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IO540
25th Apr 2006, 06:31
Can anyone point me to the CAA ruling which makes the above legal?

Especially for helicopters; most SE ones have never had IFR certification.

Yet, SVFR excepted, night=IFR in the UK.

S-Works
25th Apr 2006, 11:10
and most GA aircraft that fly at night don't meet the requirements for IFR flight either. I think it is one of those things that falls through the cracks.

I did some night training in an R22 and I know that it is not IFR certified.

PPRuNe Radar
25th Apr 2006, 11:39
The ANO details the schedule of equipment required for flight at night, as well as for IFR in different classes of airspace. Schedule 4 (Articles 16[9] and 19[2]) is the bit you want.

For non public transport flight by an aeroplane you need the following:


Flying at night: Equipment scales C & D

IFR outside CAS: Equipment scale D

IFR in Class A,B or C: Equipment scales E with E(4) duplicated & F

IFR in Class D or E: Equipment scales E & F


For helicopters and gyroplanes you need:

Flying at night

(aa) with visual ground reference: Equipment scales C, E, G(3) and G(5) and (6)

(bb) without visual ground reference outside controlled airspace: Equipment scales C, E with E(2) duplicated, G(3) and G(5) and (6)

(cc) without visual ground reference within controlled airspace: Equipment scales C, E with both E(2) and E(4) duplicated, F with F(4) for all weights, G(3) and G(5) and (6)






Equipment scales:

Scale C

(1) Equipment for displaying the lights required by the Rules of the Air Regulations 1996.

(2) Electrical equipment, supplied from the main source of supply in the aircraft, to provide sufficient illumination to enable the flight crew properly to carry out their duties during flight.

(3) Unless the aircraft is equipped with radio, devices for making the visual signal specified in the Rules of the Air Regulations 1996 as indicating a request for permission to land.


Scale D

(1) In the case of a helicopter or gyroplane, a slip indicator.

(2) In the case of any other flying machine either:
(a) a turn indicator and a slip indicator; or
(b) a gyroscopic bank and pitch indicator and a gyroscopic direction indicator.
(c) A sensitive pressure altimeter adjustable for any sea level barometric pressure which the weather report or forecasts available to the commander of the aircraft indicate is likely to be encountered during the intended flight.

Scale E

(1) In the case of:
(a) a helicopter or gyroplane, a slip indicator;
(b) any other flying machine, a slip indicator and either a turn indicator or, at the option of the operator, an additional gyroscopic bank and pitch indicator.

(2) A gyroscopic bank and pitch indicator.

(3) A gyroscopic direction indicator.

(4) A sensitive pressure altimeter adjustable for any sea level barometric pressure which the weather report or forecasts available to the commander of the aircraft indicate is likely to be encountered during the intended flight.

Scale F

(1) A timepiece indicating the time in hours, minutes and seconds.
(2) A means of indicating whether the power supply to the gyroscopic instrument is adequate.
(3) A rate of climb and descent indicator.
(4) A means of indicating in the flight crew compartment the outside air temperature calibrated in degrees celsius.
(5) If the maximum total weight authorised of the aircraft exceeds 5700 kg two air speed indicators.

Scale G

(1) In the case of an aircraft other than a helicopter or gyroplane landing lights consisting of 2 single filament lamps, or one dual filament lamp with separately energisedfilaments.

(2) An electrical lighting system to provide illumination in every passenger compartment.

(3) Either:
(a) One electric torch for each member of the crew of the aircraft; or
(b) one electric torch:
(i) for each member of the flight crew of the aircraft; and
(ii) affixed adjacent to each floor level exit intended for the disembarkation of
passengers whether normally or in an emergency, provided that such torches shall:

(aa) be readily accessible for use by the crew of the aircraft at all times; and
(bb) number in total not less than the minimum number of members of the
cabin crew required to be carried with a full passenger complement.

(4) In the case of an aircraft other than a helicopter or gyroplane of which the maximum total weight authorised exceeds 5700 kg, means of observing the existence and build up of ice on the aircraft.

(5) In the case of a helicopter carrying out Performance Class 1 or 2 operations or a gyroplane in respect of which there is in force a certificate of airworthiness designating the gyroplane as being of performance group A, either:
(a) 2 landing lights both of which are adjustable so as to illuminate the ground in front of and below the helicopter or gyroplane and one of which is adjustable so as to illuminate the ground on either side of the helicopter or gyroplane; or
(b) one landing light or, if the maximum total weight authorised of the helicopter or gyroplane exceeds 5700 kg, one dual filament landing light with separately energised filaments, or 2 single filament lights, each of which is adjustable so as to illuminate the ground in front of and below the helicopter or gyroplane, and 2 parachute flares.

(6) In the case of a helicopter carrying out Performance Class 3 operations or a gyroplane in respect of which there is in force a certificate of airworthiness designating the gyroplane as being of performance group B, either:
(a) one landing light and 2 parachute flares; or
(b) if the maximum total weight authorised of the helicopter or gyroplane exceeds 5700 kg, either one dual filament landing light with separately energised filaments or 2 single filament landing lights, and 2 parachute flares.



Good luck finding the cracks ;)

IO540
25th Apr 2006, 11:50
Well you have listed the equipment requirements for IFR, but if the whole airframe has never seen IFR certification, none of this is of any relevance.

You could load up a Katana or an R22 with all the specified equipment but it still won't make it legal for IFR.

I wondered if the "crack" is IFR OCAS, perhaps by staying in Class G, and with any Class D (or Class A for that matter, plenty of that going on) transits being done under SVFR, but I still don't see that helps. IFR is IFR, day or night. SVFR would be OK but possible only in a CTR which makes it of very limited use.

Mark 1
25th Apr 2006, 12:29
A lot of CofA and POH documents don't specifically exclude flight in IMC, so as long as the required equipment is carried, then no problem.

I know some aircraft are designated VFR only in their countries of origin (like France), because they don't really recognise IFR outside of controlled airspace.

I spoke to an airworthiness surveyor once at the CAA, who had imposed a tighter aft CG in the UK on a certain French aircraft. His reasoning was that, as it could be flown in IMC and at night in the UK, he would require greater pitch stability.

I occasionally fly a French aircraft, where there is no reference to flight conditions in the limitations.

PPRuNe Radar
25th Apr 2006, 12:33
Can't see where in the ANO under the IFR rules it says the aircraft must be IFR certificated. But I'll keep looking.

If that is not stated, then there are only 4 things which need to be complied with. The aircraft has the equipment as per the schedule, the aircraft is operated within the limits of its airworthiness certificate (and the POH if that is part of its certificate), the pilot flies within the limitations of his licence (VMC criteria, etc), and the published IFR Rules in the ANO are followed.

Are Katanas and Robbies specifically banned from night flight in their CoA's ??

Squadgy
25th Apr 2006, 12:34
Well you have listed the equipment requirements for IFR, but if the whole airframe has never seen IFR certification, none of this is of any relevance.

Isn't this confusing IFR with IMC? IIRC when I did my PPL on the Katana they were placarded as VMC Day Only. Not VFR Day Only. What would be the rationale for preventing an aircraft from flying in accordance with the IFR as long as it remained in VMC?

PPRuNe Radar
25th Apr 2006, 12:52
Mark 1

Reading up on the ANO further, you have the answer. Namely that aircraft must operate within the limitations in their Airworthiness Certificates (either from the UK or their State of Registry if different).

So if it states 'Day Only', then you can't fly at night ever - either IFR or Special VFR.

If it states 'VMC Only' then you can fly at night in VMC (which could be under either IFR or Special VFR).

If it states neither in your UK CoA, but has one of these limitations in the POH, then I guess you need to go with the POH accordingly.

Does the UK actually use 'IFR certified' in its aircraft documentation, or does it use the more common sense system of placing limitations instead ?? My aircraft CoA is not to hand unfortunately.

IO540
25th Apr 2006, 13:51
The issue is much more pronounced with helicopters, AIUI. These have IFR certification, or not. If not, they should be technically in breach at night in the UK.

Most aeroplanes in common usage, OTOH, are OK for IFR (if they carry the specified equipment).

I didn't intend to suggest any of this makes any sense :O Obviously the aircraft is not aware of the position of the sun, and the UK's night=IFR rule is plain daft against all the other countries. But this is aviation! There is an exemption which legalises it for the UK PPL (IFR is allowed in VMC) but I have not found such an exemption for the aircraft.

helicopter-redeye
25th Apr 2006, 15:38
A SE Helicopter VFR approved can fly at night (subject to the correct equipment being on board and servicable).

The confusion may be that you are flying under IFR rules (even though, wisely, with adequate celesital illumination and not in IMC conditions) even if flying visually.


(caveat, I'm pretty sure that's right)