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Captain Airclues
28th Feb 2006, 23:36
It seems that BA are still unable to find a european operator who is able to fly their fourth freighter, and so have applied for yet another six month extension of their wet lease arrangement with Atlas. As this seems to be a permanent arrangement, I wonder if BALPA will demand 50% of the Atlas commands.

www.caa.co.uk/docs/213/1735.pdf

nitro rig driver
28th Feb 2006, 23:42
Why ?????
Atlas has many european pilots (both based in euro and usa) flying for them.
and also GSS has BA pilots flying for them aswell.
seems everyone is already flying for each other
why do balpa pilots have tobe protected

Holer Moler
1st Mar 2006, 06:19
British Aiways has to apply every six months to renew the application to wet lease a US registered aircraft. If the CAA receive enough objections the application will have to be rejected, the gap created in the market will leave another UK/Euro B747-400/200 freighter operator to bid for the contract. This will in turn create more work for UK/JAR Pilots and engineers.

If enough support is generated, the BA/Atlas application which is due to be renewed by the 31st Mar 2006 will be revoked. Can you imagine an UK reg aircraft operating in the USA. It just would not happen because the Americans would not allow it to happen (Period). Therefore if you want to safe guard UK/Euro jobs, then in your own words lodge your objection to (however short and sweet) to Mr Trevor Metson at the CAA by Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> or follow the original link at Captain Airclues thread.

Basil
1st Mar 2006, 10:06
I sent the following; if anyone wishes to copy&paste they're welcome:

Trevor Metson,
International Aviation Policy,
Economic Regulation Group,
Civil Aviation Authority,
CAA House, 45-59 Kingsway,
London WC2B 6TE

Dear Mr Metson,
BA, ATLAS AND GSS
OFFICIAL RECORD SERIES 2
NUMBER 1735, 21 FEBRUARY 2006
PART 3 FOREIGN REGISTERED AIRCRAFT
You will be aware that, at one time, Atlas, an American freight airline was contracted to carry freight on behalf of British Airways. This was a long term arrangement and met with objections from British pilots who felt that they, and not foreign pilots, should be employed to carry out this work.
Following these representations a 51% British owned company, Global Supply Systems, was set up to carry BA freight and was staffed with British employees. In recent years, due in part to the expansion of the Chinese economy, the volume of freight available to the long-range world market has steadily increased with the result that BA requires another Boeing 747 freighter in order to cope with the expanding business opportunities to China and Chicago.
GSS operate three UK registered aircraft on behalf of British Airways World Cargo. A fourth aircraft a US registered and crewed Atlas B747-200F also operates for BAWC under a wet lease agreement. BA, instead of availing themselves of another aircraft on the British register and employing British crews, have asked yet again to extend this lease, applying at a late date perhaps to reduce opportunities for objection.
Last year European Aviation Air Charter of Bournemouth made several Boeing 747 pilots and flight engineers redundant. These are still unemployed but B747 qualified and immediately available for work.
As a Merchant Navy officer, RAF officer and airline captain I am aware that US protection of their own transport systems is legendary and I feel that we should respond in kind.
May I request that you withold approval of this foreign charter to BA until all avenues leading to operation of a British registered B747 employing British crews have been fully explored.
Yours sincerely,
cc:
Secretary of State for Transport: Rt Hon Alistair Darling MP
Shadow Sec of State for Transport: Mr Chris Grayling MP

742
1st Mar 2006, 11:29
,,,Can you imagine an UK reg aircraft operating in the USA. It just would not happen because the Americans would not allow it to happen (Period)....

It happens all the time. "Code Sharing" has morphed to include operations that are wet leasing in all but name. And as for protecting EU jobs, one might be careful for what one wishes for. As already mentioned, Atlas employess a significant number of European pilots. Far more than one or two airplanes worth.

tristar500
1st Mar 2006, 15:52
Just another way of BA saving money for its magnificent T5... If it can get away with it - it will. By leasing out the cargo contract (whatever the length of contract) BA will save millions. The loop-hole will continue to be breached and the management at 'Waterworld' will congratulate themselves on getting away with it - again...:mad:

Thunderball 2
1st Mar 2006, 18:59
The availability of suitably-qualified aircrew means nothing. Grounds for objection must involve the availability of an aircraft for those pilots to fly, controlled and operated by a UK/EU airline.

If there WAS a UK airline with B747-200F, -300F, or 400F capacity available to operate this service, then this airline would be objecting. Clearly there is not. If the CAA listened to your objections and denied an extension of this consent, the Atlas aircraft would simply be re-deployed to another contract somewhere else in the world.

With the greatest respect Basil, the CAA have no mandate whatsoever to "withold approval of this foreign charter to BA until all avenues leading to operation of a British registered B747employing British crews have been fully explored."

What are you suggesting they do; set up their own airline? :confused:

Basil
1st Mar 2006, 19:43
A refusal of permission to operate a foreign registered aircraft may have the effect of concentrating minds; perhaps to the extent of equipping GSS with a further B744F.
BA would have been quite happy to continue giving all their freight work to Atlas and it took pilot pressure to encourage the formation of GSS and give the work to EU crews.
The possibility of GSS operating a B747-200F has, I believe, been investigated but the board and DFO are, understandably, not keen to introduce another type, to the detriment of flexibility.
I do not work for GSS and would prefer further comment to come from those closer to the problem.

Thunderball 2
1st Mar 2006, 19:55
Okay, again I support the sentiment 100%, but unfortunately there is a severe world-wide shortage of B747-400Fs right now with ANY powerplants - and GSS would need CF6-80 for commonality.

So extremely difficult to see any amount of pressure leading to a favourable result for UK aircrew employment in the short term. Only outcome of rejection by CAA would be a loss of market share by BA, and an appeal to the Secretary of State by BA - which would of course succeed.

Avius
1st Mar 2006, 20:34
Here is my reply to Mr.Metson:


Trevor Metson,
International Aviation Policy,
Economic Regulation Group,
Civil Aviation Authority,
CAA House, 45-59 Kingsway,
London WC2B 6TE

BA, ATLAS AND GSS
OFFICIAL RECORD SERIES 2
NUMBER 1735, 21 FEBRUARY 2006
PART 3 FOREIGN REGISTERED AIRCRAFT



Dear Mr Metson,

The reason for my Email is the recent -and might I note unjust- extension by the CAA for the Atlas Air Operated Aircraft on behalf of British Airways World Cargo.

Without a doubt you are aware of the history surrounding the Atlas and BAWC and the incorporation of Global Supply Systems Ltd. as a result of BALPA's intervention.

What you might not be aware of is that GSS is ready to accept another Aircraft to replace the existing Atlas Air B747-200F aircraft. As you might imagine, however, GSS needs some lead-time to implement the transition. Therefore GSS requires a commitment from BAWC to carry their freight and from Atlas Air to source the required Aircraft. In the recent history (during which the CAA extensions was in effect) Atlas Air offered the availability of a fourth B747-400F aircraft, which GSS had to reject due to lack of commitment on the BAWC side.

Ironically, the commitment by BAWC seems to resurface around the time, that the extension of the Atlas Air contract becomes due for renewal, citing that the requirements currently cannot be fulfilled by GSS. This seems to be a strategical coincidence, designed not to give GSS enough preparation time to implement the transition.

I believe it is reasonable to extend a Foreign Carrier contract one ore possibly two times, especially when it benefits BAWC or any other UK company, but the current situation is beyond the reasonability as it becomes de-facto a status quo. I might add, that it also undermines the credibility of the approving authority.

In the recent World Economic Forum in Davos the BA Chairman of the Board critically noted the current nonexistence of reciprocity of the "Open Skies" Agreement, which further more underlines the point I would like to make with this message.

May I request that you withhold approval of this foreign charter to BA until all avenues leading to operation of a British registered B747 employing British crews have been fully explored.

Yours sincerely,

Basil
1st Mar 2006, 23:58
Thunderball,
Good point but one has to try. I stand to gain nothing - stuck in my tuppenceworth on request from ex colleague.
If I may make so bold and subject to not blowing your cover, do you have a particular interest? e.g. commercial, political, CAA, etc?

CargoOne
2nd Mar 2006, 10:59
A well informed colleague of mine told me that very recently MK Airlines managed to get UK AOC.
They have several -200s and probably some of them will be transfered into G-register (this is just my guess). This would mean some availability on UK market however it doesn't mean automatically that MK would be objecting Atlas.