Air New Zealand (Mount Cook Airline) Pilots on Strike.

[eureka]

Mount Cook pilots (yeh the ATR72 drivers) I hear are withdrawing all overtime from the 13 April. How much will this disrupt the schedules? And what is their problem? Is it negotiations/ industrial?:confused:

[kmagyoyo]

Two posts and both seeking reaction to the same question; Guess that makes you Management.

And what is their problem?

That would be you....

[propaganda]

Let me guess...overworked.....underpaid.....not appreciated......undermined...
where have I seen that before !!!!!!!!!!!:cool:

[Eagleman]

Why don't you call the JPC. They give management everything they want!!!

[pakeha-boy]

how do you correlate going on strike with withdrawing overtime.....a little sensational "the strike" thing dont you think......:confused:

[haughtney1]

Hmmmm I know what will stick it up em...lets not work overtime!.....brilliant:}
oh wait...does that mean I still have to work?

[Cloud Cutter]

'Working to rule' is normally the first stage of strike action. Not sure about the impact on Mount Cook, but Eagle certainly aren't able to operate properly without pilots accepting call outs. I gather for the MC boys and girls, this means not being available for work on their 5th day off. Given that they don't roster standbys, this could be very tricky for the company.

This is the point when the company typically withdraws staff travel 'privileges', and possibly tries to cancel leave.

[pakeha-boy]

Cloud mate...not trying to split hairs here.....but direct me to where not doing overtime is considered the "first actions" of a strike.....
In the "real" world a strike vote is taken,and if that succeeds,then overtime is refused...(from experience)
Have the MC pilots taken such action? or is it a lot of chinwaggle and waving sabre,s......dont get me wrong ..I wish them the best

[Cloud Cutter]

I can only speak from my experience with Eagle industrial actions. The first step was a call-out ban, followed by a full strike which thankfully didn't go ahead. The reason for this was pretty funny actually - the courier company, who assured the union that the strike notice would be issued on time, delivered late, making the strike illegal. Thankfully an acceptable contract was reached and the whole process worked as it's supposed to.

From my limited knowledge of goings on at Mount Cook, management are not playing ball with the new contract, and the Union is standing their ground. There is concern about their future, with Air Nelson operating the Q300 (and Air NZ holding options on more Q3/400s). I'm sure everything will work out, and wish them all the best. As the most profitable part of Air NZ, they do hold significant negotiating power.

[stoidiuoy]

Cloud Cutter......

I'm sure everything will work out, and wish them all the best. As the most profitable part of Air NZ, they do hold significant negotiating power.

Word on the street is they might be walking on thin ice with any proposed action.

Forward thinking would be beneficial in cases like that.

The boys in NSN might be in for a windfall.

[Hanz Blix]

Good luck to the boys and girls at COOK, its not like your asking for a hell of alot!

TO THE REST:
Working to rule is just a good tool to use in this case, no call outs, meal breaks on time ect ect makes a company realise very quickly just how much they depend on pilot good will to get them through a working week.
From experience with working to rule and in EAG's case it would have only taken a few days of operation before the company was in serious trouble. If my memory serves me rite EAG pilots do that many call outs over the course of the year that its worth more than a Captains salary (not that that sayin much:eek: )

Once again good luck, hope it dosen't get to ugly:ok:

[27/09]

One post, registered this month, not a mate of Eurekas' are you?

Word on the street is they might be walking on thin ice with any proposed action Which street might this be?

Forward thinking would be beneficial in cases like that.
Care to expand on what you mean here?

I hear that some of the issues are the unilateral changing of some allowances and conditions by management without any negotiation.

[Cloud Cutter]

I have heard that 'word on the street' as well. But the guys and girls at Chook are doing a good job of calling the bluff, which is what I hope it is. They are only asking for their contract to be kept in line with previous years progress, and in proportion with National. I would certainly hope they have the full support of the Air Nelson pilot group, who will (hopefully) refuse to undercut them.

[pakeha-boy]

I have been on several pilot negotiating groups where the company would not comply with the contract.....an arbitrator told me once......Contracts are made............to be broken!!!!
reckon this is just another example of mgt kuri...
Best of luck to the MC pilot group

[eureka]

Far from it ... eureka stockade and all ...thats if you know any history of the union movement in Aus.. so far from the management you will probably never no but you can e-mail me and i will reveal all . Union through and through.

[stillalbatross]

Hey Cloudcutter, if a handfull of ATRs that were virtually given to Air NZ for loose change are the most profitable part of Air NZ then the airline is truly doomed.

[Thump & Go]

Why is that?

[Cloud Cutter]

Not sure I follow you. Are you disputing the fact that Mount Cook is the most profitable part of the group?

[stillalbatross]

Thump and go, because if we put aside for a second the fact that it isn't a proper company, as the NZ Govt is it's sole remaining major shareholder (since they screwed Singapore). And the NZ govt doesn't really care if it makes money or not, they are going to continue propping it up in some misguided belief that the NZ economy can't cope without it in it's present form. If we put all this aside, then there is no way a normal company could expect the profit levels of one of it's smaller subsidiaries to carry the rest of the non-performing operations or even provide for a dividend that would keep enough of the shareholders happy that major changes wouldn't be inevitable.

I am sure there are plenty of management students doing case studies on Air NZ and I doubt many of them are saying the business can survive in it's present form.

Cloudcutter, Mt Cook is most profitable based on what?

[Speeds high]

I wouldn't bother arguing against StillAlbertross, i think he is part of the flat earth society.

[Hanz Blix]

Stillalbatross
I suggest you take a good look at the finacial reports, Chook make the most after tax profit for Air NZ (remember to take into account there relitavly low overheads compared to bigger brother). Its been well known for years that money bleeds from the Long Haul and trans tasman operations while the domestic fleets are making the coin:ok:

[ZK-NSJ]

probably because, give or take half a dozen qantas 737's on the main trunk line, the domestic outfit has little competition

[pakeha-boy]

Seems a little pointless as to who,s making and not making money,if you think you know where it all goes,would be interested to hear.....

Contracts are contracts,and mgt needs to adhere them....we follow your rules,fly the A/C the way you want us to fly them,....mgt should abide by the contracts the signed off on...if things change,which they all do,side-letters(to the contract)are signed off,with the participation all parties involved(yeah right!!!!)

Being a fairly small pilot group,the chook pilots obviously dont have a lot of resources at hand,pilot strength wise or $$$$$ wise,but there are ways to bring mgt kuri closer to their kness.....take a close look at some of Delta airlines tactics,and yes they are a much bigger airline with a lot more clout,but there tactics have also worked for smaller entities .

I think it has been proven ,thats strikes in the end, very seldom have worked in the favour of the pilot groups,ie American,Ansett,and countless others.
Better to be at work,getting a paycheck,and benefits(if any) than to be on the street,sitting around like a spare pr#ck at a party.

Union and pilot groups are only as strong and effective as there membership,those that participate, as opposed to those that come to work, get a paycheck,go home and refuse to contribute to the larger cause,and you will always have that type on member.Hopefully at chook,they are united and have strong participation.Strike Action should be the last resort

[pakeha-boy]

forgot to mention:

If our Chook brothers and sisters do go on stike,please let me know,as the Ex-Eastern pilot that does my gardening and yardwork is about to retire....Ill be looking for someone to replace him!!....

[stillalbatross]

Hans Blix,

I would bed to differ there. If you go back to the days of competition with Ansett NZ (R.I.P), without stepping on toes, there was often much talk about the relative profitibility of the Air NZ domestic operation. At the time Air NZ used to often show in it's annual that in spite of it's majority share of the domestic main trunk market, it didn't make much of a profit on domestic maintrunk turnover at all. From memory around 3-4% for most of the 90's. And this is back when it was operating ancient outdated third-world -200's and on the books they would have been pretty cheap.

[Speeds high]

90's may have been the 90's, but today Hans Blix has hit the nail on the head

[Split Flap]

If the long haul fleet didn't bring the passengers in to the country in the first place, then the domesic operation would have significantly fewer people to fly around anyway, so then nobody would be making money..

[eureka]

I hear the boys and girls at Mt Cook are on strike well into June. Still not working on their days off. Lots of flights being cancelled because of sickness and only a few scallywags to do the work. What are the customers being told? Bet they don't know the pilots have withdrawn their labour. Hear tell they are arguing over about 100k and want some decent travel to simulator in Bangkok. Not economy that they are being offered at the moment. Air New Zealand management must be nuts not to look after these pilots who are one of the cash cows of the Air NZ group.

[Cloud Cutter]

I'm shocked they don't already get business class travel to Hong Kong. Any similar employee in a non-aviation company would expect business class for a long-haul, business related trip.

Even the Eagle contract contains the clause: Flights longer than four hours shal be business class or equivalent.

Although they don't seem to be putting this into practice with the new hires when there is no space available :rolleyes:

[Capt. On Heat]

I hear the boys and girls at Mt Cook are on strike well into June. Still not working on their days off.

Surely not working on your days off and not working when you're on annual leave isn't considered bone fide strike action. Clearly the lads and lasses at Chook bend over backwards to keep that place running smoothly. What's the hold up???? Economy travel for over 20 hours travel to a sim detail-nonsense and 100 grand (I'm assuming you mean over the pilot group and not each Eureka!) Peanuts!!! The Mt Cook Maestro is conducting very well indeed!!!

[pakeha-boy]

exactly....."on strike"...gimme a break!!!