Instructor Shortage

[atplman]

Where is this instructor shortage coming from? The airlines aren't really recruiting at an amazing pace, but still almost every instructor that goes through the FI course is offered a job before the course ends, some are even offered a place before the course starts. How can you tell that a pilot is decent enough to instruct before they go through the course?
Out of interest how many instructors out there have not got a job, or only have part time work, when they want full time work? ie they don't have another full time job and instruct at the weekends.

[RVR800]

Well I fall into the full-time well paid job - occasional FI weekend work category.

Its the type of job (FI) that I may consider doing full-time when I retire for some pocket money.

Its hardly a shortage occupation with its self-subsidising nature and lowish pay.

[atplman]

There is a shortage as anybody who does a course gets a job. For example can you imagine if anybody got themselves a frozen atpl they'd go into a turbo prop or jet? They say there is a pilot shortage at the moment, but its not in the airlines. I agree that the market is as buoyant as it has been for a while but still...................
I have been to a few schools and it seems that the majority of their instructors either can't fly multi crew due to their medicals or instruct part time with an airline job or other well paid job.
I understand where you are coming from in that instructing isn't the best paid job in the world, will this change? I doubt it as the overheads that flying schools have won't really allow larger wages other than increaseing the hourly rate of the a/c which is already hellish

[EGBKFLYER]

I'll be interested to find out about any shortage - hoping to finish my FIC in the next four weeks and will be looking for a full time position (time to make the career change...). No offers have come my way while I've been doing the course but the employment rate at the end is 100% within a couple of months, so I'm quite hopeful.

Not looking forward to the 60% pay cut but I think it'll be worth it for the job and the opportunities that may follow...

[atplman]

Where are you doing the course?

[EGBKFLYER]

www.ontrackaviation.com, mainly as they could fit me in part-time (to keep the day job as along as poss!). I highly recommend them.

[atplman]

I've been looking at buying their notes actually

[EGBKFLYER]

Can recommend the notes too. PM me if you want any more info...

[RVR800]

I was told that a flying instructor between WWI and WWII could make a career out of this profession (by a man, sadly deceased, who had been there).

It was in those days, a well paid profession. That situation was of course altered after the war, when many pilots flooded the market and labour rates fell. It's not changed since then and a shortage profession it is not. It remains a pocket money job paying often only what you would expect to be paid as an office cleaner over a whole year. (Altough that cleaner will have not paid much for his licence)

Many of the jobs currently available are stop-gap for airline bound people who flood the market seeking to add hours into their log book but who will probably quit after 1000 hours or so... returning to previous jobs or getting into Eastern etc... they often wont be bothered about the wage; as the hours are more important..

Essentially there are two groups; retired guys and the hours builder; very few use it as a proper career as it isnt a proper wage/job for many

[atplman]

The market is far from flooded with instructors. If it was flooded well established schools would not be offering jobs to people off their own fi courses. An instructor is made with experience, not by simply finishing a 30 hours course
I will agree with you though that an instructors job is now seen as an hour building exercise and a stop gap to the airlines

[RVR800]

No I said flooded with PILOTS - its just that they are now fATPLs not ex-RAF
same effect - depressed labour rates - its feeding into the airlines also - used to be well paid salary pension for most; now just for a few..... Its good to be a punter low-cost but to be a low-cost pilot well maybe OK but can you pay your way that is the issue...

[rotorhet]

u guys are lucky here in The Sultanate of o..... they become examiners as soon as they get the instructor rating.

[no sponsor]

Attempting to find a course, get a start-date and get going with an FI course seems to be an uphill struggle for me at the moment - I never assumed that it would be this hard to get onto a FI course.

I have an offer of a part-time job once I've completed it.

In my time during my ATPL CPL & IR I've always been used to schools biting my hand off to start (and take my money). Not with the FI course, and I've been wanting to start since October. I have had two false starts with schools where the promised dates never materialised, or the instructor never bothered to keep to their agreed dates.

So, if anyone has any information on decent FI courses in East Anglia (Cambridge area) then I would be very grateful.

[porridge]

no sponsor
Check your PM,s please.
Thanks, P

[atplman]

My point exactly, an offer of a FI job before you have even started the course. I don't know how good a pilot you are, but i'll wager that you aren't as good as you will be after you've finished the FI course.

[ToneTheWone]

N0_Sponser.

Have you tried Andrewsfield. Completed the course there in January with Carol Cooper. Very professional yet relaxed at the sametime. Above all else, I enjoyed it and it improved my flying skills.

ToneTheWone:ok:

[Rivet gun]

Interesting that pretty much everybody reccomends their own FIC instructor. So there must be some good FIC instructors out there, which implies that at least some people consider it worthwile staying with instructing long enough to become CFIs, FEs, FIC instructors etc.

I am thinking it would be nice to do some instructing again part time, but if working for an airline you can't be paid anything for instructing on your days off else it counts as aerial work and compromises your FTL. How many flying schools have current airline pilots instructing part time?

[Pink skies]

try andrewsfield. Superb training, and definetly themost enjoyable course of all.

[LEVC]

Yeah, very nice attitude, i would like to see how nice is this attitude if a former airline pilot being now working in let's say finaces and banking do free part time job in an airline ******* up jobs for the people interested in working as pilot in the same airline, woud like to see what would be your reacion if you losse your job or get a cut in your wages because some ******** is working for free.:8



I really think experienced pilots working in airlines or in other fields of aviation have a lot to offer to students and contribute to achieve a very high quality training, but it shouldn't be at the cost of making it more diffiult for those who are full time FI's and that have to pay the bills with the money hey earn instructing.

And please don't give me the old bull**** saying that all FI's are hour builders and they don't deserve to get paid cause they are getting experinece and bla bla bla.........

[Rivet gun]

So perhaps if a club has part time instructors working for free, the money which would have been paid to the "free" instructors should be split between the staff instructors. That way the staff instructors can afford to buy the part time instructor a beer at the end of the flying day (assuming he's not on the early roster the following morning).

Presumably an airline pilot could recieve expenses (e.g cost of FI revalidation) without it counting as "aerial work"?

[mad_jock]

Under JAR regs its states that flight instruction is counted towards FTL's if its unpaid or otherwise.

If the airline is operating under a JAR AOC they can't do it.
If they are operating under a CAA AOC they can.

[RVR800]

Yes we should be very grateful

[atplman]

Well its narrow minded individuals like yourself that run airports and want to see the end of GA. Without the airline part timers the school would find it difficult to fill the slots each day so that people could enjoy GA. These part timers come in to help and would be more than happy to not fly if there was a suitable amount of FI's about, but there just isn't

[RVR800]

Without these guys it would all end ... that is true
There would be no more low-cost

[atplman]

In actual fact without these guys it'd cost more for people to go through their training as less schools mean the prices will go up due to lack of competiton for the schools. Failing that with only a few schools left to work for the instructors will get less as the schools know that there are only so many places they could instruct. I have asked on my earlier post for full time instructors who don't have a job to come forward and as of yet none have. I know of three schools looking to recruit FI's no matter what their experience, one of which is offering almost £18000 on the basis of 600 hours flying a year

[EGBKFLYER]

less schools mean the prices will go up due to lack of competiton for the schools.

Possibly, although a lot of schools are not business-minded enough to even worry about what competition is doing - they're too busy keeping their own head above water!

To be honest, you've lost me with the whole airline pilot instructor thing :confused: - however if you care to share your knowledge on the schools you mention are recruiting, feel free! I am one of those FIs (nearly) who is seeking full time work...:ok:

[atplman]

Not sure i'm allowed to post the names of schools looking for FI's but if you were to send a cv to every school then i can guarantee you somebody will snap you up

[aztec25]

I'll be joining the queue for jobs too soon. Turned 50, spent all my working life in education (15 years as a teacher/lecturer). Waiting for final 6 ATPL results this week. CPL and then FIC courses booked in May-June. After that I'll be ready for a full time job and a career in flying instructing for the next 10 years as I will not be going on to airline work.

I'll keep everyone posted as to how easy or otherwise I find it to get a job later this summer.

Az

[atplman]

If its career you want i think finding a local flying school to get yourself unrestricted and then moving onto one of the integrateds or definatly an ir provider is the way ahead, unless of course you are rich and will do it for fun not for money :ok:

[EGBKFLYER]

Hoping to finish the FIC early April now, if the British wx plays ball...:\

I'm starting the job hunting today. Officially.:D Will let you all know how it progresses - or doesn't.

[superconstellation]

Good luck on your instructor job hunting EGBKFLYER, i will start my FIC soon...I know maybe is a little bit late, but better late than never¡¡¡

[atplman]

Maybe a lot of it has to do with reputations. As an instructor I try and keep a fairly low profile so that my name isn't known in the industry. I'd like to think I have high standards and don't rip my students off, and hopefully when the local airlines recruit i'll get snapped up. Airway to heaven, I have a lot less hours than you and whilst an airline job is what I want, I have been applying to schools closer to my home town, and one such school has come back with what seems to be a favourable offer. Not as much money as i'm on but closer to home, and probably more hours. Also without doing too much talking, more trying to network rather than find another instructors job, I was offered a job whilst taking an aircraft for 50h checks. Anybody who isn't known in the industry as bad news, and I know a couple, will find work if they take the time to apply to the schools and not just think the schools will come to them