GA to the US - Settle a bet!

[Echo Zulu Yankee]

Hi Guys n Gals,

As is the common format I wonder if you guys could help clear up a conversation started in the pub between myself and a non aviator.

His bet was that there isn't a way to get a GA Aircraft over to the US from the UK, now I know that its possible as ferry pilots do it all the time but he, being the stubborn type, wants proof - so I'm going to march down with a map and a general flightplan next time I go see him and I need your help!

Lets say you got offered a job in America for two years fixed contract and you want to take your plane, you are a UK Based pilot with your own Single, for sake of argument we will say a Cirrus SR22, IMC ratings etc all current blah blah blah.

How would you get your trusty steed over there? what route would you take? I had a talk about 5 years ago with a Cessna delivery pilot who regularly flew the trip from USA to UK but what about the other way around? Please don't say just do it in reverse! lets see if some of you still have a sense of adventure ;)

I assume it would be something like "Base">Faroe>Iceland>Greenland>Canada>USA - How many stops and how long do you think It would take?

Purely in the name of fun!

All the best,

EzY

P.S The bet was for a quid so I'll split my winnings between all those that help out :ok:

[Julian]

EZY,

Heres something you can print out and show your mate.

http://www.faa.gov/ats/aat/ifim/ifimnat.htm

We brought our PA28 over form the US, one of the guys brought it with a ferry pilot.

You would need to extended range tanks and you would also need to get yourself IR rated as going VFR will probably kill you as complete VFR crossings are like chicken teeth!!! You would also not be allowed to ferry an aircraft over until you had several crossings under your belt with an experienced ferry pilot. Various other bits of kit are required as well such as liferafts, ELTs, dry suits, etc...

By coincidence, I remember seeing a website of a guy who had brought his SR22 over. Dont ask me to find it now though!

Donate my portion of the winnings to the Pprune fund....

Julian.

[Snakecharmer]

Last time I looked, the PIC had to hold an IR for the 'Northern Route'. Let's just not get into a discussion on the merits of FAA vs JAA IRs!

[0-8]

Ok, so this may not be a single but it's still a GA aircraft and it manged to cross the Atlantic in single leg:

http://www.diamond-air.at/en/press/pressarchive/40820.htm

[Chilli Monster]

It was all done by a fellow PPRuNer this time last year. A biggish download -
HERE (http://www.polestaraviation.com/Transatlantic.pdf) but well worth the read.

The Cirrus Ferry's Julian mentions are at:

http://www.cirrus147.com/ferry_flight.htm
And
http://www.cirrus147.com/GT_FerryTop.htm

[172driver]

well, first of all - hope you live near a cheap pub ;)

If adventure is what you're after, let me suggest two routes (one real, one rather fantasy).

a) the real one: if you have very long range / ferry tanks you could do the following:

Base - northern Spain (A Coruna) - Azores - Newfoundland - anywhere in US. Suggested equipment would include a dinghy and a few good books to read. On a more serious note, I know a chap who has done just this (maybe coming from the US however, not sure).

b) Fantasy/adventure: The Long Way Round

Base - St. Petersburg - Moscow - whatever there is in Siberia - Alaska - northern Canada - US

A Jet-A burning engine would probably help on this one, fluent Russian, metric altimeter, etc. I've recently read somewhere (think it was on AvWeb) that there has been a VFR route opened between Alaska and Siberia. Bring your thermal undies :p

Have fun convincing your man :ok:

[airborne_artist]

Google Polly Vacher - I arranged a talk by her last Friday to our local ATC squadron. Took up flying in her 50s, and having got an IR she flew her PA28-236 (Piper Dakota) around the world, twice. Once around the world roughly E-W, and the N-S. Longest stages were 16 hours.

[BroomstickPilot]

Echo Zulu Yankee,

If I remember my ATPL studies correctly, there are also two routes called 'G3' and 'G11', known as the 'blue spruce routes' that make it possible to ferry an aircraft with VHF only across the Atlantic. If I remember correctly, 'G3' routes to Gander and 'G11' to somewhere on the Western seaboard of the USA.

Does anybody have any better details of this?

Broomstick.

[spittingimage]

Done this a few times though I do have I/R.

'Tis possible VFR but I cannot recommend.

Suggested route Wick - Hofn - Reykjavik - Kulusuk - Sondrestrom - Iqaluit - Kuujjuaq then southwards wherever. Longest leg is Sondrestrom to Iqaluit at 490 nm.

Insurance would stop the project if you have not done it before. Common-sense suggests do it dual first and, no, I am not offering !

[Echo Zulu Yankee]

Thank you for the both serious and adventurous replies!

I think I've got enough to go on now - will draw some lines on a map and come up with some figures and that should sort him out.

What a true resource you all are- within a morning too!

Thankfully I am I/R rated but would probably never consider the trip in a single, especially not solo.

Perhaps after retirement when I have some time to play with ;)

All the best,

EzY

[drauk]

Here you go, not a chart or ruler in sight:
http://fly.dsc.net/u/Plan?fueld=12&tas=160&winddir=0&windspeed=0&pid1=11252170&pid2=11252634&pid3=15612360&pid4=20633&pid5=5507160&pid6=17593&pid7=17255&pid8=17921&pid9=14932923

Print that out and off you go.

[IO540]

I reckon (without working it out) that a decent tourer (TB20 etc, 1000+nm range) could do the Atlantic crossing direct (Shannon-USA) in either direction (usually W -> E is much better wind-wise) if fitted with a really big internal fuel tank and the rear seats removed.

Whether this can be done legally I have no idea, and the engine failure options aren't appealing, but they are only marginally more appealing on the northern route...

In reality, ferry pilots fly such planes via the usual northern route without ferry tanks. Much much simpler paperwork-wise; just plan the flight, wait for reasonable weather, jump in and go.

I believe the DA42 did it in the "easy" direction. Not sure I would have done that, having read the usual stuff about the Thielert engines...

[2Donkeys]

It was all done by a fellow PPRuNer this time last year. A biggish download -
HERE but well worth the read.

Chilli

Thanks for the link to my Blog.

On the subject of engine failures, my own view was the North Atlantic was preferable to much of the terrain of Iceland and some of Northern Canada. Still a lot like asking whether you prefer to be boiled in oil or hung, drawn and quartered. :D

2D

[flyingfemme]

As already mentioned, EZY, from here to there is no problem. To make it simpler you want an aircraft with 1,000nm still-air range. With less than that you need to go to Vagar, Kulusuk and (probably) Frobisher or get a tank. Standard route westbound is Wick, Reykjavik, Narsarsuaq, Goose.....for ease and financial reasons.

An IFR fit and rated pilot also make things simple......VFR is allowed but why make it tough on yourself?

Single engine you will need a bit more safety gear - you must also wear an immersion suit when flying.

PFA is even OK if you do the extra paperwork.

People do it every week....I have been across in about 8 singles, both directions, piston and turbine. The next will probably be in a few weeks.

It's fun.

[2Donkeys]

It's fun.

It certainly is. Not mentioned so far is the difficulty that you may well encounter attempting to obtain insurance cover if this kind of thing tickles your fancy.

Without previous accompanied crossings to your name and/or considerable experience behind you, you are very unlikely to get cover.

2D

[drauk]

2D, to what extent if any is insurance compulsory? If you didn't care about insurance and are instrument rated can one just file a flight plan, jump in and go (legally speaking)?

[flyingfemme]

Insurance is compulsory - from here to Iceland is EU and the EC785/2004 limits apply. The Icelandics also require a search and rescue clause in your policy; they will probably not actually inspect it unless you are flying a permit aircraft or something else that does not meet ICAO. Denmark require insurance for Greenland.

Only somebody very rich or very stupid would fly without insurance!

[2Donkeys]

I believe that the Greenland Authorities actually require insurance, although in my experience this has never been checked. It is the Greenland legs that the UK insurers seem to get awkward about. Most GA policies cover to Iceland without modification.

A policy with a US insurer will be necessary for the Canada/US end of the trip since Lloyds underwriters aren't keen on that either.

[cblinton@blueyonder.]

http://www.chasingthemorningsun.com/home_page.htm



See here for Manuel who is halfway round the world as we speak in an RV with no IR, IMC, Night just his courage.:ok:

[camlobe]

Yes it has been done westbound. Many times. And even in a PFA Permit aircraft last year, the two pilots visiting Oshkosh. They returned reverse route.

The sensible route is across the NAT (North Atlantic) from Wick/Stornaway to Rekyavik/Keflavik, on to Narsarsuaq, Goose Bay and onwards to the Canada/US border. Each leg is, for the sake of argument, 700 nautical miles. Diversions are few. Winds are generally less favourable in a Westerly direction.

You will not get insurance if you have not flown the NAT before, but you require insurance at this end, the middle, and the other end. Catch 22.

You can fly VFR in the NAT but will have to remain below FL50 as everything at or above is Class A. Your mandated radio calls will have to be relayed through overhead commercial traffic. No problem. They do it willingly.

You would not consider doing it between November and March unless you are a) tired of life, b) a compulsive gambler, or, c) have an attention defecit syndrome problem .

There is a guy who flew Eastbound via the Azores - in a Cessna 150!! Story is on the web.

[IO540]

The north Atlantic is Class A above FL050?

[White Bear]

Sorry if it’s been mentioned already, but didn’t about 20 French pilots fly their single engine aircraft from France to Oshkosh and back this last summer?
I know I saw a thread on it.
Regards,
W.B.

[2Donkeys]

The north Atlantic is Class A above FL050?

The start of Class A varies by where you fly from that sort of level right up to levels that wouldn't bother an SEP.