Best Notam plotter

[Bert Stiles]

Has anyone any preferences or handy pointers to a good notam plotting site?

For a circuitous x -cty the AIS "narrow route brief" can use a forest and doesn't enable a plottable print out as far as I know.

The "Notam Check" effort gives a reasonable plot but there doesn't seem to be a way of eliminating either the notam code or translation when printing the text - you have to have both and another forest. The "unplottable" items can also spring some surprises.

Haven't tried the "Notam Plot" site mainly 'cos I'm fairly interested in stuff happening out to sea and a programme optimised for gliders shouldn't be too good at that.

Any others? - One where you put your route in and a map appears with notams plotted and annotated would be ...... ideal.

OK I don't expect much.

BS.

[Aussie Andy]

Notamplot - http://www.notamplot.com/ or http://www.notamplot.flyer.co.uk/

Haven't tried the "Notam Plot" site mainly 'cos I'm fairly interested in stuff happening out to sea and a programme optimised for gliders shouldn't be too good at that.Not sure why you'd say it doesn't work out to sea, and I don't know about the gliders connection, but I use it routinely and find it excellent. I also read the AIS stuff online just to double-check.

Andy

[Boing_737]

There is another web based utility called GA Book or something like that. Theres a link to it on Loops website. I tried it out @ Fly! It seems pretty good, although a little slow perhaps.

Tim

[DFC]

If you use the AIS narrow route for a VFR flight and define every turn point in your route before using something like a 10nm wide corridor (+/- 5nm) then unless you are doing a very long route there will not be many NOTAMS.

Yes there are a few unnecessary pieces of info eg why does the Southern MDA have to be NOTAMed throughout the whole FIR?....does a local Lands End Flight need to know about North Sea danger areas?

However, overall if you use the AIS software to it's full extent, it is quite good.

NOTAM plot will not ease your load because it will not plot all the NOTAMS. It will give you a long list of the NOTAMs that it is unable to plot and you have to individually check each unplotted notam just in case it applies to your flight.

The ideal situation would be for NOTAM plot to be able to download a narrow route brief and then plot those thus creating a situation where the unplotted ones are of interest and can be read easily.

Regards,

DFC

[Aussie Andy]

I find NOTAMPlot does ease my workload by helpging highlight the on-track nav warnings etc, and then I skim the written one from AIS as well.

Andy

[Mike Cross]

Bert

Most of the problems with the AIS site stem from a lack of proper understanding of how it works, or indeed how the ICAO NOTAM system works. I speak as the AOPA representative on NOTAM matters and have had an unhealthily close association with them over the past few years.

Plotting NOTAM is a tricky job. ICAO requires that each NOTAM has a geographic centre and a Radius of Influence (RoI). Something affecting an entire FIR will therefore have a centre roughly in the middle of the FIR but its RoI will mean that the boundary, were you to try and plot it, was off of your chart so how do you plot it? Plotting works fine for things that cover a limited geographic area but has limitations when it comes to big stuff.

For the AIS Site:-

First off, make sure you use a Narrow Route Brief (NRB), not a Route Brief. The Route Brief gives you aerodrome NOTAM for your departure arrival and alternate a/d plus the ENTIRE FIR. The Narrow Route Brief by default gives you NOTAM affecting 10nm either side of your intended track and does not result in a forest being felled. You can further filter down the data by using the filtering tools on the site, for example changing the Traffic field to VFR instead of the default IFR/VFR and by changing the UTC Validity Period (if left blank you get NOTAM valid during a 48 hour period starting from when you press Submit).

If you want to cover a geographic area rather than a route (for example for a multi-sector route or a circular X/C try this technique:-

Look at your chart and find two a/d that straddle the area in which you intend to fly. Use the NRB and set these two a/d as the departure and arrival a/d. Adjust the "Narrow Route Width" to create a box either side of the line beweeen the two a/d sufficiently wide to cover you intended area of operations. Put the a/d you intend to use during the flight(s) in as alternates to make sure you get any a/d NOTAM affecting them.

I'll be happy to respond to any technical queries you might have.

Mike

[Bert Stiles]

Mike et al,

Thanks for the replies. I have compared results using the various systems and so far the Nav check system works best. The problem with the AIS narrow route brief is that there is no graphical presentation which would help the overall workload. This is despite the refinements you highlighted.

Your suggestion of creating a box by use of two airfields and a wide swathe is possibly helpful for some flights.

A typical x- cty (for my aeroplane) would involve VFR/IFR and could use the length or breadth of the FIR, I'm interested in conflicting activity out to about 20 nm either side of track to cover any little excursions I might make. Sometimes the return leg is very close to the outward leg and so that the area notams reappear again and hence the forest. With a graphical plot they only need to appear once.

As DFC said the "unplottable" features of the Notam check site mean that you have to scan these and relate them to your track. Generally these are frequency/SSR code changes but occassionally a very significant hazard (to me) is highlighted.

Mike - I thought No 1 AIDU used to provide a plotted version, but if it still exists it must be under subscription. Do you know any more?

Thanks again one and all for their contributions.

BS.

[chrisN]

Quote; "Sometimes the return leg is very close to the outward leg and so that the area notams reappear again and hence the forest. With a graphical plot they only need to appear once. "

So, submit the request as though it is just for the outbound leg, but make sure the time period covers the whole flight time plus a bit, and just get them once. That's what I do.

The whole process takes me less than 10 minutes including editing down the returned list which is only about 2 pages-worth anyway - hardly what I call a forest. Sometimes I do two - one for the general area my gliding club uses for local soaring/bimbling, for which I normally edit out all but the most local nav warnings (we are rarely interested in RAC, Comms, etc.), and another for long out-and-return flights for me and one or two others. The second takes much less time than the first because I can delete all the repeated RAC and comms etc. stuff without reading them again.

Chris N.

[FlyingForFun]

The lack of graphical output from the AIS website is a problem, there is no doubt about it.

But, once you get used to it, it's difficult to find anything else which is better.

I tend to fly the same routes regularly, which makes things a little easier, because my Briefing Handbook contains saved queries for my regular routes. All I need to do to get Notams is amend the period of validity and review the query, then press Submit.

The output which comes back is not unduly long by any means. But every now and then, I come across a Notam which contains huge numbers of co-ordinates, which may affect my route. Or even a Notam with a single set of co-ordinates, but no place name or a name I'm not familiar with. I then have to get my chart out and plot these points on the chart - and that is far more time-consuming than getting and reading the Notams in the first place. A less diligent pilot might well decide it is not worth the effort......

The next best thing I've found is NotamPlot, which is a fantastic tool. My one big gripe about NotamPlot is the unplotted Notams. There is no way to filter out unwanted unplotted Notams. There are generally a very large number of these unplotted Notams, and most of them are IFR only. As a VFR pilot, if it were possible to filter the IFR Notams out of the unplotted list, this would probably make NotamPlot my favourite tool.

What would be nice is if the two could be combined in some way - so you get the query capabilities of the AIS website (not as user-friendly as it could be, but very flexible once you get used to it and returns a manageable number of Notams) combined with the graphical output of NotamPlot.

FFF
---------------

[Mike Cross]

Bert
The AIDU NOTAM display system was on trial some years ago. There's some information on it here. (http://www.laser-scan.com/pdf/gothic_nds.pdf?PHPSESSID=16090dbc7022fd5408101ee94c96f89b) Suggest you contact No 1 AIDU for more info.
FFF
I confess that when I see a NOTAM along the lines of:-
H0638/06 - AUS 06-04-0197/765/AS4 NAV TRAINING EXERCISE. 6 JETSTREAM ACFT WI AREA BOUNDED BY 5204N 00600W 5155N 00520W 5140N 00520W 5136N 00524W 5124N 00503W 5049N 00517W 5024N 00509W 5005N 00542W 4954N 00542W 4954N 00512W 4926N 00512W 4850N 00800W 5100N 00800W ORIGIN. ACFT WILL OPERATE OVER THE SEA AND REMAIN CLEAR OF REGULATED AIRSPACE UNLESS UNDER THE CONTROL OF APPROPRIATE AUTHORITY. ACFT WILL OPERATE IN VMC OR IMC AND MAY BE UNABLE TO COMPLY WITH RULES OF THE AIR. ACN 2006-00-0012 DATED 02 DEC 05 REFERS. CONTACT 01326 557267. 500FT AMSL FL120 24 APR 09:00 UNTIL 05 MAY 13:00 APR 24-27 AND MAY 02-05 0900-1115 AND 1300-1515, APR 28 AND MAY 05 0750-1300
I wonder why they bother and I confess to not plotting it. Six aircraft doing a NAVEX between 500 ft and FL120 shouldn't really fall within the definition of what requires a NOTAM IMHO.
"A notice containing information concerning the establishment, condition or change in any aeronautical facility, service, procedure or hazard, the timely knowledge of which is essential to personnel concerned with flight operations"

Mike

[DFC]

Being unable (or should that be unwilling) to comply with the rules of the air is most definitely a hazard.

The bits that anoy me are the North Sea danger area being given such a radius of influence that they appear on every narrow route briefing even one from Lands End to 1nm down the road.

Regards,

DFC

[funfly]

I know that this is a blatent plug but you may find that http://www.funfly.co.uk is a useful pre flight workspace.
It was a webpage that was originally set up for myself for when I was away from my home computer but quite a few others have found it useful so I have tarted it up and starting to push it for general use.
Some if the referencies lack a bit of content but it is early days and I am hoping that people will offer me their own websites to include.
Anyway it don't cost nuffink, so please feel free to have a look.
G-BYZD

[Mike Cross]

Being unable (or should that be unwilling) to comply with the rules of the air is most definitely a hazard.
Yes one does wonder why (does the Navy issue Notices to Mariners saying "Navigation Exercise - participating vessels may not be able to avoid crashing into other shipping"?) However in practical terms one can do no more than one should be doing anyway, keeping a good lookout. In my yoof this was referred to in one Nautical Almanac as "the ordinary practice of seamen". I preferred not to ponder on what this might consist of.

[IO540]

I've been using the ais.org.uk narrow route briefing (NRB) for about 3 years now. During that time I have read so much stuff on these pilot forums about people having to wade through "too much stuff" but never understood what the problem is.

I think there is a massive lack of understanding in this area. PPL training doesn't help - I bet few schools teach ais.org.uk and much fewer will tell you about the NRB.

For starters, the NRB doesn't pull out too much stuff. If you plot a flight from the UK to say Greece, you will get perhaps 5 pages but a quick scan shows that nearly all of it is cr*p, for example notams from Greece saying they control their airspace and not Turkey, closely followed by notams from Turkey saying they control their airspace and not Greece. Then you might get a load of reports of unlit obstacles along the length of Italy. So what? It takes 1 minute to spot the rubbish. On flights within the UK (perhaps 99% of a UK PPL's activity) there is far less rubbish.

Next, ignore the stuff which was put in there to cover somebody's ar*e. Most notams are there just for that reason. Nav warnings (NAVW) are in that category. A NAVW might tell you about some military activity in an area specified by a horrid coordinate list. Do you have to plot it? NO, the military fly potentially everywhere anyway, ducking microlights and all the other low level PPL traffic. This stuff is irrelevant. The sky is big! If you fly at 600ft you are more likely to hit some parachute with a lawn mower on the back of it than a Harrier.

What matters is temporary restricted areas, temporary Class A, inop VORs, inop instrument approaches, closed runways, and stuff like that. In 3 years and some 500 hours and trips up to 800nm per leg, I have never had a notam list that took longer than a few minutes to look at, and that includes the bizzare Greek/Turkish stuff.

I also don't remember the last time I had to plot coordinates. Maybe once or twice. That's why I never bothered with a graphical plotting program. It would hardly ever get used.

The NRB seems to be a well kept secret!

There is zero prospect of anything changing. GA doesn't even feature on the aviation horizon, and IFR traffic tends to ignore en route notams anyway - it flies under radar control. The system is international and there are countless people around the world stuffing reports into the system about duff bulbs in lamp-posts.

[FlyingForFun]

The NRB seems to be a well kept secret!That's very true. Other than people who read these forums, go to seminars, or have instructors who tell them about it, most people wouldn't know that the Narrow Route Brief is what they are looking for, even if they stumble across the AIS website. (And remember that, although there are doubtless a few instructors out there who don't show their students how to get NOTAMs, maybe even don't know themselves, there are also plenty of PPLs who have little involvement with flying schools and aren't in a position for instructors to show them.)

Perhaps the biggest single improvement which could be easily made would be to rename it, and make it more obvious (not just by the name, but also by the location of the link) that this is the "normal" briefing.

FFF
--------------

[wrecker]

I find Notam map by Andy Hall an excellent aid
it is freely downloadable from http://www.notam-map.co.uk//index.html

[Bert Stiles]

I'll have a look at Notam map as well. Thanks.

As for IO540's assertions - well, you're entitled to your opinion. The military would disagree with you for a start - that's possibly why they still employ people to stick pins in maps. Most can't afford that luxury. There are those who have been checking Notams for all the continents and oceans of the world for several decades for one reason or another and some systems are adequate for what they need, but sometimes they need improvement (DIY obviously, as the authorities wouldn't be interested). Yes, much of it is irrelevant to one user or another, but there are flights for which a forest WILL be generated - it just takes imagination to realise that. I seek experience of the UK systems to merge the information for my uses.

BS.

[IO540]

The military would disagree with you for a start

Disagree with what?

That they fly anywhere anytime anyway?

Many years ago, long before I started flying, the RAF was bigger than it is today, and did a lot more flying. There was no ais.org.uk back then, so how did pilots (those that go places and didn't spend their days hanging around flying schools/clubs) find out this vital information without which they would surely collide with an RAF aircraft?

They didn't, and it didn't matter.

The sky is big, the RAF navigates for most part visually (they really are tremendously traditional in this respect, which is why I wonder what capability the RAF would have if they ever had to do something big for real, but that's another matter) and they look after themselves. They get a lot more of a radar service than PPLs do. The front line jets also have radar.

But today's RAF could not muster enough planes on a given day to create a statistically significant collision risk. You are far more likely to hit a parachute with a lawn mower attached to it :O

If you can get a radar service, ask for it. They might give you an FIS only but (assuming you have a transponder, mode C, which is a big assumption) they will separate other traffic from you.

If you fly through an AIAA then obviously call them up.

The NAVW notams are IMV worthless. It's somebody covering their ar*e.

[Bert Stiles]

What proportion of airproxes involve the military? - the Cat A ones ? If there were no notams for their activities would there be the same number, more or less ? You would argue the same number. I would argue more. We differ.

BS.

[VNAVSPD]

NotamPlot is excellent, but as Aussie Andy pointed out, always double check with the AIS website.

[IO540]

This is the problem, isn't it?

Unless you can trust the graphical tool 100% (which you can't because the data format is pretty free and easy and contains occassional typos) you are still back to plotting coordinate lists..................

Fortunately, most of the said lists aren't worth plotting, OMHO.

[Mike Cross]

It rather depends on where the graphical tools obtain their data. Until recently most of them worked by parsing the free-form text that forms the "E" line of the NOTAM message. This is because the "Q" Line, which IS to a defined format was not available via the AIS website. NotamPlot was an exception because it derived its data from AvBrief, which included the "Q" Line.
As a result of lobbying from me and others the "Q" line is now included in the AIS briefs, opening the way for graphical plotting tools to use it.
ICAO, who define the NOTAM format, designed the "Q" Line specifically for Electronic Data Processing (though I doubt they envisaged plotting at the time).
Art 52 of the ANO 2005 is the relevant bit of legislation:-Pre-flight action by commander of aircraft
52 The commander of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom shall take all reasonable steps to satisfy himself before the aircraft takes off:
(a) that the flight can safely be made, taking into account the latest information available as to the route and aerodrome to be used, the weather reports and forecasts available and any alternative course of action
How he does it is up to him. If you want to use a graphical plotting tool it's up to you to ensure that it does the job. As a first step I'd suggest you check where the data used to do the plotting comes from.
A problem with the ICAO format is that the "Q" line only includes a centre point and Radius of Influence (RoI). This enables a circle to be drawn that encompasses (but does not define) the area within which the activity takes place. This is why refuelling exercises over the North Sea get a big RoI. They fly up and down in a long straight line, which requires a big circle to enclose it. While the "E" Line may include the co-ordinates there is not a standard for the way in which they are presented and therefore a risk that automated plotting systems may not be able to accurately plot them.

[DFC]

I agree with what IO540 says. While the military are good enough to tell us when they are going to ignore the rules of the air in class G, the average PPL who also on a regular basis ignores the rules of the air is not so kind. Lookout during visual flight and obtaining a radar service (when available) for flight in IMC is a good way to go.

Here are some resons why the narrow route briefing tool is underused;

1. Unless one operates to and from an aerodrome with ICAO designator, one has to tell a lie to the system to get information. Having told the lie, the information received will fit that lie and not the intended route. Solution - allow private airfields to have a local UK code eg Joe Browns Farm could be eg123.

Yes I know that is 5 caracters but it will not be used for flight plans so who cares!

2. Pilots in the UK are far beind the curve when it comes to flight plans (compared to pilots elsewhere when filing is more usual). Thus the route format is hard to understand when one does not understand what a flight plan is. Solution - more training in this area. Perhaps making it a standard that a full flight plan would be filed for solo crosscountry exercises (and some dual to get the practice).

3. People do not use the extra filters and end up with 2 days worth of notams for a 1 hour flight.

Solution - stop the silly practice of saying that all one has to do is fill in the yellow boxes. People who do that get too many NOTAMs.

4. Stop making something like a change to the London City CTA or activity in a north sea danger area applicable to the whole FIR. People in Lands end do not what that rubbish in their briefs.

The NATs AIS software has the capability to produce NOTAM briefings for a radius round an aerodrome. Please permit it's use because what training airfields want most is notams within 30 or 40 or whatever nm from the field to cover local training traffic.

As for plotting NOTAM.

There is a very simple and low cost solution.

The FIR controllers at LACC have access to plotted information for that day updated as necessary by the assistant. Not sure of the current method of display (perhaps a FISO(A) could say) but;

If it is the old map system, a simple digital photo (or 3) posted on the AIS website ensures that the FIR controler and the pilots have the same info. Updates could be made as necessary.

Even better a webcam saves having to do the updates!

If however the LACC has an electronic version then AIS has access to the information already and putting the information on the website is not a big deal.

Regards,

DFC

[Mike Cross]

DFC
Are you aware of this list of dummy ICAO codes (http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/en/image/oad.pdf) covering 33 aviation sites in the UK? They have all been allocated a code beginning X because that is not already used by ICAO in a country identifier. If you want any added drop an e-mail to AIS and you could get lucky.
For a local flying area my suggestion is to:-

Pick two a/d that straddle your flying area, then set up a Narrow Route Brief using them as the departure and arrival.
Set the Narrow Route Width (default 10nm either side of the direct track between the two) sufficiently high to define a box that encloses your flying area.
Put your own a/d and any others that you might use within the area as alternates to ensure you get a/d NOTAM affecting them. Give it a meaningful briefing id (eg "LOCAL").
Submit it

It will now be saved in the "Briefing Handbook" and you can re-use it whenever you want.
Mike

[Brooklands]

Bert,
Have you had a look at SkybookGA (https://www.skybook.co.uk/skybook/index.php)? Loop Magazine (http://www.loop.aero) are offering a free trial for May. I seems that it may do what you want, although I can't be certain as I have done any more than look at their demos so far.

There are also some comments about it here (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=22495&sid=a15fe500760d46e5c2c8f8b6c034fe47) on the Flyer forums.
Brooklands

[Bert Stiles]

Thanks for the steer Brooklands.

BS

[DFC]

Mike,

Are these codes a secret or is there an AIC, a NOTAM or even a note on the AIS website where the average person will find out that they exist?

As for your idea for making a local plan - sorry but the idea of having to find some point 10 nm away is not required. Furthermore, it will not create a circle of the aerodrome!

To create a local radius from an airfield lucky enough to have an ICAO designator, simply note the airfields lat/long (if you don't know then look it up on the AIS website!). In the route, specify dct to a lat/long that is 1 minute North, South, East or West of the airfield lat/long and then dct back to the same airfield. Produces a nice circle (or very close to) of the desired radius.

However, the point is that we should not have to come up with ways of cheating the system. The system should be able to produce a report based on a radius from an aerodrome with height and time filters specified. The software can do it but it has not been enabled.

Shame because that is the most common type of briefing required by clubs and schools.

Perhaps we can get AIS to look at other countries that use the same software properly and produce better reports for local UK flying than UK AIS!

Regards,

DFC

[Mike Cross]

DFC
The list of dummy codes is referred to on the Help page of the AIS website (click PIB Help (http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/en/pib.htm) either on the panel at the left hand side of the login page or on the drop-down "HELP" menu once you have logged in. It's also referred to in the index and on Page 32 of the User Guide (http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/en/image/PIBGuide.PDF), links to which also appear in the same places. AIS have a quantity of these printed, if you phone them I'm sure they'l send you one on request.
Your way of getting a brief for a radius round an a/d works fine, however for many airfields the training area is not a circle round the a/d (White Waltham for example) but is an area off to one side.
The software ain't designed to give a radius round an a/d. It's designed for you to input a Flight Plan and get a briefing. (The on-line Flight Plan filing has not been implemented in the UK) This accounts for the "Briefing id" which is meant for a Flight No and the "UTC Date and Time of Flight" boxes which have no effect on the result returned.
The only place where a "Radius" is involved is on the "Route Briefing" input screen and it's to do with height filtering. As the User Guide (http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/en/image/PIBGuide.PDF) explains:-Radius: This value is applies around the departure and destination airfield. No matter what cruising level Interval is selected, En-route NOTAM that fall within this radius (from SFC to 12000ft) will appear in the brief.

Hope this is helpful

Mike

[IO540]

The other things, if you want to specify a non-ICAO airfield, is to use

1. a nearby airways intersection

2. the VOR-relative specification XXXRRRDDD e.g. MID270015 being 270 radial from MID, 15nm.

3. lat/long

It's no rocket science.

Especially as people flying from farm strips are on the whole less likely to fly in precise straight lines :O

Time to duck ....