Jetstar advertising for drivers in the Middle East

[Metroboy]

Word on the street downunder is that a group of Airbus Captains will soon resign from Emirates, and return to Australia to take up their "retirement jobs" setting up Jetstar International.

Suggested rates of pay are about 40% less than current Qantas A330 drivers.

[SecurID]

There's a lot to be said for leaving the sandpit behind and going home, especially after the way everyone has been treated here over the last few years.

There are things that money just cannot buy...

[Vorsicht]

Hope its true, but the same rumour went around a few months back about Virgin Blue international or something similar.

I suspect it is a windup, if so, post it in the D & G forum then sit back and watch the display.

You will get some serious bites down there.

[Calligula]

Howdy

This rumour started on qrewroom after a well known 'name' F/O filled his pants listening to carp whilst on a visit to EK looking for a job.

Subsequent reports from other ex QF guys in EK indicated that whilst there are issues, a mass exodus is not likely.

The F/O is was the 'source' of this information is well known for his harassment of any female that crosses his path - he is on his last legs as far as QF is concerned.

[Scooter Rassmussin]

But if Jet Star do get widebodies then many Capts and F/os will leave.
If you are going to have a terrible lifestyle and low pay you may as well have it at home , or your first choice of visa destinations.......:cool:

[Flying Mechanic]

A Jetstar A320 is passing through Dubai on the 14 Novemeber with a Management Pilot onboard, and preliminary interviews will be carried out for some lucky ones in Dubai.....get your Cv's in chaps this could be your ticket out of the sandpit.

[cyclops camel]

As soon as Jetstar offer me Oz$14000 per month in hand plus a house, utilities, private schooling for my 3 kids, bonus and overtime - I'm off!!
That, or when the UAE ban kite surfing - whichever comes first.
Return to Oz in the near future? Keep dreaming - or discovering!
CC.

[Calligula]

The deal for JQ international for a capt is $160 K AUD.

No allowances, no o/t, 2nd rate hotels, pay for your own endorsement, fly to CAO 48.1 exemption.

You boys are welcome to it.

[ernestkgann]

good plan mr camel....you stay, I'll go

[Global Nomad]

Calligula...

Don't forget to deduct income tax.

[max AB]

Calligula how polite you are up here in the northern hemisphere, not like on the Down Under Forum at all. Very nice of you to welcome my fellow EK drivers to the possible 330 jobs at J*. Is this so when they get there you can say this about them (pilots) who having failed selection for every airline in the free world, will get a job flying a jet (at J*) the only way they know how - by undercutting everyone else And this ... the jetstar losers do not operate to the same standards now do they boys . Perhaps you should decide which side of the equator best suits your personality, the fish have left the beaches of Dubai, so nothing to catch up here I am afraid, try again in the Southern Latitudes.

[Calligula]

Hi Max.

I was referring to JQ Aust in my other posts.


JQ int will be a completely different kettle of fish. The word is that Joyce is looking at a 'greenfields' contract which will exclude everyone in QF / JQ and AO.

He will look to hire aussie expats such as yourself who are keen to come home.

I have become resigned to it all now, but it is worthwhile for you guys to be informed about the reality of working for this new carrier.

Such low conditions may not suit everyone who is used to some of the pay and conditions offered by EK

No fishing intended

[Vorsicht]

Where/when were the conditions been made public?

[Believe Brother]

cyclops

could you please tell me at what point my EK salary becomes oz $14,000 per month, because without inventing some ficticious exchange rate, or being here around 14 years, I can't see it? (And that assumes we continue to get increments, which JH is adamant we are not entitled to, but are given out of good grace). And you said overtime is additional to that. Well, I'm afraid on the B fleet, we rarely see overtime (although we used to until we lost credit for sims, AD's, leave etc).

Since when did EK pay 100% of your children's school fees? They have never done that for me. And, if your kids are at JPS (money-grubbing Varkhi school), then the difference between what EK contributes and the Varkhi fees, would be more than enough to send my kids to a school every bit as good as JPS in oz (yep GN, one may pay tax in oz, but there are benefits to be had from it).

As for the accommodation, it is a lottery. Some is very good, some is tragic. But then again, look at the stress the residents of Saud Villas have been through recently, as the accommodation department seems to have drawn a line in the sand at 115K dits. Yes, MF resolved it for them, but for 12 months only. And If you want to see an enormous social problem in the making, go and have a look at silicon city villas some time - where 600+ pilots and families will have accommodation provided. Imagine leaving, say the open spaces of Bowral, or a nice queenslander near Breisbane river, to go and live there - mmmmmm.

I would never suggest that everything is bad about EK, as there are a lot of good things. However, sometimes the rose tinted glasses have to come off.

[cyclops camel]

BB,

Well okay let's bore and embarrass everybody with some maths. Here's my payments from last month.

Base Salary Dh 29510
Training Dh 5825
ERP Dh 2213
Overtime Dh 6200
Provident Dh 3500

TOTAL IN OZ $17275.

Ho, hum.

If you like I can divide the bonus by 12 for you and add the education allowance by 3.

Whichever way you do the maths, it sh1ts on Jet*.

[gj18457]

I'm with you Ernest.I would leave yesterday if I could.I dont believe that they wont give any allowances whilst on overnights.Their would have to some form of DTA.I think that the EK guys could provide them with everything from TRE's,Captains,F.O's,hosties,engineers you name it we have plenty of willing and able people who have had enough of the shabby mismanagement and low moral.Your kidding about the 14k a month cyclops.With rents going up 50% in the last 12 months your going to need it when they ask you to pay the difference on top of your allowance to the landlord.

[ima birdbrain]

Some more Plagiarism

My salary last month with EK



Base Salary Dh 29510
Overtime (no choice) Dh 6300
Exchange Rate Protection Dh 2213
Phone Allowance Dh 45
Utilities Allowance Dh 9625

Deduction Family Medical Insurance Dh 239
Deduction Profident Fund Dh 1480



Approx $16,600 OZ


Profident Fund is a real Fizzer with EK after 6 years only worth $60,000 US $. Big difference from the sales pitch that was thrown at us when we joined.

Australian Dollar 2.77750
....
Days off Aug = 9
Days off Sept = 9
Days off Oct =9

Looks good on paper BUT cost of living has gone through the roof here in Dubai. Company provide a Utilities allowance that does not keep up with the spiralling rental costs and utilities costs.

Further evidence of this being pilots asked to move from company accomadation or asked to pay the difference

Quality of living has changed due to the increase in work load and only being allocated minimum days off each month.

As Scooter's post mentions if your going to have a terrible lifestyle may as well be back home.

Im about ready to jump on my bike and all though not ready to leave EK just yet like many others I am looking , you would have to have your head firmly entrenched in the sand if you were not....

[Calligula]

GJ.

Ask the JQ aust guys / girls in both the flight deck and cabin how they are being treated by Joyce and you will understand the definition of 'low morale'.

There will be no, I repeat no, allowances or DTA. Leave will be assigned, there will be no roster choice and no base choices.

I am not saying dont come home, all I am saying is make sure it is an informed decision.

160 K PA. No allowances.

tax = 60K (from ATO website).

So 100K div by 12 = 8,300 aust pm

No seniority deals, AWA\'s (under the new IR legislation)

Work 20-21 days p/m.

DEC's, no upgrades and pay for all endorsements and training


Enjoy !!

[Escape_Slide]

An agency from Melbourne approached me to work for a new start up based in Melbourne. Typical of these agencies they won't let the cat out of the bag until you are sitting in front of them.

From what I can gather it wasn't Jetstar - well it didn't sound like Jetstar anyway as they it was a fairly new international operation with a domestic associate. Probably Virgin.

Even so it seems our days are numbered friends. What appears like good pay no longer isn't and I am now struggling to keep my marriage because of the continual contract work outside OZ. And guess who's back at Jetstar. 1989 here we go again. I have seriously thought about starting a business in buying and selling franchises than to put up with these screwballs that want to keep screwing our wages lower and lower while they line their pockets.

[gj18457]

Compared to how hard and how many hours we fly at EK the amount of days off is no different.I would only join as a DEC and am am endorsed on both brands that they are considering.I know they would screw you but at least you have some IR legislation protection.Calligula you obviously haven't read many of the Middle East threads to comment about our appreciation of what constitutes low moral.Dont worry about us making informed decisions alot of us have been around for a while.

[Believe Brother]

CC, thanks for the answer. It is as I suspected. You are a captain who has been here roughly 6 years, so your salary is 29,510/mth. At 2.78, that is oz 10,615, NOT oz 14,000. The erp will disappear in around 2.5 years if the AUD remains roughly where it is. And remember, lots of our colleagues are not receiving erp at present. You are a trainer, and hence you get the 5,825, but that is an additional allowance. And you have done 15.5 hours of overtime, something the B blokes aren't doing (at present anyway), giving another 6,200. (I'm also guessing there probably weren't a lot of days off, free of jet lag, after that lot). As for the education allowance, you are not getting 100% coverage, and I maintain you can get equally as good schooling in oz for the difference between the EK allowance, and the Varkhi fees. The profit share has been good, but it is profit share, not a bonus, and the rulers pretty much decide what they allow us to have. As for the provident fund, you are getting 12%, and in oz super is paid at 9%. However, in the last 7 years, my oz super has doubled, giving an effective return of 10%/annum. The A and B funds here have not even come close.

What I do agree with is that flying aeroplanes in oz has become a joke, and any form of Jet* is not the answer. Supply and demand, and there is still an enormous supply down there. Solution is to stay put until the s*** bucket overflows, then try something different. As I said, there are still lots of good things in EK as well.

[Calligula]

GJ.

Not trying to give you a rise, I understand from friends how bad things are for you guys over there.

As far as IR legislation goes, ours has just been thrown out thw window by the howards govt.

The comment was made that waiting for supply and demand to be more in the pilots favour would be a good thing.

This is good advice

[Metroboy]

Guys, if you are thinking of leaving the desert and coming home, ozjet may be a better option. They have just had their AOC approved, and Stoddart appears to have deep pockets.

The deal is not great, but stacks up well compared to Jetstar International. A flat 120K for a captain to fly 737-200 domestically, with no up front endorsement payment (3 year bond). And a DTA payment of $75 per overnight. Home a decent amount, so some semblance of family life.

J* will require you to pay for your endorsement, and then offer 160K with no allowances. On your overnights you will burn a huge amount of after tax cash out of your own pocket. If as indicated they start flying to Japan, Europe and the States, imagine how much it will cost you. And if Joyce has his way you will be overseas more often than not. There will be no family life. I would avoid this like the plague.

All things considered, the gap between the two is not that great. Ozjet are desparate for pilots, so it may be worthwhile to head there and wait until Joyce offers a reasonable package before jumping ship.

http://www.ozjet.com.au/employment/pilot1.aspx and click on employment terms and conditions for the package.

Food for thought...

[BusyB]

Lets not forget that Stoddart still hasn't paid the aircrew and other staff from his UK operation that he pretended to shutdown. Do a search before you work for him.

[Icebreaker]

You are kidding aren't you Metroboy?

Give up a nice 777 or bus to fly an ol'shi*ta -200 for $120 K (less tax), working for a startup about to face some very strong players? Insane!

I think I'll take the extra 40K and fly a new bus, and I know for sure they will pay some overnight allowances (tax free).

:confused:

[Calligula]

Icebreaker.

Just interested in how you know "for sure" that allowances will be paid. QF mainline is doing everything in its power to get rid of allowances. Also the ATO taxes allowances on all crew that are paid in Australia (if thats the way it goes)

I would be astonished if JQ int paid more

Additionally, JQ international will be crewed from outside JQ aust and QF mainline.

Latest is that Joyce is looking to have pilot / crew basings offshore (maybe Sin - he has been up there three times in the last fortnight) to save on payroll tax ect.

Also to help with depreciation of a/c ect


Good luck

[BusyB]

Stoddart has once again declared IAL insolvent and laid all staff off. Gosh, I'd really want to work for him!!

[Escape_Slide]

I think Ozjet are trying as many good folk do when they want to start a business but, as I said, I couldn't accept a position from them because I was not able to see far enough ahead in their plans.

But when you do read about them in the UK you gotta stop and think there is something not right. Anyway time will tell.

[Capt Basil Brush]

The ATO does NOT tax allowances that are associated with overnights. DTA for day trips is taxed.

Escape Slide, J* are about to start A320 International Ops next month I think, with crew to be based in Christchurch.

BB

[Metro man]

No need to worry about our meal allowances being taxed here in Oz, the politicians claim a fortune every year in travel allowances as does the public service. They will ensure that this stays tax free.:)

[halas]

Todays Gulf News had an ad in the Appointments section.

Jetstar are recruiting pilots for their longhaul operations.

Suitably qualified Captains and First Officers are requested to apply.


Should be interesting to see how many leave Noteatingham to go home.

halas

[CAYNINE]

.....and they are paying ohhhh so much!!! NOT!

[Outta Heresoon]

Caynine
There comes a time (usually on account of cronic fatigue and no familly life) when money takes a backseat to lifestyle. There was a time when the people comming to the Middle East were doing so because of the huge increase in disposable income (and hense savings for retirement or whatever) and an increase in lifestyle. Over the past few years it has not kept up with one, and is now struggling with the other. Jeststar won't be for everyone, but you can bet that there will be enough that have had it with this region and leave. Whether they go to Jetstar or to one of the many others carriers only now starting to hire, it's going to give the operators here yet one more thing to complicate expansion plans. ...As if they don't have enough on their plates already!


For some, just getting out of the sandpit is necessary just to save a marriage or whatever. If it gets the family back to home turf, if even for a short while , untill something better comes along then there will be those who go. It's sad the demise of the industry that has taken place of late. Perhaps once again the cycle will swing back in our favour. I just hope it's soon...
The saying "What comes around goes around" usually applies to those companies with disregard for their employees.

[GreenOnGo]

I guess time will show whether money or lifestyle is gonna win. I'm looking forward to hearing about some positive changes for you guys.

[CK2]

Nothing against them guys who would be able to get that job. But I sure do hope that a lot of them actually do leave. For two reasons: Hopefully the ones that moan the most will have a chance to finally show what they're up to and capable of. And secondly that the number of guys going will increase the pressure on EK to do something about the whole package.
The thing is that I see neither happening - as usual :(
Probably those will hit the road that are nice to fly with, and who are straight and normal guys. Nobody wants those others anymore, they have their attitude engraved in their eyes meanwhile, in their posture, in their talk, everything. Once you do it too often it becomes your personality. Unfortunately.

[Wizofoz]

I'd take a very close look at the conditions of service at Jet* before joining it for "Lifestyle"!!!

[Elroy Jettson]

If by "lifestyle" you mean a dispo for 1000hrs, gauranteed days off in your slip port, and all expenses paid "by you" training, better get those applications in! :ok: Maybe think about getting a camper trailer to leave in the car park at work so the family get to see you more! Hang on, arent they going to charge staff for parking??? :confused:

Yes, the choices are clear, money and no lifestyle, or no money and no lifestyle. "Oh Manner from heaven!" :}

[Can't think of a name]

JETSTAR!?!?!?!
You must be kidding! The Jetstar boys and girls recently signed off on a pilot deal that has destroyed Australian Aviation, from a professional pilot's career perspective. If anybody thinks that the Jetstar offer provides EITHER money or lifestyle, then PLEASE explain it to me?!
Yes, they probably will get a few people for a variety of reasons, but to consider a A330 Airline Captain as worth the same money as a Sydney Metro Train driver is a pretty good indication of where Qantas management hold the credibility of their pilots. The Qantas bosses tried it on (probably giggling behind their hands saying "nobody will be stupid enough to sign off on this, but hey, lets try it and see!") and sure enough..........
I don't blame the pilots for taking whatever position they signed off on, but the basic pilot quality of "doing whatever it takes to get my ass in a bigger shinier jet" has been , in this case especially, masterfully manipulated by the big Dick(son).
You've made your bed of nails guys and girls: I just hope you can eventually get comfortable laying on it.
All the best.....CTOAN

[propaganda]

I haven't seen too many longhaul command opportunties arising in OZ !!!!!;)
it could be worth a sniff ....even if it's short-term...you can always re join EK as a DEC on a higher salary !!!!!!!!!!! and you never know the long awaited OZ/NZ base might become a reality.:ok:

[CAYNINE]

ah yes the shades of green on the other side of the fence..... poisonous weeds maybe???

There is nothing good about the jetstar package, Dixon will continue to reek havoc on all and sundry in Oz till there is absolutely no incentive whatsoever to take up flying as a career.

Vale Oz/NZ aviation.

[And Then]

Something is rotten in Oz.

Why are they enticing pilots back from the Middle East, UK & Hong Kong to fly for Jetstar?

Testing the water to check demand to further lower conditions or, ominously, is Dixon going to break the back of contemporary QF pilots with a swag of experienced, homesick expats and the new industrial laws? There has been some concern of Jetstar standards, but not enouugh to warrant overt advertising in papers around the globe.

[CAYNINE]

Maybe there's a shortage of homegrown boys and girls that don't have rich daddies to fork out the 33k for the endorsement.

So.... lets get all those disgruntled Ozzie lads back from the middle east.... after all Dixon probably has Pprune in his favourites and sees just how much crud gets posted about the "virtual" shocking conditions that are forced upon the EK crews.

[Scooter Rassmussin]

Petrol is now $1.50 a litre going ,to $2 supposedly, so bring plenty of Jerry cans back from the ME.................

[max AB]

Do I understand this correctly... The J* guys negotiated a package to fly the 330 long haul and now non or not many of them actually want to do it so J* are searching overseas? Must be a great deal......

[fatigueflyer]

Anyone out there kind enough to give details of Jetstar payscale or are we just going to continue moaning & whinging about their conditions too. With the situation here in the ME, I agree that if things are not so great here so what's the problem with toughing it out back in Oz. Can it be any worse than being fatigued all the time, jetlagged, flying flat out, no lifestyle with roster, pay getting behind each year with rising inflation, housing fees, rent and cost of living. To top it off, the driving here gets worse everyday and we are playing russian roulette everyday with our family's lives on the roads cos' some of them don't give a toss about human life! I know that some out there will say Jetstar will work you hard but if you are already doing that here what is there to lose??? If you fear losing your job security here in the ME over going home to Oz, then I think it's a silly reason to stay.....focus on the BIG PICTURE!!!

[donpizmeov]

Highlights of the Jet* EBA that I saw were as follows:
1. Capt Pay $140000. Up to $160000 in a few years.
2. Note stating that DECs hired now, will head back to the right hand seat in three years, if a FO with seniority needs a command.
3. Note stating that you will get min of 9 days off per month, and hopefully they will be at your home base and not down route.
4. Allowances when down route seem pretty low
5. Costs of upgrade, transitions etc born by the pilot.

Good luck.

Don

[fatigueflyer]

Thanks for the info guys. Maybe I will stay at EK for the time being. Don't believe in buying your own rating just on principal alone. Now I really know what a low cost airline means......they remain low cost and you pay for it! Anyway I will keep discovering for now?!?!

[Dan Winterland]

Low cost doesn't really mean low cost. Well, maybe for the first ten passengers who book on line a year in advance.

As a business model, low cost really means low overheads with consequently larger profits. And we as pilots are overheads!

[Qatari515]

Just found this in my mailbox...

"Qantas Airways’ low-cost subsidiary Jetstar has persuaded its pilots to let it recruit direct-entry captains for Airbus A330s in support of its planned expansion into the long-haul market.

A Jetstar spokesman in Melbourne says a new enterprise agreement with its pilot workforce of 250 went into effect earlier this month and it allows Jetstar to employ direct-entry captains and first officers for the planned widebody fleet. It had already been employing direct-entry pilots for its Airbus A320 fleet.

An ad in this week’s issue of ATI sister publication Flight International also shows the carrier is seeking to recruit first officers and captains for its A320s and A330s and possibly even for its 12 Boeing 787-8s which will be delivered from 2008.

The ad makes no mention of how many pilots the airline is looking to recruit and the carrier’s spokesman was unable to disclose this.

Jetstar currently operates services within Australia and to New Zealand and according to ATI’s sister product ACAS has 19 A320s and six Boeing 717s. The carrier has said repeatedly that it expects to completely phase out the 717s and by mid 2006 have 23 A320s.

New long-haul arm Jetstar International plans to launch operations in November using six A330s and by mid-2007 expects to have eight of the type. It will later transition to a 787 fleet.

Jetstar’s spokesman says the carrier plans to have some of its A320 pilots move onto the A330s and eventually the 787s. But because Jetstar International is undergoing such a huge expansion the carrier also needs to recruit direct-entry captains and first officers for the longer-haul aircraft, he says.

“The new enterprise agreement allows us to move pilots over to larger aircraft equipment [and] to bring in some expertise with regards to the A330s,” he adds.

Jetstar’s pilots last month voted “overwhelmingly” in favour of the enterprise agreement, says the spokesman, who adds that it took effect earlier this month when it was certified by Australia’s Industrial Relations Commission.

Source: Air Transport Intelligence news

[max autobrakes]

What's Charlie Q going to do with it's surplus of A330 pilots?

[Veruka Salt]

Max Autobrakes. .

The first 3 A380 Dugongs are to be crewed solely from the A330 fleet. That will absorb some of the excess pilot establishment. There are also a few 744 slots to be filled this training year. Most of the Airbus guys are relatively senior, so they should be able to bid successfully for those.

For those who remain on the A330, the short term effect will be a reduction in credit hrs flown per roster per pilot, with a corresponding decrease in pay. :*

Cheers,

Veruka Salt

[CAYNINE]

so the next time I sit on the deck for 8 hrs with some whinging pilot about how tough things are in the ME and in particular EK, I can now show them just what wonderful opportunities lay in wait for them should they choose to return to Oz....
All that lifestyle...., the endorsement, the 1000hs, the days off away from home, the tax, the rent, the medical bills, the dental, paying to send the kids to school, the $1.45lt price of fuel, the insurance......etc
Mate I'd be off to Oz like sh*t off a shovel!!!!! Not!
...and it's only going to get worse my friends.

[fatigueflyer]

Hey Caynine, maybe you should have a good look at EK's backyard before having a go at Oz. Maybe you have been caught up in all the wonders of Dubailand but if you can see through the sand storm, pollution, greed and rising costs of living then not all is well in the sand pit! Maybe you are one of those who cannot go anywhere and have to make good in the ME. In this case, best of luck as you will need it but life isn't so bad in Oz. No ar$e hole trying to kill you and your family on the roads everyday is reason enough to live there.

[UNOME]

Lot's of talk in Oz about EK aussies rushing back to join Jetstar.

If you have the education requirements and can pass the testing stage, you will be hit up around AUD10,000 if you are type rated A330 (company induction training??) or AUD30,000 if not.

Net income for Capts about AUD7000 per month, F/Os AUD 5000. (forget private schools)

After two years DE Capts will be demoted to F/O and there is currently 300 pilots ahead, who will qualify for command in two years therefore, about 5-8yrs to get back in the left seat.

So the question remains, why are so many of you rushing back?

[SecurID]

Life should be less about money and more about the important things like home and family. When I left home I thought that I would have a happy and successful life overseas. Well, it's been OK.

There is a story, or proverb if you like, about life overseas and it involves the issue of two buckets... Well, one of those buckets is now full and it isn't the money one!

Home is, and always will be, home. There are opportunities to come home now and, despite lower salaries, many of us have had enough here.

[ennui]

Something else to consider for those who may be tempted back to Oz for the new Ultra Low Cost Model.
For every 20 seniority positions within Jetstar, QF is reserving Seven (7) slots for their own people.
While at the moment they are attempting to lure (force?) some mainline pilots (mostly FO's) with the promise of DEC and the right of return to mainline in 3 years, one wonders as to the long term strategic plans by the QF Junta to lower the terms and conditions for QF drivers as a whole.
Be very aware that even a DEC may find themselves back in the RHS after a time and then possibly a couple of hundred slots away from command again with a forced mainline transition.
Check out Dunnanda & Godzone for more.
The grass is just as brown and sandy on the other side of the fence!

[Outta Heresoon]

Again I think the main plot has been lost to some posters here. It's not like Jetstar is offering a terrific package with all the bells and whistles to compete with EK or any other Gulf carrier. There comes a time when one has simply had enough, and must go "home". Since we are pilots we get a job with an airline flying airplanes. It's the other aspects that you look at positively, not the job.

The large salary/benefit/t&c's "packages" and promise of working for an "up and comming" "world class airline" that were once the main draw to the ME are no longer. At least not good enough to attract large numbers of good pilots for a long term career here.

All the best to those who make the move to get closer to "Home".

[dunerider]

I for one have had enough of the sandpit and I have an interview shortly.Even after 3 years if I'm back in the RHS its not such a big deal.A lot of us have been to hell and back so a few years as a F.O is not such a big deal.Most of us would be happy to fly domestic anyway and leave the longhaul for the young superstars.I know of 20 Ek guys who have been given interviews although we have to all pass so who knows the final numbers.Heard alot of Dragonair have applied so the competition will be quite stiff.Lets see the final washup.

[UNOME]

According to HR, it will be a lot closer to two years before you get bumped to the RHS, plus there will be around 300 guys ahead of you for the upgrade.

All this and AUD5000 net per month. Lifestyle move or financial/ career disaster?:ugh:

I copped a razz on another forum for asking about this. No malice intended. Just would like to know if it is really true that 700 expats have applied and hence been advised of interviews??

On a positive note, it has pushed EK to fast track the new bases outside Dubai. The set up at Tulla in Melbourne is complete:ok:

[ennui]

QUOTE=Mud Skipper]Vorsicht,
Latest news is very few, ie not enough, O/S Australian A330 crews are interested. A few desperate Emirates drivers and that’s it. 10 year Dragon A330 Captain was told he would have to come as an F/O, pay for J* endorsement, 3 years cr@p pay then pay for 787 F/O endorsement if he was kept on. Believe he hung up before more of the deal was explained.
From what is being offered you could only say the whole O/S vacancy advertising exercise was a fishing expedition with no bait. The sole purpose was to further put the wind up J* & Qantas pilots so as to lower their expectations.
This could have indeed been successful with the latest rumour doing the office of some QF A330 F/O’s putting an offer to QF/J* to crew the aircraft as Captains on a deal not dissimilar, but slightly less, than AO conditions. J* pilots would take the right seat to build experience for the 787 operations when these pilots would return to mainline. Apparently, given the time limits now on J*management, this offer is a front runner and perhaps what the mechanics of these machinations have had planned all along.
All will be clear in a few months, may the shaftings continue. :}[/QUOTE]

[OBNO]

How about these conditions to further entice you home!

Cannot blame anyone for considering a DEC in their home country, but you will want to read the contract carefully before committing.

Any dead heading/ paxing will be in Economy Class.
Maintain your own set of Jeppesens.
No Home Transport provided.

Intention is for 10 days off per roster period (read- month), contract actually reads 10 days per 6 months! Good luck argueing that one in 18 months time. Days off in slip port can also be counted as rostered days off

Rates of pay $147,809
From first full pay period on or after 01Aug2007 $152,243
From first full pay after 30Nov2008 $160, 701
FO's will be on 60% of this rate, Cruise FO on 60% of FO's rate - don't expect to have too many drinking buddies down route - they won't afford it!
Note. This pay rate is for any Wide body aircraft Jetstar will operate. No more pay for B787 (or A380 if applicable!). Must also pay for any new endorsement.

Remember this is a new Low Cost Long Haul Carrier - expect the appropriate low cost conditions.

[kingoftheslipstream]

This is ugly sounding. Reminds me of a friend from back home who described the pilot fraternity (no gender bias intended ladies) as " a bunch of people who wear spiked track shoes to work and use each other for astro-turf".

We are doin' it to ourselves...

[propaganda]

UNOME, I don't think your prediction of a EK MEL base in the near future is correct..............AKL maybe !!!!!!!!!!!!!;)

[fatigueflyer]

Sounds more and more like Dubai construction firms. They employ you to help them get the A330 operation off the ground then demote you for your troubles. What do you think they will do with construction workers here in Dubai when they are no longer needed.....make out that they are absconding, hold onto their salary then deport them. Sound familiar? Thought we had it tough here but not much better in Oz unless you want to half you income and the rest. Bring on the 380!!!

[ernestkgann]

I'm not offering an opinion but if you have nothing to do on the 24-28th,

Jetstar are recruiting in Dubai.....................

Contact your mates for details. (email and phone numbers for all interested parties)

[Herbsnspices]

There is a whole team of airline semi-pros that will be out of a job soon in Abu Dhabi, Chairman all the way down to the tea boy, they will even throw in a VPC in the grave, a real one stop shop drama included morrocan style, if jetstar wants it of course!:E

[gj18457]

Is it only for Airbus drivers or can anyone come along?

[Wizofoz]

Anyone with $30 000AUD for the type rating (Or $10 000 if you already have one!!):ouch:

[fourplay]

Herbie,

What goss do you have?... Give it to us.

Is the broom coming to long awaited dirty little corner of EY ?

Thankfully my favourite pigs bum has been terminated out of the ops building
and the air smells so much cleaner now I have observed!

(Edit)... Sadly just found out the porker was only shuffled sideways... enjoy my posts piggy I know you love to sit on your fat ass all day reading this forum crying about the nasty true happenings the slaves write!

[Alphaprot]

I believe the J* package has been improved a bit to around 170K Aus, still not great but getting better. They have ambitious plans for expansion, including 787's going everywhere.

[ernestkgann]

The mail says anyone is welcome with airbus experience, however I got the letter and I don't have any.

[Herbsnspices]

"I knnow nossssing!"

Sargent Schultz

Just watch this space....

[Muttley Crew]

JetScar???? I dunno.....

Do they treat their pilots like Vice-Presidents of the company at JetScar?

Do you stay in 5-star hotels, on the "concierge" level (whatever the hell that is... :rolleyes: )?

I don't know if I could leave what I have here...

[2024bus]

Does anyone know what venue JetStar will be using for their Recruitment Roadshow between 24th - 28th? :cool:

If not for entertainment more than anything else considering some of the proposed Terms & Conditions of their EBA? Refer other Threads!

[hans_airbus]

I HOPE LOTS OF ASTRONAUTS WILL JOIN THEM.

PLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSS

FINGERS CROSSED

[Scooter Rassmussin]

There is many companies looking for pilots now, the smart ones with bases and high salary as well as possibly job share will do well.
Example:
Rumoured that some senior guys are going to take there Jetstar offer of employment to HR and tear it up infront of them if they can provide at the least initially commuting rosters and a plan for bases ib the next few years otherwise goodbye.......................:D

[fatbus]

HR and EK will say by by, thanks for coming out.

[Blair Brownnose]

Please sir,
What is the deal on offer and when/where are the presentations being held?
Blair

[Gillegan]

Rumoured that some senior guys are going to take there Jetstar offer of employment to HR and tear it up infront of them if they can provide at the least initially commuting rosters and a plan for bases ib the next few years otherwise goodbye.......................:D

It was rumoured that a few years ago, some pilots, deperate to commute from downunder went to the company and offerred to forgo all allowances and medical for the priviledge of going home. If true, I hope that it doesn't happen again as it would set a dangerous precedent for others who might aspire to going home someday.

[propaganda]

It was rumoured that a few years ago, some pilots, deperate to commute from downunder went to the company and offerred to forgo all allowances and medical for the priviledge of going home. If true, I hope that it doesn't happen again as it would set a dangerous precedent for others who might aspire to going home someday.
"Scooter Rassmussin" et al, I doubt EK will open an Aus / NZ base until things get really desperate....it won't be too long, I've heard recruitment is slowing down especially for DEC's. They'll have to offer similiar T&C's to other carriers commutable rosters or bases. Jetstar will try and take advantage of P***ed off Airbus drivers desperate to return home...hence their substandard T&C's.
The Sands of time are shifting in the Gulf.:ok:

[145qrh]

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.


Courtesy of Mr B.Dylan

[Vorsicht]

I have just heard that the first of the bus drivers has resigned to go to J*. Rumour has it that 30 jobs have been offered. Anyone got any facts.

[Scooter Rassmussin]

Emirates is prepared for this and has put a red box at flt ops for resignations , fill it up boys ,the more Captains that leave we can replace with new Captains on lower salary steps.
30 went for interview up to 20 captains and 10 f/os may leave , but thats about the maximum.
Realistically will probably be 2 f/os and maybe 12 captains.
Just need a quick trip back to Atlanta for a re-fill.

[captainjohndo]

Scooter, you have hit the nail on the head although you are too thick to get that pilots should be on the same side. Your turn will come as well when you are asked to lower your earnings, and get shafted by EK.

Remember though that the people who jump ship first are those that are capable and qualified, and most of those who stay behind are the dead wood who cannot find other jobs, or who hope that things will improve if more and more leave.

Emirates is all about replacing people with new ones at a lower cost. It is not about careers, and great new shiny airplanes. It is not a company that wants to grow together with its employees and share its success.

You can say that this is what is happening at home as well, but at least there you are home, with friends and family. Emirates cares about the bottom line, and not about honouring contracts etc.

It should be known by now to everyone that Emirates is not about a long term employment. Come and discover if you still believe that this is a place for you ....

Enough said

[145qrh]

How many did Ek get at the recruitment road shows, anyone know...I have heard a figure of 60-70 have been offered jobs:ugh:

It also appears that the people taken from upgrades on the 330 have been royally shafted...Excuse given is they couldn't release 340 pilots, but most of the peeps being transitioned to the dark side are ,yup you got it, 340 as well...Surprised? you shouldn't be.

[Vorsicht]

I have heard that there is a letter in our boxes from Ed explaining that DEC's are now going to be paid between 28 and 32kdhs.

Here we go again.

[BYMONEK]

Well, is a new Skipper not on dhs 28.5 a month now anyway? Not sure what a 15 year guy is on as the pay scales have vanished! Anyone knows where they've gone and why? :suspect:

[filejw]

Gee a raise and I haven't shown up yet..LOL:O

[Count Alucard]

Does anyone know how many EK pilots passed the interview with Jetstar and, more importantly, how many will take up the offer? :E

Just asking.......

[Scooter Rassmussin]

:mad: JETSTAR AND THE EK CONNECTION

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It appears that the approx 50 EK boys offered positions in Jetstar (at somewhat above current employee contracts) have made a joint counter offer to EK.

Serving their required notice (along with their offer of employment with Jetstar), they have offered to remain on Gilligans Is. "IF" EK agrees to;

A) Open Sydney (and other) bases.

B) Increase income by 20%

C) Plus some other stuff

Well done boys!

[chinawladi]

A "joint" proposition? Someone must be dreaming. This sounds too close to unionised behaviour. But thinking of it, I'd like to be the one.
ie. concerning C) Plus some other stuff:
- LHR basings
- No more subcontinent departures between 8pm and 6am
- Jump seat for at least close family

Alas, someone must be dreaming

[Vorsicht]

As much as i would love to believe that, my Bullsh*t detector has just gone full scale right.

[L1011]

Quite right Vors - sounds like a wind-up to me too.

As far as I can make out, the company's attitude is "Give us three months notice and Godspeed". Implication being, we can replace you with a (cheaper) DEC in that time.

Enough to make a man cynical :{

[Count Alucard]

So.....back to the original point of this post.....:rolleyes:

How many were offered the job?

How many will more than likely go?

:ugh:

[ruserious]

Enough to make a man cynical
Oops too late,
So what's your best guess then Mr Tristar, how many??

[L1011]

RU welcome back.

I'll take the bait. Best scientific wild ass guess is 20 offers of which 15 will take them. Mainly TRI/TRE that's what they seem to want.

And before you ask, no have not been offered a job yet, don't know if I really want it either.:confused:

[Quod Boy]

Its started today 6 resigs.ore to come.

Airbus UG will be back on.
QB

[sire]

This may sound like a dumb question to some, but what is a TRE/TRI?

[Dani]

TRE:
Type Rating Examiner. Instructor who can do type rating checks.

TRI:
Type Rating Instructor. One level below. Can do Line Checks and other instructions.

Both JAR-speak.

hth,
Dani

[max autobrakes]

Hey Veruka Salt what's charlie Q going to do with the excess of A330 pilots now the Dugong is delayed yet again?

[montencee]

Is it too early to rate the Jetstar recruitment drive as a moderate success? Seems to compare favourably with EKs recruiting roadshows in the US, UK and Oz (wasn't Oz cancelled due lack of interest?).

Names I've heard mentioned that are expected to appear on the RG list soon are all in the high increment 10-15 year seniority group.

Of course the bean counters/pen pushers will love this. Unloading a significant number of high earners in short order. Back in the 90s TCLARK proposed getting rid of all the 12+ year guys because they cost too much. The HFO (less spineless than the present incumbent) put him straight.

The further delay to the arrival of the 380 will give EK time to catch up on recruitment (South America still not exhausted as a source of non English speaking pilots).

Bottom line? No likely improvements to the EK package in the foreseeable future.

[sandpit]

Jeez, you know things are bad when people start talking about "The Smiling Assassin" with fond memories!:eek:

[violate]

At least he smiled, unlike TCAS

[Charlie Murdoch]

6 resignations in the last week.

Approximately 10 more to come over the next week or so.

[145qrh]

Well don't worry Mr ED will find another 16 DECS to cover..Good ol' Uncle Sam....

Talking of DECS wonder how many penciled in for the next few months will decide to stay at home....at least a few I'd wager...:)

[badhairday]

Anyone who's actually taken the plunge to JQ wonna send me a private msg? I've just been offered a job and sent a contract with a few surprises that weren't covered in the eba or interview.

[Rabbitwear]

Your still one lucky bastard to get out of the sandpit with a command intact....................:D

[ShockWave]

Why the mystery!
Why not just tell us all what you are prepared to do and accept in order to return to OZ.
I'm sorry guys but, the conditions and money that you are selling out for can only hurt us and your collegues back in Oz in the long run.
Anybody with hopes of overseas bases in EK can look forward to a lot less money and worse conditions than we have now. Cheers.
EK will look at the money and conditions and factor it into what we get paid now, and guess What? WE get less money as well!

How on earth did you get the idea that you could use those contracts to bargain with HR and EK? I'm leaving for a job that will pay me half the money and worse conditions but I'll stay if you pay me more!!! Get real, it's so crazy that it will never compute with them. AS far as your new collegues go in Qantas you are the next best thing along from a scab. Your actions in accepting such a contract has set back pay and conditions for Pilots in OZ dramatically.:ugh:

Good luck to you all, thanks and cheers.

Every man for himself blah blah blah :yuk:

[Rabbitwear]

Shockwave you have it all wrong,
A jetstar line Captain will get about 400,000 dhs salary , captain in EK gets about 336,000.
Jetstar in fact pay more........................

[ShockWave]

Well actually, if you include training allowance, accomodation and school fees Ek pay well over 600,000, depending how long you have been here. Factor in some over-time and bonus money and you're over 700,000.

when you deduct Tax from the 400,000 aed mentioned for Jet star you won't get much more than 270,000 aed.

To make the same money as we get in EK you would have to be paid something around 1,200,000 aed or about 900,000 aed with no kids. 49 cents in every dollar tax (over90k), plus gst, plus medicare, plus compulsory super contributions, is going to hurt bigtime.
I wouldn't do it even for the QF A330 money, which is also considerably less than what I'm being paid at the moment.
But don't let me spoil the party. When you have had enough of the Gulf I guess it just doesn't matter, you want to go, then good luck.

I think that after a few months the novelty of being back in OZ would not compensate for the pityfull conditions, lack of money and stress of working for such a bunch of miserable pr-cks.
I suppose you could always come back as a DEC if you don't slam to many doors on your way out.
Note:
All of the above guesstimates were based on actual pay statements, no calculators were used at any time and the exact accuracy can not be guaranteed.

[Rabbitwear]

I would think you are correct about the tax but the schooling in Dubai costs more even for the 10% we pay than a school in Australia.
You can rent a house in Aus say 4 bedroom for about 200-250 us a week pwr and water about 200us per month.
The gains in EK are not that great compared to Australia, maybe if you are from Europe.

[OBNO]

Rabbitwear

Afraid you won't get a 4 bedroom house in any reasonable suburb of Sydney/Melbourne for 200-300Us per week. Try doubling it.

[uplock]

Hey Shockwave You would have to be a mug paying full tax rate in Oz these days and with the recent changes in super laws combined with salary sacrifice if you chose to do, then its not as bad as you make out

I wish I was on 500,000 or 600,000 AED and I do not get any renumeration or benefits with no whipper snippers to claim for.

Think your being a little harsh on Rabbitwear as he is pretty close to the numbers for a line Captain with Emirates.

[ShockWave]

I didn't set out to be hard on anyone in particular, I just don't get it. On financial grounds alone you will not come anywhere near the disposable income of an EK Capt, even when you use his numbers.
I am not aware of the recent super changes, but that is still money that you can't use until you retire and then You can only use it as the government says, or you pay tax on that as well. If your wife works, or ever will then income splitting is only of minor benifit. If you ever intend to send your kids to private school you will be faced with a bill of between 10,000-15,000 OZ $ per kid. That is ofcourse after tax has come out of your salary so you are really paying around 20-24,000 $ per kid, and that won't leave enough disposable income left to invest in negative gearing property etc etc.
You really don't even need to do the math, just look at what the other airline there pays it's crews. You are only just being offered a QF F/O salary and that will psych you out eventually. (second class pilot and all that)

Go to Jetstar by all means, OZ is a great place but if you are doing it for financial reasons I think you will be terribly dissapointed.
Personnally I'd rather comute for Korean or some such airline, earn twice as much as JS are offering and you will proably spend more time at home.
Oh! and in case you are wondering how good the public school education is, just check out my spelling. Private is highly reccommended.

[Watchdog]

Shockwave,
excuse the pun, but you are right on the money with your figures. Speaking from personal experience, I can assure anybody that from a net financial position (and only a financial position) I'm upwards of 70% better off now than working for a LCC, based in a capital city in OZ. OZ is a great place to live for sure, but to get ahead these days on an OZ aviation wage, QF excepted, is a struggle. :\

[Visual Procedures]

$150 000 puts you in the top 2% of money earners in Australia. Don't get me wrong, it is definately a B (or C or D) scale when compared to QF.

The thing to think about is the conditions. You will be working your guts out. 10 hour days, 5 days per week. This is the reality of the CAO exemption. The whole idea of Jet Star is to lower the operating costs. So by definition you are a low paid pilot working maximum hours.

For those thinking that you will be returning to Australia to live the Australian life style... Think again. You won't have time to live the Australian life style because you will be at work all the time. Your wife and kids will be able to though... I just hope that they don't mind enjoying it without you.

The new conditions for Jet Star International also have a clause that allows the company to class 'lay overs' as days off. So yep, when JSI starts its international operations to leisure destinations 3 days per week, you'll have a 5 day trip, 3 days of that trip will be classed as 'days off', you'll come home then go again if not the next day then max 1 day off at home. It all about efficiency. You will be used to maximise efficiency.

If getting your wife and kids out of the desert is what you want, then go for it. But to me, $150 000 is not enough to work a 50 hr week at Jet Star, or have 5 nights per month in Australia at Jet Star International.

[dunerider]

You are wrong about the days off clause down route, and I doubt you will be able to work anywhere near maximum especially in the first year. They already work twice as hard as Jetstar ever will make them. You obviously have a false impression that the guys in Dubai like living there. Even if EK raised the money 30% you wouldn't stop the boys leaving. They have had enough.

[Visual Procedures]

Not 'wrong' exactly, just reading the agreement from a different perspective... The agreement can also be interpreted so that you only have a minimum of 9 days off at home over 6 roster periods. :eek:

What you think the intent of an agreement is, does not necessarily translate to the agreement you had in your mind. If it suits the Company they can enforce these agreements to the letter of the law. I have added the actual clause for everyone to read.

25.1.3 “You will be rostered free of duty at your Home Base for minimum of 9 designated days off in 6 roster periods and 10 rostered days off in 6 roster periods. The minimum number of days off in a roster period for a pilot will be notified to the pilot no later than before the end of the preceding period.”

Please also look at the following clause. (My emphasis)

25.4.5 “If you are at a layover port, or assigned temporary duty away from home base, you will be rostered for days free of duty as required. We will use our best endeavours to ensure that such days do not detract from your basic entitlement to days off at your home base, except with your consent or at your request. You will be rostered for any days off accumulated under this provision upon return to your home base or where this is not possible, in the next roster period.”

I know of an ex-deputy-chief pilot who would be salivating at these words should they be written into existing mainline certified agreements.

[ratpoison]

Visual

Mate, I think you better find an EK roster and then try and compare them with Jet*.
free of duty at your Home Base for minimum of 9 designated days off
Geez, where do I sign up ?? Be bloody great to have that. Lads on the Airbus are getting max 8-9 days off, Capt's that is. Trips to Oz and NZ over a 5 day block, impossible to get appropriate sleep patterns. Arrive in Dubai with two days off and then on ya bike to JFK. 24 hours in a comatosed state, back to Dubai. One F***ing day off, then an all nighter 13 hour duty running around to some sh*thole in Pakistan, India or Middle East. One day off, then to Europe. At this stage one has not even recovered from the original Oz,NZ trip. 24 hours off and back to Dubai. One and a half days off and then another trip. Top this with flying 3 different aircraft on short haul, long haul and ultra long haul and reaching 97 to 99 hours a month and family complaining that they have to live in a third world dive surrounded by monkies and goons and only see their husbands and fathers once a week. Yeah, what a great life. Send a Jet* contract to me any day. :zzz:

[Wizofoz]

Ratpoison,

Read it again dude!! It says:-

9 designated days off in 6 roster periods

That means 9 days every six months!!

Still so keen to sign?

[ratpoison]

Wizo,

Read it again dude!! It says:-
9 designated days off in 6 roster periods
It means a roster period is a month. 9 days off a month for six consecutive months and then 10 days off a month for the other 6 consecutive months.

9 days off in six months eh. That's 18 days off in Oz in a year. Sh*t, that means the Jet* boys dont have to pay Oz TAX. $150,000 a year TAX FREE.
Where do I sign up Wizo. ???

[Wizofoz]

RP,

That is not the interpretaion as I understand it. If that were so, why would there be the differention between "Designated" days off and "Rostered" days off? Why would they even mention the "Best endevours" re down route days off if days off at home were guarenteed?

I'm happy to be corrected by anyone with better inside knowledge, but if you're right RP, have you thought of applying?

[Vorsicht]

It is no different at EK. Days off downroute can be used to satisfy legal requirements i.e 1 day off in 7. But regardless of how many days off down route you have, you are still required to have a min of 7 days off at home in any given month and an average of 8 over a 3 month period.

I would wager that the J* deal turns out to be better than EK with regard to guaranteed days off at home.

[Visual Procedures]

Vorschit,

As far as Jet Star goes.. Yes. Definately more nights at home because they very rarely (some bases never) do overnights. Thats one of the concepts of the low cost model.

As far as Jet Star International goes.. How badly management decides to exploit the enormous loop holes in an atrociously written contract remains to be seen.

9 days off at Jet Star International.. 8 days off at EK.. :rolleyes: It six of one and half a dozen of the other really. Both outfits are (or will be) working their employees to the maximum they can. As I would also do if I was running a business.

The grass always appears greener.. If Jet Star is your next choice of employer because you are working too hard and you want to work less then thats one funky set of rose-coloured glasses you're wearing. No wonder the grass appears so green ;)

[Vorsicht]

VP

Mate I dont even fly a 330. I was just pointing out that ek is no different.

Calm down dude

[CAYNINE]

Vorschit,

Mate be careful not to wager the house on it ok!

Having experienced LCC ops in Oz before, the grass may be greener than the desert.....but still unpaletable. Ausralian Workplace Agreements (inividual),or, Enterprise Bargaining Agreements (Collective as a group) ie, the contract you sign, will be exploited as the tool to gain a lot more through manipulative interpretation than what you thought you signed up for, it's the Qantas way of dealing with employees.

Good luck (sincerly) to those going, I know you needed a change, have enjoyed flying with most of you. You at least will get to see Oz again in daylight from the air!!!:ok:

[Vorsicht]

Caynine

And the difference between that and EK is.................................?

[CAYNINE]

Just saying that at the moment the deal (not talking lifestyle in country) in EK is a long way ahead of LCC in OZ.... or are you comparing the condits in Bolivia to it.....

Have you seen, READ, and understood the EBA that was offered?

If yes, then take it if you think it's that good, if not then what you say is a little lost in the mists of the andes. Course we all know you don't really come from there hey!

[fatigueflyer]

To all those heading downunder, the very best for the future. It has been a pleasure to fly and have known you in the pit. I do envy you in many ways and wish I had the opportunity to join you. I was part of a new airline and it was exciting, frustrating, disorganised & tiring but never boring. Take care and keep us posted on life in Jetstar. :D

[Watchdog]

.....cause you are in for a shock! :eek:

[fatigueflyer]

Sorry Watchdog, you are out of line here. You either don't know what life is like in the sandpit, you were not qualified enough to gain direct entry to a left seat job on the A330 or just to even qualify at all. We are not here to judge what the future holds for the experienced EK captains joining Jetstar as they are all senior pilots and probably not too concerned with the salary anyway. As a senior pilot here at EK myself, not too many things shock us anymore so I think we are all over the shock treatment etc! Get a life Watchdog and let us see what these guys think, not what you believe will happen. :=

[Watchdog]

fatigue,
actually I have a very nice life thank you. Obviously I struck a nerve eh? A little bit nervous about the move are we? Let me just say...been there done that. You'll see :p

[fatigueflyer]

Watchdog, no I am not nervous as I am staying in the pit. Not a lot out there on offer I'm afraid. Since you have been there, done that....maybe you could enlighten us on some of the good and bad points. Remember money is not an issue with many of the guys going to Jetstar. Hope you are indeed having a nice life then :ok:

[GTR-34]

Its always nice to work in ones own country:) If money is no problem..why not? I would like to one day go back and work in my country if conditions are ok and i have lotsa money!!;) Enjoy guys!! Good luck! (its always better than the sandpit)

[fatigueflyer]

Ditto. Here's to God's own country. :)

[Watchdog]

fatigue,
have to agree there isn't much on offer there unless you are working for mainline. J* is a typical LCC for sure. Very much "DIY" from a Pilot's perspective. A good business for th QF group no doubt.
There is plenty to read on the Pprune D&G reporting points for those considering the move. :cool:

[ShockWave]

For those still undecided.
Keep in mind that JetStar int. is in part replacing the Qantas low cost Asian carrier that was based in Singapore.
Take a close look at the Qf route network and the frequency of ops around Asia then factor the days of work versus days off. You will definately, spend more time away from home than at home. If they use the days off away from home clause then it could be get nasty. Even Qf is bad enough, jetstar will be worse, unless they use the 330 on domestic routes as well.

Goodluck with it guys, hope it works out for you.

[6853]

Anyone know what the final no of pilots going to Jetstar from EK is. The lady doing the hiring apparently told some of our chaps that 20 had been hired.

[ShockWave]

There may have been 20 hired, but the last rumour was about 12 who accepted the offer and some of them still unsure. Most of these guys are simply fed up with the middle east and after recent events you can understand why. The only incentive for them is that they will be returning to Australia. In order to do that they are willing to aacept the crap that Jq are offering them. There are hundreds of very experienced Captains and F/os over here, many ex QF, Australian(TAA) and AN guys who would jump at the opportunity to return home if the terms and conditions were good. They are not so we will not. While Jq t&c s remain as they are they will only get the guys who are desperate to leave. All of these guys are very experienced and will be good for Jq but I can't help thinking that few of them will stick around if something better ever comes up.

[UNOME]

How long has "Wazza H" (on Airbus) been with EK and was he either an instructor or Checkee? Did he accept the JQ job?:confused:

[sec 3]

Aren't we all checkees being checked by the checkers?:E

[ernestkgann]

UNOME why do you want to know? You've been very negative on the J* front so I assume that it's not because you want to help him.

[gj18457]

I heard he has been employed, and will also be doing a fitness program for all the guys so they will be able to handle those long haul flights and parties in Honolulu.

[UNOME]

Ernest "Against the ponderous sky...herewith the young neophytes, endowed with large timepieces and matching appendages..."
Mr Gann was certainly gifted. :ok:

I simply met WH many yonks ago through airforce connections/piss-ups and wondered if it was one in the same.

Re; Jetstar, I think I give a balanced and realistic view.;)

Any quotes of mine on the subject that upset you can be discussed here, if you wish. :)

gj thanks, yep he "waz" always a big fella!:} BTW when did he join EK?

[ernestkgann]

I would say he is one and the same and discussion not required. All the best.

[UNOME]

No probs, oh and maybe you should decrease the temp in the 777 cockpit and not be so quick to assume that all pilot's are cruel assholes. ;)

[ernestkgann]

Thanks for the advice.