an effect on the resort hotels but I think a positive effect.
Probably with a tour operator, the hotel received a hugely discounted package payment and had to wait 6 months or more to collect. The private traveller pays slightly more, cuts out the middleman, and the hotel receives immediate payment.
If Thomson accept this trend, then I cannot see where their future lies with the present business strategy. Are the Thomsonfly low cost flights too little too late and at the wrong airports?

[airhumberside]

Check out Thomsons commitment to LBA for next summer everyone:
MON Nothing (Palma and Paphos Gone !)
TUE Alicante (Tenerife Gone !)
WED Menorca (Ibiza Gone !)
THU Palma W (as 2006 !)
FRI Corfu (Dalaman Gone !)
SAT Ibiza (Reus and Malaga Gone !)
SUN Palma W (as 2006 !)
...........comments ???
Looks to me like no based TOM aircraft next summer, unless theres a lot of new routes to be announced. The remaining schedules could be done by w patterns from elsewhere or by foreign carriers