Yeovilton or Culdrose [Archive]

Tim McLelland

1st Apr 2006, 19:24

Suppose everything depends on which airfields survive. It's unlikely that the MoD will be able to justify the continuation of Yeovilton when there's hardly any helo traffic there and a very active base at Culdrose, and of course Yeovilton has already been ruled-out as a potential F-35 (or Typhoon) base (supposedly because the runway isn't long enough - funny how it was long enough for Phantoms and V-Bomber dets, but evidently not long enough for a new vstol aircraft!).

On the other hand, all of the FAA's top brass, past and present, probably lives much nearer Yeovilton, so you can imagine that there will be plenty of support and lobbying for keeping the airfield open for purely selfish reasons (not that I'd suggest for a minute that any Navy chiefs would act in this way *ahem*). But moving all of the helo assets from Culdrose would be politically-risky too, as it would inevitably destroy Helston's local economy and probably much more besides.

Logically, the best plan would be to close both airfields and hand-over St.Mawgan to the FAA, as it has a huge runway, a full shelter complex, an enormous servicing hangar, and a blossoming local airport which depends on MoD support (the council claim that they can't afford crash/rescue themselves). It would also be hugely expensive to return the airfield to its pre-use condition, and it probably has zero value as development land, because of it's "green" location. At least it would keep some jobs in Cornwall should Culdrose be disposed-of, but I don't imagine the idea would be too popular with Yeovilton!

It really is very difficult to predict what will happen with all three bases at present. Guess we'll have to wait and see, but it must be pretty unlikely that all three bases will survive.

L1A2 discharged

1st Apr 2006, 22:01

Tim,

It has already been announced that military flying at St Mawgan is to cease - its got about 2 years to go. :sad:

Widger

1st Apr 2006, 22:10

Mr Mclelland,

If this is some journo troll, then you have suceeded. As a journo, your lack of awareness of what goes on at Yeovilton is of concern. Even though the Shar has gone, the base is still the home of 845, 846 and 848 sqns, 702 and 815 (the largest helicopter sqn in europe), Jetstreams of Heron Flight and Hawks of RNFSF. That does not include Histerical Flight either. The place is still busy and still has more aircraft than the average RAF Station. I suggest you do some more research before you start prophesying the demise of Culdrose and Yeovilton...One thing IS for sure......St Mawgan is going.

Oh and by the way...the basing decision for JCA was due to environmental issues, not the length of the runway!

I forgot to mention that it is also the home of the FAA Museum, the Defence Helicopter Support Agency, the RN Flight Safety and Accident Investigation Centre, The Aircraft Control School, the Fighter Control School, and an important NATO organisation!

WE Branch Fanatic

1st Apr 2006, 22:28

Oh and by the way...the basing decision for JCA was due to environmental issues, not the length of the runway!

Don't you mean political?

WE Branch Fanatic

2nd Apr 2006, 09:35

Unless Sea King Mk4 gets replaced by a green Merlin........

timex

2nd Apr 2006, 09:56

VL, close to a few large towns (keep SWMBO happy!), not far from M5 and A303 so good escape routes for the w-end. Quite a few good schools in the local area.

Bruiser Loose

2nd Apr 2006, 10:52

Depends if you would rather drink zider or spingo, I suppose.

Isn't it funny how chopped FJ pilots can never say 'chopped?'

;)

Junglie

2nd Apr 2006, 11:02

Wind your neck in Bruiser he wasn't chopped, he is as he says, a re-tread.

Hey Weasel old buddy get yourself to Yeovilton and become a junglie, at least you'll be doing something useful with the big bus then.
Culdrose sucks apart from if you are single for about 4 weeks in the summer!! As i know you aren't then come Cider country i'll get you a pint in the bar...

Bruiser Loose

2nd Apr 2006, 12:18

Hit a raw nerve have I, Bunglie? Had a few air warnings at Valley, did you?

Tim McLelland

2nd Apr 2006, 12:24

Widger, your snotty attitude aside (which I'm sure we could all do without), my posting is not a "journo troll" (I think you've been reading too many copies of The Sun) it's a posting as part of a discussion, intended for people who want to discuss this subject, okay? Having been an aviation writer for over 25 years, I certainly wouldn't have any need to seek any advice from you, thanks very much.

The point is (for those who want a discussion, not an argument!) that Yeovilton no longer supports any fixed-wing activity, and the helicopter operations are patently insufficient to justify the base's survival, especially when Culdrose is taken into account. But as I already said, I think it's fair to say that the FAA will do their best to hang-on to Yeovilton for as long as possible, even though the existence of both Yeovilton and Culdrose must look unattainable from "bean-counter" point of view.

As for the F-35 (JSF), contrary to your comments Widger, the official MoD reason given for excluding Yeovilton from the saga was runway length, not environmental issues.

As for your sweeping comments about St.Mawgan Widger, nothing is for certain at all (and the use of captial letters doesn't change that fact!).

L1A2 - the future of St.Mawgan is still unclear. Flying activity is indeed going to be wound-up as you say (probably by the end of this year, not in two years), but the MoD hasn't made any plans to sell-off the base. For starters, the US Navy do not plan to leave just yet, and the future of the airport hasn't been settled. St.Mawgan is still on the MoD's list as a potential F-35 site and in view of it's strategic location, huge runway (9,000 x 300ft), HAS complex, extensive hardstandings and hangarage, it's obviously not going to be abandoned easily. It appears that (like many other airfields) the MoD would be obliged to return the airfield to its former state before disposing of it (not much chance of that happening, especially when it's effectively two airfields joined together) and there's no opportunity to redevelop the land because it's smack in the middle of Cornwall's countryside.

As I said previously, the logical decision would be to consolidate the Navy's rotary and fixed-wing assets at St.Mawgan (it would be the perfect shore base for whatever aircraft we ultimately select for carrier operation), but as ever, logic probably won't have much to do with the final decision:)

Bruiser Loose

2nd Apr 2006, 12:39

Mr McLelland,

Have to agree with Widger, I'm afraid. There is more to Yeovilton than a few puff jets that used to be on the south of the airfield (almost typed southside there, phew). It is an extremely busy helicopter base with many other organisations who make up the entire Air Station.

I can't see how the demise of the Sea Harrier will affect any decision on its future. Besides, Culdrose is equally as busy and I doubt there would be much room there for any more squadrons.

Tim McLelland

2nd Apr 2006, 14:25

Bruiser, there are certainly plenty of units located at Yeovilton but you have to look at things from the MoD's point of view. Lots of units doesn't necessarily equate to lots of physical flying activity, and ultimately that's the only reson an airfield's existence can be justified. Non-flying units can obviously be re-located, or partitioned-off from the actual airfield, as looks likely to happen at Scampton for example.
But as I've already said, nothing's certain, and it remains to be seen what will happen. However I think it's a pretty safe bet that Yeovilton, Culdrose and St.Mawgan certainly won't stay in their current state for all that long. Ooh, this is where I came-in at posting #6!

Widger

2nd Apr 2006, 15:28

Mr McLelland, You may have been an aviation journo for 25 years but that dose not mean you are correct. I think you should reserve your musings to writing about the Vulcan and keep well clear of subjects which you obviously haven't got a clue about. There is no room at Culdrose and Yeovilton will remain busy for a good few years yet. Even when the Shars were embarked it was still a busy place. I suggest you direct your attention towards a Service that re-opens an airfield just for 9 aircraft and them sends everything else it can find (even though there are perfectly good bunkers) into the place, just to justify it's existance. The rub will come when the whole of the A1 is covered in controlled airspace and those bases such as St Mawgan, Chivenor and Brawdy are covered in trees!

Did my attitude come across as snotty....good it was meant to!

Tim McLelland

2nd Apr 2006, 16:56

Widger, I'd be grateful if (for the sake of others using this forum) you could avoid wandering-off into vaguely abusive comments at every opportunity. What point is there to this? A forum is supposed to be a place to discuss topics, and if you have a view then by all means share it, but please don't assume that your view is any better than anyone else's. I've offered my thoughts and I corrected a minor point which you mentioned previously, that's all. If you don't agree with my comments that's fine - I don't agree with yours either, but could we stop this childishness please?

I've noted your comments however but I think you're looking at this from a naval point of view. Can you not understand that things undoubtedly look very different from the MoD's position where they are ultimately dis-interested in which particular service operates from any given airfield? Although Culdrose is already credited as being Europe's busiest helicopter base, it doesn't mean that they don't have sufficient capacity for Yeovilton's helicopters too. But you have to weigh-in the consideration that there's a huge airfield sitting empty over on the other side of Cornwall, and there doesn't seem to be any obvious way to dispose of it economically. Admittedly, I don't imagine for a minute that the navy would be relocated to St.Mawgan, even though it would probably be the most sensible arangement, but you can see how all of these factors have to be considered, and this is why I (and lots of other people) don't think the future of all three bases is all that clear.

Bismark

2nd Apr 2006, 17:05

The point is (for those who want a discussion, not an argument!) that Yeovilton no longer supports any fixed-wing activity, and the helicopter operations are patently insufficient to justify the base's survival, especially when Culdrose is taken into account.
Tim,
The last time I visited Yeovilton for a presentation it was made clear to me that the station will remain the largest (by a/c number) military air station in Europe and the busiest by a/c movements. If the Army decide to move their Lynx there then there will be more than 120 helos and fixed wing operating. Culdrose is also chockers with Merlin, Sea King and Hawks so no room in there.
The FAA seems alive and well (including 800 Sqn stood up with GR7s) and can fully justify their 2 1/2 air stations (the 1/2 is COTT which we seem to be taking over).
Fly Navy

airborne_artist

2nd Apr 2006, 17:05

Tim McC

I like your tenacity, but can you back up your suggestions with figures? Can you tell us, for example, what percentage of the facilities an RN squadron needs are free at CU, and whether there are the MQs, and spare space in the wardroom and other messes?

Having done so can you then tell us what the ROI is on moving all the VL flying assets to CU, and moving out the non-flying assets to CU or other vacant sites, and whether these too have all the spare facilities?

Cheers :ok:

timex

2nd Apr 2006, 17:13

I don't imagine for a minute that the navy would be relocated to St.Mawgan, even though it would probably be the most sensible arangement,

Tim, 50% of the Aircraft at Yeovilton are Grey Lynx who spend a quite considerable time training with shipping off the S Coast. 50 mile transit therefore lots of time training. How long from St M. to Portland sea areas?

The other 50% are the Junglies, main job of moving troops and stores. They are very close to SPTA, Dartmoor and the troops they support.

Why would it be beneficial for them to move to St M.? As was said earlier try not to forget the rest of the infrastructure at VL. Some were forgotten..Dunker, Fighter controllers school, and not forgettng Navy Standards.

Tim McLelland

2nd Apr 2006, 17:15

airborne-artist, my answers simple - you just have to look at what the MoD has done over the past few years. You can make Yeovilton look as hectic as you like but I (and lots of other people I hasten to add) seriously doubt if it looks that convincing to the "bean-counters" in Whitehall. Okay, moving Army assets to VL might help, but it still doesn't address the long-term future of St.Mawgan or Culdrose for that matter. As I've already said, I'm sure Yeovilton wouldn't go without a big struggle (for all the reasons I mentioned) but that doesn't mean it's any less likely these days. Look at the saga with Scampton which closed, re-opened and now looks set to close again, albeit as an airfield. Then there's Lyneham which appeared doomed, but now it looks like Benson and Odiham might be chopped instead. And if they are (and Lyneham becomes this proposed "helicopter superbase" then would any Army units to go Yeovilton?
The future of quite a few airfields is (as various MoD people keep saying) far, far from clear, that's all I'm saying:)

Timex, you have a point there but I don't think reaching Dartmoor from SM would be much of a problem, and of course the Lynx was shifted away from Portland in the first place, so I doubt if a move even further from the area would be regarded as being too painful, especially when all other helicopter assets could happily be based in Cornwall (but as I say, I don't imagine this will ever happen - St.Mawgan is more likely to remain under C&M indefinitely, or ultimately take a couple of F-35 "navilised-Typhoon" units). In many respects, it would probably appear much easier to move Culdrose's assets to Yeovilton, but the potential economic impact is undoubtedly the reason why Culdrose inevitably looks fairly secure. Current airfield policy seems to be based purely on black and white asset-counting, potential economic impact, potential re-sale value, and (at least in the case of Leeming) how much fuss the local MP makes! I know it's crazy but I don't think it makes it any less true!

WeaselRN

2nd Apr 2006, 17:22

All very well chaps but any reference to the original thread would be most appreciated. especially from any guys who are on the merlin at culdrose. ta

Bruiser Loose

2nd Apr 2006, 18:11

Weasel, unfortunately the subject of the thread usually goes for a meander, generally after a couple of posts. If you're lucky, a couple of ppruners may refer back to it. That's pprune!

Tim,

I fail to see the logic in your argument. Yes, one of the 3 bases that you mention will probably shut, so lets work out which one it should be. Out of the 3 bases, 2 are RN and one is RAF. Out of the 3 bases, 2 are arguably the busiest helicopter sites in Europe and one has very little activity at present. The RN need 2 bases from which to operate their helicopters.

I might write to their Lordships and suggest that we use Culdrose and Yeovilton as 2 RNAS and to base their FAA helicopters at these 2 sites. My suggestion will surely be the solution to all their problems at the moment. Who knows, I might even get a Herbott Lott for it. £2.50 book token. WH Smith's, watch out, Bruiser's Loose!!

Do you know how much it would cost to relocate Yeovilton to St Mawgan? I can't remember any figures, but when Portland shut (RIP) and HMS OSPREY was relocated to Yeovilton, the cost was astronomical. You also mention that St Mawgan cannot be disposed of economically. And Yeovilton can? I cannot see the MOD changing RAF St Mawgan into HMS SHY TALK just because F35 might be based there in the future.

Bismark

2nd Apr 2006, 18:28

I can't understand why Tim McC is going on about St Mawgan - it is closing. Just as Lyneham is closing, unless someone can prove it is financially viable to keep it open. has anyone been to Lye recently? Last time I was there it was a tip.

Weasel, re your original post - you will have great fun at either Culdrose or Yeovilton. If you like surfing go to Culdrose, for all other reasons go to Yeovilton.

Tourist

2nd Apr 2006, 18:44

Culdrose is by far the best option.

The only thing Yeovs has going for it is that it has good roads heading away from it in all directions. Great for going weekenders at speed, but hardly a reason to live there. Culdrose, as has been pointed out is a nightmare to get away from, but that is not really an issue if you actually live there, rather than just visit for the sim etc.

Yeovilton is also an @rse place for grey lynx, not even coastal.

Cornwall is a great place to live, especially in the summer, with beautiful beaches, great surf, good weather plus nice towns to live in unlike Yeovil:yuk:

Yeovils wardroom is a far higher standard, but very soulless to live in because everybody leaves at the weekend. (food is excellent at the moment, but pay as you starve is inbound, so it will be as sh1t as Culdrose soon)

Though I hate to admit it, Merlin is the future of RN rotary, and if I had my time again I would go for it.

Jungly, with the exception of the dwindling 847, is not as exciting as it is cracked up to be. Witness the number of junglys who have done 771 SAR tours and then opted to go bagging rather than go straight back to yeovs. Culdrose is looked on by yeovs inmates as this terrible purgatory where it is always red red, but in reality is rarely unflyable, especially since it is easy enough to get into Culdrose in red red.

Prestwick used to have the same problem as Culdrose. Nobody wanted to go there, but once you got someone there, they wouldn't leave.

Incidentally Tim Mclelland, what colour is the sky on your planet?

Tim McLelland

2nd Apr 2006, 19:48

I'm not going to bore anyone by repeating what I've already said, suffice to say:-

Bismark that St.Mawgan as an airfield is not closing, or at least not yet. No decision has been made on it's future after the RAF Station closes (and placed under c&m), whether it be temporary or otherwise. Likewise, it looks like the MoD may have even turned-round it's decision to close Lyneham.

Bruiser, as I've already said, I'm not suggesting that logic comes into this at all, I'm commenting on what might actually happen (two different things). It's also pointless to keep referring to bases as being "RAF" or "RN" when as far as the MoD is concerned, they're simply "MoD". I've already explained why disposing of St.Mawgan isn't likely to be easy, and it seems fair to assume that selling-off Yeovilton would be a much more attractive prospect, not least because it's in a good position for housing redevelopment. And as for the cost of relocating assets? That's never been much of a consideration! This is the same Ministry that spent millions on Finningley for example, and sold it off a couple of years later.

The F-35 matter you mention is probably a reverse of the actual MoD position; it's not really about the possibility of the F-35 being based at St.Mawgan affecting Yeovilton's future, it's more likely to be a case of the MoD identifying St.Mawgan as a potential base in order to justify keeping it open (and therefore avoiding having to sell it). The fact that Yeovilton was taken off the list of potential F-35 bases (whilst St.Mawgan was conspicuously left on it) is probably significant. But I quite agree with you that we're never going to see a "RNAS St.Mawgan" (not that RAF and RN bases have never changed hands before of course) but given the circumstances, it might well have been the most sensible thing to do. No doubt the various interested parties will all defend their airfield but as I've already said, it must be doubtful if all three will remain in MoD hands and I certainly wouldn't want to put any money on which, at this stage!

AllTrimDoubt

2nd Apr 2006, 20:06

Now Chivenor would make a nice base.....;)

6Z3

2nd Apr 2006, 21:39

Weasel, getting back to the relevant stuff - don't be put off by Widger's original arguments:
Firstly, not having a Motorway nearby is hardly a disadvantage. Just try the 30 mile Friday traffic jam called the M5 and you'll see what I mean.
Secondly, KFC. Yeovilton's nearest is at Bridgewater (22 miles) whereas Culdrose has one at 14 miles (Penzance). Admittedly, when it opens shortly I don't doubt Nesbit will have an interest.
So there you have it Kernow wins on all the relevant issues.
And by the way what is that McLelland chap on.

Tim McLelland

3rd Apr 2006, 00:40

Forgive me 6Z3, I keep forgetting what everyone told me about Pprune - that sensible conversation is always sacrificed in favour of "banter" ... I'll leave you people to it as there's patently not going to be as much as one word of sensible discussion, no matter how long this goes on. The irony is that the other sites used by the so-called "spotters" that are so frowned upon by the wannabe AVM's and Admirals on here, don't actually degenerate into this kind of nonsense. Oh well, such are the ironies of life I guess:)

Jackonicko

3rd Apr 2006, 01:07

Tim,

Journos (aviation and otherwise) have been tolerated (often gently teased, occasionally shouted at and sometimes loathed) on PPRuNe for years. But it's all got a bit too cosy thanks to the sensible, friendly, respectful contributions by folk like Sprucey and LO.

I applaud your efforts to ensure that attitudes to our profession harden into absolute contempt.

Though this is a forum for the professionals who actually do the job that many of us once wanted to do, why should we 'know our place'. Why should we show any humility? Why should we wind our necks in? When we can pi$$ people off by banging on and on with our pet peeves...... (Hmmm. Guilty as charged)

And while I hate to rain on anyone's parade, wasn't VL's usable runway length rather greater in F-4 and V-Bomber days? And won't VL be pretty full when it takes over all the maintenance activity from Lee on Solent .....?

Tim McLelland

3rd Apr 2006, 01:35

Indeed Jacko, but quite a few of us lowly civvies use Pprune on the assumption that users want to either exchange information or discuss ideas or views, not listen to sniping from people who don't have anything intelligent to say. "Jolly banter" might be fine, but if you look at some of these postings, you can see that some of them are plainly nothing more than amateur attempts at mischief-making.The sad thing is that this childish "I'm in the RAF/Navy Therefore I'm Special" attitude pursued by a few (but not all of course) Pprune users is becoming well-known outside of this forum, and one wonders what the site Admisitrators must make of it?

Likewise, although you imply that my comments merely serve to reinforce contempt, I should point-out that at least as far as I'm concerned, my extensive working contact with both RAF and FAA personnel has always been positive, friendly and very helpful, so please don't tar everybody with the same brush as some of the idiots we have to endure (or ignore!) on here, as that would be a tad unfair.

Oh, and as for Yeovilton's runway, no, it wasn't any longer back then, indeed the only major alteration to Yeovilton's layout for many years has been the creation of the apron where the V-bomber ORP used to be. The MoD's notion that the runway is somehow "too short" for the F-35 is of course, entirely bogus!

6Z3

3rd Apr 2006, 07:33

....and of course St Mawgan's nearest KFC is 37 miles....Bad news also for you Mr McSpock as its at least 54 Million KM from Phobos, with not a motorway in sight. But you could ask Nesbit to build one there..
..and do us all a favour.

Jackonicko

3rd Apr 2006, 08:33

While many here enjoy a good spat between filthy journos, it's not my intention to get into one.

Firstly the "I'm in the RAF/Navy Therefore I'm Special" attitude is, in general, entirely justified. If you and I were good enough are you seriously suggesting that we'd be content merely writing about it? Moreover, this is their sandpit, and we're fortunate that it isn't a closed forum like some of those for individual airline companies personnel.

Suffice it to say that if you are who I think you might be, I would gently, and with the utmost respect, suggest that your "extensive working contact with both RAF and FAA personnel has always been positive, friendly and very helpful," because you are, in person, charming, friendly, and personable, not confrontational, not arrogant, not superior, whereas here in your internet persona, you are often 'sand in the vaseline'.

Don't do as I do, do as I say, and know when to "wind your neck in", if not fully, then by a mil or two.

And I think your wrong about runway length.....

Biggus

3rd Apr 2006, 09:29

Tim

While not wishing to join the 'bun fight' you seem to be having with the RN, I would take issue with one of your comments:- 'And as for the cost of relocating assets? That's never been much of a consideration!'

My 'unofficial' understanding is that the reason that RAF Kinloss is staying open, for a whole 12 aircraft, rather than move maritime Nimrods to Lincolnshire and so co-locate ISTAR assets, is that the cost of relocation, closing Kinloss, beefing up Lincolnshire assets (housing, infrastructure, etc) is too expensive!! I believe a move was the preferred option of RAF senior neddies!!

Some rationalisation of 'MoD' helicopter basing, Culdrose, Yeovilton, Middle Wallop, Benson, Odiham seems inevtiable from a bean counters point of view - but as to what will go and what will stay...

Widger

3rd Apr 2006, 09:35

Ladies and Gents, I apologise for the manner of my previous posts but, this Tim chap is really getting on my goat with such mis-informed drivel. I doubt he has ever been to either Culdrose or Yeovilton outside of an airshow because, if he had, he would not be talking such utter cr@p. Remember Tim, this was first and foremost a thread about KFC. You decided to bring your 1970's, light blue centric politics into it. What else can you expect but an assault when you start spouting off about stations, both of which I have served at. It is starting to get annoying that any thread about the RAF on Pprune never appears to receive the venemous rhetoric that the RN does. Trident, Sea Jet, CVS, CVF and now Culdrose and Yeovilton are all attracting attention from the likes of those with your attitude. Don't be surprised when some of us feel the need to defend ourselves. (and yes Southside/Totalwar/Vecvec is a knob!)

I note that you are getting similar abuse on the Sea Jet thread...maybe there is a trend there!

airborne_artist

3rd Apr 2006, 09:41

Tim McC

If you want some cred on this thread then answer my post #22 before the hole you are digging gets any deeper.

6Z3

3rd Apr 2006, 10:38

A_A,

If Mr Spock wants some cred on this thread don't you think he should attempt to answer Mr Weasel's post?

Tim McLelland

3rd Apr 2006, 10:42

Jacko, seen as you're the only guy that bothered to add anything that actually contributed to our discussion, I've taken the liberty of posting-up a recent image of Yeovilton which will hopefully satisfy you that I'm not wrong about the runway. As you can see, it remains unchanged, the only obvious alterations being the new apron in the top-left corner (built on the V-bomber dispersal) and the Ski Ramp built on part of the ORP.
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/Shefftim/th_vyl.jpg

And as for your comments about service personnel, I did say that the kind of attitude I referred-to does only apply to a few individuals on Pprune - that was rather my point, that their childish attitude simply gives everyone else a bad name.

Airborne - I'm not digging any holes at all - naturally I'm not even interested in the comments made by people who can't even conduct an adult conversation. As for digging-out numbers to throw-about, I'm sure you could find them for yourself if you're really that keen to get them (those lowly spotters are very good at compilng lists!), although I'm not quite sure what the allocations to each individual units would serve to illustrate?

Widger, you're right about the Sea Jet thread, that's why I ignore it now. As ever, sensible discussion was replaced by childish sniping so I stopped bothering to read it. Unfortunately, this is what quite a few Pprune users do after a while!

Biggus - your understanding of the Kinloss saga is different to the one I heard then, as I was told that moving the Nimrods to Waddington was indeed a much more practical idea, but it was indeed some particular RAF "neddies" (as you call them) that pushed for Kinloss to stay open. It later transpired that the main advocate with most influence was a former Nimrod man who lives there...go figure.

mlc

3rd Apr 2006, 10:48

I've was based at Yeolvilton and at Culdrose (for a short while.)
If you don't originate from the extreme south, Culdrose is a nightmare. One road, in and out, constant traffic problems. It's surprising just how far away it is.
Yeovilton is nice and central. It depends what your priorities are.

Tourist

3rd Apr 2006, 11:28

mlc.
Why the assumption that you have to go somewhere?
If you are going to sign up for 16 years, why not actually live and enjoy life in cornwall?
The sheer number of tourists who come down in the summer cannot all be wrong.
Incidentally, you can get to london quicker and cheaper from Cornwall than from Yeovilton.

Tim McLelland

3rd Apr 2006, 11:36

You have a point there Tourist. If you remember back to the Channel 4 TV show "Treasure Hunt", the guys who flew the two helicopters (Keth and Mike) were both ex- Culdrose pilots, and after leaving the FAA they went to Castle Air at Liskeard, where they remain to this day doing TV/film work. They always said that they fell in love with the area and never wanted to leave it.

airborne_artist

3rd Apr 2006, 12:33

Airborne - I'm not digging any holes at all - naturally I'm not even interested in the comments made by people who can't even conduct an adult conversation. As for digging-out numbers to throw-about, I'm sure you could find them for yourself if you're really that keen to get them (those lowly spotters are very good at compilng lists!), although I'm not quite sure what the allocations to each individual units would serve to illustrate?

Tim, you were the one suggesting that VL would/could/should close and that its assets be re-homed. Tell us if there is space at CU that can take the squadrons and their lads/lasses, and if the money spent doing so is value for the taxpayer.

Widger

3rd Apr 2006, 13:16

The worst thing about Cornwall is the Cornish. They want the money but aren't willing to put up with the tourists. Compare Corwall with Brittany and you know what I mean.

Other reasons.

1. No-one goes past Helston on their way somewhere "Oh we were just passing and we thought we would popin!"

2. The weather is awful. 2 glorious days in spring and two glorious days in autumn. In the summer when the rest of the country is basking in 30 degree heat, Cornwall is in fog with a very chilly breeze coming off the channel.

3. Yes you can get back in in red conditions if you are 771 but you will also get lots of practice as well.

4. Going backwards on PAR.

5. After April, not being able to get anywhere. I note the comments about the M5 but, you have go to get there first!

6. Falmouth, could be fantastic....but then the Cornish!

7. They don't call it Hells Town for nothing. Once you go to Cornwall, say goodbye because the only way you will escape is by Sea. You can look forward to a Helston (Lady Street) Girl as a wife as well.

Tourist

3rd Apr 2006, 13:34

Widger.
As I am sure you are aware, Cornish people haven't been able to afford Falmouth for a long time.
Helston is truly horrible as you say, but there is no need to go there. Yeovil is equally horrible however.
Weather today is glorious with less wind than yeovs.
Cheap flight from Newquay is the way out if you have to.

Simple fact is that I am currently Yeovs based, but since I am on leave, I am back on the beach in Cornwall today chtching some sun.

faarn

3rd Apr 2006, 14:08

mlc.
Incidentally, you can get to london quicker and cheaper from Cornwall than from Yeovilton.

Tourist, i don't agree with quicker cheaper remark. It's an hours drive from Culdrose to the airport, have to be there 30 mins before lift, 1 hour 20 flight then 15 mins getting to the gatwick express followed by 30 mins on it. A total of over 3.5 hours. Also tried to book a flight and over £200 friday out sunday back.

Yeovs on the other had is 20 mins to castle cary, 1hr 45 on the train to paddington. 2hrs total.

Weasle. I do agree Yeovil is the biggest hole in the world, and if you're single has nothing going for it. I've spent little time in Culdrose but it was during the summer. The weather was great and the locals far move attractive. Never spent a winter there but have been assured the summer is far better.

Basically i would say Yeovs is the better location for getting places at the weekend (yes everyone bombbursts so you have to get away), but Culdrose is the nicer part of the country (if remote).

Finally, the junglies are based at Yeovs so that should really make the decision for you!!:)

WeaselRN

3rd Apr 2006, 17:33

Thanks for your thoughts gents, all much appreciated. Just fishing for good gen to tell the wife to show her that culdrose IS an option (weve just had 3 1/2 years at lossie, a lot further than culdrose is from civilisation). The lynx job sure does look like the bee' s knees though. Keep the coments coming and thanks again.

The weasel

Talk Split

3rd Apr 2006, 19:33

Forget the rubbish about which base is going to remain open or not. Logic has never come into the bean counters' equation anyway.

Ask yourself this question, and answer it truthfully...

Do you want to do a job for real or do you just want to play at it for the rest of your career??

If the answer is 'for real', then go JUNGLIE, and count how many medals you will have after your first tour.

Simple as that.

scottishbeefer

3rd Apr 2006, 20:29

Culdrose is chokka with a/c, likewise Yeov's but it's not just an issue of space. The Chinny's couldn't move to Somerset because the local infrastructure was unable to absorb such an influx of folks, as well as the base. TM, you really need to wake up and smell the java if you think St.M is remotely on the cards.

As for Jungly being the way ahead?! Get (save) a life! SAR is the best flying you'll ever consistently get, you'll just have to accept that the RN don't tend to crow like the RAF and the medal count is much lower. However, SAR(H) may well shoot us all in the foot in 6-10 years, it may not be a long-term prospect for an ab-initio.

Traditionally chopped-FJ mates have all gone Jungly - however, get through the Captaincy phase at 705 first, then see where the mop flops.

Which reminds me...why are so many Jungly's so freakin' arrogant? I've flown with many and with the odd exception, they were average joes. (No I honestly wasn't a Mk4 "re-tread"!!!)

Standing by for the influx which I shall counter with tail rotor strimming/dynamic rollover/hoist vs SACRU jettison switches/power cable snapping/landing in the sea not the beach/flybys into the ship - not past it gags etc etc etc. JunglyAEO et al?!

Tourist

3rd Apr 2006, 23:30

Totally agree scottish beefer about Jungly arrogance.
Seems to be the same quality of people across the board to me. A minority of cr@p, a vast majority of great flyers, and a few stars. Each has their strong points.
Pingers cannot map read, but are gods of IF.
Junglies cannot fly IF, but are great in the weeds.
Zoomies cannot maintain humility, but grow great sideburns.

Many medals are worn by many RN aircrew at the moment, but how many are for anything other than turning up and living with nause.
I have ultimate respect for any Jungly involved in the first night trooplift into Al Faw, but how many of your other medals put into that comparison compare with that event?

Argus

4th Apr 2006, 00:51

The clag at Helston can sit there for days, and the highlight of the social scene was the first Sat on the month grab a gronk at the Truro hospital nurse's home party

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose!

Strictly Jungly

4th Apr 2006, 18:16

The real point is do you want to live amongst Pointy Heads or Johnny Hayseeds?????

Having served at both Establishments.......with a split of 90%/10% time wise I may be a tad biased towards wonderful Somerset.

Cornwall is a beautiful county....but fills up quicker than a Tony Blair driven immigration centre in the warmer months. Whereas VL is the home of the Junglies.................I rest my case your honour............

Or you could try both................

WeaselRN

4th Apr 2006, 20:18

why is it that only the junglies are bigging themselves up? lynx/merlin.... where are you? Thanks for the gen chaps but i do think its a grey cab for me. From my end, oo eer, if I was mad for the weeds, I would have crossed over to the GR4 after my tour and joined the boys in denim. I fancy something different. So my preference at the mo is a small ships flight either merlin / lynx. However, i may yet live to regret or eat these badly chosen words!!!!!!!!! Be careful what you wish for...:ouch:

Bruiser Loose

4th Apr 2006, 20:42

Weasel,

You're right. Not many "we're 'kin great" stories from us grey helicopter guys. But we know. And that's all you need to know. It's a need to know thing!

Seriously, the job doesn't get much better than having your own small ship's Flight. There is no "Wheel of Fortune" when there is a good sortie to be had. There is just you and your wingman to go and fly it. Has its downsides too. 24H SAR cover for 3 weeks at a time whilst you watch the MEO and WEO drink their way through the Wardroom wine stocks isn't that funny!

Yes, Yeovil is a dump, but there are many fine villages in the surrounding area. Sharing an airbase with the RW branch of Pickfords (845/846) can be a drag as well!:yuk:

BL

6Z3

4th Apr 2006, 20:43

Drifting well off the thread, but hell why not. While we're talking about hover taxying/drifting into trouble, can anyone recall how many jungly Wessex 5's went up and then rolled over in the FI snow trying to fetch some troops off the mountain before a lowly Wessex HAS Mk3 went up there and brought them all off the mountain? Don't think any of the Junglies got a medal for their less than Clockwork efforts, Ian Stanley did of course.

airborne_artist

4th Apr 2006, 21:12

While we're talking about hover taxying/drifting into trouble, can anyone recall how many jungly Wessex 5's went up and then rolled over in the FI snow trying to fetch some troops off the mountain

Do you mean S Georgia? If so, it was two, I think.

snafu

4th Apr 2006, 22:42

At the end of the day, both Yeovil and Helston are a bit of a dump (and over an hour or two from any decent sized city for good night-life, bars, restaurants etc), but the surrounding villages can be pretty good for the traditional village pub night out and there are some hoofing restaurants if you know where to look.

Yeovil is slightly closer to the rest of UK civilisation, but Cornwall can be great in the summer, especially if you're into surfing or just loafing on the beach. I've managed to enjoy both, but it's your choice.

Depending on your lifestyle preferences, there are pro's and con's for both locations. Personally, I'd be more swayed by what sort of flying I wanted to be involved in and what the job offers. This would also need to be influenced by what parts of the course I enjoyed at DHFS. If you're into general handling of the cab and a bit of IF:uhoh:, but low level nav just isn't your bag, have a look at the Pinger, SAR or Lynx worlds, particularly if you want to be the pilot on board. Loads of responsibility and I'm sure that being a HOD on board is good fun as the Flt Cdr, but don't forget Bruiser's comment about the SAR cover! If, however, you get hooked on having to climb to go over the hedgerows and fancy trying to dodge trees at night, you'll probably enjoy life more as a Jungly.:E Unfortunately, this means that you'll be spending more than a little time in the sandpit at the moment - Eagle VCP's anyone?:rolleyes:

We're all working bloody hard, so it's just whatever takes your fancy and whatever sort of recommend you get from DHFS (do they still do that?)

Best of luck with the course! :ok:

peterperfect

5th Apr 2006, 08:09

Widger, (in your professional opinion) wouldnt you say that wherever WeaselRN gets appointed, these days he's (or she's) got a good chance of having a rewarding flying career in an aircraft type/role/programme/equipment fit guaranteed not to be the same in 2 years time as it is now ? At the end of the day he/she wont have much choice straight off anyway. If the key question is about location I have served at both (and a few now closed) and enjoyed every one in my time in the Fleet Air Arm. I reckon that you and your squadron mates make your own fun wherever you serve, as long as your attitude is right. Thats the nature of the beast, no point being narrow minded about it. Any chance of you listing the brilliant characteristics (listed 1-7 if you like) of the county you came from ?

Widger

5th Apr 2006, 09:39

OK, OK

Yeovilton.

1. Beautiful part of the world.
2. Cider.
3. Some great pubs, like the Lamb and Lark
4. Some excellent flying right on your doorstep..Gay meadows..Dartmoor, Exmor and the Somerset Levels. Easy access to South Wales.
5. Castle Cary Station.
6. Trying to get to work through the floods.
7. Glastonbury
8. Met my wife there.

Culdrose.

1. Beautiful part of the world...some orrible bits too (4 lanes, Redruth, Cambourne). On your flying pay you can aford to live somewhere nice.
2. Spingo down the Blue Anchor (Careful how you say that).
3. Some of the best mess life you will have shoreside (Because no-one can escape).
4. Mullion Golf course (I don't play golf, I still have sex!)
5. Some great pubs, like the Helzephron (The cliffs of hell)
6. Truro, The Isles of Scilly, Porthleven, the Helford River.
7. Some great flying on your doorstep ( Dartmoor, Predannack, Exmor)
8. Trying to get to work through the tourists.

Both places are fine and far better than some of the RAF messes I have lived in! (Not been to many Scottish ones...heard Lossie is pretty good!)

peterperfect

5th Apr 2006, 09:58

Well said Widger. Havn't we all been lucky wherever we flew ?
Good luck WeaselRN in your ventures: I'd do it all again, except I would have bought that dormer bungalow on the beach at Sandbanks offered to me for £7200 in 1979 !!! Ho Hum.

BEagle

5th Apr 2006, 10:40

Well said, Widger!

How lucky you are to have not just one, but two fine bases in decent parts of England!

3 if you include the Booties at Chivenor..:{

Bruiser Loose

5th Apr 2006, 11:14

peterperfect, you hit the nail on the head.

It's not the run-ashore.................it's the runners!:p

Strictly Jungly

6th Apr 2006, 21:57

Totally agree scottish beefer about Jungly arrogance.
by many RN aircrew at the moment, but how many are for anything other than turning up and living with nause.
I have ultimate respect for any Jungly involved in the first night trooplift into Al Faw, but how many of your other medals put into that comparison compare with that event?

What about South Atlantic 1982 (many sorties during that time spring to mind), would that suffice?

Tourist

7th Apr 2006, 07:42

Yeah, you can have that one too, you old bu##er!!

Strictly Jungly

7th Apr 2006, 10:32

Yeah, you can have that one too, you old bu##er!!

Why Thank you Tourist................................seems like only yesterday.

Must dash as I have to hit the road and head back to Gods county........Zummmmmmmmmerset. :D

fatobs

7th Apr 2006, 12:50

Done many years in both Culdrose and Yeov's as bad as each other, actually prefered being at sea!!!

Prestwick on the other hand................ Fantastic

southside

7th Apr 2006, 15:54

I,m an RN FJ re-tread going through Shawbury at the minute and a little undecided about the future, in so much as somerset vs cornwall, lynx vs merlin, even abo SAR is now possible. Your thoughts and gen would be appreciated.Do you get a choice nowadays?

scottishbeefer

7th Apr 2006, 18:16

Fatobs - well said. (Any poss of FTC SD? You could malinger for a few more years!) SAR is the sport of kings for sure and Scotland is the Rolls Royce of SAR. But shhhh, let's keep it a secret.

Tourist

8th Apr 2006, 10:42

Prestwick was great back in the 819 days, but now its just a civvy SAR flight with a uniform fetish.

scottishbeefer

9th Apr 2006, 19:17

Tourist - what a misinformed chap you are. Presumably every RAF SAR Flight is run by a bunch of civ's as well?

Tourist

9th Apr 2006, 21:02

Scottishbeefer.
No Wardroom.
No Cockfights.
No ASW crews on permanent standby to go out drinking with you on days off.
Living off base.
No weapons.

I do not know what the official definition of military is, but I am sure weapons are in there somewhere.

And as to your question about RAF SAR crews, you presume right.
(Well it would be rude to differentiate them from the rest of the RAF wouldn't it?)

rafloo

13th Apr 2006, 07:15

Does anyone know what the future for Gannet SAR is? Is it secure or under threat of closure?

scottishbeefer

13th Apr 2006, 07:53

rafloo - the spectre is always there, SAR(H) will be the biggest hurdle for RN PWK. 2009 has been bandied about but the real answer is no-one knows for sure (FatObs?).

Tourist - not sure the jungly SAR drivers would agree they're non-mil now, and we all have our tales of pre/post SAR military flying. As for weapons, the cut of a SAR wallah's wit is surely the most effective? But seriously - civvy? It's the man not the gun my friend, that makes the military.

AEO - negat the seacat on the Bonne. That has gone the way of the dodo since the drawdown (sadly).