Sama threads combined

[newscaster]

Here www.flysama.com and http://www.tradearabia.com/source/2006-02/05/sama.jpg

Its pronounced as "some'ah".

[mutt]

So are www.flysama.com and www.project-nemo.com the same airline??


Mutt

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

So are www.flysama.com (http://www.flysama.com) and www.project-nemo.com (http://www.project-nemo.com) the same airline??


Mutt

Yes. Project nemo was a "working title", so to speak ;) .

Still waiting on NAS to unveil their LCC

[Luibar]

Good evening

Any of you know or heard about a new outfit called SAMA?
Its a low cost based in Saudi Arabia and I just received an invitation for interview.
Any infos about the cost of living in Riyadh and the housing rents?
Thank you

Luibar

[Panama Jack]

Perhaps this thread helps somewhat:

Living Riyadh (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=213070)

[GlobalFlyer]

I dont know much about them apart from the little info provided in the launch press releases...

I do know that they're mostly managed by Mango Aviation Partners, a consultancy firm specializing in low-fare airline operations based in the UK.

Any info on start up dates? website?

[mutt]

www.flysama.com


mutt

[Luibar]

I'm going to an interview in London on April 11 followed by a sim check.

[aimhigh]

I already visited their website.

But... Can I know more about this New LCC in Saudi Arabia?

Thank you previously. ;)

[bluepacific]

Capt's on $10.5K, F/O's $7.0K
You have to be based there.:{
BP

[aimhigh]

Capt's on $10.5K, F/O's $7.0K
You have to be based there.:{
BP

please check PM, sir. ;)

[bluepacific]

Aimhigher,
Check your PM's.
BP :D

[robson767300]

Please,I have a interview in SAMA,I need a lot of inf about that.
Thank´s a lot for nay help.:sad: :ok:

[robson767300]

Hi folks,

I need any kind of information about SAMa,please:8

Thank´s a lot for your help...

[menikos]

what's your profile ?

[robson767300]

I am a captain of B767/757.I have aprox 4000pic total of,737efis/NG,DC1030 and 767/757.:cool:

[giopi]

need info as well!!

[samuelcam]

please post SAMA website address.
tks

[mutt]

www.fly-sama.com


robson767300, with your experience, why on earth would you want to fly a B737 on domestic services within Saudi Arabia?? Strongly suggest you look further east :)

Mutt

[robson767300]

Thank´s mutt...

I´m trying,but I think the most part of the companies does not like brazilian pilot,
I really do not know why.I am trying,if you have any sugestion I appreciate...:ouch: :{

[vagabond 47]

Anybody know what OSAMA Airlines are paying Check Airman,and where will there base be Jed or Rya?

[Darkjet]

Hi all,

I'm also interested to learn where they will base the flight crews . Anybody out there could give us some informations on the cost of living in both Jed & Rya :ie Compound housing, schools etc....

thanks ,

Dj.

[aimhigh]

Please,I have a interview in SAMA,I need a lot of inf about that.
Thank´s a lot for nay help.:sad: :ok:

I also on the process of an interview.

Did you get any exact date, location and terms ?

Is interview by your own cost or SAMA support for an interview?

I will open the PM for any infos.

good luck to your interview, captain! :ok:

[aimhigh]

The SAMA pilot’s salary scale




Benefit Captain SF/O F/O S/O

Objective: target monthly earning US$ US$ 10,500 $ 7500 $5000 $3000
Saudi Riyal SR 39,500 SR 28,200 SR 18,800 SR11300

BREAKDOWN
Ø1 Salary $ 6000 $ 4000 $ 2000 $1000
Ø2 Transport $ 400 $ 300 $ 300 $300
Ø3 Housing $ 2000 $ 1500 $ 1500 $1000
Ø4 Annual home ticket $ 100 $ 100 $ 100 $60
Ø5 Medical cover $ 60 $ 60 $ 60 $60
Ø6 Sector pay (50 to 60 per month) $35 per sector $ 25 $ 15 $10

Instructors premium (per year):
Ø7 Check airman/ examiner $6000
Ø8 Line training / examiner $3000
Ø9 Simulator instructor $1500 $750
Ø10 Ground school instructor $500

ADDITIONAL CREW COSTS ITEMS:
Company pay
Ø11 License cost Company pay Company cost Company cost Company cost
Ø12 Flight instructor certification Company cost Company cost Company cost
Ø13 Ground instructor approval Company pay
Ø14 License medical $ Actual $ Actual $ Actual $ Actual
Ø15 Uniform FOC FOC FOC FOC
Ø16 Moving allowance (once off) $3000 $3000 $3000 Nil
Ø17 Residence permits Company pay Company pay Company pay Company pay
Ø18 Certification issues Company pay Company pay Company pay Company pay
Ø19 Indoc and recurrent training (!) Company pay Company pay Company pay Company pay
Ø20 Future salary indexing Board approval Board approval Board approval Board approval
Ø21 Termination bonus 0.5 of month to year 5 and 1 month thereafter 0.5 of month to year 5 and 1 month thereafter 0.5 of month to year 5 and 1 month thereafter 0.5 of month to year 5 and 1 month thereafter
Ø22 Profit sharing Not yet confirmed Not yet confirmed Not yet confirmed Not yet confirmed
(!) All pilots will complete a type rating


INFORMATION:

Based on the above we will have four grades of pilots.

Captains,
Senior First Officer,
First Officer and
Second Officer.

The minimum qualification for each would be as follows:

Captain: total not less than 4000 hours on aircraft over 50 tonnes. 2000 hours command on type .
SF/O : Total hours sufficient to be issued an ATP , not less than 2000 hours on B737 or equivalent. Upgrade to Captain requires 4000 hours total time
F/O: Total hours 1500 not les than 800 on B7373 or equivalent.
S/O: Total hours 200+ with no airline or jet experience.



I'm not sure these scales are correct.
But better than no infos or at lease will be good clues.
Good Luck to all! :ok:

[siddiqi]

hi, anyone know what is happening here, as understand the Saudi authorities have delayed any licence issue to new carriers until end of year. As i understand it they hired a bunch of european consultants and am sure the main man HRH is not to impressed by the experience or shall we say lack of it from there key people who until this were a bunch of unknowns. hopefully they get there licence, but up against 2 others for only 2 licences.

[mutt]

but up against 2 others for only 2 licences.

NAS and Al-Tayyar??

If you look in the Cabin Crew forum, you will see complaints about NAS changing contracts, late payments and crew not getting their days off. Is this a good sign for a new company? Can they really be considered a serious contender for the forthcoming licences?

Mutt

[MondayGrouch]

hi, anyone know what is happening here, as understand the Saudi authorities have delayed any licence issue to new carriers until end of year. As i understand it they hired a bunch of european consultants and am sure the main man HRH is not to impressed by the experience or shall we say lack of it from there key people who until this were a bunch of unknowns. hopefully they get there licence, but up against 2 others for only 2 licences.

Check your facts first, my friend. Consultants at Sama have years of low cost airline experience. Government delays can hardly be blamed on the consultants/employees of an airline. Presuming you are Saudi, I also presume you know how slowly the government moves there!

[siddiqi]

Government delays fully appreciated, but it is very apparent they have lack of experience, in companies that have long gone, the sold a good line to the main man, and no doubt got paid a good amount for it.

It would be easy to give a rundown on there expertise, and maybe HRH should have his eyes opened. Why have consultants here from the reservations system company that is not even up and running. A system that is being got rid of by other airlines. no pilots hired as yet so the delay is a bonus for them, but cabin crew on the books, and more coming very soon.

Hope it works and not just a EGO trip for people, especially the unknown consultancy with a "fruit " name.

[Off 2 C the Wizard]

Hmmm -- questionable logic there Siddiq. Would you hire a crop duster pilot to captain your 777? Why wouldn't you hire people who have had senior roles in the likes of easyJet, Air Asia, Ryanair, etc. to start-up a low cost airline? Last I checked, these airlines are still around and pretty succesful! What other options do you have? Saudi Arabian hardly cutting edge -- 25,000 employees for how many planes? Sounds like the local guy has his head screwed on alright to me. A few bad decisions would quickly wipe out any "savings" by hiring people who don't have a clue...

[siddiqi]

only pointing out the delay is fortunate, so they will have time to get the right calibre to operate the aircraft, seeing first aircraft to arrive by end of month and potential sit in Jed until the authorities go forward. aircraft 2-3-4 follow within next couple of months. good business for arabasco.

[bomos]

Thank´s mutt...

I´m trying,but I think the most part of the companies does not like brazilian pilot,
I really do not know why.I am trying,if you have any sugestion I appreciate...:ouch: :{


fala ai pedroso... abraço

[mutt]

I'm confused :confused: :confused:

GACA have stated that they will accept applications until the end of June, they will then decide at the end of 2006 which 2 companies they will award the licences to, 1 will be based in Riyadh, 1 in Dammam. (Saudia already have the licence for Jeddah).

AFAIK, there are 3 competitors for these 2 licences,

1: NAS
2: SAMA
3: Al Tayyar Air

How can SAMA be actively be recruiting crews and leasing aircraft if they dont even know that they will get a licence to operate?

Mutt

[fractional]

Mutt,
How can SAMA be actively be recruiting crews and leasing aircraft if they dont even know that they will get a licence to operate?

It all depends on "the REAL political weight" of the owner(s) of SAMA. They may feel confident that in the "line of power" they are 1 of the 2 out of 3 applicants. You now how things work.
Cheers

[mutt]

My "wasta" is bigger than your "wasta"....... Interesting situation... :)

Considering that Prince KBS is a minority shareholder in NAS, plus Emaar of Dubai have recently purchased into the company, it will be interesting to see how this ends....

Now where do Al-Tayyar Air feature in all of this???

Mutt

[Sal-e]

Hi fellas. I think one of the original questions on interview tips hadn't been answered yet. So.....whoever out there who had done the interview please share your experience.

[Sal-e]

Obviously, not too many people have been invited to a Sama Airlines interview. Anyone out there who has been interviewed, please share the details.

[siddiqi]

It seems they are going back to square one for recruiting with all the delays giving problems for anyone they found first time round cannot or will not give a start time as they do not even know when it might start. plenty of other staff employed sitting on there fingers and aircraft coming, keep in there it will happen.

[siddiqi]

Latest news is early 2007 start this will give them time to find there crews but will they keep the big amount of ex pat staff until then. the aircraft will start arriving very soon. the fruit company must have given the main man a good line. keep in there

[siddiqi]

Recruitment drive started again on a well known website, beware they are no further forward despite the good line given by there CEO to the board recently, still telling everyone by Dec they will fly, do not give up a job on a promise unless they cross your palm with $$$$. cannot see the fruit company coming out of this very well at all. let us see who is first in the air of the minimum three companies involved.

:sad: :cool:

[Sal-e]

Thanks Siddiqi, where do you get that piece of information? I've recieved an email from them of congratulations on being shortlisted for interview....this was a month ago. No dates. Can I count on that letter to actually eventually happen or could they turn around and decide not to invite me again?

[siddiqi]

They are interviewing at present for number of positions around the ME but have offered positions to people and then withdrawn them in a number of areas, some people having given up jobs. It is apparent the UK people have little intention of hiring others but happily sitting in the sun then paid trips home every three weeks.

[Sal-e]

Is Sama using an agency for recruiting or are they doing it themselves? And how secure is an invitation for an undated interview for pilots?

[fractional]

SAMA are riding on a kind of roller-coaster hoping they will get one of the 2 operators' licenses among 3 candidates. There is a UK based management company running the show but I think it's all too early since they had a serious setback in securing that license.
Sorry to hear many guys committed to SAMA and got left "stranded in the desert".

[mutt]

Fractional,

That doesnt sound very promising.... Can you elaborate?

Mutt

[CMN]

And their mailbox is full and rejecting mails.....very professional. :O

[mutt]

Sal-e

Welcome to the Middle East where the sands of time blow s.l.o.w.l.y...... Didnt you read the part about the GACA not issuing any AOC until the end of 2006, it doesnt seem logical that Sama will recruit crews until they are sure that they will be one of the AOC recipients.......

As for Al-Tayyar Air.... does this company actually exist or is if a figment of one gentlemans imagination?


Mutt

[MondayGrouch]

Agreed, Mutt. I don't understand the whining on this one. How, on the one hand, can there be claims of people being "stranded in the desert," and then complaints that recruitment hasn't been fast enough! Seems like Siddiqi & Sal-e need to wake up to the realities of this business, and the ME, and working with government agencies in a regulated market.

Sounds like a logical approach to me to put off the start dates until closer to license. From what I hear, there are a handful of cabin crew who have started and are doing office jobs until training starts. Hardly a crisis...

[Sal-e]

Mutt,
sorry about that, I didn't read about the AOC issue. That part of the world sounds a lot like mine (pacific). In that case, I have all the patience in the world.

[fractional]

I'm sorry Mutt. Quite busy these days and despite reading the forum missed your msg. I'll let you about that. They seemed a bit confused the last time I had the opportunity to get some news. Let's see...

[Sal-e]

Just some news
http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/06/07/16/10053366.html

As for the potential competitior Al Tayyar, this is where they're up to.
http://www.middle-east-online.com/English/?id=13672

Finally, NAS looks set to take out first place.
http://www.ameinfo.com/72294.html

[mutt]

Ummm..... always thought that news meant something "new".... those articles are from 2005...... :):)


Mutt

[Sal-e]

Woooops, copied the wrong one.... here's a better one.
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=81297&d=26&m=4&y=2006

[fractional]

SAMA and Al Tayyar will be the lucky ones. I don't think NAS will get it since they are already operating VIP ad-hoc services and shortly regular ones.
Things may change... though.

[mutt]

That doesnt make sense :):)

NAS are established with their fractional operation, their GACA-135 VIP Operation and their scheduled Premium service, however, rumor has it that they arent making money! I'm sure that Emaar expect a high return on their investment, hence their immense desire to obtain the low cost operators licence.

SAMA, they have at least employed people familiar with the low cost concept.

Al-Tayyar, still think this is a fantasy! Anyone who thinks that they can operate to the 26 kingdom airports with a Boeing/Airbus and make money is fooling himself! :):)

Mutt

[fractional]

Mutt, sometimes things aren't so fluid as they are supposed to be. The reasoning may be that NAS has its cake slice and they have got to make it work. Their new internal all biz service may well work with smaller aircraft. Will it fill and so will it pay the flight?
Here is a piece of news indicating SAMA are getting ready for the "ticket".
http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZAWYA20060724031345/SecIndustries/pagTransport/lok031300060724

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

Hi there,

Good points you guys raise. However you overlook one thing. You can't rely on e-Booking or Telephone Booking in Saudi. This is Tayyar's trump card. They are the largest (so I've been told) travel agency in the country. Their large client base and nationwide retail network would be invaluable. My guess is that Tayyar and NAS will team up for the second licence.

[Sal-e]

Ok guys. According to the latest news clipping posted by fractional, Sama should have 7 B737s by Xmas and a start within "months". Talk about "vague"!!
Million dollar question. What date will the first revenue flight be? I'm not being impatient. It's just that the above info means to me anywhere between 2 months and 5 months. And if Saudi Arabia is anything like the pacific, it most likely means more.

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

According to GACA the licences will be issued by the end of December at the latest, but from past experiences with government licencing I don;t think they'll have them before February/March.

[siddiqi]

how do they propose to carry so many passengers according to the press in 2006 if the licence will not be granted until December ? fine if it is December 1 then they hopefully will carry some.

But as previous advised by others passenger booking is the main criteria and others have the edge on them there it is all well and good hiring "professionals" but remember things move in different ways in this part of the world, and they have a long way to go.

where are the aircraft now 7 or maybe it is less even though it is a big order for delivery this year to fly for maybe one month without losing major $$$, when they can be sure to lose like the others a fortune for first few years just operating domestic.

I would still tread very wary if you have something good already stay there

[mutt]

Do you really believe press releases??? :):)
Looking at this as an outsider but trying to be realistic. GACA have announced that they will issue the licence at the end of 2006, not sure if they actually means 01-1428. All of the competitors will have to show competence and the ability to operate routes profitably, but surely no one would expect them to start operations immediately! Especially as the Eid will be over and the next rush will be the summer holidays.
I’m interested to see how they can operate 7 aircraft, the route structure of Saudi is interesting, but very few of the routes actually operate full and those that do, have a massive number of free ticket holders onboard!

Mutt.

[mutt]

Thought that there were 3 airlines seeking these licences, but discovered that 10 companies applied for the tender documents, it will be interesting to see how many of these managed to submit complete proposals yesterday!

Also interesting to note the routes on offer!!!

Let the fun begin:):)

Mutt

[siddiqi]

any idea who they all are besides

Sama
NAS/Easyjet
Al Tayyar

who are the other 7 Mutt

also understand the deadline was extended until end of august.

[Cyrano]

any idea who they all are besides
Sama
NAS/Easyjet
Al Tayyar


Siddiqi:

Sorry if I missed something, but you refer to "NAS/Easyjet" - is there some sort of link between NAS and easyJet, are they using their name, or what?

Thanks
C.

[Sal-e]

Ok guys, before I even commit myself going to the interview in Jakarta, does anyone out there have any positive and/or negative comments about the terms and conditions compared to the rest of the industry? I'll be needing every advice I can get, being married with 3 kids and currently in Australia before such a radical move to the ME. I do not intend to bring the family to Saudi. Cheers guys.

[siddiqi]

yes a strong rumour from the area easy are involved with NAS, and have had people in KSA on their behalf, who knows we wait and see.


Sale, be careful they are looking to commence in december if they are lucky, strong rumour also is they are likely to be in a position of struggle to get going.To date only the chief pilot is hired and few cabin crew:rolleyes:

may the best person win

[siddiqi]

does anyone really know of anybody who has been given a start date for training flight or cabin, forget the senior mixed nationality management or consultants.

[Cyrano]

yes a strong rumour from the area easy are involved with NAS, and have had people in KSA on their behalf, who knows we wait and see.

Siddiqi, you're quite right :ok: . ATI has a story today reporting that NAS has made a joint approach to easyJet with a Dubai-based private equity house, proposing to become an easyJet franchisee, but easyJet says that they will not make a decision before early next year (they are waiting to see what happens with the KSA licences).

C.

[siddiqi]

December 1st for new airline, has anyone else heard that date, I thought it was end of year or into the new year, crew training not yet confirmed dates, let us hope December 1 as that will be good to have date going forward

[KCflyer]

Is Sama getting 73 guys only? If you fly other equipment “Jet"...would they consider non 73?

KC

[siddiqi]

anyone who is keen would get in, but you have to risk not getting anywhere so do not give up something as goal post changes weekly when and if it gets going then should be sound company but how long can they keep at it

good luck

[siddiqi]

anyone who is keen would get in, but you have to risk not getting anywhere so do not give up something as goal post changes weekly when and if it gets going then should be sound company but how long can they keep at it rumour has it new chief pilot coming,

good luck

[HERC]

Hi,
Does any one have any info on startup domestic Sama Air in Saudia?
Like when are they starting, aircraft and pilot recruitment, pay packages, any advises on its prospects if it ever takes off

[KCmontiro]

Hi,
Does any one have any info on startup domestic Sama Air in Saudia?
Like when are they starting, aircraft and pilot recruitment, pay packages, any advises on its prospects if it ever takes off


hi am am an Fa in sama i well strat my batch in 9dec frst batch started on 5nov and we ben told thay may start in 1/1/2007 the aircraft is BOEING 737-300C
i dont know about the pilot recruiment but you can apply in aviationjobserce dot com or flysama dot com,,, good luck:ok:

[mutt]

Its interesting to see that Saudia purchased 66 seat E170s to operate the routes that SAMA will now operate with B737-300's.......

Hope the PSO contract pays enough....

Mutt

[mutt]

Why was the SAMA thread closed???? As the last person to post there, I'm feeling kinda guilty :(

Mutt

[Desert Diner]

Just when it was getting interesting. 737-300C ?

[4HolerPoler]

Sorry, it was my finger trouble - the powers that be on this site have invoked a new bit of software that closes all threads that are inactive, after 90 days I think. When I do my housekeeping & merge a new thread with an existing thread on the same topic that has expired (and been locked) the new, merged thread gets locked. All it takes is a few more minutes of my day but I'm still getting used to this new nifty piece of bureaucracy.

4HP

[mutt]

Taken from www.flysama.com

Under the terms of the agreements, Oasis will provide Sama with one 737-300 aircraft which is planned to be Sama’s first aircraft in service. GECAS will lease Sama three 737-300 aircraft to be phased into service through 2006.

4HP.... methinks you need some recurrent training.... :):):)

Mutt

[HERC]

Mutt,
You seem like the most experienced guy on the happenings in the kingdom, care to elaborate further on the prospects of sama? They interviewed in May, 2006 and those interviewed are still hanging with no response on joining dates as yet. Do you think they will get all the requisite approvals before or by end December, 2006 to start ops in early Feb 2006?

Thanks

[mutt]

Herc....
I dont work for SAMA nor do i know anyone who does.... So this is just based upon external facts/rumors :)

Yes, I do believe that GACA will finally get off their a..e and issue the 2 licences at the end of the year.
SAMA and NAS will take over a number of Public Service Obligation routes funded by the government, unfortunately their aircraft choice doesnt suit these routes as the loads are c,,p.
Hopefully the investors in both these companies have large pockets... i dont think that they will make money domestically.... but in 2 years they will be allowed to go international, at this stage they should be able to make money !!

Mutt....

[R&F]

Got interviewed in may, shortlisted....hope this wait goin' to be end.....and SAMA fly eventually........:ugh:

[arba]

Done interview & sim. asessment in August 06, and asked :
-carrier and family
-will you bring them along

-what you know about LCC
-any thought in changing (better) check-list or procedure
-are you familiar with F.A.R
-have you ever/familiar flying in Middle East (JED,RUH,etc)

-what is Transformer Rectifier ? which's one is most important ?
-No bleed take off switch position
-eng failure drift down, speed ? altitude to level off
-PTU
-eng fire recall items

they told me the training at Royal Maroc, Casablanca

cheers

[HERC]

Thanks Mutt for the info and the insight into SAMA affairs.

Much to the chagrin of those shortlisted as cockpit crew there is no news forthcoming on the start up date.

HR says that there is no news and are still awaiting the licence. :ugh:

[chabu]

Hiya,

Noticed a question (closed thread) regarding FlySama.

I can confirm that he first aircraft has been ferried to JED on Nov. 26th,
fully painted by QAPS at AMS. (Photo on A.Net)

This aircraft is N33341, new regi HZ-DMO.

The second aircraft was rolled-out today at QAPS and is HZ-BBK (http://www.scramble.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?p=147405).

The SAMA website isn't active yet.

Bye, Chris.

[chabu]

The SAMA website isn't active yet.


Found another website: www.fly-sama.com

Bye, Chris.

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

Looks good.

Thanks Chabu

[mutt]

Yikes... I wouldnt like to play poker with these guys...:):)

Airplane parked on the apron 3 weeks prior to GACA announcing who will receive the "3" operating licences .......

Official announcement due Dec 20th.

Chabu, threads lock automatically after a period of time, hence the reason for the other SAMA thread having a padlock..

Mutt

Threads opened & merged. 4HP

[mutt]

GACA were supposed to announce the names of the two companies that will receive the licence today.....

Saudia and NAS are not counted.....

So i believe that SAMA and Red Sea Air will get them.....

Mutt

[fractional]

GACA were supposed to announce the names of the two companies that will receive the licence today.....
Saudia and NAS are not counted.....
So i believe that SAMA and Red Sea Air will get them.....
Mutt
Just having a break and a kitkat along...
Mutt, I think I was right, at least > half right, when I said sometime ago what could be the outcome of the GACA screening, all depending on "the royal power" of the applicants:
23rd July 2006, 15:16
SAMA and Al Tayyar will be the lucky ones. I don't think NAS will get it since they are already operating VIP ad-hoc services and shortly regular ones.
Things may change... though.
and:
24th July 2006, 16:23
Mutt, sometimes things aren't so fluid as they are supposed to be. The reasoning may be that NAS has its cake slice and they have got to make it work. Their new internal all biz service may well work with smaller aircraft. Will it fill and so will it pay the flight?
Here is a piece of news indicating SAMA are getting ready for the "ticket".
http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZA...ok031300060724
Let's wait for the (final) decision. Gongratulations to the winners:D.

[mutt]

And the first licence went to.............................................

National Air Service..... :confused: :confused: :confused:

Next one to be awarded after 45 days. That airline will be based in Dammam....

The next big question is... Can SAMA make money if they operate from Dammam?

Mutt

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

lol I think Sama have pissed off some people with their marketing.
I went to the GACA website today, and in their press release of the 6 shortlisted bidders they have a notice warning bidders "It is strictly prohibitied to make any release or briefing or advertising or any activity that would allude to or give the impression that the bidder has been licenced, as this is considered a clear violation of bidding regulations. any violation will have a negative impact on the bidder's evaluation score and can even lead to the bid not being considered".


^The above was in Arabic, I translated it.

Shortlisted bidders:

1. Sama airlines (al-Washkan company Ltd.)
2. National Air services (NAS) <- (won Riyadh licence?)
3. Tayyar airlines (Tayyar travel group)
4. Nation airlines (Petrogal (?) company)
5. Tower airlines (Kingdom holdings)
6. Ikhwan trading company

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

And the first licence went to.............................................

National Air Service..... :confused: :confused: :confused:

Next one to be awarded after 45 days. That airline will be based in Dammam....

The next big question is... Can SAMA make money if they operate from Dammam?

Mutt

I understood that they'll be allowed to operate flights from Riyadh or Jeddah, they just have to have their base in Dammam.

[mutt]

Taher Agueel, newly appointed CEO of NAS told Arab News that the fleet would reach 18 aircraft by 2010. Initially NAS low-cost-carrier (LCC) will cover 22 Saudi cities in the first year of its operation and will accomplish its goal of covering its 37 domestic routes by the end of 2008

Now I'm totally confused...:confused: :confused: I expected the newbies to accept the "Public Service Obligation" routes and then to seek the most profitable of the Saudia domestic routes, I certainly didnt expect them to operate to the whole country!

I hope that they are planning to buy 40 seater aircraft! As for the concept of LOW COST, i always understood that for the low concept to work, you had to fill the majority of the seats, this cant work with a A318 on routes with 10,000 passengers PER YEAR!

Good Luck.

Mutt

[R&F]

Gents,

Any one have any update on SAMA???:confused:

[mutt]

GACA awarded the Dammam licence to SAMA.....

They are talking about operating 35 aircraft...

Mutt

[jetman61]

they have just started calling past applicants this week
the classes will be going to morrocow and the base now is dammam
great cheif pilot-irish pete and an excellent training captain gibbs
and they do need lots of pilots they have about 6-7 from brazil
and they need some local pilots fo/cap
good luck
ps only male flight attendants sorry for the females looking for jobs..but nass will hire females

[jetman61]

they have to fly domestic by law for two years then will go international after that
737 300 irs no gps ex air nz planes ..fairly good condition not like their competition in nass. expect 4 sectors per day about 50-70 hours per month as a start then will go lower the first two plane are in kingdom the next two i think in a month or so they have the lic but for crew they will take a few months to get the clearance to operate on the given routs i think

[R&F]

GACA awarded the Dammam licence to SAMA.....

They are talking about operating 35 aircraft...

Mutt

Dear mutt...,

If you don't mind i'm asking....is this confirmed....means this is on the news or you have a valid resource....????:confused:

Because i've been waiting for SAMA since may....and now i am about to sign employment with other company...but if SAMA really got the license....i might have to postpone my new job....or do you have any suggestion.....

Gents,

Anyone already been called by SAMA??


thanks bro.....

R&F

[jetman61]

it was on the news two days ago
and got the email that they are calling in people
good luck all

[mutt]

R&F,

It was on the front page of the Arab News yesterday. So its a given......

Are you willing to say what employment package they are offering in realtion to cash, housing, tickets, medical, family, education, insurance?

Mutt

[jetman61]

captains make
basic 16500
extras 16000 housing transportation
extras 3700-4500 for sectors /month
anual leave and ticket and health insurance no family package
so your salary will vary from 32000-36000 sr divide over 3.75 for us
expected to fly 60-80 hours part 121

[chabu]

Hiya,

Let me start by wishing you all a nice Xmas... ;)

Have forgotten to mention in this thread that HZ-BBK was ferried to JED on December 1st, using 'KSA' as ICAO (airline) code.

So the first two aircraft should be in JED now.

Bye, Chris.

[mutt]

Chabu,

2 aircraft parked in Jeddah, understand #3/4 are in Asia waiting.

Jetman61
With that package, crews should be happy to be DMM based!

The salary is poor, its even less than SVA!

16000 per month housing is good, but with no family status, 1 ticket per year and no monthly days off, i dont see crews attempting to make a career with SAMA.

Come on MANGO... you can do better than that :)

Mutt

[jetman61]

Not Only That But More Stuff Already Worked And Quit
As I Said Before Great Chief But Management As Any Place Very Poor Start But They Already Got A Shock To The System And Things Shoul Get Better
With Competition They Will Bump Up The Sa, But Still Dammam Better Than Riyadh
Will Have To See What Nass Does ..to Start With Nass Better Equiped
They Do Intend To Get Ng But Waiting To See How Things Go
It Will Be Good Because Any One Can Beet Sv And As U See Tons Of People On The High Way Will Welcom The Low Cost..but In Aviation It Is The Start Not How Things Go

[R&F]

Dear gents,

This is last info i got:

Capt, S/FO

Basic : 6000, 4000
Transport : 400, 300
Housing : 2000, 1500
Ticket : 100
Medical : 60
Per Sector: 35, 25
all in USD

Annual leave 41 days
not mention about family, education, etc


R&F

[mutt]

Jetman61 stated that housing/transport was 16000 SAR ($4266)
R&F stated that housing/transport was ($2400) 9000 SAR......

Thats a big difference gentlemen :):)

Westerners should be advised to live in a guarded compound and not a street side apartment, these compounds aren't cheap!

Based upon Jeddah prices, they are about $1000 per month for a 1 bedroom, or $3000 per month for 3 bedroom top range.

Cars, DMM airport is about 60 kms from civilization, so a dependable car will be advisable. A new sportage 4 wheel drive is about $350 per month, petrol is cheaper than water at 0.8C per litre (Starting Jan 1).

Schooling is expensive, $10,000 per year per child for a western school.

Internet, $80 per month.

11 months in Kingdom before vacation is impossible !!! Western temper glands arent that strong!

Now can anyone please explain to me how the low cost concept is going to work over a route structure WITH NO PASSENGERS?

Good Luck....

Mutt

[HERC]

Mutt you sure have a point!

R&F thanks for ur mail. Consider all options. :ok:

[mutt]

SAMA (www.flysama.com) have their 1st ads in the local newspapers, they are GIVING away 10,000 seats with a start date of the 18th March, their routes are DMM-RUH DMM-JED DMM-MED DMM-NEJRAN RUH-JED....

Saudia have also announced that they will start a low cost carrier and a religious carrier, these will operate as stategic business units under the core holding company....

Let the fun begin :):)

Mutt

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

Sama are really bullish. They're building their network really quickly, opening 7 routes in one month. And free tickets to stimulate interest. And now Saudia joining the battle.

Interesting to see how NAS responds. They probably need some more planes. There isn't much room to expand with only 2 planes.


Interesting times indeed.

[mutt]

Tried booking JED-DMM at the end of Mar and the end of Apr....

In April there is 1 day with free flights, the rest are 289.00 or 309.00 each way for a non refundable ticket.

Is this LOW COST? SVA is 780.00 return for a full service airline!

Mutt

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

Hi mutt,

Sure, I wish they're cheaper, but that's still 200 Riyals less than SV.

Any info you can give on Saudia's loco?

[mutt]

Fools,
I really expected cheaper fares, I searched for "lowest fare" between now and July, only found 2 days with free tickets all the rest were AT LEAST 289+1.

From what i have seen in this part of the world, Saudis do not like to plan ahead, they want to go to the airport and get a flight now. They are in for a shock when they try this with the Lo Co companies :):)

It will also be interesting to see how they deal with passengers when they have to divert due to summer sand storms in DMM.

As for SVA, no other information :(

Mutt

[R&F]

Dear all,

I just been emailed by SAMA recently, asking that if i still interest to join them, since they have new course started on April.
Is any of you has been called by them? What are they telling about the course?

What do you think about it, should i take it?

Any advise??

R&F

[mutt]

SAMA operated their official first flight today, normal operations will begin on Sunday....

Good Luck.....

Mutt

[Irishwingz]

Hi there

Can anyone pls tell me the current Sama fleet details?

How many 737s and how old are they? If possible, registrations or MSNs too. I could only find pictures of one a/c on their website.

Cheers:ok:

[R&F]

Dear all,

Anybody already flying for SAMA in Dammam?
Appreciate if any sharing information regarding condition there.

Thanks you all

R&F

[Hansol]

There is only one word to describe SAMA and that is desperate, if they make you an offer squeeze it for all you can.

[R&F]

Hansol,

How desperate is SAMA? And can you re-phrase squeese......
I got an offering letter from them....
The training will be in miami and casablanca...
Funny thing is, i have to apply my own visa for US and Casablanca...

R&F

[pilot_737_NG]

Anyone tells me what is the requiremtent for sama for the right seat position.
And does it differ if you are local saudi pilot or expat.

thanks and best regards

[Sal-e]

I heard an offer for expats only for a Bahrain basing ie commuting to Dammam, plus an improved package. Could anyone elaborate on that?

[Sal-e]

Does anyone have the relevant emails of c/pilots/recruitment/ etc for sama? And could anyone elaborate on my previous post?

[Sal-e]

Sorry missed the last offer. Could you please post it along with all the extras and benefits if any please.

[Sal-e]

Doesn't look like any pilot jobs on their website.:{

[mutt]

So whats the problem?

Salary package?
or
Saudi Arabia?

Mutt

[Hansol]

Who would want the job, before even considering applying go and spend a week in DMM, see the town and see the airline set up.

[Sal-e]

With the current package they're offering, they're not going to attract anybody. If they're lucky, they'll last a year.

[wonder]

is there any fact-sheet regarding Sama's employment package? any current pilot employed by Sama who can elaborate?

[bomos]

The SAMA pilot’s salary scale



Benefit Captain SF/O F/O S/O
earning US$ US$ 10,500 $ 7500 $5000 $3000
Saudi Riyal SR 39,500 SR 28,200 SR 18,800 SR11300

Riyal exchange rate May ‘06 US $1 =3.75 €1 = 4.82 £1 =7.06

BREAKDOWN
➢ Salary $ 6000 $ 4000 $ 2000 $1000
➢ Transport $ 400 $ 300 $ 300 $300
➢ Housing $ 2000 $ 1500 $ 1500 $1000
Home ticket month$ 100 $ 100 $ 100 $60
➢ Medical cover $ 60 $ 60 $ 60 $60
➢earning garan $ 8560 $ 5960 $ 3960 $ 2420

➢ Sector pay $35 $ 25 $ 15 $10
SECTOR PAY EXPECTATION(50 to 60 per month)
$1750- $2000 $1250 - $1500 $750 - $900 $500 -$600

Instructors premium: (monthly)
➢ Check airman/ examiner (DE) $4000
➢ Check airman / Line training / examiner (CE) $3000
➢ Simulator instructor (SI) $2000 $2000 $2000
➢ Ground school instructor (GI) $500 $500 $500
In addition all instructors get a four sector credit for each day of simulator or full day of ground school training

ADDITIONAL CREW COSTS ITEMS:
➢ License cost Company cost Company cost Company cost Company cost
➢ Flight instructor certification Company cost Company cost Company cost
➢ Ground instructor approval Company cost
➢ License medical $ Actual $ Actual $ Actual $ Actual
➢ Uniform FOC FOC FOC FOC
➢ Moving allowance (once off) $3000 $3000 $3000 Nil
➢ Residence permits Company pay Company pay Company pay Company pay
➢ Certification issues Company pay Company pay Company pay Company pay
➢ Indoc and recurrent training (1) Company pay Company pay Company pay Company pay
➢ Future salary indexing Board approval Board approval Board approval Board approval
➢ Termination bonus Zero in year 1 and 2. Half month salary in year 3 and 4 backdate to date of joining and from year five one month for each completed year of service from date of joining Zero in year 1 and 2. Half month salary in year 3 and 4 backdate to date of joining and from year five one month for each completed year of service from date of joining Zero in year 1 and 2. Half month salary in year 3 and 4 backdate to date of joining and from year five one month for each completed year of service from date of joining Zero in year 1 and 2. Half month salary in year 3 and 4 backdate to date of joining and from year five one month for each completed year of service from date of joining
➢ Profit sharing Not yet confirmed Not yet confirmed Not yet confirmed Not yet confirmed
(1) All pilots will complete an introduction training program


INFORMATION:

Based on the above we will have four grades of pilots.

1. Captains,
2. Senior First Officer,
3. First Officer and
4. Second Officer.




The minimum qualification for initial employment in category each would be as follows:

➢ Captain: total not less than 4000 hours on aircraft over 50 tonnes. 2000 hours command on type.
➢ SF/O: Total hours sufficient to be issued an ATP, not less than 2000 hours on B737 or equivalent.
➢ F/O: Total hours 1000 not less than 500 on B7373 or equivalent.
➢ S/O: Total hours 200+ with no airline or jet experience.
o No S/O’s will be hired in 2006

The minimum qualification for upgrade to each category:
➢ Captain: Upgrade to Captain requires 4000 hours total time on aircraft over 50 tonnes with not less than 2000 hours on B737 or equivalent, and six months in the company.
➢ SF/O: Hold an ATP, 2000 hours on B737 or similar aircraft over 50 tonnes.
➢ F/O: Total hours 1000 hours with not less than 500 hours on B737 or equivalent and completed their ATP exams


FAQ / Additional information:

➢ Vacation approved and paid by the company 41 calendar days.
➢ Minimum leave days to be booked at anyone time are five
➢ Seniority will be based on date of entry
o Where two pilots join on the same date they will be allocated seniority on heavy jet experience and date of birth.
➢ Promotional opportunities will be offered to internal candidates, which are considered suitable and have the required experience level, ahead of direct entry Captains.
➢ We plan to introduce life style rostering as soon as possible. This will entail giving a block of “OFF” days in each roster period.
➢ The roster period will be a 28 day block.
➢ Roster planning will be based on an equalised roster
➢ The Flight Time limitation will be based of the FAA rules with daily flight hours limits.
➢ The expected flight hours per month will 87 hours.
➢ Bidding for OFF day will be considered.
➢ Transport: we will not provide transport. There is no public transport that is worth talking about so it would be rent a car or take a taxi. We are making an allowance towards transport of $300 per month which is SR 1125. The typical cost from the city centre to the airport is SR 75 each way. From the compounds it is less expensive between SR40 and SR 60. To buy new a Honda civic size is about SR 1000 to 1600 a month, while a top of the range Accord, a Hummer or small Mercedes Benz is SR 1600 to SR 2200 per month.
➢ Accommodation varies greatly, depending on which compound you are living. A single bedroom apartment (mid range) will cost SR 35,000 ($9400) per year up to SR 65,000 ($17400) per year for a three bedroom two bathroom villa. In another compound (the most expensive) a two bedroom two bathroom will cost SR 110,000 ($29,400) per year. We will provide accommodation until your residence (Iquama) permit is issued when you will be in a position to arrange your own accommodation. During that time you will not get the accommodation allowance.
➢ We do not provide any schooling allowance.
➢ Sector pay: a flight from A to B is called a sector, the return flight is a second sector. Most days you can expect to do 4 to 6 sector per day. We will be operating to FAA flight time limitations.
➢ Hours: The objective is to fly as close to 1000 hours per year as possible. From a planning view point that is going to be 950 +/-. We will have a 28 day schedule cycles (block) with 13 cycles in the year. The blocks will not be bid but will be allocated on an equality basis. Everyone will end up with about the same number of hours/sectors per month. After vacation and training is taken out of the productivity picture there will be 11 blocks of 28 days. On that basis you can expect to fly between 80 and 90 hours every 28 days. The schedule will be written around pilot productivity

[arba]

hi Bomos,
that was the package they offer in 2006 with base at RUH,
now they based in DMM, the total is the same but the breakdown is
slightly diferent (housing 2700 USD in DMM , if I'm not mistaken)
Also they (plan to) change the flight allowance HOURLY not per sector.

regards

[wonder]

hi bomos

thank you for the info. are all the pilots from brazil? are you based in riyadh or dammam? what is the best and direct way to apply?

[bomos]

Hello Arba, i can see you have plenty of information in what is about to happen in sama, either you work for the company or have some friends there; yes, there is a discussion to change the sector pay to hourly pay; even the salary is going to be improved. But concerning the info on the package, it serves for those interested in joining, because it's basically the same still.

br

[bomos]

Hy Wonder,
i hope you are fine, the company started with brazilian pilots and some american, now there are another pilots coming from asia and other countries in middle east; the group of pilots is multinational nowadays. The base is in Dammam, but there are plans for one base in Jeddah. the best way to apply is sending a c.v. through the website; good luck.
br

[wonder]

thank you, bomos

[wonder]

is it true that sama is amending and improving its package? if so, when, how, etc.

[piloton]

Anybody knows where to send a resume to SAMA or a PH.# to call??

Thank You...

[mutt]

Do you need a Saudi "No Objection Certificate" to transfer from one Saudi company to SAMA?

Mutt

[bomos]

Hello Wonder, they have improved the package already, it's quite good, let's say 30% more. BR

[ProudHubby]

Arba wrote:
hi Bomos,
that was the package they offer in 2006 with base at RUH,
now they based in DMM, the total is the same but the breakdown is
slightly diferent (housing 2700 USD in DMM , if I'm not mistaken)
Also they (plan to) change the flight allowance HOURLY not per sector.

regards

At US$ 2700 for housing per month, that would givee you enough mullah to stay in those neat Western Compounds around DMM or AKB.

[siddiqi]

Hi all,

this is either the announcement of fantastic flights to SHJ, or has HRH realised he has lost enough watch this space

You are kindly requested to be present today Saturday November 10th at
12H00 - 3rd floor for a staff announcement.


unless you have sold your ID card!!!

[mutt]

Sama are pleased to launch our new charter services to the Emirates, flights start November 15th

Book these incredible launch fares at www.flysama.com now:

Dammam/Sharjah SR one way, including all taxes
Dammam/Abu Dhabi SRone way, including all taxes

Riyadh/Sharjah SR one way, including all taxes
Riyadh/Abu Dhabi SR one way, including all taxes

Good for them... at least now they might have the opportunity to make money...



Mutt

[siddiqi]

less than 5% loadfactors on DMM/SHJ flts. hopefully with al tayaar helping in sales it should improve

[mutt]

What did you expect, they announced the flights on the 12th and started them on the 15th.... I havent seen 1 advertisement for them apart from a "direct email".......

Its good to see them operating internationally.....

Mutt

[kwachon]

Looked everywhere but cannot find what the pay scales are for SAMA Captains, also, is living in Bahrain still the normal accomodation practice.
Would appreciate any info.

KW

[mutt]

Do a search, there is a very detailed report on their salary structure hidden in this forum.

Mutt

[kwachon]

Thanks Mutt, I received the offer letter today and the details previously posted are not accurate. My offer was quite a bit higher.

[747fanatic]

Next training on 29th May in Bahrain. Anyone joining this batch? who has the B737 SIM in Bahrain?

[jetman61]

hi mutt
you don't need a letter but if you are an aramcon they have made a small deal with them to use planes and in return they will not grab their pilots but there is a way around every thing

[mutt]

you don't need a letterI presume that this is in response to post #138.
Ummmm... i keep hearing that you dont need a letter of no objection, but in real life i keep seeing people jumping through hoops trying to get permission to jump across from one company to another without leaving the kingdom. But as you said, this is sandy arabia, so anything is possible with the right "wasta".. :)

747fanatic, I understood that their simulator training was in Casablanca as there are no 737-300 sims in the gulf.

Just to add to the rumors, SAMA are trying to dump 50% of their PSO routes as they arent making money! Unfortunately for them, nobody wants to accept them!

Mutt

[desertopsguy]

Bloody hell my head is spinning after reading that last post...
Not a comma, apostrophe or full stop. It must be funny to listen to too :}

[mutt]

desertopsguy

I presume that you responded to a post by Jetman61 that has since disappeared..... or do i have to go back to skool?? :{:{

Mutt

[jetman61]

spice jet is open and have respect for all nationalities.they have one of the best chief pilots (captain jack [email protected] or go to web site directly)
even the indian management is great (captain dhelon jetti)
good luck
ps it take 2-3 months to get the job check threads by captain andy neveracar..

[speedtwoten]

spice jet is open and have respect for all nationalities what's wrong with FLY SAMA it was run by all Brazilan pilots in the management :{, why should an Brazilian leave FLY SAMA, they are (Brazilian) are in China or Middle East and they try to control the company not to accept other nationalities except Brazilian :\, heard 50 pilots from Brazil went to Emirates last year only less than 10 passed the sim. assesment :eek:also they making trouble in Macao, read the post in Far East forum, AIR MACAO:=

[jetman61]

i was just responding to an old post where a brazilian pilot was asking about jobs in the far east.
also i though delany was running sama.he is a nice gut too.

[speedtwoten]

My dear jetman61, okey I do understand, just wondering why a brazilian asking a job :confused:, normally they control the job opportunity for their blood group :ugh:, and I know there are good brazilian guys but 10 out of 10 millions:ok:

[wonder]

were you rejected by Sama? or just making a statement?

[bomos]

Hello all,

i have seen the statements of this gentleman about nationalities, and SAMA, i would like to say that the company is not run by brazilians, it's a genuine Saudi company and the management is british and american. But if somebody is refused, or not accepted is because he doesn't have the qualification required by the Civil Aviation Authority or the Company. By the way, the enviroment among the pilots is excelent, Brazilians, Americans, Indonesians, Phillipinos, Saudis. It looks very unprofessional and not ethic to read such coments above from another person concerning a peculiar nationality; or it's a lack of info or misunderstanding. The last note, is that SAMA is hiring capable pilots, type rated, with a certain amount of hours to help developing the company, bussiness and aviation in Saudi Arabia and serve better the Kingdom and middle east. Let's keep the standards and ethic in a higher level.

Best Regards.

[speedtwoten]

I'm rejected by FLYSAMA???? I'm sorry not, I'm will not flying with them in their brazillian samba enviroment or apply a job with them:ok:

BOMO just count how many Brazillians working with SAMA, and compare with other nationalities??? who is your Chief Pilot, you must be one of the samba group with your nice statement for SAMA, well the company is not bad at all to serve the Kingdom, but be equal and be proffesional we know a lot of Brazillians need job but how about other nationalities??

[wonder]

if you were not rejected by Sama, so why are you so upset with them. Brazilians or not, it is a human nature to employ people that you feel comfortable with. I am not defending discrimination here.:=

[bomos]

I have to agree with you Wonder, i don't want to understand hard feelings from somebody else, life is an eternal learning process for those interested, best regards.

[mutt]

Hello Wonder and Mutt

Bomos, would you kindly point out any message where i mentioned the nationality of ANYONE working in SAMA! I dont like getting tarred with the racist brush, so would you kindly remove my name from your message.

Mutt

[planepaul]

Does anyone know the work sched. and living
arrangements at sama?

[bomos]

Dear Paul,

all the rules in Saudi Arabia are based on FAA, the company is only one year and a half old(flight operations), has a nice enviroment in the cockpit and has a lot to improve yet; best regards,

[mutt]

The SAMA reputation on the street is BAD.... cancelled flights, re-routed flights, hard landings, charging passengers for things that they arent used to paying for. Incorrect advertised fares that are never available when booking. Additional fees that add 50% to fares.

Considering that SAMA have lost all of their investment capital and the GACA dont appear to be able to release them from the PSO routes, BOMOS do you think that they will still be flying next year?

Mutt

[wonder]

mutt, based on what you've mentioned above, how on earth any airline operating like that can survive. unless the funding is not an issue here.

[bomos]

hello,

low cost, cap fares, fares starting at a price....for a certain number of seats (normal around the globe), paid inflight products (normal in LLC around the globe), domestic cancellations and still an average of 85 % of the flights on time; didn't hear anything about hard landings (there has to be checks for that)... only one year old. There is a lot to improve, people are working for that. there was only one airline before, for ages, they used to be the biggest, now other airlines are bigger and better in the middle east, why? i think the ineficiency of aviation there is a severe condition when rules are not that good. Statistic is showing improvements, lets wait and see, and yes, it will be flying next year.

best regards,

[mutt]

Statistic is showing improvements, lets wait and see, and yes, it will be flying next year. Improvements, I will agree with that as you actually got away from the LCC model of point to point and actually started selling tickets to where people actually want to go... ie.. DMM-URY.

Dont compare yourselves to a goverment airline, the models are completely different. You should be looking at the other LCC's in the region.


Mutt

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

I wouldn't read too much into public sentiment which is riddled with exaggeration, rumour and fear mongering . The Saudi public is good at making mountains out of mole hills.
Saudia isn't spared either. You should hear some of the stuff being said about the "Tabouk crash" and other sensationalist stories.

They are burning lots of cash (NASair likewise), but I think the investors are committed to the project enough for them to weather the storm. They have been very vocal in their lobbying regarding fare caps, PSO and SV's fuel subsidies, and if rumours are to be believed they (and NAS) may be getting a reduction in PSO routes.

[bomos]

Aviation has a lot to improve in the Kingdom, i think the first steps are taken; commitments were made by all involved in the bussiness, to serve well the population. But, it takes time for people to notice. best regards,

[desertopsguy]

Alot of these comments are designed to provoke someone who may know something into reacting and saying something that maybe they shouldn't. Perhaps into disclosing something private...
If you worked at Sama or any other airline it wouldn't be prudent to talk about company capital, investors, future plans etc.
SV are not saints by any stretch, same goes for NAS. If there were 10 well run, profitable companies there will always be one 'know it all' mouth piece with something to say.

For sure in KSA there is no level playing field, too much outside interference for better or worse. Our prince is bigger than your prince, one big swinging richard competition. Every Sheik/prince/emir/sultan and the rest of the made up titles all seem to want to be involved in airlines and good for them. As long as they keep pumping money in; the thing will float.
One of the afformentioned carriers with a mixed bag of aircraft is a good example of this.

My ultimate point is this, trying to predict what will happen to a company in 6/12/18months time, based on standard business practices and market forces (that might apply in the real world)in middle east countries, rarely turns out how you think it will.:rolleyes:

My guess is that they'll all be around in 6/12/18months time.

D.O.G

[wonder]

it is funny to hear that an airline with 5, 6, or even 10 airplanes are so private and should not disclose any info. Ryan and easyjet have their cards open to the public. that is a healthy business.

[desertopsguy]

This is true Wonder; but if you dig deep enough, you will find that very little is 'healthy' in middle east.

If carriers in the EU were operated like these ones, companies like RYR or EZY would have them hauled over the coals of the European court, as they are prone to do.

D.O.G

[Malcontento']

It cannot be not possible to make a company that fails in every department on every day, but Sama can do it. The biggest mess in the Middle East and it gets worse as the days go by. More 50% of pilots have turned in thier resignations now and ALL of the rest are working hard on the CVs to get away from this company as soon as they could. The managment causing problems because they have no experience to do their jobs and no morality to stand behind what it is they say.

[mutt]

Are they still operating?

Mutt

[wonder]

I like this question.

[Desert Diner]

Good question indeed, considering they are offering 50,000 discounted Ramadan seats:confused:

[surfer of desert]

Sama airlines are doing sim section on GF sim "767", they are looking for DEC capt base in JED.

[NG_Kaptain]

What section are they doing on the 767?

[Desert Diner]

The goal for all the new KSA airlines was always to get international routes as they knew they couldn't make a profit on the domestic routes they were given. The question was when. I'm suprised it may be soon.

I guess the next question will be to where. My guess would be the sub continent.

[wonder]

Is it true that Sama is facing pilots exodus?

[T-6]

([email protected])


Saudi Arabian budget carrier Sama (http://www.flysama.com/Sama/English/) is considering suspending all domestic services after concluding that the airline simply cannot operate profitably under the restrictions of the kingdom's domestic fare cap.
In a candid disclosure of the difficulties it is experiencing in the Saudi market, Sama has detailed the heavy losses it is incurring on domestic services within the kingdom.
Sama admits it is losing SR40,000 ($10,700) on every flight on the Dammam-Riyadh route - one of its primary services - and has generated losses of over SR40 million in a year of operating to Medina.
Such has been the scale of the Medina losses that the airline has been forced to withdraw its services from Riyadh and Dammam to the holy city.
Chief executive Andrew Cowen says the economy-fare cap and the increasing cost of fuel are making it "impossible" for Sama to make money on domestic routes.
"Sama's board of directors has instructed the management team to evaluate suspension of all domestic flying until the situation improves and a reasonable return can be made," he says.
"This is not a decision we have taken lightly but we have no choice."
Sama would instead concentrate on its international operations. It has continued its gradual international expansion with new routes from Dammam to Beirut, and Riyadh to Assiut.
Cowen says: "We were regularly filling over 80% of our seats but simply were not able to charge fares that covered the costs of operating to Medina."
In addition to pulling off the Medina route, he says, Sama has halved frequencies on the Dammam-Riyadh connection despite "very respectable" passenger numbers.
While shareholders and the civil aviation administration have supported Sama, Cowen says the airline remains at a disadvantage to flag-carrier Saudi Arabian Airlines which, he claims, receives fuel at a different rate.
He says the Saudi authorities must complete the "unfinished business" of removing the fare cap and equalising fuel charges.

[wonder]

This is old news. What's new?

[mutt]

He also forgot to mention that a lot of their routes are public service routes, hence no competition!

Mutt

[desertopsguy]

No competition isn't the point, you can't polish a turd... Even with a monopoly on every domestic pso route there'd still be no point operating with an outdated fare cap and no governement subsidy.
All they serve is to bring a couple of bedouins from the boonies to the bank!
:ugh:

[hjmemon]

Hi,
Sorry for being bit off the current discussion, but anyone working with Sama, can you please PM me.
Thanks,
HJM

[newscaster]

India will get 767 service.

[mutt]

there'd still be no point operating with an outdated fare cap and no governement subsidy. ..... But didnt they know this before they got the licence? Didnt the research the economics of operating a B737 on routes where even with gov funding, Saudia operated 66 seaters on non-point-point services..... They have bleated about the fuel since day one......

Mutt

[Desert Diner]

I suspect they got some pretty good "Yes Men" for their consultants when they were developing their business case.:}

[747fanatic]

Do they have a base in Bahrain now?

[Willie Everlearn]

I'm speaking with a 'recruiter' at the moment who is looking for B737 DECs, SFOs (for upgrade in six months), and FOs for a Saudi LCC with two bases of operation in the Kingdom. Now, she isn't able to disclose the company's name (there's a surprise) at present but my best guess is SAMA.

Anyone care to comment? Especially if this is a non-starter.

cheers,
Willie

[metro301]

Dammam and Jeddah as a new base. They have been recruiting for months and are the only 737 LCC in the KSA

[mutt]

but my best guess is SAMA..... they are the only B737 LCC operator with -300's..... But there might also be another operator with -NG's.... Expect to see them in the air around Hajj.

Mutt

[wonder]

Is it true that Sama is closing its doors next month, November 2008?

[teddyr61]

did you accept the job and can you give me details on the sim and interview?
thxs,
mike

[teddyr61]

just got the call today for a 2-11-08 interview...any info would be greatly appreciated..written, oral and sim!! any pilots flying for sama give a shout out.
thxs,
mike

[EGGW]

Use the search function and speak English!!!!!!! Gouge means a lots of different things outside the Good 'ol USofA.

EGGW

[teddyr61]

take a look at your own grammar before you start to through stones...i think most of the folks out there know what gouge means..
i'll say it so you can understand..piss off if you can't be helpful...
if i hadn't done a search, and came up with nothing, i wouldn't be posting!!!
hank the yank

[brassplate]

teddyr61,
i suggest you do the pissing off because you just replied to one of the moderators of this forum.
if you can't handle his/her reply, then you sure as hell will not handle the sand pit. so there you go. piss off!!!

[EGGW]

I along with 4holerpoler, try and keep the ME on an even keel, but we get countless repetative posts on the same subjects, with regards to recruitment at countless companies.

Perhaps i was having bad day yesterday and was somewhat less tolerant than i should have been. But when posting, be clear about what you are after and use simple language. Gouge doesn't mean anything to any non Norte Americano, except some action you may perform with a knife. Non English speakers would not have a clue what you are asking about!

I posted an announcement at the top of this forum, that users should firstly look for a current running thread on recruitment at various companies, most users happily comply with this request. Please do so, or i will delete, its the only way to keep this place in some sort of semblance of order.

EGGW

[wonder]

is it true that sama will be grounding its fleet and going with wet lease instead?

[seRIOusGRUdge]

This roumor is not true but I believe that there are different aircrafts coming from another carrier in this region for operating the hajj flights.
It doesnt make sense to ground the aircrafts you have and bring more from another place. There aircrafts will fly in ksa on there regular schedul.

SG

[ironbutt57]

There were a couple stories in the regional news about some low-cost operator in KSA halting domestic flights due to fixed fares, and high fuel prices...but don't remember which one, or if it ever transpired...

[wonder]

It doesnt make sense to ground the aircrafts you have

well, there are many nonsense decisions have been made .........

[teddyr61]

hope not true about november 08..i have an interview then..anyone been there?
thxs,
mike

[Rivera]

seriousgrudge (http://www.pprune.org/members/282679-seriousgrudge) is right, the only reason they are bringing in additional aircraft is for Haj, as they have full operational capacity with thier present fleet, and in haj you cannot go tech

goodluck with interview

[seRIOusGRUdge]

This is the truth Wonder, many obvious simple things have been made to be tough, alot of mistakes. Most of the informations cannot be relied on. This is the 'rumours network' after all but even those inside the company are not always knowing what is truth and what is not. A few people know what is going on, the company future, new aircrafts, new pilots and each few weeks the story is changing. But for sure Im telling you that we have lousy roster, lousy aircrafts that are always with technical problems and for those not living in BAH it is a lousy life style because saudi is not the good place to live. So; we continue on with 2 hopes, 1 hope that things gets better and the other that we find a better place.

SG

[McCain]

News from the management and DFO... :bored:


Dear Sama friend and colleague,

I just wanted to update you on a some key challenges concerning Sama at present.

Many of you will have seen press reports that Sama is considering stopping the flying of domestic routes. Allow me to explain what is going on here.

As many of you know there is a fare cap on domestic routes. This has been in place since around 2000/1 and has not increased to this day despite very significant cost inflation especially fuel. The fare cap is so low that even with extremely high loads, it is impossible for Sama to make money on domestic flying. Because of this, we have steadily reduced the amount of domestic flying that we do and now fly approximately 75% international routes and 25% domestic routes. However, even though over the summer, international routes were break-even and profitable in many cases, despite oil prices peaking over the summer, the losses on domestic routes meant we still lost money. This situation obviously can’t continue and unless we can either get the economy fare cap lifted or receive the same domestic rate fuel that Saudia receives, then we will have to reduce further our domestic flying.

I want to stress that reducing domestic flying means we have more aircraft time to operate international routes. In other words, we will just switch where we fly our aircraft to. So I don’t want anyone to think that reduced domestic flying will result in us grounding aircraft. Switching more aircraft to international flying will be good for Sama but of course we need to have one more go at persuading the government to act in respect of the fare cap/domestic rate fuel. The good news is that the government seems to be listening to what we are saying and hopefully Sama will receive a positive outcome to this issue.

On another much more unhappy note, I sincerely regret and apologise that we have had to delay the processing of the payroll. The issue simply is that the fuel companies and one of our major suppliers have forced us to pay them approximately SR25m in the past few days. In the case of the fuel companies they are requiring us to make extra payments in advance of the Eid holidays, during which time banks will be shut and we will be unable to make normal payments to the fuel companies. I hope you understand that without making payments to the fuel companies, we risk having aircraft grounded and we simply can’t afford to risk this. I’m truly sorry to say that the only way we have been able to make the SR25m of payments is by delaying payroll by a week and using the money we had set aside for payroll. We have simply no choice but do this.

You might ask why this is happening given that the shareholders committed extra financing to Sama? Well again I’m sorry to say that for a variety of good reasons Sama has so far only received approximately 25% of the money committed and most of this has gone to paying outstanding invoices. The shareholders are fully committed to making the full financing available but it will just take a bit more time to complete. No-one should doubt that Sama continues to have the full support of the shareholders.

I realise that there is a lot of unhappiness from all our staff that payroll keeps coming late. Especially also at this time as we are about to start the Eid holidays. I promise you that if we had an alternative solution then we would have taken it. But we really have absolutely no choice as of course we must keep the airline flying. These challenges will only makes us stronger as one team to become the best, safest and most efficient Low Fare Carrier in the Middle East as we fly forward together.

If anyone faces undue hardship because of this, then please can they let their director know and we will do our best to help.

I really want to emphasise that going forward, prospects for Sama remain very positive. We have nearly reached profitability/cash break-even despite record fuel prices and the fare cap. And we have the bulk of the shareholders funds still to be received. We are also just about to launch a very significant Hajj programme and there are many other positive initiatives underway. We simply have to get through this.



Dear All,
It seems like we move from one crisis here at Sama to another, but like many other things in life especially as those of you with family and children will attest, today’s crisis soon fades and goes away and we are left with at least two things to deal with. One is the next crisis that is looming on the horizon and the other is HOW WELL DID I JUST HANDLE THIS CRISIS. Life is for learning and life at Sama is no different from life anywhere else on the planet. So first of all lets look at how to answer this first question; Once we get through the next week and salaries are paid, what is the next crisis for Sama to handle. If we have kept cool and have not created additional problems for ourselves in the course of handling CRISIS #1, the answer is to continue with our business plan of building an airline in the Middle East in a country and region that has everything that it takes to build a successful and profitable venture. Sama is one of 3 airlines in the most oil rich country in the world with one of the highest per capita incomes in the entire Middle East. Everywhere we go both domestic and international flights are full of passengers who want to go to the places that we are flying. Domestically there are 2 issues that we face as you may have seen in some of the recent press releases: FARE CAP, which prevents us from covering our costs because we cannot raise fares in Saudi Arabia, and; HIGH FUEL COSTS, because Saudi Arabia has not yet approved selling Sama fuel for the same price that it sells to Saudia. You have heard this from our CEO and see it in the press. If either of these 2 issues are overcome so that we can raise fares domestically and/or reduce our fuel costs on the magnitude that it appears may be possible, Sama will be instantly profitable and sitting on an international and domestic network with the greatest potential for profitability anywhere in the Middle East and most probably anywhere in the world. If we are not successful in achieving either of these “external” wins, then we have proven that Sama as it grows its international network can (and will) be profitable purely on the merits and execution of our International business plan, which is, FLYING SAUDIS AND OTHER ARAB PASSENGERS TO AND FROM KSA WHICH IS THE SINGLE BIGGEST CATCHMENT AREA WITH THE HIGHEST PER CAPITA INCOME IN THE ME. We are here, we have the business plan, we have the resources and backing of our investors, we have the cash flow from good operations, now all we have to do is weather the crises that come upon every start up airline that has ever come into existence, without screwing it up ourselves in the process.

OPERATIONS: The method that we use to generate not just the offset to all of our costs, but to make a profit and to grow as an airline is obviously the operation itself. With 6 aircraft we fly on average 42 flights per day and generate 350,000 SAR ($93,000 USD) per aircraft [this is based on 7 flight per day; 450 SAR average fare and 75% load factor]. If there is an interruption to the schedule that prevents us from flying these flights then we not only loose the revenue that would have been generated by those flights totaling almost $100,000 per aircraft but we incur big expenses as well. First of all after a 3 hour delay we are subject to returning the fare to the passenger; in most cases we are obligated to either book them on another Sama flight or purchase tickets for them from another airline and expenses for hotel and or meals as well. The consequences, just so you know, of canceling a flight are the loss of the revenue which we have put at $100,000 per aircraft per day and the liability of having to rebook and purchase tickets on other airlines that we can put at least as great as the loss in revenue or another $100,000 for the day. The combined loss of revenue and cost for canceling flights can run upwards of $200,000 per day that does not make its way into Sama bank account to handle all of those items that need to be paid, Fuel, Aircraft leases, Maintenance and most important of all for each of us, Employee Salaries.

Let me get to the point of the email here. There are those of you who are very disturbed (and rightly so) about not having salaries paid on time and the fact that it is over Eid is also very troubling. I am upset as well and will deal with this in my own way as you will in your own way. What we cannot do is to make the mistake of saying that because Sama (the company) has not paid me on time, I am entitled to withhold my services and not accept duties that are assigned. We are seeing some individuals that are refusing to fly out right; we are seeing some others that say that they are “not fit to fly” and are removing themselves from the schedule. As history here at Sama shows, when this kind of behavior begins, precipitated by whatever event (late payment of salary, not enough leave time, dissatisfaction with schedule), those who refuse their commitments to Sama begin a chain of events that has in the past and will in the future, rob our company of the very opportunities that it needs to rectify the situation that has caused the late payments. That being a short fall in revenue produced. If you do not fly when it is your duty to fly, you yourself become PART OF THE PROBLEM and you set yourself apart from those of us who choose to remain PART OF THE SOLUTION. Please do not ground our aircraft and shift your own responsibilities to your fellow pilots and/or flight attendants and thereby delay yours and everyone else’s salary being paid in the process.

The crisis that we face will not be solved by emotional responses that hurt and hinder the airline in its production and generation of revenue. It will only be made worse. Now is the time to pull together and get through this crisis as we are making progress on many fronts to make Sama the airline that each of us can be proud of. Here are a few of the improvements and changes that have recently been agreed to:
·COMMITMENT TO AT LEAST 8 DAYS OFF PER MONTH. While we were not entirely successful with this one for last month, days OFF were increased to 7 and there is a positive path to achieving greater utilization of our crews and better Rosters in the future. Please remember that a high number of sick or no-shows is the quickest way to ensure that days scheduled OFF get used up in required roster changes.
·EXPENSES. Sama will begin a new policy on October 1st that pays meal expenses as a function of hours away from base. HR will email and distribute the details of the policy very shortly, but the summary of the policy is as follows: For every hour away from Base, Sama will pay flight and cabin crew at a rate of 7.5 SAR for meal expenses. This totals 180 SAR per 24 hour period. These meal expenses will be paid along with Salary and sector pay each month. Breakfast will continue to be included with hotel and meals provided for crew on board the aircraft will continue. If actual expenses incurred are greater than the 180 SAR paid per day, the difference may still be claimed according to Sama expense policy.
·OTHER. Andrew has highlighted that we are in the processing of securing additional aircraft allowing a dedicated spare aircraft at both our bases of DMM and JED. This is a costly investment but designed to improve operational reliability, which has been one the of the most unsatisfactory issues for all of us to date. There are numerous other issues that are in the process of being rectified and the Sama that you see in 6 months will definitely be a better place to work.

We must protect our operation as this is what ultimately pays (as explained above) each of your salaries. As such our policies for unapproved Sick, No-Show and Refusal to fly will be upheld without exception. These are policies designed to protect those of you who do your part day in and day out to make Sama a great place to work and continue to be the source of our salaries and security for ourselves and our families.

[mutt]

SAMA need the Saudi Government to subsidize them in the same manner as they subsidize a 100% wholly owned flag carrier airline, what’s the point? What’s in it for the government?

Mutt

[hjmemon]

can anyone confirm the name of the undersigned of the above (long) letter.
PM if required.
HJM

[wonder]

seRIOusGRUdge (http://seriousgrudge) any comments regarding the memo from management. It seems to me typical, from a bunch of guys having fun and getting wealthy in the middle east. I thought the management are from Brazil.

[Panama Jack]

Where was the market study by the investors (the founders) of this airline? Wasn't it known that there is a price cap in the Kingdom? Or is this just a case of a Prince wanting to have his own hobby airline? :rolleyes:

[seRIOusGRUdge]

These letters was a motivation speech for the hardworking staff who were not going to be paid on time, now everyone is wondering if the salary will come on the date its supposed to. The truth is when the salary comes, it's not so bad really, it is good money.
The managements are not from Brazil, not really. True that the management pilots are mostly from Varig but flighit operations director is from USA, a good guy. The office management is from many other countries like UK and US and some others in middle east.
If they are becoming wealthy? perhaps, but they are not there becasue they like the place so money is the only motivating thing.

[mutt]

Its nice to have some positive news about SAMA, they have announced flights to India starting next Jan with fares starting at SAR199..... It was interesting to see that their chief executive is 1: Still in his position! (NAS are on their 3rd or 4th) and 2: He doesnt want people to consider them a low cost airline.

They will also introduce 5 more aircraft in 2009, types not mentioned.

Mutt

[Rivera]

I heard that salaries are not paid until now, if true it is a bad indicator.

Having the same CEO does not necessarily mean competence, or good thing. It is the same if someone is changed, does not mean the person is incompetent.

Maybe Sama needs a change, if they are unable to pay salaries. As per the memo they seem to have reduced domestic flight where they are not making money to minimum, what is the problem now.

[Dustwing]

hy, the name on the letter was the CEO's.... i believe it's better for any pilot to avoid joining this company right now, not only salaries have been delayed, since february.
Management is from UK, pilots from brazil, indonesia, philipines and KSA; some have already resigned and the others are looking for jobs. 16 hours duty time, until last month only 4 days off in the roster, airplanes are old and management is not looking for new equipment. Airbus or Ng only for the Hajj, no 767 at all. Overnight accommodation is the worse possible, no respect for rest or day off; unprofessional policy coming from the top, a lot of mistakes and lies from the top....

br

Duster

[McCain]

No salary until now. They delayed for another week or maybe more, inshala. Couldnt agree more with you Dustwing, dont come unless you have no job and want to sign the bond $ 25,000 for an old plane rating. :bored:

[hjmemon]

@McCain,
are they willing to take fresh pilots. Got 920 hours, no type rating. even willing to sign the so-called $25000 bond as long as they give me something to fly.

[Rivera]

Wonder if Sama is the customer, heard they are getting 4 planes in 2009, and their fleet is really old

From another thread


http://static.pprune.org/images/infopop/icons/icon4.gif EgyptAir gets rid of it's B737-500s
Finally Egyptair sold it's fleet of 4 b737-500s, scheduled to be delivered to buyer at January 2009. the planes came in service early 90s.

Currrently EgyptAir has 5 B737-800s with 7 more on Boeing delivery list. Held back by the strike at Boeing the next delivery was postponed to March 2009 instead of December 2008.

Seen at this link is one of the planes with no color scheme in preperation of the sale.

JetPhotos.Net Photo » SU-GBK (CN: 26052) EgyptAir Boeing 737-566 by GregoryK (http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6350114&nseq=3)

[Pequena_Inquieta]

Any question the prophet will answer.
Pilots are from Brazil

Ok... since you are willing to answer all questions, tell me something...

Have they hired any pilots lately? Like, 2 or 3 months ago?

Thanks

[Dustwing]

hy, they are trying to hire experienced people, but requirements are getting higher with training bond... right now, no chance for low hour or non type rated. I regret, but i have to agree with the prophet.

Duster

[Pequena_Inquieta]

Thanks for the answer.
What happens is that I know this pilot who said he was going to Sama and reading all these posts I ended up believing it was not possible and he was lying.
He was flying in a brazilian airline (that we know which one it is, but I prefer not to mention it) and one day just decided to get out of the country because the airline wasn´t good enough. But that´s another subject and I agree with him.
Looks like he didn´t make the right choice though... :suspect:

[mutt]

I thought that the concept of a cheap fare was that at least they existed on "some" flights.... Having received their advertisement for Mumbai flights, I tried booking for Mar, no flights available, Feb, same thing. Jan cheapest worked out to be 1600 SAR r/t! Thats a big difference from 199 SAR o/w.

Now i understand why the CEO stated that they were not to be considered a low cost airline!

Mutt

[Dustwing]

There are some masters of advertisement around... 199,00 to 1600,00. The fare exists, but how many seats you never know. regards,

Duster

:ugh:

[hjmemon]

@ DustWing and Prophet, Thanks for the info. I almost knew that would be the answer. but anyways thanks for confirming.
Not sure when would i get a chance into airline and guess have to stick up with being a flight instructor for the time being.......(no luck with the cadet pilot programmes yet. for one i am over qualified:})

[ShinjukuHustler]

:sad: is the feeling.

[Dustwing]

Anyway,

keep faith in your goals, it will happen. Do not relax on gathering information on daily basis, you will catch the chance sooner or later. regards,

Duster

[hjmemon]

Anyway,

keep faith in your goals, it will happen. Do not relax on gathering information on daily basis, you will catch the chance sooner or later. regards,

Duster

Is that for the low-houred with no-rating?

[7four7]

Very good chances. You got the minimum requirements and they are desperate for FOs. They will call you.

[Dustwing]

Hy, of course it's for the low hours ones; they plan to have a cadet program. cheers, duster.

[Dustwing]

:ok: Via the website, www.flysama.com (http://www.flysama.com), good luck

[chrislikesblue]

I sent them email but no reply.Anyone has any contact tel of the person in charge of recruitment?

[cadet_hani]

I didnt found any job post of cadet pilot programme on their website:S Could you please help me ? Regards

[Dustwing]

For cadets only in the future, not now. Like the prophet said, Etihad and Oman already have it. But salaries are still being delayed. regards, duster.

[mutt]

Whilst SAMA may start a cadet program, i would be extremely surprised if they accepted foreign nationals, hiring Saudis is a much better investment as they know that they will stay, foreigners wont!

Mutt

[Dustwing]

I have to agree that Saudis would stay, but if the number is not enough they will probably hire cadet expats and keep a bond in their contracts until they pay back the investment. Actually, it would be nicer to see some changes at the top management.... and salaries on time, best regards Mutt.

Duster

[mutt]

probably hire cadet expats

If the concept of a cadet is someone with no experience who will be sent to flight school and trained, then they will never get work visas for foreigners.

But as you said, it would be nicer to see them get their act together and start paying people on time.

Mutt

[Slow Down]

Can anyone please tell me whether it is usual for Sama to impose a US$25,000 bond for 3 years on experienced B737-300 type rated and current SFO's? Shouldnt the bond be for less money / time?

[Dustwing]

Sama CEO has announced he is resigning and being replaced on december 1st; changes are coming, finally... best regards,

Duster

:D

[in FACT is]

IF YOU ARE NOT BRAZILLIAN forget to joint FLY SAMA:ugh: the sim assesment in B767 even the CP doesn't have the rating they are looking for B737 Commander who can fly B767 perfectly on the sim (samba brain:confused:)

[wonder]

SAUDI ARABIA. Sama, the newest low fare airline in Saudi Arabia, announced today that Bruce Ashby would be joining Sama with effect 1 December 2008 to succeed Andrew Cowen, CEO and co-founder of Sama. After nearly four years leading the start-up and initial growth phase of Sama, Cowen decided that on expiry of his contract with Sama in December 2008 it was time to hand over the day to day management of Sama to a new CEO, to help take Sama through the next phase of its growth.
Sama Chairman, HRH Prince Bandar Bin Khalid AlFaisal, said: “I would like to thank Andrew for his relentless efforts and huge contribution that made Sama what it is today. Despite many obstacles, he has brought into being the common vision we both shared from our very first meeting, of a quality, low fares airline for Saudi Arabia and the Middle East. At the same time, I would like to welcome Bruce Ashby as a valuable addition to the Sama family.
We look forward to Bruce continuing to take Sama forward, as we seek to become the leading and best low fares airline throughout the Middle East.”

Bruce Ashby, former President and Chief Executive Officer of IndiGo Airlines, one of India’s most aggressive low fares carriers, has a strong airline background. Ashby led Indigo Airlines as President and CEO for three years through its launch and initial growth. Prior to IndiGo he served as the Executive Vice President-Marketing and Planning of US Airways. He also handled finance, operations, corporate development, planning and marketing at earlier stages in his career at US Airways.
Andrew Cowen, CEO of Sama said: “Leading Sama on behalf of Prince Bandar, the shareholders and the board, from inception through to its successful launch and expansion, has been an honour and a privilege.
"With Sama having achieved profitability in August and September of this year, with 1.5 million guests carried to date and with an international route network spanning the Middle East, now I believe is the right time to hand over the day to day leadership of Sama. I extend my best wishes to Bruce who takes on a great Sama team without which, none of Sama’s considerable accomplishments would have been possible."
Bruce Ashby said: “I am very honoured and excited to take on the opportunity of continuing the development and growth of Sama, which has quickly established itself as one of the leading, emerging new airlines in the Middle East. I look forward to working with the board and Sama team to take Sama through the next stage of its expansion.”

[SilicaStorm]

That is only a start BBK! Don't stop there!
Hopefully this new CEO flushes the rest down; especially the CFO and COO. Sure the mistress CB will follow AC shadow anyways, the MB removal with be a cancer cure to the subterranean moral in the FLTOPS. JG is the man to hold the fort till BA sandblasts down the corrosion to bare metal and preps for a new paint. :ok:

I don't need to repeat this thread says it all!

[MondayGrouch]

Silica - with JG that's what you'll get -- holding the fort but not moving anything forward. Perfectly nice gentleman and good at his job, but not the one to lead ops. Probably knows BA from USAir days, so that relationship will be interesting.

Any feedback from anyone at Indigo about BA?

Change not a bad thing, but unless BA can, with the sweep of his hand, change the fare caps, PSO routes, fuel price, etc. then Sama will be in the same cash position as before. At least it's better than NAS -- that has been the ultimate management revolving door.

If government changes do happen, I predict you will see Sama growing fast. Let's hope BA is up to it.

[Dustwing]

Regarding the bond in contracts, i don't believe it will hold anyone; it's not the best practice and what should happen is the company to provide quality accomodation on overnights, respecting rest periods and days off. The assessment on boeing 767 sim at gulf facilities it's the only boeing sim in the place where the company is using for ground training, the sim session is simple enough for those who can handle an airplane without auto pilot on a single engine acft and to manage the situation. Sama crews are multinational, brazilians were just the ones to start the operations there.

Duster
:ugh:

[747fanatic]

For life in Saudi unless they provide a commuting schedule. Sama will always have crew retention problems.

[mikey26]

Hi there
could you please pass me on some Information for the INTERWIE with SAMA ?
thanks

[ClearedToCrush]

If they are really short of pilots why they dont even reply to applications?
What are the requirements?

[bizjetbus]

I got reply within 48 hrs. After reading the information on here I don't think Ill be going for interview though.......:eek:

bjb

[arba]

Malcontento : More 50% of pilots have turned in thier resignations now and ALL of the rest are working hard on the CVs to get away from this company as soon as they could.

The Prophet : Good point and 100% truth

you guys are wrong ! only this is true :

The Worst

people keep coming in, the F/Os are aiming for upgrades (by friends).

[chrislikesblue]

Bizjetbus did you use the email contact that its on website?Anyone have any tel number of any person who is in charge,i need to call for follow up of my application.
Thanks.

[TCPILOT]

Can anyone shed some light on the following questions;

-Do they allow commuting, or do you and family have to based in KSA
-Does the company have any inter-airline agreements to benefit from ZED fares?
-What is the companies future intentions on fleet expansions? will there be any, if so how many and what type etc...
-Do they only operate 2 x B737-300
-Where will the recurrent sim trainings take place for current crew.
-What is the current atmosphere amongst the cockpit crew and in the company in general.
-Is there any change in the Pilot salary scale from last posted in 2007?

Thanks in advance for the information.
:cool:

[Dustwing]

no commuting, no zed's or interlines or agreements on that, base is jeddah, 6x 737'300's, nobody knows about expansion or types in the future, simulator is in casablanca, environment in the cockpit is good, about the company not so good... 14k capt, 10k sf/o.

bye