Pre-flight check question.

[Garglon]

Hi, hope this question belongs here.

Recently did my first checks in lesson 2 (!) and found two things:

1. Bald patch (area with no tread about the size of a hand) on the tyre
2. Right hand tank's fuel gauge not working.

Should we have flown?

Garglon

[FlapsOne]

Tyres - depends on make and model of tyre and aircraft really. Many modern tyres can have significant (to pilots!) tread damage but be totally acceptable in engineering terms. Damage to the sidewall of the tyre however must be treated with great caution. Your local friendly engineer shoud be able to give a lead.

As regards the fuel guage - probably dependes on type of aircraft and the fuel system, but the MMEL (if you have one for your type) would have the definitive despatch answer. It could give all sorts of problems, not least of all, refuelling correctly.

[AerocatS2A]

Neither of those things are necessarily no-go items.

Did you tell your instructor what you'd seen? If so, what was his/her response? If not, why not?

[Garglon]

Ok, thanks for the answers, put my mind at rest.

Yes, I found them on a PA28, pointed them out and he said it was ok to fly so that's fine with me - only reason I asked is because my training manual said there should be at least 2mm all round with no bald patches and it doesn't mention the fuel gauge as such so I wasn't sure.

Thanks again,

Garglon

[john_tullamarine]

Prefer you don't delete the thread as others may have a similar question and can access this thread via the search engine.

[cavortingcheetah]

:ooh:

On a PA 28, the fuel tanks each have a metal 'step' just inside the filler cap opening. The fuel level, relative to this step, is the determining factor as to how much fuel is in each tank. The fuel gauges on such aircraft are usually highly unreliable anyway and sometimes (?) are not even the correct ones for the aircraft. Lesson 2 would have been a GF excercise (?) so Mark 1 eyeball on the fuel level is really quite normal. Never assume that because the aircraft has only flown for, say, one hour since full tanks, that the fuel remaining is sufficient for, say three hours, always check the levels.
As to tyres on training aircraft, well that's a bit of a joke really. If you can't see canvas they're probably all right for lesson 2 when the instructor would be the one really landing the aircraft. If you were lanunching off into solo consolidation which presupposes some degree of multiple landings, then a bald patch might be rather more cause for concern.
I would have expected your instructor to have discussed both these points with you. I really do hope he did not just say: 'That's okay' without giving you his reasons.:D

[CherokeeDriver]

Tyres: Having suffered a blow out on landing I would express concern about "bald" tyres. The reality is the material underneath the tread is VERY strong so unless the runway is wet the tyres would have been safe. Like a cars tyres the "tread" helps prevent aquaplaning on a wet runway.

Fuel Gugae: ON a PA-28 they are about as much use as a chocolate teapot! I believe the regulations are for fuel guages only to be accurate when the tank is empty. As previous poster has said - ALWAYS look into the tanks. If you are low hours you may find landings easier with full tanks....

Personally I always make sure the tanks are topped up "to the tabs" every time I fly - even for a 1 hour local hop. Also remember you have to do fuel management on a PA-28 - the fuel tank switch is by your feet, and I am sure your instructor will tell you the correct way to switch tanks and "balance" the fuel you use.

Good luck - enjoy your training and don't ever be afraid to ask your instructor questions. When you are training the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. If you are uncomfortable with this try another instructor.:)

[mckrll]

Regarding the tyre issue:

When I trained, in Canada, if a tyre had to be replaced (as it usually was if it had a bald patch) it would be charged to the student who last flew the aircraft.

Thus identifying and reporting a bald patch on a tyre during your pre-flight checks would be important to establish that it was not you who caused it.

Andrew

[Paradism]

The answer to the question is simple. No you should not accept the aircraft.

If you are not satisfied with the tyre wear, have it measured against the Maintenance Manual limits, if it is outside limits the aircraft is unserviceable.

If the fuel gauge is unserviceable, check that there is an acceptable deferred defect enterred in the technical log and that the aircraft Minimum Equipment List permits the type of flying you intend to do. If there is no entry or the MEL does not allow your type of flight, don't fly.

[Dream Land]

A bit of common sense has to prevail, if it was an automobile, would you put your family in it for a trip through the mountains? :}

[tg743]

Hi,

Not beeing familiar with JAA regs at all, (atleast not yet) and I asume we are talking a flight under JAA rules I probably shouldn't say anything. But I couldn't resist. Over here in the US (were I fly) as far as I'm conserned a fuel gauge is a required item by FAR 91.205, and hence a inop gauge on a Pa28 would be a no go item.



thats just my two cents.

[AerocatS2A]

A bit of common sense has to prevail, if it was an automobile, would you put your family in it for a trip through the mountains? :}

Tyres are used a lot more in an automobile than in an aircraft :), and anyone who relies solely on their car's fuel guage is asking for trouble.

[Dream Land]

Fortunately I drive a Japanese car and motorcycle and they both have fuel gages that are more accurate than any Piper or Cessna aircraft.:E