Emirates

[DuneMentat]

Confirmed a B773ER from 1 July.
gulfnews : Emirates to upgrade Dublin aircraft (http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/emirates-to-upgrade-dublin-aircraft-1.973314) and a link to back it up .. looks like very good load factors as well..

[Zippy Monster]

Interesting Go-around at Glasgow by the Emirates 777. The crew forgot to raise the gear for quite a while. Perhaps they were over-excited by the fierce Scottish weather!

Windshear, possibly?

I don't know about the 777, but on my airline's A320 fleet the SOP (one of the memory items, in fact) is not to touch the configuration until we have confirmed we are out of the shear. It's possible they had one in those conditions and left the gear deliberately.

[redED]

The gear helps to keep the speed manageable on a windshear go around too.

[chinapattern]

EK are launching Lisbon effective 9th July;

EK0191 0915 1445 D B772ER
EK0192 1755 0435 D B772ER

[Seljuk22]

MAD will go twice daily from 1st July followed by the launch of BCN at 3rd July
Emirates ramps up services to Spain | Emirates | About Emirates | News (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=776554&offset=0)

AMS will get the A380 from 1st August.

Update on the current air service agreement UK - UAE
UAE updates Air Services Agreement with UK (http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle08.asp?xfile=data/theuae/2012/February/theuae_February405.xml&section=theuae)

EK to sponsor US Open Series
http://www.emiratesusopenseries.com/USTA_and_Emirates_Airline_launch_landmark_partnership_for_US _Open_and_US_Open_Series/

[AP1995]

With all the upgrades from EK in UK airports, is there any chance they could be looking to expand into other UK airports?

[CabinCrewe]

Doubt it. Suspect they will build on existing airports and increase on them

[Jonnyf]

Whats the chance of Emirates bringing First class to Birmingham? Only Birmingham and Gatwick have not had any upgrades from Emirates since the latest announcements.

[Joe Curry]

is there any chance they could be looking to expand into other UK airports?
Edinburgh, the busiest Northern airport on the UK east coast must not be discounted. Either EK make a move or new EDI owners will offer other carriers
a deal they cannot refuse.?

[fl dutchman]

Cant think Emirates would start up at EDI just yet having just announced upgrade for NCL to a 777 300ER.
Have they not also announced an increase for the GLA service recently to twice daily ??

[CabinCrewe]

Yes, GLA will go double daily from June and introduce First Class Suites for the first time on the route. With over 600 seats a day from GLA and now 400 plus from NCL, it would be complete overkill to launch another Northern route. Would need to be another carrier and Emirates normally fight their ground very well.

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Ref Joe's post, this discussion was done to death a month or so ago, much of it on the Glasgow thread. We all await the THY-Etihad-Qatar announcement once EDI is sold - Cabin Crewe is right IMHO.

However, for 2013, deffo not for this year - negotiations with the new EDI owner then an announcement for a startup for 2013, and lots of taxiway closures over winter 12-13 to stop an A330 sinking like Sullys A320, unless its only TK with minibuses.

Step away from the Emirates, Joe, its not going to happen.

[Skipness One Echo]

I agree tbat EDI is hugely unlikely on the face of it, given the excellent points made above. However Emirates do not behave like a normal commercial entity. They gave MAN a daily A380 and another morning A330, they are putting a B777-300ER into Newcastle, DAILY! The sheer number of A380s coming will release more B777s for growth, and they have just added 90 to the Boeing orderbook. It would be amazing if EDI failed to catch Emirates before 2015 I think.

[Ringwayman]

Yes very odd non-normal commercial behavior by them. How dare EK give MAN an A380 when they stated that a large number of passengers out of MAN were booking A380 out of LHR. How dare EK add an extra A330 when they have stated that MAN has the largest untapped demand. Shall we compared them to the "rational" behaviour of a certain other airline?

NCL getting a 77W now does surprise me given the relatively light loads but I wonder if this is more cargo-driven.

[SWBKCB]

NCL getting a 77W now does surprise me given the relatively light loads but I wonder if this is more cargo-driven.

Load factors quoted as over 80% - I know loads aren't everything, but is this really light for a long-haul flight from a regional airport??

[GayFriendly]

BHX is about the same with 80% or thereabouts loads on their EK flights, especially since the increase in Mid East capacity at MAN - I agree with Ringwayman, I think EK put the 777 on to cope with cargo loads. Just like BHX, I bet NCL will see also its fair share of 777-200 as well as low density 300's, BHX gets a lot of the latter.

As for EDI, agree with Skipness, am sure it's on EK's radar but certainly not in the next 12 months or so based on capacity increases at GLA and NCL. Look at how well LGW has done in attracting new airlines since being sold (altho they have lost Air Asia X), am sure it will be the same at EDI

Don't hold your breath on TK, as I have said before they went on about going into BHX for 2 years or so before they actually did and put into print in the public domain that were would start GLA flights but these never materialised. Again, EDI is def on the radar but when it actually happens that could be a while too!

[Joe Curry]

It would be amazing if EDI failed to catch Emirates before 2015 I think.

It would be amazing if EDI didn't catch any competing direct service. Two less
busier airports on it's periphery with thousands of annual pax avoiding a London
stopover, the mind boggles at the effect a competing EDI service would have on them both. Not sure of NCL's ACN/PCN is it higher than EDI's?

[Skipness One Echo]

Wind your neck in Rungwayman, you are taking offence where none was meant. No one at Airbus or MAN saw the airport as having A380 operations this early on. This has nothing to do with BA now has it? Do you honestly think Emirates, Qatar and Etihad operate in the same commercial environment as the other long haul carriers at MAN? Hardly!

[OntimeexceptACARS]

It would be amazing if EDI didn't catch any competing direct service. Two less busier airports on it's periphery with thousands of annual pax avoiding a London stopover
Joe you just can't help yourself can you? Yes GLA and NCL are less busy, but passengers from EDI already avoid a London stopover....by using the M8 or the A1 :}

[GustyOrange]

It would be good if we kept this to EK and avoided the EDI-GLA bull that destroyed another thread.

G

[johnnychips]

Edinburgh is not the obvious place in Scotland for Emirates to expand. There is a more sensible site with a long runway; not too much congestion; available stand space; few people who use the Emirates service from Glasgow are likely to change to it, reducing the danger of dilution of that market:

Doncaster 'is part of Scotland' after 900-year-old administrative error comes to light - Yahoo! (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/doncaster--is-part-of-scotland--after-900-year-old-administrative-error-comes-to-light.html)

[MAN777]

And while they are at it why not throw a daily A380 into Newquay, long runway there as well:rolleyes:

[EGBE0523]

And while they are at it why not throw a daily A380 into Newquay, long runway there as well

Has possibilities. Throw in a high speed rail link and we almost have London's new airport!

[Seljuk22]

I can only see STN as a new passenger + cargo destination for EK in the near future.
LHR will go to 5 daily A380 (less cargo capacity compared to B77W) but what's next for London? LHR and LGW don't have that much slots. STN looks like a good alternative.

Leeds could be working for them as well but don't think it will come before 2020.

[adfly]

EK LON operation 2015 projections (IMO)


LHR either 5x daily A380 or 4x A380 +2x 77W - 5/6 per day

LGW 2x 77W + 1 A380 3 per day

STN 1x 77W (new) 1 per day

:)

[EI-A330-300]

Why do EK allow passengers to book onto flights when they are full. Almost everyday in DUB they are refusing passengers with bookings as the flights are over booked. One day there was 20 passengers refused and recently it was 15, but its constant. You would expect it from low cost carriers but not an airline like EK.

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Why do EK allow passengers to book onto flights when they are full. Almost everyday in DUB they are refusing passengers with bookings as the flights are over booked. One day there was 20 passengers refused and recently it was 15, but its constant. You would expect it from low cost carriers but not an airline like EK.

With respect, you would expect it from a full service airline and NOT a low cost carrier. Only had it once myself, with KLM. A free night at AMS with a T-shirt and keks, plus IIRC 100 Euros to thrash on beer....

[DannyKelly22]

its standard practice with Full Service airlines to overbook flights by up to 10% normally, they base it on that not everyone shows up for their flights r changes their travel plans last minute which can be the case with business passengers. I don;t know of any loco that overbook but most of the larger airlines do. I know for a fact that EI no longer overbook due to an excessive amount of compo they had to pay out to passengers one year at JFK airport. Its just one of those things and until the B773ER is operating DUB-DXB i would say get used to it cos it will probably happen most days between now July1st. Its just one of those practices that can sometimes save airlines money and sometimes cost them.

[redED]

Even BA (used to) do it. 10% is the figure I've heard. Covers the number usually missing due to connecting traffic.

[OltonPete]

Not much room this month either for aircraft substitution as I believe they are carrying out wing crack inspections on the A380.

Emirates A380 Operation Changes in March / April 2012 | Airline Route (http://airlineroute.net/2012/02/28/ek-380-mar12/)

Heathrow should have been three daily A380's over a month ago and four daily
at the end of this month but one flight has been delayed until May.

Rome was another route affected but I am wondering if Manchester is as
well now as a three class 777 is en route now on EK17 and it is also showing as the B77W tomorrow on EK17.

Monday shows the A380 back on the Manchester route.

Pete

[DannyKelly22]

BA still do it on most flights, those short haul flights with only 1 rotation per day they don't but they do on all long haul flights, especially to america where people can be re-routed through say JFK then connection with AA. I know this for a fact as teh last flight i was on to BWI was overbooked by 16 passengers going out and 25 coming home. People were upgraded to Club World and Premium Economy then the rest were re-routed or placed on the following days flight which then made that flight overbooked. Works for them most of the time as people either don't show or change their flight plans last minute or their incoming connection is delayed.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

B777 to DUB from 1 May and not as planned from 1 July.

[INLAK]

Over booking is a normal practice on most airlines. The number of pax who don't show up for flights can be astounding.
I was on an ID90 standby with BA out of DXB one night years ago. The flight was overbooked by 30 and I was number 34 on the standby list, and I still got on. So at least 64 pax booked didn't show up.

[Sober Lark]

I recently cancelled three sectors for 5 PAX with EK but they never removed the booking from their system. Result and invitation text for 5 PAX to check in for flights they were never going to take. Some unfortunate probably needed one of those seats.

[Seljuk22]

More flights to Jeddah (+4/7) from 1st June and Riyadh (+3/7) from 1st August
Emirates increases flights to Saudi Arabia | Emirates | About Emirates | News (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=856226&offset=0)

Karachi will get a fifth daily flight from 1st August
Emirates adds fifth daily frequency to Karachi | Emirates | About Emirates | News (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=830432&offset=2)

Washington D.C. will be launched from 12th September
Emirates to Launch New Service to Washington, DC | Emirates | About Emirates | News (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=819068&offset=2)

Rome will get a third daily flight from 1st October
Emirates boosts Rome services with 3rd daily flight | Emirates | About Emirates | News (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=832637&offset=2)


Chengdu and Hangzhou could be next in China
Chromeless Video Player (http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1021160665001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAA6PL_vPk~,f6y6aajAz9p9pvRV2 j5Uc5hGwlyQqAs_&bctid=1581368215001)

Codeshare with JetBlue
Emirates announces codeshare with JetBlue | Emirates | About Emirates | News (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=847773&offset=0)

And finally EK has a proper FB page
Emirates launches official Facebook page | Emirates | About Emirates | News (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=845778&offset=1)

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "As a curious spectator who lives in the region, does anybody know if Emirates ever have or ever will consider adding any caribbean routes? It seems to be the only major holiday destination they don't fly to.

Obviously BA, VS etc.. have a heavy presence here, but I didn't think that would bother Ek that much, just a lack of demand, or something more? I'd love to see EK flying around the islands one day."

Expect that would depend on the amount of traffic between the Caribbean and Asia/Australasia, probably not a great deal.

It's too long a dog-leg to expect traffic between the Caribbean and Europe/Africa to route via DXB!

As for the Americas......

[CabinCrewe]

Twice daily GLA-DXB today with Suites in first class. A340 on evening fight

[Seljuk22]

In the U.K., where Emirates serves London Heathrow, Birmingham, Manchester, Newcastle upon Tyne and Glasgow, there’s the possibility of it adding a further destination which “could be north of the border or further west,” he said.

Emirates Says (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-21/emirates-says-whole-load-of-airlines-will-fail-in-fuel-squeeze.html)

P.S. EK also serves London Gatwick :rolleyes:

[EZY7117LPL]

"north of the border or further west"
whats that supposed to mean?! Who do you think will be the lucky airport?

[EI-BUD]

My bet for an extra UK destination would be either Bristol (further west), or Edinburgh (north of the border). Though I would rule out Belfast as I don't feel it could sustain the sort of frequencies that Emirates seems to go after.

[EZY7117LPL]

Bristols runway is extremely short! I dont know wether it would be possible.

[mathers_wales_uk]

As for further west what are the possibilities of Cardiff?

Emirates allready offers codeshares on flights with Flybe via Glasgow, Eastern Airways via Newcastle and KLM via Amsterdam.

However would Cardiff Airport be able to sustain such a route by pulling enough passengers from the local catchment area amog those living around Bristol and any over spill from Birmingham? Also is there enough demand for cargo by the local companies to help support the porfitability of the route?

[MerchantVenturer]

This is not a new report and was being discussed on aviation message boards in March, though a brief search fails to reveal any trace of a discussion then on PPRuNe but I'm pretty certain there was one somewhere within the site.

From memory the remark was little more than a throwaway in response to a question by the business tv interviewer and words such as 'possibility' and 'could' were used.

EDI, CWL, BRS and BFS were discussed then as potential candidates.

As far as West of England/South Wales is concerned a view seemed to form that the area is well enough served from BHX, LHR and LGW already, though the latter is not so convenient from South Wales, and any Severnside route might only serve to dilute current route traffic, particularly BHX.

My understanding is that BRS would be ruled out of a non-stop route because of operational constraints at the airport.

[Seljuk22]

Emirates eyeing Adelaide as a destination :ok:
Emirates eyeing Adelaide as a destination - The West Australian (http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/business/a/-/national/13933050/emirates-eyeing-adelaide-as-a-destination/)

[Seljuk22]

Changes Summer 2012 + Winter 2012/2013 (AFAIK)

1st August
DOH +7/7 (6 daily in total)
KWI + 7/7 (5 daily in total)
KHI + 7/7 (5 daily in total)
RUH + 3/7 (17 weekly in total)
BSR + 3/7 (daily in total)
AMS B77W > A380
BKK B773 > B77W

12th August
new: Erbil 4 weekly A343

1st September
MAN B77W (2 class) > B77W (3 class)
NCL A332 (2 class) > B77W (2 class)
NCE A343 > A345
ATH A332 > B773
EBL +3/7 (daily A343 in total)

12th Sptember
new: Washington daily B77W

1st October
MEL-AKL B77W > A380
CPH B772 > B77W
FRA A332 > B77W (3 daily B77W in total)
LCA-MLA A332 > A343
HKG +1/7 A332 (2 daily (A380/B77W + A332) nonstop + daily A380 via BKK in total)
LUN-HRE +2/7 (daily A332 in total)

28th October
RUH +4/7 (3 daily in total)
CDG +1/7 (19 weekly in total)
BEY +4/7 (18 weekly in total)
DMM +3/7 (10 weekly in total)
LHR B77W > A380 (4 daily A380 in total)
MAN B773 > B77W (2 daily B77W + daily A380 in total)
LGW B772 > B773 (2 daily B77W + daily B773)
HYD A343 > B772
BLR A343 > B772 (2 daily A332 + daily B772 in total)
EBL A343 > A332
HKG A332 > A343
SGN A332 (2 class) > B77W (2 class)

1st November
new: Adelaide 4 weekly B77W

1st December
PER +5/7 (19 weekly in total)
DME B77W > A380
CMB-SIN B773 > B77W (2 class)
LOS A345 > B77W
TUN A345 > B773
HYD A343 > A345
LED A343 > A345

5th December
new: Lyon 5 weekly A345

1st January
JFK B77W > A380 (2 daily A380 in total)
CDG B77W > A380 (2 daily A380 + 5 weekly B77W in total)
GLA A343 > B77W (2 daily B77W in total)
ACC-ABJ A345 > B77W
VCE A343 > A345
IST B772 > B77W (2 class) (11 weekly B77W in total)

1st February
LHR B77W > A380 (5 daily A380 in total)
LIS B772 > B77W
LCA-MLA A343 > B772
DAR A345 > B77W (2 class)
HKG A343 > B77W (10 weekly B77W + 3 weekly A380 + 1 daily A380 via BKK in total)
ADL +3/7 (daily B77W in total)
NBO A343 > A345 (daily B772 + daily A345 in total)
HYD A343 > A345 (daily B772 + daily A345 + daily A332 in total)

6th February
new: Warsaw daily A332

1st March
PER +2/7 (2 daily B77W + 1 daily B77L in total)
DME A345 > B77W (daily A380 + daily B77W in total)
VCE A343 > A345 (2 daily A345 in total)

All 8 A343 to leave the fleet from 28th February 2013.

New bilateral with Japan eff summer 2013:
DXB-NRT double daily instead of daily
DXB-HND new daily service approved

[Seljuk22]

10th December
new: Dubai-Phuket daily A332

Unfortunately with bad connection from Europe:
EK378 DXB1245 – 2155HKT 332 D
EK379 HKT0035 – 0435DXB 332 D


Beirut to be increased from 14/7 to 18/7 from 28th Oct and further to 21/7 from 31st December.

EK354/355 DXB-SIN will get a B77W instead of B77L from 1st September.
On the other hand DXB-IAD will be launched with B77L instead of B77W on 12th September.

Emirates W12 Operation Changes as of 03AUG12 | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2012/08/03/ek-w12update4/)


22nd A380 was delivered these days. 9 more to follow until the end of this year.

[ib26uk]

Looking at the Emirates route map - Could Emirates make Perth & Adelaide A380 routes with a flight to Auckland NZ

Auckland would then have all EK A380 flights from Australia...

[Seljuk22]

I think in the near future most of all DXB-Australia flights will be with A380 especially when this comes into effect:
Qantas en route to alliance with Emirates (http://www.smh.com.au/business/qantas-en-route-to-alliance-with-emirates-20120831-2558r.html#ixzz256Sl1t4E)

Don't kwow much about the bilateral / demand Australia-New Zealand.


1st Dec DXB-SIN daily A380 instead of DXB-JNB
Emirates Shifts Planned Johannesburg Airbus A380 Service to Singapore from Dec 2012 | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2012/08/30/ek-sinjnb-dec12/)

[OltonPete]

Air stewardess sacked for being drunk on board a flight to Birmingham - Birmingham News - News - Birmingham Mail (http://www.birminghammail.net/news/birmingham-news/2012/09/04/air-stewardess-sacked-for-being-drunk-on-board-a-flight-to-birmingham-97319-31759950/)

I know how she must have felt, in economy on a packed flight back to BHX from DXB and I only had two kids to deal with :)

The bit I want to know is what she did to get praise from one passenger - quote "My client felt she did perform her duties reasonably, and in fact, one of the passengers praised her for being helpful and attentive,”:confused:

Oh well she might be able to spend more time with her family now.

Pete

[Seljuk22]

EK inaugurates flights to IAD this week
Emirates Inaugurates Non-Stop daily service to Washington, DC | Emirates United Arab Emirates (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=980948&offset=0)

BOS could be their next US-destination


changes/new routes during winter 2012/2013

from 1st October DXB-AMM from 13 weekly to 14 weekly

from 1st October DXB-LUN-HRE from 5 weekly A332 to daily A332; from 1st February from daily A332 to daily B77W

from 28th October DXB-JED from 18 weekly to 21 weekly (double daily A380 + daily A332; from 1st January double daily A380 + daily B77W)

from 28th October DXB-MRU from 11 weekly to 12 weekly; from 28th November from 12 weekly to 14 weekly (all B773)

resumption:
from 29th October DXB-TIP 4 weekly A332; from 2nd January 4 weekly A343

from 3rd December DXB-SEZ from 11 weekly to 12 weekly; from 5th February from 12 weekly to 13 weekly (all A345)

from 1st December DXB-TUN from daily A345 to 5 weekly B773 (despite frequency reduction it's a capacity increase)

from 1st February DXB-CPH from 3-class B77W (360 seats) to 2-class B77W (427 seats)


new: from 1st March 2013 DXB-ALG daily A332
Emirates to launch daily service to Algeria | Emirates United Arab Emirates (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=980927&offset=0)



Due to the QF agreement PER and FRA should be new A380 destinations in 2013

[Seljuk22]

Due to new bilateral agreement between Philippine and UAE EK will add a third daily flight to MNL from 1st January

other updates see below:
Emirates W12 Operation Changes as of 26SEP12 | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2012/09/26/ek-w12update5/)

Looks like a few A340-300 will stay in the summer 2013.

There will be 7 A380 and 5 B77W to be delivered until the end of this year and EK wants up to 40 more A380
UPDATE 1-Emirates Airline's Clark says wants more Airbus A380s | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/27/emirates-boeing-idUSL1E8KRIQD20120927?type=marketsNews)

[Seljuk22]

1st December
DXB-LED A343 > B773
aircraft swap: DXB-GIG-EZE B77W > B77L <-> DXB-LAX B77L > B77W
3rd December DXB-KUL +4/7, 4th February +1/7 (26 weekly in total)
10th December DXB-HKT will be launched with A343 instead of A332
1st January DXB-MNL +7/7 (3 daily B77W in total)
1st March DXB-CGK +7/7 (3 daily B77W in total)

planned resumption to TIP cancelled

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Received this from EK Skywards:

Dear ----------------,

We are excited to welcome easyJet as our new airline partner, bringing you many new reward destinations in Europe and North Africa.

From 6 November 2012, for as little as 7,500* Skywards Miles you can travel even further across Europe, using easyJet's extensive network. Just one Economy Class return trip# with Emirates from United Kingdom to Australia, New Zealand or the Far East can earn you enough Miles for a reward flight from London Luton to Alicante or Geneva and many more.

You can use your Miles to pay for the flight inclusive of taxes, charges and airport fees as well as for optional extras such as sports equipment.

As a special launch offer, you could win back up to 25,000 Miles, if yours is one of the first 30 easyJet tickets to be redeemed using Skywards Miles. Terms and Conditions apply. (http://e.emirates.travel/a/hBQmBrgB7RC0OB8u7v%24C56lwD0i/ek7-3)

So are Emirates desperate.?

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Dear Mr -----------------------------------------------,

We are excited to welcome easyJet as our new airline partner, bringing you many new reward destinations in Europe and North Africa.

From 6 November 2012, for as little as 7,500* Skywards Miles you can travel even further across Europe, using easyJet's extensive network. Just one Economy Class return trip# with Emirates from United Kingdom to Australia, New Zealand or the Far East can earn you enough Miles for a reward flight from London Luton to Alicante or Geneva and many more.

You can use your Miles to pay for the flight inclusive of taxes, charges and airport fees as well as for optional extras such as sports equipment.

As a special launch offer, you could win back up to 25,000 Miles, if yours is one of the first 30 easyJet tickets to be redeemed using Skywards Miles. Terms and Conditions apply. (http://e.emirates.travel/a/hBQmBrgB7RC0OB8u7v%24C56lwD0i/ek7-3)

[Sober Lark]

The Arabs are conquering everything within a 100 light years of them these days.

[Fairdealfrank]

Looks like these carriers have got their eyes on the many young Aussies and Kiwis who go travelling, turn up in the UK, sometimes on a 2 year work permit, and visit as much of Europe as they can during their time here.

Possibly linked to the upcoming EK/QF JSA?

[pabely]

Why do they suggest Luton legs on EZY, why do they not state LGW, is there something implied here???

[c46r]

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/emirates-buy-100-777s-if-boeing-builds-new-model-478883.html

[atakacs]

Anyone knows what it is Emirates is unhappy with regarding the 350-1000 ? And to what extent the 340 is a "disaster" for them ??

[Torquelink]

Emirates and Qatar have told Airbus that the A350-1000 should be bigger - in terms of pax count. Currently it will have 350 seats in three classes and Airbus say will reduce per seat fuel burn compared to the current 777-300ER by 20%. Airbus also say that the stretched 777 will need a longer wing which will preclude it from using current widebody twin gates - confining it to 747 / A380 gates unless Boeing incorporate a wing fold mechanism (which Boeing are indeed looking at). On the other hand, Boeing's view is that with 407 three class seats and brand-new engines the 777-9X will "render the A350-1000 obsolete before it flies" and will have lower smcs than the A380. Their view is that airports will find a way to accommodate the aircraft because airlines will demand that they do.

[c46r]

The are unhappy with it, because it's a Bus that's why

[Dropp the Pilot]

I propose this as the new Airbus company slogan. So pithy, so true.

[Doors to Automatic]

What is wrong with the existing 777-300ER? I presume they are looking for seat cost savings akin to the 787 over its predecessors?

[Sovi3tskiy]

"The are unhappy with it, because it's a Bus that's why"

yeah I think that was the tactic all along, they gave us a clue with a bus in the name and now the second one with the standing seats idea :}

[Torquelink]

What is wrong with the existing 777-300ER? I presume they are looking for seat cost savings akin to the 787 over its predecessors?

If there wasn't the threat of the A350 I expect Boeing would have been more than happy to build the current -300ER unchanged for years to come - must be a fantastic cash cow by now. If Airbus can deliver a 20% reduction in fuel burn per seat - and presumably a reduction in maintenance costs too - compared to the 777-300ER, then the 777-8X and 9X must at least match that so, yes, the new model will deliver the same order of improvement that the 787 has delivered compared to the 767.

[Doors to Automatic]

On that basis I am surprised that they are not developing the 778 and 779 already. Resting on one's laurels is never the best business strategy in this industry!

[Torquelink]

On that basis I am surprised that they are not developing the 778 and 779 already. Resting on one's laurels is never the best business strategy in this industry!

Airbus slipping the in-service date of the A350-1000 by two years to 2018 gave them a breathing space a) to re-build the R&D war chest following 787 and 748 development and b) to see what the engine manufacturers could do given a few more years. With the additional time and resources they can comtemplate a brand-new carbon wing and brand-new engines (as opposed to further developments of the GE90 and/or Trent). In-service date is now 2020 at the earliest and possibly a bit later i.e. at least two to three years behind the -1000 but Boeing reckon they will have another generation of engine technology which, with the new wing, will ensure Emirates and others will wait for. It also lets them complete what they see as the greater priorities of 737 MAX development and stretch of the 787 to the 787-10 ahead of re-doing the 777.

[Seljuk22]

A340-500 vs B777-300ER

4 engines vs 2 engines (4 engines: higher costs)
258 seats vs 360 seats (more seats per flight)
15,000 kg freight vs 23,000 kg freight (more freight per flight)

And there is also the B777-200LR (2 engines, 266 seats, 15,000 kg freight)for ultra-long distance flights.

[Seljuk22]

EK launched 15 new destination in 2012:
GIG, EZE, DUB, LUN, HRE, DFW, SEA, SGN, BCN, LIS, EBL, IAD, ADL, LYS, HKT

11 A380 + 18 B77W were delivered to EK this year - EK has 31 A380 + 82 B77W in total now

WAW and ALG already announced and rumour has it ARN, BOS and MIA to be launched in 2013, too

All 5 LHR-flights op. by A380 + NRT, AMS, MEL, SIN and DME joined the A380 network this year.

First A343 left the fleet and the last 4 to be retired at the end of 2013 joined by some A332 and A345.

Concourse A at DXB to be opened in early 2013 bringing the total capacity to 75 mln passenger.
Press releases (http://www.dubaiairport.com/EN/MEDIA-CENTRE/Pages/press-releases.aspx?id=113)

QF will transfer its flights to LHR from SIN to DXB eff. 31st March:
SYD-DXB-LHR daily A380 + MEL-DXB-LHR daily A380


2013

1st January
RUH +7/7 (4 daily in total)
MNL +7/7 B77W (3 daily B77W (all 2-class) in total)
EBL +1/7 (6 weekly A332 in total)
JFK B77W > A380 (2 daily A380 in total)
CDG B77W > A380 (2 daily A380 + 5 weekly B77W in total)
GLA A343 > B77W (2 daily B77W in total)
ACC-ABJ A345 > B77W
JED A332 > B77W (2 daily A380 + daily B77W in total)
VCE A343 > A332 (daily A343 + daily A332 in total)
IST B772 > B77W (2-class) (11 weekly B77W in total)

1st February
KUL +1/7 (26 weekly in total)
SEZ +1/7 (13 weekly in total)
ADL +3/7 (daily B77W in total)
PEW +2/7 (5 weekly in total)
CPH B77W (3-class) > B77W (2-class)
LUN-HRE A332 > B77W
IAD B77L > B77W
HAM B77W > B77L (daily B77W + daily B77L in total)
LIS B772 > B77L
DAR A345 > B77W (2-class)
LCA-MLA A343 > B772
CPT B77W > A343 (double daily A343 in total)
NBO A343 > A345 (daily B772 + daily A345 in total)

6th February
new: WAW daily A332

1st March
new: ALG daily A332
CGK +7/7 (3 daily B77W (all 2-class) in total)
PER +2/7 (2 daily B77W + daily B77L in total)
BKK B77W (2-class) > B77W (3-class) (daily A380 + 2 daily B77W + daily B773 in total)
HKG A343 > B77W (11 weekly A380 + 10 weekly B77W in total)
DME A345 > B77W (daily A380 + daily B77W in total)
VCE A343 > A345 (daily A345 + daily A332 in total)

31st March
KUL +2/7 (daily A380 + daily B77W + daily B773 + daily A332 in total)
DAC +2/7 (3 daily in total)
CDG +1/7 (double daily A380 + 6 weekly B77W in total)
LED B773 > A345

[BALHR]

I have noticed a major gap in their future fleet, once they withdraw the A330s (without a direct replacement), EK faces a major gap in their fleet, they will not operate an aircraft smaller than a 777-200ER/LR or Airbus A350-900, not good if they want to have a flexible fleet (you need aircraft of all sizes, whatever the airline, the only difference being what your biggest aircraft) and limits the number of routes that EK can operate (not all routes to DXB can sustain large wide-bodied)

So if EK want to serve as many markets as possible (remember, their location is one of the best in terms of serving the emerging world) profitably, its need to obtain smaller aircraft (like its rivals EY and QR) like 787s/A330s and 737s/A320s

However FlyDubai (which has the same owners as EK) already operates smaller aircraft and so does Eithad (in fact aircraft of all sizes) which is basically a sister airline, since it its owned by the sister emirate to Dubai (both families have close relations with each other, as well as part of the same country), weirdly both EK and EY have (at least in the past) ambitions to be the national carrier of the UAE

At the same time Dubai is building a new airport in Jebel Ali (Al Maktoum International Airport-DWC), which is not only vast, but also close enough (via HSR, which I am sure both emirates could afford) to both Dubai and Abu Dhabi

What I am suggesting is that Emirates should merge with FlyDubai and Eithad to form the “new” Emirates based in DWC (with DXB and AUH both being shut down), an airline that can finally claim to serve the UAE and to be dominant in a fast growing region (aviation wise) well ahead of QR, certainly a better idea than EY funding Air Berlin, despite its poor financial prospects…

[pwalhx]

If you understood the different Emirates, you would understand that they are very competitive and it is unlikely we would see a merger between EY and EK.

[BALHR]

If you understood the different Emirates, you would understand that they are very competitive and it is unlikely we would see a merger between EY and EK.


While they are at seperate airports yes...

But remember, the rulers of both Emirates have close relations with each other (both branches of the same family) and have common interests, in fact so close Abu Dhabi "bailed out" Dubai when the latter has issues with their debt

All I am saying is that EY is better off merging with EK once DWC opens than investing in Air Berlin

[pwalhx]

They are close family yes, but what I am saying is that there is competition between families and that is what happens in the Emirates, it is a matter of separate pride that each Emirate has an airline and therefore the merging of the two is unlikely.

[BALHR]

They are close family yes, but what I am saying is that there is competition between families and that is what happens in the Emirates, it is a matter of separate pride that each Emirate has an airline and therefore the merging of the two is unlikely.


In that case what about a Emirates-FlyDubai merger?

[pwalhx]

EK - Full Service Fly Dubai - LCC different models, but as you say they share the same owners why do they need to merge.

[BALHR]

EK - Full Service Fly Dubai - LCC different models, but as you say they share the same owners why do they need to merge.


So that Emirates can better serve the local Middle East region with aircraft sutable for the job, along with smaller destionations that can only be served out of DXB with 737/787/A319/A320/A321/A330s

[pwalhx]

Last time I was in Dubai (November 2012) there were plenty of EK flights to regional destinations, so they seem to be managing quite well. If EK need a different aircraft type for some services they would be buying it, buying aircraft doesn't seem to be a problem for them.

[BALHR]

Last time I was in Dubai (November 2012) there were plenty of EK flights to regional destinations, so they seem to be managing quite well. If EK need a different aircraft type for some services they would be buying it, buying aircraft doesn't seem to be a problem for them.


The Government of Dubai has basically desided to let all the 737/A320s flights out of Dubai that they run in the hands of FlyDubai

What I am suggesting is that FlyDubai becomes a subsidery of The Emirates Group and increases ties with EK

Would it be a good idea?

[Suzeman]

All I am saying is that EY is better off merging with EK once DWC opens

DWC has been open for some time but has no passenger flights, only freighters. The terminal is being used for non-aviation purposes such as business exhibitions. Passenger operations on any scale seem to be some way off yet.

DXB has just opened the EK T3 A380 concourse which should keep them going for a few years yet with capacity now up to 75 million and demand at 57 million.
Press releases (http://www.dubaiairport.com/EN/MEDIA-CENTRE/Pages/press-releases.aspx?id=116)

Plans exist for 90 million capacity at DXB by 2018 and indeed construction of Concourse 4 at DXB is already under way in the NW corner of the airfield

From the Dubai Airports Strategic plans to 2020

Although DWC is the long-term solution to Dubai’s aviation needs, adequate capacity to house Emirates’ considerable operation is not expected to be in place until at least the mid-point of the next decade. Accordingly, and until such time that DWC is adequately developed, Dubai International must expand to accommodate fleet expansion and traffic growth and retain the network
efficiency established by its main hub carriers.

SP 2020, Dubai Airports’ ten-year masterplan, outlines aggressive expansion plans for airspace, airfield, stands and terminal areas at Dubai International. The plan takes into account the need to minimise constraints on growth by delivering timely capacity, while improving service levels and generating strong cash flow to maximise capital investment. Further, it effectively balances the need for facility development, process improvement and demand management to ensure optimal utilisation of facilities and maximum return on investment.
It is also designed to reinforce Dubai’s hub status and ensure a smooth transition to Dubai World Central in the long term.

Finally, the plan requires the construction of additional terminals and
concourse areas. SP2020 calls for the creation of an additional 675,000 sqm
of floor space – twice the footprint of London Heathrow Terminal 5.
Highlighting this expansion, and separate from the construction of
Concourse 3, is the expansion of Terminal 2 and the construction of
Concourse 4.

http://www.dubaiairport.com/en/media-centre/Documents/Dubai%20Airports%20Brochure_front%20FINAL.pdf

They are close family yes, but what I am saying is that there is competition between families and that is what happens in the Emirates, it is a matter of separate pride that each Emirate has an airline and therefore the merging of the two is unlikely.

Absolutely correct.

[Seljuk22]

EK is the 3rd largest carrier in the world comparing ASK
United ends 2012 as world's biggest airline, Emirates third. Turkish and Lion Air the biggest movers | CAPA - Centre for Aviation (http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/united-ends-2012-as-worlds-biggest-airline-emirates-third-turkish-and-lion-air-the-biggest-movers-93047)

[ayroplain]

I've been under the impression that Emirates is highly regarded but this incident has me puzzled. Relatives of mine are returning to SYD from LHR via Dubai on a 380. Shortly before arrival in Dubai it was announced that they were "diverting" to Sharjah for refuelling. They were kept on the ground for more than 3 and a half hours before taking off for the short flight to Dubai.

To make matters worse they missed their connection to SYD and, following a 6 hour wait at Dubai, they are being put on a flight to Perth where a further 4 hour wait awaits them before their flight to SYD. Their journey has, thus, been extended by about 14 hours.

In relation to the diversion, from my limited knowledge of that part of the world, that would be the equivalent of an LHR bound flight diverting to LGW due fuel issues which is hardly likely. Is it?

[Sober Lark]

http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/481592-dxb-evening-30-03-2012-a.html

[pwalhx]

If, for whatever reason, there were long holds into Heathrow and the aircraft was low on fuel then yes it may well divert ot Gatwick or Stansted.

There was obviously some good reason this flight needed to divert to Sharjah.

[chaps2011]

If long holds at Dubai and none at Sharjah you are low on fuel I know which I would take, fog is a strange beast and can behave in strange ways like it is in Manchester today

Chaps

[ARNSpoty]

Guess that 3rd RWY will be slighly too tight for OMDB, unless they demolish the Al Twar area:E...

[Tower Ranger]

There were no weather factors involved, just too many planes wanting to land at the same time.

[aeulad]

I am very surprised EK haven't had Paris ORLY in their sights. Is it a possibility

Kind regards

Mike

[simoncorbett]

ayroplain....In relation to the diversion, from my limited knowledge of that part of the world, that would be the equivalent of an LHR bound flight diverting to LGW due fuel issues which is hardly likely. Is it?

Yes .. well this has happened to me in the past & the flight from LGW to LHR must go down as 1 of the shortest 747 flights (ever?) & very memorable....

Simon

[Skipness One Echo]

I am very surprised EK haven't had Paris ORLY in their sights. Is it a possibility
Would they be allowed to? American were dragged kicking and screaming out of Orly to CDG on the orders of le French state.

[ARNSpoty]

I am very surprised EK haven't had Paris ORLY in their sights. Is it a possibility

As "Skipness" said, are the authorised? It's just like the Canada misery for EK, as they are only limited to flying there 3 times a week:*; surely around 100% payload on those few flights. Man will they make paper if they could introduce more frequencies.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "I am very surprised EK haven't had Paris ORLY in their sights. Is it a possibility

Kind regards

Mike"

Agreed, much nicer airport than that dump, CDG (hope that's not too harsh, but it is s****hole). After all, with their operations model, EK have no need to feed AF's hub!

Almost certainly to do with bilateral agreements as Skipness stated. The French government isn't known for "open skies" mentality.

Back in the 1990s they wanted BA out of ORY, BA had to go to court to have the route reinstated (contravention of EU regulations). Having gone through all that hassle the route was dropped years later and has just recently been reinstated.

[airhumberside]

Orly is also slot restricted. Not impossible to get slots, but far from automatic either

[ayroplain]

Thanks for all your interesting replies.

[Mr Mac]

Any confirmed news on A380 for evening slot from Manchester later this year yet. Came back from DXB before Xmas, and CSD was of the opinion it could happen, given load factors, but she personaly hoped it would not, as she was on the Boeing fleet, and was from Northern UK. Got the feeling it maybe on the cards, as she was a long serving sand pit dweller, and an exceptional CSD for her airline in my humble opinion. :ok:

[ayroplain]

Some more detail has been revealed of the Emirates debacle at Dubai last week as described above.

1. After the fuel-enforced diversion they were informed that it was the intention to disembark the passengers at Sharjah and coach them the short journey to Dubai but none of the steps tried were suitable for a 380.

2. After refueling the 380 was unable to depart owing to another aircraft being in the way (also refueling). Consequently, they missed their slot back to Dubai and had to wait a long, long time for another one.

3. A crew member informed them that, due to the (much) cheaper cost of fuel at Dubai, the 380 in question had been loaded with fuel to do both the original trip to LHR and the return trip to Dubai and that was why they were short and unable to hold on arrival back.

4. The second part of their journey which they had booked direct to SYD was replaced with a two-legger to Perth where they changed to a Qantas flight to SYD. Emirates told them that their baggage was checked all the way to SYD but it wasn't. The baggage was taken off at Perth and left in an unclaimed area.

5. No compensation was offered despite the 4 hour delay at Sharjah, the 6 hour delay at Dubai and the 4 hour delay at Perth. This overall delay of 14 hours meant that one of the party lost a day's work in SYD.

All in all I think this was an absolutely disgraceful way to treat passengers. If it had been FR the media would have had a field day.

[akerosid]

That's probably because this event didn't get any publicity; EK is a very publicity conscious airline and an event like this, splashed across the pages of a major newspaper would certainly elicit a more different response.

In any case, since the flight originated in the EU, would they not have any obligations to compensate passengers?

[crewmeal]

The second part of their journey which they had booked direct to SYD was replaced with a two-legger to Perth where they changed to a Qantas flight to SYD. Emirates told them that their baggage was checked all the way to SYD but it wasn't. The baggage was taken off at Perth and left in an unclaimed area.

When a diversion occurs then all the onward passenger's schedules will be thrown in to chaos. Once a plane has landed then the ground staff will take over and try and offer the best solution. In this case it looks like these poor people were offered the worst. Why they couldn't have been offered a night in DXB then then put on a direct flight to SYD is beyond comprehension. Those who dealt with this should be retrained in how to handle situations like this. (I can't believe this would be a cost cutting exercise in hotel expenses.) Did the passengers ever get reconciled with their baggage?

Oh btw the UK is about to be embraced in a week of snow and Sky are already reporting that around 250 flights are being cancelled, and it hasn't even started! Let the diversions begin!

[Seljuk22]

I think EK is limited to only a few points in France with limited frequencies (same like Germany). Canada is just 1 point with 3 weekly flights. EK want to serve YUL, YYC and YVR (SEA = YVR south).
Also South Corea, Japan, China, India, Pakistan is limited / need intensive negotiation with local government to add further destinations/frequencies.


From 31st March EK will introduce a fifth daily flight to BKK with 3-class A332. From 1 September this flight will switch to 3-class B77W.

After adding additional daily flights to KUL, MNL, CGK; the launch of daily flights to SGN and HKT + introducing the A380 on SIN last year, South East Asia facing a big capacity boost.

Don't forget Australia with a 3rd dialy flight to PER, new daily ADL, A380 to MEL-AKL and upcoming QF cooperation with daily A380 to SYD and MEL.

Wondering if we see some more flights to East Asia (China, South Corea, Japan) + a rumoured launch of TPE and CTU.

In 2013 we should see the launch of ARN, BOS and MIA.
ORD, OSL, BRU, TPE, CTU and AGP are also possible/rumoured.

[Heathrow Harry]

yeah - a lot of people in S Australia are looking forward to that ADL flight

[Sober Lark]

From personal experience resulting from a similar fuel diversion, I can state with all sincerity that the three star hotel we were put up in didn't cost Emirates a kilo of fuel.

Of the numbers on that flight how many will actually complain effectively?

[EI-A330-300]

A second daily B777 service to DUB is almost certain, reading yesterday that EK said the last 3 months of 2012 had a flowen LF of 90% and the DUB is now generating an operating profit but a better pricture won't be known until lather this year. Last May EK said they expected a second daily within 18 months and by the end of 2013 that will of passed. If I can find the link I will post it.

[MAN FLEX 99]

Think this is the one your looking for

Emirates positive on prospects for Dublin - The Irish Times - Wed, Aug 22, 2012 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0822/1224322659157.html)

[Seljuk22]

31st March DXB-BKK from 4 daily to 5 daily (new flight with A332; 1st September B77W)

1st June
DXB-NRT B77W replaces A380
DXB-SYD A380 replaces B77W

new: 3rd June DXB-HND daily B77L
Emirates to open third destination in Japan | Emirates United Arab Emirates (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=1107729&offset=2)

new: 1st October DXB-CRK daily B77W
Emirates announces second destination in the Philippines | Emirates United Arab Emirates (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=1136785&offset=1)

[Msunduzi]

"All in all I think this was an absolutely disgraceful way to treat passengers. If it had been FR the media would have had a field day."

We will never fly emirates again.

We thought that flying from Birmingham to Manila via Dubai would be convenient with a 1 year old, as the trip would be split roughly in half.

On the outward trip, on arrival in Dubai, there were no pushchairs available as promised. We had to go through security twice on arrival, the one queue took over 40 minutes, total chaos, being told to queue in one place then another.

There were no seats available (we had a nine hour wait for the onward flight), the floors were filthy, long queues at the inadequate number of toilets, which were so dirty my wife refused to change the baby in them (no changing facilities)

On departure, we had to go through security again, why three checks on a transit stop is a bit hard to understand.

On the return trip, we handed our pushchair to the Emirates staff at the boarding gate, never to be seen again, and compensation refused as we did not report it at Birmingham airport (both the baby and my wife had severe stomach cramps, and it had taken us over an hour to get through immigration, as my step-son did not have a British passport), we did not see anywhere to report lost luggage, and just wanted to get home.

Dubai was a little better on the way back, still very short of seating and toilets, but at least they were being kept clean, even if that did make the queues even longer.

None of my family has flown with Emirates since (family in Philippines and South Africa), now it is KLM, really a pleasant experience in comparison.

I can only agree that their treatment of passengers leaves a lot to be desired. I have flown with BOAC, BUA, BA, Virgin, SA Airways, KLM, PAL, Cebu Pacific, Cathay Pacific, Air France, Alitalia and smaller regional airlines, but have never had an experience that has put me off like our experience with Emirates.

[Joe Curry]

How much longer can Emirates ignore EDI? The 2x daily service from GLA
isn't exactly doing great. Were EK a bit wet behind the ears introducing it's
2nd daily Scottish flight from GLA? Were they afraid of diluting the first daily flight there or are they confident that any competing Middle East/Asia direct EDI service would not?

[VickersVicount]

I understand EK are delighted with the 2nd daily to GLA with over 2/3 on each flight going out full including First class. Its response has been greater than other stations up to double daily including BHX. With discussions already around one service becoming an A380 in the future, the success is clear to see.
Not sure where your information has come from ?

[LAX_LHR]

Not sure where your information has come from

Bitterness, and nothing more judging by his previous postings.

[Joe Curry]

CAA 2012 route stats for GLA

DUBAI 314692 14.42679699

A lot of empty seats involving 2x daily inbound/outbounds with 400+ seat aircraft? Even with 70% loads it equates to 230 aircraft each year flying empty? But then I'm not a number cruncher perhaps someone could give us an approximate figure of rotations. aircraft type and seat capacities.?

[ScotsSLF]

Flew GLA - DXB - BOM and return four weeks ago. Excellent experience with both GLA legs around 70% full although 1st / Business quiet on the evening flight out. The return early morning flight was pretty full business class wise. Emirates will continue to focus on GLA and NCL so EDI will not see them for some time to come. I though Etihad were rumoured to be starting from EDI?

[goldeneye]

Cargo is an important factor too, I think EK does well with the belly cargo on their Glasgow flights.

Personally I'd like to see EY or QR come to Scotland, Don't mind EDI or GLA, although being from the east EDI is better for me :O

[Joe Curry]

I though Etihad were rumoured to be starting from EDI?

Another airline will eventually compete against EK from EDI. A competing ME route ex EDI would do just as well, if not better as EDI tends to trump similar scheduled routes from GLA.

EK are obviously aware of this. Will they or won't they have second thoughts.?

[LAX_LHR]

A lot of empty seats involving 2x daily inbound/outbounds with 400+ seat aircraft? Even with 70% loads it equates to 230 aircraft each year flying empty?
But then I'm not a number cruncher perhaps someone could give us an approximate figure of rotations. aircraft type and seat capacities.?

As has been said on this and many forums, many times.

Loads are in no way an indication of how a route is doing, its all about the money made.

The load may be 70%, but, if in that 70% the J cabin is full and F has a fair load, then there is a good chance the flight is making money.

Also, under the passengers, there could be a tidy profit in cargo. Back in 2007, I had the chance to meet a senior figure at EK. He told me that on 4 days per week (at the time), the MAN-DXB flight could go out with a 0% load and still make money. Says it all really.

Joe, I notice that some months the Turkish flights to EDI had a 60% load factor, are you similarly going to make a claim that 'Turkish are obviously ignoring GLA, as they are flying x number of empty planes per year'? Nope? Thought not.....

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Another airline will eventually compete against EK from EDI."

Indeed, it is TK.

[OltonPete]

Emirates S13 Operation Changes as of 26MAR13 | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2013/03/26/ek-s13update2/)

Manchester getting the 489 seat A380 for three months although that in general happened ad-hoc last year. No doubt BHX will see the three class 77W's during this period.

Glasgow

The last four months per the CAA (my estimates of load factor)

February 27217 - 243 pax per flight - 69% load factor (77W & 77L)
January 32572 - 263 pax per flight - 72% load factor (77W)
December 29436 - 237 pax per flight - 80% load factor (77W & A343)
November 28401 - 236 pax per flight - 76% load factor (77W & A343)

As LAX_LHR has said it is all about yields but I would be sceptical at any press release, EK are no different to the rest when it comes to spin.

Another article states they are considering reducing first class to 4 seats although the article below also claims that they are considering two class 77W's :eek: I assume they mean more two class variants, which is already in progress with a lot of the last batch (one currently on delivery now) are two class.

Emirates plans two-class Airbus A380, dropping first class suites - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller (http://www.ausbt.com.au/emirates-plans-two-class-airbus-a380-dropping-first-class)

The two-class A380 seems to be back on the agenda as well.

Pete

[Skipness One Echo]

Were EK a bit wet behind the ears introducing it's
2nd daily Scottish flight from GLA?
if not better as EDI tends to trump similar scheduled routes from GLA.
How about on long haul? Delta wasn't a success was it? EDI and GLA have one United a day in winter and a double UA vs a UA / US in summer, hardly "trumping". What you mean is EDI does better in inbound tourism from Europe. As for EK, EDI is sandwiched between GLA and NCL so not looking likely. Joe you don't thinl EK will serve EDI and GLA, you're just trolling. Again.

Your team may get EY or QR in the medium term, please stop whining about another team's relative success, it makes you sound bitter.

[LAX_LHR]

Manchester getting the 489 seat A380 for three months although that in general happened ad-hoc last year. No doubt BHX will see the three class 77W's during this period

Airlineroute has indicated this in the past, but the 517 seat A380 still made regular appearances anyway.

Even if the 489 seat aircraft does appear, its actually more of a compliment to MAN as the number of F/J seats remains the same, its steerage that gets the seat reduction. As being discussed, its F/J where the real money is made. It just means the cabin crew get a nice rest area :)

[OntimeexceptACARS]

To deal with a couple of points raised by Joe Curry :

Source : CAA statistics for freight (Table 14) Oct-Dec 2012, in Tonnes :

Freight EU :

EDI 725 823 826 = 2374
GLA 55 65 70 = 190

Freight non-EU:
EDI 7 5 5 = 17
GLA 653 750 733 = 2136

Freight UK
EDI 727 909 919 = 2555
GLA 80 117 88 = 285

You can surmise the following :
1. Edinburgh has the UPS, TNT and Royal Mail hubs which obviously drive the parcels business from there.
2. Turkish are not doing much in terms of freight via IST
3. Glasgow and Edinburgh only have the US as a freight destination, and unless Glasgow outperforms EDI massively on the United flights its safe to say that the vast majority of the non-EU freight is on Emirates.
4. That splits down to an average of about 23.2 tonnes per day from Glasgow to non-EU destinations.

...and lastly, ergo, Joe, your passenger load factors are only part of the story. Its why GLA is a big success for UAE, and why Tim Clark sees it as "on their radar", despite the A380 having less freight capacity.

[Joe Curry]

It's obvious that GLA does more in terms of non-EU freight on the strength
of the exclusive EK service. Would that be the case if EK were flying a similar
service from EDI.
It would make sense that EDI would attract more freight on it's central distribution position in Scotland alone.

[Skipness One Echo]

Joe I know you're a man who has been around so at 75, how can you have failed to notice EDI is on the East coast (note all that water on the approach) and GLA is inland on the Western side. EDI is many things, but it is not, really, really not more central. Behave.

[rpmac]

Edinburgh AIRPORT is on the west of Edinburgh, close to the M8 and M9 and therefore very central for a large catchment area of Scotland.

[VickersVicount]

"EDI is many things, but it is not, really, really not more central. Behave"
You are wrong.

[Skipness One Echo]

The clue is all the water to the east. Buy a map. To be any more on the east coast would involve float planes.

[Joe Curry]

Fact is one thing, belief another. If the naïve believe Glasgow Airport is the centre of the Scottish Universe they won't be convinced otherwise.

[VickersVicount]

Accessibility studies suggest EDI is most convenient for 50% of Scotland's population compared to 39% for GLA. A Map view really cannot argue with that.

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Can we get off this tiresome subject please and get back to Emirates? Be interested in Joe's (or anyone else's) reply to the success of the EXISTING Emirates business from Glasgow, given the freight loads.

I don't know if these loads are good/bad by B77W standards for a given route? According to Boeing the capacity (I know its not weight) is 8 125 inch pallets and 20 LD3s. According to Airbus a typical capacity of the A380 is 7 125 inch pallets and 16 LD3s.

[liam4393]

Does anyone know roughly when EK flights for September 2014 will be released for sale? Many thanks

[Channex258]

MXP-JFK to commence 1st October 2013
Taken from another site :

- dep. MXP 16:00 - arr. JFK 19:00 EK205 daily
- dep. JFK 22:20 - arr. MXP 12:15 EK206 daily

flights obviously originating and terminating to/from DXB

Boeing 777-300ER to be used.

[j636]

DXB-ARN from 4 September with B773ER daily.

Emirates to Start Services to Stockholm Dubai Chronicle (http://www.dubaichronicle.com/2013/04/11/emirates-to-start-services-to-stockholm/)

[Seljuk22]

MXP-JFK to commence 1st October 2013
Taken from another site :

- dep. MXP 16:00 - arr. JFK 19:00 EK205 daily
- dep. JFK 22:20 - arr. MXP 12:15 EK206 daily

flights obviously originating and terminating to/from DXB

Boeing 777-300ER to be used.

One of the 3 daily flights DXB-MXP will be extended to JFK.

JFK will be 2 daily A380 (nonstop) + daily B77W (via MXP).
DXB-MXP will stay at 3 daily.

[chaps2011]

So really less seats for Milan

Chaps

[VickersVicount]

Who in there right mind would go via MXP if they can go direct when the prices are broadly similar ? For that reason can't see MXP having a significant reduction in seats actually being available.

[Seljuk22]

Just a quick update regarding the current EK fleet

31 x A380-800 (59 on order)
87 x B777-300ER (64 on order)
12 x B777-300
6 x B777-200ER
3 x B777-200
10 x B777-200LR
10 x A340-500
6 x A340-300
23 x A330-200


EK SkyCargo
4 x B747-400F
8 x B777-200F

200 aircrafts in total.

[Bagso]

Dubai - Manchester - USA would work !

...those who use EK Eastbound especially First/Business would jump at the chance to use a westbound service with same levels of service.

[GEB74]

Bagso - Maybe APD hurts the sums too much for it to look a profit priority for EK.
My understanding is that passengers flying THROUGH any potential stop in the UK don't attract APD. However, any passenger flying just MAN to USA or vice-versa would of course attract APD just as they would on any existing carrier.
I tend to agree that the EK brand would work wonderfully MAN to USA point to point.
Not so sure it would work very well the other way round. EK really is not a massive brand in much of the US.
Interesting theoretical question is without the burden of APD putting many carriers off launching new routes in and out of the UK, would EK or QR already have launched a flight like this instead of from other non APD burdened countries??

[Seljuk22]

rumours of new transatlantic routes (flights will start from DXB):

CPH-SEA
CDG-LAX
MAD-EZE
LIS-GIG

[lederhosen]

I must have missed something. Why should a non european carrier get additional traffic rights from europe to north america? They can tech stop where they like of course. But picking up pax in Man or Cdg that did not originate in Dubai, how likely is it that they have all these agreements?

[Capetonian]

Fifth freedom rights such as this are not uncommon, although normally the government granting them would want something in return.

[lederhosen]

I know what fifth freedom rights are. I am just surprised by some (actually most) of the suggested routes. Cdg to Lax for example? I am not doubting that in a free market passengers would book in droves. But France and the USA allowing Emirates to compete on this route would be news.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Dubai - Manchester - USA would work !

...those who use EK Eastbound especially First/Business would jump at the chance to use a westbound service with same levels of service."

You make the assumption that EK would have rights to carry pax between MAN and points in the USA.

Can't see the UK and USA govts agreeing to this!

[pwalhx]

They are quite happy for PK to do it, so why not?

[lederhosen]

You have got to be joking pwalhx. If you think that Emirates is going to be able to negotiate these rights because PIA have them you are misinformed. PIA would probably be the first to object followed by BA, Virgin and just about every US airline.

[Bagso]

The Davies Commission is currently looking at this whole area as well as bilateral agreements !

Airline A, a Foreign airline applies for Shanghai - Manchester

Airlines B and C based in UK want reciprocal rights BUT want them from London as they have no interest in Manchester.

Airline A has a rethink they don't want to end up with a "regional flight" whilst Airlines B + C end up operating from the UK Capital.

Result ; Airline A backtracks !

Manchester which can support the service loses out ....and so it goes on and on and on................due domination of UK airlines at Heathrow !:ugh:

[Skipness One Echo]

Airline A has a rethink they don't want to end up with a "regional flight" whilst Airlines B + C end up operating from the UK Capital.
What's your moan this time? Airline A applied for MAN not knowing it was regional? Why must some people always link MAN with London. BOAC trying to stop all and sundry serving MAN and PIK then leaving both in the lurch is hardly relevant in today's market. Bang your head all you like it's not domination for fun and giggles it's domination due to a massive market in one of only three proper world cities.
BA and Virgin would object, for sure.
American, US, Delta and United might also object against A380s on their own turf, mainly as EK would pinch a fair whack of the point to point market putting a dent in their profitability.

[chaps2011]

Skipness I don`t think that quite was what Bagso had said, from what I read he was saying airline A wanted Manchester whilst airline B the British airline wanted reciprocal rights but from London as they are not interested in Manchester but airline A says it is not fair that they cannot have London as they want a level playing field.
Hope that makes sense

Chaps

[lederhosen]

Having dusted off the old memory cells I do remember reading an article about Peter Hill and the early days of Emirates. The airline took advantage of the fact that Dubai had an enormous number of reciprocal traffic rights granted at a time when Alitalia, BOAC and many others stopped off there on the way to the far east. Obviously nobody expected Emirates to develop the way it did. But if they really have these traffic rights then things are going to get very interesting.

[crewmeal]

And good luck to them. Emirates have proved they are a reliable carrier who has built up loyality in the UK where BA have failed in the regions. I'm sure BA would have not pulled out of the regions had they known the growth was as positive as it has been. Emirates are catering for a Country not a capital. They offer an excellent range of services from within Australia and the UK along with expansion in South Africa. The home grown carriers don't.

I would love to see Emirates offer 5th freedom rights from UK airports, but the problem is people like Branson would cry foul as they always do when threatened with competition. Interesting times for EY & QR as well. They are following in EK's footsteps as well eyeing up various UK options. Lets hope they commit themselves to more UK expansion.

[Bagso]

What's your moan this time? Airline A applied for MAN not knowing it was regional? Why must some people always link MAN with London.

er hang on Skippy !

I think you have hit the nail on the head yourself, why indeed is there this linkage between Manchester with London.

Why is not an open and free market, because BA and to a certain extent VS want to operate from their principal base , I totally get that but why does Manchester consistently have to be the the pawn in this !

Bilaterals s/b negotiated on a like for like basis should they not , if an airline wants a Manchester service it has diddly squat to do with London. Surely you cannot be advocating a level of protectionism for BA and more recently a VS shuttle service ?

Look at the down side, extra flights at LHR, more pollution.

You are right, why can we not have a situation where the foreign Airline A is given rights which are also "offered" to BA and VS FROM MANCHESTER on a like for like basis ?

IF they have no interest then as you point out yourself why on earth is this anything to do with some form of contra rights from the London market ?

If Airline A the foreign airline want to operate, it is a comercial investment for them to do so. BA and VS can be offered equal rights "From Manchester" OR of course, regional rights to a destination within the foreigns airlines country from LHR.

Just because they don't happen to have a base at Manchester OR do not want to compete is quite frankly there look out is it not ?

[EI-BUD]

a level playing field


If Emirates are to get rights to fly UK to say the US, will they be subject to the same regulations toward passengers? Call to mind Volcanic Ash cloud.
My feeling is that they EK or any other airline for that matter shouldn't be allowed to compete in the market without being subject to the same regulatory environment. Granting 5th freedom routes should come with conditions.

They could certainly do a good job in developing the US routes from the regions just as they have to/from Dubai and onwards.

[Capetonian]

If Emirates are to get rights to fly UK to say the US, will they be subject to the same regulations toward passengers?

I think they would be. I believe that 261/2004 applies to EU carriers but also to any flight to or from an EU airport.

[Skipness One Echo]

It ought to be an open market IMHO. The old bilaterals are from the dark ages of regulation. Thing is, if EK put an A388 on DXB-MAN-USA, I suspect they'd do well. They'd take point to point traffic to such an extent it would likely endanger existing US connectivity. Nothing's free alas.

As to MAN elsewhere, it should have nothing to do with London.

[North West]

If carriers were being denied opportunities to make money from MAN or anywhere else, they'd be making a noise and lobbying hard. There's very little sabre rattling in relation to access to MAN. APD and Heathrow capacity is where the energy is currently.

[Bagso]

Northwest

...er they are !

Have a look at the transport Committee minutes (video). Ironically there are a number of NWest based MPs on the committee, (Graham Stringer / and a female whose name escapes me), they have raised this at EVERY meeting !

Re EK yes point taken Skippy it might, but Manchester-US traffic has gone backwards in recent years and whilst everybody blames recession it has not gone down at LHR.

In the same timeframe EK have grown a market Eastbound where none previously existed.

A psuedo Emirates(UK) hub at Manchester with East and West traffic flows would be splendid....albeit wishful thinking !

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "They are quite happy for PK to do it, so why not?"

So do AI (though not currently using them) and KU between LHR and JFK.

These 3 carriers do not pose a commercial "threat" to UK and USA carriers.

[North West]

Bagso - I was struggling to find any evidence from the oral or written evidence given by airlines that suggested they would be beating down the door at MAN if bilaterals were abolished. There's a lot to get through however, so please do send me the dates or specific links and I'm happy to be corrected. I did see the evidence from the MAN team and also saw this was contradicted by the CAA, BA and Virgin to various degrees. All parties will be pushing their agendas of course, MAN being no exception.

I also note the lack of corroborating noise in the airline business itself. You do feel this with APD. You do feel this with Heathrow capacity. You do feel the vibes around the pressures due to oil, competition from the Middle Eastern carriers and other "industry issues". MAN and bilaterals is not a hot topic, however much you might wish it to be the case. Logically that suggests the people in charge of deploying scarce capital in the business, think they can make that capital work harder for them at places other than regional UK. If they thought otherwise and barriers were in place, you'd never hear the last of it.

[Bagso]

North West

see details here

Player (http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=12053)

"Two things that would unlock potential"

A) APD framework

B) Bilaterals

Try 1.06 .minutes fwd

[Channex258]

Interesting paragraph from ch-aviation:

Emirates (EK, Dubai International (DXB)) is considering direct flights between Copenhagen Kastrup (CPH) and Seattle Tacoma International (SEA) later this year on the back of its planned direct Milan Malpensa (MXP) - New York John F. Kennedy International (JFK) route due in October. While pundits have speculated about other pairings namely: Dubai International (DXB) to Los Angeles International (LAX) via Paris Charles de Gaulle (CDG), Dubai to Buenos Aires Ezeiza Ministro Pistarini (EZE) via Madrid Barajas (MAD) and Dubai to Rio de Janeiro Galeão Antônio Carlos Jobim International (GIG) via Lisbon Portela de Sacavem (LIS), Emirates' outgoing vice-chairman Sir Maurice Flanagan, in an interview with True Capitalist Radio, specifically mentioned a Copenhagen - Seattle pairing as a strong future candidate given the route's documented traffic potential. However, a prerequisite for establishing a Copenhagen - Seattle route will be the doubling of Emirates' current daily flights to the Danish capital, which has yet to happen. SAS Scandinavian Airlines (SK, Copenhagen Kastrup (CPH)) flew the route for over 40 years before axing it in 2009 as a result of extensive cost-cutting measures.

[Skipness One Echo]

So this is a change of focus from being a one stop airline for Europe going East to Asia going West to a proper world force airline looking at dominance?

They've already dented business for European legacies going East and to Africa and now they've planted their tanks firmly on the lawn of Europe - America. If they can offer their frequent fliers the same level of service going West then why not? This is *potentially* game changing as they could start to pick off the weaker Euro legacies one by one. 100+ A380s have to be deployed somewhere.

[Channex258]

Well, If when you look at what Emirates could potentially be up against with these routes.....

lots of competition on MAD-EZE (IB,UX,AR) where as CDG-LAX,LIS-GIG and CPH-SEA have one carrier with the monopoly (or none at all with Copenhagen Seattle)

If they're after the local traffic only, they could pull some of the Iberia faithful away from MAD-EZE and fill up the back of the cabin with cheap fares for VFR. Product wise they blow all the carriers on that specific route out of the water.

I can't see any of them being viable alternatives for transiting from DXB/Asia/OZ, although the DXB-EZE stops in Rio.

Skipness is right they clearly want world dominance!

[SWBKCB]

But only if they can get the rights - why would the US licence CPH-SEA to EK?

[Fairdealfrank]

EK still need several 5th freedom arrangements, it can't be done on the USA/EU open skies agreements. May be easier said than done.

[Channex258]

These are only speculated, the comments were made by an out going vice-chairman as well. But the aggressive growth of Emirates in the last few years if anyone is going to give it a crack, it's going to be them. The flop that was HAM-JFK in the past and now MXP-JFK indicates its something their interested in.
Only time will tell i suppose.

Channex258

[Bagso]

I speculated a few years back that an Emirates (UK) would be splendid for Manchester !

Whilst that might still come to pass EK could they divest into a UK paper airline and gain rights that way...?

Manchester already has 3 a day East

Personally I would take a chance on 3 a day West !

[Seljuk22]

27th October 2013:

new daily flight to HKG with A332 (B77W from 1st February)
2nd daily A380 flight to BKK

in total
5 daily to BKK:
double daily A380 (one daily onwards to HKG) + double daily B77W (one daily onwards to SYD-CHC) + daily B773 (3 daily nonstop DXB-BKK)

4 daily to HKG:
daily A380 (via BKK) + daily B77W + 5 weekly B77W/2 weekly A380 + daily A332 (3 daily nonstop DXB-HKG)
Emirates increases South East Asia capacity | Emirates United Arab Emirates (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=1203470&offset=0)

[Businesstraveller]

Article in Saturday's Guardian about poor costumer service from Emirates and even worse public relations:

Emirates delayed me for 24 hours on flight to Sydney | Money | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2013/may/13/emirates-delayed-flight-sydney)

[onyxcrowle]

Any chance of a service to DSA I understand they have a longer term goal for that market.
Dsa over Lba would be better with the longer runways snd better catchment.
plus the new road!

[Flitefone]

Why Emirates and friends will soon reshape American aviation | CAPA - Centre for Aviation (http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/why-emirates-and-friends-will-soon-reshape-american-aviation-109135?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

[Logohu]

EK434/435 DXB-BNE-AKL becomes a daily A380 from 01 October, in place of 77W.

This means Auckland will now see 3x EK A380s a day - one each from Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne.

[Calmcavok]

Any chance of a service to DSA I understand they have a longer term goal for that market.
Dsa over Lba would be better with the longer runways snd better catchment.
plus the new road

Dubai-Doncaster?! A city pairing that has clearly been missed by the network planners! :p

[No RYR for me]

Yeah but that is because they missed the new road! :E

[GayFriendly]

I'm sure DXB-DSA will be launched well ahead of Berlin, Oslo, Budapest, Helsinki and other such small European conurbations who are not yet served by EK ;)

[ATNotts]

Any chance of a service to DSA

I sometimes get the impression that some enthusiasts for their local airports have rather more fanciful ambitions than fans of your average 3rd division football club!

[TSR2]

some enthusiasts for their local airports have rather more fanciful ambitions than fans of your average 3rd division football club!

Who would have dreamt that Wigan Athletic would win the FA Cup other than Wigan supporters ;)

[nigel osborne]

Businesstraveller,

We flew to the Maldives with EK via DXB at 10 abreast seating was a bit tight.

Fantastic ICE so many movies etc, but will probably fly Qatar who operate 9 abreast 77Ws next time then a 321.

Nigel

[Mr Mac]

Ok gents lets give this a little more thought. EK are based in Dubai they currently have little problem filling planes from DXB to USA in my experiance,why put a stop in Western Europe now they do not have to ?. If you are suggesting extending current European bound flights to western hemisphere that's is a different matter, but would strongly suggest that legacy carriers who are based here with political clout will stall / block this. However being devilish would suggest a chink in the armour from a suitably "poor" EU country with no large legacy as staging post, and a LOCO feed to it may work. Turkeys do not vote for Christmas so would suggest strong opposition to let EK in on this basis, but EU appears some what fractured at the moment between N/S and E/W so maybe we will see. By the way I am a very regular EK flyer so would not mind at all if this happened, as US bound flights from northern UK very poor compared to east bound carriers !.

Regards
Mr Mac

[78Whiskey]

Anyone know when the possibility of a double daily to DUB may be announced? Loads and cargo seem pretty full on the route.

I assume when it does go x2 daily that a a330/777W will be used. Any chance of it being an a340?

[PhilW1981]

EK is almost fresh out of A340's, another 2 have been retired recently. Would imagine if DUB were to go double daily it would be 777/330.

[LAX_LHR]

DUB would likely be 2xB777 as the A330/A340 are not long for the EK fleet, and very few routes into Europe use the A330/A340 now.

[Seljuk22]

New A380 routes

1st October DXB-BNE-AKL daily
27th October DXB-BKK daily (EK372/373)
2nd December DXB-LAX daily
1st January DXB-ZRH daily
1st January DXB-HKG daily (EK380/381)

[10 DME ARC]

Just to confirm EK380/1 HKG is returning back to A380 after a break of 4 months.

[Seljuk22]

EK380/381 is currently 2 weekly A380 + 5 weekly B77W; from January it will be a daily A380.

IAH and SFO should also see the A380 in 2014.

Due to DXB runway enhancement EK will cancel the following flights from May 2014 til July 2014:
Emirates Outlines Planned May ? July 2014 Service Reduction | Airline Route ? Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2013/06/23/ek-s14update1/)

[Seljuk22]

1st September
DXB-LUN-HRE from B77W to A343
DXB-CPT (EK772/773) from A343 to B77W

1st January
DXB-WAW from A332 to B773
DXB-KUL (EK344/345) from A332 to B773

15th January
DXB-VIE (EK125/126) from A345 to B77W

Emirates W13 Operation Changes as of 28JUN13 | Airline Route ? Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2013/06/28/ek-w13update5/)

[ssflyer]

Any thoughts on EK starting a new route to Myanmar to compete with the QR daily flight (increased from 3xweekly) and all the others now flying into Yangon?

[Seljuk22]

After increasing to daily flights QR reduced to 3 weekly A319 again. Seems to be not such a successful route.

EK will link Conakry to its existing Dakar flights from 27th October
Emirates to link Conakry to its Dakar Service | News | Emirates United Arab Emirates (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=1272143&offset=0)

Meanwhile the first of 10 A345 has been stored.

[Seljuk22]

27th October DXB-BKK from 5 to 6 daily
16th December DXB-MRU from 2 daily B773 to daily A380 + daily B773
16th January DXB-KBP new daily A345
1st February DXB-BCN from daily B77W to daily A380
1st February DXB-LYS from 5 weekly A345 to 5 weekly B77L

current fleet:

Passenger
35 x A380
89 x B773ER
12 x B773
3 x B772
6 x B772ER
10 x B77L
4 x A343
9 x A345
23 x A332

Cargo
3 x B74F
8 x B77F

[Seljuk22]

Relating to EK:

Traffic UK-UAE increased by over 350,000 passengers in the first half of this year.

UK airport | UAE airport | Pax 2012 H1 | Pax 2013 H1 | change
Glasgow (GLA) Dubai (DXB) 138,403 182,550 +31.9%
Newcastle (NCL) Dubai (DXB) 77,41 192,417 +19.4%
London Heathrow (LHR) Dubai (DXB) 928,805 1,089,606 +17.3%
Manchester (MAN) Abu Dhabi (AUH) 133,307 154,509 +15.9%
London Gatwick (LGW) Dubai (DXB) 299,972 344,675 +14.9%
London Heathrow (LHR) Abu Dhabi (AUH) 267,604 306,461 +14.5%
Manchester (MAN) Dubai (DXB) 328,865 369,525 +12.4%
Birmingham (BHX) Dubai (DXB) 235,820 236,560 +0.3%

Based on current growth rates, Dubai could even become the leading international destination from the UK as early as 2018.

Passenger numbers up 2.6% on international flights from UK airports in 2013H1; Poland and UAE markets growing fast | anna.aero (http://www.anna.aero/2013/07/24/passenger-numbers-up-2-6pc-on-international-flights-from-uk-airports-in-2013-h1/)

[Bartek]

Based on current growth rates, Dubai could even become the leading international destination from the UK as early as 2018.
It's an interesting idea, but in my opinion Emirates would have to look to grow to more UK airports before there is any 'danger' of that being achieved. There is only so much more passenger growth they can get out of the existing six UK airports they fly from.

To give you some idea of the scale of the challenge, the most flown to international destinations from the UK's airport for the calendar year 2012 were:

1. AMSTERDAM 7403338
2. DUBLIN 6874179
3. MALAGA 4289832
4. DUBAI 4222946
5. PALMA DE MALLORCA 4171258
6. ALICANTE 3954048
7. PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE) 3512273
8. TENERIFE (SURREINA SOFIA) 3279187
9. BARCELONA 3198885
10. GENEVA 3099823

Jumping ahead of Malaga may seem realistic in the short term, but EK would have its work cut out to equal AMS and DUB. Let's remember these are massive destinations from the UK with a very healthy spread of airport coverage. If EK looks to diversify a bit in the next few years and add STN, EDI, BRS, CWL, LBA, EMA, BFS etc then maybe, just maybe, they might realise that aim.

[blaggerman]

It's an interesting idea, but in my opinion Emirates would have to look to grow to more UK airports before there is any 'danger' of that being achieved. Don't forget that BA, Virgin, Brunei, and now Qantas are included in those numbers. Emirates capacity increases plus Qantas will probably take it over 5 million for 2013. Also, as the relentless Middle East monsters continue to gobble long haul traffic from the UK and Ireland they will take transit traffic from those Amsterdam and Dublin numbers.

[Bartek]

Also, as the relentless Middle East monsters continue to gobble long haul traffic from the UK and Ireland they will take transit traffic from those Amsterdam and Dublin numbers.
I suppose it should also be noted that AMS and DUB are huge destinations from the UK in their own right, and not merely as transit points. Dubai's stature as a destination has grown recently, but even so the city itself is not the massive draw that Amsterdam and Dublin are for UK travellers. Airlines like TK, QR, EY and others will indeed be looking to draw an increased share of long haul traffic from the UK too, and potentially from EK.

[EI-BUD]

Bartek, amazing stats. The UK government and BA should observe the scale of AMS and what KLM have achieved. Should help them put in perspective the risks associated with LHR standing still. Equally to BA et al reference to keeping domestic flying a focus.

If we knew the proportion of those pax on AMS connecting at AMS would be possible to put metric opposite the value of such business if LHR were to capture some of it in future.

Based on knowing the level of connecting pax it might mean that DUB could be the largest destination when transfer pax are stripped out?

EI-BUD

[EI-A330-300]

The connecting traffic at DUB will be nothing compared to AMS. At most 10% would connect at DUB but I expect its below this and closer to 5 or 6%. Would imagine connections from the UK via AMS would be 40 or 50%.

[VanBosh]

Would the DUB transfer percentage not be higher as it would include ex Dub pax connecting at LHR with EI & BA?

[canberra97]

I dont think we will be seeing Emirates at either BRS or LBA considering their runways lengths just take into account the issue with PK at LBA concerning 777 ops and Thomson with their 767s and 787s at BRS plus EK wont have any 330s in the fleet soon so no suitable aircraft anyway for either of those airports.

Even if a 777 could be operated out of either BRS and LBA without any penalties I still think it would too large an aircraft and would be over kill for the routes.

STN is my bet on the next Emirates UK airport and even more so now MAG is involved it surely has to be announced within the year even if it is cargo ops to start with but it will happen one day.

It has the potential catchment area as we all know of North and East London, the East Midlands and the whole of the Anglia region and especially the Essex crowd so it is only obvious that EK will eventually fly from the three main London airports at some point. :)

[ib26uk]

Emirates to introduce a 2nd daily Dubai - Amsterdam flight operating on a Boeing 777-200LR aircraft - Read on another forum

[Seljuk22]

Emirates to introduce a 2nd daily Dubai - Amsterdam flight operating on a Boeing 777-200LR aircraft - Read on another forum
It's official:
Emirates doubles services to Amsterdam | News | Emirates United Arab Emirates (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=1296883&offset=0)

EK celebrates 5 years of A380
Emirates? A380 Cruises into 5th Anniversary | News | Emirates United Arab Emirates (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=1298917&offset=0)

360-degree virtual journey of A380
Emirates A380 | Our Fleet | The Emirates Experience | Emirates (http://www.emirates.com/english/flying/our_fleet/emirates_a380/emirates_a380.aspx?cid=global-fb_emirates_a380-aug_1-traffic-link)

[Heathrow Harry]

the real point is that Emirates are steadily increasing their services into UK regional airports whereas BA are cutting back

Apart from LHR any of the airports currently served by Emirates can take another service per day or they can just up the size of the aircraft - at LHR it just means more A380's

I guess most interlining traffic at Amsterdam is Europe/N African bound, Paris Africa , Madrid, S America whilst Dubai is steadliy becoming the main choice if you are heading into Asia & the Middle East

[Seljuk22]

5th November: Sialkot 4 weekly A332
Emirates announces its fifth route to Pakistan | News | Emirates Deutschland (http://www.emirates.com/de/german/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=1304102&offset=0)

10th February: Taipei 6 weekly B77W
Emirates announces passenger services to Taipei | News | Emirates Deutschland (http://www.emirates.com/de/german/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=1321656&offset=0)

[Seljuk22]

4th December: DXB-KBL daily A345
Emirates to commence daily service to Kabul | News | Emirates Deutschland (http://www.emirates.com/de/german/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=1343885&offset=0)

10th March: DXB-BOS daily B77L
http://www.emirates.com/de/german/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=1349769&offset=0


upcoming changes:

1st October
new: MXP-JFK daily B77W (MXP and JFK each 3 daily)
new: DXB-CLK daily B77L
DXB-MEL-AKL daily B77W > A380
DXB-GIG-EZE daily B77L > B77W
DXB-MAD daily B77W > B77L
DXB-VCE from 2 daily A332 to daily B77W (2-class)
DXB-DAR daily B77W (2-class) > A332
DXB-NBO daily B772 > A332

27th October
new: DXB-BKK add daily B772 (6 daily in total)
new: DXB-HKG add daily A332 (3 daily in total)
DXB-BKK daily B77W > A380
DXB-ATH daily B773 > A332
DXB-MXP daily A332 > B773
DXB-LED daily A332 > B773

5th November
new: DXB-SKT 4 weekly A332

1st December
DXB-CLK daily B77L > B77W

2nd December
DXB-LAX daily B77W > A380

4th December
new: DXB-KBL daily A345
new: DXB-AMS add daily B77L (twice daily in total)
DXB-HAM daily B77L > B77W

16th December
DXB-MRU daily B773 > A380

1st January
DXB-ZRH daily B77W > A380
DXB-HKG 5 weekly B77W + 2 weekly A380 > daily A380
DXB-NCE daily B773 > B77W
DXB-WAW daily A332 > B773
DXB-KUL daily A332 > B773

15th January
DXB-VIE 6 weekly A345 > B77W

16th January
new: DXB-KBP daily A345

1st February:
DXB-BCN daily B77W > A380
DXB-HKG daily A332 > B77W
DXB-MAD daily B77L > B77W
DXB-LYS 5 weekly A345 > B77L
DXB-NBO daily A332 > A345

10th February
new: DXB-TPE 6 weekly B77W

1st March
DXB-SEA daily B77L > B77W

10th March
new: DXB-BOS daily B77L

[Seljuk22]

1st December
DXB-LAD from 3 weekly to daily B77W

30 March
DXB-HKG daily B77W > A380 (DXB-HKG trice daily A380 + daily B77W)
DXB-MUC daily B773 > A380 (DXB-MUC double daily A380)

1st May
DXB-BKK daily B773 > A380 (DXB-BKK 3 daily A380 + 3 daily B77W)
DXB-PRG daily B773 > B77W
DXB-ATH daily A332/A345 > B77W
DXB-ALG daily A332 > A343

1st June
DXB-CDG 6 weekly B77W > A380 (DXB-CDG 20 weekly A380)

21st July
DXB-CPT daily A343 > B77W (DXB-CPT twice daily B77W)

1st August
DXB-AMS daily B77L > B77W (DXB-AMS daily A380 + daily B77W

1st October
DXB-MXP daily B773 > B77W (DXB-MXP twice daily B77W + daily B773)



EK annonce order for 150 B777X (+50 options) and additional 50 A380 at Dubai Airshow today.
Emirates orders 50 additional A380s, boosting fleet to 140*| Airbus News & Events (http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-events-single/detail/emirates-orders-50-additional-a380s-boosting-fleet-to-140/)
Boeing Launches 777X with Record-Breaking Orders and Commitments - Nov 17, 2013 (http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2013-11-17-Boeing-Launches-777X-with-Record-Breaking-Orders-and-Commitments)

[nigel osborne]

Heathrow Harry,

Yes BHX could take a 3rd service the load factors on the 2 at present are now consistently over 82%.

However it may get an A380 before then, although that would hit cargo.

Of course if another carrier started from BHX (Qatar said they want to fly from BHX) then could scupper any EK increase although another carrier would be prefereable.

[chaps2011]

Nigel
When Qatar and Etihad came to Manchester it actually made Emirates grow faster as they competed

[CabinCrewe]

At GLA Mid 80's LF on double daily with First Class versus mid 60's on once daily 2 class at NCL, one presumes any further northern regional expansion will be at GLA ? Not sure if they'd go A380 / 2 class 777 or add a third frequency. An Emirates lounge is currently being built at GLA.

[MathFox]

For the hub-and-spoke operation Emirates has it makes sense to fly with bigger planes on the high-demand routes. Add slot restrictions at major destinations and growing by flying bigger planes becomes the easiest solution.

[nigel osborne]

Chaps2011

Yes noticed that Qatar Etihad and Emirates were all up again out of MAN last month.

Think we still have a shout at getting Qatar next year at BHX, to give EK some more competition.

[nigel osborne]

Looking for a job

Think nearly all of EK current A380s and the newly ordered ones are leased. So its more a headache for the leasing company, Doric.

In 10 years their will probably be an A380 NEO with new engines so as EK only want to keep the current ones 12 years who would be interested in the older less efficient model..might have to start scrapping them !

[Dannyboy39]

Yes, I'm sure Doric will have a headache from all the $$$$ they'll be collecting from the maintenance reserves/rent from all those A380s! :ugh:

[nigel osborne]

Dannyboy,

You miss my point, that being it will be up to Doric to find homes for a large number of older A380s, who will want them ?

[HH6702]

Ryanair may take then

How many could he fit into them.
Problem is not many airports Ryanair fly Into could handle the aircraft

[Seljuk22]

1st December
DXB-ALG daily A332 > A345
DXB-TUN daily A345 > A332


1st January
DXB-DAR daily A332 > B773


1st August
DXB-KRT daily A332 > A345


slot requests:

1st March:
DXB-PER daily A380 (current flight change from B77W to A380)

30th March:
second daily DXB-VCE

from 1st August
DXB-BRU daily
DXB-OSL daily
third daily DXB-FCO

DXB-BUD (without start date)

[EK77WNCL]

Lookin' good for EK! How about Kathmandu???

[falconeasydriver]

However it may get an A380 before then, although that would hit cargo.

My understanding from an Ops point of view is that in order for the 380 to operate in an out of BHX, the airport is effectively closed to other movements whilst the 380 is in motion, obstacle clearance being an issue.
How the runway extension will affect things I'm not sure, but the current taxiway layout is problematic.

[rutankrd]

Lookin' good for EK! How about Kathmandu???

Its already served from DXB under the FlyDubai brand as its considered low yield territory.

With the current exclusion of Heavy wide bodies in the mountain airport not going to happen anyway.

[Joe Curry]

any further northern regional expansion will be at GLA

The newly announced Doha flight from EDI might stagnate any further EK
expansion ?

[SWBKCB]

Stagnate? Somebody will need to explain the concept to them first...

[Skipness One Echo]

The newly announced Doha flight from EDI might stagnate any further EK expansion ? Would it really kill you to just be pleased for EDI rather than continually booting the other guy in the balls?
Rouge, US Airways, more United flights than any British Isles airport outside of LHR and now Qatar yet all you've got is EDI v GLA? Come on man it's not 1977 anymore!

[Joe Curry]

Stagnate? Somebody will need to explain the concept to them first...

Self-explanatory surely, arrested development caused by competition...
Not a new concept...:rolleyes:

[Joe Curry]

booting the other guy in the balls?

My turn? :-)

[Ringwayman]

arrested development caused by competition...

you mean like at MAN where EK, EY and QR all record increased passengers numbers despite operating up to a combined total of 6 times per day?

[LAX_LHR]

you mean like at MAN where EK, EY and QR all record increased passengers
numbers despite operating up to a combined total of 6 times per day?


Its actually up to 7 per day (3 EK+2 EY+2 QR on some days).


Would it really kill you to just be pleased for EDI rather than continually
booting the other guy in the balls?


I don't think its in his making to be even remotely positive about GLA, so your probably wasting your time trying to reason with him.

[EK77WNCL]

Regarding Kathmandu, what is this about the widebody ban? What are Thai, Korean and Air Asia X doing? They operate 777's and A330's to KTM.

And EK/FZ operate many of the same routes, they are separate airlines.

[EK77WNCL]

Does anybody know the status of EK's wifi? All A380's and 777's were supposed to have it by about now, or be well on the way, but AFAIK, new 777's aren't being delivered with it. A380's are.

[Centre cities]

Perhaps you should ask them.

Centre cities

[Seljuk22]

Planned change on the WAW route from daily A332 to B773 starting 01JAN was cancelled.

15JAN VIE 6 weekly A345 > B77W (in total: 13 weekly B77W)

NEW: 16JAN KBP daily A345

01FEB
BCN daily B77W > A380
MAD daily B77L > B77W (in total: 2 daily B77W)
LYS 5 weekly A345 > B77L
NBO daily A332 > A345 (in total: 2 daily A345)

NEW: 10FEB TPE 6 weekly B77W

01MAR
SEA daily B77L > B77W
HKG daily A343 > B77W
HKT daily B77W > A343 (due to high demand HKT was served with B77W since 01DEC)

NEW: 10MAR BOS daily B77L

30MAR
MUC daily B77W > A380 (in total: 2 daily A380)
LGW daily B77W > A380 (in total: 2 daily B77W + daily A380)
HKG daily B77W > A380 (in total: 3 daily A380 + daily B77W)
LED daily B773 > B77L
LCA-MLA 4 weekly B772 > B773
MLA-TIP 3 weekly B772 > B773
TPE 6 weekly > daily B77W

01MAY
BKK daily B773 > A380 (in total: 3 daily A380 + 3 daily B77W)
PRG daily B773 > B77W
ATH daily A332/A345 > B77W
LIS daily B77L > B77W
CLK daily B77W > B77L

01JUN CDG 6 weekly B77W > A380 (in total: 20 weekly A380)

01JUL DKR-CKY 4 weekly A343 > B77W

20JUL CLK daily B77L > B77W
22JUL TUN daily A332 > A343/A332
24JUL DKR-CKY 4 weekly > 5 weekly B77W

01AUG
AMS daily B77L > B77W (in total: daily A380 + daily B77W)
GVA daily B77L > B77W
AMD daily A332 > B772 (in total: daily B772 + 3 weekly A332)
KRT daily A332 > A345
EBB daily A345 > A332

01SEP LED daily B77L > B77W

01OCT MXP daily B773 > B77W (in total: 2 daily B77W + daily B773)

01DEC CPT daily A343 > B77W (in total: 2 daily B77W)


Rumoured launches of OSL, BRU and BUD in Europe as well as ORD and MIA this year.


In 2013 13 A380, 8 B77W and 3 B77F joined the fleet.
8 destinations (Warsaw, Algiers, Tokyo (Haneda), Stockholm, Clark, Conakry, Sialkot, Kabul) were launched.
In total EK counted more than 43 million passengers in 2013.

In 2014 further 13 A380 and aprox 15 B77W will join the fleet.

[Machspeed]

I heard the plan was for no more upgrades this year (2014) for the Boeing. Moving over A332 Capts to 777. Canceled all 40 of the Capts from the Boeing that were going to the A380.

I know everything always changes here, but if we are not going to get rid of the older 777s as the plan was, then they will have to upgrade with 15 new airplanes this year.

Any news or rumors ??:confused:

[chinapattern]

Emirates have finally announced ORD! Begins 5th August


EK235 DXB0945 - 1525ORD 77L D
EK236 ORD2305 - 1910+1DXB 77L D

[Seljuk22]

30MAR
MUC daily B77W > A380 (in total: 2 daily A380)
LGW daily B77W > A380 (in total: 2 daily B77W + daily A380)
HKG daily B77W > A380 (in total: 3 daily A380 + daily B77W)
LCA-MLA 4 weekly B772 > B773
MLA-TIP 3 weekly B772 > B773
TPE 6 weekly > daily B77W

01MAY
BKK daily B773 > A380 (in total: 3 daily A380 + 3 daily B77W)
PRG daily B773 > B77W
ATH daily A332/A345 > B77W
LIS daily B77L > B77W
CLK daily B77W > B77L

01JUN
CDG 6 weekly B77W > A380 (in total: 20 weekly A380)
WAW daily A332 > B772

01JUL DKR-CKY 4 weekly A343 > B77W

20JUL CLK daily B77L > B77W
22JUL TUN daily A332 > A343/A332
24JUL DKR-CKY 4 weekly > 5 weekly B77W

01AUG
new: KAN-ABV daily A345
DME daily B77W > A380 (in total: double daily A380)
AMS daily B77L > B77W (in total: daily A380 + daily B77W)
GVA daily B77L > B77W
AMD daily A332 > B772 (in total: daily B772 + 3 weekly A332)
KRT daily A332 > A345
EBB daily A345 > A332
ATH daily B77W > daily B77W + daily A332
LCA-MLA 4 weekly B773 > daily A332
MLA-TIP 3 weekly B773 > daily A345

05AUG new: ORD daily B77L

01SEP DUB daily B77W > double daily B77W

02SEP new: OSL daily B77W

01OCT
MXP daily B773 > B77W (in total: 2 daily B77W + daily B773)
PER daily B77W > B77L (in total: 2 daily B77W + daily B77L)

26OCT
WAW daily B772 > B77W

01DEC
SEZ 12 weekly A345 > B77L
CPT daily A343 > B77W (in total: 2 daily B77W)
HKT daily A343 > B77W
KBP daily A345 > A343

01JAN KAN-ABV daily A345 > B77W

[Seljuk22]

EK will pulling out of Clark (launched last October) from 3rd May. 3 daily flights to Manila remain unchanged.

[Seljuk22]

Due to the Ebola outbreak EK will cancel its flights to Conakry from 8th April
Operational Update | About Emirates | Emirates United Arab Emirates (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/operational_updates/operational_updates.aspx)

Dallas will get the A380 from 1st October
Emirates Brings the World?s Largest Passenger Aircraft to Dallas/Fort Worth | Emirates United Arab Emirates (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=1621417&offset=0)

Mauritius will see the A380 double daily eff 1st December

[EK77WNCL]

Does anyone know when and where Emirates will announce their 2013 financials etc, year ending 31/03/2014? I was under the assumption it would have been announced then but I can't find anything anywhere.

[Seljuk22]

EK financial review
Emirates Group Announces 26th Consecutive Year of Profit | News | Emirates Deutschland (http://www.emirates.com/de/german/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=1653152&offset=3)

Kiev will be cancelled eff. 2nd August.

Operation changes/new routes

16th July: KWI daily A380
21st July BOM daily A380

1st August:
KHI: 6th daily flight
SIN: 5th daily flight
AMM: 3rd daily flight
KAN-ABJ: new daily flight A345
BOS: B77L > B77W
GIG-EZE: B77W > B77L
AMS: B77L > B77W
GVA: B77L > B77W
AMD: A332 > B772
MLA-TIP: 4 weekly > daily
LCA-MLA: 3 weekly > daily
NBO: A345 > B773

5th August: ORD new daily B77L
29th August: DME 77W > A380

1st September:
FRA: 77W > A380
DUB: 2nd daily flight

2nd September: OSL new daily B77W
5th September: BRU new daily B77L

1st October:
DFW: B77L > A380
MXP: B773 > B77W
PER: B77W > B77L

26th October:
JNB: 4th daily flight
SEZ: 12 weekly > double daily
WAW: B772 > B77W

1st December:
DOH: 7th daily flight
KWI: 6th daily flight
BAH: 4th daily flight
MCT: 3rd daily flight
SFO: B77W > A380
MRU: B773 > A380
SIN: B773 > B77W
CPT: A343 > B77W
HKT: A343 > B77W

3rd December: IAH B77W > A380
7th December: BRU B77L > B77W
1st January: KAN-ABJ A345 > B77W
1st February: KUL B77W > A380


50th A380 was delivered a few days ago
Emirates has received its 50th A380 aircraft, strengthening its position as the world’s largest international airline.
This latest delivery takes Emirates’ all wide-body fleet to 224 aircraft, representing the world’s largest fleet of A380s, and also the world’s largest fleet of Boeing 777s.
Since April 2010, Emirates has received 96 aircraft (all A380s and Boeing 777s), increasing its overall capacity by 64% in ATKMs and 71% in ASKMs, while consistently maintaining seat load factors of close to 80%. During this period, Emirates also added 48 cities to its global destination network.
Moving forward, we will see quite a ramp up in the delivery programme and by late 2017 we will have around 90 A380s in our fleet to support existing and new A380 routes
Emirates takes milestone delivery of 50th A380 aircraft | Emirates United Arab Emirates (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=1743705&offset=0)

26th October
JNB 4th daily (all B77W)
FCO 3rd daily B773 (double daily A380 + daily B773)
SEZ from 12 weekly A345 to double daily A345
DAR from daily to 12 weekly A332 (daily B773 + 5 weekly A332)
MRU from daily A380+B773 to double daily A380
CMN from daily B77W+A345 to double daily B77W
SGN reduced from daily B772 to daily A343

27th October
NEW: BUD daily A332

1st December
SFO from daily B77W to daily A380
DME reduced from daily A380 to daily B773 (daily B77w + daily B773)
MXP from daily B773 to daily A380 (daily A380 + double daily B77W)
CPT from daily A343 to daily B77W (double daily B77W)
HKT from daily A343 to daily B77W
NBO from daily A345 to daily A332 (daily B773 + daily A332)
DOH 7th daily
KWI 7th daily
BAH 4th daily
MCT 3rd daily

3rd December
IAH from daily B77W to daily A380

1st January
DAR from 12 wekly to double daily (daily B773 + daily A332)

1st February
KUL from daily B773 to daily A380 (daily A380 + double daily B77W + daily B773)
BRU from daily B77L to daily B77W
SEZ from daily A345 to daily B77L (daily A345 + daily B77L)


current fleet

53 x A380 (87 on order)
99 x B77W (52 on order + 115 B779 + 35 B778)
12 x B773
3 x B772 (2-class)
6 x B772ER
10 x B77L
4 x A343
9 x A345
21 x A332
2 x B747F
11 x B77F

[mhk77]

Emirates to launch daily flights to Bucharest using A330-200.

EK113 Dep DXB @ 0755 Arr OTP @ 1225
EK114 Dep OTP @ 1605 Arr DXB @ 2230

[Thewigmoreman]

I've heard from very close sources at LTN that emirates will start operating a daily a330 route from 2015.

[adfly]

That seems odd to me, I'd have thought EK would choose STN before LTN primarily due to the longer runway and better terminal facilities. Since the A330's are slowly on the way out along with the 772's this does not make much sense, as I doubt EK could carry a decent load to DXB on a 77W from LTN? STN also has airbridges and a new premium lounge which I would have thought could help swing it in the favour of them.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out (if it does at all).

[Thewigmoreman]

I agree, it was hard to believe when I was being told, but the new owners are trying to bring in more routes to places in the Middle East, a route to Erbil has been launched and they want to get routes with Qatar etc, but these aren't really on the radar ATM. Also, emirates are close to launching the route because they are getting rid of the a330 in 2022 so it would be a shorter term route anyway.

[FRatSTN]

I don't believe it for one second. Regardless of what others or I myself may be perceived to think when it comes down to LTN or STN and "which airport is better" blah blah blah... STN is arguably the better choice for them. I would be staggered if they went for LTN over STN for similar reasons that adfly has pointed out although the aviation industry will never stop surprising us.

[AirportPlanner1]

I would agree with FRatSTN, and in my view the improvements at STN point to realistic expectation from the owners that long haul amongst other services can be sought.

STN makes better sense from a catchment point of view ie reaching further into East Anglia and East London, and also Cambridge of course. As noted, LTN is in closer proximity to two existing EK catchments.


I could see EK adding a new London airport if they want to grow. LHR slots aren't readily available without great cost, which leaves either adding even more services at LGW or trying to grow the market even more by spreading elsewhere


If EK are in 'serious discussions' with LTN, I would suspect it is purely to leverage a better deal from STN.

[pwalhx]

I too am puzzled why EK would want to operate from a third London airport.

[AirportPlanner1]

pwalhx, is it that surprising? There are a few examples of airlines operating from three or even four London airports, operating some of the same popular routes from each (BA, EZY, FR, TOM for example), DXB can definitely be considered a popular route (plus of course the connections) and EK a big name with massive promotional reach through their various ads and sponsorships, so why not three airports?

[Thewigmoreman]

I wasn't told that the negotiations with STN aren't still in regress, it is just luton is apparently look to expand as part of its new plan under AENA, and the Middle East is a target area, as shown by Atlas jets expansion into the east. I believe that the competition is still fierce and was told that LTN is offering a very good contract, with quite a few relevant north London catchments for the route, but I wasn't told if Emirates were just using it to leverage a better deal with STN, or if the route is guaranteed, all I know is that it is on the cards and LTN are serious about hopefully making it happen.

[FRatSTN]

Thewigmoreman


So when you initially posted:


I've heard from very close sources at LTN that emirates will start operating a daily a330 route from 2015.
What you were meant to say was that LTN are talking with EK so is a chance that they may start some flights at some point in the future.


Edit: And now looking at the Luton thread there is fierce competition with STN. Potentially making it less likely?

[Thewigmoreman]

I was told that the route is nearly there, due to LTNs very good offer, but I cannot guarantee that it has yet been confirmed, it is in the pipeline, and if Stansted cannot put up a better offer, I presume it will go to LTN, but no guarantees.

[FRatSTN]

Well one thing that I have always done and always will do is never to rule anything out unless I have irrefutable proof to do so. So am I not ruling out any prospects of EK coming to LTN but I personally do find it very hard to believe they would choose LTN over STN.


If operating from LTN restricts them to an A330 or even potentially put a limit on how long they can viably operate the route for, I don't see any commercial logic in even starting it regardless of any offers made.


This is not me having a dig at LTN or acting as a STN fan boy/supporter of any form but what STN can and will provide for EK flights if they were to operate from there in future in terms of facilities and infrastructure wipes the floor with what LTN could offer, certainly on any shorter term prospects.


I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens (if anything) in the future.

[pamann]

I would expect an announcement re: Emirates DXB-STN soon. It is the logical next route launch in the UK.

DXB-LTN :=

[LTNman]

I personally do find it very hard to believe they would choose LTN over STN

I agree but if someone told me 3 years ago that El Al would operate out of Luton and would use 777's for some of their services I would have said they were mad.

[Buster the Bear]

How about VIP only like Silverjet once operated? They do have an A319CJ.

[crewmeal]

Here you are Buster...

Emirates Executive ? Airbus A319 Private Jet Charter Service (http://www.emirates-executive.com/english/index.asp)

[tonytales]

Airbus loses $16 billion worth of Emirates business - Fortune (http://fortune.com/2014/06/11/airbus-loses-16-billion-worth-of-emirates-business/?xid=ob_rss)
That is quite a hit to AB. Is the oncoming version of the B777 poaching on the A350 and B787?

[Tight Seat]

Old news. That article is dated June .

[G-CPTN]

Tonight's EK26/UAE26 Glasgow to Dubai flight seems to be following a great circle routing:-
http://www.greatcirclemapper.net/en/great-circle-mapper/route/EGPF-OMDB.html (http://www.greatcirclemapper.net/en/great-circle-mapper/route/EGPF-OMDB.html:-)

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE26

instead of the 'usual' straight line 'direct.

[unusualAtitude]

EGPF-OMDB

Great Circle Mapper (http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=EGPF-OMDB)

[j636]

EK considering hub at Barcelona for American flights. Not sure if its just media hype as it comes days after IB said long haul growth wont happen from BCN.

Sorry forgot the link.

Here: Catalan government confirms Emirates' interest in Barcelona hub - ch-aviation.com (http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/31816-catalan-government-confirms-emirates-interest-in-barcelona-hub)