JETSTAR RECRUITS IN THE AUSTRALIAN [Archive]

murgatroid

21st Apr 2006, 08:01

I understand that direct entry captains will actually be employed as F/O's and given "temporary" commands with the introduction of the A330 for up to three years.

I guess they then drop back to F/O. Would make you want to carefully think about chucking in an existing command to take up this offer.

Also hear the interest of current J* pilots in moving to J* Int is lackluster in the extreme. The question of days off overseas and being able to get overtime hours on the international fleet is the worry.

altocu

21st Apr 2006, 10:04

"Also hear the interest of current J* pilots in moving to J* Int is lackluster in the extreme. The question of days off overseas and being able to get overtime hours on the international fleet is the worry."

If that's true, makes you wonder why the EBA was voted up.

virgindriver

21st Apr 2006, 10:44

I guess they wanted to make sure qantas mainline didn't get a look-in.

NO NAMES!!

Woomera

captain_cranky

21st Apr 2006, 11:34

:ok:

Our little sawn off mate did a great job in management at CQ!!:E

Ditto!!!

Woomera

TurbTool

21st Apr 2006, 12:41

[QUOTE=altocu]"Also hear the interest of current J* pilots in moving to J* Int is lackluster in the extreme. The question of days off overseas and being able to get overtime hours on the international fleet is the worry."
2 things worthy of note. There is no J* vs J* Int. There is only one J*(in Aus that is) There is a narrow body fleet and a wide body fleet but only one Pilot Body.
Days off overseas are not an issue as the agreement provides for days off in home base, any days off overseas are in addition to the minimum in home base.
The truth is most of the J* pilots simply prefer to fly domestically(short haul) versus internationally (long haul) at this point in time.

Woomera

21st Apr 2006, 14:31

The next person who mentions an identifiable name in such a disgraceful manner will be banned

Ethereal Woomera

webber1

21st Apr 2006, 14:38

Ban first , ask questions later!

drshmoo

21st Apr 2006, 15:07

http://www.mediaweek.com.au/images/potw/710/jennifer_hawkins.jpgjennifer hawkins:} she is identifiable

Contract Con

21st Apr 2006, 21:16

Drshmoo,

That is the first post I have seen here with any value what so ever!

Mmmmmmmmmm Jennifer:\

Cheers,

Con:ok:

Blue-Footed Boobie

21st Apr 2006, 23:13

So who's Jennifer Hawkings then..? Obviously the babe in the photo.

At what stage in the Jet* recruitment process does she appear? The bit before the psyche test I immagine..

Blue Foot

speeeedy

22nd Apr 2006, 01:23

Sorry to divert the thread away from Ms Hawkins, but TurbTool has got it wrong regarding days off. He has correctly stated that days off OS will be in addition to the minimum days off at home, but what he has missed is the huge gotcha.
Read this clause:
25.1.3 “You will be rostered free of duty at your Home Base for minimum of 9 designated days off in 6 roster periods and 10 rostered days off in 6 roster periods. The minimum number of days off in a roster period for a pilot will be notified to the pilot no later than before the end of the preceding period.”
This says that you will get 9 (or 10) days off over 6 roster periods, that’s a long time, plenty of scope for days off OS.
If you still don’t believe me lets do something simple:
A roster period is a month, so lets replace the word “roster periods” with the word “months”,
So how does this read:
You will be rostered free of duty at your Home Base for minimum of 9 designated days off in 6 Months and 10 rostered days off in 6 Months.:eek: :suspect: :eek:
Enjoy all those days off at home boys and girls I'm afraid you were sold a pup, and this is only one of 12 very “questionable” clauses (all coincidentally can be interpreted in the companies favor) in that dirty little document, and remember this rewritten agreement covers narrow body as well, no one is safe!

Johhny Utah

22nd Apr 2006, 02:37

Given that QF mainline seem to have no qualms in re-interpreting various documents that were written in slightly vague terms, and picking & choosing what suits them (based upon their interpretation), the JetStar guys are going to have a pretty hard time soon.

Sure, we all know that the intention was for 9 days a month off at home for 6 roster periods, and 10 days a month off at home for 6 roster periods, but unfotunately that isn't EXACTLY how the document reads.

I say that unfortunately the guys have been sold a pup, and that nothing much good will come of it - perhaps except an interesting former JPC rep as the new Chief Pilot :yuk: (which is of course only good for one person - him!)

Ron & Edna Johns

22nd Apr 2006, 02:59

More specifically, the intention was 9 days off in EACH of 6 roster periods, and 10 days off in EACH of 6 other roster periods.

But that isn't what is in the contract. It isn't what they signed up to. Can you believe it??

I don't really think JetStar will actually insist on working to the precise letter of the contract in this respect (although you never know in extreme situations). What it does show, however, is the slap-dash way this whole thing was thrown together. It shows the industrial naiveity and inexperience of the JPC. And in the context of JetStar now having to ADVERTISE in the media for pilots, it just serves to highlight what a sad deal the JetStar pilots got conned into by their own JPC!

JetStar would not be advertising for crew if they they had pilots swamping them with resumes. On the contrary. Airbus pilots with the prerequiste experience are well aware of JetStar International and newspaper ads aren't needed to get them to apply if they want to. So the fact that the ads have been placed augers pretty badly for JetStar and JetStar International........

Perhaps we will see some individual contracts offered to a select few, above and beyond the EBA, to come back to Aus and JetStar....?? All completely legal and the rest of the pilots won't even be allowed know about it.

UNOME

22nd Apr 2006, 03:08

I just assumed that the ad covered for any future "discrimination" hiccups. Mmmmaaatttee(s):p

I also thought DE commands were voted against??:confused:

Metro man

22nd Apr 2006, 04:01

Prehaps we'll see Jetstar open days in London, Los Angeles, Vancouver etc, with applicants flown to Sydney for second interviews and a look around. They have advertised locally with little response to satisfy immigration requirements.

Once J* pilots start leaving for jobs in Asia and the Middle East management will have found out how little they can get away with paying and how much pilots are willing to put up with in order to live in Australia.

That is then the basis for conditions based on supply and demand. Once "how much less will they accept to live in BNE/SYD/MEL vs HKG/SIN/DBX" becomes know pay scales will be set accordingly. Unfortunately they are likely to be a fair bit lower than similar jobs overseas.:(

MIss Behaviour

22nd Apr 2006, 09:27

Individual contracts are a real furphy - it's merely another term for an inferior version of an EBA offering less money & worse conditions or a 'wolf in sheeps clothing'.

Firstly, why on earth would a company, aviation or otherwise, want to pay you more and give you better conditions? Thanks to Little Johnny & his 'worse choices' masquerading as industrial relations reform, a company can offer you what you may think is a better deal initially by dangling the carrot in the form of dollars as a sweetener, but before the ink is dry on your contract drop your salary or alter conditions leaving you worse off. You have of course agreed to this by signing the document.

Rule number 1: You are never better off under an AWA versus an EBA so hang on to the latter for dear life for as long as you can!

Secondly, do you really think any company wants hundreds of employees all on different AWA's? A human resources logistical nightmare if ever I heard it. They just want everyone on a blanket mickey mouse award where everyone's on less money & worse conditions but thinks they're on a good deal because it's an AWA.

Can be a bit like booking through Flight Centre or Virgin. You may not actually be getting the best deal but just assume you are because they are perceived to be the cheapest.

An recent example of how AWA's fail to deliver was seen with Victoria's Tenix Solutions, a company which amongst other things is used by the Victorian Police for outsourcing their fines recoveries to. The only thing employees could change with their AWA was the wording in a paragraph if it offended them for religious reasons. So much for getting a better deal!!! :* :*

cunninglinguist

22nd Apr 2006, 10:08

I think the biggest setback for Jet* recruiting is being made to do that :mad: QF garbage to get in.

knackeredII

22nd Apr 2006, 10:11

Ad also appearing today in Hong Kong's South China Morning Post!

Blue-Footed Boobie

22nd Apr 2006, 12:19

Cunninglinquist,

Well said.

What's the point of the HR bullshyte when all they want is another sucker prepared to pay them for the job?

At the end of the day it's the size of your wallet that matters, not whether you know 5 people, sink piss with the right management types, fly as if the Wright Brothers had you in mind etc etc.

The HR nonsense is just a way of keeping those people in a job and justifying their position.

Blue Foot

cunninglinguist

22nd Apr 2006, 14:14

.................and do they ( QF or Jet* ) end up with a better group of drivers having gone through all that crap ? speak to some of your mates in either outfit and the answer will be, I think not!!

Jet Jockey

22nd Apr 2006, 23:47

I think there is good chance of experienced a330 skippers coming on in individual contracts and getting a better deal than was negotiated by the eba. All confidential of course with a non disclosure agreement. Qantas management still has plenty of room from current Jetstar pay to that of Qantas 330 skippers. Somewhere in between for the right qualified individual is a real prospect!

Capt Basil Brush

23rd Apr 2006, 03:45

Unbelieveable!

These clowns vote in the worst deal in history by 70% in favour (the figure I heard) and now they dont even want to do the flying!

So, not only have they said F#%k you to all QF drivers, as pay back for whatever, they have screwed the whole Aus Aviation Industry forever as well - for something they dont even want to do.

Is that sort of logic in the phsyc test?

rescue 1

23rd Apr 2006, 05:22

The whole A330 thing is a strange outcome, that's for sure.

Vote YES for a deal, yet not take up the opportunity??!! Be great to hear from someone on the inside??

Ron & Edna Johns

23rd Apr 2006, 07:50

And..... out QF comes with a Flight Standing Order, stating that Jet* is needing Capts and F/Os, and seeking interest for suitably qualified QF drivers to go there. Oh, the deal is you have to take Leave Without Pay, of course, and go over under Memorandum of Understanding (MOU), which basically means Jet* pay and conditions. Funnily enough, the A330 requirements read like the resumes of existing QF A330 pilots....

So, let's see, right-o, take a 40% pay-cut and go to help Jet* Int start up? The guys over there at Jet* going to be killed by the stampede.... NOT.

Is this company totally disfunctional or what!!

btw, in fairness to the average Jet* line pilot, I don't think it's a case of him not wanting to do the flying, I think it's the company not wanting him to do it. After all, someone's gotta keep driving those A320's around Aus. He's been used as a pawn in all of this: there was implied pressure on him to vote up the EBA (vote "yes" or miss out on the flying), when all along the company seems to have intended getting new pilots from outside Jet* to fly the A330. Hmm, where else have we seen that sort of pressure recently, in the context of voting up EBA's?

Contract Con

23rd Apr 2006, 13:21

It seems gentlemen, you are forgetting Ms Hawkins.....

Cheers,

Con:ok:

UNOME

23rd Apr 2006, 16:31

Basil old cock:oh:

The chappies who formulated the EBA did not/ were not required to do stage 1. :}

Gentleman,

Do not believe the BS that no QF boys will not jump at the 330... pay cut or not. There are a few QF S/Os who made a giant leap to 320 Capt thanks to Jetstar and will now do a Superman to the 330.

Add to this, NO International experience and just a couple of hours as Capt on the 320. :ugh:

Welcome to the new age of Australian Aviation....or is it just history repeated?;)

Bazzamundi

23rd Apr 2006, 22:27

The S/O's who made the giant leap to A320 Captains were mainly people who were previously A320 Captains with significant amounts of experience on the type. As for international experience, didn't they get some of that while they were an S/O?

Ron & Edna Johns

23rd Apr 2006, 22:46

Yeah, well, those S/O's are going to have to go off and buy an A320/A330 differences course. $$$$$$$ . The Capt criteria specifically says A-THREE-THIRTY endorsed, plus other stuff (hours, international experience). Not many former AN, A330-endorsed, QF S/Os kicking around, I suspect. I could be wrong, but there won't be many.

Having said all that, I'd love to know what they mean by "and/or" in the criteria (ie, if you don't have an A330 endorsement, that's ok, we'll just look at your total hours??).

toolish

23rd Apr 2006, 22:49

Well lets just hope no one comes across from Qantas, what message will that send to management.

Rescue 1 sorry I can not answer that one I am still surprised how easily my colleagues can be fooled, but that is the majority decision what can you do???
Maybe just Maybe if no QF pilots come across and no Jetstar pilots want it and no one come from overseas perhaps they may offer a reasonable amount of money to do the job but I guess it is too much to hope that this big ugly cloud has a silver linning, as we all know how self serving most pilots seem to be

Jet Jockey

24th Apr 2006, 02:27

JQ management have put experience requirements for the 330 that rule out 90% of current pilots. The F/O requirements for the A330 F/Os are nearly the same as for an A320 command. Its not a tough choice for some.Get stuck as an F/O for 3 years when you have the experience for a A320 command. The irony of the whole story is the JPC pushed this eba to keep seniority and ensure continued expansion and rapid promotion prospects domestically which is far from happening at the moment. :ugh:

toolish

24th Apr 2006, 02:46

Rapid promotion was never going to happen, can everyone see the wool now??

UAL Furlough

24th Apr 2006, 10:03

The question has been asked as to why the Jetstar Pilots would vote the EBA in and then not want to fly it. It is simple. The guys at the top wanted to protect their seniority and the guys at the bottom wanted to rapidly upgrade to Captain.
If the guys at the top hadn't voted it in, the company would have simply advertised for pilots and all the ex Ansett guys in the 170-220 seniority would have simply jumped ship to Jetstar international and held the top 50 seniority numbers as Jetstar International expanded and Jetstar domestic quit growing. The result would have been exactly what the guys in Melbourne wanted, the experienced Ansett guys at the top. Although the EBA sucks, they have maintained their seniority and there will be another day.
I can't believe that everyone on this forum believes that what 200 pilots in far away Australia do will affect aviation in the world forever. There will be another day. If AIPA would simply give the Jetstar guys their due and be concerned for the whole group, this could all end quickly. Although the Qantas guys don't believe it, the Jetstar guys can actually get an aircraft from here to there as efficiently and safely as they can, and until they really believe that, they are going to continue to lose position. I believe that the first A-380 will have a star on the tail...
Just my simple thoughts.

JJ&MFMary

24th Apr 2006, 11:07

Sorry to disappoint UAL but the A380 slots have been advertised to mainline Capt's and F/O's

Who knows what will happen in the future though ?. No doubt 'rick with a silent p' and his mates will be beavering away with Oldmeadow to sink even lower

toolish

24th Apr 2006, 22:21

and with that attitude that is what will happen Mary, no one needs to swing a lump of 4be2 at you when your swinging it at yourself, do you get it yet.

Boyscout

25th Apr 2006, 02:32

Sounds like the 'attitude' is coming from you toolish. Still annoyed at all your mates signing off on the dodgy EBA I bet. Or is that jealousy far deeper?

Break Right

25th Apr 2006, 02:52

Boyscout
Or is that jealousy far deeper?
Are you Bl**dy kidding????
Absolute stupidity comes to mind why Pornstar would vote yes on this EBA.:mad:
They have absolutely wreck any chance of wages being what they should be.
Hopefully Pornstar international wont get the required numbers and a new payscale can be renegotiated!!! We ALL live in hope.:ok:

Pete Conrad

25th Apr 2006, 05:10

Has anyone else heard the one about EK considering offering a substantial pay rise to hang onto and entice guys? Not saying that EK is the place to work, but?

So here, we have one airline able to offer a figure close to what you should reasonably expect for the job given sacrifices etc....over here, we have J*. A totally naive bunch of scragging, short sighted dimwits that voted in an EBA all because they saw a shiny new jet, and wanted to stick it up the rear end of AIPA pilots. RH and the JPC, talk about legends of the fall......40% less fella's, great negotiating skills boys...and hey, when the time comes and you have been to Honolulu three times and it starts to lose the appeal and you get sick of flying that trashy product across the Pacific during the night, have a big think, and ask yourselves, was it really worth it?

Oh, and apart from management wrangles at the moment, word is that the trans Tasman operation has lost over 3 million bucks since December....if true, what a stroke of genius it was from the JPC to roll over their EBA after 12 months of operation and take the bait from TJ...just to crew two measly A320's across the Tasman...this is what we are dealing with boys, real thinkers, real dynamo's that are just so capable of strong and ethical pilot career decisions.

!

Wrektifly

25th Apr 2006, 08:49

Possibly correct Pete,
Word from a colleague in EK, that they might be considering a 20, possibly 25% payrise to attract experienced crew for their planned expansion.:ok:

cunninglinguist

25th Apr 2006, 09:01

" trashy product " ........................................
thats a bit harsh when the 787 has'nt even left the ground yet :}

ratpoison

25th Apr 2006, 11:07

Word from a colleague in EK, that they might be considering a 20, possibly 25% payrise to attract experienced crew for their planned expansion.
Ahhhh, wrong. !!! EK would rather park planes up against the fence than to do something to that extent. Never in their history, and never goin to be. They will prob start employing prop guys on 20-25 % less than current F/O's. That's how these :mad:heads operate.

captain_cranky

25th Apr 2006, 11:47

Rick!:eek:
Chris!:eek:
Whatever happened to no names?:sad:
10 thingies or something.:uhoh:

toolish

25th Apr 2006, 21:04

Boyscout,

Jealous-of what??

Annoyed- not at all the majority has spoken.

The attitude was simply trying to stop some from shooting thy feet, shouldn't bother should I, you seem to be enjoying yourself.

turbinejunkie

26th Apr 2006, 00:15

Opportunities Posted 25 Apr 06
Close date 25 May 06
LocationAustralia

Job DescriptionJETSTAR AUSTRALIA IS EXPANDING!

Jetstar is continuing to expand. With future growth opportunities planned for its Australian/New Zealand operations, the low fares airline will commence Long Haul international services by the end of 2006, with an initial route structure between Australia and the Asia/Pacific region.
This expansion will see Jetstar operate a fleet encompassing A320s, A330s and from late 2008 the new Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner.
Suitably qualified Captains and First Officers are invited to express their interest to become part of the Jetstar team by registering online at www.jetstar.com and selecting Work with Us.

FOR DETAILS VISIT jetstar.com
Jetstar Airways Pty Limited ABN 33 069 720 243.

Now I'll just sit back and watch the fur fly! :E

TJ:ok:

mppgf

26th Apr 2006, 08:26

Good onya Pete conrad,
Still stirring the pot with your ethical dialogue.It may come as a surprise to you but I don't think anyone at Jetstar gives a flying f@rk about aipa pilots when it comes making decisions on which way to vote on eba's and I don't think many of us really want to roger anybody as you so eloquently described (not that there is anything wrong with that).
When you dribble on "this is what we are dealing with boys" who on earth are you addressing ? and what the hell are you dealing with ?
When we Jetstar pilots find out that the eba we voted in is crap and that our job flying to Honolulu is not quite what we expected, then we will have to deal with it and I'm sure it will be no skin off your nose.It must be terrible going through life believing that everybody is out to get you and everybody elses actions are just to spite you (PARANOIA).How about changing your user name as I would think that your supposed namesake would turn in his grave listening to the nastiness and hatred you spew.I wouldn't call dragging a name like that through the mud as ethical.
Get some help champ especially if you are operating at the pointy end.:sad:

Dropt McGutz

26th Apr 2006, 09:57

I actually think that Pete's comments are quite valid although maybe he could have been a bit more diplomatic about it.

757manipulator

26th Apr 2006, 10:21

As has been mentioned before, JetStar are going to struggle mightily to attract candidates at the levels of of pay they are offering..mayby the odd guy who doesn't need or want the going rate, but I still cant see many guys wanting to shift to a high tax, low income operation.

Ratpoison..its already happening, Ive even got a pleading offer letter in my hand that shows an improvement of around 20% from the previous one, all if I want to go and work in the desert.

:ok:

Pete Conrad

26th Apr 2006, 19:12

mppgf - I think if you have a good read of what YOU wrote, not only is it a classic case of rapid fire crap spewing from a mouth, as you so eloquently put it, but you will find that you are the one who is eternally looking over your shoulder in paranoia champ. You may want to have a listen to yourself, you would be one of those guys that talks in a really high pitched voice too. Touch a raw nerve did it? Not hard to do with you guys, you have to live with the fruits of your labour now don't you?

Enjoy life looking over your shoulder buddy and for gods sake, loosen your jockstrap, britches or something man, you will do yourself an injury.

Condition lever

26th Apr 2006, 21:59

Pete,
Sounds like you should take your own advice.

Sandy Freckle

26th Apr 2006, 22:04

From mppgf:

When we Jetstar pilots find out that the eba we voted in is crap and that our job flying to Honolulu is not quite what we expected, then we will have to deal with it and I'm sure it will be no skin off your nose.

Foolish, foolish comments my friend. You really don't understand, do you?

YOUR EBA has set a new low standard for pay and conditions for ALL airline pilots in this country. Not just YOU. ALL PILOTS! So, yes, Pete will have "skin off his nose", as will all of the rest of us.

I'm still amazed that NONE of you guys saw past your own tiny little world when you voted for this EBA. You not only crapped in your own nest, but in everyone else's too.

And your idiotic comments prove it.