shall i or shall i not.

[bugdevheli]

Most of us have seen the video of the chap wrecking his helicopter trying to give it a go without the instructor. What is your opinion about the possibilities of someone actually mastering the basics by this go it alone technique and what machine would you suggest:)

[Whirlygig]

Well, it looks like a Schweizer was a pretty good bet as I believe he did survive the incident!

Cheers

Whirls

[Arm out the window]

Most people would wreck it in a minute, I bet, but who can forget the film of the German test pilot, Hanna Reisch, (spelling and quotes probably wrong), working it out for herself:

"I find the position where the wheel does not roll ... I give gasoline ... in 5 minutes, I had it."

[HOGE]

http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Hanna_Reitsch

....She survived many accidents and was badly injured several times.....

Probably the safest way to go it alone in a helicopter would be in one of those childrens' rides outside Woolworths. I believe a Budgie the Helicopter type is available, and 20p should get you about 5 mins useful hands-on time.:}

I did have someone come up to me not so long ago after I had landed in a street on an EMS job and ask whether his helicopter experience on Microsoft Flight Sim would enable him to jump in and fly a real one. I was stuck for a polite answer!:hmm:

[Gas Producer]

I once had a Qantas captain turn up at the school in which I was instructing and tell me he would like to experience hovering a helicopter.

I explained to him we normally like to do a bit upstairs first before getting close to the ground. He told me he had spent a lot of time flying model helicopters and understanding the principles and aerodynamics of rotary flight.

So, I yielded. First pedals, then collective, then cyclic then all together. From the point where I first gave him control of the pedals only to the point where he had full control of the machine was probably no more than 15 minutes, and his hover was rock solid. During the second half of the lesson we did some landings and takeoffs, and I was just as impressed with him on these as I was on the hover.

I think some people have a greater ability to get into the hand-eye stuff than others. No doubt, his 36 years and 19,000 hours of airline experience helped him understand my verbal instructions better than others, but other fixed wing folks I've taught were not a patch on this bloke.

Now, could he have got in to a machine, worked it out for himself and not broken something? No chance. There were things he had not pre-empted that still needed explaining, and NOBODY is ready for the sensitivity of the controls that first lesson.

GP

[topendtorque]

Yes another great fan of the lady right here surely she didn't bend anything? details? must have been mechanical!

a country man of hers once in west OZ about very early 70's i think, had done about two hours ab initio and reckoned he could make good his escape in one (a 47G2 that had been on min-ex if memory is right) after he knocked off the local bank on a weekend.
Hung over gingerbeer turns up to do the old daily trick first thing monday-- where is it?--panic-- looks up-- there is one skid hanging out of the hanger roof-- hmmm-- round the back and there she is all rolled up, no sign of a driver.

Then the local indiginni kids started buying mobs of pushbikes and lollies from from downtown trading post - a small town-- and a story eventually came out of a hitchhiker presented to a hospital several hundred k down the highway who claimed to have been beaten up and robbed, he'd stashed the loot in a road culvert where the kids had found it.

Plods put two and two together and gave instructions to immobilise him, the doc plastered him head to foot, hero woke up he was sprung and pinched a sharp instrument, got out of the cast and the hospital toilet window and never was found.
true story.

[SASless]

Reckon Igor had a lot of dual before flying a helicopter?:confused:

[topendtorque]

no! but unlike current models he had a bowler hat! and I reckoned he put up a real rough riding expo as damm good as any cowboy i've ever seen. i'll bet he would enjoy a stoush too!

[HOGE]

Pedant mode on

Sikorsky wore a Fedora.

Pedant mode off.

[topendtorque]

hart-damm, can't win, us colonials, this bluddy english language- and its meaning's.

[Ian Corrigible]

Don't remember the company involved, but there was a free-flight multi-axis helicopter simulator featured on the UK show Tomorrow's World a number of years back that - allegedly - allowed the basics to be taught in a fraction of the usual time.

http://www.russellengland.com/oldsite/images/helsim.jpg
http://abcasiapacific.com/nexus/images/3ep169_ts_02.jpg

I/C

[Shawn Coyle]

I know a man who taught himself to fly a helicopter - evidently built a popular brand of homebuilt from various parts, added a turbocharger as well. In the piles of bits that he bought to assemble the thing was a book that the manufacturer had put out some time earlier, and failed to find in the recall that was basically - how to teach yourself to fly a helicopter.
Seems you start with the thing tethered down, with some play allowed up/down left/right (about 6" springs to the rapidly failing memory), and allowing the tailboom more lateral movement. When you could pick the thing up, and keep it within the limited freedom, you were allowed to add a bit more freedom, etc.
He said it took him all morning the first time just to get to the point where he was nearly off the ground. Obviously a very cautious type!
When he was comfortable hovering within 18" of slack, he went for a 'trial lesson' on one of the more popular production piston engine machines and astounded the instructor by being able to hover it perfectly.
So it can be done. But definitely not recommended.

[nutcracker43]

I once had a Qantas captain turn up at the school in which I was instructing and tell me he would like to experience hovering a helicopter.
I explained to him we normally like to do a bit upstairs first before getting close to the ground. He told me he had spent a lot of time flying model helicopters and understanding the principles and aerodynamics of rotary flight.
So, I yielded. First pedals, then collective, then cyclic then all together. From the point where I first gave him control of the pedals only to the point where he had full control of the machine was probably no more than 15 minutes, and his hover was rock solid.

Would this Quantas pilot have thinning hair, be/was blond and slightly portly...not shy and retiring in the slightest...if so it sounds like someone I know and has, in fact, about 5000 chopper hours. Initials wouldn't be BL by chance?

NC43

[Cyclic Hotline]

An acquaintance of mine taught himself to fly helicopters in a Sikorsky S52 that he purchased many, many years ago.

He had a fixed wing licence already and coupled with that experience, taught himself to perform running take-offs and landings. He never felt safe:confused: slowing down to the point the machine would hover, so hired an instructor to teach him that part. After mastering his hovering, he completed the requisite flight hours, passed his commercial check ride and never looked back, immediately picking up a commercial flying position.

According to another good friend, there is never any doubt in your mind that he taught himself to fly helicopters, should you have the misfortune to fly with him!;)

[ShyTorque]

Most of us have seen the video of the chap wrecking his helicopter trying to give it a go without the instructor. What is your opinion about the possibilities of someone actually mastering the basics by this go it alone technique and what machine would you suggest:)

Give it a go - but let us know when and where, as my video camera battery takes quite some time to charge up. I would suggest someone else's machine. :E

BTW, please make it somewhere with something nice and solid for us all to hide behind.

[BlenderPilot]

Before you go out I suggest you go out and try some training gear, similar to that remote control helicopters use. :)

[Hidden Agenda]

BP

I have been flying for many years but the length of time I can keep Microsoft Flight Simulator or a Radio Controlled model helicopter airborne is embarrassing.

Do you think it would work any better the other way around? Would it really help?

HA

[Hilico]

1. Experience with MS Flight Sim made a beneficial difference for me, but I had already (many years before) had half an hour in a 206 with SAS (the stability system, not the old bold contributor to this forum).

2. By and large, computer sims are harder than the real thing because of the lack of peripheral vision and the lag - you need almighty computing power to give it true real-time feel in high-gain situations.

[WHK4]

Like SC I remember seeing a book on homebuilt helicopters years ago. I think it was talking about a one place machine.

And I think it did recommend learning how to fly by starting with four 6" tethers to the ground and then gradually increasing the length. Maybe it was the same book.

(At one point it said to never let actual helicopter pilots fly the helicopter untethered because they will not be familiar with the type and almost certainly roll it over.)

But as far as flying untethered helicopters from scratch, without automatic control, for someone to actually succeed I think they would need to bypass the hovering stage entirely, both on takeoff and landing.

Would it be possible to start by pulling max takeoff power and jam in left pedal while still on the ground? Then very quickly on the way up try to stop the yaw before you got too disoriented. At that point you are in a climb and could have time to figure out the basics of flying. Then finish off with a fast run-on landing onto a runway. ....It could work...I bet the workload would be high.

[Flingwing207]

Would it be possible to start by pulling max takeoff power and jam in left pedal while still on the ground? Then very quickly on the way up try to stop the yaw before you got too disoriented. At that point you are in a climb and could have time to figure out the basics of flying. Then finish off with a fast run-on landing onto a runway. ....It could work...I bet the workload would be high.Yep, sounds like a plan!

[Pandalet]

Wouldn't that put you in serious danger of a roll-over?

In an R22, if you lift the collective without the cyclic being properly centred, so that the craft is basically rolling around one skid, there isn't enough cyclic to right the roll - adding more power just makes you go over faster. After last weekend, I know all about this, and it's a mistake I'm never, ever, going to make ever, ever again! :eek::eek::eek:

[slowrotor]

You might teach yourself to hover. But the chance of a rollover is pretty good.
Do not try to land without some instruction, the transition to hover is difficult and more so if you are a fixed wing pilot.

I had about 20 hours on X-Plane simulator so I was able to hover after about 10 minutes of instruction. This will save you most of the time normally spent learning to hover. Without the instructor I would have been in trouble on the first flight. Even rated pilots go up with an instructor in a new ship if possible.

There is much more than just hovering. Get an instructor to give you a demo but make sure you tell him that you want to do all the flying. A half hour should give you some idea.

I know a guy that crashed his rotorway in his backyard. The neighbors were annoyed by the flying parts that landed in there yard. They called the FAA and the fellow was persuaded to take instruction.

[Two's in]

Some years ago now had a Sqn Ldr turn up on an Airborne Forward Air Controllers course at RAF Brawdy who asked for a "cabbie" (he was an ABFAC instructor who usually sat in the back of the Gazelle). Following a refuelling turn around, I rather rashly let him in the front with me, somewhat swayed by his leather flying jacket, nomex growbag, and silk scarf (I kid you not). He said he had some experience on Rotary and was comfortable in the hover.

Looking back on it, the thing that saved me from the subsequent Board of Inquiry was my decision to start in a fairly high hover, rather than the usual couple of feet. After I said, 'follow me through, you have control' my self declared 'student' grabbed the controls in a vice like grip, accelerated us backwards towards Vne, while at the same time trying to push the left pedal out through the front of the perspex (that would be the bad pedal) and getting us up to a very impressive anti-torque spin rate. I finally managed to overcome his grip on the controls, stopped us spinning, and checked the rearwards movement (that's the one where you end up stationary at about 50' with the nose 60 degrees down hoping you only need 49' to recover). I descended, landed and shut down.

He was modest enough to realise he had just nearly killed us both (or at least killed what laughingly passed for a career in my case) and was very apologetic about the whole thing. That was the point where he took off his leather flying jacket and revealed to me on his flying suit the single wing brevet of an Air Electronics Operator! Apparently he was an Ex-Kipper fleet AEO who was dabbling in ABFAC, and he had about as many formal flying qualifications as a retarded frog.

Learned some good lessons from that one:

1. Never check - Always assume!
2. A Leather Jacket is not an adequate substitute for a formal flying course.
3. Flying Helicopters is not intuitive - recovering from unusual positions is even less intuitive.
4. Never trust anyone wearing a slik scarf.

[13snoopy]

Some years ago now had a Sqn Ldr turn up on an Airborne Forward Air Controllers course at RAF Brawdy who asked for a "cabbie" (he was an ABFAC instructor who usually sat in the back of the Gazelle). Following a refuelling turn around, I rather rashly let him in the front with me, somewhat swayed by his leather flying jacket, nomex growbag, and silk scarf (I kid you not). He said he had some experience on Rotary and was comfortable in the hover.
Looking back on it, the thing that saved me from the subsequent Board of Inquiry was my decision to start in a fairly high hover, rather than the usual couple of feet. After I said, 'follow me through, you have control' my self declared 'student' grabbed the controls in a vice like grip, accelerated us backwards towards Vne, while at the same time trying to push the left pedal out through the front of the perspex (that would be the bad pedal) and getting us up to a very impressive anti-torque spin rate. I finally managed to overcome his grip on the controls, stopped us spinning, and checked the rearwards movement (that's the one where you end up stationary at about 50' with the nose 60 degrees down hoping you only need 49' to recover). I descended, landed and shut down.
He was modest enough to realise he had just nearly killed us both (or at least killed what laughingly passed for a career in my case) and was very apologetic about the whole thing. That was the point where he took off his leather flying jacket and revealed to me on his flying suit the single wing brevet of an Air Electronics Operator! Apparently he was an Ex-Kipper fleet AEO who was dabbling in ABFAC, and he had about as many formal flying qualifications as a retarded frog.
Learned some good lessons from that one:
1. Never check - Always assume!
2. A Leather Jacket is not an adequate substitute for a formal flying course.
3. Flying Helicopters is not intuitive - recovering from unusual positions is even less intuitive.
4. Never trust anyone wearing a slik scarf.
A very scary moment for sure but
you should be a writer. Your story made me laugh out loud.

[Two's in]

Thanks snoopy, by a bizarre coincidence 'you should be a writer' is exactly what my first rotary instructor said to me.

TI