Instructor pay?

[Lewy-]

This may seem a bit of a rude question to ask, but what is the average pay for flying instructors at a small airfield.

I know pay would of course vary from place to place etc..
but just wondering what a FI could expect on average?

Lewis.

[Cavallier]

When I was instructing last year I was receiving 12.50 an hour plus a monthly retainer of 300 pounds. Just about manageable in the summer but a nightmare come the winter months. I reckon you will find this fairly standard around the South of England.

Good Luck,
The Cav:cool:

[Pilotdom]

Whilst I learn at Sherburn on my receipt the break down of costs shows the instructor fee as £25.00 per hour. They are self emplyed so minus tax etc and with only 6 hours flying in the winter months and the summer months a bit better there yearly wage after tax in my view would be about £25000?

[porridge]

Pilotdom
In your dreams does a PPL instructor earn £25k per year. On the £25/hour the school will take 50% to 40% of that £25/hour. I'd say your Sherburn instructors make about £13k to 16k per annum. If they make £25k expect a flood of instructors lining up for work at Sherburn!

[Han 1st Solo]

I work for a busy school in the Leeds area. Unrestricted FI's get £15.00 an hour, restricted FI's get £10.00. Rumours of a £5.00 across the board pay rise in june but nothing definate. No retainers, as the PPL CFI I get £18000.00 a year. Lots of hours though. Instructors, with sim and solo are logging well over 100 hours a month at the moment, the winter months as stated above are very lean, particularly from october to the end of february.

Hope this helps,

Han.

[bogbeagle]

Sherburn's instructors get £16.50 an hour. The student is charged £25 per hour. Club takes the difference.

[VFE]

A few question from me too....

1) What do most instructors do during the lean months to survive?

2) Would it be difficult to take home around £800 a month throughout the year depending on where you're instructing?

3) Is there a trend for weekly or monthly pay packets?

Don't hold much wintertime hope for those who instruct on top of a hill (EGNM)!

VFE.

[Chinchilla.612]

VFE, to answer your 1st question:
I keep the wolf from the door during quiet periods by working as a taxi driver (never needed extra jobs before starting flying as a "living" though). I've met a couple of other guys doing the same thing too, as it's another self employed job and paid cash in hand if you catch my drift.

[VFE]

Chinchilla.612,

Thanks for your reply. To avoid thread creap I have PM'd you a couple of questions re:driving job - would love it if you could spare a coupla moments to answer them for me please?

Cheers,

VFE.

[Chinchilla.612]

VFE,
Have PM'd you with the requested info. Any other questions, then feel free to ask away.
All the best,
Chinchilla.

[FlyingRat]

Just about to start with a large school in the South East. Restricted FI.

£20 ph. No retainer. Don't really know how many hours to expect.

There are 'extras' for ground school lectures & ferrying when it's avaliable.

[porridge]

For those considering a career as a flying instructor here's a general view of PPL instructor earnings based on around 600 hours a year:
PPL on conventional Fixed Wing: £12k pa
PPL Microlight 3 axis Fixed Wing: £36k pa
Cost to gain FI(R) on conventional FW - (CPL + FI rating): +/- £24k
Cost to gain FI(R) on FW 3 axis Microlight - PPL + FI rating): +/- £12k
Best return on investment has to be as Microlight Instructor

[Kaptain Kremen]

36K as a microlight instructor?! As a straight forward FI(R)? :hmm:
You must be having a laugh. (unless you own the school, the aircraft etc etc.)

[Lewy-]

For those considering a career as a flying instructor here's a general view of PPL instructor earnings based on around 600 hours a year:
PPL on conventional Fixed Wing: £12k pa
PPL Microlight 3 axis Fixed Wing: £36k pa
Cost to gain FI(R) on conventional FW - (CPL + FI rating): +/- £24k
Cost to gain FI(R) on FW 3 axis Microlight - PPL + FI rating): +/- £12k
Best return on investment has to be as Microlight Instructor

After all these replies im a bit stuck for ideas now.
I decided to go straight for flying instructor rather than try airlines first, because i like the idea of flying out of small flight schools and doing pleasure flights.

But compared to some ATP earnings of around 60k a year, i may try for that first. Especially after hearing that some FI's have a second job in the winter.

[porridge]

KK
Yes, quite acheiveable. Most ML instructors work as one man band out a farm field etc, yes they do own their own aircraft - I understand that's how it has to work, or if some has their own aircaraft the ML Instructor can teach on it. They appear to charge between £60 & £70 an hour for this. I know one ML Instructor who told me he makes £95 an hout doing instruction on a Thruster MLA. He owns and operates a Beech Baron so the money must come from somewhere. I didn't believe him either until I did some reseach on the BMAA website and found out it was true.
I've been looking at the Czech built E97 Eurostar (http://www.cosmikaviation.co.uk/) which goes for £44k inc. vat and it cruises at 90 kts and burns 11 litres of MOGAS an hour. Seems a very nice little trainer too; equally up to the ubiquitous PA38 or the C150, but it burns a tenner of fuel per hour instead of £26/hour! Those who have them offer TL's in them at £99/hour - go figure as they say.

[crap pilot]

Porridge, you have not accounted for maintenance, aircraft depreciation and a great number of other factors in your sums.

[porridge]

Maintenance costs are very low - have a look at the PFA site - besides on these very simple aircraft you can do the maintenance yourself - again see the PFA site.
I think what everyone is conditioned to is the very expensive maintenance costs we are used to in GA aircraft. What do you pay for your car maintenance? Now these aircraft are even simpler than your average car, so are the engines. Really it is one of the best kept secrets in aviation. Whatever anyone says they – the ML instructors – are getting £60 to £70 per hour when they instruct on aircraft owned by the trainee!
Check on the BMAA website (http://www.bmaa.org/). After all, do you know what driving instructors make, certainly not £12k pa! These guys want to make an average living too as self-employed people I don’t think £60k pa is excessive, just realistic.
We are just used to getting screwed. Now here’s another thing how about RW instructors? Do you think they work for £12k a year?

[bogbeagle]

Don't know how much microlight instructors earn, but Porridge is certainly correct to say that conventional FW instructors get screwed.

In reality, what happens is that lowly paid instructors effectively subsidise the PPls' flying training.

Won't never change until we get organised into a Union. Then we can be just like other professionals, charge a decent rate in the knowledge that the guy next door won't undercut us. Solicitors do it, why can't we?

Alternatively, the employment laws may come to our aid. As some of you may know, the Inland Revenue is assessing the status of "so-called" self-employed flying instructors. A decision has not been reached, as yet, but I hear rumours that there is a call for us to be given the protection of the law and made employees.

If we attain a proper status as employees, we may then dare to raise our heads above the parapet and organise ourselves into an effective professional body.

[Lewy-]

I dont know how most flying schools retian thier instructors when they are paid so low for thier very skilled job.

[Flying Farmer]

Because for the vast majority of low houred guys and gals it is the ONLY way to build hours, so that either the airlines or a multi piston charter operator will look at you.

The rates of pay are dismall by anyones standards. I had many days where it actually cost me to go to work, ie: you get to the club and either the weather turns to pants or the student couldn't be arsed to pitch up.

One club I was employed by, even had the cheek to tell me not to bother to come in again after the last flight of the day. No written or verbal warnings, just on your bike old boy, we both knew that on the £10 an hour I was earning there was no way I would be able to fight the case :*

At least in my last club, the minimum wage was paid after hours spent on duty were taken into account. I really do feel that somewhere in the region of £5 an hour is taking the urine somewhat for such a skilled job.

Rant over because nothing will change in the near future.

[Lewy-]

I am about to start study leave before i take my GCSE's, but incase i dont meet the minimum requirements for an airline job, i was going to be happy with a FI job at the airfield where i am learning to fly currently. But with these low rates of pay, im a bit concerned.

[bencoulthard]

A union is the only way to go, but on the other hand if you are wanting to hour build only then look at it this way, you'd pay a very minimum of £90 an hour wet to build them yourself. Also if/when you get a commercial job the salary should pay off any debts you ran up.

[Benix]

i get £10ph flight pay only at an airfield in the SE. Have to resort to crap jobs such a a bit of shelf stacking or bar work to make some extra dosh. Only getting about 30hrs a month at the moment which is really getting me down from whats meant to be a pretty much full time job :(
Also if/when you get a commercial job the salary should pay off any debts you ran up
Ben that may be true if you look at it in that aspect, but doesn't help when you already got £30k+ in debt from CPL/IR and have to have 2 or 3 jobs to just pay the loan repayments, or indeed help those who wish to instruct as a career. Is the most rediculous industry I ever come across. Now if only that :mad: Tony would get rid of the damm tax on avgas then we might be able to make a living

[bogbeagle]

The price of AVGAS will have no effect upon your income, I fear. Crappy instructor' pay has bog-all to do with Tony Blair. It may be that a few more people will learn to fly, but your hourly rate won't change.

As I see things, the fixed costs of running a training aircraft can't vary much between schools. They all need a C of A , insurance, fuel and maintenance. One of the few areas in which a school's owners can save money is on Staff wages. Since all the tuppeny-ha'penny schools are competing on price, the result is as you see it.

Look at Humberside. There's, I think, four flying schools on site, all competing for the same bit of business. Result is that all the aircraft are under-utilised and everyone is cutting each other's throat in a bid to gain custom.

Seems to me that co-operation, not competition, is the way to improve the instructor's lot.

[IRRenewal]

I know of one club in Essex which is looking for an unristricted FI at the moment, and is willing to pay a very good retainer plus hourly pay.

I am not associated with this club, and only know about it because they asked me if I'd be interested.

PM me if you'd like further details so you can contact them directly.

Cheers

Gerard