PPL in florida

[stug]

Has anyone had any experience with Orlando Flight training? I am looking at doing my JAA PPL and have read opinions of OBA and Naples air but have found little about OFT. Any insights?

Thanks

STUG

[night hawk 150]

Hi Stug,

you may or may not choose to listen to my opinion on the florida flying schools but here goes.

i like you am a student and have been for a while, when i started here in the UK it was costing me an arm and a eg as i would manage to get a few hours done then wait several weeks even months for good weather to start again.

when i started my training again i had to doa few more hours on a refresh on what i had done previous. i have my medical and all my ground exams are nearly done.

So i as thinkning of keeping my hours on my log book and do the complete JAA PPL in florida, when it came to me looking at schools out there i like you posted threads and asked for peoples opinions.

Many people on here are anti Adrian T from OBA and some singing his praises so i guess my advice to you is select what schools are out there then call them or send them an e-mail asking them to call you.

I did this and found Adrian T at OBA a very nice and friendly guy who has bags of experience, the advice i managed to get off here through my own posts and reading others it that you are better trying to form your own opinion on which school to choose.

I am planning to head out to florida on my Honeymoon and will pay them all a visit and see the aircraft, services, accom and maybe get a pleasure flight to see what its all like.

For the best information on OFT just e-mail them or call them but have a good set of questions to ask them.

I really do wish you all the best in your search and hope you manage to find a school that fits best with your needs.

Craig

[Genghis the Engineer]

I am planning to head out to florida on my Honeymoon and will pay them all a visit and see the aircraft, services, accom and maybe get a pleasure flight to see what its all like.


I have to say, much as I love my flying, this isn't how I'd be spending my honeymoon. How long are you planning to stay married?

G

<<edit: "Florida on honeymoon" - seems like the perfect next victim for me to have dragged on stage at DisneyWorld. Bwah hah hah!>>

[gcolyer]

Flying over marraige gets my vote!!

[stug]

Thanks, I have already spoken to OFT and asked all the questions I just wanted to know how people who had been there had found it.

Anyone with any insights into OFT (or any other) please let me know.

Thanks.

STUG

[Flying Felix]

I would strongly recommend OFT to anybody, even though last year we had a falling out over the training that they were able to offer.
With all service providers in the States there are a few things to remember:

1. Read the contract and fully understand what’s paid for and what isn’t. Different schools have different ways of calculating bills, ramp fees, fuelling fees etc. A lot of complaints are due to individuals not reading the pricing plan fully and understanding it. As a result they run out money in their account early and they believe that they have been ripped off.

2. Its hard work. Be prepared to put the hours in it’s not a holiday. 21 days PPL as quoted in adverts are a minimum, budget for an extra weeks stay. If you can complete ground school before you go.

3. As in the UK weather affects flying be prepared for delays.

4. Most instructors are there hour building. They get paid £10.00 per flying hour, treat them with respect and remember you might have just paid more for your dinner last night than they have been paid for the last couple of days.

5. Enjoy.

[wheelyman]

I did my JAR PPL with OFT back in April 2003 - thoroughly enjoyed it. Find the whole team very friendly and helpful.

The only problem I found was coming back and flying in UK. It's a bit different. I didn't get time to complete my 45 hours in my 3 weeks (weather!!!) and did about 4 hours at Teesside before qualifying.

I would recommend this as a plan. Do most out there, then return to complete and qualify. You will be much more confident in UK RT procedures, UK weather etc

[Julian]

NAC are not conducting PPL training at the moment due to the loss of their HoT.

See thread below as bit of a discussion going on!

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=213502&page=8

Have fun where ever you end up.

[MOCA]

Generally OFT is quite a good place, however I've been there a few times now and would like to pass on the following advice based on my experience with OFT:
1: Make sure you check and double check with them (and the hotel) to ensure you have a reservation for your first night. It is not uncommon to arrive (particularly at weekends when there's no admin suport) to find your room for the night hasn't been booked. This even happened to a CAA examiner from the UK!!! (And yes I can prove it)
2: You must take control of your own programme because they will not do it for you. While I was there I met a number of guys who simply ran out of time (for a number of reasons) and left without taking their test. When you get there tell them you're leaving a few days before you actually are, and work to this (it will give you much more felxibility).
3: Remember you are the customer. Sometimes they have to change flight times for operational reasons, but OFTEN bookings just get changed and they don't tell you. I'e you'll get up early, go all the way down to the airport and find instead of flying at 7am they've changed your slot to 1300. Complain, complain, complain.
4: They don't have enough PPL examiners - while I was there they made one guy wait 5 days for his test. There's a really friendly freelance CAA examiner called Paul Thompson, who is often available at short notice. They don't like to us him for PPL because they prefer the cash to go to the staff examiners - however YOU ARE THE CUSTOMER. (I would recommend Paul first in ANY event)
5: Training often gets disrupted due to overcast or bad weather, but always remember all US instructors must have an instrument rating. So if you're running out of time and the weather's bad at Kissimmee but its ok at Ocala (or elsewhere) insist you fly up there, they CAN do it.
6: Take USD in cash they will charge you 2% on credit cards (this is not unique to OFT) alternatively if you book through Cabair, pay them (by cheque if you like) then get Cabair to transfer it and you won't be charged and you'll get a good rate.
7: Check you paperwork before leaving: make sure you hassle them for course completion certificates. I had to ask 15 times for mine - the CAA will not issue without it. Also on CPL applications (and maybe PPL, you'll need to check) you kneed the application form signed off by your training providewr. Do NOT leave Florida without it.

[wnjmurphy]

Cheers for that, I've just put the majority of your points to the guys at OFT, to see how they react to them.

Should be going in July, already got 6 hours under my belt but no groundschool done, in your opinions am I wise to go so close to now?

[MOCA]

I'm sure you'll have a great time there.
Beware that there's often thunderstorms in the summer in the afternoon in Florida (and its very hot) so prepare to fly early - or very late.
Make sure you add extra time on for your stay - it is possible to get a PPL in two weeks, but VERY hard work - you will need at least three and then you might still not have enough time. The problem comes when you go solo/cross country navigation. You'll not be allowed to go unless conditions are good -- this is the main thing that often delays the PPL progress and why you should build in extra time - so make you you fly at least twice a day when you can incase there's a delay.
TAKE YOUR EXAMS HERE BEFORE YOU GO, you'll have more time to concentrate on the flying.
If you do finish early you should take a night rating, its only about 5 hours and much cheaper there. (Also remember night lasts all night so you may be able to persuade your instructor to fly early mornings rather than late nights).
Try not to arrive at the weekend, as I said there's no admin support for you.
If you have the cash available I'd recommend upgrading from the Cessna to the Cadet, they're much better - and they have more of them so if any go tech there's more choice available, however that's personal preference.
If you have time, try and get used to listening to American ATC, follow the link below, getting used to the way they say things will help your progress.
http://www.liveatc.net/feedindex.php?type=class-b
Take some Cadbury's Dairy Milk for Morag in Ops!!
Have a great time at OFT, I'm sure you will, and be prepared to have a few hours with an instructor here to get used to airspace/rt when you come back.

[b1ggl3s]

I was at OFT last June, I concur that you definitely should get your written exams done first before flying out there, you need to be at the school taking every opportunity to fly that comes your way, not studying for exams.

Last year there the 152's were booked up far more than the Pipers, of which I believe thay have more. The folks flying the Pipers were streets ahead of the 152's even by the end of week one.

Be aware that you are intending to fly during the hurricane season, this cost me *two* whole weeks last year. I'm told winter time is much better for flying in Florida.

If you're not happy with you're instructor, shout. My first instructor was clearly not happy and either left or got the boot after my week 2. The first thing he had said to me after introduction was "If you've got a problem with me then, come and talk to me, not anyone else."....not a good start. 2 weeks later he was gone. The 2nd instructor was great.

You will need to look after number one and push them to get you up and flying, they will not do this for you, you will not complete a 21 or 28 day course if you don't keep on top of them. If you're not happy......shout!

Get written confirmation of the accommodation situation before you go. Some students (myself included) were being told that accommodation was included only to find out at the last moment (and were already committed)that they had to pay for their own hotel room. For this reason alone they will not be getting any more of my business.

Have fun, and Good Luck !

[Keygrip]

"If you've got a problem with me then, come and talk to me, not anyone else."....not a good start.

To be fair, you MAY have misinterpreted the intentions there - I would also say to a student, that if they had a problem with something I had said or done (or NOT said/done) then I would like them to come straight to me, without delay, and address the situation. Certainly not go to somebody esle to complain. There's no need for that and it doesn't help anybody - often makes the problem bigger and may just be the result of a simple misunderstanding or honest mistake.

If a student has problems with me, as an individual, then I would be the first one to suggest they change to another instructor. They shouldn't battle on, if they're not happy. Back to that phrase of "You are the customer".

[b1ggl3s]

Keygrip, you have a very good point, however I'm fairly sure my gut feeling at the time was correct. I liked the guy but he clearly had issues with the way the school was run, and I really could have done without the the extra brain cycles involved in worrying/thinking about what was going on. However the situation resolved itself (they dealt with it) before I came to the decision to speak up, but I should have said something earlier.

I guess this could have happened at any school, my only real beef with OFT was the accommodation issue. Apart from that I'd recommend them, except perhaps for the weather, but that's not really their fault :-)

[stug]

hey thanks Sensible, Im waiting for my boss to "OK" 28 days off work so I still have time to look around :0)

Stug

[aw8565]

I'm also waiting for that "OK!"

[Aristomenis]

I am bringing this up due to the fact that I will probably visit OFT next February. I appreciate reading all the coments but i do not understand why some people here comment on the school (or other schools) by giving examples of meaningless situations that could just happen anywhere and everywhere. I believe the people who ask questions are interested in the "big picture" of the school and such examples of unsatisfaction (sic) have no place to a forum like this (IMHO), not to mention the fact that are more confusing rather that enlightening...

[wnjmurphy]

Aristomenis:

Rather than your aforementioned "meaningless things," what do you want to know about Florida flying instead?

[Aristomenis]

Dear wnjmurphy and the rest,

I have read all coments in this forum regarding Orlando Flight Training and most of my questions have been answered. What I have come up to regarding the school is a fairly positive impression. Problems of any kind can happen to any institution. If you have anything to tell me regarding the facilities and especially the Best Western Hotel they advertise, i will be pleased to read. Furthermore I would like to know if the 172sp's they are proud of are in good condition. Please excuse my previous post but i believe that what an instructor tells to a student is completely irrelevant with the topic and can only lead to a confusion of prospective customers, as me for example. This type of instructor attitude could be found to any school. I have also read other posts mentioning that 2 planes fell off the sky. I am sorry guys but you just have to elaborate and justify your statements. You just cannot comment on such serious things like this... If you know why these incidents took place, we will be pleased to read. On a different thread about a different school i read that one complained about the school having cats... Do i have to take that into account to come up with a decision? if not why are you telling this to me? I hope you cath my meaning...

[Aristomenis]

Last minute's notice: I just learned that one of the cats did its sh*t on the right gear of one of the cessnas. Avoid this school at all costs....

[BRL]

I believe the people who ask questions are interested in the "big picture" of the school and such examples of unsatisfaction (sic) have no place to a forum like this (IMHO), not to mention the fact that are more confusing rather that enlightening...

I don't get this bit. Surely if I, or anyone else for that matter, asks for info ( a reasonable question reletive to this forum) about any school, surely you would like to hear everything about them either good or bad........ Or have I read the quote wrong..?

[mcgoo]

my thoughts exactly, if we don't get to hear the bad things as well as the good theres no point having a forum, we may as well rely on the fto's websites and spin

[Aristomenis]

BRL and MCGOO,

I am focusing on "such" examples of unsatisfaction that i mention in my earlier posts. These are examples referring to individual situations that are just what i mentioned, individual situations. What i want to hear from somebody that has visited the school is for cases that are related to school policies and environment and are affecting the training process, a cat in the hangar does not affect the process at all. Furthermore, don't you think that it is unfair for any school to be badly critisized because it once employeed an instructor that one of us did not like?

[Gipsy Queen]

Two things occurr to me having followed this thread:

Firstly, Florida being only twenty-something degrees North, has a sub-tropical climate with pronounced seasonal characteristics. The peninsula in the summer months is one huge weather machine with the water temperatures of the inland Everglades rivalling those of the Caribbean and Gulf Stream. Flying usually is possible before lunch but the afternoons are full of CuNim build-ups and it rains (violently) more often than not, (sometimes accompanied by tornadic activity) leaving steaming, humid and thoroughly unpleasant conditions for the rest of the afternoon.

The winter period (November to end of May) is delightful with temperatures very much more to the liking of those from cooler climes. This is the dry season and weather suitable for flying training is pretty well an everyday guarantee. However, this is the "high" season so there will be competition for accommodation from the bucket-and-spade gang as well as all the snowbirds from Canada, no doubt raising the general costs of things. But given the choice, winter is the time to go.

Secondly - and following from choices - I should point out that whilst I have many types in my books, there are only two from Clyde Cessna. I have over 600 hours on the 404 but have flown the 172 only once. This later occassion was quite recently and I have to say that I consider it the most boring and uninspired aircraft I have ever flown. I thought the MS880B was pretty dull but at least you could see out of the thing. The 172, being designed for American car drivers and therefore having had any personality or character designed out of it, will get you the PPL but it won't teach you to fly. Being able to see where you are and what others are doing in the circuit is well nigh impossible - at least the Auster had a window in the roof! I shall not climb into another one.

My suggestion is that if the flying school offers you the choice, take the other one/s. :cool:

[hobbit1983]

Having been to OFT this June, my opinions echo most of those posted here, so in brief;
1. Damn good flying instructors
2. Not enough JAA examiners IMHO
3. A/C not that well maintained (my experience & opinion)
4. Your account would need watching & DON'T EVER PAY UPFRONT
5. After June-ish time, the thunderstorms are a right pain in the arse
Did have a few admin problems but to their credit they did sort them out after being asked.

[bean_ian]

Hi Hobbit1983,
im heading over to OFT in april. As far as im aware isnt it a requirement that you pay the balance of the course on arrival? How did you get around this

[hobbit1983]

Bean_ian,

It would have probably been different for me as I was part of a uni course that did the training out there as part of a package. So it probably doesn't apply to you. In any case, you're better off paying as you go!

Word of warning however - next April I think the 2nd year of my course will start to descend onto OFT again! If you're there from May - July time you *may* find that there are quite a lot of people there.

[ChrisV]

Has anybody got Paul Thompsons tel or cellphone number?
I have to book him and I don't know how to get in contact since OFT refuses to give me his number or any other contact details.

Please send me an e-mail [email protected] ([email protected])

Thanks for your help,
Chris

[PompeyPaul]

I was all booked to go to Florida for flight training but had to cancel at the last minute due to work commitments. I decided to do my training here in the UK instead. Although more expensive I am much happier. The reasons are simple

1. I am flying in the conditions I'll fly in when I qualify
2. I understand the local area far better and know what landmarks to look for
3. I have seen the sorts of things I need to see. Will you learn how to remove frost from the aircraft in Florida ?
4. Instead of PPL training being a chore that I need to get through, the local flying club is a friendly little place. It's nice to meet other people with the same interests and so training has become almost a social club.
5. Being with loved ones the night after your first solo is great, you can go home and tell EVERYONE that you know. Even that bloke who once said hello to you, you can bore him to death with all the details of your circuit
6. Because it's all local I know where to get what I need. I know where to get my medical done (when it expires) and also the RT tutor etc etc

Flying is going to be expensive no matter how you do it. My as well get it done right and do it here in the UK IMHO with all of 10 hours training time.

Anyway, sorry to pull this in a tangent....

[gcolyer]

PompeyPaul
Will you learn how to remove frost from the aircraft in Florida ?


I had to defrost aircraft 4 days in a row whilst flying in Florida December 2005.

The 100% assured weather rumor is just not true in Florida.

It does get bloody coldat times (cold enought to frost up).
It gets bloody windy and will often be over the limits that the FTO set.
It does get foggy.
It does have low cloud.
It does hammer down the rain.

[BackPacker]

I did my PPL at OFT about a year and a half ago. I did the three week package and passed my skills test on day 22. I had zero hours in my logbook upon arrival at OFT (In fact bought my logbook there), and no ground exams under my belt. But I did study a lot in the months before I went there, flew a lot of FS2004 (particulary on instruments, C172), and listened to a lot of R/T with a second-hand scanner.

A few tips:
- You'll need an M-1 visa and TSA clearance. Start working on this at least two months before you leave
- If at all possible avoid hurricane season (roughly june-october). If you have to fly there in hurricane season, learn the weather patterns quickly. Fly early in the morning (yes, 6am-early) or late in the afternoon. Remember that a number of hours that you do at night may count towards both the basic PPL requirement and the Night VFR requirement.
- Study for your ground exams before you fly to Florida, so that you're able to sit all exams in the first week & pass them. Don't rely on the (free) evening groundschool. It won't get you through quickly enough.
- Make sure you have a flexible ticket. I have had one day delay due to weather (remember Katrina-Rita-Stan-Tammy? Well, there were two nameless storms after them too...) and was able to change my flight back.
- Make friends with your instructor early. Promise him/her a real nice dinner if you pass in 21 days. They don't get paid much so give them a reason to work for you.
- Keep a close watch on your account. You are required to pay upfront (as you arrive). I deliberately choose to pay by credit card, despite the 2% (which is negotiable anyway), so that I would have the credit card company at my side in case of problems.
- Do NOT fly the C-152. They're old and tired. Consider the fact that the very last C-152 left the Cessna factory somewhere in 1985 and you'll know what their general shape is. Upgrade to the Cadet (which I did) or even the C-172 (very nice machines, but even more expensive)
- Become and remain the master of your own schedule. Keep a progress report yourselves, verify with your instructor regularly. Set target dates/hours by which you "have to" have done certain things (together with your instructor) and check regularly. How about 15 hours to solo, 30 hours to qualifying solo x-country.
- Yes, there is a shortage of JAA examiners. Ground exams are no problem, as they can be administered by OFT themselves (I don't know how this works legally, but it works.) But as I was there the R/T examiner had just gone on holiday and the resident R/T examiner had not received the paperwork in time. Also, at that time they only had one JAA examiner. He was seriously backed up with exams which all got delayed due to weather. Short version is that I was fully ready (wrt. hours etc) to do my R/T exam and skills test on day 18 or so, but due to unavailable and backed up examiners, and weather, did my R/T practical only on day 21, and my skills test on day 22. Plan your exams in advance and make sure you get the school to confirm them.
- Considering the intensity with which the aircraft are flown (four sorties a day is the norm), the aircraft are in good nick. The resident maintenance shop is very quick to fix problems that can be fixed quickly and it is rare for an aircraft to be U/S more than half a day. But things do break down which upsets the schedule. Make friends with the dispatcher early on. If possible, be in the ops room when the schedule for the next day is written up. If you do things correctly and nicely, it is very possible to get the exact schedule and aircraft you want, every day.
- If you behave like you're the only customer on the premises and expect that everybody stands in line to help you out in every way they can without any thanks or so, think again. It's not going to work. Instead, if you consider yourself part of the team (together with the instructors, dispatchers, other students, chief instructor and such) with the aim of getting you and the other students their PPL ASAP, your attitude will be much more appreciated. A friendly word or a genuine "thanks" here and there, getting a cup of coffee, soda, donuts for somebody who is working his/her a**e of for you and the other students, helping a solo student to park the A/C after a long flight, and other things like that really help you get the most of your time there. Particularly if the schedule is tight due to weather or A/C being U/S, you will be favoured over others... :-)
- Accomodation: I had accomodation in the apartments in the complex closest to the school. They're a run-down bunch although if things are really broken and you report that to OFT, it will be fixed. But I heard that the apartment at the other side of the main road are *much* nicer.

Some of the people that were at OFT a year and a half ago might still be there. If you want my opinion on individual persons, send me a PM.

Some interesting stories: My A/C failed its run-up tests on my FIRST SOLO! Had to taxi back in to OFT to get a new plane to try my 1st solo for the 2nd time. By the time I got back from my three full-stop-taxibacks the first A/C was just fixed (spark plug failed). But since both times I taxied the aircraft with the intent to fly, I now have both first solos in my logbook! (And to be fair, OFT did not charge me for the taxi/runup time on the first A/C.)
Oh, and on my first night flight we actually went through THREE A/C this way (the first one had a failed landing light during the A-check, the second A/Cs landing light failed after the first circuit, and the third A/Cs interior lights could not be dimmed but we took it anyway. Next day both landing lights were already repaired before I arrived at the school and I saw the engineer take the dimmer out of AC 3 to fix it. Kudos to maintenance!)

[unfazed]

Did my FAA CPL /IR with OFT just over a year ago

Most of the feedback on here is accurate and fair

Great bunch of people and a nice setup

definitely for the self driven and focused pilot, manage yourself, work hard, get the exams done up front and then all will be well. Enjoy the thrill of flying in the USA and have fun !

[paulvb]

Hi

I'm thinking of heading to OFT in november

Does anybody has experience with the housing OFT offers at the Best Western?

Should be $50 per night, incl tax.

[BackPacker]

I was in the houding in the complex closest to the school. These apartments are run-down and what I've heard and seen, the apartments other side of the main road are better. But they're about 10-15 additional minutes walking. The Best Western is, well, a hotel. Expect much better quality and a much higher price. And you'll be all alone each evening. You've got to share the apartment (including the bathroom) with 2 or 3 other guys (girls) although each will have a separate bedroom. But it does give you somebody to talk to during the evenings, to go out to dinner with and so forth.

When I was there there was a guy on the two-weeks VIP course (which is a ridiculous schedule and nowhere near possible unless everything comes together flawlessly). Being on the VIP program he got a car (very handy) and a room at the Best Western. He kept the car but quickly changed to one of the apartments, basically because of the company he would have in the evenings.

[bladewashout]

I did the hotel for a few days then moved into one of the apartments sharing with two other students.

Leaving aside that some of the younger students have, to put it mildly, obviously been over-nannied by their mothers and incapable of keeping the place tidy, it is far better to be able to come home in the evening and talk about what has been going on to fellow-students than stay alone in a hotel room.

Far more sociable and fun in the apartments.

BW

[paulvb]

In my case it's a little bit different because my girlfriend will jpoin me as her vacation (not mine;-). I understood private housing is much more complectated and expencive???

[BackPacker]

paulvb, if at all possible, leave your girlfriend at home, or ask her to come over for a week or so outside your flying schedule. I don't know exactly what sort of course you are going to do, but in any case a three-week PPL is very intensive, and I suspect the other flying courses are too. You'll have to get up at 6 am-ish to take advantage of the weather, prepare, fly and evaluate two (sometimes three) flights a day so you will only be back 6 pm-ish or maybe even later. Then a bite at the winghouse or one of the other local establishments, grab a beer and back in bed by 10 pm-ish. Or earlier. At least, that's what I did for three weeks straight.

Unless your girlfriend doesn't mind not seeing you and is able to take a lot of initiatives on her own, she's not going to enjoy it.

Do as one of the students did during the period I was there. He took a full week off flying, moved into a hotel, got his girlfriend over, saw the sights and generally had a good time. He took her back to the airport for her to fly home (I think he actually got an instructor with him and dropped her off himself at Orlando International...), then moved into the student housing again and went on flying where he left off.

There are private houses/apartments in the Kissimmee area which you can rent if you want to for shorter or longer periods, but OFT doesn't arrange this for you, as far as I know. They only offer you the shared apartments or the Best Western. So you'll have to make arrangements yourself. And you probably will have to get a car, since there's not a lot of houses/apartments in general, within easy walking distance from OFT.

And I have to concur with bladewashout, some of the younger students, typically the ones that are on the Cabair integrated, commercial track, doing their PPL at OFT, need a little babysitting. I don't mind if they make a mess of their own room, but they also make a mess of the public areas, and then leave the place without cleaning up. Me and a fellow housemate (the only two occupants at that time) spent an evening hauling trash (mostly empty plastic bags and leftover, non-perishable food but some perishable and stinking stuff too) out of the apartment. The cleaning lady only cleans whatever she can get to...

[paulvb]

Hi

Well, we are aware of the fact will be split up but she doesn't mind at all enjoining herself for 4 weeks, so that's really not the point.
Where we are a little worried about are the really bad reports on tripadvisor.com, about the Best Western...
But for $50 incl per night you cannot expect that much of course....