Singaporean self-sponsored CPL holders - where are you?

[demandpump]

I'm starting this thread for Singaporeans who had, for some reason or other, pursued and completed their own CPL training overseas. Where are you guys and gals now? Have you all managed to find a flying job at all?

Is there any hope for a local Singaporean CPL/ATPL holder with low hours to join budget carriers like Tiger, Valuair or Jetstar Asia?

I'm asking this because here in the little red dot, besides SQ and the air force, the aviation scene is as good as dead. People who aren't successful in joining SQ or the air force (like me) can pretty much kiss bye bye to their aviation dreams. Its a sad fact.

I'm interested to train for a CPL, but I know the chances of finding a job upon return is close to zero. And that's what's stopping me.

Any feedback from Singaporeans or otherwise, currently training for a CPL or who have already attained a CPL, would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Thermal Image]

I'm starting this thread for Singaporeans who had, for some reason or other, pursued and completed their own CPL training overseas. Where are you guys and gals now? Have you all managed to find a flying job at all?

Most have, but with varying degrees of frustration. I know people who have done their own CPL, get in, and get chopped. Try to network your way into SFC, there are a few there now, re-doing some or all of their ATPL.

Is there any hope for a local Singaporean CPL/ATPL holder with low hours to join budget carriers like Tiger, Valuair or Jetstar Asia?

No. Minimum time is about 1500TT jet hours.

I'm asking this because here in the little red dot, besides SQ and the air force, the aviation scene is as good as dead. People who aren't successful in joining SQ or the air force (like me) can pretty much kiss bye bye to their aviation dreams. Its a sad fact.

I'm interested to train for a CPL, but I know the chances of finding a job upon return is close to zero. And that's what's stopping me.

Any feedback from Singaporeans or otherwise, currently training for a CPL or who have already attained a CPL, would be appreciated. Thanks.

You know the odds, that's a good starting point. The cheapest option is to improve your chances of being selected as a cadet pilot. Personality is the biggest attribute, not too much you can do there if they interviewers don't feel that you have the x-factor. If you meet all the hard requirements (educational specs etc), you can also "buy" some credibility by doing a PPL in Johor, as some cadets have done to demonstrate "passion".

The race at this point for you, is really not about doing an ATPL and getting selected by SQ/MI/SinCargo. It is about being selected as a cadet pilot. Just like if you and your mates face a tiger in the jungle - you don't have to outrun the tiger, just your mates.

There is much information on this part of the forum about that. Do some reading.

[demandpump]

The race at this point for you, is really not about doing an ATPL and getting selected by SQ/MI/SinCargo. It is about being selected as a cadet pilot. Just like if you and your mates face a tiger in the jungle - you don't have to outrun the tiger, just your mates.

Thanks for the reply,
I forgot to add that I wasn't successful at the SQ final interview 5 years ago, so I can forget about cadet pilot.....moreover I'm at the wrong end of their age limit.

[demandpump]

Most have, but with varying degrees of frustration. I know people who have done their own CPL, get in, and get chopped.

Hi, what kind of jobs? In SIA? Or as instructors in one of the flying clubs? Has anyone of them joined foreign airlines?
Thanks.

[cochise]

Hey,
I was born in Singapore, my father was a training captain and then a line captain with SQ for over 23 years but since I held a foreign passport SQ denied me time and time again but I can't blame them as they have had problems with foreigners leaving them for the Sandpit once they had some time and a type.
The thing I found was that Singapore, as you said is very limiting unless you get on as a Cadet. I was fortunate enough to be able to live and work in a few other countries. I did everything short of stealing to build hours and am currently an FO on the Dash-8 in the Caribbean. It's definately not SQ but it's a job and I still enjoy going to work.
Goodluck.
P.S as always in Aviation, it's not what you know but who you know. So get out there, shake some hands, exchange email addresses and keep in touch. You never know who's going to be sitting on the other end of the table in the interview room!

[Thermal Image]

Hi, what kind of jobs? In SIA? Or as instructors in one of the flying clubs? Has anyone of them joined foreign airlines?
Thanks.

I'm referring to cadet pilots. At least one I know personally, had a CPL from Canada, had a bad attitude and got chopped just before the twin engine stage. Got chopped even though he was the nephew of some senior SIA management guy. Don't know what he's up to now.

There have been others, eg one who did his own CPL, was underaged so he waited out his time but was an instructor at the Flying College in the meantime, then joined SilkAir, crossed over to SIA, got his command, and now has left for another Asian carrier. Did very well, decent bloke, nice instructor, good operator, a lot of passion for flying. Totally deserved his success. Like the first example, he had a godfather in SIA Flt Ops which helped even more because he was a good guy.

There are many others who joined as cadet pilots with their own CPLs. There are also several with their own CPLs, tried to get in but could not, not because they were undeserving but because of high level politicking. For example, one decent chap was blocked by vindictive forces, even though he had a father in SQ who was a senior instructor. He flew for a while as an instructor with the Flying College, went on to a local government contractor flying Learjets, and is now with DragonAir(?) as a captain.

It's not impossible to fund your own CPL / ATPL, find work and be happy with it. But it is a very risky choice.

Well, so far somebody has indeed checked-in to say he had his own CPL and is happy with his lot. Maybe more will answer you and lift your spirits?

[AiRBuS_380]

hi there, to give u guys some information on my career path as a private student for a personnel avaition course in new zealand.

join SIA 4 years ago when i was 25yrs old. been offered straight for leajet course then for my boeing conversion.i am those lucky ones which make it through the interview.i entered the industry with a degree in aivation(ATPL) and a degree in aviaiton management.i risk my whole life to this industry.gave up NUS or NTU admisioons.

i got a few friends who got chopped at certain stage. thus it really depends on how u see it. as for the world... with a ICAO reconigsed ATPL u can find manay career paths with other airlines. thus if u have the passion to fly be prepare to give up ur time in SIN for a while inorder to get your FO with other airlines.my frd who got chopped now flys with CX and even we hold the same rank his pay was so much better then mine but he uses his time in SIN to exchange for monitory assets...

have fun with flying.

seek other options if u really want to fly there are a certain number of airlines which i can tell u openly that offers to pple with cpl or atpl.
pm me and we will discuess more...

giving out everything to go to aviaiton...its my dream and it is yours too.

[demandpump]

Thanks for the replies and encouragement.

The thing is this. If I were to come back with my own CPL. I wouldn't be so keen to join SIA anymore. Several reasons:
1. I'll be too old for the cadet pilot selection
2. They wouldn't accept me, because my name is blacklisted. (Having failed the final interview many moons ago)
3. Even if they did take me in, I don't see any sense in me spending so much time and money to get my own commercial ticket, just to have to go through their training regime all over again. Too much time spent there.

I would rather (if at all possible) work for a regional or cargo operator, either up north, or down south to gain the hours. Never mind if they use an old musty, rusty tin can of a 737-200. Heck, I may even be flying russian aircraft. I believe there's more experience to be gained there.

But anyway, here's some background info of myself. I attained my restricted PPL a couple years ago after being bitten by the flying bug. Unfortunately I was not successful at the SQ final interviews. Discouraged and disappointed, I forced flying out of my mind, and vowed never to go near an airplane again. So I packed up, and went abroad to get an IT degree. I've been working in the IT sector for 2 years now. But my mind always wanders skywards, and I still secretly yearn to achieve that elusive dream.

As in the words of Leonardo da Vinci:
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

Once again, thanks for all the responses.

[billkill]

Hey,
P.S as always in Aviation, it's not what you know but who you know. So get out there, shake some hands, exchange email addresses and keep in touch. You never know who's going to be sitting on the other end of the table in the interview room!

Got to agree with that. It so small a community that even news pass around very fast. It is true that knowing a few names can help...

[graco]

hi demandpump,

If you were to do your CLP where are you planing to go to get the training? Are you going to it full time or part time? I hope you don't mine me asking this questions.

Thanks..

[demandpump]

hi demandpump,

If you were to do your CLP where are you planing to go to get the training? Are you going to it full time or part time? I hope you don't mine me asking this questions.

Thanks..

Hi graco,
If I were to do it, then probably in Australia, full time.

[AiRBuS_380]

for your information

those who wish to fly singapore airlines and exempted from cadetship with direct entry as a 2nd officer,

CASA ATPL/IR is not reconisged with CAAS civil aviation authority singapore

With a australian atpl u will still need to go through cadetship with SIA
i will recommnand that those who wants to fly espcially with SQ massey university bachelor in aviaiton is a better choice. it is a 3 year program for those without aviaiton history and it cost about 100k but the plus point is that they issue u a straight conversion atpl. thats means u hold a NZ and SIN ATPL/IR

cheers

[Left Wing]

Singaporean locals,

if you speak Mandarin why not go fly in China, if you really want to fly so bad. :hmm:

[demandpump]

CASA ATPL/IR is not reconisged with CAAS civil aviation authority singapore

I know...but I'm not too keen to join SQ anyway. I hope to work for a regional operator somewhere else. Turbo props are a lot more fun to fly, don't you think? Again, wishfull thinking on my part... :(

[AiRBuS_380]

have fun flying... being self spornspered is a risk... and yes i made it through my risk assesment and so can anyone out there... have a passion to fly and u can do it...
A380 here i come...

cheers...

for those who want to contact me or for any thing under the sun pls email me at [email protected]

the private messges took too long to load. thanks...

[RoSs|gnoL]

Hey fellas,

I just got an email asking me to attend the 1st interview for SQ on 17th Mar.

I did a Bachelor of Aviation(Flying) degree at the Uni of New South Wales in Sydney, graduated in Dec last year. Its a 3 year course, half spent doing academic subjects at uni, the other half in our own hangar training for up till CPL, ME-CIR and ATPL, in our own aircraft and with our own instructors. For those who are thinking of doing their flight training at uni, there may be some good news. My CFI and head of department were just here a few weeks ago during AA2006 checking on the feasibility of opening up a flight school here or in M'sia. The only problem is that it'll be sometime away, earliest being 2008.

[demandpump]

I was told that it would be cheaper to do a single engine CPL in Australia, and then hop on over to Malaysia to complete the MEIR and Malaysian ATPL theory. Is this true? Anyone done this before?

What sort of conversion or extra flying hours do we need in this sort of scenario before we can continue the MEIR training in Malaysia?

I was also told that the Malaysian ATPL is more recognised than the Australian one - at least in the Asian region anyway. Any truth in that?

Finally, would a Singaporean with a Malaysian ATPL stand any chance of finding employment in Malaysia?

Thanks!

[cochise]

Malaysia is a different place when it comes to employment. Like I said in my earlier post "it's not what you know but who you know". I learned that in Malaysia that "it's not who you know, but who knows you!" It's very hard to get in touch with people and arrange meetings with companies and they want experience on type. The usually only take direct entry captains if you're foreign.
In the end I got offered a job as an instructor with the Malaysian Flying Academy but ended up turning it down because I got my current job offer. You really have to have a few connections in Malaysia to get a job and as for a Singaporean I'm sure it will prove a lot more challenging!
There is one thing you're right about though...Turboprops are more fun! :} Sorry I just had to poke fun at the jet jocks!

[airbusboeingdriver]

:E hi everyone out there,

the aviation in sin is somehow improved now comparing to the time i was searching for my break. if you are equipped with a cpl/atpl, i would suggest you guys start picking up that phone and call. dont give up and waste the hard earned money you have invested in your cpl.

best of luck.

[cruisercruiser]

Hi dudes,

I've read the threads here about going to MFA for a CPL/IR. I've got a friend who drove all the way up north on a weekend to enquire about signing up. He was told that it's fully booked til April 2007 and was told to leave his name with 100+ other private students and they'll give him a call when there's a vacancy. Apparently AirAsia and MAS have been flooding MFA with students that they are operating at capacity. It seems like aviation in this region is really booming!

A bit of info about myself: I'm a SIA final round reject and like most of you here, am passionate about flying and am saving hard for the course up north or australia. I was told by some cadet friends who were ex classmates that they do not entertain 2nd round rejects like myself. So I had to look for alternative like those I've mentioned. I'm 28 this year and will need a few more years of saving before I can afford the fees. I guess by the time I get a CPL/IR I'll reach an old 32 or 33! I'll still presevere though.

I know an instructor in SYFC who advised me to seek a "written blessing" from the GM of SYFC that they'll employ me after I get my CPL/IR from MFA, before I embark on the course. I haven't done so since I'm still short of about 2/3 of the sum required! Any thoughts on the "written blessing" and clocking hours as a AQFI/QFI in SYFC? Any comments positive or negative most welcomed!

I would like to take this opportunity to look around for people who have flung the final SQ interview and yet got in some years later, either through the usual cadet way or through the long hard way of clocking hours as an instructor or bush piloting. I know there might be none! However I still harbour hopes that SQ will one fine day change their recruitment policy.

Hope to hear from you guys really soon!

cruiser

[cruisercruiser]

for your information

those who wish to fly singapore airlines and exempted from cadetship with direct entry as a 2nd officer,

CASA ATPL/IR is not reconisged with CAAS civil aviation authority singapore

With a australian atpl u will still need to go through cadetship with SIA
i will recommnand that those who wants to fly espcially with SQ massey university bachelor in aviaiton is a better choice. it is a 3 year program for those without aviaiton history and it cost about 100k but the plus point is that they issue u a straight conversion atpl. thats means u hold a NZ and SIN ATPL/IR

cheers

Hi AiRBuS_380,

It sounds like you have worked your way up to where you are now privately. If I'm right I must say congratulations! I've known a few people who have done it through the hard way: they got their CPL/IR (malaysian) fly as instructors for the thenYFC, got their ways into SilkAir and are now first officers. i believe this is still the most feasible way for private students. Could you please share with me the path you took?

Hope to hear from you soon!

cruiser

[9M-]

Hi dudes,

I've read the threads here about going to MFA for a CPL/IR. I've got a friend who drove all the way up north on a weekend to enquire about signing up. He was told that it's fully booked til April 2007 and was told to leave his name with 100+ other private students and they'll give him a call when there's a vacancy. Apparently AirAsia and MAS have been flooding MFA with students that they are operating at capacity. It seems like aviation in this region is really booming!

A bit of info about myself: I'm a SIA final round reject and like most of you here, am passionate about flying and am saving hard for the course up north or australia. I was told by some cadet friends who were ex classmates that they do not entertain 2nd round rejects like myself. So I had to look for alternative like those I've mentioned. I'm 28 this year and will need a few more years of saving before I can afford the fees. I guess by the time I get a CPL/IR I'll reach an old 32 or 33! I'll still presevere though.

I know an instructor in SYFC who advised me to seek a "written blessing" from the GM of SYFC that they'll employ me after I get my CPL/IR from MFA, before I embark on the course. I haven't done so since I'm still short of about 2/3 of the sum required! Any thoughts on the "written blessing" and clocking hours as a AQFI/QFI in SYFC? Any comments positive or negative most welcomed!

I would like to take this opportunity to look around for people who have flung the final SQ interview and yet got in some years later, either through the usual cadet way or through the long hard way of clocking hours as an instructor or bush piloting. I know there might be none! However I still harbour hopes that SQ will one fine day change their recruitment policy.

Hope to hear from you guys really soon!

cruiser

Hi,
There are many factors you need to consider before embarking on your long and expensive journey. Do not just think going to a cpl/ir school you will have a job after that. You have to have a backup plan. Also getting an australian CPL/IR and coming back home to convert proves another problem. CAAS will not convert your licence for you unless you are employed by an air operator and air operator will not emply you because you do not have a CAAS CPL. Thats how they control aviation in sg. If you are looking for opportunities in malaysia with a CPL , DCA will require you to have total PIC time of 500hours before you are eligible to take the written ATPL/CPL papers. They will not convert your licence until you have sit for all the papers.

Working in malaysia as an instructor i would say is of a higer possibility than compared to working in singapore. Many post in singapore are reserved for the ex air force pilots. Anyway what i think is the best path if if you can afford go ahead with the CPL and be prepared to have to work as an instructor to clock your hours.

[demandpump]

I know an instructor in SYFC who advised me to seek a "written blessing" from the GM of SYFC that they'll employ me after I get my CPL/IR from MFA, before I embark on the course. I haven't done so since I'm still short of about 2/3 of the sum required! Any thoughts on the "written blessing" and clocking hours as a AQFI/QFI in SYFC? Any comments positive or negative most welcomed!


Hi,

If you can get a job at SYFC, then its good. I was a student there once. They impose high standards on training and on instructors as well. But be mindful that the kind of flying done at SYFC is very limiting. You basically fly round and round in circles in the training area. No cross-country flying, no multi-engine, no instrument flying, you don't get to shoot instrument approaches. I'm not even sure if there is a VOR station to track.

After too much of visual single-engine flying, you might get rusty on other advanced flying techniques, then that's not very good. Moreover, having a couple thousand hours on a PA-28 isn't going to do much good for the airlines.

SYFC has a very "military" culture, because of its close links with the air force. Many of the instructors are former/current air force pilots. When I was flying there (many years ago), there were a few self-sponsored CPL guys, don't know if they're still there now. During those days, students were allowed to dress casually for flying lessons. Now they have to wear "flight suits". I think the instructors as well (?)

[demandpump]

If you are looking for opportunities in malaysia with a CPL , DCA will require you to have total PIC time of 500hours before you are eligible to take the written ATPL/CPL papers. They will not convert your licence until you have sit for all the papers.


Hi 9M-,
Are you refering to the Australian CPL, that you'll need to have 500hrs before DCA will allow you to convert?

What if a student went over to MFA with 165hrs single-engine Australian CPL, and wanted to do the MEIR training in Malaysia? What sort of conversion would he need? Can he simply just carry on from where he left off and complete the MEIR (35hrs) training and get the Malaysian license? Are there extra hours to be flown, and extra papers to sit? Or is this sort of thing totally not allowed?

Thanks!

[9M-]

Hi 9M-,
Are you refering to the Australian CPL, that you'll need to have 500hrs before DCA will allow you to convert?

What if a student went over to MFA with 165hrs single-engine Australian CPL, and wanted to do the MEIR training in Malaysia? What sort of conversion would he need? Can he simply just carry on from where he left off and complete the MEIR (35hrs) training and get the Malaysian license? Are there extra hours to be flown, and extra papers to sit? Or is this sort of thing totally not allowed?

Thanks!

In malaysia, If you are with MFA from scratch or from your PPL stage then the 200 hours rules apply which will grant you a malaysian CPL after that. If you have an oversea CPL and come to malaysia to convert to a malaysian one then they will require you to either sit for the UKCAA CPL papers or they can let you take the UKCAA ATPL papers straight away before they will consider converting your foreign CPL. On top of that, you must have 500 PIC hours before you can take the exams.

As for IR, It is best that you write a letter to DCA to seek their approval before embarking on it overseas bcos if you do not have a letter of approval from them, they will not recognised it at all.

If you intend to do your IR in malaysia, MFA and LATC will require you to wait like 2 more years? before having a space for you. So All is not good in malaysia for private candidates. Anyway what i have quoted above will still have to be on a case by case basis from DCA. One more tip is in malaysia whatever you want to do , ALWAYS get a letter of approval from DCA before trying.

[demandpump]

Malaysia is a different place when it comes to employment. Like I said in my earlier post "it's not what you know but who you know". I learned that in Malaysia that "it's not who you know, but who knows you!" It's very hard to get in touch with people and arrange meetings with companies and they want experience on type. The usually only take direct entry captains if you're foreign.
In the end I got offered a job as an instructor with the Malaysian Flying Academy but ended up turning it down because I got my current job offer. You really have to have a few connections in Malaysia to get a job and as for a Singaporean I'm sure it will prove a lot more challenging!
There is one thing you're right about though...Turboprops are more fun! :} Sorry I just had to poke fun at the jet jocks!

Hi cochise,
Could you share with us your aviation experience. Where you did your CPL training? What was your first job? What citizenship do you hold? (born in Singapore?) How did you get to your current job in the Caribbean...etc

Thanks!

[cochise]

Not a problem. Was born in Singapore but my parents are from Trinidad & Tobago in the southern caribbean. I went to FlightSafety Academy in Vero Beach Florida and did my CPL/Multi/IR plus an instructors rating there. You have the option under the J1 visa in the states to continue there for a year as an instructor to build time if you get selected. I went back to the Caribbean and instructed in light aircraft and built some time as a charter pilot on a Cessna 402. After about a year I went back up to the states and did everything from Instructing on about 15 different types of light singles and twins to flying charter in a KingAir 200 to flying cargo in an ancient beech 18. After that I went back to Asia to take a look around but found it very difficult. I got offered a job with the MFA and accepted but the same day I got a call for a Dash-8 Job in the caribbean...needless to say I was on the next plane home. I've been working here for about a year now and hopefully will have my command within the next 2 if things keep going the way they are...
hope this helps

[AiRBuS_380]

Hi AiRBuS_380,

It sounds like you have worked your way up to where you are now privately. If I'm right I must say congratulations! I've known a few people who have done it through the hard way: they got their CPL/IR (malaysian) fly as instructors for the thenYFC, got their ways into SilkAir and are now first officers. i believe this is still the most feasible way for private students. Could you please share with me the path you took?

Hope to hear from you soon!

cruiser
hi cruiser,

well heres my flying preview of my life.
went to massey university after army to take a double degree bachelor in aviation(ATPL/muti-IR) and bachelor in aviation management. the ATPL is a singapore CAAS atpl

graduate and applied to SIA, got in as a 2nd officer,
went for leajet45 trainig
training type rating for B744
line training as a 2nd officer
FO for B744 till 2005
now on my pharse of type conversion to A380
i still do flghts in between.

thats how my flying life proceed....

cheers
a great way to fly
singapore airlines

[cruisercruiser]

If you are looking for opportunities in malaysia with a CPL , DCA will require you to have total PIC time of 500hours before you are eligible to take the written ATPL/CPL papers. They will not convert your licence until you have sit for all the papers.

Working in malaysia as an instructor i would say is of a higer possibility than compared to working in singapore. Many post in singapore are reserved for the ex air force pilots. Anyway what i think is the best path if if you can afford go ahead with the CPL and be prepared to have to work as an instructor to clock your hours.

Hi 9M-,

Thanks very much for the info! Very helpful indeed.

Some further questions. If I get a malaysian license, what do you think are the chances that I will find employment other than being an instructor in MFA? I am aware that getting employed as an instructor in MFA is difficult especially so since I'm singaporean? Do you know of other flying clubs in malaysia where we can clock our hours? I know of a FRAS in johor.

I believe the instructor in SYFC who told me to get a written blessing from the club's GM before I embark on my course in MFA meant to tell me that I must make sure they are willing to convert my malaysian license to the singaporean one. If they are not willing, like what you said about the controlled aviation in singapore, I will not be able to fly in sg. Thats why I need to knwo about options in malaysia.

looking forward to your reply,

cheers!

[cruisercruiser]

hi cruiser,

well heres my flying preview of my life.
went to massey university after army to take a double degree bachelor in aviation(ATPL/muti-IR) and bachelor in aviation management. the ATPL is a singapore CAAS atpl

graduate and applied to SIA, got in as a 2nd officer,
went for leajet45 trainig
training type rating for B744
line training as a 2nd officer
FO for B744 till 2005
now on my pharse of type conversion to A380
i still do flghts in between.

thats how my flying life proceed....

cheers
a great way to fly
singapore airlines

Hi AiRBuS_380,

Thanks for sharing. BTW are you a singaporean? I know a taiwanese guy who took the course in massey and is now with EVA. I've heard from him that the course is quite a tough one with about 20 people starting and only a handful graduating. Any comments?

I have contemplated taking up the course in massey which is 3 years and costs about $100K, and the MFA option. The MFA one seems like a better deal considering the course is shorter and cheaper. Of course If I were thinking of flying in sg, I'll have the problem of converting the license to CAAS standard.

Another thing: Did you try applying for SIA even before you took the course in massey? Just curious.

Cheers,

cruiser

[AiRBuS_380]

hi cruiser,
yes i am a singaporean.

i wentto massey when i was 22.straight after army.
for u to take a atpl/ir ar massey its a 3 year degree course and theres alot of test and papers to sit,
its much tougher then those australia fly school.

i went to massey to take a double degree program bachchelor in aviation (atpl/ir) and bachelor in aviation management.

i cant apply to SIA during my time becouse
1 im underage
2 i only have a diploma,at my time degree poses a class higher.for now its definately a degree unless u are very special then they will consider.

cheers hope that helps.

[9M-]

Hi 9M-,

Thanks very much for the info! Very helpful indeed.

Some further questions. If I get a malaysian license, what do you think are the chances that I will find employment other than being an instructor in MFA? I am aware that getting employed as an instructor in MFA is difficult especially so since I'm singaporean? Do you know of other flying clubs in malaysia where we can clock our hours? I know of a FRAS in johor.

I believe the instructor in SYFC who told me to get a written blessing from the club's GM before I embark on my course in MFA meant to tell me that I must make sure they are willing to convert my malaysian license to the singaporean one. If they are not willing, like what you said about the controlled aviation in singapore, I will not be able to fly in sg. Thats why I need to knwo about options in malaysia.

looking forward to your reply,

cheers!

Hi,
Instructors are in HUGH demand now in malaysia. DCA had just come up with new rules making training for Assistant Flying Instructor difficult. If you can become an instructor, looking for a club to teach will not be a problem. In another word flying clubs will grab you like gold.

The catch is, flying clubs in malaysia pay instructor by hourly commission. Meaning no flight = no money. So if you want a more stable income, joining MFA or LATC will provide you with fix pay irregardless of how many flights you do a month. Anyway getting employed in MFA is not difficult provided you got the basic qualification they are looking for. You just need a CPL and an instructor rating, they will take u in. MFA consist of 90% foreign instructors btw.

As for flying clubs in johor, there are currently 3. Fras flying club, Elite flying club and Johor flying club. Hope this informations help and if you need anymore info you can always ask again.

[cruisercruiser]

Thanks for the reply,
I forgot to add that I wasn't successful at the SQ final interview 5 years ago, so I can forget about cadet pilot.....moreover I'm at the wrong end of their age limit.

I was also a SQ final interview reject. I was told that I will never ever be considered again. But something happened puzzled me. I applied 2 years after my final interview failure and was called down for the first interview about 7 months back. The captain who interviewed me said something like "since you've demonstrated that you're really keen, we'll consider your application" I got a rejection letter 3 days later saying "we've gone through your application in detail and regret to inform you that you are unsuccessful in your application..."

Wierd things going on. Any comments??

Well, I didn't pin much hope on SIA after my final round failure thats why i'm looking elsewhere for alternatives.

cheers

[Boeing79]

Pls check your pm, bro cruisercruiser ;)

[9M-]

I was also a SQ final interview reject. I was told that I will never ever be considered again. But something happened puzzled me. I applied 2 years after my final interview failure and was called down for the first interview about 7 months back. The captain who interviewed me said something like "since you've demonstrated that you're really keen, we'll consider your application" I got a rejection letter 3 days later saying "we've gone through your application in detail and regret to inform you that you are unsuccessful in your application..."

Wierd things going on. Any comments??

Well, I didn't pin much hope on SIA after my final round failure thats why i'm looking elsewhere for alternatives.

cheers

Hi,
Thats something new i heard. Never knew SIA accept applicants who failed the final interview before. I was told if your upgrade yourself from a degree to a masters or from a diploma to a degree, they might give you another chance. Just wana ask did u by any chance upgraded your education within this 2 years after you failed the final interview?

Thanks.

[cruisercruiser]

Hi,
Thats something new i heard. Never knew SIA accept applicants who failed the final interview before. I was told if your upgrade yourself from a degree to a masters or from a diploma to a degree, they might give you another chance. Just wana ask did u by any chance upgraded your education within this 2 years after you failed the final interview?

Thanks.

Hi, I guess I would just post a reply I gave to one of the guys in this thread who PMed me. I understand that this thread was started to discuss about possible alternative training, however I believe sharing my experience with others will in a way or another help them gain?

Here's it:

Hi dude,

I understand your hopes and anxiety upon hearing about my case. You must be thinking " There is hope". Please do not let your hopes run too high cos from a very personnal point of view, I believe what I experienced is a SIA screw up rather than a change of policy for the airline. I'll answer you questions as best as I could.

I cleared my first interview on my first attempt in feb 2003. One month later, I got called up for the final rounds which I failed. I applied a few times after that failure but never got a reply. Sometime in june- july 2005 (which was about 7-8 months back) I applied again and got a shock when they called me up for a 1ST interview. What happened next is what you read in my post yesterday.

The questions I got were very different from my first interview I had in 2003. They asked me whether I had gone through the 2nd interview (which I had honestly {and very stupidly} indicated in the form applicants are supposed to fill up stating the number of times the 1st interview they had). The captain then said there is no point going through the questions again since I had already passed the first interview 2 years back. Then he asked about general things like where i was working, what i had done in the past 2 years etc. It was a very quick one that lasted only 10 minutes I think. Then i was told to wait for their reply that will take about 1-2 weeks. I knew it was gone from the length of the interview. I took the opportunity to ask the captain whether it is still possible for a 2nd round reject like me to be selected and his reply was what i stated in the post yesterday. However I got an email from edward 3 days later saying I was unsuccessful. In my opinion, HR screwed up the shortlisting and I ended up going for the 1st interview which I am not even eligible for since SIA do not accept people who had failed the final rounds. What the interviewers said were just paying lip sevice to me so as not to look bad in the screw up that they had done.

For the past 2.5 years I have never heard of anyone going for the interview again after they had failed the 2nd rounds. I have heard from friends who are cadets and 2nd officers in there that SIA will not accept 2nd round rejects. I was the first that went for the interview again after being rejected in the 2nd round. I strongly believe it’s a screw up cos in the interview, they seem disinterested and unprofessional when they confirmed with me that I was a 2nd round reject. Maybe things would have turned out differently if I had lied that I haven’t been to the 2nd interview. I would then have the chance of sitting through the first interview again and upon passing go to the 2nd round. But having said that, I had heard that the computerized test in the 2nd round will have a data base consisting of names that had already taken the test. That’s why joyce was quite careful about us checking our names on the screen and making sure that it appears exactly like it is in our IC, before starting our test. Well, all these are unsubstantiated “opinions” from my very own experience and from cadets and pilots in there. They’ll never be confirmed unless they come straight from the HR peoples’ mouths.

I did not upgrade my qualification before the call-up. This further adds to my suspicions that my call-up was a screw up. I am 28. Like I’ve mentioned above I was very honest when filling up the forms. I stated I’ve taken the 2nd round. I did not add anything else. Believe me till today I am still puzzled as to why I was called up. I was given hopes but was sent smashing when they rejected me the 2nd time round. Double whammy. Honestly, thinking back now, I would have told the interviewers that I haven’t been rejected. Maybe that will bring me further. Well I may never know. And like you said SIA works strangely and we will never understand unless we get info straight from HR.

I have been thinking about Massey. You might have read from this thread that I’d posted that its very expensive and longer as compared to the MFA option. I do not come from a rich family and am currently saving up by working as an engineer. I ‘ll probably take another 3-4 years before I save enough for MFA. Like you I am passionate about flying and have never thought of giving it up. The only thing restricting me now is the money factor. I am definitely with you in pursuing this dream. Please do keep in contact to discuss future plans and options. We could help each other out in this long hard journey. My email is [email protected] ([email protected]).

For your info I’m working in the UK now and will not return to Singapore for the next 1 year.

Meanwhile keep our heads up. Success comes to those who persevere.

cruiser

[zelin]

Hi,
If you can get a job at SYFC, then its good. I was a student there once. They impose high standards on training and on instructors as well. But be mindful that the kind of flying done at SYFC is very limiting. You basically fly round and round in circles in the training area. No cross-country flying, no multi-engine, no instrument flying, you don't get to shoot instrument approaches. I'm not even sure if there is a VOR station to track.
After too much of visual single-engine flying, you might get rusty on other advanced flying techniques, then that's not very good. Moreover, having a couple thousand hours on a PA-28 isn't going to do much good for the airlines.
SYFC has a very "military" culture, because of its close links with the air force. Many of the instructors are former/current air force pilots. When I was flying there (many years ago), there were a few self-sponsored CPL guys, don't know if they're still there now. During those days, students were allowed to dress casually for flying lessons. Now they have to wear "flight suits". I think the instructors as well (?)
Think the flight instructors that u've known from SYFC are no longer with the club. They've all moved on and mainly the retirees frm airforce are joining them as instructors. Well, flight suits are only issued to students in the PPL phase...those in the basic phase wear a syfc polo-tshirt.
Flying at SYFC, one will be bounded by many rules and regulations, which can really be quite stifling. But well, a couple of their instructors have left to join the airlines...they probably have other hours besides the thousands on the PA28 =P
Cruisercruiser, regarding the flying clubs in johor, Johor Flying club is no longer in operations. There's only FRAS and ELITE flying clubs which are based at Senai now. Joining Elite Flying Club might be a better idea i guess as they have more aircrafts compared to FRAS and currently, u can be an AFI in Malaysia just by holding a PPL. Rules are changing next year to be the same as Singapore, where a CPL would be the minimum to qualify as an AFI.

[zelin]

Well, anyone knows of any prospects in the Singapore aviation industry for the ladies? It certainly seems like it's a dead end, esp with SIA not accepting females into their cadet pilot/flight instructor programme. :ugh: Sigh~

[demandpump]

Well, anyone knows of any prospects in the Singapore aviation industry for the ladies? It certainly seems like it's a dead end, esp with SIA not accepting females into their cadet pilot/flight instructor programme. :ugh: Sigh~

Hi zelin, nice to know there's another lady who's keen to fly. Thanks for the insightful knowledge on the current situation at SYFC. There was this other young Singaporean lady who just completed her Aussie CPL/MEIR who pmed me. I replied her but havn't heard from her since. Wonder how's she doing now. Maybe she's quietly training in one of our budget carriers? :D

u can be an AFI in Malaysia just by holding a PPL

Is this possible? I thought you can't earn a revenue job with just a PPL? Unless you teach for free?

cruisercruiser:
If you already have a degree, I would advice against going to massey. Too expensive. Just get a normal CPL will do. In the meantime, if you're keen to fly, just continue doing what you're doing, not only to save the money for flight training later on, but also to build experience in your current job. Because this will be your back up plan should your aviation dreams not work out. Having said that, if you want to go to MFA, I suggest sending the application early, cos they're saturated. I just made some enquires and was told to send in the application form minus the payment and medical cert so that they can keep it in view. Wonder how long I'll have to wait. Probably very very long.:sad:

[zelin]

Hi zelin, nice to know there's another lady who's keen to fly. Thanks for the insightful knowledge on the current situation at SYFC. There was this other young Singaporean lady who just completed her Aussie CPL/MEIR who pmed me. I replied her but havn't heard from her since. Wonder how's she doing now. Maybe she's quietly training in one of our budget carriers? :D

Hmmm...wonder if she's the one who's with jetstarasia...hehz



Is this possible? I thought you can't earn a revenue job with just a PPL? Unless you teach for free?


Sorry for the confusion. I meant that with an AFI rating to yer PPL, one would be able to start instructing in malaysia. Unlike over here, you would need to be at least a CPL holder to go for the AFI rating. Hope that clears things up. :)

[9M-]

Well, anyone knows of any prospects in the Singapore aviation industry for the ladies? It certainly seems like it's a dead end, esp with SIA not accepting females into their cadet pilot/flight instructor programme. :ugh: Sigh~

Zelin,
Dont give up hope there are many avenues for you beside SIA. Look elsewhere if you really love to fly. Malaysia will be a good place that give more people opportunities in the aviation industry.

Btw, johor flying club is not down, just that they are waiting for their aircrafts to be service back. Also now malaysia DCA has already stopped PPL holders from training as an AFI and one needs a CPL/IR to get into the MFA or LATC to train as AFI. So just clearing things up before you guys/gals get all excited. It is a sad thing but no choice DCA is having major restructuring.

[cruisercruiser]

Well, anyone knows of any prospects in the Singapore aviation industry for the ladies? It certainly seems like it's a dead end, esp with SIA not accepting females into their cadet pilot/flight instructor programme. :ugh: Sigh~

Hi zelin,

All hopes are not lost if you are keen on flying with SilkAir.

I know an NUS senior (who handed her FYP project down to me after she graduated in 2002) who applied to silkair, got her interview, passed it. She's now flying the A320 as a FO. She was one of 2 girls in the batch of cadets who started training sometime late in 2002. Those were the times when SIA and SilkAir held different recruitment exercises and interviews. Its different now.

I hope I can help by passing you her contact when I get back to singapore in 2007 so that you can ask for advice. Apologies I can't do it now cos I've temporalily suspended my sg starhub account and her number is in my sim card. Meanwhile read up, look around for options and NETWORK! Look up and never give up!

Cheers,

cruiser

[demandpump]

Anyone got any information on LATC or HM Aerospace as they're called now? I checked their website, but was just wondering if anyone had any extra bits to share. Seems like a decent place to learn flying.

Is HM Aerospace in anyway related to MFA? Is the quality of instruction/training/instructors good? Is the license obtained from this school any different (less recognised/more recognised) than MFA? Is it as crowded as MFA? If not, why isn't everybody going there?

Any comments appreciated.

Thanks

[9M-]

Anyone got any information on LATC or HM Aerospace as they're called now? I checked their website, but was just wondering if anyone had any extra bits to share. Seems like a decent place to learn flying.

Is HM Aerospace in anyway related to MFA? Is the quality of instruction/training/instructors good? Is the license obtained from this school any different (less recognised/more recognised) than MFA? Is it as crowded as MFA? If not, why isn't everybody going there?

Any comments appreciated.

Thanks

HM is not related to MFA. They have about 5 instructors. Principal is ex MFA principal. Instructor must hold at least a CPL to be able to instruct. As it has limited instructors and planes, its student intake will definitely not be as much as MFA. All in all a decent place to learn flying with good weather and flying around the island is an experience of a lifetime.

[cruisercruiser]

... I went to FlightSafety Academy in Vero Beach Florida and did my CPL/Multi/IR plus an instructors rating there. You have the option under the J1 visa in the states to continue there for a year as an instructor to build time if you get selected. hope this helps

Hi cochise,

I have explored the option of getting a CPL/IR in FlightSafety Academy in Vero Beach Florida but was quite apprehensive since I am foreigner and will not have rights to work/live in the US. I understand that there is always the option of license conversion to comply with the local authorities anywhere, however I am also exploring ways to gain hours working as a foreigner overseas.

I wonder if you could shed some light on hiring policies in the US to alleviate my pessimism. let me explain:

I would like to quote an example. Friend “A” (fellow SIA reject) recently went to UK for the selection of the British Airways CitiExpress (BACX) approved pilot training program with Flight Training Europe. He passed all 4 phases of the selection and was one of the 12 out of the 300 odd applicants who were offered the scheme. After getting the formal letter of offer and quitting his job in Singapore to make preparations for the Initial UK JAR Class 1 medical, student VISA for training in Spain and arrangements of funding, he received a rude shock. He was told the offer made to him would be withdrawn if he does not have the legal right to work/live in the UK.

Thinking that applying a UK working permit is just an administrative procedure, he went about to look into how he could apply for one. To his disappointment, he was told by the UK Home office that only a UK based employer could do it for him. There is no provision of any kind for him to a apply on his own behalf. Although BACX requires him to have a working permit before the scheme could be offered to him, they are “not able” to apply one for him. He was devastated. He is in the process of looking for another job, and would probably be haunted by the cruel experience for the rest of his life.

The same applies for the australian option: I have already explored this option and have been visiting the Australian immigration website to research into the possibility. (For details please refer to http://www.immi.gov.au/) (http://www.immi.gov.au/)). To those who are familiar with the immigration laws please correct me if I’m wrong. To work in Australia as a skilled person, he has a few choices, to apply for the temporary employer-sponsorship arrangement, or become a permanent resident where he can work after getting his VISA in the “general s killed migration” program or the “employer sponsored migration” program. All of these options would require him to satisfy a set of criteria before the permit would be granted. To a mechanical engineering graduate who has about 2 years of working experience like me, I found the permits quite difficult to get. It would be easier for a student who has studied for at least 2 years in an australian registered institution to apply for one ( because he would have more points to apply for the PR which allows him to work), or get an australian employer to get you into one of the “employer sponsored” program. As to whether the employer is willing to do it for the prospective foreigner employee, I am aware that there is an abundance of australian CPL/IR holders waiting around for any kind of bush jobs and employers would not go through the hassle of applying a work permit for a foreigner.

The above 2 examples kind of gave me the idea that taking a license in the US/Europe/Aus and working there isn't quite as straight forward as it seems because of work permits issues. And would getting the J1 visa in the states to continue there for a year as an instructor help much in clocking the required hours? 1 year seems to short a time to get the required hours.


Any replies or comments are welcomed.

cruiser.

[9M-]

Hi cochise,

I have explored the option of getting a CPL/IR in FlightSafety Academy in Vero Beach Florida but was quite apprehensive since I am foreigner and will not have rights to work/live in the US. I understand that there is always the option of license conversion to comply with the local authorities anywhere, however I am also exploring ways to gain hours working as a foreigner overseas.

I wonder if you could shed some light on hiring policies in the US to alleviate my pessimism. let me explain:

I would like to quote an example. Friend “A” (fellow SIA reject) recently went to UK for the selection of the British Airways CitiExpress (BACX) approved pilot training program with Flight Training Europe. He passed all 4 phases of the selection and was one of the 12 out of the 300 odd applicants who were offered the scheme. After getting the formal letter of offer and quitting his job in Singapore to make preparations for the Initial UK JAR Class 1 medical, student VISA for training in Spain and arrangements of funding, he received a rude shock. He was told the offer made to him would be withdrawn if he does not have the legal right to work/live in the UK.

Thinking that applying a UK working permit is just an administrative procedure, he went about to look into how he could apply for one. To his disappointment, he was told by the UK Home office that only a UK based employer could do it for him. There is no provision of any kind for him to a apply on his own behalf. Although BACX requires him to have a working permit before the scheme could be offered to him, they are “not able” to apply one for him. He was devastated. He is in the process of looking for another job, and would probably be haunted by the cruel experience for the rest of his life.

The same applies for the australian option: I have already explored this option and have been visiting the Australian immigration website to research into the possibility. (For details please refer to http://www.immi.gov.au/) (http://www.immi.gov.au/)). To those who are familiar with the immigration laws please correct me if I’m wrong. To work in Australia as a skilled person, he has a few choices, to apply for the temporary employer-sponsorship arrangement, or become a permanent resident where he can work after getting his VISA in the “general s killed migration” program or the “employer sponsored migration” program. All of these options would require him to satisfy a set of criteria before the permit would be granted. To a mechanical engineering graduate who has about 2 years of working experience like me, I found the permits quite difficult to get. It would be easier for a student who has studied for at least 2 years in an australian registered institution to apply for one ( because he would have more points to apply for the PR which allows him to work), or get an australian employer to get you into one of the “employer sponsored” program. As to whether the employer is willing to do it for the prospective foreigner employee, I am aware that there is an abundance of australian CPL/IR holders waiting around for any kind of bush jobs and employers would not go through the hassle of applying a work permit for a foreigner.

The above 2 examples kind of gave me the idea that taking a license in the US/Europe/Aus and working there isn't quite as straight forward as it seems because of work permits issues. And would getting the J1 visa in the states to continue there for a year as an instructor help much in clocking the required hours? 1 year seems to short a time to get the required hours.


Any replies or comments are welcomed.

cruiser.

Agreed Totally. I was studying in Aus for 2 years and even getting a visa is not a simple thing to do . And Even if you have a visa + being a 3nd citizen etc...and so luckily one of the flying school is willing to take you in as an instructor...look at the abundance of instructors there...one flying school can have 10-20 instructors and how many students do they have? Not many...and most flying schools give their student commission based. If one month you fly 5 times, 5x AUS50 , you will earn roughly AUS250/ month. Sounds like good money eh? Best thing is you only clock 5 hours a month too :)

My advise for prospective instructors is, do it in malaysia, malaysia welcomes singaporeans much more than you would expect. Also there are real shortages of instructors in malaysia and if you can be one, clocking 60-80 hours a month is a really realistic thing to get.

[demandpump]

HM is not related to MFA. They have about 5 instructors. Principal is ex MFA principal. Instructor must hold at least a CPL to be able to instruct. As it has limited instructors and planes, its student intake will definitely not be as much as MFA. All in all a decent place to learn flying with good weather and flying around the island is an experience of a lifetime.

Thanks for the info 9M-. Do you know the history of the place? When it started? Who owns it. Is it government funded? What happened to the original LATC?

Also, do you know how I can contact them? None of their email addresses are working. And the "submit" button on their enquiries page doesn't seem to be working as well.


Also there are real shortages of instructors in malaysia and if you can be one, clocking 60-80 hours a month is a really realistic thing to get.

If there are not enough instructors, wouldn't it be easy to hire new foreign ones? I'm sure there would be many instructors in Australia who would meet the hour requirements for license conversion?

[9M-]

Thanks for the info 9M-. Do you know the history of the place? When it started? Who owns it. Is it government funded? What happened to the original LATC?

Also, do you know how I can contact them? None of their email addresses are working. And the "submit" button on their enquiries page doesn't seem to be working as well.

If there are not enough instructors, wouldn't it be easy to hire new foreign ones? I'm sure there would be many instructors in Australia who would meet the hour requirements for license conversion?

HM aerospace used to be LATC nothing had changed just that they change the name. Company is still the same. HM SDN BHD is a malaysian company who deals not only in aviation but in shipping lines as well. The school was around for a few years now but only started actively in the last year. Government funded i dont think so but MAS and airasia recognised them and send their cadets to them for training.

I will try to get the contact for you. i have 2 students who are waiting to get in there.

Hiring foreign instructors are easy. The only thing is they come for 2 years then they will go after the contract ends. Therefore malaysian schools prefer to employ their own people which are so rare. Next better choice people nearby like singapore, indonesia etc.

[cruisercruiser]

Hi,
Instructors are in HUGH demand now in malaysia. DCA had just come up with new rules making training for Assistant Flying Instructor difficult. If you can become an instructor, looking for a club to teach will not be a problem. In another word flying clubs will grab you like gold.

The catch is, flying clubs in malaysia pay instructor by hourly commission. Meaning no flight = no money. So if you want a more stable income, joining MFA or LATC will provide you with fix pay irregardless of how many flights you do a month. Anyway getting employed in MFA is not difficult provided you got the basic qualification they are looking for. You just need a CPL and an instructor rating, they will take u in. MFA consist of 90% foreign instructors btw.

As for flying clubs in johor, there are currently 3. Fras flying club, Elite flying club and Johor flying club. Hope this informations help and if you need anymore info you can always ask again.

Hi 9M-,

Great Info! Do you by any chance have an idea of how much MFA or LATC pay their instructors?

Got some info on SYFC pay:S$ 2100 gross per month during license conversion if applicable, increasing to S$2800 gross per month upon commencement of AFI Course. Upon appointment as a quialified AFI, you will receive S$3100 gross per month rising to S$3600 gross per month upon upgrade to a full instructor rating. Salary for full instructors range from S$3600 to S$7700 per month.

The ad which came out some years ago further adds "willing to be trained as a CAAS flying instructor if without a CAAS instructor rating"

Cheers,

[9M-]

Hi 9M-,

Great Info! Do you by any chance have an idea of how much MFA or LATC pay their instructors?

Got some info on SYFC pay:S$ 2100 gross per month during license conversion if applicable, increasing to S$2800 gross per month upon commencement of AFI Course. Upon appointment as a quialified AFI, you will receive S$3100 gross per month rising to S$3600 gross per month upon upgrade to a full instructor rating. Salary for full instructors range from S$3600 to S$7700 per month.

The ad which came out some years ago further adds "willing to be trained as a CAAS flying instructor if without a CAAS instructor rating"

Cheers,

MFA pays about 6000rm to 8000rm depending if you have IR and if you are AFI or QFI. I know SYFC pays quite well but getting in is a big problem for non ex air force. Although i know of this chap who got his licence in aus came back and teaches as a ground instructor in SYFC, now they are sponsoring him to do his instructor rating. :)

[demandpump]

Got some info on SYFC pay:S$ 2100 gross per month during license conversion if applicable, increasing to S$2800 gross per month upon commencement of AFI Course. Upon appointment as a quialified AFI, you will receive S$3100 gross per month rising to S$3600 gross per month upon upgrade to a full instructor rating. Salary for full instructors range from S$3600 to S$7700 per month.

Wow! The AFI salary alone easily tops my current pay:{
I wonder if they have flying allowance on top of that as well?

[zelin]

Many thanks 9M and Cruiser for your words of encouragement. Cruiser, i would certainly love to fly with silkair if there's a chance in the future and Thanks in advance for the contact.:ok:

I'm trying to figure out how i can do a CPL course in malaysia...wondering if there's any part-time CPL courses ard? I can't quit my job, need whatever miserable pay i'm getting to save to fly...hehz.

I have another question: What's the CPL flying syallabus like? And the requirements? I've tried doing a search on PPRuNe, but there seems to be hardly any post on the flying syllabus itself.

[fhchiang]

i don't think u can do CPL part time.....

you will take forever to finish...

FOR CPL.... it's full-time.. the only part time available is PPL.

If i remember correctly, SIA did specifically advertised for female cadets sometime ago... am i right?

[zelin]

i don't think u can do CPL part time.....

you will take forever to finish...

FOR CPL.... it's full-time.. the only part time available is PPL.

If i remember correctly, SIA did specifically advertised for female cadets sometime ago... am i right?

Thanks for the enlightenment.

Errrm...not that i recall. I've never seen such advert. Where did u see it?

[fhchiang]

i'm not that sure..

but i remember during that time..

MALE Cadets and FEmale Cadets have seperate interviews........

MALE will compete with MALE..

Female cadets will only compete with female cadets...

If it's not SIA, then it might be MAS, or AA

[9M-]

Many thanks 9M and Cruiser for your words of encouragement. Cruiser, i would certainly love to fly with silkair if there's a chance in the future and Thanks in advance for the contact.:ok:

I'm trying to figure out how i can do a CPL course in malaysia...wondering if there's any part-time CPL courses ard? I can't quit my job, need whatever miserable pay i'm getting to save to fly...hehz.

I have another question: What's the CPL flying syallabus like? And the requirements? I've tried doing a search on PPRuNe, but there seems to be hardly any post on the flying syllabus itself.

YES. Who says you cant do CPL part time? U can even do ATPL partime.:) In singapore you cant. In malaysia yes you can. The catch is you need to clock personally 500 hours total. Then u will be eligible to take all the UKCAA papers. After u had pass your papers, all u need is a simple flight test and you will have your CPL with a frozen ATPL. :) Sounds easy eh? Glad to be able to help.

[fhchiang]

hoho..

didn't know that...

thanks for the info...


anyway..

niner-mike, are u a member or any flying club? or a pilot?

[9M-]

hoho..

didn't know that...

thanks for the info...


anyway..

niner-mike, are u a member or any flying club? or a pilot?

Yup i fly in malaysia johor and i love it. Been to many places in malaysia such as subang, malacca, ipoh, penang, langkawi, mersing, simpang and also seletar.

Flying is really a nice and wonderful thing to be doing. Sometimes i really wonder how come i dont get to read thread from people asking hows the feeling of flying like and how to improve the skill of flying. Rather i hear so many people only interested in getting into airlines etc. Really losing the real essence of flying. Sad but true...:bored:

[demandpump]

What's the CPL flying syallabus like? And the requirements? I've tried doing a search on PPRuNe, but there seems to be hardly any post on the flying syllabus itself.

Hi zelin, here's a link to the MFA CPL/IR prospectus which would answer most of your questions.
http://www.mfa.edu.my/MFA-17-10-2005-CPLIR-or-IntegratedDirect-2006.pdf (http://www.mfa.edu.my/MFA-17-10-2005-CPLIR-or-IntegratedDirect-2006.pdf).

You may also like to check out hm aerospace's (LATC) website. But not very informative. A lot of the links not working properly.
http://www.hmaerospace.com/


Yup i fly in malaysia johor and i love it. Been to many places in malaysia such as subang, malacca, ipoh, penang, langkawi, mersing, simpang and also seletar.

Hi 9M-, are you Singaporean? Did you fund your own training in Malaysia? If so, which school did you train? How did you get into your current job? Thanks in advance.

[9M-]

Hi 9M-, are you Singaporean? Did you fund your own training in Malaysia? If so, which school did you train? How did you get into your current job? Thanks in advance.[/quote]

Yup pure singaporean. I pay my own money to fly in malaysia. what current job r u referring to?

[cruisercruiser]

Hi 9M-, are you Singaporean? Did you fund your own training in Malaysia? If so, which school did you train? How did you get into your current job? Thanks in advance.

Yup pure singaporean. I pay my own money to fly in malaysia. what current job r u referring to?[/quote]

Hi there,

Read in this thread that you currently have 2 PPL students? So I assume you are an instructor with a malaysian flying club? Care to share your route to success with us? Like how you came out with the huge amount of cash required, how you got your first flying job and how you reached your current position, etc. It is definitely encouraging to know of a fellow singaporean who did it the hard way.

Cheers

[MasterD]

Hi all
I have just finished my masters degree in Aeronautical engineering and have been working night and day to save the money I need 2 fly. I have saved £30000 which is still not enough 2 learn 2 fly in London (UK). I have researched flying in Canada and US and it comes to roughly £40000 inc accommodation. I have written to a few schools in Malaysia/Singapore. MFA said its full, I have also tried phoning and writing to HM aerospace and Asia Pacific flight training but got northing.
If u could give me some more good schools I could contact it would be great, I have had a few flights in England and love it I could not think of a better place to be then in the air
Please help me fulfil my DREAM
Thanks in advance

[9M-]

Hi there,

Read in this thread that you currently have 2 PPL students? So I assume you are an instructor with a malaysian flying club? Care to share your route to success with us? Like how you came out with the huge amount of cash required, how you got your first flying job and how you reached your current position, etc. It is definitely encouraging to know of a fellow singaporean who did it the hard way.

Cheers

Ok...didnt know i leak out my job that way heh. Anyway yes i am an instructor with a malaysian flying club but i will not say which one. For me the journey is a tough one. I started learning to fly while in Aus doing my degree. Got my PPL there and came back to singapore. Knew working as deskjob is not my ideal working life. Also i just cannot get over flying therefore i seek out revenues that can help me move on in this line.

Search around singapore and dont really see much prospect. Therefore i went to malaysia to learn flying. Converted my license to a malaysian one and from there began to clock hours by flying around malaysia. (To be an afi one needs 150hours solo time.)

Thereafter went to KL for 3 months to do my instructor rating course. Life in KL is tough...bad weather, bad living condition due to cheap motel..sigh

After i got my instructor rating began to teach. I must say teaching something u love is really a nice thing to be doing. The sense of satisfaction when students go for their first solo or pass their ppl is sensational. Anyway after accumulating 500 total hours, i am eligible to take the UkCAA papers and i took a total of about 21 papers technical and navagations. Did a CPL flight test and got a CPL. Afterwhich i continue to do the ATPL papers which are actually the same as the CPL papers. Just doing it another time and got my frozen ATPL.

So thats my life so far..wanted to give up many times due to many obstacles but there is just one thing that kept me goin :- the passion of flying. Cheers

[demandpump]

Ok...didnt know i leak out my job that way heh. Anyway yes i am an instructor with a malaysian flying club but i will not say which one. For me the journey is a tough one. I started learning to fly while in Aus doing my degree. Got my PPL there and came back to singapore. Knew working as deskjob is not my ideal working life. Also i just cannot get over flying therefore i seek out revenues that can help me move on in this line.

Search around singapore and dont really see much prospect. Therefore i went to malaysia to learn flying. Converted my license to a malaysian one and from there began to clock hours by flying around malaysia. (To be an afi one needs 150hours solo time.)

Thereafter went to KL for 3 months to do my instructor rating course. Life in KL is tough...bad weather, bad living condition due to cheap motel..sigh

After i got my instructor rating began to teach. I must say teaching something u love is really a nice thing to be doing. The sense of satisfaction when students go for their first solo or pass their ppl is sensational. Anyway after accumulating 500 total hours, i am eligible to take the UkCAA papers and i took a total of about 21 papers technical and navagations. Did a CPL flight test and got a CPL. Afterwhich i continue to do the ATPL papers which are actually the same as the CPL papers. Just doing it another time and got my frozen ATPL.

So thats my life so far..wanted to give up many times due to many obstacles but there is just one thing that kept me goin :- the passion of flying. Cheers

Wow! You are one really determined guy (or gal?? :D). So you starting instructing while you were still a PPL holder? And you paid your way through the 150 hrs solo time before qualifying for AFI training?

I'm very similar to you. Also did my degree in Aus, came back and been working for 2 years. Absolutely no interest whatsoever in my job :(. Always thinking of flying.

What are your plans? Do you intend to continue instructing for long term? Or do you wish to move on to the airlines? Do you know of other Singaporeans who are also instructors in Malaysia or perhaps have moved on to the airlines?

Have you tried applying to any of the Malaysian operators like Air Asia, Berjaya Air or Transmile?

Thanks!

[fhchiang]

ya 9m-...........


if u don't mind the sub-par conditions(as many forumers claim) at transmile... u can jump straight into the right hand seat..

they are recruiting people.. even 200 hours pilots are considered.

1st, once your application is accepted, they will require you to go for a JEt transition training. after the training, if your performance is sastisfactory, you will sign a bond with them for TR and start working.

[9M-]

Wow! You are one really determined guy (or gal?? :D). So you starting instructing while you were still a PPL holder? And you paid your way through the 150 hrs solo time before qualifying for AFI training?

I'm very similar to you. Also did my degree in Aus, came back and been working for 2 years. Absolutely no interest whatsoever in my job :(. Always thinking of flying.

What are your plans? Do you intend to continue instructing for long term? Or do you wish to move on to the airlines? Do you know of other Singaporeans who are also instructors in Malaysia or perhaps have moved on to the airlines?

Have you tried applying to any of the Malaysian operators like Air Asia, Berjaya Air or Transmile?

Thanks!

Yup sponsored myself in the clocking of hours. But its well paid off after one become an instructor. The money will easily be recouped. My plan now is just to instruct. Yup there are a few instructors that i know are from singapore. There are also ex singapore air force pilot teaching as well.:)

[zelin]

Thanks demandpump and once again, 9M for the info! :ok:
9M, u mentioned in one of your previous post that flying clubs in malaysia pay instructors mostly on a commission basis...if that's so, how is it "well paid off after one become an instructor"? esp after all that vast amt spent to clock all the hours needed... :confused: *gulpz*

[9M-]

Thanks demandpump and once again, 9M for the info! :ok:
9M, u mentioned in one of your previous post that flying clubs in malaysia pay instructors mostly on a commission basis...if that's so, how is it "well paid off after one become an instructor"? esp after all that vast amt spent to clock all the hours needed... :confused: *gulpz*

Good point u have there zelin. If u think in terms of how much money u take back then it is not that good. If u think in terms of flying hours u earn, then thats alot. Imagine clocking your own hours to 500 how much will that be? 500 x rm340 = rm170000 or sgd $77000.

Now imagine being an instructor u dont have to pay for the hours and $77000 is your pay for about 6 months meaning u earn $77000/6 = $12800 per month. Wow isnt that the pay of Airline captain? heh;)

[zelin]

Aah i see...sounds quite good, and you get to impart your knowledge as well as share your passion with others :D
Well, but there's always bound to be commitments in life that one'll need the physical vitamin M for...heh...(i'm thinking practical)
Just curious to know...how many hours do you typically clock in a mth?

[cruisercruiser]

Good point u have there zelin. If u think in terms of how much money u take back then it is not that good. If u think in terms of flying hours u earn, then thats alot. Imagine clocking your own hours to 500 how much will that be? 500 x rm340 = rm170000 or sgd $77000.

Now imagine being an instructor u dont have to pay for the hours and $77000 is your pay for about 6 months meaning u earn $77000/6 = $12800 per month. Wow isnt that the pay of Airline captain? heh;)

Hi 9M-,

Seems like a great way to clock hours without having to burn a huge hole in the pocket. A few questions:

When you are officially an instructor with the flying club you are currently with, is it still legal to take up miscellaneous jobs like charter flying or other bush flying?

Do people usually "buy" their hours to attain the minimum required for, say a regional, in the event they are not able to get a job as an instructor ? From the way you calculated, it seems like a huge amount to pay from one's own pocket!

Cheers

[9M-]

Aah i see...sounds quite good, and you get to impart your knowledge as well as share your passion with others :D
Well, but there's always bound to be commitments in life that one'll need the physical vitamin M for...heh...(i'm thinking practical)
Just curious to know...how many hours do you typically clock in a mth?

Well actually if u really want to be a fulltime instructor say u work 6 day/wk and from 8am- 6pm, you can clock about 80 hours a month easily. Commission is about rm50/hr so 80 x 50 = rm4000. Thats quite a good pay i must say. One thing bad is if it rains = no money. Other than that its quite good. :)

[9M-]

Hi 9M-,

Seems like a great way to clock hours without having to burn a huge hole in the pocket. A few questions:

When you are officially an instructor with the flying club you are currently with, is it still legal to take up miscellaneous jobs like charter flying or other bush flying?

Do people usually "buy" their hours to attain the minimum required for, say a regional, in the event they are not able to get a job as an instructor ? From the way you calculated, it seems like a huge amount to pay from one's own pocket!

Cheers

Well not much charter flying for light aircraft in malaysia from what i know. Bush flying erm also not much that i can think of. Maybe in australia u have more of that. Well it is legal to fly for other company as long as u tie down with the flying clubs u r working for.

Well depends on what u want. U can buy the hours and burn a hugh hole in your pocket and clock 1500hrs then go into an airline. But is it really worth the money ? What if u dont get into an airline? what r u going to do ? Actually i only got a few advise for people who are interested in a career in flying.

1) Try to get into the SIA cadet pilot scheme.
2) Join Airforce
3) If unable to, (Very RICH) Go to Massey Uni and get the degree + License
4) (Not Very Rich) Be an Instructor and slowly build up your hours then go for license upgrade.
5) (Very Poor) Find a job work for few years and earn enough money then be an instructor.

The above 5 ways are the only route for singaporeans that i can think of since 4 years ago till now for prospective pilot wanabee. good luck !:D

[cruisercruiser]

Well not much charter flying for light aircraft in malaysia from what i know. Bush flying erm also not much that i can think of. Maybe in australia u have more of that. Well it is legal to fly for other company as long as u tie down with the flying clubs u r working for.

Well depends on what u want. U can buy the hours and burn a hugh hole in your pocket and clock 1500hrs then go into an airline. But is it really worth the money ? What if u dont get into an airline? what r u going to do ? Actually i only got a few advise for people who are interested in a career in flying.

1) Try to get into the SIA cadet pilot scheme.
2) Join Airforce
3) If unable to, (Very RICH) Go to Massey Uni and get the degree + License
4) (Not Very Rich) Be an Instructor and slowly build up your hours then go for license upgrade.
5) (Very Poor) Find a job work for few years and earn enough money then be an instructor.

The above 5 ways are the only route for singaporeans that i can think of since 4 years ago till now for prospective pilot wanabee. good luck !:D

Thanks again 9M-, this thread's been very informative so far thanks to you more experienced guys. I've tried the first 2 options and is too poor to go for 3). I think 4) is already out of question since you guys have mentioned that Malaysia DCA rules are soon to change to stop instructor-rated PPL holders from instructing.

Currently in the process of doing 5).:)

Well...another far-fetched option: Get a wife/husband of another nationality (UAE, Hong Konger, Malaysian etc) convert nationality and apply for the respective airlines! Sounds absurd but read from another thread in pprune that a foreigner with a singaporean wife is trying to get his PRship to apply for SQ.

Great info shared to date!

[PaTriotEeK]

Hello everyone, I'm one of those who failed the final interview for SIA's cpp. Like everyone here, I am passionate about flying and currently in the process of attaining my ME/CIR and Atpls in Australia. I must say, this is a risky journey to take, I know that by getting all these licenses won't guarentee me a job. I believe that if I or anyone else keep chugging at it, we will get there. I'm currently working odd jobs in Australia just to fund my flying, it's tough, I don't even have a permanent place to stay. Anyway, it's good to see that there's a post for us self-sponsored guys, for those of you who's made it, well done, am very happy for you guys. Anyway, I would like to ask about being an instructor in malaysia, would they accept someone with a foreign instructor rating? I think I'd better stop here before Thermal Image blasts me again...would love to hear from you guys out there..:}

[9M-]

Hello everyone, I'm one of those who failed the final interview for SIA's cpp. Like everyone here, I am passionate about flying and currently in the process of attaining my ME/CIR and Atpls in Australia. I must say, this is a risky journey to take, I know that by getting all these licenses won't guarentee me a job. I believe that if I or anyone else keep chugging at it, we will get there. I'm currently working odd jobs in Australia just to fund my flying, it's tough, I don't even have a permanent place to stay. Anyway, it's good to see that there's a post for us self-sponsored guys, for those of you who's made it, well done, am very happy for you guys. Anyway, I would like to ask about being an instructor in malaysia, would they accept someone with a foreign instructor rating? I think I'd better stop here before Thermal Image blasts me again...would love to hear from you guys out there..:}

Well if you are thinking of getting instructor rating in aus then come back to malaysia to teach i would suggest not doing that as u will still need to do a flight test here in malaysia if u want to convert. DCA works on a case by case system so u will still need to get permissions from them. Try to teach in aus? better pay i would say. Anyway where do u fly in aus? i flew in archerfield brisbane last time :D

[PaTriotEeK]

Hiho niner mike, thanks for replying, btw im new here. Anyway, thanks for the advice, really appreciate it. Im currently doing it at parafield, adelaide, quite good weather there, winter's coming, so would be good for ifr training. From what I read on the previous posts, you did your ppl there and went to malaysia after that? your route sounds better aye! I would love to work in Malaysia, probably you could have some insights about it? I emailed DCAM last month about conversion of my license to a Malaysian one and they approved of it, only if I underwent my training with MFA. I weighed in the costs and decided to go back to australia instead. Glad to hear you are doing well in Malaysia. You go Bro!

[Majulah]

Well...another far-fetched option: Get a wife/husband of another nationality (UAE, Hong Konger, Malaysian etc) convert nationality and apply for the respective airlines! Sounds absurd but read from another thread in pprune that a foreigner with a singaporean wife is trying to get his PRship to apply for SQ.

doublecruiser,

that foreigner is me. and i did not get a singaporean wife to join SQ. i will try to join SQ because i have a singaporean wife. nuance. when i first was sent to SIN for work i didnt want to go there. it all happened by coincidence.

good luck to everyone!

[Thermal Image]

doublecruiser,

that foreigner is me. and i did not get a singaporean wife to join SQ. i will try to join SQ because i have a singaporean wife. nuance. when i first was sent to SIN for work i didnt want to go there. it all happened by coincidence.

good luck to everyone!

I don't think he meant that you were scheming or crafty.

The facts in the sequence and timing of events will prove that what you did and are doing, are not part of a convenient plan to slide into SIA by dishonourable means.

[cruisercruiser]

doublecruiser,

that foreigner is me. and i did not get a singaporean wife to join SQ. i will try to join SQ because i have a singaporean wife. nuance. when i first was sent to SIN for work i didnt want to go there. it all happened by coincidence.

good luck to everyone!

Hi Majulah,

Sincere apologies if I had sounded offensive. In no way was I trying to imply that you married your wife because of any other agenda.:)

You might have read that I have been exploring as many options as I could to help myself and others who are unfortunate, or deemed not good enough to join SIA, to work ourselves up from scratch. It so happened that I recalled your post and the possibility came to my mind.

Allow me to ask you to share your path to success in this thread? I am aware that you hold a JAA ATPL with 1500 hours. Which flying school in europe did you train in? How did you manage to clock your hours?

I learnt from a brit friend currently training in Spain that his fees will amount to about 60,000 pounds excluding living expenses. He had to take a loan from HSBC by mortgaging his family's house. I have spoken to several flying instructors in Derby and all told me flying training in the UK is one of the most expensive in the world!

Any comments welcome!

By the way thanks Thermal Image!

Cheers,

cruiser

[MasterD]

The Uk is the most expensive place 2 train i am looking to learn to fly in Malaysia or Singapore i have been working hard to save the money and finally after 3 years of workin 7 days a week i can start looking for places to learn

[cruisercruiser]

Hi dudes,

Check this out: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=212985&highlight=employment+Australia.

Seems like there is a huge supply of CPL holders but a massive shortage of experienced pilots.

Cheers

[9M-]

Hi dudes,

Check this out: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=212985&highlight=employment+Australia.

Seems like there is a huge supply of CPL holders but a massive shortage of experienced pilots.

Cheers

Hi,
Not really surprised to hear that actually. With Ga so common in a country like aus, many people will have the opportunity to learn flying. Getting their CPL is like a routine for pilot wanabe. The difficult part is, after you got your license, which company is going to give you the chance for a jet upgrade? With advertisment going for people with 1500 hours and Jet experience needed, how as a young and innocent CPL holder with 200 hours going to cling to that job? Thats why there is a bottleneck senario where more and more wanabees are stuck at the CPL (200hrs) level and not many with experience.

It just happen so in malaysia and singapore, GA is still like a growing industry, not as big as aus, thats why there are still quite good opportunity to explore even with low hours..so better work hard, this scene might not be so in a couple of years time i feel.

[|Ken|]

Agreed Totally. I was studying in Aus for 2 years and even getting a visa is not a simple thing to do . And Even if you have a visa + being a 3nd citizen etc...and so luckily one of the flying school is willing to take you in as an instructor...look at the abundance of instructors there...one flying school can have 10-20 instructors and how many students do they have? Not many...and most flying schools give their student commission based. If one month you fly 5 times, 5x AUS50 , you will earn roughly AUS250/ month. Sounds like good money eh? Best thing is you only clock 5 hours a month too :)
My advise for prospective instructors is, do it in malaysia, malaysia welcomes singaporeans much more than you would expect. Also there are real shortages of instructors in malaysia and if you can be one, clocking 60-80 hours a month is a really realistic thing to get.

Hello 9M-. I wan plan to study CPL/H overseas. What is the job prospect for a helicopter pilot in Malaysia? Is there any school looking for flight instructor?

[Left Wing]

yes all over asia there is a shortage of helio pilots

[Majulah]

Hi Majulah,

Sincere apologies if I had sounded offensive. In no way was I trying to imply that you married your wife because of any other agenda.:)

You might have read that I have been exploring as many options as I could to help myself and others who are unfortunate, or deemed not good enough to join SIA, to work ourselves up from scratch. It so happened that I recalled your post and the possibility came to my mind.

Allow me to ask you to share your path to success in this thread? I am aware that you hold a JAA ATPL with 1500 hours. Which flying school in europe did you train in? How did you manage to clock your hours?

I learnt from a brit friend currently training in Spain that his fees will amount to about 60,000 pounds excluding living expenses. He had to take a loan from HSBC by mortgaging his family's house. I have spoken to several flying instructors in Derby and all told me flying training in the UK is one of the most expensive in the world!

Any comments welcome!

By the way thanks Thermal Image!

Cheers,

cruiser

cruisercruiser,

no problem sir, i wasnt offended. i just wanted to make that point clear straight away. with the amount of ang moh expats with strange attitudes in sin it's not always easy, maybe i am to sensible to that. but you know what i mean i suppose.

well, my "path to success"...
did my training at a flag carrier's FTO/TRTO. airline went bust. now, i'm clocking hours with a regional carrier... arranging for my SPR this summer. as soon as i hit the 1500 hrs (under european licensing, JAR, with 1500hrs you are a full ATPL-holder) i will apply for the SQ cadet scheme, hoping to being allowed to skip most training phases to save time. if i dont fail the interviews that is.

i have no ideas about training costs in the UK, sorry i really cant help there...

yes, i also sometimes envy those young fellows who get their training fully paid by a legacy carrier and are assured a RH seat in minimum 320 or 737 size plane. i almost was one of them, but the airline disappeared. maybe now i am doing a bit of the "hard way". I hope i'll be luckier next time, if i make it to SQ i hope they dont go kapputz....

Greetings!

[|Ken|]

Hi dudes,

I've read the threads here about going to MFA for a CPL/IR. I've got a friend who drove all the way up north on a weekend to enquire about signing up. He was told that it's fully booked til April 2007 and was told to leave his name with 100+ other private students and they'll give him a call when there's a vacancy. Apparently AirAsia and MAS have been flooding MFA with students that they are operating at capacity. It seems like aviation in this region is really booming!

A bit of info about myself: I'm a SIA final round reject and like most of you here, am passionate about flying and am saving hard for the course up north or australia. I was told by some cadet friends who were ex classmates that they do not entertain 2nd round rejects like myself. So I had to look for alternative like those I've mentioned. I'm 28 this year and will need a few more years of saving before I can afford the fees. I guess by the time I get a CPL/IR I'll reach an old 32 or 33! I'll still presevere though.

I know an instructor in SYFC who advised me to seek a "written blessing" from the GM of SYFC that they'll employ me after I get my CPL/IR from MFA, before I embark on the course. I haven't done so since I'm still short of about 2/3 of the sum required! Any thoughts on the "written blessing" and clocking hours as a AQFI/QFI in SYFC? Any comments positive or negative most welcomed!

I would like to take this opportunity to look around for people who have flung the final SQ interview and yet got in some years later, either through the usual cadet way or through the long hard way of clocking hours as an instructor or bush piloting. I know there might be none! However I still harbour hopes that SQ will one fine day change their recruitment policy.

Hope to hear from you guys really soon!

cruiser

How to write a "written blessing" letter to the operator? Can anyone give me an example please?

[cruisercruiser]

Hi,

I have not gotten any "written blessings" and like many of you out there wonder if it is really a possiblity. The instructor I spoke to at SYFC mentioned that I should contact the GM over the phone to arrange an appointment for this purpose. Like I mentioned, I haven't done so cos I've no where near the amount needed for the CPL/IR course in MFA.

In my opinion, it is possible to talk to someone like the GM about the plan but as to whether he will agree to it and even write a letter to gaurantee your employment with the club, is difficult. Thinking of it from the employers' point of view, no one will ever promise employment before he even knows whether you are capable of passing the course. Even cadets from SIA get chopped in their line training. And thats after the company has paid loads for his training. One such example is currently in the flying club training to be an instructor.

I'd say go try to get an agreement with the terms and conditions. If that doesn't work out, try opportunities in other countries with a license in hand. There are loads of info about flying inmalaysia and aus in the forum. Of course the odds must be weighed and risks assessed. As for myself, a single man with few commitments and a lot of desire to fly, this route is one that I'll seriously consider taking.

cruiser

[9M-]

Hi,

I have not gotten any "written blessings" and like many of you out there wonder if it is really a possiblity. The instructor I spoke to at SYFC mentioned that I should contact the GM over the phone to arrange an appointment for this purpose. Like I mentioned, I haven't done so cos I've no where near the amount needed for the CPL/IR course in MFA.

In my opinion, it is possible to talk to someone like the GM about the plan but as to whether he will agree to it and even write a letter to gaurantee your employment with the club, is difficult. Thinking of it from the employers' point of view, no one will ever promise employment before he even knows whether you are capable of passing the course. Even cadets from SIA get chopped in their line training. And thats after the company has paid loads for his training. One such example is currently in the flying club training to be an instructor.

I'd say go try to get an agreement with the terms and conditions. If that doesn't work out, try opportunities in other countries with a license in hand. There are loads of info about flying inmalaysia and aus in the forum. Of course the odds must be weighed and risks assessed. As for myself, a single man with few commitments and a lot of desire to fly, this route is one that I'll seriously consider taking.

cruiser

Well to get a written or verbal promise is really not possible like what cruiser had said. Which company would want to do that unless that company is really short of instructors, then they will give you a promise like MFA. Not going to happen in YFC with so many ex air force instructors waiting on their standby list.

Anyway why want to teach in YFC? Teaching effects of controls, S & L for a few years without navigation is really going to be a pain in the neck i would say. Thats why i prefer to teach in malaysia where i have more freedom and exposure.

[ilov3s3lina]

niner mike..

in malaysia...

RSFC practices a system... every student will be alocated not mroe than 2 instructor.

these 2 instructor is responsible for ALL the students training including Ground school and flight training. so basically, the instructor will coach the student all the way until the student gets PPL.

[9M-]

niner mike..

in malaysia...

RSFC practices a system... every student will be alocated not mroe than 2 instructor.

these 2 instructor is responsible for ALL the students training including Ground school and flight training. so basically, the instructor will coach the student all the way until the student gets PPL.

Hi,
U mean royal selangor flying club? becos republic of singapore flying club has the same initial as well.

Well thats a good system if one is on leave, the other one can take over. Anyway are u learning to fly there or r u working there?

[ilov3s3lina]

nah.. i'm just a member

[9M-]

nah.. i'm just a member

I c...so whos yr instructor? Does allan and david still teaches there? I love sungei besi...flew there when i was doing my training..flew in LPC, AVR...clubhouse is cosy too :) Catch up with u again soon ok.

Btw do u know Khoo?

[ilov3s3lina]

wah 9m- you seem to be familiar..

i know the people you mention.. but i don't know tjhem well.. after all.. it's a small club.....

allan is there..... david-with glasses ah?? both is there..

i am suppose to train there..... but i quit because i'm waiting for a place in flight school.... .. i will fly there when i graduate from flight school.

[9M-]

this thread seems dead..so thought of livening up again....:D

So do we have anymore self sponsored stories out there? I believe there are more people so come on and share your stories with us...so that we can choose a better path too. Cheers!:)

[demandpump]

Just had a chat with the CFI at HMA. He told me there was one Singaporean who graduated from there recently and is now working on his 737 qualification for AirAsia. So that sounds like good news. Apparently its not that difficult for Singaporeans to find a job in Malaysia, as we're not really considered "expats".

But there's bad news too. He told me that PPL holders will not have flying hours credited if you want to pursue the course at HMA, or even MFA. You have to start all over. They used to credit hours to PPL holders but found that their standard was so bad that it was best to start them from scratch.

The current course fee is around RM170K++ including accomodation, food, study material and everything else.

So, any Singaporeans "quietly" flying in AirAsia? Do share with us your story.

[9M-]

Just had a chat with the CFI at HMA. He told me there was one Singaporean who graduated from there recently and is now working on his 737 qualification for AirAsia. So that sounds like good news. Apparently its not that difficult for Singaporeans to find a job in Malaysia, as we're not really considered "expats".

But there's bad news too. He told me that PPL holders will not have flying hours credited if you want to pursue the course at HMA, or even MFA. You have to start all over. They used to credit hours to PPL holders but found that their standard was so bad that it was best to start them from scratch.

The current course fee is around RM170K++ including accomodation, food, study material and everything else.

So, any Singaporeans "quietly" flying in AirAsia? Do share with us your story.

Yar thats real good news. But now DCA do not allow expat from getting into airasia unless he is a captain. So there might be some validity issue to that news. Flying hours wise from flying clubs are still subjected to DCA one to one decision. So might not be the case. Anyway if u have a PPL, then join the flying school u will go straight to CPL training wouldnt that be a reduction of hours in another word?

As for anymore singaporean CPL holders, well looks like not much more? Come on..!

[lorads]

HI 9M-,

sent you PM b4 but no reply? did you get it?

btw now airspace close so totally no flying? will be at Senai tmr see if can do some flying.

[9M-]

HI 9M-,

sent you PM b4 but no reply? did you get it?

btw now airspace close so totally no flying? will be at Senai tmr see if can do some flying.

Did not get yr msg. Can u send again? Anyway hard to fly till 4th of may. Due to bersama shield ex. U can still try but it is troublesome..must submit flight plan get approval from the subang side and all the wait might get u nothing. Anyway i am off for this weekend cancelled all flights.

[sgrookie]

Hmm... I have an Australian CPL but apparently its not recognised in CAAS eyes. Anyway, I've flown in Australia & tried to sign up for SIA. I succeeded. However, I guess like so many other people in the thread, if SIA didn't employ me, all is not lost. Just try to get a job flying as a Flight Instructor. I guess for Australia, I can probably get employment in the smaller towns, but not in the 5 major cities where GAAP aerodromes are as its pretty over-saturated with pilots. I've read somewhere in this forum that MFA tried to hire an Australian instructor? I'm not sure but I believe that if one really wants to fly, where one fly doesn't really matter as the job will take one all over the place anyway. That was my resolution when I first took the self-sponsored course. I didn't really contribute the story earlier as I know that I'm really lucky as I need not go through the extreme hard work & sacrifice that other countries' pilots put themselves to.

[9M-]

Hmm... I have an Australian CPL but apparently its not recognised in CAAS eyes. Anyway, I've flown in Australia & tried to sign up for SIA. I succeeded. However, I guess like so many other people in the thread, if SIA didn't employ me, all is not lost. Just try to get a job flying as a Flight Instructor. I guess for Australia, I can probably get employment in the smaller towns, but not in the 5 major cities where GAAP aerodromes are as its pretty over-saturated with pilots. I've read somewhere in this forum that MFA tried to hire an Australian instructor? I'm not sure but I believe that if one really wants to fly, where one fly doesn't really matter as the job will take one all over the place anyway. That was my resolution when I first took the self-sponsored course. I didn't really contribute the story earlier as I know that I'm really lucky as I need not go through the extreme hard work & sacrifice that other countries' pilots put themselves to.

Sigh...talking about caas really saddens me. You can get the highest qualifications in flying but if u r not employed by any air operator in singapore, caas will not convert your license. And when u go to the air operator and tell them this problem, they will say they can give u an interview, hire you "BUT" ....u must have a caas license FIRST. What a nice combination of cat and mouse game they are playing :oh: So for anyone who are thinking of getting an oversea license, think again before taking the plunge.

Anyway just for some people's information, if u really want caas to recognise your license after u return from oversea without having to get employed by an air operator first, check out Massey University in New Zealand. They have a MOU with caas :) Cheers!

[sgrookie]

I suppose you're right on that account, Mr 9M-. However, I believe that most people who went to obtain their CPL at their own expense will have a contingency plan in the event that employment in SQ is not possible. That was my mindset when I first went for the course. I guess its really too huge a gamble to take if one pursue one's own license just so that SQ might employ. I've heard of many cases where people who possesses their own licenses got rejected as well. I can't imagine how devastated they will be IF they only want a job at SQ & not anywhere else...

[9M-]

I suppose you're right on that account, Mr 9M-. However, I believe that most people who went to obtain their CPL at their own expense will have a contingency plan in the event that employment in SQ is not possible. That was my mindset when I first went for the course. I guess its really too huge a gamble to take if one pursue one's own license just so that SQ might employ. I've heard of many cases where people who possesses their own licenses got rejected as well. I can't imagine how devastated they will be IF they only want a job at SQ & not anywhere else...

Yes u r right. I have a friend who have gotten his cpl/ir and came back failed the interview and went back to his accounting job till now. Wasted 50k+ for nothing. Like i said earlier, if u have all the qualification from australia and came back to singapore. If SQ rejects u, what r u going to do? Where else can u go? Care to share what u think about this? and i will give u the answer with it.

[sgrookie]

As I was trained in Australia, I guess I can only give comments about flying in Australia, so here goes...

Employment in Australia is generally not possible unless you're a PR there. With respect to most Singaporean's skills, we will be 5 points short of getting a PR as being a commercial pilot counts as a skill BUT if you're willing to move to the smaller towns/cities, the requirements for PR is less stringent.

If you plan to move out of the 5 major cities, namely; Perth, Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne & Adelaide, there will be other small cities like Broome, Darwin (?) or even Tamworth for that matter who might get you a job. Its hard to find a good job with good pay, fair enough but as long as you don't mind what you're flying you'll find work. That much is certain & I've heard rumours (?) that MFA once wanted to hire an Australian instructor so... it might be a lead. I have a coursemate who completed his IR & is now flying the Cessna 207. Its not much but at least its a start if you know what I mean. Beggars can't really be choosers, I suppose.

Following are rumours & stuff I've heard from the GA side in Australia. True or not? I can't confirm it so if you're really interested, do check it up on them & talk to people. Some of the jobs won't be advertised online.

On the Indian side, if you have an Indian PR or citizenship, you might be able to seek employment from the Indian airliners as they're in shortage of pilots right now. Just some twin hours might get you the job, but I won't really bet on it though.

Employment from China. Go look it up. The major airliners are recruiting fully qualified FOs & Captains but within the next 5-10 years, the GA in China seems to be opening up as they're seeking the help of FAA to assist them in their airspace re-structuring. I think I read the latter somewhere in a magazine, not sure if its FAA or CAA though...

Notice that I mentioned GA most of the time? Well, unless you're in a cadet program, else chances of an airline giving a pilot with less than 1,500 hours flying time to be in the right hand seat will be like a god-send. So, build up the hours & work hard! This route is a really, really tough route so if there are even any doubts that you can withstand this lifestyle, I advise you not to go for your license. Heaps of self-sacrifice is involved here... not to mention the big hole you'll have in your pocket. :{

[9M-]

As I was trained in Australia, I guess I can only give comments about flying in Australia, so here goes...

Employment in Australia is generally not possible unless you're a PR there. With respect to most Singaporean's skills, we will be 5 points short of getting a PR as being a commercial pilot counts as a skill BUT if you're willing to move to the smaller towns/cities, the requirements for PR is less stringent.

If you plan to move out of the 5 major cities, namely; Perth, Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne & Adelaide, there will be other small cities like Broome, Darwin (?) or even Tamworth for that matter who might get you a job. Its hard to find a good job with good pay, fair enough but as long as you don't mind what you're flying you'll find work. That much is certain & I've heard rumours (?) that MFA once wanted to hire an Australian instructor so... it might be a lead. I have a coursemate who completed his IR & is now flying the Cessna 207. Its not much but at least its a start if you know what I mean. Beggars can't really be choosers, I suppose.

Following are rumours & stuff I've heard from the GA side in Australia. True or not? I can't confirm it so if you're really interested, do check it up on them & talk to people. Some of the jobs won't be advertised online.

On the Indian side, if you have an Indian PR or citizenship, you might be able to seek employment from the Indian airliners as they're in shortage of pilots right now. Just some twin hours might get you the job, but I won't really bet on it though.

Employment from China. Go look it up. The major airliners are recruiting fully qualified FOs & Captains but within the next 5-10 years, the GA in China seems to be opening up as they're seeking the help of FAA to assist them in their airspace re-structuring. I think I read the latter somewhere in a magazine, not sure if its FAA or CAA though...

Notice that I mentioned GA most of the time? Well, unless you're in a cadet program, else chances of an airline giving a pilot with less than 1,500 hours flying time to be in the right hand seat will be like a god-send. So, build up the hours & work hard! This route is a really, really tough route so if there are even any doubts that you can withstand this lifestyle, I advise you not to go for your license. Heaps of self-sacrifice is involved here... not to mention the big hole you'll have in your pocket. :{

Yes u r right. Aiming for airline after u graduate is like a god's gift. The next best thing is become a flying instructor. If u want more info of mfa i can help u with that. Mfa have instructors from all over the world so not only australians are they hiring. At least they give fixed pay unlike most other flying clubs around asia or australia that pay instructor on commission base. If u got 2 students a month then u can eat grass.

Well as for airline jobs around china or hongkong, yes they do advertised like 1000+ hours CPL with frozen atpl they will take u in. But read up on the other thread and u will know u r competing with the world and that means competing with pilots with 4000-5000 hours trying to secure the second officer position :D

This is a tough road i know because i am still walking it. Try flying in malaysia and u will know what i mean. Take care and hope to see u flying around this region soon.

[demandpump]

I have a friend who have gotten his cpl/ir and came back failed the interview and went back to his accounting job till now. Wasted 50k+ for nothing.
That's so sad! I was about to ask if anyone had come back with a CPL and then went back to their old jobs because they couldn't find a flying job. Did you tell him not to give up and continue searching? Did he ONLY want to work for SIA and nothing else?

Employment in Australia is generally not possible unless you're a PR there.
That's so true. The Australian GA market is quite flooded if you read the other threads. There's competition everywhere. When I did some recreational flying while studying there, the instructor (Australian) told me that he himself lost his previous job flying the banderante cos the company folded.

At least they give fixed pay unlike most other flying clubs around asia or australia that pay instructor on commission base. If u got 2 students a month then u can eat grass.
hmm... are you able to live comfortably while working as an instructor? Or do you need to do 2 jobs?

[9M-]

That's so sad! I was about to ask if anyone had come back with a CPL and then went back to their old jobs because they couldn't find a flying job. Did you tell him not to give up and continue searching? Did he ONLY want to work for SIA and nothing else?


hmm... are you able to live comfortably while working as an instructor? Or do you need to do 2 jobs?

Well, guess not everyone is as enthu when it come to having to feed your family and many consideration to think about..life still have to go on and money still needs to flow in. Cant afford to wait for oppotunity. Lucky i am single.

Well what i can say is the money one earn will let one live comfortably if teaching in any of the flying school in malaysia. Cant afford a second job not much time left got to work everyday and maybe only weekends off.

[zelin]

well, it's all very realistic isn't it? i guess for many, passion only comes if one has enough $...we are in such a pragmatic society :ouch:
sad that the aviation industry is not really big here...so few opportunities. i'm considering to go into the field of airport management...haha...so totally way off frm what i used to study.:p

[cruisercruiser]

Hi,

Just wondering whether anyone out there borrowed money from any legitimate institutions for their CPL? Or even type ratings? Could cost a bomb, or 5 years of your life scringing and saving...

Welcome any thoughts and comments.

Cheers,

Cruiser

[demandpump]

I really wouldn't think it would be a wise idea to borrow money from loan sharks to fund the CPL training.:=

Anyway, on the topic of training costs...

To be an instructor in Malaysia, after spending about S$70K+ on the CPL/fATPL, we would still need to do our own flying (spend more money) to reach 150 solo hours before qualifying for the AFI course?

Once we complete the AFI course and start looking for an instructor job, I believe we would have already spent more than S$100K!!:ugh:

[cruisercruiser]

Yes u r right. I have a friend who have gotten his cpl/ir and came back failed the interview and went back to his accounting job till now. Wasted 50k+ for nothing. Like i said earlier, if u have all the qualification from australia and came back to singapore. If SQ rejects u, what r u going to do? Where else can u go? Care to share what u think about this? and i will give u the answer with it.

Hi dude,

Could your friend who went back to his accounting job not find an instructing job? Or did he just want to appply for the airline? I hate to think that someone who has spent his life savings on his training cannot fulfill his dreams of flying. Surely like what you had mentioned in your previous posts, there are instucting jobs in one of the few clubs in malaysia?

Hope to hear from you guys soon!

Cruiser

[cruisercruiser]

Hi again,

While saving really hard for the CPL/IR course I am also reading up on one of the UKCAA recommended Air pilot's manual. Currently reading volume 2: Air Law and Operational procedures. While theses manuals adhere to the standards of the UKCAA, how relevant (or helpful/unhelpful) would it be to me who will do the course somewhere in malaysia who conforms to ICAO standards?

Any comments?

By the way " Flying the big jets" is an interesting book about the basics of flying!

Cheers,

Cruiser.

[9M-]

Hi again,

While saving really hard for the CPL/IR course I am also reading up on one of the UKCAA recommended Air pilot's manual. Currently reading volume 2: Air Law and Operational procedures. While theses manuals adhere to the standards of the UKCAA, how relevant (or helpful/unhelpful) would it be to me who will do the course somewhere in malaysia who conforms to ICAO standards?

Any comments?

By the way " Flying the big jets" is an interesting book about the basics of flying!

Cheers,

Cruiser.

Malaysia only uses ukcaa papers on navigation. such as radio aids, instruments, met theory, met prac, navagation, flight planning. Air laws, human perf, technical papers are all set locally. So might not help if u study the uk air law. Might be similar with some parts but better to study the local culture. Instruting in clubs are a demand. But if one is looking for a good pay job then teaching in a club cant get u far.

[demandpump]

Nice to see this thread come to life again!

By the way " Flying the big jets" is an interesting book about the basics of flying!
I have that book too! A very interesting read on flying the 747. Recently I bought some of those cockpit videos by itvv. It gives quite a detailed look at some of the systems in the aircraft (A330, MD-11, concorde etc) and also how the crew operate. Got it from a shop at Sim Lim square.

9M-,
I have a pressing question. The 150hr PIC requirement for the AFI rating is only for PPL holders, right? What about CPL holders? Do they also need 150hrs PIC before being allowed to do the AFI course? If that's the case, then the CPL graduate (with only about 70-80 PIC hrs) would still need to fly some more to reach 150hrs before going for the AFI course. That would mean a lot more money would have to be spent on top of the CPL course just to qualify for entry to the AFI course? Can a CPL graduate go straight into the AFI course?

Also, just out of curiosity, how many flying hours have you accumulated over your years of flying?

Thanks guys, and keep the thread alive!

[demandpump]

A bit off topic...
But with the impending upgrading works at Seletar airport, even the future of syfc hangs in the balance. I wonder what will happen to those two other clubs?
:(

[9M-]

Nice to see this thread come to life again!


I have that book too! A very interesting read on flying the 747. Recently I bought some of those cockpit videos by itvv. It gives quite a detailed look at some of the systems in the aircraft (A330, MD-11, concorde etc) and also how the crew operate. Got it from a shop at Sim Lim square.

9M-,
I have a pressing question. The 150hr PIC requirement for the AFI rating is only for PPL holders, right? What about CPL holders? Do they also need 150hrs PIC before being allowed to do the AFI course? If that's the case, then the CPL graduate (with only about 70-80 PIC hrs) would still need to fly some more to reach 150hrs before going for the AFI course. That would mean a lot more money would have to be spent on top of the CPL course just to qualify for entry to the AFI course? Can a CPL graduate go straight into the AFI course?

Also, just out of curiosity, how many flying hours have you accumulated over your years of flying?

Thanks guys, and keep the thread alive!

Now malaysia dont really have PPL holders afi course anymore. All requirement will have to be CPL/IR then can go for AFI course. Yes the 150 PIC time still applies. Flying hours i would say about 800+ in 10 months.

[cruisercruiser]

Now malaysia dont really have PPL holders afi course anymore. All requirement will have to be CPL/IR then can go for AFI course. Yes the 150 PIC time still applies. Flying hours i would say about 800+ in 10 months.

Wow...Got to spend MORE on top of the 70-80k to get that 150 PIC.

Does anyone know whether SYFC have this requirement?

[9M-]

Wow...Got to spend MORE on top of the 70-80k to get that 150 PIC.

Does anyone know whether SYFC have this requirement?

SYFC if accepted by them they will train you. Although they did not state they need u to have 150 hrs pic but they do require a CAAS CPL. Which one will never be able to obtain unless u r a dropout from sia or came thru massey uni or ex air force retiree.

[cruisercruiser]

SYFC if accepted by them they will train you. Although they did not state they need u to have 150 hrs pic but they do require a CAAS CPL. Which one will never be able to obtain unless u r a dropout from sia or came thru massey uni or ex air force retiree.

Hi,

Heard or what you said above. Also heard of people with canadian and malaysian licenses converting their licenses in SYFC after being employed. Just wondering how they decide to employ. Types pf license, preference for license holders from particular schools etc.

Could people who had done it and now in SilkAir advice? Would appreciate your help very much!

cheers

[Xfr8dog]

I was Singaporean. Married a US Citizen and am now myself a US Citizen. Started training in 1999, spent a year as a flight instructor, flew freight in the PA31 and BE99 for about 2 years, and now have been a EMB-145 FO for 2 years. Next week I start Captain training.

[ilov3s3lina]

after reading the posts........ i started wondering...
why do most of the Self-Sponsored pilot only think of Entering SIA(it seems that SIA is EVERYTHING) right after grtaduation?

probably, your friend who went back to accounting Doesn't have the COrrect Mind-Set and Attitude, thus SIA rejected him. i say he doesn't have the correct mind-set is because he went back to accounting right after he got rejected without even putting in some effort and trying...... maybe he thinks that the sleepless nights spent at the flying school revising CPL papers are enough........ i mean.. come on.. $50k is a BIG SUM of money!! don't he think that it's a big waste if he just waste his license like that?

Well.. notice Many young generation of Singaporeans( as general, not limited to aviators) want it the easy way..... perhaps it's the society or the education system that moulded them into such person.

i think both the Films 'I NOT STUPID' and ' I NOT STUPID II' potrays this fact rather well, Singaporeans put expectations without actually understanding their ability and the limits

____________________________________________________________ __

now i heard something interesting from one of my friend(he got fed up of waiting and went straight into SYDNEY flight training,the school is currently training some MAS cadets)......

Apparently, you can convert your CASA CPL into A DCA Malaysian one..

here's how..

go Aust for training until CPL(ONLY)

Come back to Malaysia, Do IR and ATPL theory .... in MFA or HMA

and in the end, you'll get a DCA Malaysia license( I'm not sure whether you need to sit for CPL papers or not)

well... he said it was told to him directly by DCA director CAPT Yahaya when he contacted DCA.

BTW, we're both malaysian.

[demandpump]

after reading the posts........ i started wondering...
why do most of the Self-Sponsored pilot only think of Entering SIA(it seems that SIA is EVERYTHING) right after grtaduation?

probably, your friend who went back to accounting Doesn't have the COrrect Mind-Set and Attitude, thus SIA rejected him. i say he doesn't have the correct mind-set is because he went back to accounting right after he got rejected without even putting in some effort and trying...... maybe he thinks that the sleepless nights spent at the flying school revising CPL papers are enough........ i mean.. come on.. $50k is a BIG SUM of money!! don't he think that it's a big waste if he just waste his license like that?

Well.. notice Many young generation of Singaporeans( as general, not limited to aviators) want it the easy way..... perhaps it's the society or the education system that moulded them into such person.

i think both the Films 'I NOT STUPID' and ' I NOT STUPID II' potrays this fact rather well, Singaporeans put expectations without actually understanding their ability and the limits

Your comments reflect badly of you as a person, your character and your maturity level.

It is sad that you have formed a negative impression of Singaporeans by simply watching 2 movies. Likewise you have made a bad impression of yourself with one single thoughtless post.

It is selfish and irresponsible to place your dreams above everything else. Life is not only about living your dreams. I'm sure 9M-'s friend, who went back to his accounting job, had other priorities at hand, be it family or financial commitments. It is not as simple as throwing everything behind to pursue your ambitions. Perhaps you don't understand this at your age.

After reading your previous posts, I gather that you are the same young Malaysian boy under a different username who got snubbed for being arrogent on another thread. He stopped posting shortly afterwards. You may have changed your identity, but your style of writing (and I'm sure that's the way you speak as well) betrays you. Perhaps any HM Aerospace instructor on this forum may want to identify this student?

I won't take offence by your insensitive remarks. In fact I shall laugh it off. After all, you're only 19 years of age and can't be expected to know much. You have a whole life ahead of you to experience. However, some senior pilots on this forum may not be so lenient towards you. I'm surprised that no one has checked in yet to give you a good dressing down.

I started this thread for Singaporeans who went their own way to an aviation career to share with us their stories, and what lessons can be learnt. So please don't turn it into a circus.

I hope you complete your course at HM Aerospace. Make use of your time there wisely to develop yourself as a person, build your character and correct your flaws. Certainly, someone with your present kind of attitude won't go very far in aviation, or anywhere else for that matter.

Enough said, back to the original topic.

[demandpump]

I was Singaporean. Married a US Citizen and am now myself a US Citizen. Started training in 1999, spent a year as a flight instructor, flew freight in the PA31 and BE99 for about 2 years, and now have been a EMB-145 FO for 2 years. Next week I start Captain training.

Hi!

Welcome to the thread. Its nice to know that a fellow Singaporean (or ex-Singaporean) has made it on his own. All the best for your command training!

I wonder if there are other self-sponsored guys who have gone on to Asian carriers like CX, Dragon, China, EVA etc?

Cheers!

[Thermal Image]

After reading your previous posts, I gather that you are the same young Malaysian boy under a different username who got snubbed for being arrogent on another thread.


Wild guess: username fhchiang?

[demandpump]

Wild guess: username fhchiang?

That is correct.

[Sunny_Always]

i've been thinking of doing a faa licence then converting as i have relatives in the us. but from a recent thread alteon is building a training center here which is great, cant wait to find out more.

[cruisercruiser]

Your comments reflect badly of you as a person, your character and your maturity level.

It is not as simple as throwing everything behind to pursue your ambitions. .

.

I've got a father who is retiring soon with no income, a brother in U who still needs pocket money...thats why i'm saving at an earthworm's pace. help..

ya its not as easy as putting everything aside for my dreams. sigh.

[jungle-mania]

All the best man, I understand how it is like.

[cruisercruiser]

Guys,

This might be a bit off topic in this thread. Just want to share this piece of info with SQ wannabes and those in the process of saving up for a private CPL. There is an ad in the Straits Times today recruiting for Cadet Pilots and they allow online application without asking whether you have applied before.

Could this be an indication that rules are changing and 2nd round rejects might be considered? Not counting too much on SIA though.

Cheers,

cruiser

[Thermal Image]

Guys,

This might be a bit off topic in this thread. Just want to share this piece of info with SQ wannabes and those in the process of saving up for a private CPL. There is an ad in the Straits Times today recruiting for Cadet Pilots and they allow online application without asking whether you have applied before.

Could this be an indication that rules are changing and 2nd round rejects might be considered? Not counting too much on SIA though.

Cheers,

cruiser

You are correct in saying that the online application asks no question about whether you have applied before.

However let's wait for someone to post his online application experience and what happened next.

I think that post will say that as part of the first interview the candidate had to fill out a printed form containing most of what he stated in his online application, as well as answering a number of questions such as whether he has any relatives in SIA, whether he has applied before for any position or worked in SIA before, whether he has any criminal record or financial embarrassment etc etc. Nothing really different from the Word document previously available.

What is really happening is that all kinds of idiots who obviously don't qualify still apply and they are getting tired of processing such applications.

The new format allows stupid applications to be weeded out electronically.

[cruisercruiser]

Dudes,

Please help me decipher this statement:

"We are seeking private candidates for employment as Cadet Pilots for those with a keen interest. Please download the SFC Employment Application Form (http://www.sfcpl.com/EAF/SFC_Employment_Application_Form.pdf) and follow instructions stated within."

Found at http://www.sfcpl.com/think_p.htm.

Do SFC want privately funded cadets? Or are they recruiting cadets for employment after they graduate? Or are they paying for people to become cadets similar to what SIA does?? Beats me.

[Thermal Image]

They are looking for candidates to train as instructors.

Most likely you are Singaporean and are not yet old enough to be a cadet pilot for SQ, MI or SinCargo.

This is the usual back door strategy for people with passion but are caught out by the age requirements. If you are just using them as a means to waste time before you qualify, they will smell it. When you are done training, you start at less than $2000 as an instructor, so you really gotta have passion teaching passionless (mostly) young men in a sweaty C152.

Quite a handful have come this way since SFC started operations in the late 80s and they are now captains with various airlines. Strangely none are with SIA still (IIRC). One is with Silkair.

[Fat Clemenza]

Do they accept foreigners in this school?

[cruisercruiser]

They are looking for candidates to train as instructors.

Most likely you are Singaporean and are not yet old enough to be a cadet pilot for SQ, MI or SinCargo.

This is the usual back door strategy for people with passion but are caught out by the age requirements. If you are just using them as a means to waste time before you qualify, they will smell it. When you are done training, you start at less than $2000 as an instructor, so you really gotta have passion teaching passionless (mostly) young men in a sweaty C152.

Quite a handful have come this way since SFC started operations in the late 80s and they are now captains with various airlines. Strangely none are with SIA still (IIRC). One is with Silkair.

Thanks a lot for the info Thermal. I think this is a a good back door strategy for the penniless + SIA reject + soon-to-be overaged people like me.

Anyone with further info on duties of these instructors? Is it similar to those of SYFC instructors?

Cheers!

[9M-]

Once selected, you will join the cadets just like SIA. Go thru the ground school in seletar for 6 months, go to jandakot get your CPL/IR. Afterwhich, you will see your friends from SIA proceed to their learjet training and you will be posted back to malaysia flying acedamy to be trained as an assistant flying instructor for 2 months. Afterwhich you will continue to work for MFA and train the malaysian cadets for a further 6 months before aquiring your full QFI. Thereafter you will be posted back to SFC in seletar and start your duties.

Your duties mainly involve training cadets for their basic handling like , EOC1, S&L, Turns etc, then proceed to circuits and landings. Usually the cadets training will end at their first solo flight. You will not be doing any navigations and you will just traiin cadets till their first solo. Passion IS A MUST because you will be doing this for 5 damn years and i tell you to be an instructor is not an easy task if one is not interested at all. Another thing is if you have a mindset of hoping to go SIA after your contract ends, then this mentality will kill and torture you every single day of your life there as you will be dealing with cadets passing out batches after batches. :rolleyes: Hope this helps and indeed this is a good backdoor i would say for the young not the old, unless u want to be an instructor all your life :)

[overmars]

Long live College 13.

:O

[sgrookie]

Amen to that! College 13 is a cool flyer. :} *Out of topic...*

[sunnyday]

college 13 has left SFC already right?

Amen to that! College 13 is a cool flyer. :} *Out of topic...*

[Thermal Image]

I'm not sure if they re-use callsigns but the original C13 (CBS) is now with YFC.

Was his callsign assigned to somebody else?

[heckez]

Just managed to catch up on this long thread and am very impressed with our Singaporean chaps and gals who are actively pursuing their flying dreams.
I have been rather lucky to have gone thru the RSAF - airline route.
I'll be sure to remind my younger colleagues (Singaporean and non-Singaporean) how lucky they are to have a good and stable flying job...and should be more appreciative.
And yes...turbo-props are so much mure fun!!

[cruisercruiser]

Once selected, you will join the cadets just like SIA. Go thru the ground school in seletar for 6 months, go to jandakot get your CPL/IR. Afterwhich, you will see your friends from SIA proceed to their learjet training and you will be posted back to malaysia flying acedamy to be trained as an assistant flying instructor for 2 months. Afterwhich you will continue to work for MFA and train the malaysian cadets for a further 6 months before aquiring your full QFI. Thereafter you will be posted back to SFC in seletar and start your duties.

Your duties mainly involve training cadets for their basic handling like , EOC1, S&L, Turns etc, then proceed to circuits and landings. Usually the cadets training will end at their first solo flight. You will not be doing any navigations and you will just traiin cadets till their first solo. Passion IS A MUST because you will be doing this for 5 damn years and i tell you to be an instructor is not an easy task if one is not interested at all. Another thing is if you have a mindset of hoping to go SIA after your contract ends, then this mentality will kill and torture you every single day of your life there as you will be dealing with cadets passing out batches after batches. :rolleyes: Hope this helps and indeed this is a good backdoor i would say for the young not the old, unless u want to be an instructor all your life :)

Thanks a lot for the info 9M.

Further questions if you allow:

1) Is the 5 years you mentioned a contract?
2) Does the cadet have to pay for the training he received while instructing at SFC? (I'm aware that even SIA requires its pilots to pay a sum like $36k?)

I think instructing at the PPL level is definitely more interesting, but his is definitely a good option for poor earthworms.

Hear ya!

cruiser

[winglet_fever]

Hi CC,

THis is what i know.

1) 5yrs is a unwritten understanding between SFC and SIA. It depends on insrtuctor availablility at SFC before they release. So do add a big +/- sign before the 5yrs.

2) not sure about the bond. But for normal stream cadets, its 18k for Singaporeans and 36k for non-sin.

[9M-]

Well if you guys noticed, there was an advertisment 6 months back looking for cadet pilot to join them as instructor and it was stated clearly of the 5 year bond after the training. Do not think you have to pay anything. Starting pay about 2-3k.

Rencently they advertised again looking for experience pilot to join them as direct entry instructor and so the 5 years bond was not stated which make sense since they dont pay anything for your training. Well from what i see if you have the youth to burn, this is indeed a good way to at least obtain your cpl/ir frozrn atpl without pawning your house. Cheers!

[HenC]

This is my first post. I would really like to say gd luck to all aspiring pilots! :)

Thanks 9M for sharing your experiences too. Seems like u didn't have it easy at all and still persevering. Gd to hear that u r coping fine at some M'sian flying club.

It's also heartening to hear that M'sia are receptive to S'poreans pilot wannabes and that instructors are in demand.

If all goes well, I shd be enrolling in Asia-Pacific Flight Training (APFT) in Sep/Oct 2006. Met up with the chief recruiter Maj (Ret) Ibrahim and asked a number of qns.

He mentioned that out of 9 instructors in AFPT, 4 are S'poreans. (Encouraging!)

APFT does not have AFI course now but will implement it and will even award scholarships to promising students but with bond attached.

APFT has just signed an agreement with AirAsia and students will receive priority for interviews upon graduation. Well, whether they pass the inteview is another matter.

I did ask him if fresh graduates of the academy may be employed right away by other major airlines, he said, "Why not?" Well, based on my info from this thread, he sounded a little too optimistic?

9M, you don't intend to instruct forever, do you? Care to share your long -term dreams? For me, I obtained funding thru own savings and money from a close family member. Parents do not support at all. Very very discouraging but I'm still determined to make it. Do you think it's risky on my part? I really hope to be an airline pilot someday or any pilot who earns gd money.

[9M-]

This is my first post. I would really like to say gd luck to all aspiring pilots! :)

Thanks 9M for sharing your experiences too. Seems like u didn't have it easy at all and still persevering. Gd to hear that u r coping fine at some M'sian flying club.

It's also heartening to hear that M'sia are receptive to S'poreans pilot wannabes and that instructors are in demand.

If all goes well, I shd be enrolling in Asia-Pacific Flight Training (APFT) in Sep/Oct 2006. Met up with the chief recruiter Maj (Ret) Ibrahim and asked a number of qns.

He mentioned that out of 9 instructors in AFPT, 4 are S'poreans. (Encouraging!)

APFT does not have AFI course now but will implement it and will even award scholarships to promising students but with bond attached.

APFT has just signed an agreement with AirAsia and students will receive priority for interviews upon graduation. Well, whether they pass the inteview is another matter.

I did ask him if fresh graduates of the academy may be employed right away by other major airlines, he said, "Why not?" Well, based on my info from this thread, he sounded a little too optimistic?

9M, you don't intend to instruct forever, do you? Care to share your long -term dreams? For me, I obtained funding thru own savings and money from a close family member. Parents do not support at all. Very very discouraging but I'm still determined to make it. Do you think it's risky on my part? I really hope to be an airline pilot someday or any pilot who earns gd money.

Hi Henc,
Well if you could afford the training then by all means go for your dream. But if the saving is all that you have and after training you will not survive if you cannot find an airline job then i would suggest you consider the option first. There are so many cadet applicants around malaysia and singapore. For direct entry pilots with low hours and experience, you really wont look good with the airlines. I have friends with many hours, got all the required licenses but still no airline employment. So please look at the world in a more realistic perpective.

I always tell aspirant pilots this simple sentence, if you really want to self fund your training, then NEVER ever think you will definitely make it into the airlines. Take that as a dream only and be positive that even being a flying instructor is also a good job. With this kind of mindset, then anything good that comes your way will be a bonus. If you cant adapt that mentality , then i would say dont go for the training unless u r super rich :)

For me i am happy to be a flying instructor all my life. Going into the airlines if possible will be a bonus in my life. I really do not know why everyone must think of the airlines as something big and important. If a person loves to be in the air, flying a 152 and a 747, a 152 is more fun ! Cheers!

[HenC]

Yeh, agree totally. (The part where if we self-fund ourselves, getting even a flying instructor job would be gd enough, with the airline a bonus.)

May I ask, besides the 3 major flying schs which offer basic + comm, any other flying clubs offer that too?

I have read in aviation magazines that the current passenger air travel volume grows by about 5% worldwide annually, esp in Asia and cargo traffic is expected to triple in 20 years. China's and India's citizens are also getting richer, air travel should be booming tremendously and a lot of LCCs would be set up along the way. Even India has a new LCC called Kingfisher Airlines. Macau is also looking at a new LCC to tap into China. Moreover, with competition from them, mainstream airlines would also lower their airfares and travel as a whole would become more and more affordable for the masses.

When the aviation industry for travel finally took flight in the 60s and 70s, thousands of pilot wannabes joined the trade. Today, these are the very people who are retiring at 60 years old.

With all these factors, why are there so many unemployed CPL/IRs in M'sia? (unless they only wanna work in M'sia)

When I enter APFT, I'm determined to go and know people. Wanna make sure that I secure a job before I graduate! :)

[HenC]

One more thing pple, I juts read in an Agence France-Presse (AFP) report today that China's Shenzhen airlines has hired 40 Brazillian pilots. Previously, they were not opened to foreigners, now they have no choice. Their national civil aviation academy can only churn out a max of 600 pilots per year. Industry analysts predict that going by the number of aircraft China's airlines have ordered, another 1,600 pilots are needed each year..

Yes, it's true that airlines are not too keen on pilots with low hours but with this demand and shortage, one never knows. :rolleyes:

Even if cadet pilots can only start out as an instructor, it's fine too! But no on'e gonna stop you if u aspire to be an airline pilot eventually, provided you look beyond Msia and S'pore that is. Gd luck!!!:}

[Sunny_Always]

hmm...but like previously described, being an instructor means spending 5yrs in a c152. i thought many airlines require X hrs on jet/large turboprop not to mention ATPL.

[le.aviateur]

Sorry if I'm a little off topic here, but I have a few questions to ask,

I'm Malaysian and I have an aussie fATPL and CPL/IR. I would like to know which school is best to convert my licence? I've heard that MFA is quite badly run and disorganised now, has anyone gone to HMA or APFT? They do not seem too keen on taking in private candidates for conversion although I'd like to convert mine at either of these 2 schools.. Has anyone done their conversion in Malaysia? If so, could you please let me know how you went about it? I've got the letter from DCA stating that I'm eligible to convert my licence already and I called up the schools, so far APFT asked me to contact them again in Oct, HMA hasnt gotten back to me yet and MFA says I have to go down personally to see the principal.

Pls help!

Thanks!

[Yantz]

Hi I am pretty new here, and under "Pilot wannabe" classification. To all you guys out there who have been through so much to fufill and chase your dreams, you have my total respect. I am currently searching for a suitable way to become an airline pilot and after reading through this thread, I have been very enlightened. Thanks for all the info and feedback. FYI I am only a 20 year old awaiting NS.

I have actually stumbled upon the SFC (Singapore flying college) website and they have stated that they accept private students. I just called them and a lady told me I could enrol for the course which is 1.5 years long, around $130K SGD including accomodation, and after which you would attain frozen ATPL, IR recognised by CAAS. She says I would actually be training with the SIA boys if I were to enrol. She told me that upon completion of the course I would need to find a sponsor to attain type ratings, most probably an airline.

Anyway, what do you guys think? I think it's cheaper than going to Massey, plus it's shorter. Yeah I am the lucky ones where Dad wants to help.

[HenC]

Why don't you serve ur NS and try to sign on as a pilot?

Enrolling at SFC will not get u a deferment....you will still have to do your NS first.

Then u can try SIA cadetship after that. Of if not, it is alright to try MFA, APFT or HMA in M'sia. They offer ICAO standard CPLs at S$85,000, including accomodation. Still much cheaper than SFC.

[Yantz]

I see thanks for all the help. I will enquire more on the MFA option after much recommendation by various forumers. So would taking CPL in Australia be totally out of the question? And I heard MFA is fully booked? A fellow forumer told me to make a reservation now 2 years in advance to ensure a place, wonder if that's possible... :}

[HenC]

I see thanks for all the help. I will enquire more on the MFA option after much recommendation by various forumers. So would taking CPL in Australia be totally out of the question? And I heard MFA is fully booked? A fellow forumer told me to make a reservation now 2 years in advance to ensure a place, wonder if that's possible... :}

Well, from what i know from this forum, it's hard to convert an Aust CPL to a S'pore one (if u only want to fly in S'pore, that is). U may want to find out more.

MFA is fully booked....waiting list is about a hundred long. APFT is also building up it's backlog of applicants. Since u r serving ur NS soon, u may want to enrol in those schools now and then when u ORD, u will get ur place. But the best option is always to learn free of charge.....ie RSAF or SIA cadetship.

[Yantz]

Well, from what i know from this forum, it's hard to convert an Aust CPL to a S'pore one (if u only want to fly in S'pore, that is). U may want to find out more.

MFA is fully booked....waiting list is about a hundred long. APFT is also building up it's backlog of applicants. Since u r serving ur NS soon, u may want to enrol in those schools now and then when u ORD, u will get ur place. But the best option is always to learn free of charge.....ie RSAF or SIA cadetship.

Thanks alot. Can anyone assure me that the training I get in MFA is professional? I have read alot of bad remarks about the academy, which I feel might be just unconstructive remarks. No offence to anyone.

I guess now the main worry for me is to find a job upon graduation in this low-job prospect industry, maybe I will go to South Africa to find a bush flying job if I have to..

[cruisercruiser]

I just called them and a lady told me I could enrol for the course which is 1.5 years long, around $130K SGD including accomodation, and after which you would attain frozen ATPL, IR recognised by CAAS. She says I would actually be training with the SIA boys if I were to enrol. She told me that upon completion of the course I would need to find a sponsor to attain type ratings, most probably an airline.

Anyway, what do you guys think? I think it's cheaper than going to Massey, plus it's shorter. Yeah I am the lucky ones where Dad wants to help.

Looks like you have much better luck than me! The website instructs to call SFC, but when I called, a lady refused to tell me more about the private course. She then told me to send my enquiries to them in an email (??). I asked to speak to an instructor or a manager but was told that no one is available (??)

Well at least now we know they really do offer the private course and more importantly take in Singaporeans!

Cheers!

[cruisercruiser]

[QUOTE=HenC;2761869]
I did ask him if fresh graduates of the academy may be employed right away by other major airlines, he said, "Why not?" Well, based on my info from this thread, he sounded a little too optimistic?

QUOTE]

Hi HenC,

I know from a FO who is flying with EVA now that he got his job soon after he graduated from Massey with very little experience. He did mention that this was a "God sent". He has a taiwanese passport.

It seems like it is still possible but extremely rare. Personally I won't put my hopes too high!

Cheers!

[Yantz]

Looks like you have much better luck than me! The website instructs to call SFC, but when I called, a lady refused to tell me more about the private course. She then told me to send my enquiries to them in an email (??). I asked to speak to an instructor or a manager but was told that no one is available (??)

Well at least now we know they really do offer the private course and more importantly take in Singaporeans!

Cheers!

Yeah I spoke to this lady named Kathy, she is quite nice and told me what I needed to know. Maybe they were busy that time? Anyway yeah they do offer fATPL course for 1.5 years, 130K SGD (Accomodation included), approved by CAAS, you will train with the SIA boys in Seletar and Aus. It's alittle on the high side though, must well go Massey and get a Degree for that price. :) Hope this helps. For me I should probably be going to MFA to get my fATPL, hope I can get a place.

[HenC]

[quote=HenC;2761869]
I did ask him if fresh graduates of the academy may be employed right away by other major airlines, he said, "Why not?" Well, based on my info from this thread, he sounded a little too optimistic?

QUOTE]

Hi HenC,

I know from a FO who is flying with EVA now that he got his job soon after he graduated from Massey with very little experience. He did mention that this was a "God sent". He has a taiwanese passport.

It seems like it is still possible but extremely rare. Personally I won't put my hopes too high!

Cheers!

Wow thanks for delivering gd news! I will also try locally once I have graduated but if not, anywhere is fine as long as I get to fly.

What abt prospects over at your side? :)

[Yantz]

Well, from what i know from this forum, it's hard to convert an Aust CPL to a S'pore one (if u only want to fly in S'pore, that is). U may want to find out more.

MFA is fully booked....waiting list is about a hundred long. APFT is also building up it's backlog of applicants. Since u r serving ur NS soon, u may want to enrol in those schools now and then when u ORD, u will get ur place. But the best option is always to learn free of charge.....ie RSAF or SIA cadetship.

I just called MFA and they told me the earliest date I could enter is Nov 2006? I asked them if their waiting list had many people and the Lady told me that was not true. Anyway, hope this is good news for some people. As for me I will put my name down with them for 2008. One thing, do airline companies require/prefer you to be a degree holder when empolyed? (Besides SQ). I am just contemplating if I should study a degree as after passing out of MFA I am still a diploma holder. Any feedback is good thanks. :)

[cruisercruiser]

[quote=cruisercruiser;2809276]

Wow thanks for delivering gd news! I will also try locally once I have graduated but if not, anywhere is fine as long as I get to fly.

What abt prospects over at your side? :)

Hi HenC,

"Prospects" as in training prospects I think? I've explored flying options in the UK, basically doing it via the modular way and going the integrated way through a flying college. If you look back a few pages in this forum, I've mentioned about fllying training with Oxford and my friend's experience with British Airways CitiExpress (now BA connect, which trains its cadets with Flight Training Europe). All these examples mentioned (work permit, financial burden, license conversion) plus advice from local brit instructors and fellow brothers out here suggest that getting a license in the UK is not a very wise choice.

Well, If there are any plus points at all:I've asked a flying instructor here what sets OAT apart from the rest of the world, he replied a crisp "CONTACTS". This he believed had led many people to train with the school despite having to mortgage houses. I believe he meant contacts with BA.

Well, in short, prospects in the UK is not too bright, speaking from a non-european economic area resident's point of view.

Hmm...comments?

Cheers... "mate". haha...

[HenC]

Dear Yantz, with a degree, it will surely be helpful at SIA but not guaranteed. It's good to upgrade oneself though.

Dear cruiserX2, I read thru some of your previous posts heh :} . So what are your plans now? Apply for OAT? It is a world famous school but if you are going to have problems securing a work permit, then perhaps give it a pass? (Foreign football players also have problems getting work permits....look at the EPL lol) It is also very expensive....

I saw u mentioning about MFA in M'sia, why don't you try there? U can always enrol first and by the time u have saved up, it's starting of your course! Why don't u also try APFT in Kota Baru, they have a tie-up with AirAsia and FAXpress.....

[cruisercruiser]

Hi brothers,

Have a good read here: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=240982. More about the prospects of self-sponsorship and flying in the UK.

Enjoy!

[Yantz]

Well I guess the thread shows just how much people want their dreams, even if it means going bankrupt and crying everyday. I wish that chap in UK all the best.

[cruisercruiser]

Hi guys,

For those who requested info through PM, please could you clear your inboxes?

Cheers

[cruisercruiser]

There have been others, eg one who did his own CPL, was underaged so he waited out his time but was an instructor at the Flying College in the meantime, then joined SilkAir, crossed over to SIA, got his command, and now has left for another Asian carrier. Did very well, decent bloke, nice instructor, good operator, a lot of passion for flying. Totally deserved his success. Like the first example, he had a godfather in SIA Flt Ops which helped even more because he was a good guy.



Was revisiting this thread and thought maybe I could get some info here. Where did this decent bloke get his CPL?

Also I've been told thousands of times by UK pilots CONTACTS is what a privately funded CPL holder needs to get the break. Any suggestions how? Have visited places like SYFC to shake some hands, revisited it to reshake some hands whom had completely forgotten me!

Unfortunately can't really get to shake hands in SFC. More less the chance to speak to people in T2 flight ops. Was there speaking to some admintrators and was told its difficult to catch the big shots unless you are damn lucky. I left feeling like a wandering ghost. Desperate it sounds but someone had told me "if you can't get past your own inhibiitons, how do you expect others to get past their inhibitions on you?"

comments?

[Thermal Image]

Was revisiting this thread and thought maybe I could get some info here. Where did this decent bloke get his CPL?

I have lost touch with him. I can't remember where he did his CPL. It is irrelevant. His circumstances are way different from yours - no godfather being the biggest difference. For him, the school was really irrelevant because it was only a matter of time as to WHEN he would get into SIA, not whether he would get in or not. To pick up flying hours and also to stay current he joined SFC to teach. And anyway the school had no part in hooking him up with his godfather. So trying to go to the same school he did, to hope to duplicate his success, is not going to work.


Also I've been told thousands of times by UK pilots CONTACTS is what a privately funded CPL holder needs to get the break. Any suggestions how? Have visited places like SYFC to shake some hands, revisited it to reshake some hands whom had completely forgotten me!

So obviously you know from experience that if they can't even remember you, then such a method will not work.

Unfortunately can't really get to shake hands in SFC. More less the chance to speak to people in T2 flight ops. Was there speaking to some admintrators and was told its difficult to catch the big shots unless you are damn lucky. I left feeling like a wandering ghost. Desperate it sounds but someone had told me "if you can't get past your own inhibiitons, how do you expect others to get past their inhibitions on you?"

Forget about the "hang around and shake hands method" of trying to get in.

So what have you done about becoming a cadet flying instructor referred to in earlier pages? Have you tried e-mailing them your application, or are you stopped dead just because of a phone call that went nowhere? This ought to really be your Plan B.

Parting advice - do NOT fund your own CPL/IR. It is very likely that you will be bitter, jobless and broke if all you want is to work for SIA.

[cruisercruiser]

Parting advice - do NOT fund your own CPL/IR. It is very likely that you will be bitter, jobless and broke if all you want is to work for SIA.

Of course getting into SIA is a bonus without which I will settle with instructing.

Thanks for your advice.

[cruisercruiser]

So what have you done about becoming a cadet flying instructor referred to in earlier pages? Have you tried e-mailing them your application, or are you stopped dead just because of a phone call that went nowhere? This ought to really be your Plan B.



I've a short bond to serve out before I can leave. The first thing I'll do after the bond is to apply to SFC. Yes this is indeed my plan.

Cheers!

[cruisercruiser]

Interesting read: http://airlineflycrew.com/viewtopic.php?t=47. Yet another success story of a self sponsored guy.

Was directed here for info: http://www.transmile.com/index.asp?id=15&im=job_detail.

cheers!

[Thermal Image]

I've a short bond to serve out before I can leave. The first thing I'll do after the bond is to apply to SFC. Yes this is indeed my plan.

Cheers!

All the best to you then.

This much I have to say: if you are honest, hardworking and passionate about the job, you will surely be noticed by McCully. To start with, his office is within earshot of the SFC ops room, so he will know if you are a good man. Certainly he is a compassionate man and has helped many a (young) pilot who were victims of circumstance and worthy of redemption.

Far too many characters in SIA (cadets included) are just mediocre in their work but experts in sucking up. It is a large organisation and such tactics unfortunately work well. On the other hand if you are a quiet achiever who has no stomach for bull**** like that, then be assured that your time in SFC will not escape the scrutiny of M and you will be justly rewarded. Of course it takes time and persevere you must.

[cruisercruiser]

Thanks for the insight dude. Appreciate all the honest and direct comments and views.

Way to go, cheers!

[dream747]

I must say after reading so many posts here (I didn't realise the presence of this thread before) it really got me thinking on whether I should go ahead and train privately. It's really discouraging to see that things are happening the way they are right now and I'm not from a rich family as well and I'll really need the income coming to support my family. But it's really hard to forgo and give up this dream. Sigh!

[cruisercruiser]

Hi,

I am looking for ATPL study notes and am wondering if anyone has any idea how to get a set without burning a hole in the pocket. It doesn’t really matter what syllabus the notes follows because I’m reading up for interest only and hopefully it’ll make my future studies for a CPL easier.

I’ve tried Bristol ground school and was told that one module will cost about 85 pounds which I cannot afford. I’ve also got a contact from FTE who is willing to give me all his notes but shipping all the notes from Spain to Singapore will amount to more than 180 pounds. Happened to chance upon a CD put up for bid in Ebay that looks dodgy.

Can I also ask whether SIA pilots are allowed to give their notes away. I’ve got some friends in there but didn’t want to put them in a difficult situation since the materials might be proprietary.

Any suggestions welcome.

[hopeful_pilot]

Hi there, I was wondering if pursuing a Diploma in Aviation Studies would help one's credibility during the cadet pilot interview?

This diploma could then lead to a diploma in air transport in RMIT where a CPL is obtained.

Comments/Input from anyone?

Much appreciated..Thanks!

[hopeful_pilot]

To elaborate on the earlier post, after completing the Diploma in Aviation Studies, there is a tie-up with RMIT to pursue a Diploma in Air Transport (link attached below)

http://www.rmit.edu.au/browse/Study%20at%20RMIT%2FTypes%20of%20study%2FTAFE%20Programs%2F; ID=C6009;STATUS=A

The 2nd diploma in air transport will give you a CPL-IR from RMIT in 1yr, albeit it being abit pricey.. is it possible to apply to SIA or other airilnes with that? How viable does this sound if I want to pursue my ambition of becoming an airline pilot?

Thanks in advance for the comments and suggestions :)

[cruisercruiser]

Hi Hopeful Pilot,

If you are a degree holder, have been rejected by SIA and still want to fly, do work/save very hard and go the private way. Previous posts say a lot about the private option as you might have already read. Good if SIA is willing to consider you again in future. Below is what I read somewhere. The guy who posted this is with SIA.


Dear all,

Here is a bit of information and I hope it will help you in your interview. Actually this information are for more for applicants whom had done their interview (Esp those medical and 2nd round of interviews) but failed.

The other day I met a colleague (Management Pilot) and we were talking about the interviewees for came forward and applied but failed. He said that especially those who failed the 2nd round interview or medical. Will NOT be considered again. This is no matter who you know or if you reapply again. That includes if you take a PPL or ATPL outside, the company will NOT consider your reapplication.

There are many reasons why the company rejects an applicant. One of th most important they look for in an applicant is do they have the aptitude.

Those rejected, please dont be upset. There are other airlines out there that may accept you (If you have ATPL and CPL/IR). Personally I feel if you have the determination, you will find your dream job in the cockpit.

However if you have spare cash and willing to go the alternative route http://www.mfa.edu.my/MFA-2006-April-10-CPLIR-Direct.pdf (http://www.mfa.edu.my/MFA-2006-April-10-CPLIR-Direct.pdf). But be prepared to spend at least SGD$80K to get the ATPL. Then again as a pilot with in the airline you will earn those money back in no time.

Can I get a job with Singapore Airlines?
Yes, if you show that you have done the full CPL/IR with a Frozen ATPL in the stipulated time of 66 weeks and have passed all subjects in 2 attempts maximum and have cleared the interview et cetera with Singapore Airlines. Your Malaysian DCA licence CPL/IR with a frozen ATPL is recognised by Singapore CAAS as per their AIC.
Taken from http://www.mfa.edu.my/faq.html#a13 (http://www.mfa.edu.my/faq.html#a13)

Good Luck!

Hope this doesn't discourage you. Good luck and save hard.

[Thermal Image]

It is good that you are helping out a hopeful (SIA) cadet. Your intentions are noble.

However you are not doing him a favour by raising his hopes. You are not (yet) in SIA so you should not speak on their behalf, not being able to actually taste the mood first hand.

Also, the bit from MFA about being able to join SIA with qualifications from MFA, although not written by you, is not helpful to Hopeful Pilot either. Spreading untested advice is not being responsible.

MFA has phrased their reply very carefully. Yes, anyone with an ATPL can get a job with SIA, subject to blahblahblah. It is a conditional reply based on subsequent conditions. In other words, Hopeful Pilot can get a job with SIA after getting an ATPL from MFA, just like he can win the Singapore Sweep, just like he can become prime minister or president. But will he, really?

MFA is in the business of selling courses. Of course they would paint as rosy a picture as they can, stopping short of telling lies which can be proven in court.

The facts remain that Singaporean / Malaysian private candidates make up less than 0.5% of the total number of locals (more than 1500 have passed through SFC since 1989). Almost all of the self-funded CPL/ATPLers who were accepted had to do the whole course at SFC all over again. Most were just flatly rejected outright. It is a very VERY bad idea to do a self-funded ATPL course with the sole intention (ie SIA or bust) of joining SIA. A very stupid and expensive idea indeed.

If however the candidate is willling to accept instructorship at SFC, or entry into Silkair, Sincargo or the LCCs, then his chances are many many times better.

[hopeful_pilot]

It is good that you are helping out a hopeful (SIA) cadet. Your intentions are noble.

However you are not doing him a favour by raising his hopes. You are not (yet) in SIA so you should not speak on their behalf, not being able to actually taste the mood first hand.

Also, the bit from MFA about being able to join SIA with qualifications from MFA, although not written by you, is not helpful to Hopeful Pilot either. Spreading untested advice is not being responsible.

MFA has phrased their reply very carefully. Yes, anyone with an ATPL can get a job with SIA, subject to blahblahblah. It is a conditional reply based on subsequent conditions. In other words, Hopeful Pilot can get a job with SIA after getting an ATPL from MFA, just like he can win the Singapore Sweep, just like he can become prime minister or president. But will he, really?

MFA is in the business of selling courses. Of course they would paint as rosy a picture as they can, stopping short of telling lies which can be proven in court.

The facts remain that Singaporean / Malaysian private candidates make up less than 0.5% of the total number of locals (more than 1500 have passed through SFC since 1989). Almost all of the self-funded CPL/ATPLers who were accepted had to do the whole course at SFC all over again. Most were just flatly rejected outright. It is a very VERY bad idea to do a self-funded ATPL course with the sole intention (ie SIA or bust) of joining SIA. A very stupid and expensive idea indeed.

If however the candidate is willling to accept instructorship at SFC, or entry into Silkair, Sincargo or the LCCs, then his chances are many many times better.

hi thermal image and cruiser,

thanks alot to both of you for sharing your thoughts..

thermal image: you mentioned that if the candidate is wililng to go to silkair, singapore cargo instead, a privately funded ATPL would suffice..may i know the chances of them taking in a privately funded ATPL candidate?

besides these 2 coys, would we stand a chance to apply to other airlines with a CPL-IR? For e.g. LCCs such as Air Asia, Tiger Air, or perhaps Garuda, Malaysia Airilnes etc?

other than taking a privately funded CPL-IR/ATPL, how useful would it be to take up a course in aviation and then apply to SIA again..would it go some way in showing them that you have a keen interest in aviation?

btw thermal, you are with SIA now?

thanks! :)

[winglet_fever]

It is good that you are helping out a hopeful (SIA) cadet. Your intentions are noble.
However you are not doing him a favour by raising his hopes. You are not (yet) in SIA so you should not speak on their behalf, not being able to actually taste the mood first hand.
Also, the bit from MFA about being able to join SIA with qualifications from MFA, although not written by you, is not helpful to Hopeful Pilot either. Spreading untested advice is not being responsible.
MFA has phrased their reply very carefully. Yes, anyone with an ATPL can get a job with SIA, subject to blahblahblah. It is a conditional reply based on subsequent conditions. In other words, Hopeful Pilot can get a job with SIA after getting an ATPL from MFA, just like he can win the Singapore Sweep, just like he can become prime minister or president. But will he, really?
MFA is in the business of selling courses. Of course they would paint as rosy a picture as they can, stopping short of telling lies which can be proven in court.
The facts remain that Singaporean / Malaysian private candidates make up less than 0.5% of the total number of locals (more than 1500 have passed through SFC since 1989). Almost all of the self-funded CPL/ATPLers who were accepted had to do the whole course at SFC all over again. Most were just flatly rejected outright. It is a very VERY bad idea to do a self-funded ATPL course with the sole intention (ie SIA or bust) of joining SIA. A very stupid and expensive idea indeed.
If however the candidate is willling to accept instructorship at SFC, or entry into Silkair, Sincargo or the LCCs, then his chances are many many times better.


T.I., just to set the record straight..


CAAS recognises CPL/IR ONLY from the following flight training "schools"
- oxford
- MFA
- SFC
- Massey
- perth, scotland (not sure about the name of the training school)

thus, """"IF"""""" and when one has passed SIA's interview, ATPL(only for oxford and MFA) and basic flying phase in perth are not required, straight into learjet phase. i can name at least 10 names from the top of my head that has gone through this route.

Cheers

quote...
rock steady!

[Thermal Image]

Thank you for updating me.

Let's assume that your count does not include the Hongkongers and is just limited to the Singaporeans and Malaysians that have taken the DIY path.

Let's also assume that we are likely from different eras, and my count does not include anyone from your count and thus perhaps there is now a trend developing.

That would therefore make my 0.5% plus your 10 or so becoming maybe 20 in total. Out of 1500 that would then make 1.33%, almost triple my first estimate. Should HP therefore be encouraged by this?

My own gut feel is that the DIYers I know sat around a long time waiting for SIA to revert (well beyond the expiration of their currency), when SIA was still actively recruiting the ab initio candidates, and only then did the DIYers eventually get accepted, and more often than not into Cargo. This suggests they weren't exactly on the top 10 most wanted, more like a distant Plan C or Plan D.

Also, while I don't have the numbers to compare, as a group, how many of the DIYers got chopped, vs the ab initio as a group, my feeling is that in spite of the DIYers being equipped with a CPL/fATPL, more of them as a group percentage were chopped compared to the ab initio boys.

All these (unscientific feelings) tells me that to do DIY your CPL/ATPL just to get into SIA is a silly idea.

[cruisercruiser]

Hi All,

Long time no hear!

...raising his hopes.

I thought I was being discouraging to be honest!

cheers

[dream747]

Sorry to bring this thread up again...with reference to flight instructing at SFC, joining LCCs, are there good chances of succeeding? As far as I can see their requirements are jet time and even type rated on the specific jets (A320 especially). For Singaporeans is it really just SIA or nothing?

[Left Wing]

the SIN based LCC's do not hire fresh pilots even if they get their own type rating this is very sad news for the local guys who are self funded pilots.

May be HK airlines based in HKG would look at you guys if you got your own type on 737NG...all the best

[HenC]

Sounds really discouraging! :bored:

Care to quote the source of your info?

I'm currently doing my training in APFT Kelantan...really hope to be employed back in S'pore. Even if not, I'm prepared to work for Air Asia or even be an instructor there!

Doing all that it takes........

[jondol]

Hello All,

going a bit out of the present discussion, anyone here doing SIN ATP exams? more specifically anyone here currently, or planning in the near future, or have done the exams this year????

Need some help (or rather... lots of help). me planning to do it this June.

Regards,

another self sponsered license holder

[cruisercruiser]

[/QOUTE]thus, """"IF"""""" and when one has passed SIA's interview, ATPL(only for oxford and MFA) and basic flying phase in perth are not required, straight into learjet phase. i can name at least 10 names from the top of my head that has gone through this route. [/QOUTE]

Hi, I am confused by the licenses. ATPL from Oxford Aviation Training is UKCAA. ATPL from MFA is DCA. ATPL from Singapore Flying College is CAAS compliant. So if SIA recognise ATPL from Oxford and MFA, does it mean that the UKCAA and malaysia's DCA ATPLs are recognised by singapore's CAAS? If this is the case, why does SIA only recognise ATPLs from OAT and MFA, since if a school like HMA (or APFT or whatever) complies to DCA, its license will be of the same standard as that of MFA? Similarly, if all the schools in the UK complies to UKCAA (just like Oxford) shouldn't they all be recognised by SIA?

[Thermal Image]

Let me try and make the licence conversion / recognition process understandable in 3 easy steps.

1. SIA may have certain flying schools they regard as up to the mark. But SIA is not the one who "recognises" whose licence is valid or not valid. It is CAAS. For more info go to:

http://www.caas.gov.sg/caas/en/Regulations_And_Guidelines/Guidelines_and_Manuals/AFO/Advisory_Circulars/licensing_aircraft_maintenance.html

and download AC FCL-1(0) dated 1 Jan 2007 titled Conversion of Foreign Profession Pilot Licenses.

CAAS must first recognise and be willing to convert a licence from another country. THEN and ONLY THEN will SIA will think about whether they want to hire that person. SIA may like a candidate very much during the interview stage but if CAAS does not want to convert the licence SIA isn't going to do **** about it, especially for cadets. As simple as that.

2. Don't worry about the logic. No point making chaining together if-this-and that, so how come it-isn't-that-and-that etc. There isn't any logic involved. Before the latest CAAS document came out the process was even more mysterious.

3. Don't even think about inventing your own path to an ATPL and hoping that CAAS will give you face. They don't give face to SIA, why should they give face to you? You'll screw yourself properly if you think you can produce an ATPL abd get CAAS to endorse it. Just follow the CAAS yellow brick road.

Good luck. Because getting an ATPL on your own is a huge gamble not as to whether you will pass but as to whether you will find a job here as a Singapore passport holder, not to mention overseas where not having a passport of that country is already a huge disadvantage.

[cruisercruiser]

Thanks Thermal, things are clear now that there is a document. What I understood from the document:

From the document, one of the pre-requisites is that the foreign license holder "..must hold a professional pilot licence issued by an ICAO contracting state in accordance with ICAO Annex 1." This Annex contains malaysia.

Also it was stated that "For holders of ATPL(A) issued by DCA Malaysia, full credits may be granted for the Technical Group of papers and the ATPL Navigation Group of papers, provided the holder has passed the relevant papers by DCA Malaysia...". Which means I don't have to re-sit the ATPL exams if I were to hold a license from say a school in malaysia that is DCA compliant.

However "...The holder of a foreign pilot licence of an ICAO contracting State applying for conversion should complete Parts I to VI of Form CAAS(FO)01 and submit a copy of his licence and relevant documents as required in Paragraph 8 to the recruitment officer of prospective employer (“air operator”) for screening. The air operator’s recruitment officer is required to
assess the licence and documents for their validity and completeness, and if found satisfactory, he should complete Part VII of Form CAAS(FO)01. Part VIII of Form CAAS(FO)01 requires the Chief Pilot of the air operator fleet or Head of Training to recommend a suitable training programme for the foreign pilot for CAAS’ approval."

The above requires the foreign license holder to apply to CAAS for conversion, through the air operator's recruitment officer and the Chief Pilot. Which means that the foreign license holder's employment must have already been secured with his employers even before application. So besides satisfying all the pre-requisites in the CAAS document, it all boils down to whether the air operator "recognises" the school where I graduated from.

What I need to know is (besides SIA which "recognises" schools like OAT, Massey and MFA), what schools does other air operators like SYFC or whatever operators based in singapore recognise? Are there any cargo air operators based in Singapore?

I'm Singaporean and have nearly zero chance with SIA. I'm assuming the worst case scenario that SFC (full subsidiary of SIA) rejects me for the instructor course, leaving me with not many choices left in Singapore. Of course many singaporeans fly in malaysia. I'm finding options that you may have heard of.

I'm finding as I get older and when reality sets in (yes parent need to eat), I'm getting a little more worried about spending $80k on a license (not including opportunity costs of annual income) and not getting a job.

[pendekar]

Cruisercruiser,

I heard there are currently 3 Singaporeans in HM Aerospace Langkawi, whom, last i heard were doing their type rating and would eventually end up instructing there. Hope that helps.

[jondol]

Hello again folks,

Seems that my posting wasn't eye catching enuf.....again may I ask if anyone here (self sponsored CPL holders) have taken the SIN ATP lately? If you could share the experience or help or materials or anything...wud appreciate it very much.:)

[mingalababya]

last i heard were doing their type rating and would eventually end up instructing there. Wouldn't they already be rated on type since they did their training there? :confused:

[HenC]

For everyone's info, I have heard my instructors telling me abt 40-50 plus S'poreans working as FIs in Johor. Don't know about other parts of M'sia. Maybe KL has more.

Haven't heard of any private cadet flying for airlines yet....but it could soon happen with AirAsia. But don't take it for granted that once u pass ur ATPL, ur in. They also select private cadets based on your performance and ranking.

[SmileAirlines]

HenC,

40-50 S'porean FIs in Johor? I think that a bit exagerrating... As far as I know, there are only 3 GA flying schools in Johor state, all located in Senai, namely Elite, Fras and Johor Flying Club (JFC). Elite being the biggest in term of fleet with 5 planes only has around 3 full time FIs, with another 2-3 part timers, most if not all are Singaporeans. Fras and JFC have around 2-3 FIs each, only some are Singaporeans as well... There are ultra-lights and trikes activities in Nusa Jaya, near the second link, but they only have a handfull of FIs as well..

[HenC]

Well, I don't have the details. I got the info from a fellow S'porean who's an FI in my sch.

[cruisercruiser]

Read in the latest Flight International: "Six student pilots from two Chinese carriers are on course to be the first in the world to graduate from training with multi-crew pilot licences..."

Although not exactly the same, haven't SIA been doing this for its cadet scheme for ages?

What are the implications on locally self-sponsored guys? An easier route to the airlines?

[mingalababya]

It's the MPL, Multi-crew pilots license. Australia's CASA is currently trialling it (http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/multicrew/index.htm) with 6 candidates in Brisbane. I wonder if it's the same 6 candidates you're refering to in Fight International?

As for whether it's an easier route to the airlines for non-cadets, don't really know but alot of simulator time is required which would be costly to anyone doing it privately.

[Yantz]

Do you guys think there's hope to be employed in India or China with 200hours? Or do they also require 1000hours and above to be eligible? I see some Indian carriers having trainee pilot programs, but is that only catered to their own nationals?
Malaysia does have instructing and Transmile seems to have a bad reputation.

[cruisercruiser]

Hi,
Any probable self-sponsoring wannabe care to join me in a library to self study UKCAA ATPL materials? I thought it's a good way to prepare for the course and at the same time meet like-minded people.
How about sunday afternoons woodlands library. Give me a PM if you are interested in the study group.
Hope to see you!
Cheers
cruiser

[newfreighter]

i do have some study materials for the atpl papers (plus ten years series). however i do advise candidates to attend courses, it helps.

and i heard okay airlines of china do take fresh cadets with a training bond.

also regarding singapore's lcc/normal carrier, they do take in fresh cadets with/without type ratings.this i saw myself.

[cruisercruiser]

Actually I'm just looking for study companions. Used to study in groups. Think it'll make my life easier when I take the actual course in future.

LCC taking in cadets?? Or are they taking in people who already have a license but without a type?

Cheers

[HenC]

You mean Jetstar / Tiger take in fresh ATPL holders w/o any type rating?

How can you confirm that?

[newfreighter]

oops! my apologies.

not cadets, i mean cpl/ir, frozen atpl holders without type.

this affirmed.

[ssangyongs]

do they accept malaysian?

[newfreighter]

try air asia if you are malaysian.:ok:

[ssangyongs]

u mean they dont accept other nationalities for FO position? i hold malaysian fatpl from mfa without type rating.

[Merlinrabbi]

SQC do accept malaysian with fATPL. just flown with one SO in the same situation as you from mfa.

[ssangyongs]

thanks!!! i shall inquire them about it..and about the SO you mentioned can u ask him how's life there?

any more details are appreciated.

[Merlinrabbi]

ssangyongs,

sorry, i dont think i'll fly with him again for the next 5 yrs :} ... didn't get his contact details too.

what other details do you need?

[ssangyongs]

i accumulated a little over 1000 tt mostly on single engine flying with brief stint at MH rural air service in sarawak, do you think they will accept me? how about a/c they operate and if they gonna finance my type rating how many years will i have to serve and if there's any chance to move to SQ mainline pax? I only need extra 400++ TT to get my full ATPL but i prefer it on airline type not just single engine flying.

and how's life in SQC? they said once you join cargo there's no turning back to SLF or pax

i also wonder SQ cadets that completed their training in down under does the company give them option wether to fly pax or cargo

thanks in advance

kev

[Merlinrabbi]

kev, check you pm

[cruisercruiser]

A friend of mind asked me this and I was stumped. If I were to get a license from SFC and a FI rating in say MFA, will I able able to instruct in malaysia? Is there any conversion I have to do? Like convert my singaporean license to a malaysian one?? Well, just looking at things from a different perspective.

Cheers,

cruiser

[thornycactus]

A friend of mind asked me this and I was stumped. If I were to get a license from SFC and a FI rating in say MFA, will I able able to instruct in malaysia?
1. MFA - Malaysian Flying Academy.
2. FI rating from MFA is obviously M'sia DCA FI rating! Now, do you think you are able to instruct in Malaysia?

Is there any conversion I have to do? Like convert my singaporean license to a malaysian one??
Click here (http://www.dca.gov.my/download.php?FilePoolID=555) to download '.pdf format' guidelines online.

*You've posted on the wrong thread.:rolleyes:

[cruisercruiser]

Thanks for the link thorny.

Maybe I should have been clearer. Will I be able to take a FI course in malaysia if I have a singaporean CPL? Or must I convert my license before I am allowed to take the course?

cruiser

[ltjng]

I recently know that there are so many CPL/fATPL holders here from Singapore and Malaysia.

I would like to hear anyone who can't make it to the mainstream or budget, and interested to fly in China, but with A320 type rating. I have a very good opportunity overthere to start off your career or looking for quick command upgrade.

Please PM me asap, as we are interviewing pilots now.

[thornycactus]

Maybe I should have been clearer. Will I be able to take a FI course in malaysia if I have a singaporean CPL? Or must I convert my license before I am allowed to take the course?

read post number 10 onwards (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2661054#post2661054) <- [ click]

I recommend you to join Friendster.com. Not difficult to find members who are trainees/FI from MFA, HM, APFT, IAA and GGIFA. Many a times, I have my reliable sources from these people. :) If you want fast and reliable response, decorate your profile (of course with your picture) to show your sincerity and people will respond to your queries.

To answer you question, there are many Singapore CPL holders in HM. Some of them (FI in Malaysia’s Flying Schools) even have licence from MAAS too! And SIA doesn’t accept them.

All Malaysia’s flying schools train their FI for themselves. There is no such thing that they will train FI for flying clubs. Flying schools train FI (almost for free) but these newly graduated FIs must sign bond.:\

Despite flying clubs are facing shortage of FI, Malaysia DCA do not care! Malaysia DCA is quite “useless” in another point of view which DCA has no control to this (flying school making FI to sign contract).

To convert your licence, I am not answering you at the moment. Sorry.:hmm:

Post your query in other thread. Not suitable here.

[hijack]

yeap.. I've got a british Jaa cpl/ir multi...

got an interview in EU and hong kong.

Market seems booming. Hours wise, I've got minimums...

try DHL.

[Hermie]

Just wondering. Is it possible with a CPL/ME 250hrs to enter into the world of private jets, charter flights as First Officers etc. i'm not talking about airlines. what's the system like in Singapore or overseas ?

best !

[visselhovede]

THe letter following is the reply from MFA.

Dear Sir,

In order for you to obtain a Malaysian AFI rating approval from the Department of Civil Aviation Malaysia is required. You require to convert your CAAS CPL to a Malaysian licence. The DCA, Malaysia can be contacted at the following address:

Licensing Division
Department of Civil Aviation, Malaysia
Level 2, Block Podium B,
Lot 4G4 Precint 4
62570 Putrajaya,
Malaysia
Capt. Dato' Yahaya - Tel: 03-88714027
Mr. T. Williams - Tel: 03-88714097
Fax: 03-88714334

Kind Regards,

So whoever want to take CAAS CPL and take DAC FI course please take note.
I wonder how much time does it take to convert? just doucmentation admin stuffs or need to take some ground exam in order to convert?:confused:

[cooperlim]

Hi,





first of all think it best that i explain a little of myself to u.. oh by the way.. i am a malaysian with singapore PR., 22 this year

,i am a poly grad from ngee ann.. and i got a ppl during the course of my studies... and i made in the the last round of interview and

i was ask to go for the medical check up .. and the day before i was suppose to go, the HR guy call me up and ask me to hold and wait...and i tried asking for a reason, but nothing was given

later they even send out a email telling me that they will contact me when there is a need for me to go medical..

so is that a rejection from SIA .. and i think i have been waiting for 1 and a half year now...

in the mean time i tried to do something instead of just waiting for the reply, i went to MFA for my frozen ATPL...

and i clear all the papers in 1 go..

currently i am on the twin program now.. should be able to finished my course in nov...

so now i am hoping to know am i being rejected from SIA?

will there be any chance for me to go for another round of interview again to proven myself..?

is there anything i can do now to help me in my career with SIA or any other airline or should i wait till i have the lic in hand?

oh ya one more thing.. i was offer by AIR FORCE, during my course and i made it through the tests and interview, and i was told if i am to join them i should give them a reply

by end of the year before my medical expire, should i still join them with my CPL?..



cheers,

happy landings



cooper

[thornycactus]

oh ya one more thing.. i was offer by AIR FORCE, during my course and i made it through the tests and interview, and i was told if i am to join them i should give them a reply by end of the year before my medical expire, should i still join them with my CPL?..

-message trunicated-

[thornycactus]

So whoever want to take CAAS CPL and take DAC FI course please take note.I wonder how much time does it take to convert? just doucmentation admin stuffs or need to take some ground exam in order to convert?
Have you read my post #211? Did you visit the hyper-link (http://www.dca.gov.my/download.php?FilePoolID=555)?
Read thoroughly please and figure out yourself.

1. You will need RM60K for the M.E. flying (http://www.mfa.edu.my/MFA-2006-December-11-CPLIR-Direct.pdf) (35hours).
2. You need to do medical.
3. You may required to sit for extra papers.
4. After your conversion, you will then begin your FI training. Before or during FI course, you will be asked to sign a bond compulsory.

Just use the search engine in this forum! It is so useful to find out what you want.

[cooperlim]

Air Force is most likely to reject you if you hold a CPL. The Air Force (e.g. RSAF) has their military system and a CPL holder is likely to upset their system. Come to think of it, if everybody gets a CPL and join the Air Force, what do you think it will be like in the air-force?

What I suggest is, you should not get CPL now. Go through the Air Force selection process and get a military pilot licence. It is so prestigious! Especially you are a Malaysian! Opportunity only comes once!

Side note one: A SAF sponsored scholar is able to take Law Degree. However, he is not allow to sit for the Bar Test to qualify as a lawyer. Similarly, a Law Degree holder (who is a qualified lawyer) is neither unwelcome to join the army nor be able to commission as military officer.

Side note two: A CPL holder is likely to get screen-off or phase-off in SIA training scheme faster. They are many reasons. One reason is, SIA training staffs have “extra-ordinary” high expectation on you because you are experienced. If you are unable to meet their expectation during training, there will no more a second chance for you.

I doubt you will stop now. Still, I encourage to stop your CPL flight training. My reason -> If you get phase-out during Air-Force training phase, you still can continue your CPL training! Do not waste your valuable chance! Go straight into military training first, getting a CPL can come at a later stage.:)
thanks for the advice, but currently i am on my last phase of trainning with is the muti-eng, IR, 35 hours to go..., and i have told them about my trainning with mfa, and they allowed me to join them after my trainning, and i understand its a once in the life time chances for me to join airforce, but as lots of people who went in, told me not to join due the the poor management, and the airforce took about 1 year to process my case, and i thou it was no chance thats y i went for my cpl, and they call me up for further test and interview during my trainning .. and till now after 2 years they finally offer me the contract, and the trouble of finding 2 person for the half a million bond contract, anyway now i hope to get in to SQ or any airline if possible, if not i try to get a job as insturctor of something , for me to pursue my BAC in aviation mangement, then try again.
anyway thanks for the advice, how about u ? are u in airforce?

[thornycactus]

oh ya one more thing.. i was offer by AIR FORCE, during my course and i made it through the tests and interview, and i was told if i am to join them i should give them a reply by end of the year before my medical expire, should i still join them with my CPL?..

thanks for the advice, but currently i am on my last phase of trainning with is the muti-eng, IR, 35 hours to go..., and i have told them about my trainning with mfa, and they allowed me to join them after my trainning, and i understand its a once in the life time chances for me to join airforce, but as lots of people who went in, told me not to join due the the poor management, and the airforce took about 1 year to process my case, and i thou it was no chance thats y i went for my cpl, and they call me up for further test and interview during my trainning .. and till now after 2 years they finally offer me the contract, and the trouble of finding 2 person for the half a million bond contract, anyway now i hope to get in to SQ or any airline if possible, if not i try to get a job as insturctor of something , for me to pursue my BAC in aviation mangement, then try again. anyway thanks for the advice, how about u ? are u in airforce?
I read your post reply very carefully. You are one funny chap. You have already made your decision, why did you still post your query in the first place? :ouch:

[dream747]

Side note two: A CPL holder is likely to get screen-off or phase-off in SIA training scheme faster. They are many reasons. One reason is, SIA training staffs have “extra-ordinary” high expectation on you because you are experienced. If you are unable to meet their expectation during training, there will no more a second chance for you.


But is it worth a try in the sense that they are more likely to accept you into their training course? I think many people got their CPL to show their interest because it might give them an edge to be actually accepted into the scheme as there are so many who just are not even selected to start the program?

[cooperlim]

haha yup u are right, somehow i made up my mind, but that post was supposed to be in a email asking someone who has been it the airforce,
but anyway i thou it should be fine posting out for everyone advice,
cause i still have time to think. yup i will try for SIA but hope are not high, hahah who knows maybe i may end up in india :P

[cruisercruiser]

*Singapore, 3 September 2007* - Singapore Technologies Aerospace Ltd (ST
Aerospace), the aerospace arm of Singapore Technologies Engineering Ltd (ST
Engineering), today announced that it has signed a joint venture agreement
with Aviation Training Academy (Singapore) Pte Ltd (ATAS) to set up a
commercial pilot training academy in Singapore. The Singapore-based joint
venture company, known as ST Aviation Training Academy Pte Ltd (STATA), will
be majority owned by ST Aerospace with a 70% stake and ATAS, holding a 30%
stake. STATA will have a total investment of US$5.2 (about S$8m).
This investment is not expected to have any material impact on the
consolidated net tangible assets per share and earnings per share of ST
Engineering for the current financial year.
STATA will be operated and managed by ST Aerospace as a part of its global
network, drawing on ST Aerospace's aircraft engineering and military pilot
training expertise and ATAS' airline management and commercial pilot
training experience.
The academy will commence its ab initio flying training in Australia in
October 2007, and start the synthetic centric flight training at its Seletar
Airport facility in Singapore by early 2009. It will initially provide
traditional pilot training under the existing Commercial Pilot Licence (CPL)
and Air Transport Pilot Licence (ATPL) curricula, and eventually include a
Multi-crew Pilot Licence (MPL) programme upon endorsements from relevant
airworthiness authorities. The MPL programme offers advances in teaching
methodologies and simulation technologies in a multi-crew cooperation
environment over the traditional pilot training programme. This enables
pilots to be trained in half the time required compared to traditional
training.
*"There is a significant demand for pilots in Asia, propelled by the upturn
in the aviation industry and a record number of aircraft deliveries over the
next few years. STATA aims to seize an early mover advantage using the MPL
programme. It will leverage on ST Aerospace's expertise and connections, as
well as ATAS knowledge in the commercial pilot training. Overcoming this
supply shortfall, MPL training is a state-of-the-art approach, tailored to
meet today's airlines' requirements. It challenges the mindset shift from
conventional pilot training methodologies to that available under MPL, and
we are confident this evolutionary MPL programme will bring tremendous value
for the airline industry." ~ Eddie ONG, President, STATA*
*"The establishment of STATA allows ST Aerospace to build on our training
business and at the same time, broaden our Total Aviation Support value
proposition to aircraft operators. This extension of the training dimension
of our business will provide more avenues through which we can bring value
to our customers and enable them to focus on their core airline business.
This initiative is a demonstration of our ability to expand our value chain
- through collaboration with partners." ~ TAY Kok Khiang, President, ST
Aerospace*
According to Boeing, airlines around the world will require 17,000 new
pilots a year until 2024 just to keep up with new aircraft deliveries. In
2007 alone, airlines in Asia Pacific are estimated to require over 40,000
pilots while there may be a pool of only 30,000 trained pilots available.
With the advent of newer aircraft and the upturn of the industry, pilot
needs by airlines in Asia Pacific may grow to an estimated 75,000 over the
next five years. Annual pilot demand for the region could average at 6,750.
STATA is ST Aerospace's second commercial pilot training unit since the
acquisition of Sydney-based Pacific Flight Services Pty Ltd in April 2007.
Besides commercial training, ST Aerospace currently provides military pilot
training using the twin-engine King Air C-90 Beechcraft that was configured
to meet the Republic of Singapore Air Force's (RSAF) special training
requirements.
*ST Aerospace* is the aerospace arm of ST Engineering. Operating a global
MRO network with facilities in Asia Pacific, Europe and the US, it is the
world's largest airframe MRO with a global customer base that includes many
of the world's leading airlines, airfreight operators and military
operators. ST Aerospace provides a full spectrum of maintenance and
engineering services through its two business segments: Aircraft Maintenance
& Modification (AMM) and Component & Engine Total Support (CETS). Its
services include airframe, engine and component maintenance, repair and
overhaul; engineering design and technical services; and aviation materials
and management services, including Total Aviation Support. ST Aerospace has
a global staff strength of more than 6,000 engineers and technical
specialists. Please visit http://www.staero.aero/.
*ST Engineering* is an integrated engineering group providing solutions and
services in the aerospace, electronics, land systems and marine sectors.
Headquartered in Singapore, the Group reported revenues of $4.49b in
FY2006. With a market capitalisation of over $10b, it ranks among the
largest companies listed on the Singapore Exchange. ST Engineering has more
than 18,000 employees worldwide, and over 100 subsidiaries and associated
companies in 20 countries and 35 cities.
This comes as really good news. I do not have any info on the fees though.

[hopeful_pilot]

hey cruisercruiser, the new JV for pilot training is great news for all aspiring pilots! any idea on what is the criteria for intake? do they take in self-sponsored trainees or only those selected by sia? anyone can shed some light regarding cost, entry requirements, training program?

[training wheels]

The academy will commence its ab initio flying training in Australia in October 2007, and start the synthetic centric flight training at its Seletar Airport facility in Singapore by early 2009.
There's talk of this on the Australia and NZ forum (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=290691) with the school setting up its base in Ballarat, about 1 hour's drive west of Melbourne. Given that Tiger Airways Australia will be based in Melbourne, I'm wondering whether this new training school venture could be the breeding ground for tiger cubs? ;)

[visselhovede]

http://www.stengg.com/pressroom/press_releases_read.aspx?paid=1141
just keep a look out on thier website or newspaper......good news for us...i think many people will have these 3 questions

1. How much? ( any sponsorship?)
2. Entry criteria? (age limit?, qulification?)
3. Prospect? (any company hiring ppl from this course?)\

anybody has any update please post here.

[hopeful_pilot]

just wondering, how do we apply to join this program? cant seem to find any info abt it..anyone has any idea wat is the cost?

many thanks!

[cruisercruiser]

Hi hopeful,

Unfortunately I have no detailed info on the school that's going to be set up. What I posted was the press release by the company and that is all i know.

SIA is still training it's own cadets in SFC and there is no news whatsoever that says it's going to sub-con the training of it's cadets. Any comments on this?

I'm hoping the school is set up for private candidates. This will give us more options over and above what's available in malaysia...

Another point to note is that the press release did not name the authority that endorses the license. Only " relevant airworthiness authority" was mentioned. Let's wish CAAS recognise the license. Could the school provide CASA license (??)

cheers

[mingalababya]

Another point to note is that the press release did not name the authority that endorses the license. Only " relevant airworthiness authority" was mentioned. Let's wish CAAS recognise the license. Could the school provide CASA license (??)
cheers

The China Eastern cadets trained in Melbourne are issued with the Australian (CASA) license. I gather they then get their licenses converted to the Chinese equivalent when they go home.

This article from Flight International (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/08/28/216295/australian-open-skies.html) is interesting reading for those considering flight training in Australia. A quote from the article states the following about Australian flight crew qualifications;

Asia's airlines are increasingly sending their pilots to Australia for training, lured by an excellent climate, wide open spaces and internationally recognised qualifications

[cruisercruiser]

"...Australian qualifications that are internationally recognised. "
but not recognised in singapore! How ironical that CAAS endorses malaysian DCA license.

[thornycactus]

"...Australian qualifications that are internationally recognised. "but not recognised in singapore! How ironical that CAAS endorses malaysian DCA license.
101% true! Well said cruisecruiser!

[thornycactus]

just wondering, how do we apply to join this program? cant seem to find any info abt it..anyone has any idea wat is the cost?many thanks!
Let Cougar77 answer this. He claimed that he knows alot.

I won't let out any "clue" on this yet. Otherwise, people will always try to reason out what they knew. I am pretty sure there are many people knew about this.

[hopeful_pilot]

whos cougar77?

[training wheels]

Let Cougar77 answer this. He claimed that he knows alot.
I won't let out any "clue" on this yet. Otherwise, people will always try to reason out what they knew. I am pretty sure there are many people knew about this.
As I've said on another thread, if you really want to know, then why not just pick up the phone and call the parent company, ST Aerospace in S'pore? Easy .. otherwise, just wait a few months and I'm sure all will be revealed. No need to speculate about what anybody THINK will happen. They want your business, no doubt, so all will be revealed in due course. Just be patient. :)

[hopeful_pilot]

seems like there is not much hope for self-sponsored sporean CPL holders dont u think so?

even after completing the course and getting a CPL/fATPL, one must build up many hours of flying before even contemplating applying to an airline..

and it seems tt not many schs in australia are keen on hiring asians as instructors..

any suggestions?

[thornycactus]

seems like there is not much hope for self-sponsored sporean CPL holders dont u think so? even after completing the course and getting a CPL/fATPL, one must build up many hours of flying before even contemplating applying to an airline..and it seems tt not many schs in australia are keen on hiring asians as instructors..any suggestions?
Please use the forum search engine. Take your time to search and don't depend/wait for the answers.

Have you calculate:
1) the cost of travelling expenses to Australia?
2) the cost of full CASA CPL course fees?
3) the cost of living in Australia during your CPL course?
4) the cost of CASA FI rating course fee?
5) the cost of living in Australia while attending your FI rating course?

What have you learnt about the FI job opportunity in Australia? Since you already know the situation in Australia, then why do you still asked? After your CASA FI rating, it does not mean you will get a job offer in Australia! Also, don't forget, you will have to go through sickening CAAS licence conversion.

Have you calculate the cost of CAAS licence conversion? Do you know what is the major requirement for CAAS licence conversion?

The bottom-line is, you still need money-money-money! :ugh:

Again, if you want to be a pilot, don't be lazy to use forum search engine.:ouch:

[mingalababya]

seems like there is not much hope for self-sponsored sporean CPL holders dont u think so?
even after completing the course and getting a CPL/fATPL, one must build up many hours of flying before even contemplating applying to an airline..
and it seems tt not many schs in australia are keen on hiring asians as instructors..
any suggestions?

Hopeful_pilot, check out this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=292181). SFC is offering to sponsor newbie pilots for their CPL and CASA Instructors' Rating in return for service. Sounds like a great deal for anyone keen to instruct for a few years. My advice would be to contact SFC directly and find out more about this amazing opportunity. :ok: Good luck! :)

[Frenique]

BAck to the original topic.......where are all the self funded CPL/ATPL/IR sgrean holders? :confused:

[CHICKROACH]

hey there, just lucky to have passed by this site and finally i found out somewhere i think i can try getting good advices from. currently in massey university - atpl. THERE are many concerns and i hope you guys could help me.

1) due to the back log in hours the course is being delayed in flying and seriously - would u think it would be better to do flying at an aeroclub and at the same time do a bachelor in av. management? in the end you still get the CPL/MEIR/ ATPL - frozen BUT its at an aeroclub and also a degree...??
2) at the same cost which u pay for your second year cost fees - which is approximately 75k - which u will receive a CPL/MEIR at massey and to do an instruc. rating in your final year thats another 64k on top of that... OR - you could get both plus a C CAT rating at an aeroclub - prob canterbury or ardmore aero club/ flying school at just the same amount as your second year?
3) mainly cost is a factor here - i know its an expensive interest and risking it all seems just as fair to get a great future - but would someone please advice me on this - i am 21 this year - and i am not focusing on entering SQ but probably having an insturctor rating to gain hours and experience somewhere else before going down the path to the commercial airlines.... i love flying alot and it doesnt matter to me where i would go BUT its my parents paying and i want to be responsible on where i could go to get the best experience and a JOB after that with the current fees i am paying?

please help advice me on this....... thanks....

[HenC]

Anyone any news of STATA? http://www.staero.aero/www/newsevents_newsarticle.asp?newsid=OTAwMDAwMDExNA

I was looking to find if there are any opportunities for cadetship (flying instructor) but to no avail.

Cheers to all bros out there yah :D Pilots and wannabes alike.

[Ridox222]

I'm a self sponsored Singaporean, currently in RMIT Melbourne. Nice to meet all senior fellow Singaporeans who took this path. Honestly, how good are the chances of employment after completing the course? SQ seems a little far out of reach, I'm hoping for Jetstar Asia. What are the possibilities? Thanks!

[cruisercruiser]

Hi Everyone,

Here's an update on STATA:

http://www.stata.com.sg/index.htm

Unfortunately they're CASA compliant.

Cheers,

Cruiser

[hijack]

you probably need to find the right person.

Likely is that you either do your self sponsor FI or the FI scholarship.
Most likely the self sponsor as they have stop the scholarship due to too many jobs hoppers.

you can contact me thru my email m a i k o l e (at) hotmail dot com

[cougar77]

Most info are on the STATA website. Look through the FAQ's.
You basically have to go thru the entire CASA system and will obtain a CASA licence which is not recognised by CAAS. This setup is not to provide for aspiring pilots for SQ. It is for other SEA airlines mainly those in China that send their cadets there where they will then convert back to their China equivalent licences. This is also for self sponsored people who want to join Oz companies (but you need to make sure that you will have a right to work in Oz if you are not a resident in Oz).

The main thing that the website did not tell you is the cost of the course. Those of you that still aspire to join SQ/SIACargo/Silkair will still need to go thru the hoops of their selection process before starting off at SFC. For those wanting to join the LCC's eg. Tiger and Jet*, you will have to convert the licence to CAAS, however CAAS still does not recognise CASA's licence if you are Singaporean. You will need to take all the papers. CAAS may credit some of the flying that you underwent.

As for joining the airforce with a CPL. There is nothing written to reject an applicant if he/she holds a CPL. Anyway, lots of airforce guys are doing their own CPL/ATPL to join the commercial sector to pursue their 2nd career after their airforce "expiry date".

Think over very carefully as it is very very costly and make sure that you have lots of $$$.

[cougar77]

STATA is basically in competition with http://www.flighttrainingadelaide.com/ and http://www.waaviationcollege.com.au so you can perhaps use the costs involved for the course from either to get a rough idea. Take note that it will vary quite abit if you need more hours as the flying hours in the quote are the minimum in most cases.

Below is extract from WAAC:-

Course Fees - Overseas Students

Overseas students are offered a 200 hour course. The cost of flight training will vary, dependent on the student's rate of progress, but the following is a guide for the Advanced Diploma which includes a CASA Commercial Licence:
Flying Training in a C152 dual/solo (40 hours)$7880.00Flying Training in a C172 dual (40 hours)$8980.00Flying Training in a C172 dual night (15 hours)$3517.50Flying Training in a C172 solo consolidation (25 hours)$4062.50Flying Training in a M20J solo consolidation (40 hours)$7940.00Flying Training in a M20J dual (40 hours)$10940.00Landing fees$2820.97Air Nav Charges$836.00Briefings$947.70In house exams$22.00Student licence$285.00Licensing paperwork$50.00Student Manual$25.00Navigation Study Guide$25.00CPL Manual$25.00Handling Notes & Checklists$25.00Log Book$17.50CASA Class One medical$350.00Pilot Headset$420.00Navigation equipment$150.00Away Trip Levy$190.00Membership fees$150.00Administration $1000.00Advanced Diploma Course Fees$10573.00Total Investment for CPL Career (Theory & Flying)$61,232.17

[radflying]

hi any one here heard of this? I am singaporean with FAA ATP Multi-engine and instructor certificates, anyone out there looking to convert to CAAS license and looking for jobs with LCCs/YFC/SFC..etc?

AC FCL-1(1) - 1 - 1 November 2007

CONVERSION OF FOREIGN PROFESSIONAL PILOT LICENCES


10 POSSIBLE EXEMPTIONS AND CREDITS FOR THE TECHNICAL GROUP OF PAPERS
AND NAVIGATION GROUP OF PAPERS.
Holders of Foreign ATPL(A)
10.1 Holders of foreign ATPL(A) seeking to convert to a Singapore ATPL(A) must have at least
3,000 total flying hours, of which at least 500 hours must be on civil registered transport
aircraft certificated for multi-crew operation according to the manufacturer’s flight manual.
Such applicants are exempted from the Technical Group of papers and ATPL Navigation
Group of papers. Holders of foreign ATPL(A) meeting the 3,000 total flying hour requirement
but who have with less than 500 hours on civil registered transport aircraft certificated for
multi-crew operation may convert their licence to a Singapore CPL(A)/IR.
10.2 Holders of foreign ATPL(A) who do not have the flying experience as stated in 10.1 may sit for
the Performance A Paper in lieu of the Technical Group of papers and ATPL Navigation
Group of papers, for the purpose of converting to a Singapore CPL(A)/IR. Each applicant is
allowed a maximum of three attempts to pass the Performance A Paper, failing which the
applicant is required to pass the full set of Navigation Group of papers (See “Note” at end of
paragraph 10).
Holders of Foreign CPL(A)
10.3 Holders of foreign CPL(A) seeking to convert to a Singapore CPL(A) may sit for the
Performance A Paper in lieu of the Technical Group of papers and ATPL Navigation Group of
papers. Each applicant is allowed a maximum of three attempts to pass the Performance A
Paper, failing which the applicant is required to pass the full set of the Navigation Group of
papers. (See “Note” at end of paragraph 10).
Holders of Foreign ATPL(H)
10.4 Holders of JAR-FCL ATPL(H) issued by a JAA full member state or ATPL(H) issued by HK
CAD or DCA Malaysia seeking to convert to a Singapore ATPL(H) are exempted from the
Technical Group of papers and the ATPL Navigation Group of papers. (The list of JAA full
member states can be obtained from the JAA website at www.jaa.nl.)
10.5 Holders of ATPL(H) from other ICAO contracting states seeking to convert to a Singapore
ATPL(H) must have at least 1,500 total flying hours in helicopters on scheduled public
transport or charter operations on international routes, of which at least 700 flying hours must
be P1 hours with an established operator. These holders may sit for the Special Assessment
Paper (SAP) in lieu of the Technical Group of papers and ATPL Navigation Group of papers.
Holders of Foreign CPL(H)
10.6 Holders of JAR-FCL CPL(H) issued by a JAA full member state or CPL(H) issued by HK CAD
or DCA Malaysia seeking to convert to a Singapore CPL(H) are exempted from the Technical
Group of papers and the ATPL Navigation Group of papers. (The list of JAA full member
states can be obtained from the JAA website at www.jaa.nl.)
AC FCL-1(1) - 4 - 1 November 2007
Note: A pass in Performance A Paper that is taken under JAR-FCL issued by a JAA full
member state, or under HK CAD or DCA Malaysia will be considered as the
equivalent for the purpose of paragraphs 10.2 and 10.3 of this AC.

[sq906]

hi ladies and gentleman,

ive been following this thread quite closely as I'm one of those who self sponsored. Anyway, like i said on the title, i have leads to flight instructor opportunities. Don't have to have a FI rating, that will be sorted out. So if theres anyone genuinely interested, PM me ayte!:}

[cougar77]

Sq906

1. May i ask which location? Australia? Hope it is not somewhere in Africa as it is not a place for a low hour Singaporean.

2. Do you have to pay for the FI course or trade off by a bond? If so how much and how long?

3. What is the salary that can be expected?

4. Working days and hours?

I guess you should be able to post all these replies so that you will not get unneccessary PM's for those not interested in some of the above.