Shift patterns&flexibility?

[rob151]

Hi,

I've wanted to apply to train as at ATCO for years and I've finally been accepted. However in recent years I have started playing rugby to quite a decent standard and ideally I dont want to have to give that up prematurely.

I know its by no means guarranteed that I'll get get through the training but my concern is if I make it as an ATCO, is the any flexibility in the shifts I work or are they set in stone?
Does this vary at different units?

The games are normally 2/3pm k.o on sat or sundays therefore making morning/afternoon shifts no-go's for that day. Do people swap shifts as I wouldn't care any other shift I swapped with, or is that not something that is done?
I also heard that its not possible to take single day holidays-they have to be taken in 6-day blocks.

Any advice is appreciated.Thanks.

[261A]

nats.co.uk > recruitment > ATCOs > FAQs > Shifts > Answers :confused:

[SilentHandover]

Shift swaps are certainly possible, we have one fella who plays saturday football, he usually manages to arrange his shifts so that he can play most weeks.

[Stupendous Man]

[QUOTE=rob151]The games are normally 2/3pm k.o on sat or sundays therefore making morning/afternoon shifts no-go's for that day. QUOTE]

And Day shifts.

So really you would just want to work nights at the weekend. Unless of course you are planning on going drinking after your matches.:p

If you are serious about being an ATCO then are certain sacrifices that need to be made. This would appear to be one of them in your case.


Good luck in any case :ok:

[flower]

Whilst undergoing validation training I would say there is zero chance of swopping shifts, after you are valid still the chances will be low as many others enjoy having the rare chance of a weekend off.
I know it will seem frustrating but there are many more benefits to working shifts than not.
Good luck with your course.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Some swaps are also impossible due to legal restrictions on ATCO hours and minimum rest periods.

At best, you'll have some months where your shift pattern causes no problem, some months where leave or a little shuffling can solve your problems, and other months where nothing can be done and you'll have to turn up for work like everyone else.

You also might get posted away from being within travelling distance of your current club and have to find another to play with ... with no guarantee of getting in to the team ;)

[261A]

If your not prepared for shifts then you know where to go ;) :}

[055166k]

rob 151
You should have no problem getting Saturdays off, it's normally pretty quiet. Several of the controllers would probably do a swap, or some-one will do your duty for you in return for a small consideration. In fact there is one chap I know who hasn't worked a Saturday for over three years....and he was promoted recently.
Another version of this tale might read differently:-
Saturday is the busiest and most complex day imaginable, no sane person wants to work on a Saturday.....especially if you have to work more than your fair share to cover for "sickies".
Swaps are possible, but regular requests get up people's noses. Do you want to play rugby or be a controller? Decision time approaches!
You don't want to get a reputation as one of the "Standback Fusiliers" or nicknamed "Stealth"....[ i.e. never seen on radar] before you've even got started. Sorry if this seems vicious....but do some more homework.
In serious mode for a moment; there are severe restrictions on annual leave at a unit such as Swanwick....you can only take a maximum of 18 days leave in the summer period....you need to bid for that leave in 2 blocks of 6 days up to a year in advance....if there is any leave left unbooked you may take the remaining 6 days in blocks between 2 and 6 days. By the way...NATS defines "summer" as May to October. It is often impossible to take your full leave allowance because there is none available; this results in a backlog of untaken leave and there is an 8 leave-day maximum carry-over to the next year...you will lose a few days.
Cheer up....this is a fantastic job....the good outweighs the bad many times!

[AlanM]

Easy

Just do a tower rating and get posted to London City Airport - they have to close by 1230L every Saturday (and then you can get drunk and not be in until 1230L on the Sunday!! :)

There are a few at TC who still play for Staines Rugby (but you said High Standard!!! :) :)

(only joking boys)

Good luck

[rob151]

Thanks for all your replies. They have helped alot.
I understand that being a controller is a commitment but if possible I still want to keep a healthy work-life balance by doing something I love if its at all possible.
055166k do you have to take time off in the summer? The season is normally Sept-April so taking time off in the summer wouldn't be needed.
Thanks again for your advice.

[Arkady]

Summer leave is mandatory, and you wouldn't survive to the winter without it.

You can manipulate your leave and the roster to give you the time to play sport, I have done it, but there are draw backs.

All this applies to LACC but I imagine will have some relevence to other units. Having a hobby or sport you can immerse yourself in away from work will be a godsend while you are training and leave is easier to come by. Once you are valid leave is generally taken in six day blocks with four rostered days off either side so with some forethought you can use your leave to maximise your Saturdays off. In the Winter getting extra days off at the weekend are more likely so that may help. Requests for particular shifts (mornings spins rather than afternoons or nights) can free up more Saturday PMs. Generally, collegues will understand your reasons for arranging to have this time off and will often help you out. Many of mine have.

However, you have to be consistent. You will quickly lose all goodwill if you arrange to have a Saturday off for a match and do something else instead. You will have to be prepared to sacrifice your other time off to help out your collegues with what is important to them.

You can work shifts and play sport to a pretty high standard - BUT YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO DO MUCH ELSE and you will have to be very sensitive to the favours others are doing for you.


Something worth doing is never easy. Two things worth doing is a lot harder.

[Turn It Off]

Summer leave is mandatory

I thought it was madatory for the company to make 2 cycles available to all staff. Didn't realise it was mandatory for me to take leave? Can someone confirm it pls?

[flowman]

rob151
The very fact that you are already looking at the possibilities of manipulating your shifts would indicate that you are ideal ATCO material and should have no bother with your training. :}

[250 kts]

rob 151
In serious mode for a moment; there are severe restrictions on annual leave at a unit such as Swanwick....you can only take a maximum of 18 days leave in the summer period....you need to bid for that leave in 2 blocks of 6 days up to a year in advance....if there is any leave left unbooked you may take the remaining 6 days in blocks between 2 and 6 days. By the way...NATS defines "summer" as May to October. It is often impossible to take your full leave allowance because there is none available; this results in a backlog of untaken leave and there is an 8 leave-day maximum carry-over to the next year...you will lose a few days.
Cheer up....this is a fantastic job....the good outweighs the bad many times!
This is not quite the case.Summer for leave at Swanwick is May to September inclusive. There should be the facility for all staff to take their individual leave entitlement. That would be 18 days for someone with the full 33 days leave and the amount pro-rata for those with a lesser entitlement. If you haven't got the ability to take all of your days then I would suggest that the calculation for your watch is incorrect and that an additional column need to be made available-there should be no need to carry forward leave let alone lose it. You shouldn't have to work more than you are rostered for to cover for "sickies" either-maybe that's just a watch thing!-unless you are one of the regular AAVA workers 055166K-in which case that's your choice to be there.:confused: :confused:
Back to your original point. This is a 24/7 job. I would suggest that during the rugby season you would be able to get most of the time of that you want from managing your own leave effectively rather than relying on others to bail you out. Doing swaps is extremely validation dependent. Just to give you and idea my watch is rostered for 4 Saturday and 3 Sunday afternoon duties between Jan and April not including about another 2 of each where you could be required to spin off the nights. You could probably get to have most of the weekends off that you need from your own leave entitlement. You could also consider not taking all of your summer entitlement to save for the winter period-depends how keen you on rolling about in a field with a load of people of your own sex.:eek: :eek: :eek: Unfortunately staffing is so tight the days of staff turning up after their football matches on a Saturday afternoon are long gone.

[chevvron]

I wonder how many ATCO's marriages are in trouble due to the shifts worked.

[MancBoy]

On our watch there is so many couples who want the same leave that there are very rarely many odd days available to take leave.

It's either a full cycle or fit in with everyone else. On full leave entitlement its roughly 7 sets of six in a leave year, so out of 36 cycles in a year thats not a lot.

Plus people get a bit unhappy with people taking the odd day here and there meaning people cant take a full set of six and get a decent length of holiday in.

For those not familiar with swanwick shift patterns, six days leave means 14 days away from work.

[flowman]

I wonder how many ATCO's marriages are in trouble due to the shifts worked.
Probably better to ask how many ATCOs marriages are NOT in trouble due to shifts worked.

[250 kts]

MancBoy,

I do presume though that your leave co-ordinator keeps a track of where others have to move leave to accommodate the couples. The time will come where the couples will have to shift theirs to allow others to have what they want. Also I assume that when the original leave allocation is done priority is given to those who are bidding for the full cycles. If you specially want the few odd days then this should be your 1st choice and then you take the risk of not getting your long blocks off. On our watch the 1st 2 choices are of 6 days each but there is nothing to stop you breaking that up if you really want and indeed many people do. It all depends on the flexibility of your leave co-ordinator and their ability to know what they can get away with in terms of validations. A flexible Watch Supervisor also helps.

[Arkady]

I thought it was madatory for the company to make 2 cycles available to all staff. Didn't realise it was mandatory for me to take leave? Can someone confirm it pls?

You know, I'd never thought of it that way. You may be right but I stand by my assertation that if you don't take any leave in the summer you'd never survive to the winter. In practical terms, with the available leave columns, it would be almost impossible to take all your leave in the winter without carrying over too much leave (at LACC).

[NudgingSteel]

I wonder how many ATCO's marriages are in trouble due to the shifts worked.
When my (non-ATCO) wife stopped work for maternity leave, she couldn't believe how much time I spent at home! Complains frequently that I'm always under her feet in the house....

[flower]

TIO,
when the mandatory leave issue came in at the last set of pay negotiations 2 years ago the same question was raised. As it was explained to us at the time the company had to make available for you to take those cycles leave but you could take it when you wanted.

But I agree, I don't think anyone could work the whole summer without taking some leave, saying that it can be very difficult to actually get the time you want especially when people with children want to have the time off during summer holidays. ( most of the time not a problem on my watch but I do know others have problems)