To all FI(R)s - Did you know this?

[Whirlybird]

I just did my FI revalidation test a couple of days ago, and was told something very useful. Apparently, the 25 solo sign-offs an FI(R) needs to get rid of the restriction are not 25 flights but 25 exercises. And you can have two exercises per flight. This was mentioned in respect of rotary flying, where it's quite easy to send someone off to practice hovering, then do some circuits, which is two exercises. But the rules concerning restricted FIs are the same for rotary and f/w, so it ought to be possible for f/w flying too. This brings the 25 down to 13 or thereabouts, which makes a lot of difference. I was told all of this by the examiner; I'd never heard of it before, and I suspect a lot of other people hadn't either.

I immediately started working out ways to manage 3-4 exercises per flight - quite easy in helicopter flying, where hovering, hovering sideways and backwards, and spot turns, are all separate exercises. But apparently the CAA won't allow more than two, for some reason best known to them. Still, two is better than one, isn't it.

Just thought some of you might like to know. :ok:

[Mark 1]

JAR–FCL 1.325 FI(A) – Restricted
privileges
(a) Restricted period. Until the holder of a
FI(A) rating has completed at least 100 hours
flight instruction and, in addition, has supervised
at least 25 student solo flights, the privileges of
the rating are restricted. The restrictions will be
removed from the rating when the above
requirements have been met and on the
recommendation of the supervising FI(A).

Hard to see how this can be interpretted the way you describe. I'd be curious to know if you succeed.

[FlyingForFun]

I also can't see how it's possible to interpret the rules the way your examiner has.

Even if it were the case, I can think of very few (fixed wing) solo flights I've supervised which could count as two exercises in any case. Most of my early students don't leave the circuits, so they only do one exercise. Once they leave the circuit solo, my students rarely do more solo circuits before their test. :confused:

FFF
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[Craggenmore]

Is this purely a chopper FI restriction thingy?

In fixed wing, circuits are two exercises 12 (Take off and climb to downwind) and 13 (Approach and landing) and its simply 25 solos of any kind whatever they may be, as Mark 1 states.

[Whirlybird]

Could be purely helicopter. Don't know. Didn't know about it anyway, before last week. I'll look into it and see if I can find out.

[BillieBob]

It's a helicopter thing!
The new text of JAR-FCL 2 Amendment 4, proposed in NPA-FCL25 is as follows:(a) Restricted period. Until the holder of a FI(H) rating has conducted at least 100 hours flight instruction in
helicopters and, in addition has supervised at least 25 student solo flight air exercises, the privileges of the rating
are restricted. The restriction will be removed from the rating when the above requirements have been met and
on the recommendation of the supervising FI(H).
(b) Restrictions. The privileges are restricted to carrying out under the supervision of a FI(H) approved for
this purpose:
(1) flight instruction for the issue of the PPL(H) – or those parts of integrated courses at PPL(H)
level – and type ratings for single pilot, single-engine helicopters, excluding approval of first solo
flights by day or by night and first solo navigation flights by day or by night; and
(2) night flying instruction, provided a helicopter night qualification is held, the ability to instruct at
night has been demonstrated to a FI(H) authorised to conduct FI(H) training in accordance with
JAR-FCL 2.330(d) and the night currency requirement of JAR-FCL 2.026 is satisfied.It would appear that the UK have elected to implement the provisions of Amendment 4 prior to its publication, always assuming that the examiner concerned got it right.

[atplman]

Thats brilliant news so for each circuit a student flies they do taxying, effects of controls 4.1 and 4.2, straight and level 6.1 and 6.2, climbing 7.1, 7.2, decending 8.1 8.2, medium level turns and of course a take off and landing, so i reckon if you also include the walk around then we could be getting unrestricted by flying 100 hours of gift vouchers and sending 2 students solo in the circuit :}

[BillieBob]

atplman - Which part of "It's a helicopter thing" did you not understand?

[Keygrip]

BB - which part of :} did YOU not understand?

[Whirlybird]

I immediately started working out ways to manage 3-4 exercises per flight - quite easy in helicopter flying, where hovering, hovering sideways and backwards, and spot turns, are all separate exercises. But apparently the CAA won't allow more than two, for some reason best known to them. Still, two is better than one, isn't it.

Which part of the above did you all not understand? :) :) :) :)

BB, thank you for that. This now makes some sort of sense, if the examiner got it right.

Actually, none of this makes and real sense to me. Supervise 25 solo flights, they say. Ah, but the 3 flights of the QXC are...one flight. And if you're a helicopter instructor, we'll make it 25 exercises. And you can have more than one exercise per flight, because we know you often do...."Do a few circuits, Bloggs, then practise hovering". But not more than two, because...because...well, because we're the CAA, and we say so, that's why. And if you do what we say, because we say so, you'll be a Better Instructor, and when you get the number of signatures that we've said, this year, this moment, for reasons best known to us, we'll let you be unrestricted, kind people that we are.

But I'm only a little FI(R), what do I know? :confused: :)

[Johe02]

This is a myth.. . and unfortunate piece of wording.

I recently upgraded and the form has 25 boxes on it to enter Date, Reg, A/C, Exercise numbers. .etc

Is anyone really going to send that form back with say the first 5 boxes filled in with . . . 8, 9, 10, 11, 13. . in each of them?

They charge you for a rejected application you know. .

[Whirlybird]

I just emailed the CAA, and it's TRUE - for helicopter FI(R)s. I can quote chapter and verse if anyone wants. I don't know about f/w, and assumed they'd be the same, so sorry if I've caused any confusion.

[Bravo73]

Whirly,

I can confirm that this is true.

'25 air exercises' (NOT 'flights') was how I removed my restriction in May of last year. According to the hand written note that I got from the drone in the CAA, I was effectively the test case for the new system. (My application was initially rejected until I brought to their attention the TrainingCom with the relevant details that had been issued by their own department!)

According to my records, it took me 12 flights to fulfill the 25 exercises.

Johe02 has got it wrong.


B73 :ok:

[Johe02]

Wow. . I'm amazed. . and I stand corrected.

So those 25 boxes on the form are just in case you only do one excerise per flight. . !

It's a crazy world. .

:confused:

[Whopity]

The principle is that an Exercise is defined in JAR-FCL 2 wheras a Flight is not. Two exercises require two briefings and the exercise content is defined in the syllabus.