I'm Not Going on any Det!!!!!

[RCOV 2 ENG]

With the way things are going now, what with JPA, Capped Actuals, overstretch with both men and equipment, low morale, is it no wonder that so many people are so p155ed off and going off out the door?
What used to be the detachments overseas, the long hours working, but then a bit of R+R. This has all gone now. All that is left is heading East, trying to make the best of what equipment you are given, to try and help stabilise other countries,which by the way seems not much further forward considering Telic was nearly 3 yrs ago now!
It is time for people to start acting with their feet, which indeed they are! Why should we remain in the Forces when we receive absolutely no thanks or praise from both our own hierarchy high up in Westminster and the Govt?
We are paid the X Factor!! Imagine if we werent? Lucky us eh?!! It just about makes it worthwhile. Still wait for the new dets on capped actuals. The first person to say " Nah, I can't go, I have to pay my car insurance this month!" This will prove to be interesting! Why should you have to spend any of your own money doing your job? It doesn't matter where in the world you are. It should be noted that eg/ the american and aussie welfare policies compared to ours is simply embarassing!!! Lucky us though we still get our 20 min phonecard!!!
Is it any wonder in this day and age why so many people are so annoyed, and leaving? Its about time we started getting looked after a wee bit better!!
All P15H!!!
Minzastella! ( I've got a receipt for a very lge diet coke!):{ :yuk: :*

[4Foxtrot]

( I've got a receipt for a very lge diet coke!):{ :yuk: :*

As long as you keep that receipt for 12 months, everything will be fine.

[Tonkenna]

Ah... but at least the government is fully supportive of its military. Must be, I heard them on Radio 4 saying so:uhoh: :suspect: :hmm:

Tonks :cool:

[Talking Radalt]

The first person to say " Nah, I can't go, I have to pay my car insurance this month!"

Errrrrr..........say again, over? :confused: Which military unit did you join?

[southside]

I couldn't let this one go without a reply....here goes

With the way things are going now, what with JPA, Capped Actuals, overstretch with both men and equipment, low morale,(What low morale? Morale is particularly high in the FAA) is it no wonder that so many people are so p155ed off and going off out the door?(No they are not)
What used to be the detachments overseas, the long hours working, but then a bit of R+R. This has all gone now. (Nope, they are still there)All that is left is heading East, trying to make the best of what equipment you are given, to try and help stabilise other countries,which by the way seems not much further forward considering Telic was nearly 3 yrs ago now!
It is time for people to start acting with their feet, which indeed they are! (No they are not - PVR rates are the same as they have been for years)
Why should we remain in the Forces when we receive absolutely no thanks or praise from both our own hierarchy high up in Westminster and the Govt? (Now that simply is not true, you clearly didn't listen to the Governments speech last week)
We are paid the X Factor!! Imagine if we werent? Lucky us eh?!! It just about makes it worthwhile. Still wait for the new dets on capped actuals. The first person to say " Nah, I can't go, I have to pay my car insurance this month!" This will prove to be interesting! Why should you have to spend any of your own money doing your job? (Why spend your own money when you can spend the MOD's?)It doesn't matter where in the world you are. It should be noted that eg/ the american and aussie welfare policies compared to ours is simply embarassing!!! Lucky us though we still get our 20 min phonecard!!!
Is it any wonder in this day and age why so many people are so annoyed, and leaving? Its about time we started getting looked after a wee bit better!!
All P15H!!!
Minzastella! ( I've got a receipt for a very lge diet coke!)

[Safety_Helmut]

Troll Alert ! Southside is on the boards. Troll Alert !

[BEagle]

As is his alter ego 'Tourist'...

Ignore both.

[Almost_done]

Please can Southside send over some of the gas he is using to breathe over to the SH engineers as we need a lift. Oh sorry, I forgot we are too busy to use it, due to working for a living not floating about in the FAA Flying Club.

[ZH875]

What low morale? Morale is particularly high in the FAA All due to everyone p1$$ing themselves laughing at Southside:bored:

[L1A2 discharged]

Why PVR now when the next redundancies are out on 3rd April (about 0900 hopefully). Application form complete :) and waiting to check the allocations:ok: , if not in the bracket :{ then its time to PVR, not before.

[Safety_Helmut]

Hope you have better luck than me L1, applied twice, turned down twice. Put my notice in instead.

S_H

[sooms]

I think that in the age of equal opportunities etc.. Anyone who does not fall into the tranche 3 redundancy field, or who has their application for redundancy turned down should be allowed to pvr and get the full financial package.

Oh, and anyone else who pvr's too:ok:

[Daede1]

Im not military (Nearly RAF Pilot but broke my leg a week after selection, and kind of went off the boil a bit), but its kind of worrying from the civvy side of the fence when we read that the best thing about being in the forces is the redundancy package.
S'shame, cost the majority of middle (Read quietly desperate) England is dead proud of the jobs you guys do, i for one would rather the 190 quid i spend on council tax - for a council that only collects my rubbish once every two weeks, and the last time i saw a police man was when he overtook me at a million miles an hour on the motorway - went on buying decent kit and training for you guys.
And im fed up of reading that american bases have pizza parlours etc etc. Im going to start a movement to get a pie and mash shop on every UK Military installation, including Porton Down.

[JessTheDog]

(No they are not - PVR rates are the same as they have been for years)


Not according to the AFPRB Report of 2006. They get some of the dots in the right place, but can't seem to join them....

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/6D265526-082E-41F7-B959-CFDA341C3CBA/0/afprb_rpt_2006.pdf

In general, the latest information suggests a worrying reverse of recent stable trends with an upturn in PVR application and exit rates during 2004-05 and into early 2005-06.

[southside]

Hey Im good at joining the dots. From that evidence it would appear that the PVR rates in the RAF are going down, the RN is also going down and the Army seems to be on some sort of see-saw ride.

As far as Ratings goes, its much the same. RN down, RAF down and Army, down and then up again.

[Tigs2]

PVR rates are bound to be dropping because weve got tens of thousands of less people to actually PVR.

[southside]

well, thats obvious. Of course PVR rates will drop when we have fewer people who are PVRing...

[unkind43]

Do not forget that once warned for an operational tour, or whilst serving on an operational tour, you rights to PVR are removed. I think that must take about 40-50% of people out of the equation.

[Almost_done]

well, thats obvious. Of course PVR rates will drop when we have fewer people
Fixed, there you go Southside

[southside]

Im disappointed. 26 minutes. Not good fellas, not good.

[Almost_done]

Im disappointed. 26 minutes. Not good fellas, not good.
Let me get back from work will you, I'm sorry that we can all spend the day spamming forums as you seem to do :}

[SlipperySlappery]

Southside,

Now that simply is not true, you clearly didn't listen to the Governments speech last week

I'm more interested in actions, not words.

[southside]

well do something then? Or are you the kind of bloke who likes to sit on his BFA waiting for good luck and enrichment to come to him? If you want to change your lot then stand up, go to your boss, wing co, air Cdre or who ever and say


"Sir, Ive got this fab idea to improve morale, its cheap, user friendly, wont hurt the environment and the boys (n girls) will love it"

Now your going to say " oh, they wont let us do that, they don't allow us to have ideas" well. my friend you'd be wrong. Only yesterday my fleet arranged a day of inter squadron rivalry.. The day started with a competiotion in recognition, continued with competitions in Radar approaches, radar plotting, winching, M3M gun firings...then a game of footie between the boys and then in the evening a lot of beer..... Cost to the Navy? asbout 5 flying hours but you could justify that with trainng. Cost to the environment...we messed the footie pitch up a bit....BUT, the chance to allow the boys n girls a little fun, a bit of rivalry and a lot of beers....PRICELESS.... Morale in the Lynx fleet is now somewhere between here and the moon.

[pigsinspace]

I
And im fed up of reading that american bases have pizza parlours etc etc. Im going to start a movement to get a pie and mash shop on every UK Military installation, including Porton Down.


Don't bother I prefer Indian.

[southside]

whilst were on that subject. Am I correct in my understanding that when PAYD comes into force, the little food shops and burger vans and eatery's scattered around the airfield will have to go? Even Mrs Miggin's pie van..? will that have to go?

[pigsinspace]

whilst were on that subject. Am I correct in my understanding that when PAYD comes into force, the little food shops and burger vans and eatery's scattered around the airfield will have to go? Even Mrs Miggin's pie van..? will that have to go?


I have heard on the grapevine that all Sqn bars and tbars will have to go or else be administered/ run by whoever gets the PAYD contract, true or not?

[southside]

and I suppose that means the end of cheap beer in the Mess then...?


Hmmm........

[SlipperySlappery]

Sir, I've got this great idea to improve morale and will impact approx 75% of all UK military aircrew. It involves a single bullet and a bloke who calls himself 'Southside'. It won't break any laws because shooting trolls isn't illegal.

[L1A2 discharged]

Do not forget that once warned for an operational tour, or whilst serving on an operational tour, you rights to PVR are removed. I think that must take about 40-50% of people out of the equation.

Not quite correct. Once warned you can still PVR, however you won't be released until you have completed the OOA for which you are warned. Difficult for the chefs who are warned for their next tour during the current one ....

[unkind43]

I stand corrected

Open source

(4) If a recruit seeks to exercise a right conferred by this regulation at a time when soldiers are required by an order under section 10 of the 1955 Act (continuation of army service in imminent national danger) to continue in army service, that recruit's service shall not determine for so long as that order remains in force.

[Climebear]

Close unkind43.

Within the RAF and I guess the more senior Services, an airmen has the right to give 18-months notice to leave the Service enshrined in statute - The RAF Terms of Service Regulations 1985 or RAF ToSRs ;) (Statutory Instrument(SI) 1985/1820 subsequently amended by SI 1989/994, 1990/2374, 1997/231 and 2001/542). There are RM and Army ToSRs too. It is this right that is restricted by the quote you mention - however, the imminent national danger has a high threshold (ie only when Ivan, Fritz or Pierre is about to swim across the channel). (I seem to remember that 2 of the Services have stopped this happening in the past; but, I digress). This Notice as a General Right is different to PVR and it does not apply to officers.

PVR on the over hand has no statutory basis so the Service(s) can decide (and vary) the terms on which it is offered. Hence why, in the RAF, different cadres (trades/ranks within trades/holders of TQAs etc) have differing waiting times for PVR that can change dependent on the manning situation.

[Pontius Navigator]

B*ll*cks. PVR Rates are RATES and are not based on total numbers.

A rate of 5% means 5 out of 100, 50 out of 1000 and 2000 out of 40000.

A reason why rates might go down is the wait and see for the redundancy package. Better to be paid to go.

It would be interesting to compare PVR rates of this in the bracket with those not in the bracket. Of course that might provide some uncomfortable facts so better to fudge the statistics.

Needs someone to put in an FOI request.

[L J R]

....and 5% of 0 is ZERO. Therefore when no one is left the rate of PVR will remain a predictable stablity.

[Tigs2]

climbear
the amendmants you show may be correct but they can only be implemented if EVERYONE has signed a new contract of employment after every ammendment, how many people have done that??? Military employment rule is complete arse, challenge it and you are gauranteed to win.

[MrBernoulli]

I have no statistics to base this on, but the fleet on which I did my last 7 years in the RAF is now haemorrhaging (and this is NOT an exaggeration) pilots through a combination of PVR and non-assimilation (i.e. folk leaving at the end of their SSC or PC). I think in the latter case that the vast majority don't want to extend service anyway. Airlines are recruiting steadily and jobs are comfortably available.

Just before I left I was amazed at the first tourists doing their ATPLs - amazing! Getting their parachutes ready so they could eject when fed up with proceedings. Can't blame them.

[southside]

So that beggars the question ...Why?

Why is your fleet haemorrhaging pilots ? What has changed over the past 7 years to produce this? Has the work load increased? Has the pay been reduced? Are the conditions any different? And why is it that some fleets are haemorrhaging and others are not?

[MrBernoulli]

Why?

Because there is little fun to be had any more. Perks eroded to uselessness. Asked to constantly do more with less. Tired of being pushed form pillar to post by meddling interfering half-wits who have never been anywhere near the frontline. Always travelling to and from desert ****-holes where there is little reason to be other than for George and Tony's half-arsed cock-and bull show. Not being valued for what we do or how well we do it (senior ivory-tower dwellers annual platitudes in the RAF News aren't worth the paper they are written on). Etc, etc, etc, et-bloody-cetera.

Loyalty is a one way bloody street in the RAF. Always 'Jam tomorrow, boys' but 'today you'll do as you're told, as often as you're told, until you're told otherwise'.

You getting the picture now? Which planet are you living on, anyway?

[southside]

The planet Royal Navy where there is still plenty of fun to be had. The only sand we see are the beaches in Bermuda and where we are truly valued for our commitments and consequently enjoy the perks of our trade.

[Safety_Helmut]

Did you get bullied at school southside ?

S_H

[The Gorilla]

Tigs 2

Whilst I agree with your sentiment concerning military employment law I have to disagree with you on the point of challenging it. I know some quite high profile cases concerning PVR, that have lost in court. The RN CPO who was trained in air con and refridgeration springs to mind.

At no time are you ever playing on a level field if you challenge the MOD. And for those of you who think you have some sort of "contract" it's time to wake up and smell the coffee folks. You have no contract and no rights!!

That's just the way it is..

Southside I tire of your banality now.Go away like a good little boy ok!!

:ok:

[Climebear]

Tigs 2

Remember that the Armed Forces are exempt from large areas of UK and European Employment Law (yes the European placed exemptions for their(at the time legislation was being draft - conscript) armed forces too. The amendments are legal because they are Statutory Instruments - as are such items as the Working Time Regulations that apply to a wide range of the population. When the legislature changes things it doesn't need everyone else to agree. The legislature has given the Defence Council the authority to amend through Statutory Instruments - that have to be laid before parliament before they are enacted.

As for challenging, what are your options? Well not Employment Tribunals, Parliament has only given limited scope to hear cases from the Armed Forces (race discrimination, sexual discrimination and equal pay). That leaves the only course of challenge as a Judicial Revue (very expensive and you cannot get legal aid).

challenge it and you are guaranteed to win

The Gorilla is correct there. More have challenged and failed than have challenged and won. For some strange reason lawyers (including Mr Blades) tend to make a great deal of publicizing cases they win but are very quiet about the ones they lose.

One final thing, this is posted to illustrate the current position. Not to illustrate a personal opinion.

[southside]

an airmen has the right to give 18-months notice to leave the Service enshrined in statute


I thought it was now 12 Months notice to leave.

[Safety_Helmut]

There you go again southside, spouting and trolling again.

It is 18 months !

S_H

[forwardassist]

southside
Perhaps you should look to the almost empty squadron buildings either side of 702 and the pans that are usually filled with green helos and consider all those who are actually away at the pointy end before you bang on about how great your life back at Yeovs is.
Idiot. :mad:

[cornishpixie]

I thought it was now 12 Months notice to leave.
You know what thought did Southside. You are obviously developing into one of those buffoons who sit at Whitehall and claim to be in touch, claiming all the campaign medals because you might have signed a piece of paper authorising bogroll from Bermuda. The AFPRB did state that recruitment was down and PVR rates are up. As I understand it one can only NGR after your 22 yr point, however I am not completely sure on that, and would be quite happy to be corrected. As for the fishheads, my brother who is a "greeny WO" says morale is the lowest he has seen it in 23 years. I guess Southside the only sand you really see is the sand you seem to be burying your head in.:mad:

[Pass-A-Frozo]

It should be noted that eg/ the american and aussie welfare policies compared to ours is simply embarassing!!!

Yes, it was never wise to walk up to a pommie and start sprouting on about how wonderful our allowances are :E

oh... and give us our ashes back. :p

[Climebear]

I can't find any statutory change reducing the time for RAF Notice as a General Right (NGR); the only 12-month wait are for some PVR waiting times.

Could be correct for the RN - like my original post said, I couln't find and RN ToSRs (insert your own line here ......).

Of course in the brave new world of JPA any single-Service variations should be standardised. Wait out.

cornishpixie, no airmen (and no doubt soldiers and marines) can exercise the right at any time after the initial qaulifying service (3 years if my memory serves me correctly). That is the main reason why there is a requirement for an airmen to waive his/her right in writing is they attend a training course that attracts a Training Return of Service.

[Safety_Helmut]

I'm not sure you've got that right there Climebear, I don't think an airman is forced to waive any right to NGR. There are laid down requirements for amortizing training, but these would be nowhere near the 18 month period of notice.

jungly, the point the resident troll made was regarding an earlier post in reference to the RAF.

S_H

[grimfixer]

Southside,
If you have to continue to express your worthless whining, your "facts" and "opinions" gathered in a straw poll in the end trap of the fwd heads demonstrate your vast knowledge of the FAA. I am looking forward to seeing the boys tomorrow, somewhere on the way to the moon according to your good self. I don't know about that but the phrase "Mork calling Orsen" springs to mind loserboy. :*

For the rest of those with some grasp on reality, the grey fleet so underwhelmingly represented by our favourite troll is in a similar state to many. Not helped now by the upsurge in the comair recruiting.

Now when was my car tax due.............

[Days Like These]

Does anyone know how transfers between services work? Do you have to PVR or is there a shortcut? If the former would they insist on 18 months? :confused:

[The Gorilla]

PVR is a privilege that can be refused at any time. NGR is a statutory right to discharge after giving 18 months notice which I understood was available to all those who have completed 12 years service. Of course things may have changed in the two years since I gained my freedom.

If you do a training course it is your right to NGR that you sign away in order to amortise your training costs. I was told that that the NGR notice period can be altered to suit either party if both consent though I have never seen that in practice. I had to sign a waiver to give three years full service after I did an E3D OCU.

Once upon a time in the bad old days I worked with people who applied to PVR and were turned down time after time. AIUI these days a PVR is rarely refused but the waiting times for release are adhered to within reason.

As for transfers I did come across two ex RN Observers (Seaking chaps I think) who came over to be ALM’s. They had to work their full notice from the RN and then join the RAF. I saw them at Binsworth where they were trying to get the terms of service that they had been promised. As usual they didn’t have any such promises in writing and all that they had been told turned out to be lies. Particularly rates of pay and credit of seniority, they were not happy bunnies!! This was about three years or so ago.

:hmm:

[southside]

In normal cases Officers are required to serve a waiting period of 12 months from the date of their application (with the exception of Medical and dental (not sure how the scab lifters managed to negotiate a shorter sentance)).

Officers may apply to leave at less than the normal period but that will be determined by the service requirement and the need to avoid undue turbulence.


So, why do the Army and RAF STILL have to submit 18 months notice when the RN only need to serve 12 months?

[Climebear]

Southside

It would appear that you have confused too issues here. If you are talking about officers leaving then this is by PVR (not by NGR) where the Services can set the waiting times to suite the manning situation at the time. The same applies to the RAF where several cadres (including airmen) have a waiting time of 12 months and many have shorter waiting times. As the Gorilla states this is something offered by the Services - it is not a right.

Details on NGR arein AP3392 Vol2 Leaflet 708 GENERAL RIGHT TO GIVE NOTICE
1. This leaflet gives guidance on the submission of applications to the RAF PMA for termination of regular RAF service on giving 18 months notice; see QRs 584(3) and (4).

2. All Engagements. Personnel serving on any type of engagement have the right, on completion of 9 years reckonable service, or at any time thereafter, to give 18 months notice to terminate their regular RAF service. The earliest time at which this right can be effected by giving notice at the 9 year point is therefore, on completion of 10½ years reckonable service. Previous regular whole time service which is reckonable in accordance with QR 3017 will qualify for inclusion when reckoning the length of service necessary to determine eligibility to give notice. Previous service will not however, release personnel from any reserve liability if the engagement on which they are currently serving includes a period in the reserve.

3. Notice Engagements. Personnel serving on Notice Engagements have the right, exercisable at the end of 18 months formal notice, to be transferred to the RAF Reserve of Airmen on completion of 3 years service from the end of basic trade training, or at any time thereafter, and to be given a free discharge at the end of 6 years service in the Reserve.

Note: Personnel who enlisted into the Royal Air Force on a Notice Engagement and who subsequently extend their service retain the right to give notice even though their terms of service change as a result of accepting an offer of further service.


Technically, the Trg RoS is not to amortize the costs of training. Amortization means to pay back the monetary value of the course; however, it is near impossible to ascertain the exact cost of an individuals aprticipation on an MOD course (there are differing views on where the boundaries of the costs should be drawn). Trg RoS is set at a level that takes into accounrt of both the invsestment placed in an individual (not just in monetary value) and the value of that trained individual to the system. This is why, for insitance, the Army graduates of Islander training have a longer Trg ROS - the comprise such a small cadre of individuals that the Army percieved that that trg justified a longer ROS.

[Safety_Helmut]

Gorilla, airmen do not sign away their right to NGR.

S_H

[Climebear]

SH

Correct an airman is invited to waive their ability to exercise their right to NGR during the period of Trg ROS.

[The Gorilla]

A play on words, because once you sign the waiver you can put an NGR in if you like but it will not be granted because hey you signed the waiver!!

:D

[L1A2 discharged]

But how many have been taken off a course for refusing to sign the waiver??

Not many.

[The Gorilla]

My experience was no sign waiver = no course!

[baggie670]

I'm not sure you've got that right there Climebear, I don't think an airman is forced to waive any right to NGR. There are laid down requirements for amortizing training, but these would be nowhere near the 18 month period of notice.

jungly, the point the resident troll made was regarding an earlier post in reference to the RAF.

S_H

6 years mate, that's how long MY amortization of training costs period last. I can't NGR or PVR in that period. And I AM an airman. All be it a well paid one.

Morale in the RAF is the lowest i have seen in my 15 years in various trades, trying to find the 'Sense of Worth' the recruiters sold me.

My friends and colleagues are ALL depressed with the job and constant degredation of quality of life. Our families suffer terribly. WHY SHOULD THEY?

Pay stability was the only factor in keeping these high quality individuals in the job. Now JPA screws that up too. Our service people of ALL branches deserve more for the ultimate commitment paid by many far too frequently. READ THE NEWS SOUTHSIDE. People DIE in this job. It isn't about sand, sea and fun days out. It's about respect.

My respect to all you hard working service personnel everywhere. It's an honour to serve with you. Can't wait for it to end though, my family have had their fill.

[rafloo]

Our families suffer terribly


Good god man...Have you informed the press....quick...ring The Sun...I cannot believe that in this day and age the families of servicemen are suffering at the hands of the Government. I find it absolutely disgusting that service families are being denied the very basis of human rights.....

why next minute you will be reporting that they have taken away the cheap Housing, Free 20 minute telephone call per week (subject to limitations of connectivity and EMCON/OPSEC). Calls unable to be made one week can be carried forward to the next. Free e-mail access (subject to limitations of connectivity and EMCON/OPSEC). Free Forces Aerogrammes (blueys) both ways and concessionary parcel rates. Free newspapers and magazines. Free books. Free laundering of uniform clothing. Access to fitness equipment.


Are they also taking away HIVE...?What about the wives clubs? The free coffee mornings, free swimming, free fitness sessions? is that all going?

How about the access to welfare..? are they taking away the free advice on Relationship problems. Bereavement. Debt Advice.
Child Care concerns. Mental Health.Special Needs. NOK Support for Deployed Personnel.Physical illness. Pregnancy complications.


Threy are complete and utter buggers eh? I think its outrageous that the Government should be withdrawing the fully equipped gymnasium & fitness suite complex, an indoor swimming pool, football pitches and tennis courts. Library, Internet computer suite, Barber, NAAFI/Spar shop, Post Office, Tailoress, Chaplaincy, and Motor Centre.


Next you'll be telling me that they are taking away the travel warrants....

[mutleyfour]

With all of this doom and gloom in the Air Force its a wonder anything gets off the ground?

Fly Army

[glum]

It isn't all doom and gloom. There are still lots of perks, but only for those bothered to take advantage, who also have a job and a sympathetic boss which allows it.

The biggest perks, which for me was overseas postings have gone, to be replaced by constant detatchments to the same places for reasons most of us don't seem to agree with.

I'm sure if we were involved in a 'just' conflict, we'd be feeling better about what we do. But when the general media and public opinion is that we're in the wrong place and achieving nothing it's hard to be proud of what you do.

We had pride in recovering the Falklands - our lands had been invaded. We were proud of intervening in the butchering that was the Balcans. But the Iraq conflict seems to be lurching further and further out of our grasp, and those at the top seem unable to come up with a vision and fix to resolve the problem.

I'm still enjoying what I do, and taking advantage of the remaining perks available where and when I can.

However, I'm not really proud of what we're doing right now - the big picture - or the image we portray to our 'customers' - the little picture - when our frames are underfunded, under protected, and often late or cancelled.(I'm a transport fleet techie).

Bring back the pride, and the morale will follow I think.

[R 21]

I lot of my work chums would love to PVR but the almighty JPA says.........

'the computer says No'!!:\

'Fly friendly'

[L1A2 discharged]

There is still a manual option to PVR, until the computer is 'enabled', forms 'should' be available from the admin t****rs. Make sure you raise at least 2 copies and get them date stamped in PSF / HR / handbrake house when you put them in, keep a copy for yourself. You are invited to write the reasons why you are going, Tolstoys books look short in comparison to some submissions :) .

Minimum times apply for certain trades / occupations, spookily though there isn't a maximum time, although in excess of 2 years would probably be looked at with a jaundiced eye.

18 months notice as a right kicks in after a while - don't know the limit, however you can submit NGR at 10.5 years to leave at 12.

[wingnut135]

I had to laugh today. I had heard that one of our PA-type navs had PVR'ed and put JPA as the reason. Today I heard that he'd gone to his flight commander to have a chat, was expressing his dissatisfaction with not being paid or something silly, whereupon he was told that if he didn't like it he could leave...so he is...! Of course, it's all rumor mill, but it is amusing. Many folks don't have the same option, though, and will continue to serve despite diminishing returns (and perhaps respect...).