Air Berlin

[mysecretsmile]

Great news that Air Berlin have thrown their hat into the ring for Belfast.
Will surely give easyJet a bit of a run on the Stansted route.

I doubt Air Berlin will offer anything else other than a domestic route
from BHD. Most of the viable international routes have been wrapped up by Jet2 & EasyJet

[carlos vandango]

This will be a winner. You can interline onwards from STN with Air Berlin thus opening up the whole network to NI.

[jack_essex]

Great too see Air Berlin starting another new route from Stansted. We have Alicante starting soon aswell. I really want to fly with them on one of their domestic routes for a day trip. Either Manchester or Belfast. The Manchester flights seem to be doing really well. Several flights are either completely sold out or with just a couple of seats left if you want to fly in the next few days.

[WOWBOY]

Air Berlin seem to be doing very well on there domestic services as Glasgow is also doing well with many flights becoming full.

I think Air Berlin will do well on this route!!! Good Luck to them!!!

[Stanstedeye]

Air-Berlin are to begin flying from STN to Belfast (City) from May 2nd.
There will be two daily flights Mon.-Fri. & one daily flight Sat.Sun.

[keepitlit]

ALL READY DONE!


rgds

K.I.L.

[wingman863]

What aircraft will they be using? I had a look on the website and the prices seemed reasonable. Something like 46 quid all the way to Vienna connecting in Stansted. What are connections like at stansted? Is it possible to check baggage through to the final destination?

Cheers.

[WHBM]

I've used them from Stansted to Glasgow. Better cabin service than EZY, but only two flights a day which is difficult in a high density market.

You get allocated seats, sweets and newspapers on boarding, drinks (soft), and a rather Germanic heavyweight sandwich/roll that all seem to have been made, pressed together and loaded at Berlin at 05.00 each day.

On returning into STN aircraft goes to international pier, pax are segregated at foot of steps, domestic pax into bus for terminal, continuing pax up into pier. The aircraft continues to Germany, there is a mini-hub operation with about 6 simultaneous departures, fed by arrivals from Manchester and Glasgow. For domestic pax it all adds about 10-15 minutes to the overall journey time.

A lot of pax seem to be connecting to/from other AB flights, they definitely organise it as a feeder with through baggage and boarding cards. Northbound all the through pax were seated in the forward cabin, domestic pax at the rear. The FA stood at the front and did the safety briefing in German, then repositioned to mid-cabin and did it again in English ! There's a lot of German spoken on board.

They need attention to how to keep on time. Lessons I am afraid EZY/FR could teach them.

For a new service with an operator "unknown" on the route loads were surprisingly good.

I'm guessing they will use a Fokker F100 to Belfast.

[BFS/BHD]

I've heard it will be a B737-700.

[Buster the Bear]

It will be a B737-700.

[NWSRG]

Suddenly BHD is looking interesting in comparison to BFS...with 737s, A32xs, 146s, Dash 8s of various vintages, soon the E195, and other assorted craft.

At BFS it seems like 737 city!

[Dee747]

Have just booked BHD-STN-VIE for £66 return including credit card booking fee and all taxes for Oct, using AB on the BHD-STN leg and NIKI on the STN-VIE sector. Looking forward to both on a first time visit to Vienna. Roll on .......:)

[LGWAlan]

Dee747 - get in touch - used to live in VIE - you'll have a great time!

[brian_dromey]

I wish Air Berlin all the best on the BHD route, they seem to offer something truly different in the lo-co sector,and I believe are a sign of the more customer friendly lo-co carriers that are now appearing. not since Go have we seen an airline which can claim that low fares dont equal crappy service.

These airlines are the future and should be supported. FR and U2 have a limited appeal going forward, people are getting sick of tatty interiors, rubbinh food(even to buy) and incessent marketing while on board. AB,Niki, Aer Lingus and the much derided BAconnect are proof that low fares can be "way better".

By the way....Corkonians love cheap flights to STN(and more importantly, byond) and there is plenty of room in the market this summer....

Best of Luck to all at AB/Niki. May you prosper and grow.

[daz211]

anyone got any info on AB expansion at stansted the move to sat 2 makes you think something is in the pipeline:confused:

[Damian O'Leary]

EDI and NCL seem obvious gaps in AB's UK domestic network. Any indication that these airports will be served in the near future?

[fx-85ms]

How many aircraft does Air Berlin have at its bases?
At STN?
Cheers!

[GW76]

EDI and NCL seem obvious gaps in AB's UK domestic network. Any indication that these airports will be served in the near future?
EDI has enough German and Eastern european links, and so I suspect thats why AB are focussing their Scottish flights on GLA which has few direct routes, and getting transit passengers via STN

[jack_essex]

I'm hoping of booking to day trip with Air Berlin in October some time. They have some great fares from Stansted. Just trying to decide the best place to go for the day.

[Stanstedeye]

How many aircraft does Air Berlin have at its bases?
At STN?
Cheers!

AB has no based aircraft at STN.

[turnipgreen]

anyone heard about AB getting a new General manager in the UK?

[carbootking]

saw an air berlin plane on stand at stn other day with tui winglets any one tell why?

[Buster the Bear]

Like this?

http://www.justplanes.com/images/8513.jpg

[carbootking]

yes like that

[Evileyes]

http://www.airspacemag.com/ASM/Mag/Index/2001/AS/htww.html

Winglets explained.

[GW76]

http://www.airspacemag.com/ASM/Mag/Index/2001/AS/htww.html
Winglets explained.
No disrespect Moderator, but I think we all know what winglets are for- the discussion was regarding specifically why there were TUI winglets on an Air Berlin aircraft. A perfectly reasonable discussion IMO.

[TartinTon]

anyone heard about AB getting a new General manager in the UK?

Not sure about a new GM but you're definitely getting a new UK S&M director. Used to be with VLM and SABRE so I understand.

[international hog driver]

Story behind the winglets is it was a lightening strike that damaged both winglets (in one side, out the other).

AB have no spares, Hapag did.

No big deal but a bit expensive.

[MarkD]

just following easyjet's lead I suppose.

[A and C]

I can only think that it,s in the deal that Airbus give on product suport as I suspect that you could not find a lot of diference between the B737NG and the A320 in fuel burn.

No doubt the Americans will scream about goverment suport for the european industry wile forgetting about the very big defence contracts that help maintain the Boeing infastructure.

[A330AV8R]

15 love Airbus

:ok:

[PAXboy]

eurocan ...and one of the things I can't figure out is that how come if ... The answer is Money!! In whatever way the deal has been done, they perceive that it will save them money over the alternatives. If they wanted to expand and then found that it was cheaper to change equipment, then that's what they are going to do. The change may be painful but it will make sense on paper.

[Harrier46]

Might also have something to do with availability. Recent experience shows delivery slots for A320s are much better than for 737s. And not too many used 737NGs on the market either.

[CaptainProp]

I think the fact that they are buying shiney new airplanes also has something to do with the tax/accountig laws in Germany (EU?)...Maybe nothing to do with the Airbus Q, but I think if you have commitments for investments, in the future, you can start writing of taxes on those loans/leases already now...IE you can use investments, that you still have not paid for, to brighten up not so good (?) looking financial reports, or make good reports look even better, by buying/replacing your fleet like there is no tomorrow...
Not sure what happans when you stop expanding/stop buying new airplanes..:} :confused:
/CP

[Doug the Head]

just following easyjet's lead I suppose.
Well, at least Air Berlin were smart enough to order 320´s instead of 319 with 4 overwing exits and 156 seats which requires an extra 4th FA. :{

[virginblue]

One of the things I can't figure out is that how come If they've had a 737 fleet for years , they've decided to change that and go with A320's. Doesn't that mean double cost for maintenance providing support to A320's and 737's as well as double tasking between the needs of one with another?


There is only one alternative - forever operate Boeing 737s which, if it is a known policy, certainly does not guarantee a good deal from your then only supplier when it comes to renewing your fleet....

[D-ABBT]

Hey

Just a little bit of info regarding a earlier post saying it would be a B737-700 operating the STN-GLA flights. Its often a B737NG operating this route. it has begun to be more and more the F100's, but too start with and still is oprated alot with the B737NG.

D-ABBT

[beaucaire]

Yesterday Air Berlin has bought it's competitor DBA ( 29 aircraft..) for 120 M €
They financed the deal by proper cash without any loans.Question now is what will happen with LTU,which have focussed on long-haul flughts ans which is onwed by Rudolf Wöhrl,the previous owner of DBA.It could mean that AB will start long haul operations in a not too far future.

[conradmueller]

Yesterday Air Berlin has bought it's competitor DBA ( 29 aircraft..) for 120 M €
They financed the deal by proper cash without any loans.Question now is what will happen with LTU,which have focussed on long-haul flughts ans which is onwed by Rudolf Wöhrl,the previous owner of DBA.It could mean that AB will start long haul operations in a not too far future.
dba is no direct competitor. They have totally different route systems.

[nickmanl]

So 29 aircraft for 120 million euros. So is this cheap or did Easy get ripped off buying Go?

[EDDNHopper]

beaucaire,

It could mean that AB will start long haul operations in a not too far future.

Could you elaborate, please? :confused: :confused:

P.S.: Official press release (http://www.airberlin.com/site/pressreleases_dr.php?LANG=eng&BROWSER=&ID=674).

[boeing777LR]

Hey
I just read in a german newspaper online that Air Berlin has bought DBA. The excat price for DBA was not disclosed but its believe to be in the double million euro range. Air Berlin now gets access to important slots in Munchen and Dusseldorf. DBA will continue to operate as independent company but rebranded to Air Berlin powered by DBA.

cheers

[Pilotstudent]

Ive heard in the german News TV (N24) that Air Berlin has payed 120Mio.€ for the assumption.
I think that Lufthansa has now a serious competitor in the German domestic flights business.

I hope that has a positive effect for the pilotstudents in Germany, because Air Berlin is the one of the few Airlines that employ young pilots direct from the Flightschool.


Regards

Pilotstudent

[brakedwell]

Let's hope they restart the MUC - LGW service BA dumped in March.

[Buster the Bear]

If they did indeed pay 120 m Euro, easyJet were mugged when they purchased Go!

[tom de luxe]

IN an article published in "Focus", an insider of Air Berlin and close collaborator of Mr. Hunold meant :
"aus Focus Money:
"[...] Aus Air Berlin könnte in den nächsten Monaten ein global agierender Player werden. Es wird spekuliert, dass Hans-Rudolf Wöhrl sich komplett aus dem Fluggeschäft verabschiedet und Hunold neben der dba auch die in seiner Intro-Gesellschaft gebündelten Anteile an der LTU verkauft. [...] In Hunolds engster Umgebung hieß es, es könne sein, dass man auch noch die Langstrecke am Bein habe. Der Air-Berlin-Chef scheute bisher das Business mit den Flügen nach Fernost und über den Atlantik und konzentrierte sich auf Europa. Dennoch kehrt er jetzt durch die Hintertür schon zu seiner alten Airline LTU zurück. Als Kooperationspartner für Zubringerflüge ist die dba ohnehin schon bei der LTU mit an Bord."


Quote from German business weekly "Focus Money":
"Air Berlin could become a global player over the next months. There is some speculation about Wöhrl leaving the airline business altogether, by selling not only his shares in dba, but also his shares in LTU, held through [Intro, a "vehicle" i.e. a company set up for the purpose of holding shares in other business interests]. Sources close to Hunold have said they were afraid of getting LTU's long-haul millstone hung round Air Berlin's neck. Air Berlin's boss had until now shunned the transatlantic and Far East business, concentrating on Europe instead. Now it seems he's going back to his old Airline, LTU, if through the back door - dba is, as of now, already co-operating with LTU by providing feeder flights. "

[daz211]

I see that dba flight DI9215 ex berlin is at STN today
maybe doing AB flight of poss more to it ?
maybe we will see some new routes soon

[OltonPete]

daz211

Very similar flight number to the BHX charters DI9407 (last night) a 737
and DI9409 a FK100 this morning. Both outbound charters to Tegal.

I checked the Tegal website and there are only DI9*** flights from BHX
and STN but sounds a bit of a co-incidence - corporate charter?

Pete

[conradmueller]

daz211

Air Berlin often uses dba Planes, when the F100 goes tech.

[daz211]

Can anyone tell me when AB will announce
SUMMER 2007 TIMETABLE

[international hog driver]

Soon Daz Soon,

Big changes at AMS, ZRH, VIE and a couple more.

Cant say much but i do know that Flight ops, traffic, group and wholesale are all getting their panties in a bunch and it all has to do with intergration of DBA, GMX subs and how many partner charters with HLF next summer.

So basically ops normal in Saatwinklerdamm :}

[Hollymead]

Is it true the direct STN-ALC route is being dumped ?

[pabely]

Now reported in press.....
'German travel operator TUI AG is currently in negotiations with Air Berlin PLC regarding an airline alliance that could result in the withdrawal of TUI from the German market, according to an early release of Manager Magazine's Saturday edition.

It said both companies have officially stated they are in talks regarding a sales and marketing tie-up, but company sources have noted that negotiations are actually over issues that are far larger than that.

The magazine said TUI manager Christoph Mueller spoke a few months ago about the need to merge the German airlines of TUI together with Condor, the charter airline of Thomas Cook AG, but initial talks came to nothing, which explains why TUI has approached Air Berlin.
Things going to get interesting in Germany.....

[daz211]

Air Berlin have put there summer 2007 on sale but I cant see any new routes as yet, I would have thought they might have put some new routes out of STN, even if it was just some new domestic routes.

[captainyonder]

I'm still suprised no one has launched a direct route from London to Dresden. Air Berlin would seem like the most obvious operator for the route. It's the one major German city that remains without a London link.

[fx-85ms]

I was just wondering what kind of aircraft allocation does Air Berlin follow? I have heard that they dont base any aircraft in PMI or STN and everything is operated from Germany. Do they do overnight stops? how many aircraft come back to base in each of their German airports?

cheers

[cwl4eva]

Is there any strength in the rumour that AB could be starting from CWL soon?

[Richard Taylor]

Or EDI/ABZ?

[conradmueller]

Nicki ist stopping all flights from VIE to STN in May, so VIE will no longer be part of the STN Hub.

[Franz Josef Strauss]

hallo, I am new in this place. I am hearing that Air Berlin is to start new routes to places in UK and Ireland. I am hearing that Dublin, Bristol, Birmingham, Cardiff and Liverpool may being served soon.

Does anyone please have some informations for me.

Thank you

[D-ABBT]

Do you know if these would be connections from Stansted like the GLA, MAN and BHD flights. or direct from Germany. Liverpool from Stansted would be a good route as there is a real lack of flights from London - liverpool apart from VLM!!

[Franz Josef Strauss]

Iam sorry....I do not know this. I am hoping for informations as I have business visits to Ireland, Wales and N England. I hope for news for direct flights from Germany as I use Lufthansa now who are costing much money and have no service for Wales.

[en2r]

Franz Josef Strauss
Have you tried Aer Lingus,Ryanair or Germanwings? They have flights from Dublin, Cork, Kerry and Shannon to many German destinations and should be a lot cheaper than Lufthansa. Dublin in particular has flights to most major German airports

[nivsy]

Can see Bristol being an opportunity for Air Berlin - withthe cessation of BACON flights - Air Berlin Fk 100 - why not?


Nivsy

[Franz Josef Strauss]

Thank all for replies. I will look at opportunity for Ireland flights.

I have used easyjet to Bristol for meetings in Wales. I would be most happy for flight available to Cardiff. I have to use KLM and change in Amsterdam with often some bad delay.

[Mr A Tis]

With BaCon dumping the MAN-TXL service, we can only hope that AB re-istate their direct non-stop MAN-TXL service. Not everyone wants to fanny around Stansted:eek:

[peakp]

Mr.A Tis

You try the new Jet2 service which starts in about 10 days time.
Regards
PeakP

[Jamesair]

There is a real opening for a Berlin - Newcastle route since EZY left it last October...loads were always good.....quite a bit of inbound traffic to NCL I believe.

[virginblue]

I guess the problem is that for most destinations Air Berlin needs feed through its STN mini-hub as there will not be sufficient point-to-point demand. If they have to rely on additional domestic traffic from London because their feed from Germany is not sizeable enough to fill those planes (remember that a lot pax from Germany get off at STN for London), this pretty much rules out places such as CWL, BRS or BHX. DUB would be fun as Ryanair certainly would be looking for a nice massacre at Air Berlin's expense. I could imagine, though, that DUB would work for Air Berlin because of the feed from Germany. LPL, hmm, not sure. It would probably cannibalize the MAN route. As for other suggestions, NCL might be an option, also ABZ. Problem is if these markets are large enough for an additional carrier. Remember that BFS and MAN only work because there is no competition. At GLA, where they have to fight against Easyjet, the only use a Fokker 100, and GLA certainly has more appeal to most Germans than ABZ or NCL. One other problem is that Air Belrin is cutting back the routes from the continent, thus reducing the available feed for the STN mini-hub. VIE will be gone soon.

[SWBKCB]

Virginblue - are you suggesting AB take on EZY for the STN-NCL route???

[GW76]

GLA flights are a mix of 737-300, -700, -800 with Fokker 100s too- not just F100s

[virginblue]

SWBKCB -

I am not suggesting, I am just contemplating possible options if the STN mini-hub will ever be expanded. As a matter of fact, AB is already competing with Easyjet on GLA-STN and to some extent on BHD-STN (with EZY serving BFS) and seem to be doing OK.

[a1234]

Well CWL could do with any new German routes, indirect or direct seeing as there are NONE at the moment! MCH used to be very popular a few years back until baby scrapped it so there is plenty of room for growth here.

[Richard Taylor]

Must admit would like to see AB try a STNABZ link, seen as none of the UK locos seem that interested.

[Franz Josef Strauss]

I am hearing again today that Air Berlin are to commence service for Cardiff from Germany.

Does anyone have news for me from which cities they will fly?

[Franz Josef Strauss]

Thank you for these informations. This would be wonderful for me, especially Berlin and Hamburg.

[HH6702]

Air Berlin could work really well out of ncl

routes could be

Berlin
cgn
hannover
hamburg
munich

i think many more could work.

[Mr A Tis]

Thanks Peakp, forgot about Jet2 getting onto the Berlin from Manchester.
Maybe there is a gap for AB/DBA/Fly Nikki on the BaCon/Flybe dropped Vienna route from MAN.
The AB connection via STN or HAM is pretty poor.Austrian were sniffing around the route, but have since backed off.

[DONTTELLTHEPAX]

Air Berlin acquires German airline LTU

March 27, 2007
BERLIN --Germany's Air Berlin PLC said Tuesday it bought Duesseldorf-based airline LTU for euro140 million (US$186 million) in cash to expand the business.

[MaxRange120]

A little bit more info on this here from bbc news.
M.R.120:ok:
German airline Air Berlin has said it will buy charter rival LTU for 140m euros ($187m; £95m).
In a separate deal, Air Berlin also said it was buying a 49% stake in the Swiss operator Belair Airlines.
Following the deals, Air Berlin will be the fourth-biggest airline in terms of European traffic, behind Ryanair, Air France/KLM and Lufthansa.
Air Berlin has been buying rivals after first selling shares to investors in May 2006 to raise money for expansion.
Air Berlin says that LTU will remain independent within the group and that its brand will be retained "in the foreseeable future".
LTU operates 15 medium-haul and 11 long-haul aircraft. It employs 2,244 staff and transported 5.3 million passengers last year.
To help finance the deal, Air Berlin said it would take on between 190m euros and 200m euros of debt.
Belair Airlines is a subsidiary of the Hotelplan Group and currently operates three aircraft.

[MaxBlow]

here´s the full story:

http://www.reuters.com/article/tnBasicIndustries-SP/idUSL2710760020070327

[Flying_Frisbee]

LTU carry a respectable amount of belly freight as well. Any prognosis on what Air Berlin plan to do with this part of LTU's operation? Handling freight doesn't fit well with the LoCo profile.

[eu01]

Handling freight doesn't fit well with the LoCo profile.
I'd say Air Berlin doesn't entirely fit to the low-cost model at present as well. Connecting flights, free sandwiches and drinks, pre-arranged seating, to name the few. Let's see...

[kingair9]

LTU's medium range flights to Spain, Greece etc. will be incorporated into AB's network and the 32X fleet will be painted in AB colours asap.

LTU's log-haul fleet (consisting of 332 and 333) will remain in its colours and AB (incl. former DI) will feeder them. Only long-haul base will be DUS with only some flights out of MUC - both "surprisingly" major AB/DI bases.

So, they can offer e.g. VLC-DUS-NYC or ATH-MUC-LAX services now.

Source: Varios press releases and news articles.

By the way, AB will acquire a fully certfied 32X maintenance facility (which is already today making profits...) which they only have on a small scape today but which they need for their growing 32X fleet.

[Doug the Head]

I have to admit that at first I did not see the logic behind AB buying LTU (seemed like two very different operations, LoCo 737 and medium/long haul Airbus charter), but I forgot that AB have bought a substantial number of single aisle Airbusses.

If the above is true then it looks like AB will beat EZY to the LoCo long haul market whilst grabbing another big slice of the German LoCo market.

Interesting to see what happens next...

[nivsy]

It could be argued that FlyGlobespan have beaten all low cost carriers to the long haul market.

The LTU AB330's are also regular on Malaga runs from Germany - 2 noted on the apron just last weekend.


Nivsy

[kingair9]

It is becoming more and more probable that Air Berlin will acquire also CONDOR (DE), formerly Lufthansa's leisure airline.

Fleet and routes of DE would fit into AB's search pattern - 32S for the short and medium haul market would fit ideal. 753's and 763's would not fit so well but at least LTU has the necessary maintenance facilities for these and a lot of LT pilots have experience on these types. In addition, AB/LT have just agreed on code shares with DE.

Background: LH sold their 50% stake in DE to Thomas Cook Travel a few months ago, retaining a 24.9% minority to prevent sale of DE to a competitor for 2 years. Although AB IS a competitor, this was more intended to prevent a sale to a "tiger" airline like QR or EK. LH's CEO Mayrhuber has been quoted that he could live with such a deal...

So after DI (DBA) and LT (LTU) this could become more and more probable - and that even faster than most people thought.

:eek:

[goldeneye]

I doubt very much that Thomas Cook would want to sell Condor to Air Berlin, they see it as a very important part of the company. Also i think the EU Competition Committe would prob not allow it, as it would considerably reduce competion in Germany further, after the takeover of DBA and LTU.

[virginblue]

No, they don't see Condor as an important part of the company. Quite to the contrary according to CEO Thomas Middelhoff who wants dump Condor asap.

[Danmadole]

Noticed Niki A320 operated both sectors into Belfast City from Stansted yesterday. Anyone know the reason? Have Berlin bought Niki out as well???:eek:
or have Air Berlin a fleet shortage at the minute?

[eu01]

Niki? It's an old story.
On 9 January 2004, Air Berlin announced cooperation with Niki. The two airlines considered their cooperation a "low fares alliance". Air Berlin now holds 24% of Niki and Niki Lauda holds the rest of the shares.

[sat1]

ok.this is a bit boring but.....AB had A/C go tech at manchester 2day so maybethey did some swapping around???????

[kingair9]

No need for a special event like a tech or so - AB and Niki swap their aircrafts around all the time. Had Niki planes on AB legs already several times, as well as 2 Niki flights on AB planes.

Although AB only holds a minor stake in Niki, Niki is in practice handled as a subsidiary. If you want to book a Niki flight, you book ONLY on AB website, they don't have an own sales dept etc etc.

So no big deal there.

[brakedwell]

I would like to see AB/DBA resurrect the MUC-LGW service that was dumped by BA last year.

[kingair9]

This does not seem very probable to me as AB has a hub operation in STN. I would see EZY take up that route more probably.

[ALLMCC]

STN/BHD/STN sector operated again today by A320, only one of AB's own this time. AB website also shows A320 for tomorrow (Sun) then back to B737-700 from Monday onwards - perhaps loads demand A320 capacity.

[Mr Flaps]

I cant say todays load was anything to shout about. There where only 80 pax on it today going to Belfast and today it had come from HAJ and sometimes a F100 comes from HAJ. They could be a F100 down but not sure.

[Mr A Tis]

Travel on any Air Berlin flights anywhere & it could be a B733, B734, B737, B738, A319, A320 or a FK100. It just happens on the day, there is rarely any significance as to what operates where..it just does. It is also just as likely to be an AB, DBA or Nikki machine.

[WHBM]

Contrary to some beliefs, airlines do not just allocate aircraft willy-nilly to routes, all is planned beforehand for the obvious reasons that :

1. You need to know how many seats you can sell.
2. There are only a finite number of each aircraft type in the fleet and you will be trying for best utilisation of all of them.
3. You need to have the right crews on hand for the types operating.

Yes, you can make a plan where different types appear on different days/weeks, BA do the same out of Heathrow on European routes. Likewise you can have a bit of scope for ad-hoc changes where you need to. But the latter cannot be common and every day.

[Ian Brooks]

Air Berlin do seem to have a very flexible plan as as the aircraft on a certain route do vary day to day and the next week is totally different and the following week is totally different again

Can anyone explain how so many changes can be made without it being so complicated i:e crew roster, aircraft roster and even how many seats are sold per flight

Ian

[Mr A Tis]

AB are considerably more flexible than the likes of BA.
Certain routes ( med haul) are more or less cast in stone- but the rest of the routes are completely flexible. It is a highly efficient operation designed to be adaptable and it does change on a daily basis. It is far from willy nilly.

[Riker]

Who operates the FK100s? Are those Air Berlin pilots or Germania pilots? With all of the AB expansion, why would Germania pilots not want a piece of that action and leave for AB? Just wondering....

[kingair9]

Who operates the FK100s? Are those Air Berlin pilots or Germania pilots? With all of the AB expansion, why would Germania pilots not want a piece of that action and leave for AB? Just wondering....


Riker,

All F100's in Germany are operated by Germania (ST) for AB, X3 (Tuifly, former HLX), DI and in their own colour scheme. Not only the drivers, also the FA's come from ST. Remember that the deceased owner of Germania, Dr. Bischoff, transferred the management of ST to AB's Mr. Hunold (his former arch-enemy) on his death bed in a very surprising move.

So in fact, Germania IS kinda part of AB.

Why the pilots don't change to AB? Because AB has no F100 and they would have to apply at AB just like any other pilot from any other airline who does not hold an Airbus of 737NG rating.

[DONTTELLTHEPAX]

I overheard two Airberlin managers, talking about Airberlin
doing STN-GVA in late winter 2007.

They were also talking about a daily LPA or TFS in the pipeline.

[rusty_c]

Theyve always done a GVA in the winter as for liverpool, VLM have just pulled out of that route into LCY bt i dont know if it will work as a point to point route as the train service is good from liverpool itll probably be all onwards if they do try it

[DONTTELLTHEPAX]

LPA is Las Palmas not Liverpool :8

[rusty_c]

i stand correct, i was tired!:D

[Vapor]

From RTE News today....

Air Berlin soars on Ryanair rumour
Thursday, 5 July 2007 12:14
Shares in German airline Air Berlin jumped as much as 8.7% this morning on market rumours of acquisition interest from Europe's largest budget airline Ryanair.

Air Berlin said it was not aware of any takeover interest from Ryanair. 'Ryanair has a policy of not commenting on market rumours or speculation,' said a spokesman for Ryanair.

In May, the chief executive of Air Berlin said he was keeping an eye on the consolidating European airline market after snapping up German rivals recently to expand its network with domestic and intercontinental routes.

AdvertisementThe airline listed on the German stock exchange a year ago

[Mr Flaps]

Have got wind that AB could pull the plug on there GLA and BHD service out of STN due the high landing fees at the STN. BAA have scraped all discounts for airlines at the airport and landing fees have risen.
AB is not the only one, SkyEurope too are not happy about the increase in fee.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Air Berlin yesterday became the 47th airline customer for the Boeing 787, with the single largest European carrier order for 25 B787-8, with 10 more on option and 15 purchase rights.
Air Berlin plans to use them on new long-haul services.
I guess that they will also replace the LTU long-haul fleet.

[Mr A Tis]

Have got wind that AB could pull the plug on there GLA and BHD service out of STN due the high landing fees at the STN. BAA have scraped all discounts for airlines at the airport and landing fees have risen.
AB is not the only one, SkyEurope too are not happy about the increase in fee

That's easy, just move their German services back to Manchester & feed into there.
Let's face it there's precious little competition from Flybe. Only Luftahnsa to take on & their pricing structure is in a different world.

[virginblue]

I seriously doubt that AB would consider directs flights from Germany to MAN, GLA or BHD. The flights via STN are fed by six or seven flights to/from Germany and local domestic travellers and still are not brilliantly booked. So there is probably only a handful of pax from each German destination - hardly enough to justify a nonstop service. AB has tried, for example, DUS-MAN nonstop, but it did not work.

[Playamar2]

VirginBlue - Air Berlin operate Manchester to Hamburg (daily ex.Sat) and Paderborn (4 per week), so your comments are factually incorrect. These two routes have been operating non-stop for a few years so there must be a demand. They did operate both Dusseldorf & Berlin but as you mentioned they didn't perform strong enought.

[virginblue]

I meant of course replacing the STN flights with nonstops served from any of the current destinations that feed the STN hub. If there was demand for nonstop flights (like for HAM-MAN or PAD-BOH), Air Berlin would long have offered them.

[bhd-lonFLYer]

I think ab should offer some direct services to bhd as there is a lack of german routes from the belfast airports i can only think of berlin so surely they could do dusseldorf which is not served directly the reason most dont travel to germany is because of the not direct flights although easyjet have good loads to berlin.

Also the last couple of times i have travelled with ab it has had good passenger numbers around 80%-90% full on the BHD-STN route(or maybe i have just travelled on their busiset flights?).

[Mr A Tis]

I used the direct AB from MAN to both DUS & TXL when they ran. They seemed to have fairly good loads, esp the TXL. I think they were dropped to boost the STN hub idea.
Better connections in many cases can be had via the MAN-HAM route rather than STN, but they are often not shown or bookable as connecting flights, in preference to routing you via STN.
BA Connect /Flybe offer pretty ineffective competition, higher fares, small aircraft & poor punctuality. Lufthansa have cornered the C class MAN-German market often upping the aircraft to A321s.
We do need a low cost MAN-MUC service. The V bird was always full with people going to MUC via Niederrhein,there is no competition from LPL either on that route.
I think that MAN-HAM,MAN-TXL, MAN-MUC would offer far better connections & pax appeal than the STN shuffle IMHO.

[akerosid]

While the 787s will be replacing the LTU A330s, there is still room for considerable expansion. One possibility that occurred to me was the link between this order, FR's rumoured interest in AB and MO'L's interest in developing a long haul low cost airline.

AB is known to be interested in the long haul low cost concept also.

[conradmueller]

Ss it seems AB will axe all internal uk flights from the end of October.
Last flights seem to be STN-MAN 28th and STN-BHD/GLA on the 31st.

[HH6702]

lets hope this free's up aircraft for a direct link from ncl to germany then

[Mr Flaps]

AB have pulled the domestic routes for two main reasons. One is the high landing charges at STN and BAA's lack of interest in the transit point in arrivals. The airline has got stick of the transit point opening late and under staffed. This causes delays and had a knock on effect for the rest of the day. Which for staff and pax gets anoying.
It gives the idea that BAA dont care and they dont. Its a great shame to see a good airline leave the UK domestic market because of BAA.
AB will cut back the PAD and LEJ over the winter months. There will still be a big morining wave but all be returning to Germany. The mid morning wave will stay as will the afternoon wave but no domestic routes. The evening wave will be the same but no PAD in the evenings.
Its not just AB on the move, FR and NE are cutting routes from STN and moving them to LTN or droping them.

[conradmueller]

not sure seems to be the future of MAN-PAD (where people say it will stay) and the MAN-HAM (where some people say it will be axed) routes

[Sanjo]

i dont really agree with what you think is the reason of them leaving...

if the connecting product is not working for them, or the service delivery is not right, surely they should have identified that before they start... if every airline were only starting routes (risking losing millions of ££) to test whether they can deliver them, there wouldnt be a lot of airlines around.

also, if STN is too expensive for them, why dont they use LTN for the same routes... the competition there is exactly the same, possibly even less. thats what SkyEurope does with their routes, moving them from STN to LTN.

i think the reason why they are dropping these routes is very straight forward. looking at their CAA stats, they never went over 60% on any month, on any of those routes, so didnt really make any money on them at all... in fact probably lost them millions...

[ATNotts]

Exactly who says that AB has pulled off UK domestics.

There's nothing on the AB website in news or press-releases. Also, there are so far no schedules released for STN services from or to Germany either.

Unless the stroy is coming from ACL data, then it looks as though we're looking at "hearsay m'lud".

That said, Conrad is normally on the ball.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

The lady at the Air Berlin ticket desk in Manchester confirmed to me that both the MAN-STN and MAN-HAM routes will be withdrawn at the end of Summer 07. However, MAN-PAD is set to continue. It is unclear whether or not MAN-HAM will resume for the Summer period 2008.

[conradmueller]

STN schedules were released a few days ago. All planes turn now at STN.
Leipzig being dropped.

[Mr Flaps]

AB have very good loads on the domestic routes, over the last couple of weeks the domestic's have been full.
I dont see how EZY and AB can be compared two very different airlines offering two very different products. AB connect within there own route network and have the link with HG. EZY have none of this.
AB dont live and die by the low cost model that Southwest and Ryanair follow. In some ways AB are like Go.

The reason AB have not gone to LTN, there is not good answer, but something may be a factor. As a WIZZAIR manager put it to me. LTN still has a small image problem. I could be wrong.

[conradmueller]

Air Berlin is a mixture
1. holiday airline (most traffic)
2. full service airline (all ex dba routes)
3. a low price airline (all AB euro shuttles)

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Air Berlin would have great difficulty getting the morning slots they require at Luton. All of the slots up to 08.00 local are pretty much taken.

[Buster the Bear]

I would guess that Air Berlin are axing the UK domestics as the past and present yields are losing them money?

Now that might be due to:

Terminal/transfer delays
UK based airlines know the UK market better
More money can be made elsewhere whilst UK interest rates are high and the resident Lo-Co's have danced the 'rain dance' to get themselves bookings during the school holidays that were massively missing?

The UK market is such that profits are made in the 3 summer months, Buster understands that the rain has at last brought bookings and income leading to survivability?

Yet another UK interest rate rise will only see a more difficult UK market. Air Berlin, a multi national operator has probably recognised this and moved spare capacity elsewhere?

You have to remember, unlike most of mainland Europe, the UK interest rates are base upon the UK economy and not that of the rest of Europe.

[conradmueller]

Transfer in STN is one of the biggest problems, because STN is not a transfer airport and coming from Germany you always have to take this stupid train to the main terminal, pass immigration and have another security control before you can return to the gate.
Even though Air Berlin has practically its own transfer point this is still not very nice.
The internal uk market is for Air Berlin additional revenue, but I think main reason for the STN-hub was for transfering passengers.

[ATNotts]

I think that when trying to operate the STN hub, AB simply did not appreciate that because the UK is not part of Schengen, and insists instead on full immigration checks on EU arrivals, this type of operation is just too difficult to manage efficiently.

Last year some friends of ours nearly missed their connection from NUE, onward to GLA because of a combination of UK Immigration and STN inefficiency.

Compare the STN hub with the far larger operation in Nürnberg. There, the hub works like clockwork. Certainly the lack of immigration controls for most of the hubbing international flights plays it's part; but then compare the efficiency of that operation, with proper staffing levels by AirPart (the handling agent) and the airport itself compared with the shambles this is "UK plc" (horrible expression) and UK airport handling in particular, where everything is done at minimum cost, with minimum staffing levels.

It's a shame since AB are generally acknowledged as being the best LoCo operator in UK in terms of service, and it's just unfortunate that they couldn't make the STN hub work.

[Mr Flaps]

Yeah AB are dropping PMI at the end of the summer too, but it might come back next summer but dont think so.

[JC-77]

Does anyone know the planes used on the STN-MAN route with Air Berlin? I have heard two different ones the Fokker 100 or B737-800:confused:

Thanks! :)

[BFS/BHD]

Air Berlin chop and change their aircraft type all the time. Your best looking at the timetable section on their website. This will give you what type is due in for the next three days!

[ADC2604]

I do wish that AB would offer some routes from Exeter in competition with Flybe - not because I think Flybe are bad coz I actually really enjoy flying with them, but it would give a bit more variation on the apron. I like AB colours and its a shame they wouldn't consider EXT........a F100 could be good on some routes.

[conradmueller]

MAN-STN F100,B737-300 (ex dba), B737-700 and B737-800´s are all used.
You can see the regs at: http://www.ringwayreports.co.uk/aug07scheduled.htm
MAN-HAM is operated by B737-800 or A319
MAN-PAD is operated by B737-700 or -800

[britmuc]

Air Berlin’s LTU takeover goes ahead (http://www.airberlin.com/site/index.php?page=start.php&LANG=eng&all=1)

08.08.2007The German Federal Cartel Office has agreed to Air Berlin’s LTU acquisition without any restrictions. Already and of March Air Berlin announced the intention to buy LTU for 140 million Euro. Additionally, Air Berlin offered to pay 200 million Euro for LTU’s debts.
Air Berlin’s CEO, Joachim Hunold welcomed the decision of the Federal Cartel Office: "We finally got the strategic decision that we hoped for. Nevertheless, it is regrettable that this process took so long. Synergies
could not be exploited. We missed the chance to adjust summer flight time tables of both airlines."
From 2008 onwards the Air Berlin board is expecting to make cost savings between 70 and 100 million Euro annually. Hunold explained: "If we can achieve this, is depending as well on trade union negotiations with LTU pilots."
The LTU has 27 planes and employs almost 2,800 people. Last year the company had a turnover of 1.06 million Euro and 5.7 million passengers. After the completed takeover, LTU will operate as an independent
Air Berlin company.

[Jes]

Last year the company had a turnover of 1.06 million Euro and 5.7 million passengers.


Shome mishtake, surely?

[andy1205]

do you know if airberlin will be doing flights out of cardiff soon

[virginblue]

Don't think so - they are currently axing everything (MAN, GLA, BHD, BOH) outside London and are also cutting back STN-Germany (LEJ to go, afaik).

[conradmueller]

according to an Air Berlin Forum in Germany, even PAD-MAN and PAD-BOH are going to go at the end of the season.
But now new: MUC-STN from November, is now bookable.

[Mr A Tis]

Very disappointing to see AB leave the regions & stick with STN.
Judging by the fares Jet2 are charging for MAN- Berlin in December they must be having fairly good loads. Also given Flybe's poor showing/popularity & also the lack of competition on MAN-MUC, it's almost unbelievable that AB can't sustain a Berlin & Munich service from Manchester. Their Hamburg route from MAN has suffered from chopping & changing times-but that could easily be developed into a good connecting hub rather than STN.

[ADC2604]

Looks like the change of direction AB took has backed fired on them. I think, despite comments, load factors on BE German routes are actually quite good.

[conradmueller]

MAN-HAM is staying and bookable since today.
Connection flights all rerouted via HAM instead of STN.

[virginblue]

Which is, however, not possible from a number of German airports due to the lack of domestic services to HAM (e.g. from TXL, FMO, PAD, HAJ).

[ORAC]

Air Berlin to buy Condor from Thomas Cook (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5h1Yd8yEbU56oSB-gk3uz5l4Er0ww)

FRANKFURT (AFP) — German low-cost carrier Air Berlin said Thursday it was planning to buy the Condor airline from British-based travel operator Thomas Cook.

Air Berlin said it would buy Condor in two stages from Thomas Cook in a deal worth between 380 million euros and 475 million euros.

Air Berlin is planning to take over 75.1 percent of Condor in February 2009 and a further 24.9 percent in February 2010. The transaction requires regulatory approval.

Thomas Cook will end up with a 29.9-percent stake in Air Berlin as part of the deal.

Thomas Cook chief executive Manny Fontenla-Novoa said the tie-up would create "one of the leading low-fare airlines in Europe."

"One of the great things about this deal is that we get access to the capacity in Germany ... and also get access then to the synergies," he told journalists in a conference call.

Air Berlin said it believed it would make at least 70 million euros in savings from the tie-up.

Condor, founded in 1955, carries about seven million passengers a year.

It said in June it would be increasing long-haul flights for the winter season to meet rising demand after recording 20-percent rises this year in bookings for flights to destinations such as Mombasa in Kenya and Anchorage in the US state of Alaska.

[MaxBlow]

here a press release from the ab website:

Thomas Cook merges Condor with Air Berlin


20.09.2007
Air Berlin to become one of the leading European airlines

Thomas Cook to receive at least EUR 500 million in shares and cash

Estimated annual synergies of more than EUR 70 million

Positive effects on Thomas Cook’s balance sheet and results

Thomas Cook consequently executes on its Asset Light Strategy

Thomas Cook Group plc will merge its stake in Condor Flugdienst GmbH with Air Berlin PLC. Air Berlin therewith becomes one of the leading European airlines and will with Condor be able to enlarge its long-distance flight business, which it runs since the acquisition of LTU. Thomas Cook Group is consequently executing on its Asset Light-Strategy as promised. Both partners expect positive synergies of at least Eur70 million. Thomas Cook will receive at least EUR 500 million in shares and cash and has the option to gain a total amount of EUR 600 million over the positive share price development of Air Berlin. Through the integration of Condor into Air Berlin Thomas Cook will in addition achieve positive effects on its balance sheet and results. The transaction is subject to the approval by the cartel authorities.

75.1% of Condor Flugdienst Gmbh belong to Thomas Cook Group plc and 24.9 % to Deutsche Lufthansa AG. The agreement about the mutual shareholdings between Air Berlin and Thomas Cook ist still subject to Deutsche Lufthansa AG not asserting a contractual preemption right. The acqusition of 75.1% of Condor by Air Berlin will be completed until February 10, 2009. For the remaining 24.9% Thomas Cook will exercise its call options and afterwards will assign the shares to Air Berlin.

Air Berlin already offers a range of attractive flight connections between hubs like Düsseldorf, Berlin and Mallorca. Through the integration of Condor Air Berlin will be able to increase the attractivesness of its offer at the airports Frankfurt, Munich and Hamburg. In addition Air Berlin has just placed the biggest order in Europe for the currently most modern aircraft model Boeing 787 Dreamliner.

As Manny Fontenla-Novoa, CEO of Thomas Cook’s stated: "The agreement aims at reducing risk and maximizing flexibility. This transaction will create significant value for the shareholders of Thomas Cook and secure the long-term future for Condor. As the biggest shareholder of Air Berlin, we are benefiting from Air Berlin’s extensive flight offer. Together, we have a significant potential for growth. Furthermore, Air Berlin will remain a long-term strategic partner for Thomas Cook and provide us with flight capacities."

Joachim Hunold, Air Berlin’s CEO, explained in Düsseldorf on Thursday: "In light of the quickly progressing concentration process of European aviation, integrating Con-dor into the Air Berlin Group secures the future for both companies. Together, we will achieve international competitiveness. This step makes sense, especially following the takeover of LTU, since it will enable us to offer our clients a more tightly-meshed long-haul flight network."

Ludger Heuberg, CFO of Thomas Cook Group plc, emphasized that exchanging Condor shares for Air Berlin shares will increase profits per share for the sharehold-ers of Thomas Cook: "The participation in the new Air Berlin is worth more than a 100 percent participation in Condor." Thomas Cook plc will consolidate its share in Air Berlin at equity.

Ulf Hüttmeyer, CFO of Air Berlin PLC, said: "Earnings per share for Air Berlin will not decrease through Thomas Cook’s investment in 2009. They will more likely increase through the synergies that we will achieve."

Background information

Founded in 1955, Condor Flugdienst GmbH currently has a fleet of 35 aircraft and transported 7.8 million passengers last year. Sales volume amounted to EUR 1.2 billion. While Condor, like LTU, mainly focused on tour operators and travel agencies for its sales, Air Berlin concentrated on single-seat sales and sales over the Internet. Moreover, Air Berlin already has a high percentage of business travelers. Last year, Air Berlin transported 19.7 million passengers. Sales volume in 2006 amounted to EUR 1.57 billion. At present, the Air Berlin Group operates a fleet of 131 aircraft.

[petronas]

There have been many things happening with Air Berlin the past 2 years, mergers resulting in the acquisition of important slots. Large amount of B787 on order and several on option.

Where is Air Berlin going? What are their intentions? Fleet consisting of both Airbus and Boeing - a cost issue in the future?
Will they be able to keep their generous in-flight service and baggage allowance strategy even though they are considered a low cost carrier?

Bases in Stansted, Nuremberg and Palma; rumours about closing Stansted??

New routes?

Anyone who has any interesting information, please share it!

[eu01]

I think you could read an existing Air Berlin thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=217638) first. Concerning the Stansted hub, Air Berlin has already given it up, it is not any rumour, it's a fact (http://www.iii.co.uk/news/?type=afxnews&articleid=6326319&subject=companies&action=article).

[DONTTELLTHEPAX]

On 1st November the first of two Boeing 757s in Air Berlin livery took off from the Nuremberg hub with Tenerife as its destination.
anyone know where a photo of the 757 can be found ?

[petronas]

The reason why I asked was because I couldn't find anything interesting in the thread (manage somehow to open a new thread instead of adding to the existing one - my bad!)

Also closing Stansted hasn't been confirmed (please correct me if I'm wrong), only that they're pulling out of the UK domestic market. The Air Berlin website still mentions Stansted as a hub.

Belair 757 in new Air Berlin livery
http://www.flightforum.ch/forum/showpost.php?p=481528&postcount=10

[airhumberside]

Also closing Stansted hasn't been confirmed (please correct me if I'm wrong), only that they're pulling out of the UK domestic market. The Air Berlin website still mentions Stansted as a hub.
Aren't all flights operated from German bases now?

[petronas]

at the moment they have a big hub on Palma serving the spanish market as well as Stansted, northern europe etc. Also there are flights operating international from Stansted that doesn't go through Germany...

[sat1]

Also there are flights operating international from Stansted that doesn't go through Germany...


REALLY???? Air Berlin???????????? you sure?????????

[petronas]

no sorry I didnt have my facts clear, they all go through Germany of course

[Playamar2]

A quote from a well known aviation magazine states the airline is in talks to establish new connections between Germany and the UK after suspending its UK domestic routes.

I would imagine that Manchester to Berlin must be high on the agenda as no airline currently flys the route.

Playamar2

[northumberlandairway]

Newcastle to Berlin would be grand too. EZ pulled the route last year despite everything pointing towards the fact that the route was succeeding. Newcastle has only one budget route to Germany at the moment (Hanover) and it's about time someone developed the links to the North East a bit... And if it's Air Berlin - Brilliant!

[conradmueller]

They won´t fly NCL-DUS, because LH just upgraded to 2 x daily on that route.

[GW76]

Never say "wont". Perhaps they are getting in first and know something amateurs dont.

[HH6702]

AB will add NCL to the route network shortly.

Would be nice to see them add DUS but i would have thought the airport would want them to operate other routes 1st.
SXF, CGN & MUC would be my 1st guesses

[conradmueller]

SXF: Air Berlin has stopped to fly there since Nov. 1st.
CGN: Air Berlin doesn´t operate any so called Euro shuttle flights from there. From CGN only internal german and holiday flights.
MUC: who knows?

[Mr A Tis]

My money would be on a NCL-TXL service. Wouldn't be surprised to see them come back to MAN-TXL too , now there are no flights on that route.

[DONTTELLTHEPAX]

From AB's Website it now looks possable to book the following
from London Stansted via German Cities. :ok:

Newyork
Fort Mayers
Puerto Plata
Punta Cana
Male
Phuket

[ATNotts]

All AB long haul flights will be with transfer in DUS, or possible MUC. No danger of A330s at STN in the near future!

As for the wild speculation regarding UK, and in particular NCL routes for AB, I would certainly back Conrad Mueller's comments. I would have thought it highly unlikely that AB would even consider going head to head with LH on a very secondary route such as DUS / NCL.

My guess (and thats just what it is - a stab in the dark) would be TXL / BHX and / or MAN. Keep an eye on the airline's website press ection for the facts.

[CentreFix25]

AB will add NCL to the route network shortly.Reliable source, or just wishful thinking? I suspect the latter.

[northumberlandairway]

Speculation or not, NCL is woefully underserved by any type of carrier to Germany. Three flights a week to Hanover with TUI Fly and the now twice daily route to DUS with LH. There is definitely a market for more flights to Germany.

Everyone up here still has no idea why EZ struck the route to SXF, apparently it was quite successful and whenever I used it there was rarely an empty seat. It seems to me that Air Berlin has realised there is a gap that needs filling and the likes of FR, EZ or Flybe don't seem to want to. Hopefully a route to TXL will be announced soon and possibly MUC as well.

How long before someone at Wizzair realises that the only flights to Poland are to Krakow and there is nothing at all to the Baltics or Hungary?

[booze_ssc]

These are the PMI hub figures for 2007. CE= European Cities. PE: Iberian Peninsula (Mainland Spain & Portugal)

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/4193/01ph0.jpg

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2517/02wp3.jpg

Air Berlin moved 5.760.960 passengers in Palma, though not all of them fly in "network" flights.

[bhd-lonFLYer]

Could someone tell me when airberlin's winter 08 flights are available for booking.

Many Thanks

Oliver aka bhd-lonFLYer

[thepeacock]

Long story short > Air Berlin and Thomas Cook are having second thoughts on the Condor deal

[eu01]

Air Berlin's second-quarter profit rose 38 percent as revenue growth more than offset higher fuel costs.

Net income increased to 8.3 million euros ($12.3 million) from a year-earlier figure of 6 million euros, adjusted for takeovers and disposals, the airline said today in a statement. Sales rose 6.7 percent to 869.5 million euros.

Air Berlin plans to drop flights to China and reduce its fleet to 120 jetliners from 134 by the end of 2008 to help cut costs.

The carrier is targeting positive earnings before interest and tax for the full year.

[eu01]

Air Berlin reported third-quarter earnings that exceeded analyst estimates and said it will have a “positive” full-year result after cutting unprofitable routes.

AB's earnings advanced 28 percent to 89.1 million euros before interest and taxes. The share price rose as much as 14 percent in early Frankfurt trading.

[Seljuk22]

Yeah, but be careful!
Net profit Q3 2007: 60,8 mio.; Q3 2008: 45,6 mio.
9 months 2007: 31,5 mio.; 9 months 2008: -5,6 mio.

AB sold/will sell a/c (so they got/get money), no outlook for 2009, route reductions...still uncertainty!

[eu01]

According to the German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung, Etihad Airways is considering acquiring a stake in Air Berlin, taking advantage of the attractive stock prices. Etihad could use Air Berlin as a feeder, it would give them also the better negotiating position for new flight rights to Germany. Both airlines declined to comment so far.

[SWBKCB]

Etihad could use Air Berlin as a feeder, it would give them also the better negotiating position for new flight rights to Germany. Both airlines declined to comment so far.

Oooh, great! Does that mean we can re-start the "Air Berlin to Newcastle" rumours?

[beaucaire]

..but currently the name of the buyer is unknown. Rumours indicate Etihad could be the one,since some weeks ago the airline from Abu Dhabi was reported as interested to enter the capital of the second largest airline in Germany.
Air Berlin PLC & Co Luftverkehrs KG - euro adhoc: Air Berlin PLC / other / Disposal of shares in Air Berlin PLC | PresseEcho.de (http://www.presseecho.de/finanzen/NA3731331864.htm)

[Nipper1011]

Etihad deny any involvement so who is the mystery buyer?:confused:

[Flare-Idle]

May be easyJet ???

[davidjohnson6]

Lufty ? They're buying everyone else.... !

[Seljuk22]

Why easyJet? I think AB and EZY would fit very good. EZY could have a lot of domestic routes/slots to the big airports. Heard something they would fly to FRA but they don't have slots. AB have some.

LH not because they will have problems if they want OS, BMI, SN and AB. This is too much and fwhy AB? They are not profitable and the future is not clear.

[Seljuk22]

German newspapers report that AB will sell LTU. Long-haul bookings decrease. More short/medium haul concentration in the future.

[Seljuk22]

Strategic alliance between Air Berlin and TUIfly


TUI Travel PLC and Air Berlin PLC are to enter into a long-term strategic partnership for their German flight business. A corresponding agreement was signed today. The agreement is based on a cross ownership in which TUI Travel PLC through a subsidiary, will have an interest of 19.9 percent in Air Berlin PLC and vice versa Air Berlin PLC will hold 19.9 percent of Hapag-Lloyd Fluggesellschaft mbH/TUIfly. The Supervisory Boards of Air Berlin, TUI Travel PLC and TUI AG have already approved of the plan. Provided the competition authorities approve of our intention, the transfer of economic responsibility will take effect as of 1 October. Until then nothing will change for the customers of both airlines. When the agreement is coming into effect the former TUIfly city routes will be operated under the flight number and product standard of Air Berlin. The tourism business will be marketed unchanged under the TUIfly brand.

The central component of the agreement is for the previous city flight business of TUIfly to be transferred to become the commercial responsibility of Air Berlin starting with the winter flight schedule 2009/10. Of the in total 38 aircraft that TUIfly will operate from 2010, 17 planes will be chartered to Air Berlin via a long term wet lease (i.e. including the crews). The remaining 21 aircraft will be operated in future under the TUIfly brand purely for TUI Deutschland tourism flights.

airberlin.com - Press Releases (http://www.airberlin.com/site/pressreleases_dr.php?LANG=eng&ID=1710)

[Superpilot]

Can someone tell me how the hell, Air BERLIN cannot have a direct flight between STN and Berlin???

[MUFC_fan]

Does that pretty much give this new TUI/AB 'agreement' the German market ex. Lufthansa?

Its like Thomson Airways, Thomas Cook and easyJet merging - the holiday markets are now theirs surely?

[apaul]

Air Berlin used to fly from Stansted to Tegel. Presumably it did not make money.