TIME FOR A PAX WEIGHT/BUILD LIMIT?

[STANDTO]

I have just returned from a flight on an A320, where I had opted a 3+1 to be seated with my wife and kids. they took the 3, I took the 1 by the aisle. Next to me were seated a couple in their seventies. she was by the window, he was next to me - so big that I spent the entire flight sat at 20 degrees bank to the aisle.

If the klaxon had gone off, they were screwed. If I had been at the window side of him, I would have asked to be moved, as he would have unreasonably impeded my escape.

I paid the same ticket price, and yet suffered discomfort through the flight. He was such a size that he couldn't get his table down to eat dinner.

Is there not a case for size limiting passengers like they do with that hand luggage guide frame they have a check-in? If you don't fit in this cage, or tip over 200 lbs on the scale, you can't fly in 31 inch pitch seats or less.

Also, why do airlines insist on carrying around all that extra weight of perfume, and crap gifts which nobody seems to buy. Given the option, I would rather benefit from the weight saving in the price of my ticket

Rant over

[Gordstar]

It is way over due, that fat people be deprived of certain liberties, due to their own selfishness.
Not only seating in aircraft but many other areas, obese people compromise others comfort because of their lack of consumption control.
Being seated in an aircraft, every passenger has paid for the right of comfort and this should not be compromised.
The sooner that airlines take this approach, the better for all.
My sympathies to anyone who has endured a flight with an obese (fat) person beside them.

[Crepello]

Not very PC Gordstar; chronic over-eaters generally have woes which apply to smokers, alcoholics, druggies and other comfort-seeking escapists. Which, let's be honest, applies to all of us to some extent - certainly to me on a Friday night. But I sympathise with your take.

I'm reminded of a post on here a while back. Someone quoted a survey whereby 85% of compaining pax said they were miffed at the obesity of the person next to them. The other 15% complained that... the inflight food portions were too small. Can't say I buy it, but I liked the story. :E

[TightSlot]

For consideration, I've always thought SouthWest handle the issue with commonsense, intelligence and consideration for all, as shown with their Customer of Size Q&A (http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html)

[manintheback]

Successive generations have got bigger, unfortunately seat width at the back hasnt. I seem to recall Virgin being sued and losing a case where a passenger suffered injury due to being unable to sit correctly in their seat next to an 'oversize' passenger.

[Bangkokeasy]

If I may weigh in here, at the risk of offending the gravitationally-challenged, I think this idea is way overdue. The issue is particularly noticeable when making the transition between my usual stamping ground of Asia, where the majority of travellers are of diminutive stature, to the USA, where they are not. I don't think we are doing anyone any favours by ignoring this matter, least of all those in need of an extra seat. I have a friend, who is of the "pie-shifting persuasion" and he positively dreads the prospect of flying in the smaller-cabined aircraft, such as ATRs. I am sure if the option to purchase an additional seat at a discount were available, he would not be offended and would jump at the chance (if he were not too fat to do so).

[PAXboy]

Thanks TS for the link to Southwest's policy statement. That has to be one of the finest bits of corporate writing I have ever seen. I vote for it to be made policy by all carriers. Europeans based carriers should be thinking VERY hard about introducing this as we are so rapidly catching up with the Americanos on size.

[Gordstar]

My thanks to Crepello for his/her comments, recieved, understood and partially agreed with.

Further comment which has occurred is good to see, and I encourage this discussion to a hopefully well considered aviation company policy rethink.

[STANDTO]

Does this mean I have had a good idea then?

Do I win five pounds?

Be sure to tell Astraeus and MyTravel as well, as that is who I had flown with - doubtless someone else suffered on the outward sector

[Gordstar]

Standto, if the airlines did something about the matter, I think you would indeed earn more than 5 pounds, due the savings they could make is fuel savings!

[PAXboy]

Yes, we do seem to pick up the very best ideas of the Americans. :ugh: At this rate, we'll soon start to support their plans to invade Iraq ...

[Memetic]

I agree, there have been threads on this before,
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=172608&page=3&highlight=memetic+weight

My suggestion was to weigh passengers and thier luggage at check in. Make it attactive by rebating "unused" allowance as frequent flyer miles - or carbon tax credits!

I'd also like to see have duty free ordering in the terminal with delivery at destination - which gives you something to collect while you wait for your luggage to show up and now I think about it agian would spread out the passengers so the flow through baggage claim and imigration could be smoother.

[FanPilot]

Hi,

Sorry, I don't normally visit this forum, but I was just passing and noticed two threads. This one and the other relating to leg room due to seat pitching.

Now, I am 6'4 and naturally long legs. I cannot do anything about it. My height is purely as nature intended. However, due to the natural growth, I am penalised if I want extra room for my legs. I am either not safe in the aircraft (in the case of emergency) or I have to pay extra. Unfortunately, I have absolutely no choice as to my height. I cannot do anything to become smaller. (an unfortunate side effect as well is that I am fairly heavy (230 pounds) but I look slim and can most certainly fit a seat with no spillover).

As for overweight people, I am in agreement. Overweight is not natural (in most cases). If someone needs a wider seat, then they should pay for it, or else not allowed to board. Overweight people DO have a choice. Pay more or become healthier.

I think a spillover guage would be a good idea.

[Bangkokeasy]

I can see the quest for a solution to this becoming more urgent as the years go on. In Asia, the younger generation is noticeably taller and wider than their parents and this has happened inside a generation. For today's teenagers growing up in Japan, Korea and some of the other Asian countries, there is often no difference in size between them and Europeans. In the USA, they seem to have exhausted vertical growth, in favour of girth.

That said, flying is becoming a demand-derived business, like shipping; the demand is there and will be satisfied one way or another.

Personally, I like the Southwest example, cited by our moderator. Wonderfully phrased in politically-correct language, far beyond my jaded ability.

But otherwise, I wonder if it is possible to design a seat which can be varied in width (and maybe even legroom for our friend FanPilot). If adjustment past a certain point were required, a charge could be made.

[daedalus]

I am horrified that some people think that all of those who are overweight are "Billy Bunters" who constantly scoff cream buns.
It is simply not true. I am obese by the medical definition. I eat two meals a day, not three. I never snack. I eat no junk food. I never take dessert. I swim and walk whenever I can. I have not had a chocolate since Christmas.
I know many people (and hate them) who eat far more than I do and can still hide behind a lamp-post. It's a question of body type and metabolism in many cases and any discrimination would be quite unfair to those in my situation.:{

[daedalus]

Having said the above, I have to admit that when visiting the USA I am as a sylph-like gazelle in comparison to the hippopotami I see wandering about, this especially so in Disneyworld Florida, where I have never seen such huge herds of grazing people.

[firemac]

I agree that it's not pleasant sitting next to overly-large or unpleasantly aromatic folk for any length of time. The weight thing I can accept is sometimes caused by factors outside the person's control but I cannot abide the b*gg*rs who can't be bothered with basic personal hygiene - the latter should not be allowed to board!
It does seem perverse however that despite documented scientific proof that the human race is getting larger (& I don't mean obesity but physiological/genetic generational growth), airlines insist on cramming in more seats & demanding ever smaller a/c. I can siympathise with their need to make money but it's getting beyond a joke. Fortunately I am able to travel busi class on LH but the many European SH's I do are becoming increasingly unpleasant as the result of the attempts at miniaturisation by some carriers. I particularly cannot stand Embraer 145's which, for anyone over 5'6" and/or 11 stone, are a pain in the neck ( and back, ass, legs, shoulders, etc.). Throw in the current inclination for folks to take all their earthly possessions on as hand baggage & the flight becomes a real penance. Mind you the 146 ain't much better.
If the carriers have to increase prices to provide a civilised service then so be it. Sorry to sound harsh but air travel isn't a privilege, no matter how many chavs think it should be!

[Led Zep]

The news article highlighting the Virgin Atlantic case brought some incredible things to light (for me):

1. Seems America has another "association" - National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance. :ooh:
2. This association has taken it upon themselves to stop "discrimination" against fat people by the airlines! :yuk:

Where does it end?!
Honestly, I'm sorry for the few folk who have no control over their weight due to a medical condition, but the chavs who chow down on Maccas 24/7 need to have their stomachs stapled. Either that, or eat properly in the first place. An airliner toilet is cosy at the best of times, but I cannot imagine using one if I weighed 120kg+, let alone trying to get into or out of seat D/E in a 2-4-2 cattle class. :uhoh:

[dwshimoda]

One thing they could do is calculate the total weight of the PAX plus their baggage. For example, I was 3Kg over weight (20Kg allowance) checking in for a TCX flight last September. The check-in staff pointed it out, but let me off saying I may get charged on the way back. The two people behind me were almost obese - as a guess I would say he was about 3 stone heavier than me, and she was probably 1 stone heavier. That's about 25Kg in total more than my entire suitcase!

So if you're a larger person, you either take less, or pay more - after all you are using up more space and more fuel.

[BaronChotzinoff]

Couldn't agree more, dwshimoda.

Interesting that in Germany doorframes and train seats, among other things, are super-sized compared to the UK where I live - you feel you are wandering among a nation of giants. But doesn't apply to planes - least of all Lufthansa,

[daedalus]

Ok lets discriminate against oversized pax - provided that it's done for those who are too big in length as well as in width!
After all, i have been prevented from reclining my seat by pax behind whose legs are too long. They should also be obliged to buy two seats or upgrade.
Many "fat" people are simply too short relative to their weight.
The Netherlands has the tallest population in the world and house door heights have been adjusted accordingly. Do you think this is taken into acount by their national carrier KLM?
Fat chance!:rolleyes:

[derekvader]

I definitely think that the permitted carriage weight should be passenger+baggage, not just baggage. It's ludicrous to charge someone a small fortune for having a few extra kg in their luggage but do nothing about passengers carrying an extra 30kg about their person.

But no Euro airline is brave enough to make the first move :(

[daedalus]

Dear Derekvader,
Sorry, can´t agree. Luggage is a matter of choice. One´s weight is most often not. When my family spent a month last year in the far east we each took one small suitcase as cabin baggage. Nothing more. When you look at the number of travellers who appear to take everything including the kitchen sink, you wonder what the hell they need it all for!
There is a considerable difference between genetics, which largely determines your adult weight and sheer greed/idiocy which determines what you drag with you in terms of baggage.
Again, fine if you want to charge "big" passengers more, but only if it applies to "big" in any direction!

[derekvader]

Dear Derekvader,
Sorry, can´t agree. Luggage is a matter of choice. One´s weight is most often not.

Nonsense. I used to be huge. I got my act together and these days I am thin. In all but a very small number of complex medical or very serious depression cases, anyone can fix their weight.

[Pax Vobiscum]

I think both D's have a point. Someone who's 6 inches taller than me may well be heavier, but 'thinner' if you see what I mean. OTOH everyone can control their own weight to a great extent - as a grizzled old GP once put it to me (in the pre-PC days) "no-one ever came out of Belsen overweight".

[BEagle]

Having had the misfortune to arrive back at BHX on LH at the same time as some holiday flight from Corfu on Friday night, I was treated to the joy of the 20 minute T2 immigration queue...

But what struck me most (apart from the skimpy top worn by one very attractive young lady!) was the very high proportion of fat pensioners in track suits who were waddling up and down the labyrinthine maze to the 3 (out of 9) passport desks. It is not just fat kids who are becoming the problem - it extends across all generations.

I cannot imagine how unpleasant it must be to be crushed into the minimal seat pitches on such flights with some of those porkers on board.

[AUTOGLIDE]

Have also experienced this, seriously squashed whilst in a window seat from ORD to LAX, whilst huge sweaty gentleman concerned ate three in-flight meals, and then spent the rest of the flight picking his nose and wiping it on the seat cushion. I can map from memory the whole landscape of the USA along this route :) . I just don't see why others should have to put up with this. It's another reason I'd rather have dentristy performed than get on a flight. As for tall people though, that's just the way they are, not their fault.??

[StarWinder]

I am wondering whether it might not be possible to incorporate a type of BO meter into the current walk-through metal detectors. Travelling particularly in South Asia, it is absolutely disgusting to find pax being allowed on board who literally stink out the entire aircraft. There must be a scientific and objective way to set a limit and deny boarding to people who are beyond.:ok:

[TSR2]

Perhaps Age brings less mobility.

Perhaps Less mobility brings difficulties controlling weight.

Perhaps Weight is impacted more by less mobility through age, than diet.

Perhaps Less mobility produces walking difficulties.

Perhaps Fat Pensioners have less dress sense than Thin Pensioners.

Perhaps Fat Pensioners should be banned from travelling by air.

Perhaps All pensioners should remain on board the aircraft until other passengers have cleared the airport.

Perhaps 'Pensioners Only' flights should be considered.

Perhaps Holiday flights with pensioners on board should use a different terminal to scheduled flights.

Certainly Far greater tolerance, consideration and respect towards Senior Citizens is blatently obvious.

[EI-CFC]

Now, there is NO way that a check-in agent would have allocated such seats to such overweight people

Oh yes, they most certainly have done in the past.

[FlyingConsultant]

I just want to second that the SWA policy is one of the best policies ever written. I actually bookmarked it.
Especially "encroachment", "extended" and "fluctuate"

Customers who traveled without full access to the seat purchased due to encroachment by a large seatmate whose body extended into the neighboring seat.


Because size can fluctuate, we are unable to give blanket authorization.

made me take my hat off to the writer

[GANNET FAN]

[quote=FanPilot]Hi,


Now, I am 6'4 and naturally long legs. I cannot do anything about it. My height is purely as nature intended. However, due to the natural growth, I am penalised if I want extra room for my legs. I am either not safe in the aircraft (in the case of emergency) or I have to pay extra. Unfortunately, I have absolutely no choice as to my height. I cannot do anything to become smaller. (an unfortunate side effect as well is that I am fairly heavy (230 pounds) but I look slim and can most certainly fit a seat with no spillover).
unquote

If there is to be a penalty for being overweight then somebody has to arbitrate, for like FanPilot I am also 6'4" but 250 pounds (going down slowly) but am definitely not fat. I can even sit in an easyJ seat without distress to pax either side, can't move my legs much but I would get seriously hacked off at check in if I was penalised on the weight rather than size issue.

[daedalus]

Just to reply to the post which repeated the old saw "nobody came out of Belsen overweight."
Indeed not, but have you ever considered that the only people who came out of Belsen were the ones who were fat to begin with?