Sabre Rattling?

[BossEyed]

Falkland fear as Argentina steps up show of strength (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=296232006)
Argentina 'arrests' British squid trawler
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/26/wsquid26.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/02/26/ixworld.html) - trivial news or not?

[Safety_Helmut]

It is nothing but rumour spread by WEBF to win a reprieve for SHAR.

S_H

[James Bond]

Are there any Vulcans still in mothballs? Or Vulcan pilots come to that! :E

[k3k3]

How are the guys getting on in Bruntingthorpe?

[tonkatechie]

"Several planes are believed to have overflown island airspace in a bid to test RAF defences."
They did this a lot when I was down there last year - but only as far as up to the edge of the exclusion zone, before getting the message that they should 'poke off', by the presence of one of our F3.
"The British military presence in the South Atlantic has dropped from 1,900 troops in 1998 to 1,200"
Hardley surprising, considering the British forces as a whole have reduced in size. It's not as if the "20,000-strong British presence in Germany" can't be re-deployed as and when they're needed. (Cue sarcastic comments about u/s VC-10, can't get blokes back from Iraq etc, blah, blah). The point is, that whether the Argentine air force has increased in size or not, they'd still be daft to try it on again.
Of course, our illustrious leader could always call the bluff of George dubya, and echo his use of the NATO article about one country getting attacked and everyone else having to join in the subsequent fight...:rolleyes:

[JTIDS]

We have British Squid Trawlers?!?!

Last time I was down there they were nearly all South Korean :bored:

[Wyler]

More likely this is being stirred up by the locals on the Falklands. They are paranoid that the Forces are going to abandon them and so, every so often, a crisis appears on the horizon (literally) to give them chance to bang their drum.
Remeber chuckling down at MPA when having a drink with an Army chum. He was off home after his 6 month stint defending the isalnds against Argentina, to get some leave before his next job...Staff College in Buenos Aeries (sp?)!!

[Smoketoomuch]

TonkaT sez:

"our illustrious leader could always call the bluff of George dubya, and echo his use of the NATO article about one country getting attacked and everyone else having to join in"

Unfortunately articles 5 and 6 of the NATO treaty make it clear that the mutual defence agreement only applies when an attack occurs north of the Tropic of Cancer.

Now I know that when the Falklands were invaded in 1982 the whole world uttered a collective gasp of "Huh? Where?" -- but I suspect a few more people now know where they are -- even the Yanks:)

[Styron]

Let the Argies try it, one submarine full of Tomahawks could ground their airforce and cripple their military.

Also given that 80 Royal Marines caused them so much problems last time, I would think twice given there is a substantial garrison of over 1200 military there now.

Here's the UK Falklands Garrison.
http://www.army.mod.uk/img/156tpt/mpa%204.JPG

[dallas]

Styron

Nice picture - perhaps you could label it with key points like ground defence features and SAM sites? I'm sure there will be some very interested readers somewhere...

Oh a few lat and longs would be nice too - someone I know was asking about IPs - guess he meant Interesting Places?

:hmm:

[Docfly]

Dallas, if you want that kind of info just Google it!

[Styron]

Heres a picture of the mighty Argentine Pucara, especially for our South American Viewers :LOL:

http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~cyberheritage/fal14.jpg

[Mad_Mark]

Dallas, if you look at the source of the photo you will see it is from the Army website - i.e. it is open source

MadMark!!! :mad:

[dallas]

...and there they were trying to convince me the Argie hordes were going to attack at any minute. Yeah, the FI are full of contradictions - jets at x minutes readiness and a workforce Stella'd most nights.

I would say the most useful thing I gained from my 4 months was seeing a convincing argument against Jointery. We undoubtedly need to integrate to some degree, but keep the specialists in their own field. It did seem that someone was experimenting by putting the Navy in air ops, the Army were something to do with landing craft/ships and the RAF were dicked every Sat morning to do infantry training. Add to that a 4 to 6 month turnaround and it's Krazy Klowns Kalamity Koncepts every time something out of the ordinary happened...

[16 blades]

Mayhap this all has something to do with the VERY large amounts of oil that will soon be flowing from under FI territorial waters.....

[JTIDS]

Just checked, the place is pretty damn clearly marked up on Google Earth, with frighteningly accurate Lat and Longs...

[Grimweasel]

Dam Argies!!
Still this will create a good buying opportunity for FOGL shares (Falkland Oil and Gas) as it will be a good time to purchase at a discount if they fall.
Reports say they suspect the oil reserves in the FI area to be larger then the UAE! This would create the fourth largest oil producing nation in the world. Buy now, while they are cheap is my advise!!

[zedder]

Don't mention the oil or it will be George that will invade;)

[Out Of Trim]

Just been looking on Google Earth, Quite interesting.. then went and looked at Argentina and saw a huge complex of some kind here:

45Deg 46'38 S
67Deg 40'18 W

Anyone know what this place does?

[Safety_Helmut]

Don't mention the oil or it will be George that will invade
Galloway or Bush ?

S_H

[Smoketoomuch]

OoT; I've copied the post below from Google forums, if you turn on 'community' in GE then you get little flags popping up.
btw, if you post lat/long in the form 45 46.38 S 67 40.18 W
then it can simply be pasted into the Google earth search bar.

===================
Hi,
I live near there. All that holes were made with petroleum rigs. All that fields belong to petroleum operators as Repsol YPF and CAPSA.
Some of them still have petroluem, others are out of productions.
Regards,
-Matias
====================

[Out Of Trim]

Smoketoomuch

Thanks for that - very interesting - Cheers!

Out Of Trim

[Wycombe]

That pic has just reminded me of what a lovely looking place the Deathstar is!

[pr00ne]

One tiny hint of an Argentinian move against the Falklands and the IMF would leave the country totally bankrupt-simply aint gonna happen.

[Talking Radalt]

Also given that 80 Royal Marines caused them so much problems last time.....
"so much problems".....:E
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/falklands/british-prisoners-1.jpg

[Maple 01]

That photo was taken after they were told to surrender by Rex Hunt to prevent any loss of civilian life (imagine 7.62 and 50 cal flying around Stanley's housing stock) so it's a little unfair, they weren't doing too badly up to that point. (took out at least one Amphibious APC)

[Tourist]

I think it is a cheap shot to mock the Booties under the circumstances. Talking Radalt.
80 people 9000 miles from home against an entire invasion force with absolutely no chance of relief in the next couple of months.
I'd say that taking a stand, killing some of the vastly superior Argentinian force (both numerically and in terms of firepower) before being ordered to surrender by Rex Hunt makes them worthy of great respect, not mockery.
The RAF does not like it if any of your boys who are in harms way are bantered, so feel free to apologise to some very brave gentlemen.

[timex]

Talking Radalt

"so much problems".....

Guess you were in the firefight with them, you obviously know so much about it............or not.

[GeeRam]

I think it is a cheap shot to mock the Booties under the circumstances. Talking Radalt.
80 people 9000 miles from home against an entire invasion force with absolutely no chance of relief in the next couple of months.
I'd say that taking a stand, killing some of the vastly superior Argentinian force (both numerically and in terms of firepower) before being ordered to surrender by Rex Hunt makes them worthy of great respect, not mockery.
The RAF does not like it if any of your boys who are in harms way are bantered, so feel free to apologise to some very brave gentlemen.

Well said.

And in case anyone didn't know, said details of what the 80 did against 4,500 can be found on the RAF's own website here :ok: http://www.raf.mod.uk/falklands/inv1.html

[OOpsIdiditagain]

In my year down south this sort of sabre rattling was relatively frequent. On one occasion they sent one of their ships into the Falklands Econimic zone to check licences. This so enraged the locals they wanted to order warning shots across the bows etc. There were also several incurions into the FICZ all of which our mighty F3 boys with help from the CRC headed off at the pass. The point? If we fail to react to each and every bit of posturing we may end up giving some dullard Argie the idea we are no longer interested and find another rude dawn chorus off of York Bay. So do we stay and defend or bugger off and leave them to it? I'm all for the former as my year was a real hoot and one of the best of my 24 years so far. One of the few places left where one can be treated like an adult with leaders who are up to the task!........Discuss

[dallas]

One of the few places left where one can be treated like an adult with leaders who are up to the task!

Er, sorry, you're talking about the Falkland Islands in the South Atlantic, right? I must have been somewhere else...

[OOpsIdiditagain]

Sorry Dallas.

I stand corrected fro a universal statement. I just worked for some great guys and have a brilliant team working for me which in my line of work is most unusual....the boss I mean.

[Talking Radalt]

Sorry if anyone was/is offended.
I won't deny I think they did a great job as portrayed in the BBC drama "An Ungentlemanly Act" although some wag will probably come along and shoot that down as complete hoop as well.
From what I've read/heard/been told the surrender was the source of a great deal of frusatration amd disappointment.
(Oh and Timex, I never professed to "know so much about" events of '82.:rolleyes:)

[timex]

(Oh and Timex, I never professed to "know so much about" events of '82.)

I know, just thought you were taking the proverbial.:)

[West Coast]

Does the UK have the:

Logistical ability to do it again?
The political will?
The support of the public?
The ability to do so with commitments elsewhere?

[Wycombe]

IMHO, yes to the first 3, for sure (not so sure about the 4th, although a lot of the assets required would be of a different nature to those currently employed in other parts of the World).

- I think we actually have more large ships able to land/airland a force than in '82.
- Tony B has not been shy to (over)commit UK forces to a cause he believes in. Many a time here is likened to Maggie T in trousers (but with probably less balls overall!)
- I think the British public would support this more than some of our other more recent overseas Military adventures

BUT, MPA and especially the airfield would be critical, from both an Air Defence (which would have to be land-based since the imminent demise of the SHAR) and logistics/re-supply standpoint.

In addition to the issue of sovereinty, we all know now that there is another reason why the Islands and their surrounding waters are more "valuable" than they were 25 years ago (mention that word and I sure GWB and the boys from Amerada Hess will be running to our aid)

[Out Of Trim]

Yes! We'd do it all right and it would be a bit harder in some respects logistically.. W'ed have to be damn sure to keep the airfield functioning or things could get Nuclear pretty quickly!

However, we'd probably have to hit the Argentine mainland rather than just keep it to the Falklands if it did happen again!

[Talking Radalt]

Logistical ability to do it again?
Possibly

The political will?
Not really, unless George says it's a good idea or the electorate don't agree with it (see number 3)

The support of the public?
This is inversely proportional to number 2. It also depends if The Sun decide some washed-up soap star sex scandal photo confession diary shocker revelation is more worthy of the front page that day.

The ability to do so with commitments elsewhere?
Not really.

[West Coast]

"or things could get Nuclear pretty quickly!"

Doubtful.

[Out Of Trim]

West Coast

Yes, you're right - Very doubtful! I guess. But, you could expect cruise missiles to be used in this day and age and obviously the Nuclear option would be very much a last resort if things were going very badly for us.

I really hope they don't try anything; but, you have to show resolve and let them know you mean business.

What do they expect us to do? Just walk away!

Too much at stake now, with the hopes of Oil in the region.

[West Coast]

I'm sure every weapon short of nukes would be on the table if it fit a particular mission.

Even if things went very pear shaped, I don't envision a nuclear option over the islands. Either you're going to pollute the islands beyond habitability, or the mainland will be nuked. I don't think the UK (or anyone else) would have the stomach for it.

[Oggin Aviator]

Interesting .... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4780192.stm) Discuss.

[Halfwayback]

The recent siezure of a British squid fisherman in International waters has caused the FI some concern.

They have been issuing fishing licences for some years now and it has generated much wealth in the islands. However, Argentina have declared that the FI are 'stealing' Argentine fish and has started to dispute the areas claimed by the FI.

This has happened a number of times before - particularly with regard to the oil exploration on the Burdwood Bank.

Britain and in particular the FCO has a poor history in this area of the world and they gave all the wrong indications in 1982 (Shackleton Report q.v.). Having taken part in the fall, and the subsequent recovery, of those islands then I would not wish to see Britain paying the cost in lives and money again as a result of another blunder by the FCO.

HWB

[Wrathmonk]

Liam Fox wouldn't be WEBF per chance ....!;)

[tonkatechie]

See thread http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=213006
No doubt just keeping the story alive to make sure the government doesn't give the wrong impression about our intents, like they did in '82

[Navaleye]

Out of Trim,

I'm not a PI , but I'd say you were looking at a mining/aggregates facility. The location does not conform to any major Arg airbase. No signs of miltary activity.