View Full Version : The way we think
Coldbear
12th Mar 2006, 20:33
Hi, just got a little question. Which of the following is the most right way of thinking?
1) when turning to base we should be at 500 feet, or 2) we should be at 500feet when turning to base.
Martin
Lister Noble
13th Mar 2006, 07:54
coldbear,
I think both are acceptable from the English Grammar point of view.
We are taught to be at 500-600 feet at the base-final turning point.
Lister:)
stiknruda
13th Mar 2006, 09:15
Martin,
If I understand your question correctly you are asking whether one should be at 500' before you turn onto base leg or that one should attain 500' once the turn is completed.
I don't really think that it matters! Once you turn to base you should be high enough to glide to the runway threshold should the donk stop.............. so, if you are forced to turn onto base a long way out, then be higher!
Stik
robin
13th Mar 2006, 09:26
Well said StiknRuda
I was flying with a friend who as we turned finals, looked down at the altimeter, read the value and said '600 - that's OK'. The fact that we were x miles out and low on the approach seemed to have escaped him.
I was always taught to fly the circuit looking the the relative angles to the landing point - something to do with being trained in gliders, I think. In fact, once established on the downwind leg, I rarely look at the altimeter again
slim_slag
13th Mar 2006, 09:27
Well stik, I think you once said you had a few hours in Eight Papa Bravo. The owner tells the story of him turning base at 1000ft, above midfield, sideslipping it down and kissing the centreline directly below. ATC loved it as they got a ringside view, but he had to stop doing it as the airport got too many phone calls asking about the lovely red plane that had crashed, lol.
Coldbear
13th Mar 2006, 17:43
Maybe i didn't clairify it enough, but there has actually been accidencts because pilots where thinking the wrong way...It is hard to explain, but there is a diffrence, I know.
Another example:
1) at 12DME we should be at 2200feet, or 2) at 2200feet we should be 12 DME out.
I hope you understand it a bit better now.
Martin
Monocock
13th Mar 2006, 18:01
Without wishing to be controversial, I can't help feeling that it is this exact type of over-analysis and literal belief in quoted numbers that can cause a fair few of our annual accidents.:bored:
If there are pilots out there who fly with such regimented adherance to book numbers I must say it concerns me somewhat.
Can I suggest you cover up the altimeter and fly some circuits. You will find you do not need the altimeter at all, you can look out of the window.
Rod1
Coldbear
13th Mar 2006, 18:30
I know you can look out the window and that is exactly what I'm beeing taught at the moment. the thing is when you brief for an instrument approach ex. and VOR/DME approach you got your crossing altitudes at specific DME's. Like should we be at XXXX feet at YYY DME or at YYY DME be at XXXX feet. what should we "chase"?
Martin
IO540
13th Mar 2006, 19:12
If you want to get into Stapleford or Wellesbourne on a sunny Sunday, you want to be at 500ft all the time, so you don't need to worry about the planes that cut you up on the inside (they will end up above you)
:O
I know you can look out the window and that is exactly what I'm beeing taught at the moment. the thing is when you brief for an instrument approach ex. and VOR/DME approach you got your crossing altitudes at specific DME's. Like should we be at XXXX feet at YYY DME or at YYY DME be at XXXX feet. what should we "chase"?
I'm not sure that I am understanding...
However, the DME station is fixed so the only thing you can 'chase' is the altitude (or reverse a bit).
Overall, I would probably suggest that you try to understand the trend of the aircraft (shallow/steep) and modify that based on the DME check distances. Little high at 12d, tweak the descent rate, check it at 11d.
Am I getting it????
Coldbear
13th Mar 2006, 20:11
"Overall, I would probably suggest that you try to understand the trend of the aircraft (shallow/steep) and modify that based on the DME check distances. Little high at 12d, tweak the descent rate, check it at 11d." - When thinking this over again...what if your low at 12dme? then you could risk hitting something? thats why the other mental thinking is better because you decent down to the altitude until the dme then futher decent. thats how I look at it.
Martin
Dr Eckener
13th Mar 2006, 20:43
thats why the other mental thinking is better because you decent down to the altitude until the dme then futher decent. thats how I look at it.
No, you set the aircraft up for a given rate of descent to follow the profile. If you need to alter the descent rate to maintain the profile then you do so. You are flying a descent profile based on a glideslope, not bumping down a flight of stairs!