Just a few words of wisdom please

[Tonic Please]

21 years old. 100h PPL. Canadian. Serious decision making going on for many many months. I have a high level of French and am extremely close to enrolling on an interpretation course at Ontario Uni. Just under 2 years course, with incredible job prospects after. Airline flying is, as the cliché goes, my dream as of 3 years old. However, with a pleantiful of reading on PPRUNE (being a member for many years) and my own active research, its only sensible to have a strong backup job/career so that one has finances and work available should flying not work out, or things drag on. I know how people have been wating for ages to hear back from interviews/applications. Let alone starting dates!

I'd just like to think I am making the right decision with this French Interpretation MA Degree. I mean, for goodness sake I'm 21. I could even be 26 when I'm around 1000 hours and a Multi/CPL etc., right? I also teach Jazz Piano as my main form of income for now, so I could use that as a backup also in the future. Of course, all this will take place in Canada. My dream place of residence having had 10 visits and unable to describe in words, my connection and comfort with the place.

Looking forward to a little natter about above post.

Regards,
Dan.

[cplpilot]

Education is #1 in my opinion. Once you got your degree, you have to think "what can i do for the next 35 years and be happy?" if the answer is flying, go for it, but be aware that you might not be able to afford many thing for a looong time. If you have a family to support (like i have) all is different!!! you have to think about the well being of others before you...

[Tonic Please]

Education is #1 I agree. I think taking this course will prove fantastic for my future, and I'd love to be an Interpreter as it's a very good life.. but nothing can take the Airline Pilot out of me.

I guess I'm 21, so I should not give up my 6 hours a day of French study!

Anymore comments gladly welcome.

Dan

[meaw]

T.P.

I was faced with the same dilemma as you 12 years ago.Get my degree or go flying.
I went for flying right away with the intent to get my degree either part time ot through correspondence....Well anybody familiar with the life of a pilot starting out could have told me that I wouldn't have the time to do both....and I didn't.
But the flying did work out,I got my first job and built my hours up.By the time my buddies were finishing university I was working at a regional flying Dash-8's.Not long after that I got on with a Major am flying jets just like I dreamed of.I am not encouraging you not to pursue your studies,far from that,but hours and experience are very valuable assets and timing is everything:we are at the beginning of an upswing right now.Anyway it worked for me and many of my friends but I also know many many guys that did university first and have extremely successful carreers as airline pilots.
Having a degree as a backup is also an exremely valuable thing for a pilot should you loose your medical or your job...If I were to have my cake and eat it too I would go for the flying and try to do university through distance education...it's not easy and it might be tough to do until you get on with a regional (and start having a life) but I did that and it worked.
Remember that by the time you finish university the upswing could be finished.
AC prefers a degree (today anyway) but wont turn you down just because you dont have one.The other airlines in Canada dont make it a condition of employment,but not having enough hours is definately a problem...
I say go for the hours.....but as soon as you get the chance try to get that education on the side.
just my 2 cents...

[slowstream]

Degree, Degree, Degree did I say get your Degree?

You will never go wrong with a Degree and you can still fly but you will always have that to fall back on!

Best of Luck to you!

[nolimitholdem]

I too, am a big proponent of education...BUT...

In a few years, it will still be possible to go to school. However, the good movement we are currently seeing in the industry, may not be still occurring. I've watched several of these cycles come and go. This is a prime time to enter the market....why not wait for the downturn in the flying side of the industry, to step out and finish your degree or other education?

Just a thought, certainly, statistically, you will make far more with a degree - any degree - than flying airplanes! Depends on your passion.

[Tonic Please]

Perhaps I need to add a little more of the scene. Money :ugh: I am not able to provide funding to achieve my CPL, Multi and IFR. I simply am not. A loan is not possible for various reasons and I have no credit card (never will). The grandparents are the ones who could help me, but then this will become very complicated. They're of the sort where as much as they try to help me, they treat me as a posession and think they are helping me with indirect nonsense like weekend seminars on life :yuk: with the perspective of if I do not do things their way, then they are reluctant to help, having no idea on my plans and abilities and desires and passions. Which is sad, but you tell them that.

So I'm pretty much alone in this. That's why I know that once this Masters in French Interpretation is done and I'm earning some quite admirable money, I'll be able to persue my flying, however..I may well maintain my Interpretation career and treat flying as a luxurious expensive hobby. I dont want to say I am using Interpretation as a stepping stone, as it's a very tough career as one might imagine, but as I have said, I'm 21.. Pilots can start careers at 30. That means I'll still have around a decade to play with the Degree and the employment after and then the CPL etc on the side when possible. I don't think I'll run out of time, as I have previously been thinking.

Good to be me eh :}

[cplpilot]

You seem to me that you made up your mind and don't have other choice...
In a way i understand your grandparents, because the bottom line is that education give you indipendence!!!
Does not make you smart or a better pilot but gives you choices, once you get your education and a good job you will have the resources to follow your dreams without asking anyone. Then you can decide to have an expensive hobby or a wonderful flying career. In any case it will be hard and tiring but...very rewarding:ok:
This is my opinion.... good luck for your future!

[nnc0]

The truth in Canada for the majority is that if you're flying to build up your hrs then you'll be nowhere near a university and even if you were, your financial situation would not be conducive to pursuing higher education at the same time. You could try instructing in a major centre but those jobs are proving harder and harder to find I think and the cost of living is higher in those places so it still could be difficult pursuing an education.

If you pursue the flying path before education you run the risk of losing education initiative and if not positioned well career wise, you could be caught in a catch 22 situation down the road. Working at a smaller outfit with life reponsibilities (eg Family, mortgage, etc) that make educational pursuits nearly impossible and thus decreasing your chances of ever moving up.

If you're really serious about flying then I would think the best route is to try and get into an 2 yr aviation college program such as Seneca college or Sault college, etc. It's quick and cuts your costs immensely (they're subsidized), carries a significant credibility advantage that helps with getting hired at a major and provides a wide range of industry and job contacts and first rate support network.

[morepilotbs]

Here is my 2 cents worth. I did both. I flew in the summer and went to University in the winter. It worked well for everyone. I was heading back to school just as things slowed down and the company was looking to lay someone off, so they were happy. I made great money by university student standards, plus logging approximately 500 hours every summer. It was an easy choice at the time because no airline was hiring, so I was not missing any flying opportunities while being at University.

Which brings me to my second penny worth. Seniority is just about the only thing that matters once you are hired. If an Airline career is what you decide you want... get on ASAP. Do not wait because once the wave of hiring is over, you may wait a long time for another chance.

As the russian controller in Edmonton Centre always says....Good Luck!

[Fingersmac]

tonic please:

where are you from in canada?

if you're from quebec or ontario you could apply to one of the government subsidized flight training programs like CEGEP Chicoutimi (www.cegep-chicoutimi.qc.ca/), Confederation College (www.confederationc.on.ca) or Sault College (www.saultc.on.ca)

those three programs make learning to fly some what affordable. i'm attending Confederation College's flight training program and i pay about $8500 total for the program (which includes the college diploma, CPL, PPL and float endorsement).
just some food for thought.

[Tonic Please]

Thank you so much people. Your advices are very much appreciated and are actively going around my brain day in day out. I am not from Canada, I am from SW London UK. So unfortunately those courses are unantainable for me, I would assume?

Of course, the money I earn is in pounds and thats just over 2 bucks per pound, so its quite nice for me, at least :)

Again, words are being taken onboard. Thanks all.

Anybody around Moncton area? Perhaps be there this Sunday for 13 days or at some point within 8 weeks. Would be a delight to meet up with somebody/a few, for a few drinks with the better half :)

Dan.

[SBfour]

Tonic Please,
Why don't you do a cadet sponsored program with Cathay, BA or Monarch?
Or join a UAS while at Uni in the UK. The RAF is where I would have gone given the chance.
Alternatively, do the degree as a hobby when you are sitting on your fat wallet as a BA Captain on 777. You could even study at your summer homes on either coast of Canada. A buddy of mine just did an MBA during his days off.
I joined the Canadian Military out of school and wouldn't trade any of my experiences for a degree. Had I gone to school, I would have gotten stuck in a pilot backlog and missed years of career progression. I have been plugging away at a degree for several years but have no real reason for getting one.
Go out to the Moncton Flight College when in Moncton. The guys running the place went civilian flying when I joined the military. They have had very good careers as well. I'm not certain that they finished a degree.
Good Luck with the big decision.

[Fingersmac]

sorry tonic please... those programs are only open to ontario or quebec residents.

[Tonic Please]

Assuming I had the money to do the courses required, and having read so much negativity about low time jobs..Is it truly that bad, or are the posters who type such things just the unfortunate ones who would rather sit around on PPRUNE being negative as they haven't had much luck and have given up?

:hmm: :suspect:

If I come out of Moncton flight school (as I might be moving there at some point for various reasons), with 250h, CPL multi and IFR..And I go for jobs absolutely everywhere, (well, what kind of places?), am I really destined to be completely unsuccessful? I find it hard to believe that every single flying job is taken, none exist so go away.

Dan.

[cplpilot]

IT IS that bad and maybe even worse...:uhoh:
with 250TT you will have to do:
- instructor rating (8000$) and look for a spot where you will make 12-18K$/year
- go in europe (conversion is around 20K$)
- sit at home and hope
-work in the ramp/dock + in a resturant to support yourself for 1-2 years

Once you get a flying job you will make very low money for a while and probably change company/city 2-3 times (at least).
After all this (if AC is still around) you are on the way up in your career!!!:ok:

[Tonic Please]

....so, considering I have 100h on a Canadian PPL, and I am only 21, and with a high level of French alrerady, perhaps 1 year of immersion and solid at least 12hours a day study on French, I'll be good enough (I think) to enrol on the Interpretation MA Course at Ontario Uni, do the ONE YEAR course..come out with more jobs than people, and excellent pay, afford flying as an expensive hobby and build up over a period of a few years.. Have a stable and comfortable lifestyle, and still work on CPL, Multi IFR etc..Then I'll not need to go through all the ****e as most do not having that secondary thing.

I'm quite sure I have made up my mind. And am quite sure that leaving the "dive head-first into it all" attitude towards flying on the back-burner, so to speak, is not going to severely jeapordise my flying career very much at all.

Merci tout le monde!