View Full Version : Midland A320 with possible gear problem at LHR
positionand hold
20th Apr 2006, 17:25
If I have the misfortune to encounter this, please can I have this crew flying and the same ATC team too. Very cool, no drama and thankfully no problem in the end.
cornwallis
20th Apr 2006, 21:18
Was this about 1700 ish BST this afternoon? I saw\it climbing westbound with the gear down.Lgciu prob?
positionand hold
20th Apr 2006, 21:38
Yes, that sounds about the right time.
Northern Hero
21st Apr 2006, 19:48
BD338 LHR-MME GMIDO.
Returned to LHR as the crew were unable to raise the gear.
Emergency landing was thankfully uneventful.
GBALU53
21st Apr 2006, 20:54
Best way not being able to retract than the other way, once down keep it down until investigated.
Well done to all cannot be easy at places like Heathrow at that time of day on a Friday, hope all who was held up understood:ok:
I'm sure there's a genuine reason, but since living near Heathrow for the last 2 years, I've seen over half a dozen A319/20/21's way out over Windsor way, climbing away from Heathrow with gear extended
And I mean heading out of sight with the gear still down. Almost seemed like one every week for a couple of months
BIGBAD
21st Apr 2006, 21:30
is this something 'major' - this happens everywhere - is it just because its in London its of interest :confused:
Hand Solo
21st Apr 2006, 21:41
I'm sure there's a genuine reason, but since living near Heathrow for the last 2 years, I've seen over half a dozen A319/20/21's way out over Windsor way, climbing away from Heathrow with gear extended
Its standard procedure when one of the brake tacheometers is u/s. The gear is left down for one minute after departure to allow it to stop spinning (the normal automatic brake application before retraction doesn't work) before you raise it. Flying around with the gear stuck down is actually no big deal unless the air/ground logic thinks you're still on the ground at which point it gets a bit more interesting with no AP, A/THR or FDs! Raw data flying practice when you least want it!
stagger
21st Apr 2006, 21:46
EGLD take a look at these threads...
Landing gear retraction times (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=186064)
777 gear still down after take off? (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=184031)
SNAFU...AGAIN
22nd Apr 2006, 11:17
it WAS very interesting!! Aircraft did think it was still on ground so all automatics lost for duration of flight...best practise EVER for the sim! ATC were fantastic and kept turns/frequency changes to minimum to help out. Thanks to all involved (if any of them ever read this, of course!)
Del Prado
22nd Apr 2006, 12:54
is this something 'major' - this happens everywhere - is it just because its in London its of interest
That may be, but it can be very useful to have these incidents discussed here.
I'd never considered that the aircraft logic might think it was still on the ground and what that might do to the flight deck workload.
In these days when there is practically no pilot/atc liason and certainly no feedback from these incidents to atc, I find pprune the only place I can pick up this information.
Many thanks to SNAFU AGAIN and HAND SOLO for taking the time to respond constructively.
it WAS very interesting!! Aircraft did think it was still on ground so all automatics lost for duration of flight...best practise EVER for the sim! ATC were fantastic and kept turns/frequency changes to minimum to help out. Thanks to all involved (if any of them ever read this, of course!)
Not a problem! Did give me a wake up when you wanted vectors after departure. :ok:
Gonzo
22nd Apr 2006, 15:36
Your licence says 'RAD', GT3, you got a chance to use it!!! ;)
Your licence says 'RAD', GT3, you got a chance to use it!!! ;)
It's good I did a radar course eh! Imagine if they stopped aerodrome only atco's from getting a radar rating at the college....oh wait that's what they have done!
cornwallis
22nd Apr 2006, 22:22
This is not the first time this has happened to an airbus.It is about time the manufacturer devised an alternate logic for the aircraft to think it is airborne and give you some autoflight.It might have been a different situation if LHR had been in LVP:}
cornwallis
22nd Apr 2006, 23:11
Asfkap I lost you after the third word!One of my companys '320s took off in lvp from the south of the uk and had a gear problem similiar to the midland and ended up in Manchester due to no afs!:}
fiftyfour
23rd Apr 2006, 18:46
The airbus needs to know what phase of flight it is in for most things to work as advertised (taxi, take-off to 1500ft, take-off after 1500 ft etc). All hell is let loose on the crew with myriad warnings (eg TOO LOW GEAR) when you select gear up and the plane knows it is airborne (ie not on the ground with weight on gear) but the computers think it is in another phase of flight (like cruise, approach, landing).
ExSimGuy
23rd Apr 2006, 19:04
I suppose you couldn't fit another switch (guarded of course) in-between all the "glassware" to say "Yes, we really ARE off the ground"?
"No AP, no AT" - I don't suppose that the 2 guys up front could "fly" the thing?
("Dinosaur speaking - best to ignore ;) )
Longchop
25th Apr 2006, 09:17
Do modern day airline pilots not have the ability to fly RAW DATA anymore??:E
acbus1
26th Apr 2006, 08:44
You may make that comment in jest, but the truth is less amusing. :\
Gary Lager
26th Apr 2006, 09:36
acbus1 - apparently they do, since there is no new smoking hole in W London as a result of the performance of these 'modern' pilots.
Most here know you are no fan of 'Midland' as a company, but casting aspersions on the flying abilities of their pilots is a new low, and even more inaccurate than the usual balls you come up with. Bravo!
mccdatabase
26th Apr 2006, 10:18
perhaps acbus1 is casting doubt on the abilities of all Airbus FBW pilots in which case he presumably includes himself in his statement