Singaporean self-sponsored CPL holders - where are you?

[demandpump]

I'm starting this thread for Singaporeans who had, for some reason or other, pursued and completed their own CPL training overseas. Where are you guys and gals now? Have you all managed to find a flying job at all?

Is there any hope for a local Singaporean CPL/ATPL holder with low hours to join budget carriers like Tiger, Valuair or Jetstar Asia?

I'm asking this because here in the little red dot, besides SQ and the air force, the aviation scene is as good as dead. People who aren't successful in joining SQ or the air force (like me) can pretty much kiss bye bye to their aviation dreams. Its a sad fact.

I'm interested to train for a CPL, but I know the chances of finding a job upon return is close to zero. And that's what's stopping me.

Any feedback from Singaporeans or otherwise, currently training for a CPL or who have already attained a CPL, would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Thermal Image]

Originally Posted by demandpump

I'm starting this thread for Singaporeans who had, for some reason or other, pursued and completed their own CPL training overseas. Where are you guys and gals now? Have you all managed to find a flying job at all?

Most have, but with varying degrees of frustration. I know people who have done their own CPL, get in, and get chopped. Try to network your way into SFC, there are a few there now, re-doing some or all of their ATPL.

Originally Posted by demandpump

Is there any hope for a local Singaporean CPL/ATPL holder with low hours to join budget carriers like Tiger, Valuair or Jetstar Asia?

No. Minimum time is about 1500TT jet hours.

Originally Posted by demandpump

I'm asking this because here in the little red dot, besides SQ and the air force, the aviation scene is as good as dead. People who aren't successful in joining SQ or the air force (like me) can pretty much kiss bye bye to their aviation dreams. Its a sad fact.

I'm interested to train for a CPL, but I know the chances of finding a job upon return is close to zero. And that's what's stopping me.

Any feedback from Singaporeans or otherwise, currently training for a CPL or who have already attained a CPL, would be appreciated. Thanks.

You know the odds, that's a good starting point. The cheapest option is to improve your chances of being selected as a cadet pilot. Personality is the biggest attribute, not too much you can do there if they interviewers don't feel that you have the x-factor. If you meet all the hard requirements (educational specs etc), you can also "buy" some credibility by doing a PPL in Johor, as some cadets have done to demonstrate "passion".

The race at this point for you, is really not about doing an ATPL and getting selected by SQ/MI/SinCargo. It is about being selected as a cadet pilot. Just like if you and your mates face a tiger in the jungle - you don't have to outrun the tiger, just your mates.

There is much information on this part of the forum about that. Do some reading.

[demandpump]

Originally Posted by Thermal Image

The race at this point for you, is really not about doing an ATPL and getting selected by SQ/MI/SinCargo. It is about being selected as a cadet pilot. Just like if you and your mates face a tiger in the jungle - you don't have to outrun the tiger, just your mates.

Thanks for the reply,
I forgot to add that I wasn't successful at the SQ final interview 5 years ago, so I can forget about cadet pilot.....moreover I'm at the wrong end of their age limit.

[demandpump]

Originally Posted by Thermal Image

Most have, but with varying degrees of frustration. I know people who have done their own CPL, get in, and get chopped.

Hi, what kind of jobs? In SIA? Or as instructors in one of the flying clubs? Has anyone of them joined foreign airlines?
Thanks.

[cochise]

Hey,
I was born in Singapore, my father was a training captain and then a line captain with SQ for over 23 years but since I held a foreign passport SQ denied me time and time again but I can't blame them as they have had problems with foreigners leaving them for the Sandpit once they had some time and a type.
The thing I found was that Singapore, as you said is very limiting unless you get on as a Cadet. I was fortunate enough to be able to live and work in a few other countries. I did everything short of stealing to build hours and am currently an FO on the Dash-8 in the Caribbean. It's definately not SQ but it's a job and I still enjoy going to work.
Goodluck.
P.S as always in Aviation, it's not what you know but who you know. So get out there, shake some hands, exchange email addresses and keep in touch. You never know who's going to be sitting on the other end of the table in the interview room!

[Thermal Image]

Originally Posted by demandpump

Hi, what kind of jobs? In SIA? Or as instructors in one of the flying clubs? Has anyone of them joined foreign airlines?
Thanks.

I'm referring to cadet pilots. At least one I know personally, had a CPL from Canada, had a bad attitude and got chopped just before the twin engine stage. Got chopped even though he was the nephew of some senior SIA management guy. Don't know what he's up to now.

There have been others, eg one who did his own CPL, was underaged so he waited out his time but was an instructor at the Flying College in the meantime, then joined SilkAir, crossed over to SIA, got his command, and now has left for another Asian carrier. Did very well, decent bloke, nice instructor, good operator, a lot of passion for flying. Totally deserved his success. Like the first example, he had a godfather in SIA Flt Ops which helped even more because he was a good guy.

There are many others who joined as cadet pilots with their own CPLs. There are also several with their own CPLs, tried to get in but could not, not because they were undeserving but because of high level politicking. For example, one decent chap was blocked by vindictive forces, even though he had a father in SQ who was a senior instructor. He flew for a while as an instructor with the Flying College, went on to a local government contractor flying Learjets, and is now with DragonAir(?) as a captain.

It's not impossible to fund your own CPL / ATPL, find work and be happy with it. But it is a very risky choice.

Well, so far somebody has indeed checked-in to say he had his own CPL and is happy with his lot. Maybe more will answer you and lift your spirits?

[AiRBuS_380]

Massey University

hi there, to give u guys some information on my career path as a private student for a personnel avaition course in new zealand.

join SIA 4 years ago when i was 25yrs old. been offered straight for leajet course then for my boeing conversion.i am those lucky ones which make it through the interview.i entered the industry with a degree in aivation(ATPL) and a degree in aviaiton management.i risk my whole life to this industry.gave up NUS or NTU admisioons.

i got a few friends who got chopped at certain stage. thus it really depends on how u see it. as for the world... with a ICAO reconigsed ATPL u can find manay career paths with other airlines. thus if u have the passion to fly be prepare to give up ur time in SIN for a while inorder to get your FO with other airlines.my frd who got chopped now flys with CX and even we hold the same rank his pay was so much better then mine but he uses his time in SIN to exchange for monitory assets...

have fun with flying.

seek other options if u really want to fly there are a certain number of airlines which i can tell u openly that offers to pple with cpl or atpl.
pm me and we will discuess more...

giving out everything to go to aviaiton...its my dream and it is yours too.

[demandpump]

Thanks for the replies and encouragement.

The thing is this. If I were to come back with my own CPL. I wouldn't be so keen to join SIA anymore. Several reasons:
1. I'll be too old for the cadet pilot selection
2. They wouldn't accept me, because my name is blacklisted. (Having failed the final interview many moons ago)
3. Even if they did take me in, I don't see any sense in me spending so much time and money to get my own commercial ticket, just to have to go through their training regime all over again. Too much time spent there.

I would rather (if at all possible) work for a regional or cargo operator, either up north, or down south to gain the hours. Never mind if they use an old musty, rusty tin can of a 737-200. Heck, I may even be flying russian aircraft. I believe there's more experience to be gained there.

But anyway, here's some background info of myself. I attained my restricted PPL a couple years ago after being bitten by the flying bug. Unfortunately I was not successful at the SQ final interviews. Discouraged and disappointed, I forced flying out of my mind, and vowed never to go near an airplane again. So I packed up, and went abroad to get an IT degree. I've been working in the IT sector for 2 years now. But my mind always wanders skywards, and I still secretly yearn to achieve that elusive dream.

As in the words of Leonardo da Vinci:
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

Once again, thanks for all the responses.

[billkill]

Originally Posted by cochise

Hey,
P.S as always in Aviation, it's not what you know but who you know. So get out there, shake some hands, exchange email addresses and keep in touch. You never know who's going to be sitting on the other end of the table in the interview room!

Got to agree with that. It so small a community that even news pass around very fast. It is true that knowing a few names can help...

[graco]

hi demandpump,

If you were to do your CLP where are you planing to go to get the training? Are you going to it full time or part time? I hope you don't mine me asking this questions.

Thanks..

[demandpump]

Originally Posted by graco

hi demandpump,

If you were to do your CLP where are you planing to go to get the training? Are you going to it full time or part time? I hope you don't mine me asking this questions.

Thanks..

Hi graco,
If I were to do it, then probably in Australia, full time.

[AiRBuS_380]

for your information

those who wish to fly singapore airlines and exempted from cadetship with direct entry as a 2nd officer,

CASA ATPL/IR is not reconisged with CAAS civil aviation authority singapore

With a australian atpl u will still need to go through cadetship with SIA
i will recommnand that those who wants to fly espcially with SQ massey university bachelor in aviaiton is a better choice. it is a 3 year program for those without aviaiton history and it cost about 100k but the plus point is that they issue u a straight conversion atpl. thats means u hold a NZ and SIN ATPL/IR

cheers

[Left Wing]

Singaporean locals,

if you speak Mandarin why not go fly in China, if you really want to fly so bad.

[demandpump]

Originally Posted by AiRBuS_380

CASA ATPL/IR is not reconisged with CAAS civil aviation authority singapore

I know...but I'm not too keen to join SQ anyway. I hope to work for a regional operator somewhere else. Turbo props are a lot more fun to fly, don't you think? Again, wishfull thinking on my part...

[AiRBuS_380]

Great way to Fly singapore airlines

have fun flying... being self spornspered is a risk... and yes i made it through my risk assesment and so can anyone out there... have a passion to fly and u can do it...
A380 here i come...

cheers...

for those who want to contact me or for any thing under the sun pls email me at [email protected]

the private messges took too long to load. thanks...

[RoSs|gnoL]

Hey fellas,

I just got an email asking me to attend the 1st interview for SQ on 17th Mar.

I did a Bachelor of Aviation(Flying) degree at the Uni of New South Wales in Sydney, graduated in Dec last year. Its a 3 year course, half spent doing academic subjects at uni, the other half in our own hangar training for up till CPL, ME-CIR and ATPL, in our own aircraft and with our own instructors. For those who are thinking of doing their flight training at uni, there may be some good news. My CFI and head of department were just here a few weeks ago during AA2006 checking on the feasibility of opening up a flight school here or in M'sia. The only problem is that it'll be sometime away, earliest being 2008.

[demandpump]

I was told that it would be cheaper to do a single engine CPL in Australia, and then hop on over to Malaysia to complete the MEIR and Malaysian ATPL theory. Is this true? Anyone done this before?

What sort of conversion or extra flying hours do we need in this sort of scenario before we can continue the MEIR training in Malaysia?

I was also told that the Malaysian ATPL is more recognised than the Australian one - at least in the Asian region anyway. Any truth in that?

Finally, would a Singaporean with a Malaysian ATPL stand any chance of finding employment in Malaysia?

Thanks!

[cochise]

Malaysia is a different place when it comes to employment. Like I said in my earlier post "it's not what you know but who you know". I learned that in Malaysia that "it's not who you know, but who knows you!" It's very hard to get in touch with people and arrange meetings with companies and they want experience on type. The usually only take direct entry captains if you're foreign.
In the end I got offered a job as an instructor with the Malaysian Flying Academy but ended up turning it down because I got my current job offer. You really have to have a few connections in Malaysia to get a job and as for a Singaporean I'm sure it will prove a lot more challenging!
There is one thing you're right about though...Turboprops are more fun! Sorry I just had to poke fun at the jet jocks!

[airbusboeingdriver]

hi everyone out there,

the aviation in sin is somehow improved now comparing to the time i was searching for my break. if you are equipped with a cpl/atpl, i would suggest you guys start picking up that phone and call. dont give up and waste the hard earned money you have invested in your cpl.

best of luck.

[cruisercruiser]

Malaysian Flying Academy

Hi dudes,

I've read the threads here about going to MFA for a CPL/IR. I've got a friend who drove all the way up north on a weekend to enquire about signing up. He was told that it's fully booked til April 2007 and was told to leave his name with 100+ other private students and they'll give him a call when there's a vacancy. Apparently AirAsia and MAS have been flooding MFA with students that they are operating at capacity. It seems like aviation in this region is really booming!

A bit of info about myself: I'm a SIA final round reject and like most of you here, am passionate about flying and am saving hard for the course up north or australia. I was told by some cadet friends who were ex classmates that they do not entertain 2nd round rejects like myself. So I had to look for alternative like those I've mentioned. I'm 28 this year and will need a few more years of saving before I can afford the fees. I guess by the time I get a CPL/IR I'll reach an old 32 or 33! I'll still presevere though.

I know an instructor in SYFC who advised me to seek a "written blessing" from the GM of SYFC that they'll employ me after I get my CPL/IR from MFA, before I embark on the course. I haven't done so since I'm still short of about 2/3 of the sum required! Any thoughts on the "written blessing" and clocking hours as a AQFI/QFI in SYFC? Any comments positive or negative most welcomed!

I would like to take this opportunity to look around for people who have flung the final SQ interview and yet got in some years later, either through the usual cadet way or through the long hard way of clocking hours as an instructor or bush piloting. I know there might be none! However I still harbour hopes that SQ will one fine day change their recruitment policy.

Hope to hear from you guys really soon!

cruiser