Year Out of RAF Q!

[Andy_20]

Im ground crew and finding it hard to find an exat answer to this. I was wondering anyone knows if it is possible to take a year out of the mob (unpaid of course) to do qualifications or travelling?

[GipsyMagpie]

Yes. You can definitely do it but it may be an officer only or a case by case thing. Look through regs, JSP, DIN, particularly under RN regs as I know I have seen it there. I will look if I get the opportunity.

G

[Andy_20]

thanks, whose the best person to seek at work OC PSF!?

[Climebear]

Andy

No need to worry OC PSF (he'll only go and ask the chf clk anyway)! Your local (Sqn/Eng Wg or whatever your wg is called forward/depth/base sp ...) Clerk should be able to tell you. If you have access to the Intranet,you should be able to find for yourself in AP3392 Vol 2. If I get chance when I get in tomorrow, I'll look it up and give you the reference (sad I may be, but not that sad to know each AP3392 reference).

[Safety_Helmut]

Definitely go straight to AP3392. I normally find that after asking the shinies for help you have to go and look it up for yourself anyway. I am also pretty sure you can do it ?

S_H

[Andy_20]

Ha, cheers that would be perfect dude.... ill have a lok myself when i get bk in tomo night.

[Ginseng]

Your first port of call should now be JSP 760, which covers all forms of absence, including unpaid leave, from the introduction of JPA, for all 3 Services. If you have access to the Defence Intranet, use the "search" function for "JSP". The top option will be the JSP catalogue (in blocks of 100). Select "700 - ", scroll down to 760 and select. On the next page, select "Launch Document".

If you don't have access, ask your PSF for help (although they might be a bit busy with data migration for JPA at the moment!).

Do be aware that taking unpaid leave may mean that the time won't count towards your reckonable service for pension/EDP and some other entitlements. Read carefully.

Regards

Ginseng

[Tombstone]

Depending on what you are looking to get out for may be a factor too. For example, if you are looking to do some high level sport, you may get time off with full pay. I mate of mine took a few years out to train for the olympic Judo team only to be injured 6 months before the tournament began!! :ugh:

Good luck with it Andy.

[Andy_20]

Well im kinda of after going skiing for 4 months and starting my ATPL concentrating on teh hard stuff as i want my ppl in june... doubt theyll give me paid leave to go skiing... wish they would!

[tonkatechie]

I believe it's also in QR's - I'm not shiney enough to know which one! It's called a career break, and will no doubt refer you to another AP for the relevent documentation to apply. Success will no doubt depend on someone in your chain of command saying it's ok to go without you for a year, as it's unlikely that your post will be temporarily filled by someone else.
Good luck though.

[Rossian]

Hi andy20
Yes, you can have a year out; as I know someone who is starting hers this week. Remember! It's no pay! What the other ramifications might be I can't tell you. If you like, I can try and find out from the (metaphorical) horse's mouth. She'd kill me if I said mare's mouth.
The Ancient Mariner

[Andy_20]

That would be fantastic thanks? is that still current with all 3 services?

[Climebear]

JSP 760 is available on the Intranet here - Chapter 18 for Career Brakes

[URL="http://defenceintranet.diiweb.r.mil.uk/NR/rdonlyres/54B887FB-448D-4F1B-B67E-48021A03532E/0/20060126UJSP760V10.doc"]javascript:di_popup('/DefenceIntranet/Library/BrowseDocumentCategories/Personnel/WorkingHoursAndLeave/Leave/JointServicePublication760TriserviceRegulationsForLeaveAndOt herTypesOfAbsences.htm','DefenceIntranetBaseWindow');

The first para reads:

18. CAREER BREAKS


AIM

18.001 The aim of this Chapter is to set out the general terms and conditions under which the Armed Forces offer limited opportunities for Service personnel to take a Career Break (CB) where this does not compromise operational effectiveness. It is emphasised that CBs are granted at the absolute discretion of the Service; they are not a right and will only be permitted where manning margins allow and where they do not compromise operational capability. This means that inevitably some applications will be refused. Personnel on a CB will not be paid and will remain liable for recall to duty in the event of operational necessity. CBs may be for any period over 3 months and up to 3 years. Service personnel management authorities, however, may cap their duration at less than 3 years to minimise gapping and maintain operational capability. For the same reason it may be necessary to restrict the number of personnel on CBs at any one time.

[Training Risky]

Andy 20,

Where's Lytham?

[Andy_20]

Lytham is in the North-West of England, just outside blackpool and preston on the coast.


Thanks for that quote dude, think ill go see the chf clk today

[allan907]

Alternatively, you could just go skiing and not turn up for work next Monday. You can then have as much time off as you wish. This method also gives a little frisson in that you can have lots of excitement dodging the MPs and civvy police (after they've finished their speed camera work). When you have decided that the time is right and you wish to come back to work then you will find that you are the centre of attention. You will also get to meet lots of relatively high powered people who will travel miles to come and see you (it's called a District Court Martial) and at the end of this process you will be posted to Colchester for quite a long time and, while you won't be able to go off base, your food and accommodation charges are waived (I think). You might even be given the opportunity to seek a new career direction which might be useful as you don't seem overly committed to your present career - dude.

[BigGrecian]

Andy_20
Notice your posting in the Professional Pilot Training Forum as well.
Looking at becoming a pilot or FI in the civilian world after returning to work in the RAF.
How are you going to keep current?
I would imagine you'll end up with your licences working in the RAF doing no real development of your Civilian flying skills - and to what end?

Just a little unsure of your motives?:confused:

[Andy_20]

The only reason i am staying within the RAF is to fund my flying, so theres my motive atm, i do like my job, but i want more than just engineering!

Allan907 if your not going to post anything that helps, id appreciate it if you didnt post anything... its sarcastic kno-bbers like you which dont help anyone and disturb people from finding out relevant information... I do not see what concern of yours it is for me being committed to my present job... probably because i wasnt born with a silver spoon coming out of my arse, unlike some, i have had to work for what i want to achieve!

[Tigs2]

Andy
All Aircrew, Silver spoon or not have had to work to get where they are (and work bl***y hard too). Me thinks Allan was just having a bit of banter and for what he has written probably doesnt deserve to be called a Knobber. Lighten up or you'll die of stress long before you get your CPL/ATPL.

[AllTrimDoubt]

The only reason i am staying within the RAF is to fund my flying... I do not see what concern of yours it is for me being committed to my present job...

I think it is of every concern. Most people in ALL 3 Services - across the spectrum of commissioned/non-commissioned - are working bl**dy hard because of overstretch. And they have to work even harder because of selfish idiots like you whose ONLY concern is "what's in it for me" and then proposes a year off whilst everyone works even harder to cover your holiday. No way fella - if you worked for me the choice would be a simple one!

And if you were servicing my a/c I'd have a good look at the supervisory chain too!

And just to round off, I'm not sure - with your attitude - you'd fit into any cockpit environment - military or civil.

There - does THAT help?

[Kengineer-130]

I think it is of every concern. Most people in ALL 3 Services - across the spectrum of commissioned/non-commissioned - are working bl**dy hard because of overstretch. And they have to work even harder because of selfish idiots like you whose ONLY concern is "what's in it for me" and then proposes a year off whilst everyone works even harder to cover your holiday. No way fella - if you worked for me the choice would be a simple one!
And if you were servicing my a/c I'd have a good look at the supervisory chain too!
And just to round off, I'm not sure - with your attitude - you'd fit into any cockpit environment - military or civil.
There - does THAT help?

I think that just about sums up why most of the engineers are fooked off in the RAF :mad: . The guy is asking a simple question about wether or not he can have a year out, which it appears he is perfectly entitled to, to try and better himself and move his carreer along, not for the opinions of some jumped up knobber who obviously thinks he is better than a mere engineer. Then you have the cheek to question his technical ability and standards of work, I mean if the guy wants to fly proffesionally I seriously doubt he is going to not do his job properly, and risk the life of a supposedly "fellow" aviator, how dare you be so rude? Do you think he should just accept he's a ground crew scumbag, like all of the other mere mortals that keep "your" A/c flying safley and propmptly, and bimble along merrily for 22 years, collect a pension and leave, or don't you like to see people with drive and ambition. I know who I would rarther have sat along side me in the flightdeck, and it wouldn't be the guy who thought he had an automatic right to be there just because he has had sunshine blown up his arse from cranwell :mad:

Andy20, good luck with your training mate, I am currently doing my ATPL theory with a view to leave the airforce in the next few years, don't let the attitude of some people hold you back. Remember it is easier to bring people down than climb above them :ok:

[Snakecharmer]

Andy 20 - I saw your post on the professional flying training forum and was going to offer my one piece of advice there. However, the posts on this forum have shown one of the reasons for my advice, which is:

Keep your RAF career and your civil flying entirely separate, they really don't mix.

Have to say that, during my time in the RAF, any negative vibes tended to come from fellow engineers not the aircrew.

[Andy_20]

What was the point in that post? HOW IMATURE ARE YOU?! im suprised you could even get you ego into a cockpit! I am very committed to my job, and i dont intend to leave before my contract runs through? so where am i being a selfish idiot you fool? How can you even question my potential in my present job even though you do not even know anything about me and my job! Stop hassling people because you think you are above everyone else.

I know pilots within the RAF and everyone of them has been totally helpful! then i come on here to get some advice only to get wan kers like you posting crap when you dont even know me or my circumstances! i couldnt give a damn about a rank structure if you spoke to me in that manor to my face, id certainly tell you where to go!

Kengineer-130 and Snakecharmer the above is not relevance to you what so ever, cheers guys its people like you giving wannabes REAL advice that keeps people moving! You advice is much appreciated

[allan907]

Andy20 I'll now leave banter aside and concentrate on the serious stuff. Having read the different posts and your reaction to them I would have to seriously question your suitability for an AT flight deck. You seem to have a remarkably short fuse which, I suspect, would not bode well in areas such as CRM or emergencies. Chill .....or you'll kill.

[Tigs2]

KEngineer
Your post is UNNBeleeeivable!!

[AllTrimDoubt]

This - received as a PM from our erstwhile wannabee - clearly backs up the comments made by Allan907 above!

Mods - please delete elements from the copied PM as you see fit! I will block our friend from future comms!

"Dick

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your and idiot, how can you presume something about me when you know none of the circumstances! How come its dicks like you which have to try and look down on everyone else! You a jumped up little ****!"

Charming, eh?

[Tigs2]

Andy
you are way out of order. Suggest if you are going to take a year out to improve yourself you start with doing GCSE English! Mods! As for sending PM's like that this guy should be banned IMHO.

[Tourist]

I'm telling on you!

Mummy! Mummy!

That boy called me a bad name.



So he has too short a fuse. So what.Grow up.

He was getting a lot of unjustified abuse about asking for something he is perfectly entitled to do. Taking a year out extends his commitment by one year, thus seing nobody off.
To impugn his skills in any department was unjustified without actually knowing him.
Good on him for having some ambition!

[Andy_20]

TIGS2 what on earth are you talking about? why is KEngineer post unbelievable? why are you even posting in this question?

Allan907 sorry if i got the wrong end of the stick with you, im just sick of people looking down on people trying achieve something, the way i read your msg seemed degrading to wannabes and if this was not the case i apologise!

AllTrimDoubt, id appreciate it if you didnt post bk to a question to me as you only seem to be able to put people down and give bad advice seeing as you seem to be offended by people in the RAF 'playing the game'! Get a grip!

Tourist you are a legend! i dont see the harm in wanting to take a year out, if the RAF was against it why would they have it as an option to take!? or does the above think its just a right for aircrew? Its all about playing the game in the RAF, if you dont play then whats the point!?

[Tigs2]

Andy
I suggest if you want to use someone as a role model then it ought not to be Tourist. Calling someone a legend who lists their occupation as a Loafer and WAFU, well that says it all really. You get many differing points of view on this forum. You were the one who lowered the entire tone of this thread (your thread) by calling someone a knobber. What did you expect in return??

[teeteringhead]

Calling someone a legend who lists their occupation as a Loafer and WAFU .....
... perhaps he meant leg end....;)

[Tourist]

Who pulled your chain Teeters?:p

"loafer" might be construed badly, I grant you, but the appelation WAFU makes me one of the proudest elite among flyers. The Naval Aviator.:ok:

[ChezTanker]

JSP 760 is available on the Intranet here - Chapter 18 for Career Brakes

[URL="http://javascript<b></b>:di_popup('/DefenceIntranet/Library/BrowseDocumentCategories/Personnel/WorkingHoursAndLeave/Leave/JointServicePublication760TriserviceRegulationsForLeaveAndOt herTypesOfAbsences.htm','DefenceIntranetBaseWindow');"]javascript:di_popup('/DefenceIntranet/Library/BrowseDocumentCategories/Personnel/WorkingHoursAndLeave/Leave/JointServicePublication760TriserviceRegulationsForLeaveAndOt herTypesOfAbsences.htm','DefenceIntranetBaseWindow'); (http://defenceintranet.diiweb.r.mil.uk/NR/rdonlyres/54B887FB-448D-4F1B-B67E-48021A03532E/0/20060126UJSP760V10.doc)

The first para reads:18. CAREER BREAKS


AIM

18.001 The aim of this Chapter is to set out the general terms and conditions under which the Armed Forces offer limited opportunities for Service personnel to take a Career Break (CB) where this does not compromise operational effectiveness. It is emphasised that CBs are granted at the absolute discretion of the Service; they are not a right and will only be permitted where manning margins allow and where they do not compromise operational capability. This means that inevitably some applications will be refused. Personnel on a CB will not be paid and will remain liable for recall to duty in the event of operational necessity. CBs may be for any period over 3 months and up to 3 years. Service personnel management authorities, however, may cap their duration at less than 3 years to minimise gapping and maintain operational capability. For the same reason it may be necessary to restrict the number of personnel on CBs at any one time.

:) Does this mean, under AFPS2005, an individual that joined at 17.5 could ask for up to 2 years off at .... mmm ... 52 years and still get 35/70ths at age 55? Okay no pay for 2 years but full pension and index linked instead of EDP.

Interested PAS :D

[Kengineer-130]

My Unbeliveable post Tig? please explain?......:confused:

[Wyler]

Andy.

I have 2 friends who were in the same job as me. Both were unhappy and one went from one disaster to the other. Both had aspirations to become Civil Pilots. Nobody thought they had the balls or the intelligence to succeed and they were treated as a bit of a sideshow. One is now a Captain on 747's (freight) and the other flies business jets for a charter firm. Both are a happy as pigs in sh*t.
I really admire both for having the guts to dump a comfy, well paid living and take a huge risk. I could not do it.
Good luck to you.:ok:
To those who are moaning about the year out. Blame the system, not the individual.

[Andy_20]

Thanks wyler, top story!:ok:

[Samuel]

....and there I was thinking "PM" was an abbreviation for "Private Message"
I appreciate what it is you're trying to do Andy, but you sure have a short fuse!

[Tigs2]

Tourist
OK i concede on the WAFU bit:)

[RileyDove]

Andy - I think the thing to do is use your judgement and do what's best for yourself. Forget all the nonsense about 'the career' and over people covering for you. The people further up the ladder don't give two stuffs about guys like you - they want to keep good pensions and cave in to any demands for cuts . The RAF has been sold down the river by it's command and I should imagine there are plenty of people who used to enjoy the RAF when it embraced the value of it's people instead of the cost of them.

[Andy_20]

RileyDove great post, totally agree with you. i used to really enjoy the raf but its getting worse ran not like a military but more like a business, saving money and cutting corners everywhere to do it. The way i see RAF, if you play the game its not too bad!

[Kengineer-130]

I am afraid I have to agree wholeheartedly with both the above comments, The Engineering re-shuffle at RAF Lyneham was an absolute shambles, casued NUMEROUS flight safty hazards and pissed off 99% of the population of the camp, even the aircrew were disgusted at the treatment and lack of communication with the engineering trades, yet the ONE person responsible for the mess got an OBE and a Promotion, promptly did one, leaving some other poor Wing Co to try and sort her mess out :mad: . So in my eyes, its time to look out for number one, as no-one else will sadly, as the fat cats get fatter the junior ranks ( read 2nd class citizens) suffer accordingly. Use the RAF for what it can give you, enjoy it while you are in then get a job where you are appreciated :ok:

[Andy_20]

:ok: Totally Agree...

[AllTrimDoubt]

..... its time to look out for number one....the junior ranks ( read 2nd class citizens)..... Use the RAF for what it can give you, enjoy it while you are in then get a job where you are appreciated

QED
(The quote above says it all!)