ATC SHEFFIELD AREA [Archive]

bigflesh2005

3rd Apr 2006, 10:20

Hello all. I was just wondering if anyone knows, but currently a/c ex DSA turn right and go to Goles before going to POLEHILL and MCR or OTTRINGHAM. Instead of going north to go south, why don't they go DIRECT TRENT for example. This would cut a lot of time off and help matters. Also, if they did this, they would go over my house, which would be great as I'd see them at about 8,000ft as they go towards TRENT. They could then get into the airways at TRENT and go to DAVENTRY etc. It looks so good on the map.

Are there any plans to streamline current DSA i/b's and o/b's?

I sometimes see a/c over my house turning right towards DSA, so not all of the planes seem to route MCR POL GOLES, sometimes the seem to have direct navigation to (wherever) which sends them over my house from the south (approx south sheffield area) and then a right turn towards Doncaster Sheffield Airport. I usually see these a/c's in the summer when there is NO cloud.

I also see other a/c's too. Usually ex MAN (Emerites and Pakisran International Airways). They go west to east. Are these on a DIRECT routing to the north sea? They used to route OTTRINGHAM didnt they?

Of real interest though is in the summer, when the early hours greek and turkey charters come in - east to west at approx 6,000feet to 4,000feet. These come right over the south side of Sheffield. Are these on a DIRECT to MAN routing? Sometimes I have seen them a bit further north in the early morning sky. If there are any MAN RADAR controllers reading my thread, please can you send some more over south sheffield as its really interesting to these planes. Also, I have just thought, but what happens if the police helicopter is out? Will the planes drive around it or does the helicopter have to move out of the way? Because, the helicopter will not be under control of MANCHESTER RADAR, so how can MAN RADAR vector a passenger plane around it? Might be worth bearing in mind if DIRECT MANCHEST off of the north sea is goining to be continued.

Any of your comments would be appreciated as I am really enjoying the airplanes in my vicinity. I also see high up contrail stuff too - going south to north.

I look forward to responses. thank you.

snbower

3rd Apr 2006, 11:38

OK,

"Hello all. I was just wondering if anyone knows, but currently a/c ex DSA turn right and go to Goles before going to POLEHILL and MCR or OTTRINGHAM."

Aircraft in general follow standard departure routes (SIDS) which at DSA (except eastbound traffic) takes them through GOLES. GOLES is probably the nearest airways reporting point to DSA. In general, commercial traffic will fly through controlled airspace alongh airways. From GOLES (just west of Stainforth) aircraft can take route L975 westwards or Y70 northwards. Additionally aircraft need to at FL70 or above because the base of controlled airspace at GOLES is FL65. Naturally, depending on the level of traffic in the area, and airspace restrictions, Manchester area controllers may offer the flight a more direct routing. Within controlled airspace, the controller can vector the aircraft at will (almost!)

"Instead of going north to go south, why don't they go DIRECT TRENT for example. This would cut a lot of time off and help matters. Also, if they did this, they would go over my house, which would be great as I'd see them at about 8,000ft as they go towards TRENT. They could then get into the airways at TRENT and go to DAVENTRY etc. It looks so good on the map."

This could take them out of controlled airspace, which is in general, a no-no for commerical traffic. Strictly, southbound departures would travel to Manchester then south, however moreoften that not, I imagine they'll be given a more direct routing. FYI, TRENT is on the eastern side of controlled airspace, which in general handles northbound traffic, with southbound on the western side.

chevvron

3rd Apr 2006, 11:44

Standard Departure routes are NOT the same as SID's, as they are in class G airspace, and do not constitute clearance to enter controlled airspace.

snbower

3rd Apr 2006, 11:56

Thanks Chevrron for that. You are indeed correct.

bigflesh2005

4th Apr 2006, 09:36

thank you for respondin to me.

UNDERTHEROSUN1F

4th Apr 2006, 13:24

regarding DSA departures/arrivals it really depends on where the a/c is going to/coming from.GOLES is the CAS joining point for most of the departures,as most of the traffic is heading to the south west,traffic routing to the south east joins at ROGAG.After GOLES generally traffic routes to MCT before turning south or south west.The Dublin traffic tracks towards WAL.Inbound traffic routes via TNT/MCT depending on where it is coming from,then to UPTON and/or GOLES,but dependant on the traffic can sometimes route direct the FNY.Inbound traffic from the S/E comes in via OTBED.POL will very rarely be used by DSA traffic as there is no routes up that way at the moment.Also OTR is not used generally as this is no longer in the airways system for our traffic.It would seem more logical to route direct TNT/DTY but the airways/air routes have to be stuck to.
Inbound Manchester traffic from the S/E,ie the traffic you will see,now comes in via OTBED and GOLES and then either goes for a straight in approach or has to the ROSUN 1F arrival via POL.Outbounds from MAN to the S/E now go via DOLAS,this is the traffic that now routes to teh south of Sheffield.High flyers south to north are routing to POL,HALIF or REMSI,
south east to north west are routing to REMSI or PENIL.The old UPPER BLUE 1 and UPPER RED 4 airways via OTR no longer exist.A good idea is to buy the Aerad charts for these areas,also do you have a scanner,with one of these you will be identify most of what you see.

UNDERTHEROSUN1F

4th Apr 2006, 14:07

forget to mention the police chopper,don't worry about it colliding with the commercial traffic it doesn't go high enough,the biggest danger is the cessna's and piper's that patrol south yorkshire,but most (not all !) of these and the police heli are in contact with the tower at DSA or Donny Radar ...

bigflesh2005

4th Apr 2006, 19:26