PPL Oxford Aviation

[FlyingFin]

Advice needed....

Started Fixed wing PPL Training at Oxford Aviation towards the end of last year, achieved 11 hours flight time before going solo. Due to bad weather and avalibility of PA28s at the weekend came to mutual agreement with flight instuctor at that time to stop training over the winter and get the majority of the exams out of the way and start Nav asap beginning of 2006.
Received letter Jan 2006 from Oxford Avaition stating they were closing PPL side down, tried to speak to PPL Training Manager but he no longer works there spoke to flight instuctor but he has left as well.

The couse was paid fully up front and I am still waiting for them to refund the rest of the money to me. (over £4000)

My question is from a legsl point of view where do I stand?

Am I able to ask for a full refund due to the Flying School not being able to fulfill flight training?

If anybody can give me any advice or if they have been in a similar situation it would be very appreciated.

Many thanks in advance for any advice.
Tony.

[Lister Noble]

Tony,
I really feel for you,my school will take £1000 up front and give 10% discount,but I tend to pay as I go and settle up after each session or sometimes at the end of the weekend.
I was warned by a lot of bod's not to pay up front,even so I hope we don't get a load of "told you so's" about paying up front
I'm not a legal expert,but my first port of call would be the CAB, or a local firm of solicitors and I believe most give the first consultation free.
If no joy you could pursue through the Small Claims Court as it is below £5000.
What rotten luck,but I sincerely hope you get out of it with all your cash and training records.
Fingers crossed!
Lister:)

[Sans Anoraque]

As FlyingFin only joined at the start of the year, it's hard to say 'I told you so'. However, you can use this site as a form of pressure, with every future example of why not to pay money up front mentioning Oxford Aviation.

I have no idea of how, or even if, they're connected to OAT. If so, I doubt they want that kind of bad publicity on here (or even in all the flight magazines, hint, hint).

[Lister Noble]

Just got this off their website.
It appears they are continuing all their other operations and seem to want to resolve the current situation, so hopefully it will be settled in a satisfactory manner.
Lister:)


PPL(A) training at OAT will not continue into 2006 however PPL(H) training will continue

PPL(A) training has not been a business success for OAT during 2005, due to significant price competition and oversupply in the market.

It has therefore been decided that OAT will no longer continue to provide PPL(A) training or fixed wing trial lessons from 2006 onwards. All existing PPL(A) customers are being advised in writing and arrangements for the completion of the training are being communicated through the Flight Training Department.

OAT would like to apologise for any inconvenience caused and appreciate your patience and understanding in this matter. If you require any further information or wish to discuss your concerns, please contact a member of Flight Training Department directly on 01865 840356.

[Pilotdom]

Dont panic too much,

Oxford is a well renowed school and not the sort that is going to go bust wihout rumblings first. They have discontinued PPL fixed wing training as in there words it was of no financial benefit i.e they didnt make the profits from it that they were hoping to. Have you got the receipt that you got from them when you paid the £4000? If you have I suggest you go and speak to them face to face with the receipt and explain that you understand what has happend and that you would like a refund for the money and see what they have to say face to face. Also have an accurate list of monies that they can take of in lessons already done and exams fee etc etc. If you still encounter problems let the forum know!

Dominic

[Sans Anoraque]

Maybe so - but they've had his money for 3 months now. It's time to pay it back if they can't fulfil their side.

[ChrisVJ]

Unless their contract actually states that they can discontinue training at any time they would also be liable for the cost difference in training somewhere else suitable. You would have a duty of mitigation, that is to say you can't just go out and spend money willy nilly but reasonable extra cost. Having said that your chances of collecting on that would probably not be worth the cost of collection but it might be a small lever for quick settlement if one were needed.

If you have not actually asked for your money I suspect it is rather just a case of not getting round to handing it back. Ask now and let us all know how you are getting on.

[tangovictor]

I'd ask politely but firmly for ALL of your money to be refunded, they must have known when they signed you up, that they were considering stopping, therefore owe you some compensation, for messing you about.
As previously mentioned, they are a big operation, and could well do without adverse publicity, let alone a winding up order.
keep us informed, and good luck

[ManfredvonRichthofen]

somebody else asked this very same question a short while ago

You are liable to pay the money you have actually spent so far on training. The rest they should give back to you. You should inform them that you want payment of your money back asap.

I would avoid any legal routes until they become your only option. I doubt they will.
If it does come to that i assume this would be akin to a straightforward action in debt. Someone qualified could tell you

If by full refund you mean get back everything you gave them initially - forget it. You pay for what you got. You "may" get some compensation, but you are not entitled to it.

Chris VJ makes some relevant points but as he seems to hint, it really would be a pointless and fruitless waste of time, effort and most probably money following up any kind of legal claim.
You have been inconvenienced - sucks but it happens. Take an apology as a remedy for that and demand your unspent money back soonest. That's what I'd do.

[Malcolm G O Payne]

It is a couple of years since I finished working at Oxford and there have been a number of management changes since then, but I know that they were always meticulous regarding refunds. Unfortunately this industry is notoriously volatile and when thing get slow they may start PPL training again. It has happened several times in the past.

[ChrisVJ]

I trained there in 1963, they may still owe me a few minutes, should I claim?