Landing Clearances at MYNN

[nathanv]

I am a first officer working in the Caribbean region and have a question about when a landing clearance can and should be given. This may sound like a silly or obvious question but let me explain why I ask. One of the airports we serve is MYNN (Nassau), and the controllers there have a habit of issuing clearance to land whilst other aircraft are on the runway, and even clearing aircraft to line up and wait on a runway, having already issued another aircraft clearance to land on the same runway. I feel this is the result of issuing landing clearances prematurely, for example today we were cleared to land whilst on a downwind leg for a visual approach. I was wondering what the standard procedure is to determine when this clearance is issued.
Any help on this would be appreciated as I find the practice disconcerting and worrying from a safety point of view
Cheers
Nathanv:ok:

[John Doe II]

Perhaps its under influence from "the land of big opportunities"... :rolleyes:

This is what ICAO PANS-ATM Doc 4444 Chapter 7 will tell you:


7.8.2 Separation of departing aircraft
Except as provided in 7.10 and Chapter 5, Section 5.8, a departing aircraft will not normally be permitted to commence take-off until the preceding departing aircraft has crossed the end of the runway-in-use or has started a turn or until all preceding landing aircraft are clear of the runway-in-use.



7.8.3 Take-off clearance

7.8.3.1 Take-off clearance may be issued to an aircraft when there is reasonable assurance that the separation in 7.8.2, or prescribed in accordance with 7.10, will exist when the aircraft commences take-off.




7.9.1 Separation of landing aircraft....


Except as provided in 7.10 and Chapter 5, Section 5.8, a landing aircraft will not normally be permitted to cross the runway threshold on its final approach until the preceding departing aircraft has crossed the end of the runway-in-use, or has started a turn, or until all preceding landing aircraft are clear of the runway-in-use.



7.9.2 Clearance to land

An aircraft may be cleared to land when there is reasonable assurance that the separation in 7.9.1, or prescribed in accordance with 7.10 will exist when the aircraft crosses the runway threshold, provided that a clearance to land shall not be issued until a preceding landing aircraft has crossed the runway threshold. To reduce the potential for misunderstanding, the landing clearance shall include the designator of the landing runway.



Hope that will "brighten" up the flight deck ;)

[Spitoon]

The international rules, as shown by JD II, offer a lot of latitude and you will find many different variations in use around the world. The two ends of the spectrum are what you'll find in the UK (and many, if not most, other European States) where you will not get a clearance to land until the runway is all yours and that which is common in the US where you'll be cleared to land as long as the runway should be available when you get there.

In the UK, when you've been cleared to land nothing else will happen on the runway until you've finished with it. In the US - I understand but I've never worked it - the 'reasonable assurance that the separation in 7.9.1, or prescribed in accordance with 7.10 will exist when the aircraft crosses the runway threshold' is used to the maximum at many airports.

Can't say I like the US way but then I was brought up in the UK - I've spoken to US controllers about it who think that the UK way is ridiculously restrictive! But I have sympathy for pilots who have to guess what "Cleared to land" means at an airport somewhere they've never been before.

[nathanv]

Thanks for your imput, and I can see from it that there are obviously different applications of these rules around the world. I was trained in South Africa where the procedures applied are the same as in the UK, so to me this was a new experience. Thanks for clearing this up
Cheers
Nathanv:ok: :ok: :ok:

[Tarq57]

I vote for the UK way! To me the other way seems to invite another hole in the Reason Model, that one day might line up.....

[discountinvestigator]

The Reason model has worked well here. (And I studied with Prof Jim at Manchester). To give a landing clearance in anticipation is to invite a lapse.

Several runway squash events have occurred where a clearance was given and the runway was not free. Some have been "in anticipation" cases. However, we do get the odd "go-around" being interpreted as please land over the aircraft lined up on the threshold.

The US version defaults to dangerous. The other system defaults to safe. No landing clearance, go-around. US version required intervention.

Still, just like the EGKK go around, which is published as straight ahead unless ATC instruct. However, ATC may be the one sending you round for slow departing traffic, which goes straight ahead. Now, you have to separate. If you had a turn at 500 feet for the go-around, unless ATC said, then you would have a safe situation.