Airspace missing from Jeppesen charts in Northern Ireland

[Aussie Andy]

I am amazed at just how bad - and dangerous - Jeppesen's VFR charts are. I have just bought some to cover a trip to N.I. and have found that in and around the areas highlighted below dangerous mistakes have been allowed to mis-represent the base of controlled airspace, which could lead the unwary to inadvertently bust the Class D just SW of Belfast.
Details are discussed here: http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=21986 (saves me re-typing it all)... but I have been encouraged to cross-post this here on PPRuNe as apparently some Jepp staff are readers...
Here are the images I scanned in:
Jeppesen Chart:
http://static.flickr.com/52/131880938_6ca23f6681.jpg
CAA Chart (an old out of date one but serves to highlight the delta):
http://static.flickr.com/55/131880937_36756159b5.jpg
Interested to know what others think of this state of affairs... and I do hope that someone from Jeppesen takes an interest in this as I think it is absolutely abominable and now I will avoid buying their charts for other territories as I would not have been able to make the same sanity check myself if this had been e.g. a chart for Spain Italy say!
Andy :*

[IO540]

I've just looked in the Jeppesen Flitestar. I can load the mid-2005 edition of their electronic raster charts, this is basically a copy of their 1:500k VFR/GPS
charts, and this shows that bit of airspace as Class D from FL45 upwards. It doesn't show it particularly clearly but then the Jepp VFR charts are not the clearest of charts when it comes to working out which vertical extent label applies to which bit.

However the Jepp vector data (the base map data in Flitestar, and usually also the GPS data they supply to GPS makers) shows it incorrectly.

Looks like for 2006 they have "corrected" their 2005 VFR chart from their vector data and got it wrong.

Current (April 2006) Navbox shows it correctly too.

Very naughty, especially as so many use these charts for their uniformity throughout Europe, to avoid the various weird "ICAO" charts published by different countries.

[Aussie Andy]

Cheers IO - does that also explain the missing low-level Clas D overhead Ballynahinch etc. as well?

So from what you say I guess our Garmin GPS will be wrong as well when we get to that airspace. My friend and co-pilot Adrian i sbringing his Lowrance GPS; I guess its built on the same crap Jepp vector data!?

Anyway, forewarned is forearmed - glad I did my diligence, but left wondering what exactly I have paid Jeppesen for on this occasion... :mad:

Andy :ok:

[IO540]

I cannot see any way to post an image here without first uploading it to some website (perhaps my profile prevents it, etc) so I will email them to you and you can post them here :O

[Aussie Andy]

without first uploading it to some website you have to get an account (free) e.g. somewhere like flickr.com and then post them there with a link from here... anyway, I am happy to do it...

Andy

[Aussie Andy]

Here is IO540's message and images received via email:

Here are the two images from Flitestar. The first is from the mid-2005 VFR/GPS raster charts CD, and the 2nd is from the Flitestar base data.
The latter is clearly wrong.

First image - Jepp-VFR:
http://static.flickr.com/54/132352627_5ae65f34ce_o.gif

Second image - Jepp-base:
http://static.flickr.com/55/132352628_fdca7ab015_o.gif

Andy :ok:

[chevvron]

Surprised they don't show Langford Lodge; I thought the runway pattern there was so similar to Aldergove that mistakes might occur!!

[Aussie Andy]

For those that are interested, I have checked the AIP versus the current Jepp charts EG-3 and EG-4 and confirm that they are both missing the four following sections of airspace:

1) Ref. EGAC AD 2.17, within AIP AD 2-EGAC-1-6 here: http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aerodromes/302AC01.PDF

Belfast/City Control Area (CTA – 1) 542802N 0060613W - 543121N 0060219W - 542739N 0055306W - 542422N 0055701W - 542802N 0060613W, Class D from 1500' to 2000'. This is area is omitted.
Belfast/City Control Area (CTA – 2) 544431N 0054635W - 545014N 0053939W - 544632N 0053024W - 544048N 0053721W - 544431N 0054635W, Class D from 1500' to 2000'. This is area is omitted.
Belfast/City Control Area (CTA – 3) 542422N 0055701W - 544632N 0053024W - 544449N 0052608W - 542016N 0054647W - 542422N 0055701W, Class D from 2000 to 3500'. This is area is omitted.

2) Ref. AIP ENR 3-1 here: http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/enr/2030101.PDF

AWY L10 between BEL and IOM where it lies within the Strangford CTA has a base of 4500', Class D. This area is mis-represented as having a base of FL55 within P600.

Jeppesen, please note! (And yes I have sent an email but as yet no response...)

Andy :mad:

[IO540]

I wonder why this has not been detected before.

As I've said above, the error probably didn't exist on their 2005 VFR/GPS charts so it's only just come in, but how old are these charts? Few months?

It does suggest very low usage of this product. Jepp VFR charts come into their own for much of Europe but I do not know anybody based in the UK who uses them for the UK, because the CAA charts are so much better in every way (clarity, colours especially).

Low usage will mean errors won't be picked up.

OTOH, a very tiny % of pilots hang about on pilot forums, and if somebody else reported it, Jepp will probably not withdraw the chart from the shops. Nobody does that.

[chevvron]

Like I've said on other fora, Jepp and other 'private' info providers are not regulated or checked in any way; as they're not UK based, the CAA have no power to do so.
The only official info provider is the CAA, although NATS provide services such as AIS and MET on their behalf.

[IO540]

Not in reality Chevron, nobody is perfect. A computer might be perfect, but map production involves a lot of human steps and they make mistakes. Legal oversight makes not the slightest difference.

The CAA charts are full of mistakes; you are supposed to go to some CAA website and print them off... yeah, right, every UK PPL is going to do that. The CAA push out new charts once a year (a lot less often for further up norff) so a pilot can be flying with the errors for up to a year. At least Jepp publish the stuff in electronic form, updated on the 28-day AIRAC cycle. The CAA do sell the chart data to Memory Map but the updates are still only once a year.

[skydriller]

Hi All,

While we are on the subject of up to date charts, when are the new UK charts available? Im no longer in the UK to see one, and heard/read they are delayed this year due to upcoming airspace changes? How does this then relate to the jeppesen ones, are they updated periodicly when the airspace changes, or are they also updated once a year when the CAA ones come out?

And then for your GPS database....

Im asking because with just a handheld for VFR, seems a bit steep to get an update every month (or is it 2 weeks?) from jeppesen, but a once a year update with your chart seems a reasonable outlay to me.


Regards, SD..

PS. If anyone is interested, the 2006 French 1:500000 VFR charts should be available at the end of this month, but Ive not seen one as they havent arrived at our club yet.

[Aussie Andy]

The publication dates are listed here: http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?categoryid=64&pagetype=90&pageid=571

I already have this years half-mil Southern England & Wales chart. The reason I bought the Jepps though is that I don't have a 2005 half-mil Northern England & Northern Ireland chart, and my planned trip to N.I. is before this will be next published in May, so rather than fork out for the current CAA chart which will be redundant 2 weeks after my trip I thought a current Jepp chart would be a better idea: I was wrong..!

Andy :mad:

[rustle]

For those that are interested, I have checked the AIP versus the current Jepp charts EG-3 and EG-4 and confirm that they are both missing the four following sections of airspace:...

Jeppesen, please note! (And yes I have sent an email but as yet no response...)

Andy :mad:

Andy, you know you can MOR things like this to bring it to the regulator's attention... (That is why the MOR scheme exists)

If you can't find the requisite form or not sure how to fill it in then PM me.

Cheers

[Aussie Andy]

Thanks Russell - actually I didn't realise I could use MOR for this! Excellent - I will Google to find the form today...

Andy :)

[Aussie Andy]

Update: I have been contacted by a very helpful person in NATS (known to many on these forums) who is involved with the "NATS Infringement Group" which is looking at problems including those which may be caused by chart vendors. He has also encouraged me to file an MOR which apparently is appropriate for this sort of thing.

I think we are lucky to have some pro-active people such as this chap working within NATS on our behalf to improve safety. A far cry form the face-less public servant, eh!

Well done that man - you know who you are!

Andy :)

[Aussie Andy]

DublinPilot has pointed out there there is a nice clear chart showing this space available online here: http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/enr/26020103.PDF
Andy :)