SIA jobs

[CaptSensible]

Big ad in Flight this week from SIA.
I appear to qualify.

Given the problems where I work at present the option of SIA is more than attractive.

A340/B777 LHS, S$9,000 per month after training. S$30 per hour flight pay, S$26 transport allowance per round trip, Market adjustment allowance (what's that?) S$600 per month, Housing allowance up to S$3,500 per month (can I live out of Singapore and claim this?), Expat allowance up to S$1,000 per month, 13th months salary, plus share in bonus. Better weather too.

All in all not bad by the sound of it. Would reckon to take home S$17,500 in an average month...which is near double what I make now!!

Where's the catch?

Gladiator etc...I'd like to hear your comments...but please, no need for outrage, just give me some logic.

[CaptChaos]

CaptSenible could you please e-mail me (or reply on this post) the details of the add and address/e-mail/fax to apply because I missed that issue of flight and they no longer have the add on their web page.
Thanx and best of luck.
Chaos

[Tosh26]

CaptSensible

Not seen the ad myself but one or two observations:

A340 basic used to be $8125 after training (just over $5000 while ground training) and B777 somewhat behind this figure – now rationalised to $9000 for both. For simplicity consider the A340, which attracted a Provident Fund payment for employees, of 10% of $8125, or $812.5, total $8937.5. As you do not mention this fund as an advertised benefit in the new “improved” package, there appears to have only been a pay raise of $62.5 per month when comparing the two packages.

In Flight Allowance (IFA) used to be $31/hr for the B744 and A340, lower for the B777. It’s now $30/hr, so those boys are really making progress.

Transport Allowance per round trip used to be $24.10 (taxable). If you lived in the west where most of the schools are, round trip taxi cost to Changi is approximately $41.00. If you live in the Bayshore area, $26.00 may just do it but not after tax! The new rate seems to fall seriously short of addressing these realities.

Market adjustment allowance used to be $500 so an improvement here.

Housing Rental Assistance. Used to be reimbursment of basic rental cost in Singapore (nowhere else) of 80% of the rental sum up to a maximum of $3200. This sum now up to $3500 per month. So to get this benefit (taxable) your rental would be $4375. 80% of this sum is $3500.

Expatriation allowance used to be $1025 (married), now $1000.

Fixed Annual Wage Supplement. The 13th month salary, based on the basic figure – in this case $9000 – no other allowances are included. You may be interested in the following wording from the last Collective Agreement “This payment may however be reduced in exceptional circumstances. The amount to be reduced shall be negotiated between the Company and the Association”. Those of us who signed a “contract” not so long ago, with an agreed 6% per annum increment increase on the basic rate, saw this figure nearly halved in “negotiation” with no return to the original, despite return to normal economic conditions and record profits for the airline.

You may like to look at the numerous SIA threads which have recently appeared on Pprune.

May I ask you to post your calculation of $17,500 per month and I will be very pleased to comment.

Regards

[7times7]

PPA 777/744/340 same. all 41 sin doll.

[Haulin' Trash]

Beware housing expenses in Singapore. S$4500 per month won't get you a decent place. Try S$6500-S$8500 minimum.

[CaptSensible]

Tosh, thanks for those views. My calculations went as follows...(all Sing Dollars)

Basic salary...........$9,000
Flt Pay ($41/hr).......$1,700 (500hrs/yr??)
Meal All...............$1,600
Transport All..........$--100
'Market Adjust'(?).....$--600
Expat Allowance........$1,000 (if married)
House Rental All.......$3,480

Total..............$17,480pm

I have not included the 'bonus' or '13th month'.
I have no idea what the tax cut is but I think it's around 15%, is that right?

I'd live in Malaysia rather than Singapore, if thats allowed. Tosh maybe you can advise whether that's possible, and would the housing allowance still be paid?

If you take the above figure and convert it to Euros it comes out at 11,187 euros at todays rate.

There is no mention of EPF in the ad, and I understand it's no longer required under Singapore law.

Tosh, can you tell me what routes the A340 flys?

CaptChaos, the current issue of Flight (Paris Airshow special) has the details on the back page, but you can get th application form from the local SIA office, or email: [email protected]

[Tosh26]

CaptSensible

Basic salary...........$9,000
Flt Pay ($41/hr).......$2,560 (750hrs/yr)
Meal All...............$1,600
Transport All..........$--140
'Market Adjust'(?).....$--600
Expat Allowance........$1,000 (if married)
House Rental All.......$-875 (If you take a place for $4375 to get the max housing allowance of $3500 you will end up having this amount deducted from monthly salary)
Total for month…….$14025

Your Tax Bill would be something around $36,000 ($3,000 per month) so your net monthly would be approx £11,025, which = Euro7050, Usd 6057.

You would have the extra month’s $9,000 plus whatever bonus is on offer (work on about 3.5-4 months bonus).

Cannot live in Malaysia and get housing allowance.

Yes it looks like they have quietly dropped the Provident Fund.

A340 currently fly YVR/SFO via ICN plus ATH/FCO/CPH in Europe – but losing these to B777 soon. Various regional destinations that do not really make any money.

Good luck

[EasyGo-Lucky?]

Housing allowance only paid for Singapore rentals. This allowance is not paid to you but directly to the landlord. You then pay the additional rental seperately. The only thing exempt tax are the meal allowances, everything else the Government takes its cut including staff travel. Work on about 20-25% tax sometime more, no pension, and slowly but surely deterioting conditions of service. The service increment is a case in point.

The grass is not always greener.

[CaptSensible]

The grass here is turning a deep colour of brown very quickly.

[411A]

CaptSensible--
I worked at SIA twenty years ago when the salaries were much lower. But then, so were prices. One thing that has clearly not changed is the propensity of the Singapore government to tax anything that moves.
If I had to do it over again, I still would have joined SIA as I found the flying quite enjoyable and the other crew members (F/O's, F/E's) easy to work with. After looking at my bankbook however, decided to move on to a tax-free position elsewhere.

[TE RANGI]

And I suppose the Training Bond/Bank guarantee remains a prerequisite.

Do they get many applications?

[This message has been edited by TE RANGI (edited 16 June 2001).]

[Tosh26]

Te Rangi

Sure do - S$350,000 bond/S$45,000 bank gurantee. The latter you up-front into a Singapore bank on minimal interest for five years and also pay the bank S$1000-1500 per annum for the effort of providing the bg.

Not sure whether they are getting too many eccentric millionaires to apply at present!

[locgreen]

A340's fly to following destinations:

Europe: Athens, Rome, Copenhagen
N.America: SFO, Vancouver
Australia/NZ: Perth, Adelaide, Christchurch
Asia: Beijing, Bangkok, Jakarta, Bali, KL, Seoul, Manila, Dhaka, Lahore, Karachi
Middle East: Jeddah

Some of the destinations above will eventually be passed on to the 777. However, for the present, owing to shortage of crew, and ETOPS issues, most destinations will remain for a while. The future however, rests undeniably with the 777.

As for the misinformation rampant in this forum, may i offer some facts:

1. IFA for 777/340/744 is now S$41 per scheduled hour, an increase from S$31 previously. Penalty payments of 1.5 times apply for scheduled hours between 70 and 85 hours, and 4 times for hours above 85, in a calender month.

2. Profit sharing bonus is significant. This year is exceptionally astronomical at 6.04 months bonus (maybe more when the dust settles), but plan on 3-4 months. This is of course over and above the "13th month" compulsory bonus. The latter is rarely altered as in recessions/economic downturns.

3. S$4500 will fetch you a decent 3 bedroom condo at a nice locality (eg. Tg Rhu) facing the sea, or with city views. The property market is soft for now, and rents are proportionately lower.

4. You may want to factor in the cost of a car, which is almost prohibitively expensive if you haven't acquired the very high threshold of pain most locals are accustomed to. A new 1.6 litre Japanese car will set you back at least S$80,000. Secondhand cars range from S$15,000 upwards.

Taxis are relatively cheap. Plan on spending S$400-500 pm for transportation needs if not buying a car.

5. Working conditions are a mixed bag. While the long drawn out spat with management over the Collective Agreement has ended, bad feelings remain. However, a new management team is slowly taking over, and has begun taking proactive steps in improving some aspects of what affects us. For example, expats are now being incuded in invitations to management positions, and their input on various issues such as ops/safety etc is increasingly being included.

On the operational side, you fly hassle free to reasonably nice destinations with reasonably nice crew, and slip at resonably nice hotels. What more can i say?

6. Tax on first S$150,000 is S$23,775, and on next S$50,000 is at 23%. For S$200,000 is S$35,275. This is for the present. From next year, tax is being lowered by 3-5%. Expats are taxed on pretty much everything, except meal allowances.

7. Plan on a service increment of 3-5%. 4% is a nice number to work on, although sadly, a miserable pittance. However, one could do worse...

Hope i have answered some of your queries.

[This message has been edited by locgreen (edited 16 June 2001).]

[This message has been edited by locgreen (edited 16 June 2001).]

[fullforward]

What if the fellow be fired or fails on a checkride,does he get the money back right away?

[CaptSensible]

Locgreen thanks for the further info.

On the subject of that bond...if already A320/1 rated and current would they still expect me to bond for the full A340 conversion cost? All that's needed (as far as I'm told) is a short 'differences course'. Do they insist you do the full conversion and pay for it through bonding? If so, what about the chance of the B747 instead? I'd at least get a new rating for my money. I have previous 747 classic time.

[EasyGo-Lucky?]

You can state a preference for an aircraft but in the end the Company will decide which fleet you are attached to. An A320 rating does not equate to an A340 rating in SIA so expect to be bonded and cough up a bank guarantee. Despite your B747 Classic time, again a bond and bank guarantee would be required for the B747-400. NOTE: Without a type rating the B747-400 is only available on Local Terms and not Expat Terms. A340/B777/A310 available on Local or Expat Terms.

If you are presently on the A320 I would think the Company would most likely point you towards the A310. Not logical I know, but logical in their eyes to obtain SIA widebody and regional experience.

Good Luck.



[This message has been edited by EasyGo-Lucky? (edited 16 June 2001).]

[fullforward]

What is the failure rate after, say, one year and what happen to the bond money in such a case?

[7times7]

you might be lucky!

heard some A320 drivers went direct to B777. I guess they have to size up your grey matter too, besides your hours and "experience".

Imagine if you are the employer. Just a thought.

[Erik the Viking]

How is a normal rotation?

[Zandor]

Can someone tell me the differences between local terms and expat terms?
How many days off do you have flying a triple seven or a 744?
Thanks

[locgreen]

CaptSensible,

Bonding is a way of life here. Do not expect to not be bonded, unless you are type rated on our fleet. Even then you can expect a bond foisted on you at some point down the road when you are "upgraded" to a different fleet. I suppose the latter is fair dinkum from the employer's point of view.

If chosen for the A340 with past A320/321 exp, you will still be required to go through the full conversion course. There are many ex-320 capts flying the 340 here having done precisely that. Depending on your experience level, higher experience levels will be offered 340 or 777, while low exp levels will be offered 310. However, 320/321 capts can expect 340 or 777. Non-747-400 type rated capts will not be offered the 747 on expat terms, and accepting 747 on local terms is not advisable. Accepting local terms is not a viable option for expats...no expat allowance, housing assistance, children's education assistance, and more than likely no Provident Fund either.

The major shortage is on the 777 with rumours that some spanking new 777's might be parked in the desert for a while, due to the same. There is considerable movement happening from the 340/310 to 747, the rationale being that newcomers fill slots on 310/340/777, while incumbents are rewarded with a move to the 747 aka "Mother Fleet" where all the moolah is.

Failure rate is low once you are past their initial assessment. I guess the initial sim ride sorts out the undesirables. I assume you will be refunded your bank guarantee if you fail a check ride in the initial stages. I don't know about later. However, if you are fired for disciplinary reasons, you may deservedly kiss your money goodbye.

Min 2 Days off each rostered week where possible depending upon COP, and accrued days off given upon return from COP. As per Collective Agreement, you get 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 days off for 6,7,8-10,11-13,14-15,16-18,19-20 consecutive days away respectively, from base.

A little note i'd like to add is that all 340's were planned to be disposed off by 2003. The situation, however, is dynamic, and some 340-300's may be retained, and together with the 340-500's expected in march 2003, may form a tidy little fleet.

The biggest fleet will eventually be the 777, and they will have a nice mix of long, medium, short, and very short routes. The type mix will be 777-200, -300, -200ER.



[This message has been edited by locgreen (edited 17 June 2001).]

[Farside]

Locgreen thank you for the information you provide which is accurate and unbiased. Singapore is most probably not everybody’s paradise but it is a very livable place with good accommodation and schooling. There are a lot of open ended problems with management that hopefully will be looked into in the future, but one thing is certain, you never have to worry that your paycheck is not in at the 21st of the month. SIA is not a "firing" airline and once you passed your initial training, the base checks are a complete non event and if anybody is unable to this standard he has a problem. But it is like anything else, what appeals to you might be a nightmare for me, so at the end of the day it is you yourself who makes it here or can't wait to bolt!!

[Tosh26]

Locgreen

You mention misinformation rampant in this forum. May I ask you to which information you refer?

[747400CA]

For Easy, LocGreen, Insider, Farside, and other SIA incumbents -

Are all components of traditional 'expat' terms still being offered to current / qualified 744 captains? Layover talk suggests that the full package is now only available for 777 positions - comment?

As an alternative, may an interested 744 captain forgo a SIN base in favor of a SIA Mauritius position in LHR / LAX / SYD? If so, at what point might a candidate express a preference for a specific domicile without being regards askance?

Lastly, are there differences other than compensation (such as rostering, flight / duty limits, and vacation / leave practices) associated with the SIA Mauritius positions vice SIA 'expat' terms in SIN?

Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge and considered opinions.

[fullforward]

It is not perfect, but it seems to be a decent job.
I'll go try to find someone who could lend me the bond money...Any ideas?

Thanks you all folks for the unbiased information.

[locgreen]

Tosh26...the misinformation i allude to is that perpetuated by the likes of Titan, Gladiator, et al, with regards to SIA. They have allowed their emotions get the better of them, and have often spun fiction for my reading pleasure. I suppose they have their reasons, but my point is that their views are not truly representative of what goes on here.

747400CA...the expat package offered for SIN based expats is the same for all fleets, with
the stated differences in basic salary, and flying allowance, depending upon fleet. The expat allowance, housing allowance, children's education alowance, etc remains the same. The subtle diff between earlier expat packages and now is that they have quietly removed their contribution to SIA Provident Fund for newcomers, which was 10% of basic salary. If it is of any consolation, that money invested with a local bank here has been giving poor returns over many years, and many have yet to make back their principal.

You can opt for SIA (Mauritius) for basing in LHR/LAX/SYD provided you have right of abode there. I must admit my knowledge vis-a-vis overseas bases is inadequate. You may need to look carefully at the tax issues involved. Tax will be your responsibility, and not SIA's. The terms and conditions are different for overseas based crew. They fly to AOC limits (not governed by Collective Agreement which is more restrictive);, operate 6 month block rosters as opposed to the haphazard 6 week rosters for SIN based crew; are not part of the pilot's union (ALPA-S); but over all, i'm told, lead a fairly cushy life. The salary structure is definitely worse off as you don't get expat allowance, housing allowance, and education allowance, and you have to pay higher taxes compared to singapore.

I'm afraid that is all i can contribute to the topic of overseas bases.

[Morse Code]

All you guys , thanks for the information.Can somebody please tell me if there are decent schools offering the english curriculum and how expensive are they!
Also, the deal on leave passages and id 90's
Thanks...

MC

[Gladiator]

locgreen:

To the eyes of a Singaporean (brain washed under the iron fist of Lee Kuan Yew) any opposition is misinformation.

The truth will speak for itself. All the pilots interested in SIA jobs will one day come back and tell it the way it is. I am patient, time will tell.

You can run but you can't hide.

[747400CA]

Thank you LocGreen for your assistance.

Sxx month rosters and a 'cushy' schedule sounds intriguing - can any captains employed through SIA Mauritius (or those SIN-based with acquaintences there) speak to the specifics of LHR/LAX/SYD flying?

Thanks again to all.

[TE RANGI]

Tosh26,

Thanks a lot for your precise and useful information.

I have visited SIN several times and liked very much its orderliness, cleanliness and efficiency, but then I recognize you may look at it in a different way if you're a resident.

In any case, even if SIA would consider me, with the kind of money they offer and the high cost of living in Singapore, plus bank guarantee interests/expenses and having at the same time to send the money for mortgage payments back home might be an impossible situation for me.

Maybe you guys have the financial soundness to go for it, but I think I'll wait for their next round of ads.

[Tosh26]

Te Rangi

Thanks for the note. Yes a lot of people who either phone me or I see down route feel exactly the same way you do.

Most seem to be keeping their powder dry and not making application, as they sense that SIA could have major recruiting problems soon and will be faced with the stark choice of either upping the package significantly towards the end of the year, rather than fiddling around the edges thinking people won’t notice - or keeping to their “new improved” package just imposed and parking increasing numbers of B777’s down in Arizona.

I think its called market forces – so beloved here!

[CaptSensible]

Thanks Tosh and all the rest who've commented. And given the bonding situation explained by locgreen I think I agree with Te Rangi's remarks. I'll hold fire while I still have some kind of a job here.

[In the slot]

At last we seem to be having an accurate and informed exchange of information. If working elsewhere, I would hold back a few months when packages are sure to improve as the crewing situation worsens......

Regards and good luck to all.

[locgreen]

Perhaps some of you may not be aware of the significance of the Market Adjustment Allowance (MAA), that forms part of the salary package. Presently at S$600, subject to a minimum of S$500, it was instituted by management as a means to speedily respond to changes in market conditions (although i think they wanted to avoid paying increments or bonuses on that component). Management theoretically has the authority to increase the MAA to any amount it considers reasonable, in order to aid it's recruitment process. On the flip side, they can also remove the increase in MAA subject to the minimum of S$500. My point is, it is more likely that at some point in the future, IF their recruitment drive does not succeed based on the new salary package, management will most likely increase the MAA, and that will be applicable to all, incumbents and newcomers. Therefore, waiting for a better package may either be fruitless (if they don't offer a better package), or pointless (since any increase will be applicable to all).

I do wonder why i don't discourage you guys from applying here. The longer you don't, the better it is for us here...the pressure builds up for an MAA increase...

On the subject of ID travel...SIA's staff ID is undeniably the worst in the industry. Fares are excessive (Staff Travel always makes a significant profit), upgrades are subject to the mercy of ground staff who don't think much of pilots, and are loath to give us our due.

Children's education....plenty of International Schools...UWC, OFS, Australian, American, Dover Ct., etc. Fees are high, to the tune of roughly S$1500-2000 per month per child, and often there is a high deposit involved. But SIA reimburses the first S$700, and 50% of the balance.

[CaptSensible]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Therefore, waiting for a better package may either be fruitless (if they don't offer a better package), or pointless (since any increase will be applicable to all). </font>

Locgreen I understand the first part of that sentence, but why would I have a problem with the increase being applicable to all? In fact, I'd expect it to be so. Only fair isn't it?

[Insider107]

locgreen

I noticed both your postings of 16/17 June 2001 in respect of SIA jobs and the generally very high standard of accuracy contained.

May I point out, however, that you appear to be in danger of falling into the very trap of emotionalism you ascribe to others, by singling out, in particular, Titan and Gladiator, when you write:

“the misinformation I allude to is that perpetuated by the likes of Titan, Gladiator, et al, with regards to SIA. They have allowed their emotions get the better of them (sic), and have often spun fiction for my reading pleasure. etc”

Whilst both these contributors make no secret of their being ex-SIA members and hence unable to report contemporary events with the accuracy which we can bring to bear, their reporting of past SQ events display all the hallmarks of factual accuracy, cataloguing SQ mendacity and rough shod treatment meted to employees, in the gallop to corporate profit.

You may also care to reflect that, before your posting of 17 June, containing the above quotation, neither contributor had made any offering on this thread and so could hardly be accused of “spinning fiction” during the debate.

Further, it will be of interest to you to know that the move towards and eventual embracing of “augmented” rostering, replacing the long standing, risky “three man” fudge, was instigated by Gladiator in his counter-suit, following SQ’s vindictive and illogical pursuit of his remaining bond. He and his lawyers were required to deal merely in cold, hard fact, with not the suspicion of fiction (see archives – Gladiator). SQ’s own fiction and emotionalism forced it to back down, ceding victory to Gladiator and the corollary of CAAS withdrawal of its own, irresponsible “approval” of a reckless crewing tradition.

If you feel that my observation errs, perhaps I could ask you to provide examples of “spun fiction” attributable to both longstanding “ppruners”.

Meanwhile, please keep up the good work - your postings are very readable.

Best regards

[jetwash]

When people fear government it is tyranny, when the government fears people it is liberty.

[whalecapt]

locgreen,

"...SIA's staff ID is undeniably the worst in the industry. Fares are excessive (Staff Travel always makes a significant profit), upgrades are subject to the mercy of ground staff who don't think much of pilots, and are loath to give us our due."??

Your opinion would be more credible if your claim was accurate, or is it you consider any fare in excess of zero to be excessive? Ask AirNZ staff about excessive fares that are derived I believe, as a function of the full economy tag. Don't ask about upgrades though - they've never heard the word!

[In the slot]

Our staff travel is a disgrace. The department is a profitable entity to the company and could NEVER be considered as "welfare."
The current edition of the STAR ALLIANCE magazine has a listing of all the reciprocal staff travel arrangements between the member airlines. I do not see SQ anywhere!!!!!
Question to all SQ staff; if you have paid for an SQ id90 and you're sitting next to a Lufthansa captain who has bought an LH staff ticket at their good prices how would you feel, as he is elligible to travel FRA-SIN on an SQ aircraft as the flight number is LH as well as SQ!! Comments????

[Morse Code]

LOCGREEN,
Thanks for that useful information........Just one more aahh a couple of more questions, however bad the staff trvel maybe is it unlimited number of id 90's or is there a restriction?
Has there recently been a hike in the basic salary at SIA?
Do they offer retirement /Provident Fund benefits to new hires anymore?

[locgreen]

Insider107...thank you for your comments. Upon reflection, it appears it was not appropriate for me to have mentioned Titan or Gladiator in this specific thread, since they had said nothing previous to my post. In response to your post though, I must add that in following prune since it's inception during the days of email notifications, i have watched Titan and Gladiator hijack many threads relevant to SIA, and turned it into a crusade for democracy in Singapore. I have no desire to argue the merits or demerits of their case. As i mentioned in my first post, i'm sure they have their reasons. My point once again is...we are pilots, and when other pilots in this forum ask for information regarding working conditions, those of us able to, should give an unbiased opinion. If the same pilots asked me to comment on the social/political situation here, to me as a pilot, my comments would be my personal opinion, and may be far removed from the general perception of locals or expats, and as a pilot, not relevent to this forum (unless of course SIA whips it's pilots for carryig excess fuel :) under the express orders of LKY). On that note, i must emphasise that SIA does play dirty tricks with contracts/collective agreements/bonds etc., but that is a whole new topic, and covered extensively in other threads in this forum, and i might add, largely due contributions from Titan and Gladiator, and many others. With this, my references to these two gentlemen in this thread is closed.

Whalecapt...it is conceivable that other airlines have a worse staff travel than ours, and my condolences, but the fact remains, SIA staff fares are at least 20-30% more than what sould be, for an airline of this standing, and with our mega profits, not to mention the absence of STAR Alliance travel benefits. The latter however, might change in the near future.

Morse Code...1 free ticket, 4 ID90 tickets, and unlimited ID75 tickets until year 5 followed by unlimited ID85 tickets until year 10, and unlimited ID90 tickets beyond year 10, per year, for self, spouse, and eligible dependents. No CPF or SIA PF paid to newcomers. Yes, there has been a salary increase...incumbents have a basic salary increase of S$1000, MAA increase of S$100, IFA increase of S$10 per hour; newcomers are on a new basic starting salary of S$10,000, S$9000, S$9000, and S$8200 for 744/340/777/310 as compared to the old starting salary of S$8500, S$8125, S$????, and S$7100.

[Insider107]

locgreen

Thank you for the reply.

I confirm that I am not being pedantic but merely emphasising a very important feature of the pprune bulletin board, when I again draw your attention to your writing of 17 June 2001:

"I suppose they have their reasons, but my point is that their views are not truly representative of what goes on here".

Well if I may say so, your statement is not fact but is merely you own view on a particular subject, which, of course, you are at perfect liberty to air. Do you have data to process into factual information supporting your view that Titan and Gladiators' views are not truly representative?

It is a slippery slope we tread when, even unconciously, view (opinion) is stated as fact, ie:

"I'm told (the SIA Mauritius pilots) lead a fairly cushy life".

Who says so and on what processed data basis, especially as they, to use your words, "work to AOC limits"?

And as a variant, using a fact to support an implicit view:

"S$4500 will fetch you a decent 3 bedroom condo at a nice locality (eg. Tg Rhu) facing the sea, or with city views"

Your implied view being that the SIA housing allowance is adequate and that this style should be OK for everyone in SIA, unmindful of unsuitability for young children accustomed to a less constrained life style, or parents wishing to spare their progeny long periods of school bussing from the east to the west of the island. I think another contributor's assessment of house with garden rentals of S$7-8000 pm in a style suitable for young children is probably close to the mark. The rental is fact, the style is my view.

Far be it from me to imply criticism - I fall into the above trap myself but manage to extricate myself by careful re-reading and critical edits.

Finally, yes I think you are absolutely correct about MAA - this will be the prefered tool to up the ante.
Yes dirty tricks are a way of life in SQ flight ops division, which is why no one trusts them and automatically assume they are lying - great management triumph hey?
Yes, SQ staff travel is pathetic.

Kind regards

[Easygoing]

Gentlemen

I have been reading the information provided by all of you. Thank you all.

I too have an interest in SIA. Does anyone know if an endorsement "expires"
I have the A340 both on my ticket but haven't flown it for 2 years. I am currently flying the A320.

How would SIA view this situation if I did show up with a current PPC on the A340?

Thanks in advance

[Morse Code]

Loc green.......thanks a heap for that very useful information. One more question. During initial training is one paid the whole salary minus of course the flying bounty?
Also can you tell me a little about the interview process...Thanks in advance.
My email [email protected]

[CaptChaos]

Thanks guys for all the great gen. Any chance someone can pass on the e-mail for recruiting at Sin or a telephone number.
Thanks again
Chaos

[L1011]

Heard that the Brisbane 777 base is crewed and ready to go.

Anyone able to confirm this? How many crews, were they type rated? If so, where did they come from?

[Easygoing]

Just referencing my earlier query.

Does anyone know if Singapore Airlines considers you rated or non-rated if you haven't flown the aircraft for 2 years. I have 1200hrs in command on the aircraft but have not flown it in 2 years.

My concern is the bond in particular

Cheers!

[Morse Code]

Chaos..... See www.singaporeair.com (http://www.singaporeair.com) and go to recruitment. It'll take a little trying to locate recruitment, but there is all the information you need. best of luck
Morse Code

[Goofyfoot]

Easygoing,if you designed the particular type,was test pilot with 20000hrs,on type,you will still be bonded and you will still have to produce the money for the bank guarantee.

[a4o007]

Captchaos + Easygoing

Why do you two want to leave us.
Easygoing you are hopping around from job to job to much!

[Easygoing]

a4o007

I suspect you have mistaken me for someone else. If you hvae a good position that would interest me where you are I am always interested in an opportunity!
All the best!

Cheers!

[CaptChaos]

Morse thanks for the website, however I've looked at that not too long ago and it mentioned nothing about A340. Just B777 and B747, in fact I believe they were asking 500 or 1000 on type. Anyway I'll give it a try again. Does anyone know telephone numbers for recruiting and if they actually accept phone call enquiries?

A4o007 Thanks for your kind interest but I am very much worried about the future. In all honesty our Airline could be the best in world if only it was run commercially. I want to avoid going in details on this forum but I'm sure you know what I mean.

[a4o007]

Captchaos, yes I have to agree with you on that. I am concerned that a lot want to leave, but as you know it is difficult to try and change things here.
Easygoing, you left us and came back again, or am I mistaken again?.

[Easygoing]

a4o007

I haven't worked with you before actually. I am pretty much on the other side of thed world. You sound as if you are a management type, so in defference to the fellow you are thinking of it is not he to whom you speak. My career takes place on the other side of the world. I did have an inaw who flew the VC10 for you once a long time ago though.

Cheers, Hope all workds out.

[Tosh26]

Morse Code

During initial training on type I was paid the princely sum of S$5850 basic salary plus S$1025 expatriation allowance – total S$6875 or USD3800 per month. This payment was made over a four-month training period, following which, from the fifth month onwards, I was paid the basic “checked out” salary of S$8125 plus the allowances associated with line flying. I also received a salary adjustment of S$3020.71 in this fifth month, to reflect a slightly higher salary than basic during my brief line training

In “recognition” of this extremely modest start, SIA makes an interest free loan of S$6000 payable over the first year, to tide individuals over this very lean time – rather than pay a liveable salary from the begining.

It has taken me well over two and a half years to recover from this start plus the bank guarantee/accommodation rental/school fee/power supply/telephone deposits etc, which you have been hearing of.

I have very often wondered why I even bothered.

Good luck!

[nomoneynofly]

Tosh, in comparison, a 5-year Air Mauritius A340 captain gets the 3800US you mentioned. Except he gets it as a fully-qualified captain after 5 years!!! He also gets a housing allowance of less than 500US, thus totalling less than 4300US.

Have fun!

nmnf

[Tosh26]

nomoneynofly

Presumably they have big problems recruiting?

Good luck

[John Barnes]

The problem with the salary structure in SQ is that the starting salaries are still too low. However if you have had around ten years in the company with one or two aircraft changes and the yearly 6% increase which was up till 2 years ago the policy you look at a total different package. Some of the "older" expats here have nothing to complain about, other then that they work there bollocks off. Just ask a few of them what their taxable income was last year and you might be in for a little surprise!!!

[nomoneynofly]

Tosh, no problems at all in recruiting!!! Just witness the 1000+ applications in reply to the last Air M advert in Flight! The advert did neglect to specify any minimum requirements (presumably even a PPL would qualify you for an A340 captain position!) and also did not divulge the salary. (To be fair, the company had not figured that one out yet!)

So loads of people came and enjoyed a free 3 or 4-day tropical holiday in a beach hotel courtesy of Air M. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif Somewhat like timeshare selling, all they had to do was sit through a pesky 30min presentation in a dingy flight ops building. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

The problem came when all the successful applicants were notified of their achievement; suddenly no-one was interested... http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

So anybody tired of the rat race and yearning for a break? Interviews (again) tomorrow!!!

Have fun!

nmnf

[Tosh26]

locgreen

Re: your posting of 21 June 2001 in which you mention with remarkable prescience “I must emphasise that SIA does play dirty tricks with contracts/collective agreements/bonds etc”.

Despite us being in the middle of a “healing process” (see OSIG minutes) with the flt ops management, following years (literally) of bruising negotiation over the last, finally settled, Collective Agreement (CA), despite the imminent Safety Attitude Survey Briefing Session to take place on 11 July 2001, to be presented by Professor R. Helmreich of University of Texas and despite a new Crew Resource Management Programme being developed (not before time) by contracted consultants, Dédale, all of which moves are designed to greatly strengthen the Flight Safety stance of the airline, we are about to, yet again, lock horns with an obdurate management, this time over bonus payments.

Does this management not understand that the very bedrock of Flight Safety is harmonious relations between itself and the flight crews that it absolutely relies upon to get the job done properly plus the engineers who guarantee the aircraft integrity and that the permanent friction of “constant revolution” is injurious to such Flight Safety aspirations? And does it further not understand the negative effect such new friction will have on its recruiting drive for desperately needed pilots?

From the latest ALPA-S Newsflash:

Quote: “This is to inform you that the Company has unilaterally decided that the bonus due to employees based for FY 00/01 amounts to 4.45 months and as such will make payment of 3.54 months on 7 July 2001. The remaining 1 month will be payable on 7 December 2001.

The Company has also unilaterally decided and announced by the CEO, that an ex-gratia payment of 1.5 months will be paid in respect of profits received from the IPO of SATS and SIAEC, subject to the agreement of the Unions.

ALPA-S is of the view that the computation for bonus is only based on the declared “Group Profit After Tax less Minority Interest” as provided for in the SIPS Agreement”. Unquote.

For all SIA pilots and outsiders who do not realise the implication of this move, in a period of, to quote locgreen again, “mega profits”, it is that in time honoured form, following a standard and tired old formula straight from the Boys’ Own Book of Harvard Business School Management circa 1950, the management has formed the opinion that the employees are “getting too much” (some would argue achieving a living salary), despite the agreements governing bonus payments being long-standing, percentage based and to mutual satisfaction. It has now set itself the task of “entering the real world”, lopping bonus payments by stealth and precedent, hoping that the pilots in particular will be split as usual. The mechanism is:

Bonus Payment Calculation using SIPS Agreement – 6.04 months basic salary.

New Proposal – 4.54 months basic salary + 1.5 months “ex-gratia” (and very much one off for this FY only) = 6.04 months basic salary.

Hence next year, the “new improved” formula will be used on a precedence basis and so, if the pilots accept this present nonsense, future bonus payment will be subject to a significant southward movement!

To quote ALPA-S further:

Quote: “As there is a dispute with regards to the ex-gratia payment, such payment is being withheld until further notice. Meanwhile, conciliation efforts with the Ministry of Manpower have begun and are ongoing between the Company, the Minister and all the Unions”. Unquote.

Will SIA pilots, just for once, give ALPA-S their unanimous support in its efforts on their behalves?


[This message has been edited by Tosh26 (edited 29 June 2001).]

[burnoff]

Tosh26,
Just a little correction to your post :

Bonus due to employees should be 6.26 months according to the agreed profit sharing agreement.

As for the management announced bonus payment, it will total 6.04 months. Of which 3.54 months will be paid in early July and 1.0 in early December. The other 1.5 months has suddenly achieved an "ex-gratia" status and will be paid to the employees if and when they agree to effectively waive 0.22 months of bonus.

By the way, if the management ram this through, the profit sharing agreement and all other agreement between SIA and its employees will eventually be ..... (just use your imagination and fill in the blanks).

As for the recruitment of new pilots, worry not, the bar will continued to be lowered and then some more to get enough bodies to man the flights.

As for us mere mortals, we will just have to continue to do what the management ask of us, and then some more http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif without question!

I agree with you view on crew morale and ripping apart a slowly healing wound.

[Tosh26]

burnoff

Thanks for the correction. I've rechecked my papers and you are absolutely right about the agreed bonus being 6.26 months basic salary and that we are being asked (forced?) to waive 0.22 months bonus under the arbitary and coercive proposal now suddenly presented. Sorry for the error.

Good luck - and to the rest of us!



[This message has been edited by Tosh26 (edited 29 June 2001).]

[Bearcat]

Hey sensible, does tea boy on the 747 count as time for an application?

[411A]

I see not much has changed since I departed SQ in 1980....low salaries, high standard of living (but many cannot afford same, especially with children), worked to death with little time off and vacations deferred....well the list goes on....and on.
For the retired type from a previous airline, not so bad, except for the "work to death" part.
The revolving door continues.

[fire wall]

Tosh26, it was rumoured that once the collective agreement had been sorted out and the profit sharing distributed that there was to be a number of guys set to depart to other outfits....has this happened yet and/or in your opinion is it a load of bull?

[Tosh26]

fire wall

I think we have to "watch this space" post 7 July 2001, when the first chunk of bonus is paid. I guess we'll then see if we have been hearing from men of straw or otherwise.

Regards

[767driver]

Dear Tosh,

I have been following all threads concerning SIA for a long time. It seems that some more favorable winds are blowing, so on behalf of this I decided to apply.
As far as you know how are the recruitment process going, I mean, they are interviewing a lot, are the same people in charge of this etc.
Any clues would be very wellcome.
Best regards

[Tosh26]

767 driver

I’m not too sure that a more favourable wind is blowing through the part of SIA that deals with salaries and benefits – please see recent posts on the upcoming difficulties over the 2000/1 bonus payments plus numerous previous mentions that although basic salaries have improved for new joiners, these improvements roughly equal Provident Fund (PF) contributions which SIA will continue to make for incumbents, for the time being but which will quietly not be made for new joiners – effectively the cash saved on PF contributions by SIA is being used to make salaries more attractive to pilots considering an application. So if you do come to SIA, expect an environment of constant downward pressure on your total remuneration and benefits.

A more favourable wind is, however, blowing through the flight ops department, where a much more mature attitude towards Flight Safety is in evidence. I think we are all very pleased by this turn of events.

I will try to find out more for you on how the recruiting process is going.

Best regards

[scanscanscan]

Two airlines,same management attitude towards crews contracts,fuel loads,CRM, and HR management,lots of incidents covered up, no interest in pro active flight safety,
tons of management generated stress, two fatal crashes,lots of dead.

A real new ops. interest in safety?

Give us a F.....g break, read the PCE memo and take a mid career DLR test.!!!

Cathay management..IMHO. You are well on track for all of the above.

------------------
We will do the drill according to the amendments to the amendments I er think?

[767driver]

Tosh & Scan

Thanks a lot.
It is definitely an increasing difficulty to make a savvy career decision for the time being...specially when one is on the midlle of the road, when hardly a bad decision have a second chance.

[Tosh26]

767driver

Yes a lot of people I speak with feel exactly as you do - they are also "on the middle of the road" when second chance recovery from a bad decision is difficult.
For which reason they seem to be unwilling to consider SIA and are waiting to see if things are going to improve dramatically before even considering an application.

Best regards

[767driver]

Tosh

Thanks for the reply.
The problem is things are stiffening all around, as US is slowing down.
I sincerely don't believe we'll be able to see lots of improvement in the next few years.
At least according to the trends/info I rely on...

[Anotherpost75]

A straw in the wind - heard down route that SIA now have three brand new B777's down in the desert - more joining shortly.

Can anyone provide pictures yet?

[This message has been edited by Anotherpost75 (edited 07 July 2001).]

[thegypsy]

For those contemplating joining SIA just a few titbits.
About 5 years ago all Pilots enjoyed the CPF scheme whereby 20% of basic salary was put in fund by SIA and also employees which was taxfree.
They then dropped this and you joined a PF scheme where SIA put in 10% and nothing by employee which is taxed when you withdraw from scheme when you leave. The investment record of this fund is nothing short of scandalous!
Now all new joiners are not even being offered this so although basic salary has increased by 1000 + 100 on MAA totalling 1100$ per month this has been totally negated by withdrawal of PF so the only increase is the extra $10 per hour say $8000 pa less 24% tax!!!
The recent unilateral bonus as announced by SIA should clearly indicate to all and sundry that this is a company that is totally untrustworthy. Bear this in mind at your peril!!
Also bear in mind that this could well be the last year of bonus being paid at all as no doubt SIA are getting ready to plead poverty once more with the downturn in business. Perhaps they should explain to everyone why they wasted so much money on Virgin and Air New Zealand where quite clearly they have been taken for a big ride!!

[highcirrus]

locgreen

From Straits Times 12 July 2001

Sing Dollar Slides Further

The Singapore dollar, at an 11-year low against its US counterpart, extended its losses on concern that a drop in Singapore’s exports will curb demand for the currency.
The Sing dollar fell 0.1 per cent to $1.8363 against the US dollar.
The currency dropped by as much as 0.5 per cent in the day to its weakest level since June 29, 1990.
“What we’re going to see is probably a protracted period of currency weakness with the Sing dollar probably trading up to $1.90 level,” said regional economist Daniel Lian of Morgan Stanley Dean Witter.

- Bloomberg News

In light of the above gloomy outlook, do you think that your suggestion of a “quick fix” by SIA management is now likely, using the Market Adjustment Allowance (MAA) mechanism to increase salaries and so encourage new ex-pat pilots to join SIA, despite their salaries already being whittled away before they even arrive?
Do you also think it possible that the management might also return our 6% annual increment, stolen from us during another, previous, unilaterally imposed salary pogrom, or will they continue to compound this felony with the latest arbitrarily imposed, unilateral reduction in agreed annual bonus?

[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: highcirrus ]

[Slasher]

Seems to me SQ still juggle Sing nickles and Sing dimes thinking itll attract pilots. When the salarys quoted change from "S$9000" to "US$9000" and tax free they might then get some serious applications.

[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: Slasher ]

[AlbertRoss]

L1011 asked a while back about the Brisbane base, but I didn't see a reply. Does any one have any details. Is it up and running ? How much time off at home ? Is the flying purely north/south, or will you do east/west stuff too ? would appreciate any info. :confused:

[Tosh26]

AlbertRoss

The B777 Brisbane base has been filled with type rated SIA pilots who've bailed out of Singapore, to return home to Oz.

We understand that they go to a regime of 1000 hrs per annum/100 hrs per 28 days - this deal is outside the Singapore CA! Oz tax is 48%.

As yet no one knows what the rostering people have in mind but the betting is that time at home enjoying the sun will be limited.

[locgreen]

highcirrus...An MAA revision still hinges upon the response to their recruitment efforts. While they have not been very successful for SIN base, i understand the response for overseas bases in PER and BNE has been favourable...especially with 737 upgraders. Also, the mess at Cathay has suddenly presented them with an unexpected potential source of pilots.

Notwithstanding all this, pressure mounts on them to do something significant to improve their recruitment process, and i think an MAA increase would be an obvious way out...at least to you and I. However, my optimism and feeble faith in the few objective heads at SQ management is fast fading, given their rubbish antics regarding the 'ex-gratia' bonus. By that same token, and given the rapidly deteriorating business sentiment in Singapore, i think it is unlikely that we'll see a return to the 6% days of yore vis-a-vis service increment.

Regards

[locgreen]

Tosh26...i refer to your post on June 26. I was away on leave, hence the delayed reply.

I am constantly astounded at the brazen attempts of this management bunch to constantly change the goalposts during the game. They have utter disregard for crew morale, and might i emphasise, INTEGRITY. The results from the Safety Survey released yesterday is telling, as far as morale amongst us is concerned.

I reckon this 'ex-gratia' rubbish is merely an attempt to gauge our response, whilst also setting the tone for the new SI/PS negotiations due to commence soon. They are also trying to set a precedent, for future IPO's, the largest likely to be that of SIA Cargo. It is VITAL, that all SIA Unions remain united in the face of this latest affront to our common senses. On that note, i expect the courts to rule in our favour, as we have a clearly spelt out written agreement (if that means something here), and a precedent of sorts...the disposal of our stake in Delta and Swissair a couple of years ago, and the $110 million proceeds being credited to our profits.

Regards.

[Tosh26]

locgreen

Thanks for your reply.

I wasn’t able to attend the Safety Survey briefing of 11 July 2001 but I gather that, amongst other things, moral was judged to be hovering around zero – please correct me if my debrief interpretation is wrong.

I know that one of the major contributory factors towards my own very jaundiced view of SIA has been the arbitrary and imposed loss of the 6% annual increment, which, when considering joining SIA, I had thought was part of the contract – a view I naively continued to hold until brought up sharply by the reality of a Singapore Airlines “contract”. I now automatically believe that anything the management says is a lie and that any change is designed to cheat me out of a contracted benefit – a view reinforced by the latest disgusting abrogation by “management” of the agreed annual bonus calculation terms. This wonderful state of affairs is not of my making – I came here with a positive and cooperative frame of mind – but that’s been ground away over the years.

I further understand that General Bey is now suggesting that we fly beyond our ALPA-S agreed annual hours, to allow some pilots the opportunity of annual leave this year (is this also correct?). Whilst not wishing to go into the merits or not of this proposal, the General seems to display a certain whimsy by actually suggesting this move. He has obviously not been correctly advised that the bottom of the flight crew cooperation barrel has been wiped clean some considerable time ago by “management” and that if ALPA-S were to agree to a very much “one off” short period of pilots selling leave, this “precedent” would be instantly exploited by a rapacious set of “negotiators” with a view to imposing a new, higher, annual Stakhanovite work quota. Perhaps a starting point to any discussion along the lines of a very temporary accommodation would be an unconditional and permanent reinstatement of the 6% increment, literally stolen from us.

Best regards

[ 13 July 2001: Message edited by: Tosh26 ]

[thegypsy]

Our beloved leader DFO {shortly to spending more time with his family!!} has suddenly admitted in a recent newsletter that the company feels that crews afterall would benefit from their annual leave entitlement!!! Services are having to be cut to enable the huge backlog of leave particularly on B744, a decision he said was difficult to make in view of the loss of revenue!! I bet it was as up to now Profit has always come before People in SIA.
The outstanding leave is nothing short of scandalous and the impotence of the CAAS is equally so in allowing this situation to happen due to total mismanagement of our beloved leader. The incestuous relationship between SIA and CAAS needs looking into . Perhaps in the aftermath of SQ 6 crash even the CAAS has been forced to put some kind of pressure on SIA???
Our leader goes on to say that recruitment onto the rapidly expanding B777 fleet has been somewhat disappointing. However he thinks the downturn in the economic climate will come to the rescue and Pilots who otherwise would not consider SIA now will!!
What a way to recruit Captains for a so called World Class Airline!!!
Instead of getting at the root cause of the problem which is not just about money but general conditions and most importantly the way in which Flight Operations Management behaves in a most intimidatory arrogant way with the rule of fear being the keyword hence the abysmal low morale in the Airline.
Yes 6% Service increments scrapped, Bonus payment renaged on.

Anyone considering joining SIA should assume that there will be no further Bonus Payments also No Service Increments in future. Are you sure you are still interested????

[Whiskery]

Hey Slasher,would you go back and fly for SQ if the pay was USD9,000 and tax free?
I want an honest answer !!!

[Slasher]

Whiskery, no bloodey way. Honest answer? Theyd have to cough up another US$5000 p.m. to put up with all their crap (as outlined in TheGypsys post above). Then Id look at it.

[Whiskery]

Yeah,me too.You had me worried there for a while Slash !

[highcirrus]

gypsy

Yes you are absolutely correct in your writings on the Dear Leader de Vaz suddenly appearing to grasp the current reality of flight crew leave and recruitment. However, like the manoeuvrings of his titular namesake in North Korea he doesn’t really believe what he’s saying – he’d prefer to rule by fear as usual and merely parrots stuff that will keep him in a job a little longer on a mega salary and huge annual bonus, paid to keep a lid on flight ops costs – that is our salaries and allowances – but now and again reverts to type with the odd Freudian slip, revealed in his real attitude towards recruiting for a “so-called World Class Airline”.
He similarly presides, for the present, over an industrial relations wasteland of his own construction, which like the blighted nation to the north of Seoul, will eventually require someone else to step in and sort out. The Dear Leader and his clique of cosseted overlords look down in disdain at us mere serfs, chained to him not by a DMZ but an ancient and iniquitous system of bonds and bank guarantees.
The complicit CAAS will now distance itself from the Dear Leader as it hopefully joins the ranks of mainstream, independent and transparent Authorities, post MI 185 and SQ 006.
Anyone considering emigration to North Korea – er sorry, I mean SIA – should consider things very carefully.

[jstars2]

A snippet from another thread:

BY ANGELA JAMESON of the Times

BRITISH AIRWAYS could be held to ransom by militant pilots when it begins negotiations over pay this autumn, a worldwide shortage of pilots begins to bite.
The airline could be forced to increase pilots’ pay by 10 per cent, three times the pay rises that its other employees can expect, when the current two-year pay deal runs out this September.

BA’s 3,300 pilots have seen their foreign colleagues receive pay rises of between 10 and 40 per cent in the past few days, as international airlines have moved to quell a wave of industrial action. Cathay Pacific, the Hong Kong carrier, and Iberia, the Spanish flag carrier, have both been hit by industrial action this week as their pilots have tried to exploit their strong negotiating position to win huge pay increases.

A spokesman for the British Air Line Pilots Association (Balpa) said that his members would have noted the high pay rises being achieved overseas. “It could be a very tough fight. Pilots are very much aware of their worth to the company,” the spokesman said.

Mike Powell, airlines analyst at Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein, said: “Pilots have a lot of power. They can stop an airline overnight and they can wipe out a year’s profits in weeks, especially at the moment, when passenger numbers are down.”

Industry observers believe that experienced flyers could be tempted overseas by the attractive packages being offered by foreign carriers, such as Emirates, which offers starting salaries for pilots of about £56,000 tax-free. BA co-pilots, by comparison, can expect to earn just £24,000 in their first year, according to Balpa. From that salary they must pay back a quarter of the cost of their training, during their first five years with the company.

A BA captain with 20 years’ flying experience can expect to earn a salary of about £110,000. This is supplemented by a variety of accommodation allowances and travel benefits.

In comparison an experienced pilot with Emirates can probably hope to make £100,000 a year, tax-free. The airline also offers free accommodation and cheap or free loss of licence insurance, which is considered a perk.

[penguin]

Hey guys! I know this message doesn't belong here but I can tell there are some real SQ guys around here who might be willing to help. I am looking for an old friend of mine at SQ. Can someone be kind enough to let me how I can get in touch with him? Do you guys have company e-mail? Thanks.

[Tosh26]

Straits Times, Sunday 15 July 2001.

Extract from recent SIA General Shareholders Meeting:

"Besides questioning the merits of Singapore Airlines’ recent expansion plans, some shareholders raised objections to increasing directors’ fees to $630,000 from $250,000 a year ago, although the motion passed after a show of hands".

- Bloomberg News

[Insider107]

Unfortunately I was away during the Safety Attitude Survey Briefing Session of 11 July 2001 but I’ve spoken with a number of colleagues who were present and who’ve been able to give me a fair idea of what was said during the course of the Session.

I was pleased to hear the generally favourable comment on EVPT Lt Gen L.G.Bey’s performance and the judgement that not only does he come across as a very nice person but that he is intelligent, articulate and open-minded – hopefully such obvious talent will extend to an aptitude for thought “outside the box” and, for once in SQ’s life, innovative and positive change to the pilots’ welfare benefits may arise. I heard similar sentiments expressed in respect of ALPA-S President, Captain Mok’s performance – does this bode well for future dialogue and pay negotiation between the two of them or will the weight of past events and feelings overwhelm them? Time will tell and we can only but lend them our full support.

Which leads me on to what I understand were the key components of Professor Bob Helmreich’s analysis of the questionnaire data which most of us sent in.

The analysis demonstrates the following points:

1. Belief that Flt Ops management is doing a good job is virtually zero
2. Trust in Flt Ops management is again virtually zero
3. Pilot morale is rock bottom
4. Pilots generally believe in the SQ system of meritocracy (approx 80%)
5. Few pilots believe that Flt Ops management administer this system in a fair and transparent manner (3% do!! – who are they??)
6. Most pilots enjoy their job (despite the exigencies provided by SQ)

If there are more pertinent points, please post them and if I have made mistakes in the above, please correct me.

On point 4. above. For what it’s worth, my own view is that SQ may again like to consider the idea of command selection of FO’s on the basis of seniority and that during the evaluation of the individual’s overall worth (including flying and command potential), his “merit report”, as collated under a new, fair and transparent system, may duly be taken into account. Iconoclasts can relax – meritocracy still has its place but it’s considered in an equally fair queuing system and my suggestion goes some way towards heading off the present situation whereby sycophant robots need only apply – a form of authoritarian control now, hopefully, to be consigned to the “dustbin of history”.

I have used the expression before, in relation to the Flt Ops management, when commenting on the SQ006 imbroglio, but is the above survey finding, again, not the most damning indictment of past collective performance and a personal testament to DFO Captain Maurice de Vaz’s 20 years of shear arrogance, obtuse prevarication, opaque manoeuvring, closed mindedness and the cynical greed of one who has profited at the expense of those he calls his good friends and colleagues and whom he thanks for 30+ years of wonderful flying and comradeship? Please, do not further embarrass us Maurice, just quietly go!

Moving on, I believe that, following professor Helmreich’s presentation, General Bey then addressed the audience – first subject, the ongoing serious pilot shortage (wholly of Maurice de Vaz’s making and the first time that I’ve ever heard of that it’s been publicly acknowledged by SQ!)). I believe that he adroitly spelled out the impact of this situation on the annual leave backlog scandal with the suggestion that we consider extra flying in lieu of SQ cancelling flights due to lack of crews, the adverse effect of which would be felt by the pilots when reflecting on next year’s resulting paltry bonus. I feel sure that General Bey understands, in his inner heart, that an appeal for pilots to fly beyond their contracted 900 hours per year, as a way of relieving roster pressure and thus allowing certain pilots to take leave, really is a non-starter – nice try anyway and I know he’s picking up the pieces but the mess is wholly of SQ’s making, not the pilots’.
If ALPA-S considers the sale of leave a viable temporary measure to alleviate present and particular hardships, then this is another matter and will hopefully be discussed in the context of a return, as other colleagues have mentioned on this thread, of our former 6% annual increment, the temporary foregoing of which (as I understood it) was to assist the Company in the face of an apparent financial storm, which, in the event, never materialised and indeed paved the way towards record profits.

I believe the General continued by outlining the Airline’s 7-point plan to mitigate the now official crew shortage and I’ve heard the ones listed below - can anyone fill in the gaps?

1. Pilots fly extra hours (as above and I hope they make the suggestion as a temporary measure!).
2. Growth restricted to 2% per annum instead of 6-8%
3. Reduce frequencies on selected services presently operated
4. Train selected senior FO’s to “cruise captain” capability, allowing a return to “three man crew” operation (there Maurice, it was easy after all!).
5. Discuss with CAAS raising the retirement age (colleagues are not sure if they heard this correctly)
6. TBA
7. TBA

I understand that he did not, however, mention what is as “plain as a pikestaff” to all of us - that is for SQ to increase the cash to a level comparable with the remuneration compensated by SQ’s global competitors and, further, bring staff travel into the twenty first century!!
Then morale would certainly take a climb and word of this effect, by phone, fax, e-mail, pprune and face to face will be the thing that brings in pilots – nothing else and certainly not exhortations to patiently await change – we’ve heard them all before and we now need clear demonstrations of good faith and an equally clear recognition of the “off balance sheet” priceless asset that the Airline holds, as collectively represented by it’s used and abused flight crews.
I do believe general Bey is the man to provide them, more especially as I understand that, as a preamble, he actually admitted to his audience that SQ pay was not good and that he was therefore relying on what he called “hygiene factors” to increase job satisfaction.
Pay us properly General and treat us with respect and you won’t be able to recognise the airline 12 months from now!

As a footnote, I’m told that a member of the old guard, the newly appointed CP B777, characteristically stalked into the Session late, sat wordless as an “éminence grise” throughout and finally left, having made no contribution. Explanation for this behaviour seems to be split between an ongoing sulk over failure to be awarded Maurice’s job or just a plain old bad hair day!
I know that such an important man is always much too busy to turn up on time – but we really do need the clearest manifestations, by management, of an attempt at a new, egalitarian approach to leadership and an eschewing of the privileged, patrician arrogance of old.

[Farside]

Good morning Insider . You never stop to surprise me with your excellent write ups especially this last one, the more taking into consideration that you were not at the meeting. You have exactly made the relevant points and there is not much to add. I left with some optimism because I was impressed with the way general Bey was conducting his part of the question and answer session. With his past sterling reputation in the air force, and I have flown with enough ex SAF air force pilots here in Singapore to confirm this, I believe that we could be on a recovering trend. It was very reassuring to see that there is respect and a sort of trust between the president of the union , Capt Mok, and general Bey. It has to be said the Capt. Mok gave a very clear and straight forward reply to some of the future hopeful plans of management, and also stated that these stop gap measures were more or less the last bargaining points we had left in the barrel. It is obvious, and we did not need a consultant to tell us, that the present climate between pilots and management is not what you want to battle the oncoming barrage of problems due to pilot shortage, but again if general Bey and the new Director Flt Ops are capable of getting a more trustful and open relation between the two groups, you wont believe what a difference twelve months can do. And it is not only money that is the cure for morale problems, it is as general Bey calls it “hygiene” that has a definite influence in climbing morale, and one of the things that need a very very deep cleaning with gallons of Dettol is our Staff travel because every time I walk out of there I need a shower !!!

[waynechen]

Does anyone knows the SIA hiring First-Officer? :confused:

[thegypsy]

Farside Your naivety amuses me if you think for one minute that ex Gens Bey and Ng are going to rattle any cages to get any real dialogue going with the Pilots.
After SQ6 and to cover SQ from what will probably be a damning inditement and criticism and blame these two gentlemen are on a damage limitation exercise!!
You forget that these two have been chosen from birth almost to follow the party line and will have been brain washed accordingly all these years and they are not going to put their jobs or reputation on the line to make any real changes,mark my words.
Bey,at a recent B744 Fleet meeting confirmed that all mistakes made have to be punished, being SIA this means financially of course.
Of course serious potential flying incidents are different especially if you know the right people.
Recent flurries of new committees being set up all over the place is mere window dressing just to satisfy regulalatory authorities that something is being done within SIA to sort out the mess made by 20 years of rule by fear and intimidation by our beloved leader De Vaz.
As he is responsible for the Pilot shortage and the reason why some Pilots are owed THREE YEARS LEAVE!!! then if SIA are now having to cut services and lose revenue then this should be taken directly from DE Vaz who through the years has benefitted financially by keeping crew costs to the bare minimum.

[Farside]

I hear what you say Gipsy and you are right about the mess created by the present management. But I still believe that the younger management generation, like Bey, realizes that a better ( perhaps eventually good) moral is not only a plus but a must to remain a profitable company. There is a more enlightened attitude forming in Singapore’s bigger company’s with the hiring and listening to expats ( DBS) and as I said before Bey came to SIA with a good reputation. For the rest we have to see and time will learn. It is also obvious that there is not much time left to learn. I am happy to read that at least my naivety amused you, since there is very little amusement left flying the line during the last few months.
Have a good one!

[Tosh26]

gypsy

I noted your final comment, re: de Vaz with great interest. Perhaps what really should be considered is a claw-back of the past two-year’s bonus paid to the Great Leader. The substantial proceeds could then go a long way towards reinstating our 6% annual increment, stolen two years ago.

[Morse Code]

Insider
I happen to be condidering a job with SIA.
I recently read some posts regarding; The company considering stopping the annual bonus payments, and the annual increments.
Is there any truth in these statements!!
Thanks in advance.
MC

[fire wall]

Gentlemen, I am interested in the B777 Brisbane posting and should like to pose some questions to someone in the know. My email address is [email protected] for anyone who would care to help.
Thanks

[thegypsy]

Farside You are totally right in saying that there has been very little amusement in SIA of late.

Tosh 26 I agree with what you say about our STOLEN 6% Service Increment.

Back to the subject of SIA Jobs, for those of you considering a position based in Singapore.
When called for your interview you will be given a sub load Economy ticket to Sin.DO NOT expect to be upgraded as SIA want you to know from DAY I exactly what they think of you.They already have a pretty shrewd idea that you are desperate for the job as otherwise why would you come all the way to Sin ,pay all hotel and living costs yourself and the $500 for your medical.
When you get your offer of employment and you accept then that could be your first big mistake as it is not unheard of for SIA to put back your course a month or two.
On your eventual arrival do not make the mistake of thinking you have joined an efficient training organisation because you have not. Your training will last all of 4MONTHS during which time you are on a derisory salary. Another favourite trick of SIA is to send you on forced leave at some stage of your ground school,say 2 weeks. They like to do this whilst you are unproductive and on a low salary. Nice people are they not!!??
Within 20 days you have to hand over $45000/46000/60000 as a bank guarantee for 5years and 4 months. The Banks will charge you $2000 for the paperwork!!
During the ground school you will have to pay for Air Law exam and you will have to renew your medical and licence which you have to pay for!!
Your thoughts may well be thinking of renting an apartment. You will have to put up a deposit of 2 months rent to the landlord say $8700 also rental stamp duty of around $1000.
If you have children of school age then you have to put up a heavy deposit to the school.
Most expat schools are on west side of the Island which means taxis to work will be expensive
Did I hear you say you will get a car? Well forget that unless you want to mortgage your next 5 years salary for the pleasure.
When you do your calculations I think it would be wise to consider that there will be no more bonuses or service increments due to the downturn in business and the fact that SATS and SIAEC have been sold off and SIA fiddle the bonus formula to suit their own ends and even having changed it recently they now have refused to pay what is owed and the matter is now with the Ministry of Manpower. In true SIA fashion they have with held the 1.5 months they graciously said they would give as an ex-gratia payment until the matter is resolved!!
Have you all got the message yet as to what kind of employer SIA is???
I would suggest you all put off accepting a job with SIA until the financial results for the first half of the current financial year are announced around Mid October,although as SIA want to decide themselves what bonus to pay if any then you still cannot be sure.
Remember if you do join BRING PLENTY OF MONEY WITH YOU. Don't say you have not been warned.

[locgreen]

Morse Code...

There is no truth in whatever you have heard about bonuses and increments being cancelled in future. There is a Service Increment Profit Sharing agreement in place, and a new agreement is due to be negotiated. However, do not expect next year's bonus to be anywhere close to this year's. Times are not good, and not expected to improve anytime soon. I expect next year's bonus to be around 2-3 months plus 13th month. Service increment for 2002 will be 5%.

Regards.

[sia sniffer]

Its not how much they SQ pay, but what it buys that really counts. Expat skippers who have the dosh to buy a motor , would normally be driving a seventies "has been" jalopy. Why? Fancy something a bit younger, perhaps a 2 door family saloon, maybe 2-3 yrs old, well there are recent ads in the Straits Times (divide by 2.55=sterling/1.82=US)

1 OWNER MID 99 Accord 2.3Vtec, deposit $5K, sunroof, elect. seats, tax/ s/rims/ CD accessories, STA evaluation, accident free! $103K neg.

Well, maybe a bit pricy eh, have to try a ten year'er, surely they must go for peanuts

92 CIVIC 1.6ESi Auto. New paint/ leather seats. Tax 10/01. Remote, alarm, s/rims, hi-fi. A1 engine. We accept credit cards/ Nets. $48,800 neg.[B]null[/B

Ah, rats, I guess wannabes will still be getting the bus to work, waiting in line in the 95% tropical humidity,sweaty and bothered before their final line check, with Captain "I hate expats" Lee/Wong/Ng...., the list is endless.

wannabes try
Singapore Cars (http://classified.asia1.com.sg/cgi-bin/ADgate?cl=%3D316&requestm=GET&range=1) for futher depressing reading.

[411A]

Gosh, makes the S$17,000 I paid for a NEW Mazda years ago seem positivly a bargain. Also, it would appear that the conditions of service have not changed much, except that years ago they did not "hate expats".

[Capt PPRuNe]

As this thread has now reached over 100 replies I am closing it due to the limitations of the software when handling long threads.

Feel free to restart a new thread with the same title Mk II