WJ Pilots Ratify Contract

[jumpy737]

So while the OAC and CDN pilots fight amongst themselves, the WJ pilots have shown their cohesiveness by voting 95% in favour of the new contract. This contract is zero cost to the company and is very innovative in both compensation and scheduling. So for all the naysayers out there that said the culture will not last once profit sharing is reduced....well here's the proof.
Great job by the association in addressing the concerns of ALL the pilots. :ok: :ok: :ok:

[BLZD1]

Congrats Guys!

Any chance you guys could show us your new pay scale. I work for another lowcost carrier in Canada and just want to compare numbers. It is time to increase pilot salaries in Canada to a fair wage!

[slowstream]

jumpy737,

Well good for you guys but I don't believe things are not that good in Camelot.

I don't care for the slamming and the negative that often goes with some sights and I will try not to go into the gutter too much here. You know when something does not feel right? You can feel it in your gut so to speak....right? Well that's kind of how Westjet feels, too much effort on trying to make it appear all rosy and sweet when it's not and nor can it be, because things don't add up...............1+1 still = 2 no matter how you dress it.

I know, understand and accept that there are no guarantee’s in the world today or that there ever was, but the only people at Westjet who have it made in the shade so to speak again is Clive and the first 100 employees who have won big............and good for them they took the risk and won. But to continue to try and sell the company as a Camelot as they have continued to do so is such a load of B.S. The new hires in the past have been brow beaten into purchasing stock and I expect they are somehow still pushed into it. You fine people have no security, the new hires face long waiting periods before they see the left seat just as with your competitors and you have no retirement plan or system.

I'm not pursuing employment at Westjet because I have serious concerns about how things are run there and I guess that's my business and concern, but I still see guys out there buying into and drinking the Kool-aid from management. In the end the only people laughing and have it made for retirement is Clive and a few others.

I would be interested in seeing and hearing about your new agreement too, although I don't know how they even sell you on that one, you have no representation, no union and no right to take action against the company even if you didn't like the offer. If you guys are truly happy with things there and your new pay structure then good for you, I hope that you and Westjet are able to prove me wrong. I hope you folks are able to enjoy a long and rewarding career there and that you have something to live on after you can't fly anymore.

I hope that you Westjet people didn't take this as gutter slamming against your company, it wasn’t meant to be, just some honest thoughts and observations. Good luck to you folks.


Slowstream

[jumpy737]

You know, from the outside looking in it does appear that things do not add up at WestJet. I had soo many friends call me when I was at Jazz telling me how great it was and I responded with a measure of scepticism. When I felt the need to come back out west I applied and the rest is history. One thing that I found when I got here is the common respect that managers have for pilots and pilots have for managers. As they say "it's not rocket science". I can see how the cool aid threads start because it's hard not to want to tell people how great it is here because we've all been at companies that weren't so great and it's a breath of fresh air. I enjoy going to work and enjoy the people I get to spend 4 or 5 days with. I get to fly a really amazing A/C, the NG, and I get to go to some really unique places thanks to our agreement with Air transat. I was lucky enough to upgrade fairly quickly and I remain positive that things will continue to do well here, although I'm not dumb enough to think that the expansion will continue forever.

Things had started to go downhill a little with the lack of profit sharing and the option lift and some (including myself) started to casually enquire elsewhere. I don't think you'll see that now as many of the pay and lifestyle issues have been addressed. Look around at the other forums and compare what you see at the LCC's in Europe. Now that gives me an uneasy feeling especially RYR and Easy. I don't think that the management styles are at all comperable at WJ to the other LCC, where we still have a great dialogue with management and issues get resolved.

BTW, your wordy rant against WestJet is offensive and I take it personally that some things are just not true. WestJet has never sold itself as a Camelot. We are in a risk-sharing venture that is not for everyone. Now we will get to choose the level of risk that we are comfortable with. Sure some day one guys and Clive have done well, but they don't sell that to new-hires nor do they promote it as a guarantee. They do tell you that the potential is there and if you are comfortable with the risk you would have made a great WestJetter.

While your pro-union bias is apparant, I'll let you know how they filled us in and "sold" us. Both our association (WJPA) and management jointly presented the new contract at 6 different meetings with most going in sceptical and coming out sold. How's that for leadership? Our respresentation is direct and very benefitial to the pilots at WestJet. ALPA was great as an association for our profession but very poor at benefitting indevidual pilots in Canada. Anyway, details will emerge in the next few days that will fill you in.

Cheers.

[royalterrace]

slowstream

Slow day? Why the need to point out to anyone that will listen that WestJet is no Camelot. By the way , by your own admission you speak from a very limited knowledge base. I certainly have no desire to fill you in on our deal and I hope no one else will waste their time either because you will just try to twist it to your own agenda.

Apparentley you're happy where you are. So am I . Lets leave it at that.

[slowstream]

jumpy737,

Sorry that you took offense, really and truly, none was meant!

Thanks for the truly good, honest and intelligent reply, it's very refreshing and insightful. I appreciate it.

To set the record straight, I'm anything but pro-union, I grew up despising them and I see many more negatives than positives with them; I think you said it best with that they did or do very little for the pilots as individuals but I am not in that position to adequately comment. I have many friends in both Westjet, Jazz and mainline who I respect; I was simply attempting to point out some issues that many people outside of Westjet regularly comment on and few ever ask the people there. But then there is always that degree of B.S & company propaganda that one never knows quite where the line is.

Anyhow, I could never afford the pay cut and I won't pretend or posture for a for a point that could never be a reality. Once again I'm sorry, I really meant no offense and I do appreciate the insight and your excellent reply. As I said in my previous post I do hope that it works well for you guys and I wish you all luck.

[lawndar]

So, for those of us without internal recomends, what is the rough outline of the new agreement?

[ea306]

Congratulations to all you there at WestJet.
I have heard some very interesting tidbits... but not being an employee of WestJet I shall refrain from posting. Look forward to hearing how your new agreement works. Your improved renumeration formula I think will also help others in this industry here in Canada. That is good news for everyone.

[B757FO]

So while the OAC and CDN pilots fight amongst themselves, the WJ pilots have shown their cohesiveness by voting 95% in favour of the new contract. This contract is zero cost to the company and is very innovative in both compensation and scheduling. So for all the naysayers out there that said the culture will not last once profit sharing is reduced....well here's the proof.
Great job by the association in addressing the concerns of ALL the pilots. :ok: :ok: :ok:

jumpy737 I here your excitement but I got to ask something. Since you are a part owner do you feel a personal drive for the airline to succeed I mean we all want to have jobs but. In my eyes a contract that has zero cost to the company is just that. Don't get me wrong though I think its great you are all driven to have the company succeed but if your stock drops again and your profit sharing were to disappear does your new contract address this issue? We have seen the pay disputes on other threads about WJ but it just seems odd being on the outside trying to understand why you don't grab hard cash as opposed to relying on the company to do well for your salaries. Its probably my ignorance about your contract which is why I ask. Is the new contract incentives for pilots based on better skeds and profit sharing only? Did the salary issue get addressed at all? Curious. Congrats though good to see no hatred between the pilots and the company.

B757FO

[eastern700]

I hope this helps there are 4 different ways to get payed all depends on the risk you want to take, as you might know the Pilots recieve stock options so you can take 100% of the option or as low as 25% of the option. Based on 25% a year 1 CApt $105500 F/O $40000(3yr78800)
10 Capt $153500 5yr F/O $85200

Regarding days of min of 14/15 days of per month depending on 30 or 31 day month
Pay for Training also.

It is actually a 6.25 % raise apx.

Been here 4yrs it is a good job the flight ops dept are one of the best I have seen (5 airlines so far)

hope this helps

[B757FO]

I hope this helps there are 4 different ways to get payed all depends on the risk you want to take, as you might know the Pilots recieve stock options so you can take 100% of the option or as low as 25% of the option. Based on 25% a year 1 CApt $105500 F/O $40000(3yr78800)
10 Capt $153500 5yr F/O $85200

Regarding days of min of 14/15 days of per month depending on 30 or 31 day month
Pay for Training also.

It is actually a 6.25 % raise apx.

Been here 4yrs it is a good job the flight ops dept are one of the best I have seen (5 airlines so far)

hope this helps

Nice to see a raise for you guys. Thanks for the info.

B757FO

[b612]

You say it's a 6.25% pay raise but the normal hours flown also increases by 6.25% (80 to 85). At least you aren't in limbo as much with the new payscales, but I'd love to have seen the pilots actually gain something from the company. All pilots in Canada would gain from that.

[jdp911]

That is true, however, we are now paid hourly with an 80 hour minimum, so we did in fact see a raise as anything over the 80 hours will be paid at our hourly rate.;)

[jumpy737]

We also do more hours in fewer days with more guaranteed days off. This is the result of the flying being made more efficient which is what we were after in the first place. Most of us don't mind working harder if we get more days at home to spend with family and friends. We also take much less risk in our compensation with more real money in our jeans so it's really a win-win situation. Did I mention that I really like this new deal? :ok:

[brucelee]

What's happened to the profit sharing program? That deal made millionaires out of some pilots.

[royalterrace]

What's happened to the profit sharing program? That deal made millionaires out of some pilots.

Profit sharing has'nt made millionaires out of anyone at WestJet.

It's still in place though , exactly as before.

[brucelee]

Terrace.
I believe you but some of your colleagues on another forum claimed that profit sharing made some guys millionaires, at worst paid off the mortgage. I know that people like to egxagerate, especially on forums, so thanks for clearing it up. Still, I think the early pilots at WJ did quite well. Profits are still there but won't make anybody rich anymore which is why I think it's important that you guys negotiated a descent salary to rely on for income.

[royalterrace]

Well I suppose some guys could have paid their mortgage off with profit share but they would'nt have had much left owing. Profit share is paid twice/year. The most I have ever seen was a little over $9000 after tax for the Fall profit share.
The other point is that the amount of profit share you recieve is based on your salary. Therefor , larger salaries this year will also result in larger profit share checks.

[CaptW5]

The guys that did really well are the ones that either cashed in their options and/or their ESP shares at the right time.

[brucelee]

Well, at any rate, maxing out at $160 grand a yr in the left seat of a 737 is pretty damn good. For once, I have to give Clive some credit. That is what AC pay the left seat A320 and it's a bigger plane. Although the AC guy will move on to bigger planes and bucks before he retires. Can't really make the comparison.:D

[Thunderbird4]

Why do you pilots in NA get hung up on this bigger plane thing? What difference does it make the size of the aircraft? You are either a Captain or FO or SO etc.

If you fly a 747 with 80 passengers on board (I've flown one with as little as 30) or a 737 with 100 passengers on board are you more responsible on the bigger plane and therefore should be given a bigger paycheck?

Oh and good for you guys and girls at WJ - whatever it takes to keep you happy is great management philosophy in my book.

[RegLemelin]

Agree about the airplane size thing, blame the legacies for setting up the pay so that it makes such a big difference.

Having said that, if/when WJ gets some larger craft, I would be surprised if we don't keep a status pay system (same pay on both types). If for no other reason than the huge training bills incurred by having to re-train people so often.

[brucelee]

I don't know where you guys are from (frankly not even sure what planet) but in NA, "legacy" carriers pay you by a formula which includes number of pax and weight of airplane among other factors. Size does matter when you work at a place like that unless there is something called status pay which I believe BA has. In that case, size does not matter. And size does not matter if you work for WJ where there is only one type. There are arguments for and against both status pay and formula pay. I tend to like the stautus pay system but will probably never see it at AC.