SIA CARGO

[Warden777]

Hi folks,
On the ineterview u will get lots of information which are not covering the future.
-AV. flying hours: 30h monthly.
-20 days away from Singapore.
-paxing 60-80 h
-no cocession travel,
-free ticket - u have to pay 15% income tax + airport tax,will cost U 800S$!!!
-company is changing profit sharing scheme (will be much less thhan at the beginnig)
more question pls

[Round D. Globe]

Wow- That sure seems contrary to what others have reported.

Is this info you received from the SIA DEC interview? Or somewhere
else?

RDG

[Left Coaster]

Funny, doesn't look like any rosters I've heard of or seen...sure you're not in the "Bad Books? Quite an attitude you're sporting there...:rolleyes:

[F Dolarhyde]

Well...
Been with SIA Cargo about a year now as DEC.
Average flying hours after I finished training are 54 (including months with leave).
Average positioning hours 16. (Except for two trips it's all been in first or buisiness class).
Average days off per month 11 (contract says min 8 though). Lots of quality time on the road e.g golf in LA, skiing in ANC, safaris in JNB etc. Definitely the least stressful job I've ever had...
Of course it would be bad if they capped the bonus since it's a lot of money but no confirmation of that yet.
You won't get rich but all in all a decent company to work for and Singapore is a wonderful city to live in.

[4PW's]

Warden, what are you on?

He's misrepresenting the situation. Could be bad blood, I dunno.

60-80 hours a month positioning is not possible.

That'd be eight or more trips of no less than 10 hours flight time, or four pax flights to Amsterdam, in a month!

[Phil Squares]

Hi folks,
On the ineterview u will get lots of information which are not covering the future.
-AV. flying hours: 30h monthly.
-20 days away from Singapore.
-paxing 60-80 h
-no cocession travel,
-free ticket - u have to pay 15% income tax + airport tax,will cost U 800S$!!!
-company is changing profit sharing scheme (will be much less thhan at the beginnig)
more question pls


Warden 777, what interview did you go to? I've been at SIA Cargo and have never positioned like you say. My worst month was just at 30 hours and that was the month of Jan 06!
-concession travel is ZED based on ID75 Unlimited plus numerous agreements with other carriers
-I have averaged 14 days off/month
-Company wants to change profit charing scheme, however, it is part of the ALPAS CBA
-You pay tax on your ticket for me to LHR, it's less than S$100!, 15% income tax???? that's a new one.
-My average flight time/month is roughly 55 hours, that is including months with vacation.

All in all, one of the better jobs left out there. Absolutely no stress!


PS. I'd also recommend you check your spelling before posting. :E

[millerscourt]

Phil Word of advice Never Never pick up on other's spelling mistakes unless you are sure you are whiter than white!!

eg What is this profit charing scheme!!!??


Also [B]what so ever is one word[B]:{

ALPHAS??

TAX Budget 2005 as follows
First $160,000 14%

Next $160.000 17%

So for Salary of $320,000 YA 2007 Total Tax $42,700

[Phil Squares]

Phil Word of advice Never Never pick up on other's spelling mistakes unless you are sure you are whiter than white!!
eg What is this profit charing scheme!!!??
Also [B]what so ever is one word[B]:{
ALPHAS??
TAX Budget 2005 as follows
First $160,000 14%
Next $160.000 17%
So for Salary of $320,000 YA 2007 Total Tax $42,700

Point taken.

With respect to taxes, don't forget there are deductions for children, spouse certain items such as life insurance, physicals, union dues, supplemental insurance. So, the effective tax rate is somewhat lower.

[vector3]

Hi.
Anybody who know how much your salary is, during the t/r and line-training, at SIA cargo?

[Phil Squares]

Hi.
Anybody who know how much your salary is, during the t/r and line-training, at SIA cargo?


In G/S you receive your salary, housing (if on expat contract) and education (if on expat).

On the line you receive as above plus PPA and per diem.

No hidden costs or % withheld.

[fishbad]

Hi Guys
Reading your mesages I think scheduler dosn't like me very much>i've been here since Jan 2005 and never exceeded 50 hrs a month ,avarage is 30-40 it's true believe me.Positioning is not less than 20 hrs a month .I earned total 210 000 s$ incl bonus for last year.ID tickets?? sometimes you can buy cheaper in the internet as the normal booked seats .I'm quite disappointed but there is like coffin corner ...bond is 140000 s$
brgds

[4PW's]

What're you, and F/O?

No kidding.

[Round D. Globe]

Phil, et al

Is the window closed for SIAC Apps?
I noticed on the SIAC website that they've taken the DEC job off the careers page.

Anyone?

RDG

[Phil Squares]

Phil, et al

Is the window closed for SIAC Apps?
I noticed on the SIAC website that they've taken the DEC job off the careers page.

Anyone?

RDG


Supposedly, hiring is going full steam!

Hi Guys
Reading your mesages I think scheduler dosn't like me very much>i've been here since Jan 2005 and never exceeded 50 hrs a month ,avarage is 30-40 it's true believe me.Positioning is not less than 20 hrs a month .I earned total 210 000 s$ incl bonus for last year.ID tickets?? sometimes you can buy cheaper in the internet as the normal booked seats .I'm quite disappointed but there is like coffin corner ...bond is 140000 s$
brgds


I have to ask, are you a FO? I sure don't have that problem at all! Could you explain the S$140,000 bond, I was current and qualified when I arrived, so I have nothing, but that number isn't one I've heard before.

[Warden777]

Warden, what are you on?
He's misrepresenting the situation. Could be bad blood, I dunno.
60-80 hours a month positioning is not possible.
That'd be eight or more trips of no less than 10 hours flight time, or four pax flights to Amsterdam, in a month!

Ok U r lucky man, let me present: pax SIN AMS 12H, SIN LAX 23 H, SIN KWI 12H (2 DAYS), ICN SIN 8H, NRT SIN 8 H.No commments!

[Left Coaster]

So would you be able to decode your post? If we are to be able to debate, we have to have clear info. I'm maybe a bit foggy on it but I don't get what your times mean...is all that paxing or whatever it's called or did you operate some of those routes?
Many Thanks...

[Fogrunner]

pax SIN AMS 12H, SIN LAX 23 H, SIN KWI 12H (2 DAYS), ICN SIN 8H, NRT SIN 8 !
I think it is all positioning. 63hrs wow, thats a lot...

[CARGOJOCK]

THE SQ CARGO OPERATION IS JUST CRAZY.

WARDEN777 IS RIGHT YOU PAX MORE THAN YOU FLY. I AVERAGE 25-35 HOURS A MONTH.

I HAVE PAX- LAX-SIN/ AND OFTEN SIN-EUROPE(LHR/AMS THEN IMMEDIATELY JUMP ANOTHER CARRIER TO BRU.
PAX IS FIRST CLASS BUT THE HOURS SPENT PAX GETS TO YOU AND BUILDS FRUSTRATION.
NO PAYMENT WHILST PAX!!!!.

SQ PAX FLEET GUYS THEY GET PAID S$25 PHR.

THE ROSTERING IS A DISAPPOINTMENT AND I DO NOT SEE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL.

THE MAINLINE SQ PAX OPERATIONS CREW GET PRIORITY OVER THE CARGO CREWS. WE CARGO CREWS GET THE SCRAPS.
THE PAX B744 CREWS FLY AND AVERAGE 85 HOURS.

AS FOR TRAVEL PRIVILEDGES SQ MAKES MONEY ON STAFF TRAVEL. ONE IS BETTER OFF BUYING A TICKET DOWNTOWN IT IS CHEAPER AND CONFIRMED.

NOT RECOMMENDED BUT I HAVE TO RIDE THE WAVE AS I HAVE A S$56000 BOND.

SUCKER!!!!!!!!!!

[AiRBuS_380]

THE SQ CARGO OPERATION IS JUST CRAZY.

WARDEN777 IS RIGHT YOU PAX MORE THAN YOU FLY. I AVERAGE 25-35 HOURS A MONTH.

I HAVE PAX- LAX-SIN/ AND OFTEN SIN-EUROPE(LHR/AMS THEN IMMEDIATELY JUMP ANOTHER CARRIER TO BRU.
PAX IS FIRST CLASS BUT THE HOURS SPENT PAX GETS TO YOU AND BUILDS FRUSTRATION.
NO PAYMENT WHILST PAX!!!!.

SQ PAX FLEET GUYS THEY GET PAID S$25 PHR.

THE ROSTERING IS A DISAPPOINTMENT AND I DO NOT SEE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL.

THE MAINLINE SQ PAX OPERATIONS CREW GET PRIORITY OVER THE CARGO CREWS. WE CARGO CREWS GET THE SCRAPS.
THE PAX B744 CREWS FLY AND AVERAGE 85 HOURS.

AS FOR TRAVEL PRIVILEDGES SQ MAKES MONEY ON STAFF TRAVEL. ONE IS BETTER OFF BUYING A TICKET DOWNTOWN IT IS CHEAPER AND CONFIRMED.

NOT RECOMMENDED BUT I HAVE TO RIDE THE WAVE AS I HAVE A S$56000 BOND.

SUCKER!!!!!!!!!!

cool down bro.
we knw wats goin on in SQ
rem our passion is to fly... keep it going really hope things will change for the cargo operations.

for the pax operation we get **** too... its just a matter of perception
yes i get a average of 85hrs a month.

i am a fo for b744 and currenting with type conversion for A380, hope to see u convert to pax crew once your time comes.
relax bro..

great way to fly
singapore airlines

[CARGOJOCK]

hi AirBus380

passion/love is what got me twice into trouble.

the first with my marraige and second to fly the B744.

it is a great way to fly i do agree but i only ask the rosterering to sort itself out. with pax you are requiring more crew than actually needed. a penny wise pound foolish.

SIA is a profitable outfit hats off to that so it does do things right. but let me say that things will change in the next few years and that will be the true mother of all test.

the true profit centres in SIA is the engineering and cargo and last but not least ground handling.

yes hard but true the pax operation just about makes it.
cargo on the otherhand is proving it's weight in gold.

enjoy the A380

Happy Landings!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hachiouji-shi]

cargojock

yeah i agree with you absolutely, passion/love - too much of it ( sometimes we never realise it has gone too far ), screws us up big time. Big time. things will just get better as the days go on, thats for sure too.

[airbusboeingdriver]

cool down bro.
we knw wats goin on in SQ
rem our passion is to fly... keep it going really hope things will change for the cargo operations.

for the pax operation we get **** too... its just a matter of perception
yes i get a average of 85hrs a month.

i am a fo for b744 and currenting with type conversion for A380, hope to see u convert to pax crew once your time comes.
relax bro..

great way to fly
singapore airlines


hey 380! we meet again.

you heard any news about possible merge of pax and cargo pilots flying pax and cargo fleet in common?

bro, we are relaxing!

[taufanganas]

hi 380. just curious about your posting. are you on the 744 now and doing a380 type conversion? didn't know that crew had been selected and training commenced for the 380. also wrt averaging 85hrs-how many months have you been counting? i thought fleet tried to keep hours averaged to about 70?cheers

[faheel]

he is pulling his pud mate!!

There is no A380 conv going on at the moment, as for 85hrs a month on the 744 cargo that is rubbish too.

UNLESS you are a mainline f/0 then you can get the hours up, but as a dedicated 744 cargo pilot..no way.

As for merging mainline and cargo? forget it, aint going to happen.

[CARGOJOCK]

faheel,

you are right we all do agree that the MAINLINE BOYS get the plum flights.

we second class cargo lads get the scraps. one cargo jocky says he just carries extra fuel 5T although i disagree with his attitude, the wrong perseption is spreading and just imagine if everybody starts doing this. the fuel bill will be over the moon.

i just cannot see why the flight are not shared or let the cargo boys the priority on cargo flights and the mainline boys on their flights.

it is said that the old bold types on the 744 fleet that cannot cope with conversions to newer aircraft like the 777 and upgraded avionics are the real rascals behind these unprofessional rostering methods.

well they do not want cargo pilots joining in as they think the cargo lads fly inferior, however the mainline boys are the guys that avoid ANC/CPH/NKG during the winter periods.

most of the unstable landings are done by mainline crews that fly on cargo aircraft as they get caught out due to the increased landing weight. however the statistics go as cargo so the dedicated cargo pilots get the mud.

ask all the FO they enjoy flying with cargo pilots as they show more experience and the cockpit enviorment is calmer.

but we will just have to keep at it as the bond keeps ringing in my mind.

take care you all that want to join SQ CARGO remember you pax more than you fly.

[Round D. Globe]

Cargojock,

Is there any kind of compensation with all this Deadheading?
i.e. hourly rate, flat daily rate, anything? Also, how much longer do you
have on your bond? What will be your next Airline choice? You seem pretty unhappy.

RDG

[Warden777]

Cargojock,
Is there any kind of compensation with all this Deadheading?
i.e. hourly rate, flat daily rate, anything? Also, how much longer do you
have on your bond? What will be your next Airline choice? You seem pretty unhappy.
RDG
NO!!!!!!!
but u will get totaly unstable roster ,

[CARGOJOCK]

HI ROUND D GLOBE

NO MATE NOT REALLY UNHAPPY JUST PISSED OFF AT HOW THEY TREAT PEOPLE.

I MAINTAIN MY PROFESSIONALISM SAVE FUEL FLY SAFE LIKE MOST OF US AND THEN THEY TREAT US AS SECOND CLASS LADS.AS MENTIONED EARLIER A BLOKE TAKES 5T EACH TIME HE SAYS WHY SHOULD HE PUT HIS ASS ON THE LINE IF THEY DO NOT CARE, I SOMETIMES TEND TO AGREE.

THE MAINLINE BOYS ALWAYS UPLIFT EXTRA FUEL. THE OLD TIMERS JUST CANNOT TAKE THE HEAT I GUESS THEY WILL DIE WITH THE 747. KNOWING SQ NOW WELL I AM SURE THEY WILL JUST MAINTAIN A FEW FOR THE SENIOR LOT. THESE GUYS CAN NEVER CHANGE OVER TO 777 OR A345 THE A380 FOR THEM WILL BE JUST NOT POSSIBLE.

LIFE WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE FAIR BUT HEY I AM IN IT HAD AN OPEN MIND WHEN I JOINED BUT THEY JUST DONT CARE.

I AM DEBT FREE BUT I JUST CANNOT KISS MY BOND AWAY. ABOUT ANOTHER AIRLINE I GUESS WILL HAVE TO KEEP LOOKING AT THE RIGHT TIME RATHER REMAIN IN THE EAST.

I HAVE OVER 24 MONTHS TO GO.

SHALL BITE MY LIPS AND HOLD ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IF THE ROSTERING CAN BE REVAMPED, BUT THIS IS JUST NOT POSSIBLE WITH THE MAINLINE LADS.

[AiRBuS_380]

hi
im not flying cargo B744F. i am fly the pax b744 aircraft and i hit 85hrs last mth.
and i was select for A380...pls read the postings carefully before zapping around.

cheers

[billkill]

IMO, cargo or mainline, it's been known in the industry that SIA ain't a very good employer. But also, how much you like it depends on yourself. I remember when I was in training and started flying, I encountered many problems. Girlfriend left me, argued with superiors, and etc. In summary, life sucked when I was serving the bond. But things worked itself out. Am happily married with an understanding family, work's smooth sailing...for the moment.., and etc. I feel every company has it flaws, especially management wise...and sometimes you just got to sit in there and hang tight till better opportunities come around.

for pax, an average is about 75hours...ranges from 68-80 actually. sometimes it can be more no doubt or less. I have friends in Cargo and some love it some don't. Those that do, do complain about positioning. But they make the best out of positioning flights instead of sitting there wasting time away. Thos that hate positioning and all mainly have families to think about and I guess would rather spend time with family than with those "pretty" stewardesses...haha it's all about personal lifestyle and preference I guess.

[Round D. Globe]

Cargojock,BillKill

Thanks for the replies, This helps with the decision making process
for me if SQ happens to call. As I would have to enter a bond as well
and that's a long time to be miserable.

BillKill et al , How much time do you get in Singapore with your family?
It seems like most guys on this thread are getting about two weeks
at home of course not all together,on average. Is that close?


RDG

[jollyt]

AirBus 380
No one is "zapping around" here. You have exposed yourself as a fraud. I know for a FACT that A380 crew selection hasn't even taken place and courses will only start after July. Who you trying to kid here!

[Fly3]

Jollyt is correct. There has been no selection done for the A380 yet. The likely date for that will be June/July this year depending on when the aircraft are going to arrive in Singapore. It is also likely that the first batch will be ex-A340 people who it is believed will be able to convert more easily to the type.

[Mr Gammon Flaps]

Hi Chaps: Could anyone provide the amount that SIA require to be put down as a bank guarantee for First Officers on contract terms? Do you actually have to pitch up with the cash? Do they pay interest?

I tried the search function but couldn't tie down the answer.

cheers

[billkill]

RDG,

For pax, it's around 2 weeks here and there. For cargo, I am not too sure.
If you are an instructor, it's a different story.
But on the whole, it's about 2 weeks.
It's kind of enough for me though. I am sort of a loner and prefer more alone time.

About A380 crews, I've heard rumours that the crews have already been chosen and briefed. I myself have not been chosen or such so I don't think I have the right to comment. But none of the people I know have been called up yet. Rumour or not, someone please enlighten me as I would also like to know.

[taufanganas]

further to the a380 selection training-the terms/conditions have not been finalised yet with the association. there have been those who 'volunteered' to go across but i do not think that the majority would not be too pleased with them. last i heard was that 744 was too tight to release bodies, so the initial courses (whenever they are) will be predominantly 777/345 chaps.

now airbus person: am i right in saying that last month you flew 85h and that for your average for the last month is 85h? or is the time frame longer (2months?2years?).or perhaps the word average has changed in meaning somewhat. i'm 'zappingly' keen to know! since i've had only 3 months past 85 hrs in the past 96+ months! cheers

[CARGOJOCK]

News:

BA has eextended the retirement age to 60.

Well thats going to affect SQ CARGO as they have a few ex BA 744 jocks.

If they keep at this difference towards the CARGO lads they will have a lot of trouble finding jockeys.

I just hear yesterday that all this mourning has some concern with the management and an attempt to bridge this difference may take place starting with the roster.
MAYBE THE MANAGEMENT IS LOOKING AT THIS CHAT LINE?

irrespective of any preference of lifestyles if they do away with this level of paxing and up the flying hours of the cargo crews i think most will be happy. stable and clean country where the system works.

it will be an uphill task to rid or get the old SQ jockeys to fall in line.

the bond for B744 is S$56,000 payable with a bank in singapore. bank commission is 0.5% - 1.5% on top valid for 5year and 8 months.

take care lads

[Warden777]

Cargojock,BillKill

Thanks for the replies, This helps with the decision making process
for me if SQ happens to call. As I would have to enter a bond as well
and that's a long time to be miserable.

BillKill et al , How much time do you get in Singapore with your family?
It seems like most guys on this thread are getting about two weeks
at home of course not all together,on average. Is that close?


RDG

Hi RDG
U've to put in bank 56 000, but bank guarantee is 120 000, pls correct me if i'm wrong.
U need to know that SIA pilots, even if they are flying cargo, they're doing less paxing patterns than cargo crews.
More less; flying in cargo is like - 9 to 14 days out of sin,and after that 4 to 6days home. but roster is unstable and covers only next pattern and days off.

[BANANASBANANAS]

I have not been released to line more than a few months but so far the job is everything SIA Cargo advertised itself as.

Bond: You have to put up 56K which will actually require a deposit of about 60k as the charges are all front end loaded by the banks. Total bond is 142k.

So far I have found the roster to be fine but that is all down to personal preference I guess. I come back from a 12 day COP, have 6 days OFF then start 14 days holiday. Commuting could be a problem unless you have ID90 entitlement from your previous company. Again, my personal circumstances mean that isn't an issue for us.

Sure, staff travel and leave entitlement could be better but this is a new airline. Lets win one battle at a time.:ok:

[readufive]

Bananasbananas....hi....I think you have made me a bit nervous 142k??...gulp! I have been invited for an interview in late april for SIA cargo and I am pretty excited about it.....but, what do you actually mean by "142k"??
I was under the impression the bond was "only" 56k(SGD)......


Please explain a bit further........many thanks. How it works....etc....

[Round D. Globe]

Bananasx2

Good to see you're back up on the board. I am just as confused as Readufive. please, a little clarification.

By the way, Here's a thought.. let say you have an A345 type but SIA starts you in the 74F, Are you still required
to be bonded?

Thanks
RDG

[millerscourt]

What you are already type rated on say A345 makes no difference if you join on the B744. Bond and Bank Guarantee applies. To avoid any confusion the Bank Guarantee forms part of the total Bond. This guarantee has either to be in cash when you arrive or as a Bank Guarantee by a branch in Singapore. The Bond is the Grand Total you are signed up to repaying SQ should you leave earlier than the 5 years of being on the line. It is Pro- Rata if you leave earlier. After 5 years on the line the Bank Guarantee is cancelled and you get your money back.

[readufive]

millerscourt....ok....but how much is it? 142k sgd...sounds pretty steep!

Please elaborate a bit more(for us dummies):hmm: :hmm:

[Fogrunner]

You put S$56000 into a Singapore bank that is about $35000 (US). The bond is total of $142k if you should leave early, which includes the 56000 as a guarantee. Singapore is very adept at pursing people who violate the terms of their contract as they should be.
Go to the interview and ask them about the bond/guarantee.
S$142k = $86000 USD

It is simpler to bring the money with you and go to the DBS Bank at Parkway who are familiar with the SQ "Bondage" scheme and deposit in a deposit account paying peanuts interest. DBS will charge you around SGD 1600 for this privilege!
You do not have to bring the money if for example you can get a Bank to guarantee the payment to SQ ( say against the value of your house) but the big catch is that this Bank must have a branch in Singapore. You have 20 days on arrival at SQ to come up with this as otherwise you are off the ground course!!!
There is a good search function on this site where this info has been covered in the past.

[readufive]

Fogrunner....many thanks for the input. So...as I understand it...you bring
56k sgd yourself..and thats it. IF you violate the contract...you pay an amount of 142k sgd......ok....I think its sinking in now....:bored: :bored: :bored:

[Fogrunner]

Fogrunner....many thanks for the input. So...as I understand it...you bring
56k sgd yourself..and thats it. IF you violate the contract...you pay an amount of 142k sgd......ok....I think its sinking in now....:bored: :bored: :bored:
I don't work at Singapore, just info I have managed to glean from this website.
To avoid any confusion the Bank Guarantee forms part of the total Bond. This guarantee has either to be in cash when you arrive or as a Bank Guarantee by a branch in Singapore. The Bond is the Grand Total you are signed up to repaying SQ should you leave earlier than the 5 years of being on the line. It is Pro- Rata if you leave earlier. After 5 years on the line the Bank Guarantee is cancelled and you get your money back.
If you do a detailed search there is a guy called Gladiator. He skipped out on his bond. Singapore chased him down to the US ( I think he is at Alaska now) and sued him in US court. He gives a detailed account of his dealings with SIA from his point of view.
People can debate all they want about the bond/guarantee. This is the way SIA does it. To me, if you sign an agreement it is your word. I guess I am an old fashioned guy. You buy a house you sign the paperwork. If you don't pay the bank note they take the house. What's the difference. You complete the contract you get the money back.

[readufive]

Fogrunner....I couldn´t agree with you more. Its not like you don´t know, whats in the contract.....

Well...I guess I will have to ask them about the details at the interview...:ok:

[Round D. Globe]

Readufive

Please post whatever you can about the interview. I know yours is sometime next month and they have yet to contact me, but I (and I'm sure others) would like to know. Meanwhile I'm checking the sofa cushions and the kids piggy banks to scrap up the 56k. YIKES!

RDG

[fishbad]

Check your contract carefully.There is not only 56ks$.Total is 140ks$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is a **** !!!!!!!I 've found out about this when I got the contract to sign up .It was too late to get back.There is a really trap .

[BANANASBANANAS]

Were you not sent a sample contract with all the interview paperwork?

:ok:

[ffodekcuf]

Take a pile of questions that are relevant to you and your situation, they are very good at not telling all you all there is you need to know in order to make an informed decision, before you sign your life away!!!

There is however no stress in the interview, and the whole process is very friendly and relaxed, just glean all the gen you can!

[ffodekcuf]

To BananasBananas,

No you are only sent an expurgated version of the contract before you arrive to sign on etc, and it is only then that you realise just how much you are letting yourself in for, and for many people it is too late and you are trapped!:oh:

[BANANASBANANAS]

I was sent full details of the bonding arrangement prior to interview. I obviously cant speak for other people but I was also asked at interview how soon I could join and I replied that it would be 3 months after I resigned from my current job and I wasn't going to resign until I had received a formal offer of employment from SIA Cargo, complete with full bonding arrangements.

I received the formal offer (with all the bonding details confirmed) within 1 week of interview. Only then did I resign from my then current employer.

It does seem strange that other people were treated differently.:ok:

[airwaya457]

Could someone please help with the following?
Do you get days off in a row?
Can you request long trips so as to get 4 or 5 days off in a row?
Is there any kind of bidding system?
Is it possible to commute to some where 6 hours away?

[serangga]

Hey guys, the cash bond is a bit steep. But then again, it is in a form of a bank fixed deposit ( or time deposit as some of you may call it ) in a Singapore bank, but signed to the company as a trust. The time deposit will still pay you interest. ( Yes SIA does not keep all the cash! ). The rest of it is in a form of a "pledge" to re-imburse the company for the training and the rating that you get.
The conditions for the confiscation of the cash bond and subsequent payback of the rest is ( the payback amount reduces each year )dependant on the conditions of you leaving the company eg: Dismissal for disciplinary reasons, Falsification of past flying experience (parker pen hours) or gross incompetance. Believe me, all these have happened before on some of the DEC who have applied to SIA.
If you complete the 3 year period, you get all your initial cash bond plus interest and you are scott free, but the contract they offer you is for an initial 5 years so you have to think if you want to hang around in this "police state" for another 2 years.
Off days are not a problem, with the cargo crew operating patterns being 8 days average and according to the current union agreement, should get you 4 days off. Comuting ANYWHERE is another matter. The staff travel pricing absolutely sucks and will burn a hole in your pocket really fast because of the taxes and surcharges that you have to pay.
In short, if you are willing to eat humble pie and fly with an outfit that does NOT fly clapped out aeroplanes with dodgy maintainence, then SIA Cargo is pretty decent. There are a lot worse places to be. (Being able to stomach the Singapore system is all together another matter!)
But be warned, this company has a LOT of high priced lawyers on retainer. You can try to fight them, but then the costs (in REAL money to you!) will be HIGH.

You got to remember, at the end of the day, these guys run a business. They certainly DO want to recover some of the training investment in you, and the way do this if by asking you for your services for which you are paid. ( Isn't this the same everywhere else? )

Happy flying.

[readufive]

2xbananas......how long before your interview did you receive your contract. I have not received anything yet.:bored: The interview is in late april.
Overall.....I guess your opinion of SIA cargo is positive....right? There are ofcourse pro´s and con´s with all jobs. Are you on local contract or expat-contract? Are there major differnces? It would be cool if you could write a bit more about your experiences.:cool:

Regarding the bond.....I must admit I am still a bit confused....."fishbad"
talks about traps and stuff:ugh: 56k:ooh: , 140k:8 ......please elaborate.:ooh: I have no problems with (decent) bonds......it is after all YOUrself, who eventually signs, i´n´it. All companys have them in one form or another......

[faheel]

the bond for non type rated people is not 3 years it is 5years and 5 months and unless you are planning to do a runner at some stage then it really is not an issue.
You do not have to put up any money but you do need a bank guarantee for 40 odd thousand sin dollars which can (as is my case) be written against an asset I have back home.
What you will need is to pay the bank who writes it some dough usually abt $1500 to $2000
One last thing, the bank must have an office in Singapore if you go down that road.

[Fogrunner]

2xbananas......how long before your interview did you receive your contract. I have not received anything yet.:bored: The interview is in late april.
Overall.....I guess your opinion of SIA cargo is positive....right? There are ofcourse pro´s and con´s with all jobs. Are you on local contract or expat-contract? Are there major differnces? It would be cool if you could write a bit more about your experiences.:cool:
Regarding the bond.....I must admit I am still a bit confused....."fishbad"
talks about traps and stuff:ugh: 56k:ooh: , 140k:8 ......please elaborate.:ooh: I have no problems with (decent) bonds......it is after all YOUrself, who eventually signs, i´n´it. All companys have them in one form or another......

I wouldn't put too much stock in what "fishbad" has to say. His statements seem confused and convoluted. He also ignores PMs.

I would look to people such as millerscourt, phil squares, BANANASBANANAS, 4pw to mention only a few.
They have a more balanced and understandable approach.

[BANANASBANANAS]

2xbananas......how long before your interview did you receive your contract. I have not received anything yet.:bored: The interview is in late april.
Overall.....I guess your opinion of SIA cargo is positive....right? There are ofcourse pro´s and con´s with all jobs. Are you on local contract or expat-contract? Are there major differnces? It would be cool if you could write a bit more about your experiences.:cool:

Regarding the bond.....I must admit I am still a bit confused....."fishbad"
talks about traps and stuff:ugh: 56k:ooh: , 140k:8 ......please elaborate.:ooh: I have no problems with (decent) bonds......it is after all YOUrself, who eventually signs, i´n´it. All companys have them in one form or another......

I will try to answer the questions you ask but please remember that I am only speaking of my own experiences and giving my own opinions.

I received a copy of a "typical contract" about a week before the interview. The interview was arranged at fairly short notice and the time scale was approx as follows:

Early Mar 2005, Emailed my app form to SIA Cargo.
2 days later, return email inviting me for interview in about 2 weeks time. I replied immediately, accepting the interview. Immediate reply from SIA saying that interview was confirmed and letter confirming interview, sample contract and bond details would be posted that day. SIA pay for hotac but you pay for the airfare.

1 week later, letter containing all above info was received.
Another week later I attended interview and was told at the end of the sim that I had been successful subject to medical (done the next day) and satisfactory references. This was confirmed by email in a couple of days and I was advised that a hard copy containing "everything" was in the post.

1 week - 10 days later I received the hard copy (signed) formal offer of employment, contract, bonding details etc, conditional only on receiving satisfactory references from my current employer which I arranged and faxed through the same day. That was also the day I resigned.

3 months later I started work with SIA Cargo.

I have just completed my log book for March 2006 and I flew almost 58 hours and my only positioning sector was about 4 hours in first class from LAX to ORD. I will be back in SIN tomorrow and have 6 days OFF before starting 14 days holiday.

I am on an expat contract which provides for housing allowance and childrens education (up to age 18) if your children go to a Singapore school. Nil allowance for schools outside Singapore.

Bonding? OK I will try to explain it again using very small words.

The bond is Sing$142k and it decreases linearly over 5 years but the 5 years begins only AFTER you finish your conversion (and maybe probation - I will have to check).

Of that 142K you have to front up 56k when you join SIA Cargo. That 56K is held as a bank guarantee for the 5 years. If after 5 years you havent scarpered you get your 56k back + any interest accrued. Be aware that the banks charge for providing this service and the 5 years of charges are all paid at the beginning (in case you scarper - banks aint daft) so the 56k will probably cost you about 60k in all.

If you wish to commute and dont have any ID90 deals that you can hang onto from your previous employer it can be expensive as we only get ID75 and in most cases you can do better in a travel agents - and get a firm seat. We also only get 32 days annual leave but rostering appear to be very understanding and helpful and I have 22 days holiday in April for only 14 days of annual leave entitlement.

The housing allowance is adequate but you might have to top it up just a bit. I am told that the education allowance knocks a big hole in the school bills but doesn't cover them completely - depending on school etc.

The aeroplanes are great. The routes are great (provided you like long haul and up to 16 days away followed by 6-7 days Off) and the guys I have flown with have all been excellent. Fleet Office appears to be very user friendly as well.

Its not perfect, but it is everything it advertised itself to be and I have had no nasty surprises at all. Hope that helps.:ok:

[remlap]

Bananas,

Phil Squares has been kind enough to give me some information, which is pretty much in line with what you have said.

My question is this: I don't have a problem with relocating and living in SIA. However, I prefer to fly turns, three days, shorter type of flying. Looking at some of the 12 day and 9 day trips, I am sure I wouldn't know what time zone I was in. Is there any possibility of shorter duration trips? Also, could you give me a brief description of the bidding software set up?

Thanks,

Remlap

[millerscourt]

remlap I will leave it to Bananas to tell you all about the bidding software setup!!

[Bokomoko]

Hi Bananas, just a curiosity...
Based on COP how many trips have you been flying as PIC on augmented crew?
Any criteria (seniority, etc.) to be designated captain doing F/O duties?
Does SIA Cargo use on a 3-pilot crew a captain and 2 "real" F/O?
In short, how does it work?
Thanks

[CARGOJOCK]

GUYS GALS HEAR ME HEAR ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SQ CARGO IS NOT A VERY GOOD PLACE AT LEAST NOT RECOMMENDED, HOWEVER INDIVIDUAL PREFERENCES SHALL PREVAIL.

I AM IN THE SYSTEM SINCE THE START AND CANNOT MOVE DUE TO THE BOND.
ROUTES ARE GREAT BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS WAY TOO LOW.

MONTHLY AVERAGE FLYING 25-40 HOURS HIGHLY VARIABLE.THE MAINLINE BOYS GET THE PREMIUM FLIGHTS.
***FLYING ALLOWANCE(PRODUCTIVITY PFH IS S$55) THIS IS VERY SHORT AND HARD TO COME BY.

CARGO CREWS PAX A HELL OF A LOT AVERAGE 35-50 HOURS A MONTH(EG JFK-SIN/SIN-LAX/HKG-ANC/SIN-LHR).
I WISH THEY GAVE US FREQUENT FLYER MILES.

NO DISCOUNTED TRAVEL ONLY ID75.
THE TRAVEL AGENT IN TOWN IS CHEAPER AND YOUR SEAT IS CONFIRMED.

YOU ONLY GET ONE SET OF TICKETS FOR THE FAMILY ONCE A YEAR THATS IT.

THE BOND IS FOR S$142000 OF WHICH S$56000 HAS TO BE IN A BANK GUARANTEE. THE BANK CHARGES A COMMISSION OF 1-1.5% DEPENDING ON THE BANK.
BANK OF INDIA IS THE LOWEST COMMISION IS 0.5%.

HOUSING ALLOWANCE IS S$3000 PER MONTH YOU MAY GET A 3 BEDROOM 1700SQ FT,ON THE EAST COAST WHICH IS THE DESIRED LOCATION FOR MOST EXPATS FOR A FEW MORE HUNDRED DOLLARS EXTRA SAY S$ 3100-3800 HENCE YOU WILL HAVE TO POCKET WHAT IS MORE THAN S$3000.

SCHOOLING IS GREAT MOST OF THE EXPATS SEND THEIR KIDS TO UNITED WORLD COLLEGE (UWCSEA), FEES FOR A TERM(4 MONTHS) IS A S$6500-7800 HOWEVER YOU WILL BE PAID AT S$1400 PER MONTH PER CHILD MAX 2 KIDS.
HERETO YOU WILL HAVE TO POCKET S$1100-2100 ADDITIONAL PER KID DEPENDING ON THE CHILDS AGE.

LIVING COST EG:UTILITIES (ELECTRICITY/WATER/GAS/CABLE TV/FIXED TELEPHONE) WORKS OUR TO ABOUT S$1000PER MONTH. MOBILE COST NOT INCLUDED.

BOTTOM LINE:
IF THE CARGO CREWS ARE GIVEN EXTRA FLYING WITH A REDUCTION IN PAXING HOURS THEN YOU WILL HAVE ALLOWANCES AROUND S$4500-7000.
THEN THIS WOULD BE GREAT BUT THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN AND ALL OF US EXPECTED THIS WHEN WE JOINED.

ONCE YOU PUT YOUR SIGNATURE TO THE DOTTED LINE I DO NOT RECOMMEND YOU DEFAULT.

CARGO 744 CREWS ARE TREATED AS THIRD CLASS STOCK.
FIRST CLASS ARE THE MAINLINE B744
SECOND CLASS ARE THE A345/B777

TAXATION WILL BE COVERED IN THE ISSUE.

[readufive]

2xbananas and cargojock......wow....big differences in opinion I guess.:eek:
Very informative posts....the "small words" really helped.;) I get picture....

Need to do some thinkin´lincoln!:hmm: :hmm:

Cargojock....is it really that bad? You seem to be in dire straights....:ouch: .

:ok: :ok:

[BANANASBANANAS]

I agree with some of what cargo jock says but if I may, I would like to (quietly) disagree with the following:

1. Flying / Positioning hours. I have averaged over 50 flying hours per month since joining and less than 7 positioning hours per month.

2. Housing allowance. A bit of lateral thinking is required here. There are several ways of looking at it. You can commute and get a 2 bed unit for 1600$ per month and use the balance of the 3000 towards tickets. Or, you can bring your family over, rent out your house in your domicile and pay a small amount of your own money to rent somewhere nice. Or, you can purchase a condo and use the 3000 to pay the mortgage.

3. Utility bills. I had a pile waiting for me when I opened the door of OUR condo unit.

a. Combined Electricity, Gas, Water, + Taxes for March - $212.37
b. Cable TV (with nearly all the options) - $124.95
c. Mobile phone bill (self + wife) $143.78
d. Landline Phone bill - $43.00

Monthly bills including mobiles but excluding food + about $550.00

Rostering:

I have not gone to rostering with boxes of chocolates, nor have I asked for any specific trips. I am very happy with my rosters - but I like long haul of 12-16 days as it gives me max time off on return and it is more lucrative. Thats personal preference.


Augmented/Double/3 Pilot crew. If 2 Captains are rostered to fly, one will be nominated by the company as command crew. It seems to depend on who is doing the full COP and who is just "guesting" for that particular sector.

You can fly with 2 F/Os or another Captain and an F/O. It depends on the FTL requirements. See http://www.caas.gov.sg/caas/level3_external_site.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302023 703&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181070&CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673220696&bmUID=1143992899359 AOCRs appendix C1 if you want a nice long read.

As far as roster requests go, there is a mechanism thru which you can make requests but I have never done it so cant comment on the success rate.

Will be on leave and deep and silent for the next 3 weeks guys. Play nicely.:ok:

[Left Coaster]

Dbl Bananas has put it all there, with only few diffs for us it all adds up. Up to you how much to spend, all in all there seems to be two schools...there are those who are put off by changes, and those who flow with them and realise it's part of the business...what to do about it is another question. For me? Whatever "floats my boat" these days seems to work, I've been there done that when it comes to trying to figure out how a company works. Not enough of the big picture to see what happens and I only get a sore head when I try to figure out the way things are done. Just my two bits and I swear that by keeping out of the way at work, my home life is WAY better...
Be cool and enjoy...

[remlap]

Bananas X 2 is running deep and silent. While he is gone, could someone step up and explain the bidding/rostering system and possibilities. I am interested in length of trips, average days away from domicile, and bidding flexibility.

Thanks,

Remlap

I am interested in Captain's schedules.

[CARGOJOCK]

hi remlap

read my text.i have been in the system longer. the 744 fleet has all the senior SIA mainline lads. so theyhave to be served first. after they are dished out the premium flights we get the patterns were we log more frquent flyer miles than flying hours which in TURN IS LOSS OF THE PRODUCTIVITY AT S$55 PFH.

WE CARGO LADS GET ZILCH FOR PAXING THATS WHY THEY SEND US AROUND THE WORLD FOR FREE.
DO NOT BE MISLED BY BANANASBANAS he either provides gifts to the rostering ladies thats right ladies do our rosters. please see his earlier email he mentions that he does not provide choclates how come he thought of that if he has never done so....human error wake you all!!!!

the cargo fleet is great with super routes but as i have mentioned during the life of this thread the patterns we get is absolutely crazy.the priority of productive flights are given to the SIA mainline boys we cargo lads get the scraps,and the beauty is everybody blames the rostering program. a general cargo roster would have you doing example:

SIN-LHR on SQ then hop a ride on BA to BRU, stay two days and
you operate BRU-KWI.
next day PAX KWI-DXB on kuwait airways.
next day PAX DXB-SIN on SIA

YOU FLY AN AVERAGE OF 25-40 hrs a month

AND YOU PAX AVERAGE 35-50 hrs a month

BANANAS IS OUT OF THE ORDINARY I GUESS SOME GUYS ARE BLUE EYED BOYS OF ROSTERING.WONDER HOW???????????????

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Fogrunner]

Bananas X 2 is running deep and silent. While he is gone, could someone step up and explain the bidding/rostering system and possibilities. I am interested in length of trips, average days away from domicile, and bidding flexibility.
Thanks,
Remlap
I am interested in Captain's schedules.
Phil Squares should be able to help you out with an overview of Captains' rostering. I have found him very helpful and accommodating.:)

[BANANASBANANAS]

Cargo Jock

Your attitude explains a lot.

Perhaps you should look at your own behaviour and ask why you appear to be so bitter before you anonymously and falsely criticise others who are content with their lot

If you would like to make a specific allegation I will be delighted to identify myself by PM (assuming you have the intestinal fortitude to do the same) and we can then book ourselves a joint interview with the fleet office where you will have the opportunity to justify or apologise for your slander.

Right! Suitcase packed and the holiday has just started.:ok:

[ffodekcuf]

To those with further questions re SQ Cargo, here are some home truths about the whole deal, I do not know where Bananas is coming from or who his friends are in rostering, but he seems to be the exception rather than the rule when it comes to not only hours flown, but also hours done more often than not in the back of an SQ777/744, to position for or after a COP.

1) The BOND!

For F/O's it is S$51000, which forms the bank gaurantee part of the deal, whilst the total bond including this amount is S$129000 for five years after your date of confirmation, the pro rata reduction begins only after TWO YEARS from this date.:{ However be aware that there are charges to lodge this money with a local bank, and you get a grand total of 0.7% interest, which is less over the five years than the cost of the gaurantee in the first place. Also the money has devalued some what, and in little over a year, I have lost 14% of the value from the currency that I converted to pay the thing. You may lodge the gaurantee in Foreign Currency, but at a premium of 20% over the base amount, but you get the full amount you put in back.:eek: Generally the gaurantee is a lose lose situation!

2) The FLYING!

Below are my hours since Janurary 2005 :

I did 567hrs for 2005, averaging 47:15, and so far this year I have averaged 41:06, not great in terms of earning potential. The only leave I had in this period was in April. The August figures are true, 11:06, that is all the flying I did, the rest was 67 hours of positioning!! I am lead to believe that our productivity will increase but as yet have seen no evidence of it. PF and PNF sectors are pretty evenly spread, although Feb and Mar 06 have not been good months, I only did one PF sector in each, this however is unusual. (I am sorry, I tried to insert a spreadsheat with more valid information, but it will not come out as one, only a long line of figures).

Positioning in the cargo fleet is a fact of life, so be prepared for it and make the most of it, get yourself into a "zone" for each trip, and enjoy the great inflight entertainment and service, SQ's economy class is as good as a lot of other airlines business classes, so be positive about it and don't let it get you down. They try at all costs to put you in the front but if they are full then in the back you go. When you think of the annual bonus you get from the airline, it makes it a bit more bearable.

3) The TRAVEL BENEFITS!

Basically NONE!:sad: Cargo pilots get only one set of "homebase" tickets a year, i.e. only to your home town or nearest on the SQ network, we cannot take our families once a year to any other destination, so do not think of showing your kids some of the world whilst you are here! We are also allowed ID75 tickets but these are useless, as you can get much cheaper and CONFIRMED tickets on the net from other airlines and even SQ itself. So make sure you indicate when you sign up, where you want your homebase to be as once you are signed on it CANNOT be changed. As a matter of interest mainline guys get an annual free anywhere they want on the network, 4 ID90's, and unlimited ID85's per annum. Also be advised SQ have NO interline agreements of use to us, inlcuding with fellow members of the Star Alliance.

4) The ROSTERING!

So far the rosters this year have been very stable and uninterrupted, which is great, however expect disruptions over Xmas and Chinese New Year as flight schedules are often changed or cancelled. We do not have a formal bidding system per se, but rostering will accept requests, for a particular flight or COP, three months before you want it and they are usually very good at accomadating ones requests, as long as they are fairly reasonable ones. However be aware that the flights we get are the ones that remain after the mainline guys have had their crack at the decent ones.

5) The LIVING!

Rents in Singapore are generally reasonable, and there is a great range of accomadation availabe to suit all requirements. Food and booze are quiet expensive, but not excessive. Schooling is only paid for children resident in Singpaore, unlike the mainline guys whose kids fees are paid for wherever they are in the world. Utility costs etc have been discussd by other guys in this thread. Cell phones and charges are quiet expensive in world terms. Mainline guys get paid for transport to and from the airport,between certain hours, we do not, except for trips to the sim! So depending on where you live on the island, this can be quiet an expense in itself, living on the east coast puts you closer to the airport. On SQ ID75 tickets Capts can upgrade to business class but F/O's cannot!:yuk: When all is said and done there are far worse places to be in the East than Singapore, speak to guys from Asiana and Vietnam airlines.

5) The TRAINING!

Like all airlines the sim training all depends on who you get for the course, I had a fantastic old guy who was a real gentleman, and taught us a great deal. Likewise the line training was generally great and relaxed for the most part, however for both be well prepared and know your stuff, it will make your life much easier, as with most things in life! Some guys like me have had a really good training experience, whilst others have had a less than pleasant time, it is just the luck of the draw, but from my experience most of the instructors and trainers are good guys and on your side.

The above in a nutshell is my experience so far, in 15 months with SIA Cargo, if you are aware of the things above and are prepared to put up with them then this is a good job overall. The aircraft are all new and well maintained, and there are some really good destinations as well. Be carefull when weighing up the pro's and con's, and once you have made your decision then live with it!

Good Luck!

[Warden777]

Cargo Jock
Your attitude explains a lot.
Perhaps you should look at your own behaviour and ask why you appear to be so bitter before you anonymously and falsely criticise others who are content with their lot
If you would like to make a specific allegation I will be delighted to identify myself by PM (assuming you have the intestinal fortitude to do the same) and we can then book ourselves a joint interview with the fleet office where you will have the opportunity to justify or apologise for your slander.
Right! Suitcase packed and the holiday has just started.:ok:

Hi
I'd like to say that bananas X2 is a very lucky, lucky man!!!!!!!!!!!!
My opinion is like Cargo Jock. Paxing 40 - 60 h, ops 20-40 h, unstable roster,

[BANANASBANANAS]

OK, Final post before the PC gets shut down for a couple of weeks. Maybe I am lucky. maybe you are not. We can each only call it as we see it.

However, if I was one of the "unlucky" ones I would take my grievance to the fleet office and politely put forward my point of view. If I still did not get satisfaction I would take my case a step higher.

What I would not do is accuse my colleagues of corruption just because they happened to like their roster. It is an insult to the individual for accusing him of such behaviour and an insult to rostering for implying that they are open to such bribery.

If you dont like it, either change it or leave.

If you dont like it and you can't change it or leave, then make the best of it.

We are all supposed to be on the same side here chaps.

Attacking colleagues who are happy doing their job (as published by rostering without inducements) does nothing for anyone.

My roster for May has 2 long USA patterns on it. I didn't ask for them and other people might not want to be away so long. I do and I remain happy. If you are not happy may I respectfully suggest that you put your grievance in writing and send it to the Fleet Office. They might be able to help you. I can't.:ok:

[Phil Squares]

Generally speaking, my roster has been fairly stable. Flying about 55 hours/month, with perhaps 8-10 hours/month on average. No paxing in April, DXB-SIN in May and BRU-LHR-SIN in June.

As for "bidding system", there isn't one. As has been pointed out, Cargo tends to get the "leftovers". The SYD/LHR based get the most productive COPs with the 744 pax fleet getting their pick after that.

It really depends on your outlook if Cargo is good for you. Personally, I don't want to fly 80 hours/month. I enjoy being off 12-14 days/month. I, don't want multiple legs/day, as it is the SIN-MFM-ICN day is a killer.

Travel benefits suck...but I knew that when I joined. The only thing I object to was the change for the home base ticket. It used to be good system wide, but the last contract change about a year ago changed that. We do have unlimited ID75 with other airlines, but it's expensive and SA. A confirmed ticket is worth it and cheaper. At a previous airline, we had ID 90 agreements and ZED fares, but it's all SA. If you went to get someplace, having a confirmed seat is the way to go.

If anyone wants more info PM me.

Cheers

:cool:

[CARGOJOCK]

i received a pm from bananasbananas that he was offended with my post.

hence as this is a forum of professionals i extend my regret at having hurt his personal feelings.

SORRY MATE.
------------------------------------------------------------------
BUT FOR THE REST OF YOU GUYS WHAT I HAVE MENTIONED IN THIS THREAD IS THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.

DO NOTE THAT I AM GENERALLY HAPPY HERE IN SINGAPORE/SQ CARGO THE ONLY HITCH IS THE WORKING ROSTER. PLEASE DO NOT CONSIDER ME NEGATIVE.

I AM A PILOT AND OUR PRODUCTIVITY IS BASED ON FLYING AND NOT ON PAXING.

I TOO EXPECTED TO RECEIVE AN MONTHLY ALLOWANCES IN THE S$7000 RANGE AS ADVERTISED. BUT I AM IN THE SYSTEM AND MANY OF THE CARGO LADS ARE EXPERIENCING THAT THIS IS NOT TRUE.

ALSO DO NOT FORGET THERE MAYBE EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE FOR A FEW HOW THEY DO IT IS ANYBODIES GUESS.

TRAVEL PRIVILEDGES ARE ZEROOOOOOOOOOOOOO ONE SET FIRM TO THE HOME BASE AND BACK THATS IT.
THE REST IS ID75 BUT DOWNTOWN IS CHEAPER AND CONFIRMED TRAVEL.

TAXATION
1.THE FINANCIAL YEAR IS FROM 1 JAN -31 DEC OF A CALANDER YEAR.

2.YOUR FIRST TAXABLE RATE WHEN YOU START FOR THE FIRST FINANCIAL YEAR IS A FLAT RATE OF 15%

3.THEREAFTER YOUR TAX RATE IS 18%

4.YOUR TAXABLE INCOME INCLUDES GROSS SALARY/HOUSING ALLOWANCE/FLYING ALLAWANCE TOO

5.RENTS ARE NOT TAX DEDUCTABLE

6.EXPENSES IN THE COURSE OF EMPLOYMENT AND NOT REFUNDED BY THE COMPANY IS TAX DEDUCTABLE.
EG:TRAVELLING EXPENSES etc

[BANANASBANANAS]

Just a quick addendum to my last post. While CJ was kindly apologising for thinking I had shares in Cadburys I was PMing him to say thanks for the private apology he also extended.

I think we have established now that the only person I buy chocolates for is my wife!

As a general point I would suggest that its always easy to assume that the grass on the next guys roster is a bit greener than yours.

My first "solo" sector was 13 hours pax on a 777 to AMS, min rest then operate back to SIN with Phil Squares but I didn't mind that at all.

We are all on the same side here chaps.:ok:

[William73]

THANKS DEARs,

i am about to join SIA CARGO.Big decision in my life.It is a little scaring,when i do read some comments.Hopefully it does not look worst than the company i am working for at this time.Try for once a well known low cost airline,based somewhere out in LTN.

-Average block hours per months 85.
-Average duty time per day 10 hours.
-4 sectors a day.
-transit time average 30 minutes.
-block days average 5 in a row.Used to be 6.

When you land at 11pm,you are back home at 0000am.Then one hour to relax.Go to sleep.Wake up at 0900am,back on the road at around 0100pm.5 days in row.I may assure you that your first off day,when you wake up,you look like s... and then comes the rest of your private life.Hopefully you have kids and wife,and try to find some friends around.

Last but not the least,try this new plogs. GVA-DSA(Doncaster)-GVA then GVA-LIS-GVA.Planned duty time 11h35,providing that the french do not go on strike,or that there is no bags identifications.

I am looking forward to my new job.And looking forward to paxing,while someone else is driving me.Money is not everything...

Bye.

[F Dolarhyde]

Hello Cargojock (and all aspiring SIA Cargo pilots)!
Haven't you heard about the NOR scheme?
Not Ordinary Resident which allow anyone with more than 90 days away from SIN in a year (easily achieved for a cargopilot...) to get deduction of personal tax down to 10%.
Total salary (everything included) from company last year was about 225000 SGD (didn't work the full year). Income reported to IRAS 205.000 SGD (don't ask me how they calculate this).
With wife, two children and NOR applied my total tax ends up with 20.500 SGD.
http://www.iras.gov.sg/ESVPortal/iit/iit-se-a1.1.14+nor.asp
Regards,

[F Dolarhyde]

Having browsed through IRAS website I can see what Cargojock is refering to. He assumes that we are Non residents. Well, that's not correct.
"What is meant by a Resident Individual?
A Singapore citizen is a tax resident in Singapore if he normally resides in Singapore except for temporary absences that are consistent with the claim to be a resident.
A foreigner will be regarded as resident in Singapore if he was physically present or exercising an employment in Singapore for 183 days or more during the year preceding the year of assessment in a capacity other than that of a director of a company."
http://www.iras.gov.sg/ESVPortal/iit/iit-se-a1.1.8+residents+vs+non-residents.asp
So, as employed by SIA Cargo you are considered a resident for tax purposes and thus can apply the NOR scheme.
Even if you wouldn't apply for the NOR scheme the taxes are reasonable. Per diem is not taxed but everything else.
As a captain you make about 250.000 a year. Deduct the per diem (30.000) and you are taxed for 220.000.
On the first 160.000 you pay 16.050 and on the next 70.000 you pay 18%. 16.050+12.600=28.650 which is not more than 11.5 % of the total package.
You can make your own calculations:
http://www.iras.gov.sg/ESVPortal/iit/iit-se-a1.1.15+tax+rates+for+resident+individuals.asp
Regards,

[readufive]

Hello guys....very interesting posts. I still think the the positive´s outweigh the negative´s:hmm:. SIAcargo seems like a very decent outfit:) !

Phil squares, 2xbananas, cargojock...others....keep the posts comin´:8 Especially info from a few FO´s would be cool:cool: ........

Lets not forget that ultimately it is yourself who signs the contract.

Just had my interview delayed a bit......:ok:

[Round D. Globe]

Yes indeed, Great thread guys, thank you. These are truely the opinions (both good and bad) that help to make an informed decision!

Readufive, :confused: Delayed? did they say why?

RDG

[terrainpullup]

Very informative indeed.:ok: Few more questions:
Does SIAcargo provides: - Insurance (LOL, Health, Accident)?
- Provident Fund (EPF/CPF) ?

[Left Coaster]

Yes to one and kinda to the other. Group Life, with all the usual additions via QBE (free to employee and you have to pay for family...it's cheap) Works though, I have had to use it for the missus and a hospital stay for her. The contract pilots do not get any provident fund, but do get 10K$S for every year for the 5 years...LOL is provided after you become finalised in your position. I.E. confirmed as Captain or FO...That's all I know. anyone add to it?
THX LC
Oh yeah The dentist we found gives a good SIA discount, but look around for a good one. Cheers...

[readufive]

Left Coaster....good info there:D . Feel free to post more.......:ok:

Round D Globe......SIAcargo just sent me an email....so..delayed from late april to mid may. Lucky I had some vacation left-over:ooh:

More jitters....I guess:8 :8

[aceairman]

Hi all! I've just got an invite for the SIAC (744 F/O) interviews-10th May! Would very much like to know about the interview process, i.e., tech paper questions (if any), sim assessment detail, medical, etc. Highly grateful to anyone who dare tell all....!! Many thanks, fellow ace aviators!!:ok:

[readufive]

aceairman....good to hear! Just read this whole thread....there is a lot of information here...:ok:

Phil squares has indicated , that the process is straight forward.:eek:

I had my interview delayed a bit...will be there on the 16/05.:ok:

[William73]

Hi everybody,
i went through the selection process mid of february and should start the course next june.
Here are my impressions and remarks.
First,make sure that you have ALL documents requested in the post you received.Paper looks like a checklist,where they tell you how many copies and which documents to bring with you.They are very keen on having all documents in english,so either you make them translated and signed by an official translator or you do it byyourself,like i did with one of them.
You will be welcome by the Flight OPS secretary,she is very kind.
Then you will have a discussion with the deputy chief pilot and flightops manager(kind not sure anymora of their position).IT IS A DISCUSSION AND NO TECH TEST(like others airlines do).CONSIDER IT AS IF YOU WOULD MEET TWO PILOTS AND START TO DISCUSS ABOUT YOUR JOB,WHICH AIRCRAFT,HOW MANY HOURS,WHICH COMPANY.They will mostly speak about what the company will looks like.There are very pleasant and making you feeling comfortable persons.No stress.
Then later on you will be assess on a simu by an instructor from the pax fleet.At least in my case.You will be assist it by a regular FO and a simulator instructo.So three guys with you.As well there the people i met were very kind,nice,pleasant and one more time making you feeling comfortable.And then,for me , the must was the assessement on 777 sim.It is just great.You will enjoy it.Program was taxiing excercices,watch out your u turns,ask for switching on the camera display.Then normal TO.STEEP TURNS.ONE ILS APPROACH,SINGLE ENGINE.FULL STOP.ONE MORE TO,WITH A VISUAL CIRCUIT AND A LDG GEAR COLAPSE...THAT IS ALL FOLKS....THE END...
Next day,you are invited to the medical center on the airforce base.You will go through the same normal medical check that we usually go trough.Last but not the least after the medical check which takes at least three hours,you will have to go again,and do not ask me why,down town to the main hospital for again two others checks.Never had so quick tests when you will be go down.
And then i suggest you to walk through the town a little and have some rest and drinks.
Go luck to all of you.

[Round D. Globe]

William73

Thank you for the post. Very informative. Can you please expand on the medical portion of the interview? Seems like it was very thorough.
What all was involved?

RDG

[William73]

Meeting at 0900am.You should stop eating at midnight.But if you have some fruit no one will notice.Tested.Then blood test,urine test,x-ray for lungs,ears,eyes.For the earing ,it is quite tough,but as long as you are not deaf,it works.Then what seems to be strange,you will have to go downtown to make again an ear test and eyes test,the same that you did in the medical center.You have to pay only for the examination in the medical center.The two done in town are included in the total cost.That is all...
Good luck..

[SQ228]

I just had a chance to talk to few long serving local SQ B744 captain at slip station. They acknowledged that there is something wrong with the B744 rostering system for quite sometime.. One local captain clock 30 hrs last month while another 88 hrs. (one extreme to another). SQ has yet to fix this despite many complaints. I guess not only DEC suffer 'unfair' treatment on rostering, but local captains as well.

[etops777]

I've been invited to attend the interview on the 30th of May. Anyone here going on that date?

Apps sent in on 20th of March and received an invitation 10th of Apr.

[aceairman]

Hey Readufive:
Thanks! Looks like we might just miss each other as mine's on the 10th/11th., and I plan on leaving SIN by 12th/13th May latest. Unless of course mine's also been delayed to 16th., and I haven't been informed as yet??! Good luck anyways, mate! We could xchange some info via e mail? Try [email protected] as a start. Cheers! ;)

William73:
Very useful, comprehensive info, many thanks indeed! Do they expect you to fly that 777 sim like your current a/c? Also, what's the sit. re command upgrade, i.e. min duration on RH seat, terms and conditions, merit(?!), seniority, command assessment, etc., any ideas?? I believe if you accept local terms (eventually) this can come quicker? Cheers mate! :ok:

[Left Coaster]

SQ 228 et al... I'm guessing there will be changes in the rostering as a number of issues are still to be decided...namely who goes onto the 380, 777-300 and whatever else is being looked at (sectors etc) so yes, there are people looking into all of the rostering and crewing levels for the future. No decent airline wouldn't. At least IMHO...Cheers

[artax]

Hot damn! I want this job!

[david16]

Hi every body i`m new in this forum, if some body help me to find some information about where to live in singapore, rent an apartment ,best places, best prices etc...:ok: i suppose to be there on the nexts months.
thanks again.;)

[CDRW]

William73 - "You will be welcome by the Flight OPS secretary,she is very kind." Haha that got me chortling - she is the infamous JA and she is NOT very kind. She is your first hurdle and she has scuppered many a candidate so be ware of her. She used to be the mainline interviews but has been transferred to SIAC. But you are spot on when you say get your paper work in order - that is a big help to have it exactly they way she asks!!

David16 - apartments a plenty!!! Need a bit more info but a colleague is moving out of his "company rented apartment" - he is mainline and is taking up the cash in lieu of housing offer- and he found a two bedroomed, 9th floor apartment on the east coast with all the usual facilities - pool, BBQ, mini mart, - for 2k. So more info on what you want - i.e family numbers, schools?, etc.

Good luck

[Mr Gammon Flaps]

Question: Why would anyone apply for cargo and not mainline if the terms are better? I see on the pax website they are looking for expat skippers.

The hours requirement is a thousand less, but that seems to be it.

[readufive]

Hi every body i`m new in this forum, if some body help me to find some information about where to live in singapore, rent an apartment ,best places, best prices etc...:ok: i suppose to be there on the nexts months.
thanks again.;)

Hi David16 :)

Im the happy wife of readufive :D ( and yes - I like all the nice faces too.... lol - just like him...:) :) ). Well -read u5 is at work, but there´s
a web-site called " www.singaporeexpats.com" - there you can find all kind of usefull information :ok:
Good luck to you all

-readu5´s better half :8

[CDRW]

Gammon. I also have no idea why . A guess would be to fly a jumbo?? But as one FO on the cargo fleet puts it "Cargo are bottom feeders". But the Tand C for cargo certainly have improved from the absolute rubbish that they where offering when it all started, and that first offer they made in terms of T&C, should be an indication of just what sort of people you are dealing with.

[david16]

Thanks CDRW and readufive wife`s , I`m gonna take a look to the website.
For the other hand CDRW in this moment i`m moving just me to singapore may be in a 6 months my wife. How long is the ground and line training?:ok:

[Lear45XR]

Hi,

What are the actual time requirements vs posted ones (website) to get the interview?

Thanks!

LR45XR

[airamerica]

Interesting and a very informative post.

Can I ask chaps what sort of monthly pay can an FO excpect to take home per month?
S$5600 basic plus all other allowances?Considering the living expences of Sing, commuting impossible unless prepared to have most of the slary eaten up by ID 75's, hardly worth the get out of bed bother on top of the second class citizen traetment, or have I got it wrong.(Hope I have)
AA

[4PW's]

I'm surprised to read about the hours you're flying, Bananas.

No-one I know is logging the same, and none have the rotations you're flying.

Yes you are fortunate to have them, but that's probably a function of cycles.

Though I hope it lasts it should be said to readers that your patterns, pay and degree of happiness with things in general is not shared throughout the Cargo division.

For those who wish to join SIAC, by all means do so.

And as you are informed, expect 40 hours flying a month over an 11 month working year with perhaps slightly less time commuting either in First or EY, each and every month.

[Gunman returns]

4PW's

Having just undergone the assessment for SIA cargo I am slightly concerned about all the positioning in Economy that you state. I was lead to believe at the interview that all positioning over 3 hours was in Business Class ,which I can live with.Is this incorrect?

Regards
TFG

[4PW's]

Yeah, but only if there's a seat. Otherwise you're in the back.

[BANANASBANANAS]

Edited as the post to which this was a reply has been removed/edited

[dinosoar]

4P, how long was that pattern you described, from Day 1 to back at SIN?

[aceairman]

Hey Guys (Gentlemen/Ladies), anyone with some good info on the SIAC interview sim assessment ride? I believe its done on the B777....or have they switched to something else.....the B747, perhaps?? Also, what of command upgrade prospects....what one's required to accept to have a speedy one, etc.(in addition to seniority)?? Cheers! :ok:

[etops777]

Interview on the 30th of May.

Can anyone here described a typical roster for FO? Days off(Average), block time? Length of trip?

Many thanks

[Phlaps 40]

Thank you to all who have made informative posts. It's really appreciated.

Would someone be willing to post actual experience levels of successful FO candidates? Min and mean?

Thanks very much :)

Phlaps 40

[CARGOJOCK]

REMEMBER SQ CARGO IS ALL ABOUT PAXING AND MORE PAXING.

IF YOU ARE LUCKY YOU GET TO FLY.

GUYS THAT ARE HERE LIKE MYSELF JUST WAITING TO JUMP SHIP AS THE BOND TIME LAPSES.

SINGAPORE IS GREAT AS A PLACE NO OUTDOOR LIFE ONLY IN A BUS,TAXI OR A PARK 10X10 SIZE AND CELLPHONES.

[Left Coaster]

What's missing? I fly over 75hrs (barring any roster changes) in June, and only pax once. Without being able to "see" anyone elses roster to look for where it might be "evened up", it's hard to know where the problems might be. In addition, is it a Capt. or FO problem? (Who has the better rosters?) I also might think that judging from your attitude twds your "domicile"... this place just generally sucks anyway, so that kinda gives me an idea of where the "tude" comes from...All that in mind, is it worth trying to fix? Or are you simply gonna roll over til it's time to go? Might want to think about your fellow crewmembers and how they might benefit from having this problem looked at. Going in to the boss with a complaint (about anything) without a possible solution in mind will only get you asked to "bounce" on out. Try to be constructive, and we might get somewhere.:D

[F Dolarhyde]

What's your problem Cargojock?
I agree that there could be more flying and less paxing in SIA Cargo but you and Warden seems to have lost it completely.
I average 50 hours a month and that's what I expected. One just had to look at the COP's which were given out during the interview and one could easily see that it wouldn't be more than that.
Outdoor life in Singapore? Of course it's not like Alaska or Australia but didn't you have a map when you signed up for this? With about 650 square km and 4.6 million people it's not so hard to understand that you can't do a three day wilderness trip, is it?
On the other hand, considering the long layovers you should have plenty of time to do your outdoors...
I have not met anyone who wants to leave because of few hours. I've met a couple of commuting guys that are unhappy and I can understand them. I would never try to commute while working for SIA Cargo, the unstable rosters and sporadic standbys would mean to many days wasted away from home.
Another thing; please release the caps lock button. Having it on only makes the text harder to read.

[vector3]

I did my interview in february for Sia Cargo as a F/O. They checked my papers, 10 min interview and then sim-check in 777 sim.Medical the day after.
Not a big deal, as long you have all the papers in order.I met some of the Cpt and F/O`s(expat) over there,and got some information how things are in SIAC.Got an imp that the few Cpts i met were very happy and the F/O`s not that happy.I`ve now got an offer to start the conv-course in end of july...

[david16]

Any idea whats the income in sia cargo for f/o:ok:

[jack747]

Hi. I am here for almost 2 years and I have to agree with CARGOJOCK (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=136333) . For 2005 my flight time was 450 h. Positioning is 30-40h/month.
But I want to top up some more.
Travel. Our ID tickets as mentioned before are more expencive than street price (with firm seat). But our `free` tickets, once a year, are at the same price! It`s value goes to our income and we have to pay about 15% tax on that. For example europe flght, one way, is valued for ~3000,- SGD so we pay 450,- plus all taxes !! One way and they call it free !!! And this is not all. As they call it home base ticket, you can fly only to one (for ever) SIA destination, close to your home. No way to use this ticket for vacation to another place.
Child school allowence is 1400,- for a child, but again, it goes to our income, so pls deduct 15% from it, so it comes to ~ 1260,- I do not know if they pay it for the whole year, or only time the child goes to school.
You are talking about days off after long COP-s. So far, we, Cargo, follow a company policy (CA) it means unions deal. In the nearest future Cargo is going to use their own , CAA rules, so max number of off days after a long COP will be 4. The same is going to affect our hotels.
Resently, I was positioning together with other cpt from main fleet to LHR and BRU. His ticket (LHR-BRU)was booked and he was sitting in busines class, I was booked and sitting in economy. It is not a big deal, but a year ago we were flying together, and isn`t it a second category treatment ?
Things are going worse and worse, and for the future , there is no light in the tunnel.
For all new comers, consider all lies form the contract; excellent trvel , payment for positioning flights ( there is one case where they pay you for that, but it never happens on 744), free home base tickets, big bonus, productivity (they promise 7000/month, in real it is ~4800,-).
All the best for all.

[CARGOJOCK]

Jack747

at least someone agrees with me remember guys and gals i have told you the whole truth.

Yes with singapore airlines it is hard to believe thats why everybody was hesitant to accept the true position in SQ CARGO.

Thanks what a relief.

[Left Coaster]

Hi guys,
Couple of questions about Jack747's post, if I may...I am pretty sure the school fees equal 12 months, can someone comfirm for us? Thx. Regarding the ALPA S and CGO T and C's, where did you get this info? I would like to see some material wrt your statement. No challenge from me here, I am simply curious as to how this might happen? As far as where a crew gets to sit when paxing, I was informed after asking about it that seniority (if it exists) designates where a crewmember might sit. If there is space galore, we all get a good seat (According, of course, to the rules) but when space is tight; expect fare paying pax to get the seat, not you. It's the same almost everywhere. Speaking of everywhere...tax on tix? Get used to it, no airline I can think of will give a "freebie" when they have to pay tax (also see taxable benefits) or have govt implemented surcharges on it themselves. Pass it ALL on to you...ask your buddies at other airlines, I would bet that they have to cough up $$$ as well. Standard practise all over the world. Sorry to have to break it to you here. Hope the rest of the job is OK, it does sound like the place is not too bad, and if a guy was to chill a bit... it might be fun...
C YA :ok:

[Chambudzi]

The school fees are paid for the time the child is at school and NOT during the holidays.
The taxes you pay of about 15% are paid on the price of a full fare ticket when you get a so called free ticket and you also pay the fuel surcharge.
The info about Cargo and Mainline splitting the Ts and Cs plus future planning came from a letter to all pilots on the 744 by the 744 mainline CP.
Left Coaster, if you come here your "happiness graph" is in need of a touch of reality. Im sure Jack747 and cargojock had similar happiness graphs to yours before they arrived and it takes a couple of years for the reality to be fully registered. It is a good job from a flying view and it is one of very few companies where the pilots are all screaming for more work but it costs a lot more than you are aware of to set yourself up so bring lots of $$$s

[Phil Squares]

I don't know about anyone else, but I get the reimbursment based on 12 months. Holidays make no difference at all.

As for the tax on tickets, that's true, but I haven't paid any fuel surcharge.

I have averaged about 550 hours/year and 13 hours of positioning for the past 16 months.

Granted a FO will do a lot more positioning than Captains do. :ok:

[serious flyer]

Got me an interview on SIA Cargo this May 17th.
I asked for a draft of the contract and the conditions on the bank guarantee and training bond to be sent me by e-mail, so I would know, before going, what to expect.
The nice SIA Cargo lady said "Sorry, conditions will only be disclosed on your interview".
I really don't like it :* , but I'm going anyway.
Rgds.,
SF

[Left Coaster]

So there are two answers here regarding school fees, I'll go to the source then, but thanks for checking. I must have missed the letter from the CP, is it on the website? (SQ) As far as my "Happiness Graph" that's my own business and I'm OK thanks. We all have different backgrounds and wants/needs etc, and mine will not be the same as anyone elses. Judging from these posts, I am thinking the serious grumbling comes from the FO side and I sympathise...The 550 hrs in a year (quoted above) is a decent avg for an Airline pilot, and if you have a read of the Emirate's posts on the other part of this site, it would seem we actually have some time to breath and do whatever it is we do on the time off we get. No rose colored glasses here, but experienced enough to see that some changes are needed, but might not be high on the list company wise. It's been said already in this thread that any complaining without solutions is met with silence...
Fly Safe

[jack747]

Hi guys,
Couple of questions about Jack747's post, if I may...I am pretty sure the school fees equal 12 months, can someone comfirm for us? Thx. Regarding the ALPA S and CGO T and C's, where did you get this info? I would like to see some material wrt your statement. No challenge from me here, I am simply curious as to how this might happen? As far as where a crew gets to sit when paxing, I was informed after asking about it that seniority (if it exists) designates where a crewmember might sit. If there is space galore, we all get a good seat (According, of course, to the rules) but when space is tight; expect fare paying pax to get the seat, not you. It's the same almost everywhere. Speaking of everywhere...tax on tix? Get used to it, no airline I can think of will give a "freebie" when they have to pay tax (also see taxable benefits) or have govt implemented surcharges on it themselves. Pass it ALL on to you...ask your buddies at other airlines, I would bet that they have to cough up $$$ as well. Standard practise all over the world. Sorry to have to break it to you here. Hope the rest of the job is OK, it does sound like the place is not too bad, and if a guy was to chill a bit... it might be fun...
C YA :ok:

Hi all. Regarding school fees, I wrote, that I am not sure how it works, but on other posts (Phil Sguares, Chambudzi) it comes that it is not sure how it works.
Ts and Cs; on every meeting with CP or anybody from roastering division, you can hear that. They are working on that subject, but untill we have to fly together with main fleet, we have CA rules.
Paxing; when you read the contract, it is stated that that above 3 hours you have a seat in busines class, that is all. After you join, there is one small addition, `according to the rules....`. The same is with payment for positioning. In general info they state that you will have half of flying allowance. After you join, again , `according to the rules` comes on, and you will be paid only in case positioning is immediately before or after you duty. On long 744 flights it never happens.
Tax on tickets; maybe you are right, but it is my third company, and first where i have to pay tax on my tickets. And pls do not mix airport taxes (what is normal everywhere) with our Personal Income Tax.
Rest of job is ok, but there is so many small things, disadventages, thay at the end it comes to your expences or gains. And what is unacceptable for me, many of this small problems could be easily solved without any expences from the company, just with a good will.

[jack747]

Got me an interview on SIA Cargo this May 17th.
I asked for a draft of the contract and the conditions on the bank guarantee and training bond to be sent me by e-mail, so I would know, before going, what to expect.
The nice SIA Cargo lady said "Sorry, conditions will only be disclosed on your interview".
I really don't like it :* , but I'm going anyway.
Rgds.,
SF

This is what I heard from CP.... why we have to change anything, recruting goes on....

[serious flyer]

Jack747,
Please don't get me wrong.
I'm going to the interview anyway, as I have gone through all the application issues. It does not mean I'm joining SIA Cargo no matter what.
I will get all the details on the contract (paying attention for what you wrote here) and then I will decide if it fits my expectations.
Rgds.,
SF

[Phil Squares]

Jack747,

I did check my contract and it's pretty specific about entitlements when positioning. If I position off line, then you're right 3 hours or more then it's C class. However, when positioning on SQ, it's F or C if there is room.

Can't say as it's ever really been a problem when on SQ, for the most part F or atleast C is always available.

[ceightoz]

Hello, guys.:)

As a beginner of this forum....sorry for interrupting.
In fact, I applied for SIAC DEFO.

I need help from someone who work as a SIA cargo F/O.
I have seen several questions about DEFO's roster and pay. but I also hard to find real reply for it in this forum.

Would, please--. Somebody show me the actual 30 days schedule and hrs?( with average pay will be appreciated ,in view of F/O., )

If you can’t reveal on web site, please PM me.

Thank you. again.

[david16]

I have the same question that CEIGHTOZ , please if someone have the answer ????:ok:

[ceightoz]

Silence.......Hmmm.........:bored:

Well........

I'm not trying to be rude. but......How come anybody ..?????

Please, I don't think all of us on this thread are captain.

would you please......some one help a poor F/O who is hungry on informations?

[CARGOJOCK]

i am a captain with this outfit.

however since there is a silence to the request from what the expat FO have been saying in the flight deck, they fly around 50 hrs a month and PAX 30-40hrs more.

NO CHANCE FOR COMMAND.

[Phil Squares]

i am a captain with this outfit.

however since there is a silence to the request from what the expat FO have been saying in the flight deck, they fly around 50 hrs a month and PAX 30-40hrs more.

NO CHANCE FOR COMMAND.

No chance for command as long as they remain expats. If they want to go to a local contract, then they can go into the pool. If they've had prior experience, then there is the 5 year plan.

[aceairman]

Hi all, I just passed the SIAC interviews (11th May) and expect my contract papers, etc., to come thru.....err.... in a few weeks(?) I guess! I just need a few bits of useful info to help plan my move to SIN in a few months, vis:
1) Whats the score on taking some valuable bits of personal effetcs with you?
2) How about a classic car (40 yrs old Merc), considering their very stringent motoring regs??!
3) Is there ANY chance at all for a possible move to SIA at some point??

More Q's to come soon, look out!!!
Cheers for now, folks! :ok: :rolleyes:

[Merlinrabbi]

Hi all, I just passed the SIAC interviews (11th May) and expect my contract papers, etc., to come thru.....err.... in a few weeks(?) I guess! I just need a few bits of useful info to help plan my move to SIN in a few months, vis:
1) Whats the score on taking some valuable bits of personal effetcs with you?
2) How about a classic car (40 yrs old Merc), considering their very stringent motoring regs??!
3) Is there ANY chance at all for a possible move to SIA at some point??

More Q's to come soon, look out!!!
Cheers for now, folks! :ok: :rolleyes:


Hi aceairman,

WRT to your queries, for Q2, you can't drive any car that is registered >20 yrs ago, but as for a classic merc, you have to apply for a vintage car licence and that includes a expensive road tax plus other restrictions.

Q3, i don't think it will happen as long as there is a shortage of crew on the cargo fleet. There are rumours that they are going to second SIA 747 crew to supplement the cargo ops.

cheers

[KRUGERFLAP]

HI Folks!

Where to go? JADE INTERNATIONAL Or SIA CARGO with the bond?

PM me please!

I have upcoming interviews!




Hi aceairman,

WRT to your queries, for Q2, you can't drive any car that is registered >20 yrs ago, but as for a classic merc, you have to apply for a vintage car licence and that includes a expensive road tax plus other restrictions.

Q3, i don't think it will happen as long as there is a shortage of crew on the cargo fleet. There are rumours that they are going to second SIA 747 crew to supplement the cargo ops.

cheers

[lubber line]

2) How about a classic car (40 yrs old Merc), considering their very stringent motoring regs??!


Er, OK, you MAY register your 40 yr old Merc, under the "Classic Car Scheme" subject to several conditions, the general one being that the purpose for registering it (under that particular scheme) is NOT to use it as daily transport.

For more info, see:
http://www.lta.gov.sg/motoring_matters/motoring_vo_policynschemes_classic.htm

In exchange for a reasonable road tax of $280 a year you get to use it only 28 days a year.

If you want to use it more than 28 days a year, then you just have to register it as a regular car, with no restrictions on daily use, and the road tax would come to at least $3000 a year. This is on top of painful ad-volarem taxes you would have to pay, whether as a classic car or a daily driver.

[Gerry Murphy]

I have been invited for an interview with SQ Cargo in July. I have read the recent postings and would be interested in hearing from anyone on the pros and cons of the job. I will coming aboard as non-rated Capt. off the 747-300
so the bond is a big issue. All thoughts welcome

[BANANASBANANAS]

Its very difficult to advise anyone as all our personal circumstances are different, but I will try to answer as best I can.

I joined last Aug as non type rated DEC and am very happy.

Pros:

New aircraft
Good routes
Great set of people to work with and for.
Decent salary and fairly low Income Tax.
Great place to live; clean, low crime rate and not too expensive.
Profit share

Cons:

Fair amount of (unpaid) duty positioning, can be in Economy.
Staff Travel. Only ID75. Full fare thru Travel agent is cheaper and you get a confirmed seat.
Leave entitlement - only 32 days a year
Bond. 56K Sin$ to put up yourself and total bond Sin$ 142K.
Difficult/Expensive to commute

Overall:

It suits my personal circumstances and, professionally, I am very happy. If I needed to commute to UK/USA/AUS on a monthly basis I think it could get a bit tiring/stressful.

At the moment we get some decent time off between patterns. That may change.

Hope that helps.:ok:

[Hachiouji-shi]

Profit sharing is a plus point about SQ. Not many airlines have a history of giving out multiple months of bonus! What was it a few years back... 7 months?

[serious flyer]

I did the job interview this week and everything was all right.
The people on SIA were very much friendly, no tricks or hidden cards.
One thing that was stressed on the interview was the positioning being like 40to 50 hours a month. They said it could often happen and that they don't want anyone complaining about it after agreeing to join knowing about it.
Regards,
SF

[readufive]

Hello guys...just did the interview at SIA Cargo.....I think everything went very well. Very decent bunch of guys/gals. Everything went exactly according to plan.....no "special" surprises at the interview. Just a talk about the airline....and outfit as a whole. Very freindly dudes.....I talked with..."Chief"one from Cargo and "chief"one from mainline 744. They where honest about the roster/hours/flying/out of base.

I don´t know why some on this forum have been surprised about thier conditions.....they told me at the -view, that you will fly about 50 hours
pr. month and pax alot.......................

As for command...I was informed, that it IS possible...you just have to get
on to the "local" contract...do 5 years......get assessed...upgrade. Again very honest stuff.

A very freindly captain from mainline took us through the simulator...again
no big surprises....777 flying..turns, steep turns, ILS, go around, eng-cut, single engine visual to ILS....I must say that triple-7 flies well!!!!

Please have ALL paperwork in order when arriving. This is important.

Compared with my present employer/situation, SIA Cargo seems like a very decent place....even for an FO-starter like myself. I was positively
surprised. Ofcourse....I have NOT been in the system yet.......but as far
as I can judge, SIA CARGO were honest and gave alot of information.

I have been a "low-coster" for 5 years...I am ready to switch!!!!!!

[Round D. Globe]

SF/Readufive

Welcome back. Sounds like things went well. Any idea long the wait
until you hear the results?

RDG

[readufive]

Round d globe.....It may take 2-3 weeks. There is alot of government/CAAS clearance involved.....If they say "OK", then its good!
IF they say "NAY"....well then its not ok I guess.

[aceairman]

Merlinrabbi / Lubberline:
Very many thanks for that extremely useful info on my Q's, especially the classic car one! :ok: (Mine's a 40 year old Merc 220 SEb convertible-know that one??)

I was getting a wee bit concerned as I got very negative indications from the people I asked, inc. an SIA mainline capt. and the interviewing panel themselves!! I guess its just 'coz they're not aware of the special exceptions available for classic car owners! There's so much useful info at that transport website! Relief.....!! :) You guys also classic car enthusiasts by any chance??
1) Anyhow, my other concerns are to do with the opportunities of command upgrades for F/Os who opt to switch to local terms...any takers on the exact scenario, i.e, can the five years we're told extend to, say eight 'coz the local boys get first preference??
2) Also, how about importing other personal effects, e.g classic hi fi, keyboard, laptop, etc.?
I quite concur with the recent passed interviewee vis a vis the people at SIAC, my impression exactly....great people, and very straight forward, no tricks, no mind games, fully up front!!
I guess I'm...sort of....quite looking forward to joining the team!!?
:) :ok: :rolleyes:

[lubber line]

Merlinrabbi / Lubberline:
Very many thanks for that extremely useful info on my Q's, especially the classic car one! :ok: (Mine's a 40 year old Merc 220 SEb convertible-know that one??)

I was getting a wee bit concerned as I got very negative indications from the people I asked, inc. an SIA mainline capt. and the interviewing panel themselves!! I guess its just 'coz they're not aware of the special exceptions available for classic car owners! There's so much useful info at that transport website! Relief.....!! :) You guys also classic car enthusiasts by any chance??
1) Anyhow, my other concerns are to do with the opportunities of command upgrades for F/Os who opt to switch to local terms...any takers on the exact scenario, i.e, can the five years we're told extend to, say eight 'coz the local boys get first preference??
2) Also, how about importing other personal effects, e.g classic hi fi, keyboard, laptop, etc.?
I quite concur with the recent passed interviewee vis a vis the people at SIAC, my impression exactly....great people, and very straight forward, no tricks, no mind games, fully up front!!
I guess I'm...sort of....quite looking forward to joining the team!!?
:) :ok: :rolleyes:

You're welcome. Yes, that ride is a very stately set of wheels.

Well, er, don't get your hopes up too high regarding the car. The first requirement is that it MUST be RHD. Absolutely, no ifs or buts. Unless you are able to get a diplomatic corp license plate.

Although the website you checked out does spell out the process for importing / registering a classic car, the secret sauce is missing - the tax man does not make public his valuation book, so it's a mystery as to how he will value your car, and therefore what taxes you will pay, will be a big question mark. It's a risk, say if he values it at $10,000 the taxes will come to about $28,000 (just a guess), if he values it at $11,000 the taxes will come to $30,800. So you see, it's not long before the whole situation just spirals out of control. All for the sake of driving it 28 days a year.

Maybe a better idea would be to stagger your imports, with the car being the last to come, if ever. That way you can have time to do some local research and see if you really want to bring it here. You can also network your way into the Malaysia and Singapore Vintage Car Register (google it). The worst thing that can happen if you bring it here on a gamble is that the car sits in a container in a bonded yard, you pay storage charges, documentation charges etc etc, you tear your hair out over the whole to-ing and fro-ing and then you ship it back after 2 months because you find the registration charges too silly. Cost of this exercise - at least S$5000 just for sending it here and back.

For the rest of your stuff, no problems at all, although you might find Singapore a cheap place to buy stuff instead of cart it all the way here from there.

Regarding the "five year promise" - it is quite a dreamy mirage at best, even for the locals. SINCargo is just about coming to 5 years of age, so ask them point blank, which of their FOs have they promoted?

By all means join for the rating and experience and a good time in the mystic east, but whilst there always always check out the market for faster routes to command, even if it means going to a smaller aircraft. Don't ever join with the hopes of getting command. It might happen eventually, eventually being a nice word for never.

All the best, I can sense your excitement, but come with your eyes open wide, and ask thorny questions.

[serious flyer]

Round The Globe,
They said for me that it would take from 4 to 6 weeks to hear from them.
Any contact before that would mean something got wrong (with my papers or my medical), and I would have to fix it.
A friend of mine that got the contract said that SIA Cargo contacted him 6 weeks after his interview (wich was on February) and now he has a B744 initial course date for September, 28th.
Rgds.,
SF

[sky_is_the_limit]

Does anyone joined SIA CARGO as FO with a B744 rating? And do you still have to sign a bond and/or give a bank deposit?
What about the pay? They say "you can expect a higher salary" is this true and if so anyone willing to share this info or please PM me.
Thanks
Sky

[Merlinrabbi]

Merlinrabbi / Lubberline:

I was getting a wee bit concerned as I got very negative indications from the people I asked, inc. an SIA mainline capt. and the interviewing panel themselves!! I guess its just 'coz they're not aware of the special exceptions available for classic car owners! There's so much useful info at that transport website! Relief.....!! :) You guys also classic car enthusiasts by any chance??
1) Anyhow, my other concerns are to do with the opportunities of command upgrades for F/Os who opt to switch to local terms...any takers on the exact scenario, i.e, can the five years we're told extend to, say eight 'coz the local boys get first preference??
2) Also, how about importing other personal effects, e.g classic hi fi, keyboard, laptop, etc.?
I quite concur with the recent passed interviewee vis a vis the people at SIAC, my impression exactly....great people, and very straight forward, no tricks, no mind games, fully up front!!
I guess I'm...sort of....quite looking forward to joining the team!!?
:) :ok: :rolleyes:

No worries. I'm no classic car enthusiast. I'm not a wet blanket but wrt to your Q1, unless they can give you a "black and white" on the command after 5 years, take it with a pinch of salt. I know of many mainline FOs who were promised 5 years command who had to wait till 7-8. But to be fair, I've also seen 5 years FO getting command too.

WRT Q2, I agree with lubberline, thats heaps of cheap stuff in Singapore, I think it would be cheaper to buy than to import.

Cheers ...

[aceairman]

Lubberline/Merlinrabbi

Hey many thanks again for all your help, info and valued advice guys-it sure helps to plan well and make good decisions! What would we do without helpful comrades like you??! :D

I suppose I could get all the info and cost/tax/duty assessments from the relevant transport/customs depts. before moving my car anywhere?? And if I then find it all unmanagable (costwise, etc.) I'd let it be, or perhaps try the (Vintage) & Classic Car Club (of Singapore/ Malaysia??) route, and see whether those chaps can't help with a few cost waivers, etc. Will do the Google search and ask them!

As for my other stuff, well its only my old classic Grundig Jet speakers (the round ones) that I would want to cart there (inc. myself), nothing much else! No wife, no kids.

I wonder if they'd agree to include the five year command upgrade clause in the contract-anyone tried that one yet??
I presume you guys are captains with SIAC??

Cheers for now! :ok:

[CARGOJOCK]

it appears some CARGO management boys are reading this thread and heeded the requirements if they are to recruit and sustain pilots.

starting with immediate effect the two operations- cargo & pax will be seperated to a great extent in that the cargo lads will fly their service intead of the mainline rats stealing the best of both.

the discrepency of flying was so great that shockwaves had echoed thru the management.
they realised that the cargo lads were been utilised well well below productivity hence the change.

a new circular has been issued informing crew of this change.

this would reflect with the reduction in the cargo lads building frequent flyer miles pax around the world as previously and now starting to fly the mega arks(B744) !!!!!!!!.

[billkill]

The walls are hearing...
the gods are watching...
well.....hopefully things turn out for the better

[Left Coaster]

Actually, not for repair...regular scheduled maintenance...Let's me get some great leave this summer! Good thoughts by the way regarding numbers, but if the talk about crewing levels was true (given at a spring meeting) and even though courses are running through September...it is interesting to note that Cargo is still staffed at below required numbers. That's for "pure" Cargo crews, and explains this is why mainline guys are still populating the roster. Having said that, it looks like a big effort is underway to keep the new hires coming, and that's huge work! Been there done that and it's a major PITA!!! And SIA has it's own probs with extremely busy sims...so planning is a big excersize. As stated above in this thread, some changes are already in the plans, and a separation of mainline and Cargo pilots is coming this summer. It's a paper action, as the separation is only from the mainline CA and it's rest regs, but it opens up a few more flights for the Cargo boys. Now if the staff travel rules could be matched with mainline...:ugh:

[Merlinrabbi]

Just heard from the grapevine that mainline guys are getting 3.03 months as bonus .. any news on cargo?

[speedtwoten]

for SinCargo???? a bonus????? hehehe:{

[Phil Squares]

Try 3.1 months for all in July 7, then another approx month in Dec 7 and then 13th month Jan 7

[CargoBoy]

Phil,

I believe the 3.1 month payout is all on July 7th. They used to divide the payment between July and December but now they are paying it all out in July. Doubt we will get anything in Dec.

Cargoboy

[Phil Squares]

Phil,
I believe the 3.1 month payout is all on July 7th. They used to divide the payment between July and December but now they are paying it all out in July. Doubt we will get anything in Dec.
Cargoboy


Was trying to find the details on the ALPAS forums. However, it appears you are correct. My mistake...:ugh:

[readufive]

Hello guys....I am sitting on needles! I was at the interview about 3 weeks ago.....still haven´t heard anything. Any ideas on how long it takes before you get a "go".......???:bored:

Congrats on the bonus..........:} :} :8

[millerscourt]

congrats on the bonus. All the bonus does is together with the 13 month salary in January pay the tax bill. The problem arises when the bonus is not paid!! SQ hate this bonus scheme and LKY in particular so do not be surprised when yet again they try and move the goalposts.

rudufive there is no time limit for a go or no go. When they have a go ahead to fill a course then they go down their list. Often they leave it to the last minute and take those who can get away quickly from their employer rather than waiting for those who have to give 3 month's notice.

Those in SQ Cargo will find just 3 month's Bonus will more than cover their tax as they are only flying 50 hrs/month and not being paid to position. Those in Mainline get a different deal despite what Phil would have you all believe!

[readufive]

millerscourt...thanks for that. I will just have to wait it out:sad: . What is wrong with "only" flying 50 hours/month?? I fly 80-100/month...and I sure don´t think its that funny............anymore:8

The dudes at the interview were very straightforward regarding the paxing and pay/no-pay.......no surprises.:bored:

[millerscourt]

readufive the only thing wrong with 50 hrs/month is the fact that SQ salary is based on a low Basic + Productivity for each hr/month. Less flying also means less downroute allowances as well so it all adds up. If you only do 600hrs pa as against say 900 then you get no overtime and all this could cost you say $20,000/25,000 SGD less pa than Mainline B744 Pilots. The SGD exchange rate now against Euro /£Stg and Oz$ makes the pay not look as good as it once was. Flying 900 hrs pa is not particularly onerous on long haul as a lot of it is " bunk time" One is also depending on a regular annual Bonus of at least 3 month's basic to pay the tax. With the A380 coming then even the B744 Mainline flying is up for a major change and not probably for the better.
From my experience in expats airlines with several types it is always better to be flying the premier aircraft in the fleet if at all possible as witnessed in GF with the Tristar/B767 where being on the wrong aircraft at the wrong time made for a horrible lifestyle towards the end. In SQ the A310/B747-300 and A340-300 fleets as they came to the end were reduced to just 30/50 hrs per month reducing the salary considerably with mostly turnarounds.


If you can afford a semi retirement job then SQ Cargo will suit some people fine. Positioning though at the rate that they do it can be painful and not something I would want to do long term especially when you are not being paid for it!

PS Even the 13th month salary and service increments are at the discretion of SQ. Read the small print. You only need another SARS or something similar for SQ to jump at the opportunity of not paying it!

[readufive]

millerscourt...ok point taken. Is it really that bad though? At the moment, I am flying for an LCC in Europe....we do alot of hours.....and the pay has
(just recently) become cr¤%#p!:ouch:
As far as I can judge...an FO in SQ cargo will clear about 10-12G sgd/month......that is almost twice what I clear from present employment!!!:eek: No 13th. month and profit sharing either!!:ugh: If I am incorrect...please correct me!

As for retirement....well not yet I guess...´bout 25 years to go.:cool:

millerscourt...feel free to write some about the job,:ok: :ok:

[millerscourt]

readufive I am not saying it is bad but pointing out that you should base your salary expectations on what is guaranteed and not assume that a Bonus will always be paid. The exchange rate is as bad as it will probably get for most currencies but who knows. Ask any Cargo Pilot whether they are getting anything like the S$7000 per month in productivity and Allowances which SQ show as being typical.I doubt it personally on just 50 hrs/month.

I have always advised anyone not to join any expat airline as a F/O except for Cathay where there is a open upgrade policy. With all the rest you are taking a big risk with your career IMO. Just look at EK where DEC's are the order of the day now and in SQ that has always been the policy, so there is no great incentive to upgrade non nationals. If it does not work out where are you going to go after your Bond is over in 5++ years time?( Still a F/O!)

[david16]

millerscourt you are saying it is a big risk take a job as f/o expact pilot but it would be a difference with pic experience in medium jet, at the moment to looking for a job as cap with both heavy F/O and CAP medium jets?.:ok:

[millerscourt]

david16 Yes I think it is a big risk joining as a F/O. If you have previous command time that should stand you in good stead I would have thought. I do not know what SQ are telling people like you at interviews. I would guess they would want a minimum of x years and hours on type before considering you for command but you will always be behind nationals. There is no history in SQ yet of dealing with experienced F/O's as in the past expat F/O's were taken in as semi Cadets. Over the years most left after their long Bonds were over ( 7 years I think it was) but a few have got their commands and are still here. One left after 500 hours command on the B777 to go to KAL a few years ago which did not please them!!

[Phil Squares]

[QUOTE=dabrat]Unfortunately Millerscourt is saying is all true.
The SIA Cargo job is good for Expat Captains( they make on average 18000sgd a month) and only have to fly 40 hours! It is semi retitrement. That is not going to last anyway. The plan is to start working them up to AOC (CAAS limits) which are higher than the Association limits, less time outside Singapore so less money on the daily allowance but more flying hours (which will equate to a little more in flying allowance but less in daily allowance so about the same thing or actually a little less in earnings!) 2 sector Double crews to Europe, minimum rest and back, etc...!!
No more dead heading on the passenger aircraft, will be on the freighter, and many more surprises. the profit sharing is about to change, check the latest advert (it says based on SIA Group AND/OR SIA Cargo)...sneaky..which ever is lower I believe!
QUOTE]
dabrat...
Well, you have some of the facts correct. It's just like semi-retirement (might want to get a dictionary), I'm off just about 14 days a month. Last year's IR8 was better than you might expect for being in semi-retirement.
The plan was to have us fly to the AOC, however, the scheduling computer can't do that, and it's too expensive to change. In addition, a quick look at the aircraft routing shows you can only really get 1-11/2 more days of work out pilots based on the aircraft routings. At no point in the immediate future will Cargo be staffed by only Cargo pilots. Thus, mainline will always have a part of the flying. Having the mainline CA limits just how much can be done. In addition, with rescheduling and other operational issues, what you suggest will never come to pass.
No more deadheading on pax aircraft!!! Dream on. The basic problem is the freighter doesn't fly daily to all the cargo destinations, thus the only way to position the crews is via the pax fleet.
I'd suggest you don't speculate on the profit sharing unless you have a contract. Since you mentioned the ad, here is the link and you can check for yourself. http://www.siacargo.com/First%20Officer%20and%20Captain%20positions.pdf SATS and SIAEC have the same language, however, just like us (Cargo) this year their bonus is on the entire group's performance. Our profit sharing this year is 3.1 months.
:ok:

[david16]

Phil, Dabrat and Millerscourt thank you for you comments as Dabrat said it`s not a perfect job but I think the perfect job it does not exist and i see there are different point of views inside de SIAcargo and i respect that, may be for some one who is looking for a professional improvement it could be a good chance.
:ok: Thank you guys.

[faheel]

Mainline guys already fly to the AOC limits (1000 hrs ) so there is no difference there.

In any case you cannot get 1000 stick hours out of the mainline people because expat cpts would have to do abt 93 hrs a month to achieve that.

Anything over 85 hrs is going to cost the company $220/hr so that is just not going to happen.

[Warden777]

it appears some CARGO management boys are reading this thread and heeded the requirements if they are to recruit and sustain pilots.

starting with immediate effect the two operations- cargo & pax will be seperated to a great extent in that the cargo lads will fly their service intead of the mainline rats stealing the best of both.

the discrepency of flying was so great that shockwaves had echoed thru the management.
they realised that the cargo lads were been utilised well well below productivity hence the change.

a new circular has been issued informing crew of this change.

this would reflect with the reduction in the cargo lads building frequent flyer miles pax around the world as previously and now starting to fly the mega arks(B744) !!!!!!!!.



NOT ONLY READING.....I 'M WONDERING HOW IS POSSIBLE - LEFT COASTER FLIES 75 HOURS AND IS VERY ACTIVE HERE, HM....

[Warden777]

millerscourt...thanks for that. I will just have to wait it out:sad: . What is wrong with "only" flying 50 hours/month?? I fly 80-100/month...and I sure don´t think its that funny............anymore:8

The dudes at the interview were very straightforward regarding the paxing and pay/no-pay.......no surprises.:bored:


only this: next 50 h u will fly as pax (50 +50 = 100), :ugh

[Warden777]

i am a captain with this outfit.

however since there is a silence to the request from what the expat FO have been saying in the flight deck, they fly around 50 hrs a month and PAX 30-40hrs more.

NO CHANCE FOR COMMAND.

Cargojack I disagree. On the local terms it will possible after 7 years, however Left Coaster mentioned that it will last 5 years, true but after this period they will take FO's for the P-Position not for command, small details but very important.

[CARGOJOCK]

sorry warden,

no offence but the few blokes i have met have not been given command.

yes some fools even changed over to local terms and they jumped from the frying pan in to the fire.

give us a name mate!!!!

yes they promise you that but getting it is a big difference. just remember a command course in SQ goes on for 9 months or more as many locals can barely fly in cat 1 minimums thats why they have many expats.even a 10 kt cross wind is a big achivement for them.

over to you

[BANANASBANANAS]

I wouldn't argue with most of what you just said CJ, but I would disagree with your comments about local F/Os.

Without exception, every local I have flown with has been professional, enthusiastic and extremely helpful.:ok:

[Left Coaster]

Really...Last time I looked it WAS 75 hrs...want a copy of my roster? Sorry its mine...Granted not all months are that high but this one is...Or are you implying something else?:=

[4PW's]

LC, would you mind quoting how much flying you did each month over the last 12 months?

Management describe the average monthly cargo flying done by Mainline and Cargo Captains as being 67 hours.

If I am doing 25 this month and many Cargo Captains are doing 40 or less, the Mainline guys are doing well over 67 in order to bring the average up to that figure.

Notwithstanding what this disparity means, the word inequality comes to mind, the difficulty is we were told and it remains in writing that the average flying and per diem pay would be $7000 per month.

Many based their calculations on this statement, which is a very fair calculation when assessing the merits of this job over the last job.

As it happens, we are having some difficulty in recruiting Captains and First Officers. It is thought the reasons are to do with remuneration, and that the word is out: the money and flying is not as advertised.

Cargo's Management are considering what changes need to be made, which is a welcome sign.

If you come from a LCC, readufive, that's fine. If you are coming as a First Officer, you have undoubtedly factored in the chances of upgrading to Command. I wish you well.

In that this on-going thread's primary conflict is just a matter of different points of view, as david16 states, I beg to differ.

Perception is subjective, finances are objective. As we are primarily talking about money and flying hours, the matter is not accurately described as merely different points of view.

The website advertisement states quite clearly that pilots can expect to draw an average of $7000 per month in flight pay and per diems.

Objectively, this isn't happening, which is why many pilots are concerned.

[4PW's]

...sick of editing...

I would like to stick my oar in about local First Officers:

SIA has done well to keep them flying the Cargo line.

Long may it continue.

[millerscourt]

4PW's The latest SQ Cargo website shows for Captains it is now S$5500 per month and for F/O's $4500 per month to be expected.

[Left Coaster]

Surely...this month is higher than others, and taking into account leave(s) my average since becoming productive works out to 50 per...
I too looked at the advertised flight pay and then took a figure off of it for advertising. Simple experience has jaded me somewhat and after looking at what was offered at other similar operators (and histories in the industry) made the jump. I havent had the full year deal to look at (soon) to finish my books but so far I have no complaints. Those who might look at the amounts quoted as gospel should realise that an airline schedule is liquid, and to think that a paycheck is going to be the same every month is a bit hopeful. Having said that, I do think a more balanced roster needs to be in place, and that efficient planning of scheds has to happen. All in all its just a job, and I learned a long time ago that no matter how much you want it to be perfect, it doesnt quite get there. Hope the system can improve for us all...
Cheers,:ok:

[CARGOJOCK]

dear readers,

SQ first officers are not exposed to real flying. what i mean is they are all well read and conversent with SOP/FCOM this and that procedures, but when it comes to handling they are very marginal.

can you imagine the SQ command course is between 9-12 months. why do you suppose this? average hours before command 6500-7000-P2.

as i said earlier these lads are happy to fly with expats for they learn a lot maybe all no good habits but they learn the most important of all " SELF CONFIDENCE". important they get many sectors when flying with the cargo fleet.

all though SQ treats the Cargo lads with step motherly treatment they appreciate the experience dispersed to the young cadets.

the mainline rats have the highest percentage for "unstable apporaches" are made by these blokes. for them ancourage in winter, carnasie in NY is a major hurdle and stress.
thats why friends, during winter we end up doing most of the demanding landings.

the cargo jocks have a wealth of experience.

think a minute

[gengis]

wasn't it a cargo jock who attempted a flaps up takeoff in HKG last year?

And wasn't it also a cargo jock who configured to Flaps 1 at 8 miles in ANC last year summer.... finally selecting his landing flaps 30 at 192 kts (12 knots above Vfe for F.30), touching down deadstick at 190 kts (50 kts above Vref of 140 kts) without actually having flaps 30 becoz of the flap load relief...?

[taufanganas]

CARGOJOCK

would you care to elaborate further with more details (like what gengis posted) or are you just shooting in the dark.. please either put up factually or , regrettably, shut up!. also please provide elaboration on the "we do most of the tough landings" comment.

cheers

[4PW's]

Thank you for the replies, LC and Millerscourt.

[4PW's]

It's been my privilege to work as an expat for some time now.

I describe it thus not because living abroad is any better than living back home, but because it has broadened my mind.

And in that time, I've seen a lot of ignorance. The dumb-ass post from Jock is an example. You give expats a bad name, pal.

Gengis, you might need to consider the effect of your post.

Airing our dirty laundry, which it is, brings the company into disrepute. The incidents you have so flagrantly exposed are firmly dealt with in-house. At this stage, you have achieved nothing more than to degrade your colleagues.

[Phil Squares]

It's been my privilege to work as an expat for some time now.
I describe it thus not because living abroad is any better than living back home, but because it has broadened my mind.
And in that time, I've seen a lot of ignorance. The dumb-ass post from Jock is an example. You give expats a bad name, pal.
Gengis, you might need to consider the effect of your post.
Airing our dirty laundry, which it is, brings the company into disrepute. The incidents you have so flagrantly exposed are firmly dealt with in-house. At this stage, you have achieved nothing more than to degrade your colleagues.


Couldn't have said it better!!!

The worst day at SQ/SQC is better than the best day at other carriers I've worked at.

[CARGOJOCK]

dear folks,

firstly the truth hurts.

i am not shooting in the dark as one implyed,i know so. as a discreet channel of information names are excluded.

as gengis mentioned those incidents are quite normal in SQ read the safety booklet, hence was the introduction "1000 feet stabilised no flags" , " RWY xxx IDENTIFIED" this after the taipei crash.
the system is what has caused it. captains are not supposed to give landings to FO as per the FAM-flight administration manual if wind crosswind more that X amount,rain, snow, certain airfileds due runway lenghts etc , all this has caused the young FO not to experience real flying with hands on stick and rudder.
only the expat captains would let the FO experience such situations as they have better experiences out of the system.
FO land in cavok light winds clear blue skies GREAT!!! no no...

hence when it comes to their command the poor chaps struggle to make it that is why a command upgrade course is 9-12 months.!!!!!!!!!!

as for the tough landings YES all the mainline rats locals especially avoid ancourage during winter. dublin due field length and they take their leave during this period. thats right finer details maybe you guys had not noticed.

SQ cargo is acceptable not ideal as there is a disparity in the TC. however i would only ask that the COP are made productive instead of all the paxing around.ref SQC web site allowances have been revised to lower figures.

keep firing...........lads

[blade747]

I prefer to be an expact pilot on SQC than work for EVA or CAL,. Everyone is free to write, but trust me there are worst places to be. I see many pilots trying to get a job on company`s as SQC.:ok:

[Sunny_Always]

guys, stop complaining, you've gotten the job and are flying, that's what counts, the passion.

i've still got to will till 26 to apply thanks to the concerned government.

the sia website says [successful candidates will be offered employment with sia/silkair/sia cargo] based on what i've read, being with sia is much better than sia cargo. how do they post the fresh trainees? pro'er ones to sia and the noobs to sia cargo?

[gengis]

Cargo Jock, both of the said incidences were by SQC EXPATS inside a span of six months, showing off their "wealth of experience" which all the impressionable locals love to learn from...

[overmars]

how do they post the fresh trainees? pro'er ones to sia and the noobs to sia cargo?

How will the company know who are the "pros" and who are the "noobs"? They don't. It is all based on time and space. Main fleet needs more pilots? Next course cadets are going to the main fleet. Silkair needs more pilots? Grab a couple from the next course.

And I find your statement about "noobs being posted to sia cargo" offensive.

[Sunny_Always]

Sorry, what I meant was maybe they post new cadets according to how they did during training.

You're implying that its more of random luck that new cadets go to sia cargo or sia, when this thread suggests that sia pilots are better off? Not very fair isn't it?

[Phil Squares]

Cargo Jock, both of the said incidences were by SQC EXPATS inside a span of six months, showing off their "wealth of experience" which all the impressionable locals love to learn from...
Gengis, do you really want to open that can of worms?

[ceightoz]

Calm down, gentlmen.....Here is a poor pilot who even don't have job.
I understand there is a conflict among us. I have seen in my previous company. The military and civil pilot's dispute about flying skill.

But let's calm down.

I also think this kind of "flying skill" is not a proper subject which post in this forum.

Let's not fight for nothing. At least, I admire all you guys as a nice propessional pilots.

Anyway I'm in deep trouble. I know just one phone call can solve it but Hee Hee Hee...well....I'm a coward.:O

Is there anybody who have any notice from SIA cargo after interview.
I had interview on may. I know it usually take 4-6 weeks but Do they also call or email to everybody? ( I mean not only for successful candidate but also who doesn't make it)

many thanks.

[In the slot]

Hello Gents.

Compliments to Phil Squares for trying to add decorum to some rather inconsiderate statements.

Cargo Jock.... I have been in SIA far longer than you, and your statements are the kind that not only give expats a bad name, but also tempt fate. I assume you sleep very well at night knowing that you will NEVER have an incident or accident, as your operation is so superior to many others.

I know that I will never sleep as well as you, because I will never feel immune.

I also suggest you learn how to spell ANCHORAGE, seeing as you make so many references to it.


I also agree with PS that airing in-house flight safety data in a public forum is not very professional.

If you would have the guts to identify yourself Cargo Jock, I will look forward to flying with you, and you opening my eyes to what you seem to know so well about SIA/SQC.

Until then, I trust your sweeping statements, and disdain for your local co-pilots, will not catch up with you too terribly.

[Chambudzi]

Yep Like 'In the slot' I am one of Cargo Jock's "Mainline Rats" who has many more flights with local pilots than he has managed in his short stay with SIA.
Saying that we and especially local Capts avoid Anchorage in winter- makes good, ego salving cockpit banter and the odd dimwit may believe such nonsense but it simply isnt true. Anchorage is no big deal in winter Cargo Jock, except for you perhaps, and is no different to any other European, Asian or American destination in inclement wx.
I suggest you avoid your devisive rants Cargo Jock. If you were more objective you would take the cargo COPS and rearrange them to make all cargo pilots more productive yourself. Believe me, if there is a way to get less 'paxing' done with the same amount of pilots, SIA would love to hear from you. Your superior abilities should be put to better use so dont hold back, go in and show management how they are slipping up on pilot productivity. It can only improve your flying and time away.

[blade747]

Anybody knows about how long is the ground and line training and if you have some free days between each one, or you have to be in singapore during all the process:ok:

[millerscourt]

blade 747
The course can take anything between 3 and 5 months to be on line, depending on Simulator availability and aircraft. There is plenty of time off between various events. If there is a delay in sim you may well find you are sent on forced leave as SQ like to get rid of this whilst you are unproductive.On my course years ago local F/O's who were not able to be slotted into the sim for three days were forced to take these three days as leave!!

If you leave Singapore during days off it will be at your expense as there is no entitlement to tickets until 6 months in the company. Unlikely that you will get enough days off in a row during the training to go anywhere except close by unless it is taken as leave.

[blade747]

Thank you millerscourt for your replay and how many sectors I have to do to my line check?

[CARGOJOCK]

Yep Like 'In the slot' I am one of Cargo Jock's "Mainline Rats" who has many more flights with local pilots than he has managed in his short stay with SIA.
Saying that we and especially local Capts avoid Anchorage in winter- makes good, ego salving cockpit banter and the odd dimwit may believe such nonsense but it simply isnt true. Anchorage is no big deal in winter Cargo Jock, except for you perhaps, and is no different to any other European, Asian or American destination in inclement wx.
I suggest you avoid your devisive rants Cargo Jock. If you were more objective you would take the cargo COPS and rearrange them to make all cargo pilots more productive yourself. Believe me, if there is a way to get less 'paxing' done with the same amount of pilots, SIA would love to hear from you. Your superior abilities should be put to better use so dont hold back, go in and show management how they are slipping up on pilot productivity. It can only improve your flying and time away.

dear sir,

do you agree that a command course for the local lads on the 744 or 777 take 9-12 months to complete?.

if so why?...... i can tell you so because they have only landed in CAVOK less than 5 knots. some lads when they are due for command they refuse sectors, so i asked why so they cannot muck it up!!!! yes thats how tense they are....
command should be a change of seat most of the lads taking command have 6500-7000 hours what a waste. they are hardly given sectors most of them love to fly with expats as they give them more flying experience.

as for the rosters the mainline rats sorry for the reference but it is true you guys treat the cargo lads like trash, you take all the plum cargo flights why don' you change fleets the pax 744 fleet is dying and you must learn to change over to new technology.

[Chambudzi]

Cargo Jock
You seem to believe there is some kind of raging argument between you and me over Copilot to Capt training in SIA. There is no discussion in my post about this subject. I suggest you read what "In the Slot" had to say to you again and answer him, since my comments were in full support of his view.
My particular argument with you is --
1) Your devisive referal to me and the 300 odd SIA mainline 744 Capts as "Mainline Rats". You are constructing a division between us that I believe most of your Cargo compatriots don't want. Perhaps we could hear from some of them on this matter.
2)That you are imbued with superior flying skills which are forced into use when we supposedly avoid Anchorage and Dublin during winter. This nonsense is born out of your ego and a paranoid imagination.

"as for the rosters the mainline rats sorry for the reference but it is true you guys treat the cargo lads like trash, you take all the plum cargo flights why don' you change fleets the pax 744 fleet is dying and you must learn to change over to new technology"

This last statement is juvenile and it is a bit worrying that such a lack of logic exists in the mind of one of our operating Capts. Precisely how do I/we 'treat cargo pilots as trash' and why would I/we even want to. None of us writes our own rosters so we are incapable of 'taking the plum flights'. Your comments about changing fleets and new technology are pointless within your argument.

We fly the rosters we are given, wether it be summer or winter, within the boundaries of a bidding system that allows us about 4 bids/flights per year--- just like you.

I refer you back to the main thrust of my previous post.

"I suggest you avoid your devisive rants Cargo Jock. If you were more objective you would take the cargo COPS and rearrange them to make all cargo pilots more productive yourself. Believe me, if there is a way to get less 'paxing' done with the same amount of pilots, SIA would love to hear from you".

[millerscourt]

blade747 Line Training about 8 Sectors which was what I did but I had been to most of the places in the SQ network before.

I will not get involved in the rant elsewhere on this thread.

[CDRW]

Chimbudzi - I could not agree with you more - well said.

CargoJock your statement ".......... but it is true you guys treat the cargo lads like trash," is way off the mark. I will give you that a few of the more senior old crusty boys may be derisive, but most of us "mainline rats" as you so eloquently call us, would sympathise with cargo guys.

The reason that a command course takes 9-12 months here, is beacuse of the system that is used - it is archaic and far too long, but that is the system they ( the management) use, and it is not because the F/Os do not not how to fly or handle adverse conditions. This is a punitive airline, and who can argue with the attitude of first officers that would rather let the captain be the PF when conditions are challenging.

[Phil Squares]

Chambudzi, I can't agree with you more. In the time I have been with Cargo, I have never experienced any "second class" treatment from any of the mainline pilots, instructors or anyone.

There has been a concerted effort to improve the productivity of the Cargo COPs. However, the real problem or block is within flilght admin. There is an unwillingness to change things. There was a recent TCC about Cargo being separated ASAP, how we were going to fly to the AOC limits. Not so fast, it costs money to change the rostering system and no one wants to spend the money or at least have it come out of their budget.

You're also correct in your statement about mainline pilots flying the schedule's they're assigned. However, I will admit, I have had some nice SYD/MEL layovers taken away for a mainline pilot to fly. I did get them reinstated after raising the issue with the DCP.

For me, Cargo is a great deal. I have enough time on the aircraft, I don't want to fly 80 hours/month. As it is, I might fly 50 and position 15-20 hours, I'm off 12+ days/month. Life is good (for me).

Granted Cargo isn't for everyone, and neither is mainline. It's really all what you make of it.

:ugh:

[BANANASBANANAS]

Ditto Phil Squares comments.

When I read some of CJs postings I really wonder whether we are working for the same airline.

My sim and line training was conducted in a very professional and gentlemanly fashion and I have experienced nothing but courtesy and kindness from all of the SIA (Mainline and Cargo) personnel that I have had dealings with.

:ugh:

[clown889]

hmm...
i cannot understand why anyone would be SO Unhappy when
1. You are flying with one of the biggest and most profitable airline.
2. You are flying in one of the most modern aircrafts
3. You are flying in one of the newest aircrafts around
4. You are paid to do what you supposedly love to do - ie. flying
5. You are paid well above many of the other pilots flying in LCCs
6. You are paid more than the local lads with your allowances.
7. Your pay is in the top 10 percentile in Singapore
7. You are staying in one of the most modern and safest cities in the world.
and many many more.
:ugh:

[blade747]

blade747 Line Training about 8 Sectors which was what I did but I had been to most of the places in the SQ network before.

I will not get involved in the rant elsewhere on this thread.

millerscourt once again thank you. I think you`re right it`s the best you can do stay away , I dont know why we have to fight between us

[readufive]

Hello guys....just wondering...I attended the interview in mid-may. I still have not heard anything from SIAC yet. Is this normal? I am getting a bit jumpy......:8 :8

The government/CAAS check....does it really take that long?

(Can´t wait to fly with CJ......IF I get in! ):ok:

[blade747]

If you are in contract term and you wanna try on local before 5 years can you do it? or you have to wait until your contract over:ok:

[artax]

At the interview they suggested joining on expat contract then switching to local contract; this can be done at any time with just a day's notice. Then the clock starts ticking on your five years minimum to command.

[CARGOJOCK]

At the interview they suggested joining on expat contract then switching to local contract; this can be done at any time with just a day's notice. Then the clock starts ticking on your five years minimum to command.

hi! artax,

The short notice to change maybe true, as for your command possibility as an expat FO on local terms , lets say your are a good dreamer.

there have been a few that have got there command in such a case but too far and few between.

GET MY DRIFT!

GOOD LUCK

[artax]

I dream not, I'm just repeating what I was told at the interview. It does seem clear enough that five years is the absolute theoretical minimum, and it could be far longer in reality.

[CARGOJOCK]

I dream not, I'm just repeating what I was told at the interview. It does seem clear enough that five years is the absolute theoretical minimum, and it could be far longer in reality.

Well they say a lot at the interview what you like to hear. Flying is 30-40 hrs and paxing 40-50 hrs average.

Talk is cheap, if you get it on your contract in black and white that is something with a time frame stipulated then you are in business.

Why join on expat terms join in straight on local terms.Local terms SQ CARGO saves on accomodation allowance/kids schooling etc.

There are a few FO that have been in your position and joined in and changed over to local terms. and you know what.....

They still are FO and command what is that?

SUCKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[readufive]

artax.......have you heard anything?:bored:

Cargojock....wow...they must really have promised you something, that they couldn´t keep! At the interview....they were very open and straight forward about the paxing/pay/roster/upgrade.....I did not get the feeling that they were hiding something.......and I am a REAL suspiscious fellow!

Ofcourse IT is much(!!!) more difficult for a non-local to upgrade...everybody knows that! That is just the way it is....I guess:ouch:

Anyway...its good to hear your opinion also.......I can guarantee you that you could be worse off(degraded/downgraded/massive pay-cut/pension-cut/crap-roster/funny(not haha) colleagues)

[CARGOJOCK]

WELL UNABLE TO READ YOU!

GO AHEAD GUYS MAKE MY DAY! I SHALL HAVE THE LAST LAUGH.

[hang time]

Hi guys,
I received notice in May that an interview date for SQ Cargo was available in July which I readily accepted. I received an email yesterday from HR that the company was ceasing further interviews immediately and indefinitely. My interview was scheduled around the last week in July. Anyone have any info. on what's happening or was it just my email penmanship?

hang time http://www.globalgentlemensclub.net/forums/images/smiles/th_lam.gif (javascript:emoticon(':comphit:'))

[serious flyer]

Sorry to hear that Hang Time, but the problem on SIA Cargo may be the training, that must be full.
I was on Singapore last May, doing the interview and got myself a Transition course for next November.
A friend of mine that went on the end of June was informed that if successfull he will get a Transition course on April, 07.
They have also sent 2 or 3 B744 to Great Wall, so less aircraft, less jobs.
SF

[millerscourt]

readufive

I think you will find that people like Cargo Jock were not informed that they would be doing so much positioning and little flying. And they were told they would get $7000 per month on top of the Basic. This has now been downgraded to $5500. Only now are they due to the discontented early arrivals telling people like you the real story as word has got around.

[Round D. Globe]

Did I read HangTime right?

Did SIA Cargo stop interviewing? Anyone have any info?

Is this all part of the log jam created by the delay's of the 380's on the mainline side?

RDG

[winglet_fever]

Did I read HangTime right?

Did SIA Cargo stop interviewing? Anyone have any info?

Is this all part of the log jam created by the delay's of the 380's on the mainline side?

RDG


To what i understand (hear say), some of great walls' pilots will be taking up sim slots in STC and sale of 747s to dragonair is tagged with STC's sim hours too, thus the big jam coming up soon. As is, they are rather chocked up to their available capacity. It will be interesting.

can anyone confirm this?

[aceairman]

Oh,Oh,Oooh...I sure hope this ain't true, guys....or is it??! :uhoh:
I passed my interviews in May, and was made to understand I should expect start of training around Aug/Sept. Last message from them a coupla weeks ago was:...."all coming along well", meaning the clearance processes, etc. So is this now likely to be put back another coupla months or so?? Anyone with some insider info??
Cheers! :ok:

[readufive]

In the same boat as aceairman..........................:bored: :bored:

[asia757]

Just wanted any who have expectations on the class date, in late 2006, that it is unlikely to happen. I interviewed early June and was told that if successful I could expect a class date in November 2006.

I requested an update on July 12th, from SIA Cargo via email, and was told in the response to expect a class date in April 2007 "IF" I am successful in the paperwork process.

Not good news but at least some news and no real explaination for cause.

[readufive]

Hey guys....asia757......that does not sound good. I interviewed in late may.....................I have tried to write to them via email, to ask about the process......but no real news..just no status on my application.......definately no talk about start dates.

Yikes....very strange.....anyway i still hope to hear from them soon....I guess.:ok:

[goma]

Boring i know but with no glass time what are my chances with SQ Cargo.
Briefly... 12000hrs 9000p1 jet.
Cpt widebody on dc10 cargo aircraft
UK TRI
sensible replies chaps,keen to apply but no glass,
many thanks :ok:

[Capt.Bee]

Your chance is huge,no doubt. Be careful with the paperwork. This is the place where most of the competition's done. Don't screw it and you are in. Coming from a good company helps a lot. Your credentials and background is 75% of the deal. Good luck.

[goma]

Many thanks Cpt Bee,will continue to do the paperwork.:ok:

[CARGOJOCK]

A Special Meeting Has Been Called For Sia Cargo Pilots On The 18th August.

This Has Been Arranged To Address Issues, As There Is A Growing Resentment Amongst The Cargo Crews.

Rosters Are The Primary Reason As Many Crews Still Average 25-35 Fligt Hours A Month And Paxing For 45-55 Hours.

Preference Still Is Extended To The Dying Mainline 747 Crews Who Continue To Get The Best Of Both Worlds.

[millerscourt]

Cargojock. And why wouldn't mainline get the best of both worlds? Why do you think SQ set up SQCargo as a separate entity?

[O'Neill No6]

As always Millerscourt you talk total rubbish in my opinion.

You say why shouldn't mainline have priority? Well that's the whole point mate. We are supposed to be going independent, therefore the influence of mainline should be reducing. I know that mainline, and particularly, B744 may have their own axe to grind. However, the fact remains that IF SIA Cargo are really serious about setting up an independent operation, then the influence of mainline should absolutely NOT have anything to do with it!

I realise that I may be accused of naivety on this subject but the fact remains that many intelligent and well meaning people have made decisions on the shape of SIA Cargo and are implementing those decisions. To be eternally cynical in the way that you are is to ignore any decision making of any sort ever. (Maybe that is a definition of people like you?).

Somewhere there has to be a fact as to how this operation is to be run and to suggest that mainline (B744) pilots will always have priority when it is a dying fleet and as I reiterate, Cargo is attempting earnestly, in my opinion (at our level), to become a seperate operation is wrong.

Well, I have to say this is as ridiculous as many of your comments over the years.

Sorry mate, my opinion. You are terribly mis-leading in your message

[millerscourt]

O' Neill No 6 Firstly I am not your mate and secondly I said why wouldn't not shouldn't ( too subtle for you clearly to understand the difference) and it was a tongue in cheek remark which clearly flew well over your head.

Until such times as SQ Cargo is 100% self sufficient as far as Captains are concerned it will always be more efficient to use Mainline Pilots on a lot of the cargo trips as they can operate to some places as passenger flights and pick up a Cargo flight. As you lot do not get paid for positioning SQ will always take the cheaper option. That has always been how SQ have operated and never likely to change anytime soon.

[serious flyer]

Anyone that has gone to the meeting cares to share what was said over there?
I'm joining the company on the end of the year and would like to know what they are saying about the present complains.
SF

[alexban]

Just wondering,wouldn't be more convenient to do a selfsponsored type-rating on the 747,around 20000USD,if i'm not mistaken,then to apply to SQ? Doing this you won't be bonded (am I right? ) and you can leave anytime you wish...
And I think the cost of the type-rating won't be so difficult to repay if you have a decent salary...(around 200USD/month ,or less..depending on bank interest,loan length,..)
Also,you'll be able to program your course,and I think,do it faster than expected at SQ..
What do you think..?

[BANANASBANANAS]

If you have the money to pay for your own rating that may well be an option but bear in mind that if you accept the bond you get all your money back after 5 years and, apart from the admin fees for the bond and a low interest rate, it actually hasn't cost you anything.

One other thing to bear in mind. There were some high time B747 guys on my course and their training was slightly shorter but they still had to do the tech course (+exam) and sims for the issue of the Singapore ATPL. They also had to write the Air Law exam. The line training was only slightly shorter due to the requirement to do a Europe, Australian, China sector etc and I think they were only released to line about a month earlier than the rest of us.

If the freedom to give a months notice is worth $20k to you then fair enough but for us, the bond is very much the lesser of the 2 evils and Singapore is not a bad place to live at all..:ok:

[CARGOJOCK]

Nothing thats right "zero"

a whole lot of BS and thats about it. end result is that we guys will pax on "CARGO AIRCRAFT" direct to ANC or EUROPE and operate back. They plan on implimenting AOC rules which are more liberal than current CAA/ALPS collective agreement which gice us time out of base allowances in lieu of the flying time.

so guys hang on to your nuts this is going to be a hell of a roller coaster ride.

Rosters were the primary issue and they shall implement a two month block roster for selected crews operating selective COP's.

The bottom line is they (management) do not want to rock the boat for the mainline lads as they will continue their pick of the routes and COP's and we will keep doing all these crazy implementations which is "just a waste of time" and a charade.

travel priviledges too "NO CHANGE", we will only get ID75 so we all shall continue to buy the tickets in downtown for cheaper.

however we had a great buffet and beer and wine after the meeting!!!!!!!!!!

[AAIGUY]

B747-400 type is closer to 10K , not 20K.

[serious flyer]

Hey Cargojock,
Could you elucidate a little bit more?
So now you are going to get paid for traveling as pax on cargo flights? Or no, you continue not being paid, just change from the pax to the cargo flight?
And with the new rules could they tell how long will be the COPs? As I understand the present CAA/ALPS rules state that you can fly for 21 days in a roll.
And what do they mean about "a two month block roster for selected crews operating selective COP's"? Does this mean that they are to implement a bid system?
Nice to hear that at least you guys got some decent food and beverage.
Cheers.
SF

[alexban]

One reason I was asking this is cause I've seen many of you guys complaining of the fact that you're tied to SQ by the high bond,otherwise...just read all the above posts...
AAIGUY...about the 10k,any ideea where is it? What training center?

[CARGOJOCK]

Guys,

A typical COP would be you pax on a cargo aircraft SIN to ANC all the way via HKG.Then you would layover a day in ANC and operate ANC-HKG and deadhead same AC to SIN.

Yes they will pay you for the paxing time but remember the time spent in the aircraft will kill you after some time. whilst you slog a mainline rat will operate SIN-HKG AND take the same return flight HKG-SIN.
the boys that operate HKG-ANC whilst we pax will continue to LAX/DFW or whatever.

The present CAA/ALPAS duty times are more restrictive,hence when they go full time SQ CARGO AOC this will allow you to operate around the globe and be still legal.

as for the two months they want to do a trial of 21 crews for selected patterns and see the increase in productivity,IF successful they may implement it for all crews.what a bunch of BS!!!!!!!!!!!

But thats right a BUT, they will never let the mainline lads loose their plum flights. remember the management boys in charge of cargo must do their sim checks with the mainline lads, so they will maintain that the mainline rats get there pick ........... get my drift.

[AAIGUY]

AAIGUY...about the 10k,any ideea where is it? What training center?

Pan Am in MIA.

[CARGOJOCK]

hi folks,

not even 24 hours had passed after the SQ CARGO meeting with its pilots.

the singaporean newspaper "WEEKEND TODAY" of 19th Aug page 17 states in the corporate brief the following

quote
"Singapore Airlines said it's cargo venture in China would suspend operations. Great Wall Airlines will halt operations immediately after the US Treasury imposed santions on the chinese carrier's parent China Great Wall Industry Corp.SIA owns 25per cent of Great Wall Airlines." unquote BLOOMBERG

as mentioned earlier lads we all are in for a roller coaster ride.

Hang in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[serious flyer]

Does this mean getting back the 2 B744F that SIA Cargo sent there?
Sf

[speedtwoten]

Dear Folk, I was interviewed on August 2005, I'm rated on B744 as F/O, but my position at that time as Commander on B737 CL and had 1900 hrs command time, I'm applied for F/O position in national term, during the interview I was told that is better for me to joint other company Silk Air etc. and if I'm accepted my license will be endorst to Singapore CPL/IR and for command position I must have Singapore ATPL :\ , means I have to do/pay and take my own time to study again:ugh: now I had 3000 hrs in command on B737 CL, and what are the requirement to joint SinCargo, and what about the license, could I re-apply again since I'm rejected the offer to do the ATPL course once again althought I hold the Singapore CPL. Thank's for info:ok:

[eham]

Nothing thats right "zero"

a whole lot of BS and thats about it. end result is that we guys will pax on "CARGO AIRCRAFT" direct to ANC or EUROPE and operate back. They plan on implimenting AOC rules which are more liberal than current CAA/ALPS collective agreement which gice us time out of base allowances in lieu of the flying time.

so guys hang on to your nuts this is going to be a hell of a roller coaster ride.

Rosters were the primary issue and they shall implement a two month block roster for selected crews operating selective COP's.

The bottom line is they (management) do not want to rock the boat for the mainline lads as they will continue their pick of the routes and COP's and we will keep doing all these crazy implementations which is "just a waste of time" and a charade.

travel priviledges too "NO CHANGE", we will only get ID75 so we all shall continue to buy the tickets in downtown for cheaper.

however we had a great buffet and beer and wine after the meeting!!!!!!!!!!

Bananasbananas , Phil Squares , Left Coaster ...
What is your reaction to the above. You guys are quiet these days.
Do you agree with the JOCK ?
EHAM

[parabellum]

I had ten years with SIA on the -400 and CARGO JOCK is talking embittered tosh, most of his bile is misdirected and the product of his imagination.

The rostering of 'mainline' is a fairly simple procedure. The London based crews have their set patterns that they fly, designed to get the maximum hours out of each individual in their work cycle and yes, it means that getting an 'in-command' trip to LHR is pretty rare for SIN based crews, so every LHR includes Stby in London. The rest of the LHR based crews patterns are fairly ordinary.

The next priority is training and they will be given whatever COPs they need to ensure that training continues and that may include pax and cargo combined to maximise useful sectors.

What is left is dished out amongst the remaining pilots and if it is expedient to use a mainline crew to operate a freighter service to get them in a position where they can then continue to be productive to the maximum then that is what they will be rostered for. The mainline crews are more versatile as they can operate both fleets. Maybe CARGO JOCK joined the wrong fleet? Maybe he didn't listen enough at the interview or ask the right questions?

The idea that the mainline pilots can say to SIA, "give us the best combination of trips, or else!" is just pie in the sky and it doesn't happen. The best they can do is request a COP well in advance, requests are limited. The only governing factor is maximum productivity at the least cost, go ask the people who put the COPs together, they are the ones you should direct your venom at CARGO JOCK and should you have the courage to do so you will quickly see that your fertile imagination has led you astray!.

[BANANASBANANAS]

I haven't seen a detailed transcript of the meeting but I have just seen my October roster (on holiday most of September) and I am happy with it. I am not part of the trial block roster system and have just the one positioning sector SIN/HKG, one augmented sector and quite a few operating sectors. I suffered considerable roster disruption in August but that was hardly the company's fault as a Captain had gone sick in JFK and I picked up the pieces.

I think Cargo Jocks points about staff travel are valid (if made a little aggressively) but it was obvious from the contract that commuting could be difficult and/or expensive and I can't see the justification of complaining about something that was very clearly explained prior to joining.

Everyones personal circumstances are different. So, you do your homework before you sign on the dotted line, and if you don't like the look of it you don't sign. It's not rocket science is it? It's maybe not the best job in the world but it's a helluva lot better than anything else I have had and, for the first time in 10 years, I am no longer actively scanning the back pages of Flight International.

If offered a contract to age 60/62/65 tomorrow I would be very happy to sign. It can be very easy to compare your lot to what you think mainline guys get. Bad idea. We signed a Cargo contract. Only if that contract is broken will we have a genuine grievance. As far as operating to AOCR's is concerned - well thats what we signed up for, and because of the nature of the Cargo patterns it may actually be "better" (in terms of operating sectors and salary) for us to operate that way.

I can't comment about the free beer and food laid on at the training centre as I was in the company of Left Coaster and a couple of other like minded individuals enjoying ribs, red wine and some great conversation at a restaurant by a canal in AMS at the time.:ok: :ok: :ok:

[Phil Squares]

EHAM,

I wasn't at the meeting either, I was in AKL. I have my roster through Oct and I can't complain either. I'm not part of the "trial", but I am very happy with what I have.

My contract expires in less than a year, what I'll do is still up in the air. To be honest, things haven't gotten better and the divide between mainline and cargo is only widening. Parabellum is correct in his post about rostering. However, I think what most cargo guys object to is the fact we get what's left over. The thinking is cargo should get the choice of their rosters and then SIA gets what's left, after all, as SIA and SIA Cargo mgt like to point out, they're two separate companies! You can't have it both ways.....


I enjoy living/working in SIN, but there are "better" deals out there. Time will tell. :}

[ironbutt57]

Ya I can picture Lefty in AMS....:cool: :ok:

[millerscourt]

Phil My word Phil you have done a quick 180. I had you down as the unofficial recruiting sergeant ( along with bananas) for SQ Cargo up to now! What has changed all this?

[Ray Darr]

Ya I can picture Lefty in AMS....:cool: :ok:
I.B..... Ya git's BACK in yer BOX, ya long-eared varmint!http://photos.hotfreelayouts.com/pics/496/shooting_smiley.gif :}

Cheers, buddy. :ok:
~ R.D.

[BANANASBANANAS]

Not me MC. My comments about SIA Cargo have been positive but that is because it suits our personal circumstances and I have tried to highlight that in all my posts. If we were looking to commute regularly to UK, USA, AUS etc then I think that life may not appear so rosy.

Staff Travel and Leave could be improved. Management are definitely aware of (and deserve credit for trying to do something about) the various Rostering issues, but we will have to see how it all shakes down. Other 744 operators definitely pay more and offer commuting contracts. Several of our number have already left for those very reasons and it may be that SIA Cargo choose to compete with these operators by looking at the package again.

Mr & Mrs Bananas remain happy in Singapore but our somewhat unique personal circumstances are a large part of that. It is vital that you do your homework before you join, know exactly what the contract will, and wont, do for you and life can then be fun.:ok:

[millerscourt]

Bananas Yes I appreciate your personal situation which makes staying in this region worth you staying in SQCargo.

As for SQCargo "choosing to compete with other operators" this would mean combining Mainline fleet with Cargo probably and offering the full Mainline T & C's. This would be a huge 'loss of face' and something I doubt they could stomach. One only has to look at their mentality regarding ID90 and 75 Tickets. Seeing as how you only get them if there are empty seats why on earth do they limit Mainline to just 4 ID90's pa until 10 years service and SQCargo only have ID75's It is totally illogical but shows their way of thinking.

[Merlinrabbi]

One only has to look at their mentality regarding ID90 and 75 Tickets. Seeing as how you only get them if there are empty seats why on earth do they limit Mainline to just 4 ID90's pa until 10 years service and SQCargo only have ID75's
Hi millerscourt,
Mainline guys have unlimited ID85 and unlimited ID90 once they hit 10 years service.
Cheers