Philippine ATO memorandum circular 01-06

[e6b]

I posted this on a different thread earlier,
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=210921
wanna know what you guys think of this B.S.

The Philippine ATO just issued a memo circular for all 135 and 121 certificate holders:
"In the Interest of Safety and National Security, effective immediately, all flight deck crew, particularly pilots and aircraft mechanics are hereby directed to seek clearance from their employers as an additional requirement for the renewal of their licences.
In this connection, all 121 and 135 operators are hereby directed to issue clearance to effect the renewal of your employees' license. Non-issuance of clearance means non-issue of their licennse.
For Strict compliance.
Nilo Jatico / Assitant Secretary"
smells like lucio tan

[DeltaSix]

If he is losing pilots in droves, then it does sound like Lucio Tan behind it.

What I think of it ?... B.S. Looks like the ATO and the airlines are ganging up on you or to stop the outflow of pilots from the Philippines and a shameful revenue raising exercise at the same time.

If you guys have a strong union down there, I'd take them to court and oppose the bill. They are making your employers the decision makers if you will have a license the next day. As Tom Selleck says " what a lot of croc !!! "
Isn't there a law against this somewhere ?

Not until they raise the pay and improve the conditions, they will continue to lose pilots.

D6

[bisaya]

its BS indeed.. that is why the philippines is really going to hell... A.T.O.... Another Tan Office?

[e6b]

It actually is a "Human Rights" issue. With so many Filipino OFWs working abroad such as nurses, doctors, and domestic helpers, etc.: who continuously contribute to the Philippine economy through monetary remitances; why single out pilots and aircraft mechanics?

Is it indeed "In the Interest of Safety and National Security...blah blah blah" or the personal interest of a select few?

[bisaya]

that is why it is plain BS... i have been in philippine aviation for 16yrs already, NJ could probably be the poorest performing ASSEC in the history of Philippine Aviation... god help us all...

[DeltaSix]

I think I have said this before to you E6B, it is an idiotic idea on the part of the ATO and whoever they are coniving with. Also, renewing your ATPL is a personal matter, all they should care about is whether you have renewed it or not, full stop. Don't even start to think "why" they are doing this to pilots as the only answer you will get are lies to serve their interest especially if businessmen and politicians are involved.
They think all of you are so gullible to fall for this crap and won't be able to do or say anything about it. Unfortunately, that might be exactly how the cookie crumbles in this country.
I'd seriously think about getting the US FAA ATP and get the hell out of there faster than you can say "go".

"In the Interest of National Safety and Security" they say? .... now let's see... how will charging you every 6 months to renew your license or having a clearance from your "employer" in the interest of national security ?
Now, who's the terrorists here ? you or them ? This whole fiasco has more holes than a colander. I can only shake my head.

Bisaya - all the best, good luck mate. Give me a ring next time you're in Sydney.

DeltaSix

[e6b]

that is why it is plain BS... i have been in philippine aviation for 16yrs already, NJ could probably be the poorest performing ASSEC in the history of Philippine Aviation... god help us all...
All NJ cares about is his "hati ko?" :mad:

[Cessna1052]

This ATO circular is an added security for those who newly joined the airline, adding up to the lengthy 5 year service. No complains for the new joiners, i bet..., but for the rest of them, its a chain wrapped around their necks worn comparable to prisoners or criminals during medieval times. What a clever, evil idea.!...National interest?!. No no no ! Company interest, YES YES YES !!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[batuta23]

hoping for a change but i dont think its gona be with PhilAirlines:{ so if anybody can help me out:i am a B747-400 f/o.

[Cessna1052]

hoping for a change but i dont think its gona be with PhilAirlines:{ so if anybody can help me out:i am a B747-400 f/o.


There is hope, but I guessed you havent tried....ask those who went out already, madami nang nasa Sincargo or you can try applying with Emirates, they're hiring Boeing rated pilots for their 777 fleet, there's one who came from your Division, di ba? We can only suggest and give opinions, but decisions are purely personal, think about it. Goodluck:D

[The_Saint]

What are you guys waiting for?
All it needs is to fill up an application form online and send it to the airline you want to work for. It's as simple as that.
If you dont get accepted in that airline, send to another one. There are jobs out there now.:ok:
You will not need your Phil licence when you are accepted. You just need to keep it current for the time you apply and start to convert to the country's licence. So after start applying. PAL will give you its clearance. The only time you wont get a clearance is when you submit your resignation.
So be sure to resign after your renewal.;) We all did it that way. Even before the circular. It is rubbish. Just a way to scare you.:*
dont let it stop you.
Good Luck Pre!!

[Start4&3]

hoping for a change but i dont think its gona be with PhilAirlines:{ so if anybody can help me out:i am a B747-400 f/o.

Do what your brothers are doing, GO TO EVA!

[Cessna1052]

Eva Air is one good choice, malapit lang. But I suggest, try contacting somebody from the inside to follow thru your application, especially if you're a striker who then went back-in. Nothing against the fellows in EVA, as a matter of fact I was given a go signal( by the group inside EVA) to apply and try, but fortunately i made into another Airline more Competitive and appealing. Air Hongkong and Sincargo are nice options, there's also Great wall china Cargo( newcomer, but its actually a subsidiary of SINCARGO). Goodluck:ok:

[Start4&3]

Nothing against the fellows in EVA, as a matter of fact I was given a go signal( by the group inside EVA) to apply and try, but fortunately i made into another Airline more Competitive and appealing. Goodluck:ok:

I don't think you need a go signal from your group to apply. They're not the one doing the hiring. Don't let anybody make a decision for you, but then again it could be a cultural thing.

[e6b]

I don't think you need a go signal from your group to apply. They're not the one doing the hiring. Don't let anybody make a decision for you, but then again it could be a cultural thing.
If you don't get a "go" signal from the other filipino guys at eva, don't even bother...it's more than a "cultural thing".

[Cessna1052]

Tama si e6b, its more than a cultural thing. I was able to meet this Old fellows a year ago while attending a wedding of a Former Cebupac capt now with EVA

[Cessna1052]

http://www.philstar.com/philstar/NEWS200603020406.htm

This might interest you.....

[r2d2rebel]

The very reason why there is exodus of Philippine pilots is elementary! You dont have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. Mr. Zapanta, where are you now? - you said "its cheaper to train new pilots than give them the due benefits". Now its cheaper to pay a congressman than give pilots their due benefits, right?!!! Why stop a person uplift his quality of life? Because of national interest? Bullshi...! National interest my a..! Lucio Tan interest that is! I think UP PGH should go to congress as well, since they lost to the US 90% (or more) of the doctors & nurses they graduated since the 60's. The local hospitals should go to PRC (Professional Regulatory Comm.) & tell 'em to stop renewing PRC license of doctors & nurses who plan to go abroad. Mr. T., if you can give me half the benefits i am receiving now, I'll work back home my whole life.
On the other hand, if Mr. Tan can hire cheaper pilots from the provinces of China & pay 'em $1 a day - he'll bring 'em all to PAL.

[Cessna1052]

r2d2palrebel,
anyway this forum I would say is very helpful to inform our colleagues back home of all the essential information they would need to join into our present companies. i know a lot are interested, about many things such as, working conditions, cockpit environment(if flying as an FO), salaries, leaves, how often do we go home, do we get bored?, hows the place look like, the treatment against Asians, etc. other questions one might think of.
Lets invite other Reps from Asiana, Air Dec, AirLanka, and others so that they share their own experience as well, and I think the most important of all for our friends back home are the TIPS and REVIEWERS they will need to pass the interview. Okay Klasmeyt?!:ok:

[batuta23]

oh my Godzilla!:eek: you hit it right on the centerline!this is the kind of crab mentality we should be famous for!!!gone is the thinking of pulling your fellow crabs down to suffer the same fates.your kind of hatakan will be good for those who wanna leave and those who are unable to(ie.age,physical probs).the ones left behind can at least attain better job benefits in the future - hopefully near.yes,please paint us a picture of how it is working abroad.



r2d2palrebel,
anyway this forum I would say is very helpful to inform our colleagues back home of all the essential information they would need to join into our present companies. i know a lot are interested, about many things such as, working conditions, cockpit environment(if flying as an FO), salaries, leaves, how often do we go home, do we get bored?, hows the place look like, the treatment against Asians, etc. other questions one might think of.
Lets invite other Reps from Asiana, Air Dec, AirLanka, and others so that they share their own experience as well, and I think the most important of all for our friends back home are the TIPS and REVIEWERS they will need to pass the interview. Okay Klasmeyt?!:ok:

[e6b]

To add insult to injury, some lame brain, fat ass congressman wants to pass a bill on prohibiting filipino pilots from working abroad for the next 3-5 years!!!
Again, "in the pursuit of national interest".
I wanna "pursuit" him with a very big gun!!!

[DeltaSix]

some lame brain, fat ass congressman wants to pass a bill on prohibiting filipino pilots from working abroad for the next 3-5 years!!!


What the hell is going on ?........ can they actually do this ? A Fil pilot wants to leave for greener pastures ( better pay and conditions ) for the sake of his family and future and they try and stop them ? No wonder our country is going backwards. These idiots in parliament are making decisions to curtail the rights of our people. Who voted for these people in ?

Brothers, if you don't bond together and fight together, you will be slaves.
Get your act together. Your rights are slowly being eroded by the powers to be.
Take precautions now while you still have some rights left. Where I am now, we don't renew our license like you do with the ATPL ( except for medical and IR of course). Take them to court, form a union, or whatever. Just don't give them the upper hand. Future generations of pilots will suffer if we let them win today. There is no reason why they can't force the airline to pay a "reasonable" pay and provide a "better" working conditions so their most important resource will not be lost. I feel sorry for the ones who are stuck with them. People - THIS IS WAR.

When will we learn that the crab mentality or the " Tall poppy syndrome" will only damage the Philippines ?

D6

[flyboy72]

Gentlemen...I would have to agree with you guys about that ATO Circular 01-06. It is your license...you've earned it...and a "clearance" from the employer is uncalled for. And as far as that "fat-ass congressman" is concerned, he is probably one of the worst educated lawmaker in the country. What makes him think that that bill that he wants to pass is going to push through? It inhibits freedom to the Filipinos. And as far as being overseas foreign workers are concerned, they are heros in that country...don't really think that bill will push through so all you PAL, Cebupac, and Airphil drivers need not worry. And as far as the circular is concerned, the ATO will probably change that seeing that it doesn't make much sense.

But for those who have something against Gen. Jatico, chances are you don't know the person that well. If you will do some research, you will find out that he is clean and uncorrupt, unlike the previous ASSECs. No one can bribe him, and in the interest of safety, he will not accept any favors from the "airlines". He is definitely not a liked person among his ATO companions...why?...well he has clipped their wings as far as "making money" within the ATO is concerned...but I am sure they still get away with some red-tape and corruption somehow, but not as much as before...that's why they don't like him. But that's my opinion...you can always go to his house in Fort Bonifacio and see for yourself that NJ is not your normal, lavish living military General.

[Cessna1052]

My Friends, read this...someones trying to be a Patriotic Idiot. This Guy has no balls to help his own people and yet throwing such statements, very Famous itong Pilotong ito sa phrase na " I will not rock the Boat ", imagine P600 thou per month .The statements down below is from a former PAL Captain, he is just telling the truth.


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isnt this the ashole who said he wanted to see cadavers come out of the alpap building? surely this guy is motivated by negative emotions like hatered and envy. im sure he feels like the stupid eager beaver scientist whose experiment blew up in his face and is blaming everybody else for the accident.
he is the same asshole who, before he manueverd himself as management, would bad mouth management pilots, lambasting them for not recognizing where they come from. and boy did he gave and still do, have a big mouth.

this asshole is at the last, patriotic.his panic to cover his tracks is getting the better of him. so what was his arguement? stop pilots from leaving or to tax them? it doesnt take much to be a boss if you are an asshole.




From: Melvin B Punzalan <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [alpap] From a high ranking PAL flt ops official
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:34:49 +0800
>Guys, ano ba talaga ng tingin sa Pinoy pilots ng taong ito....He
>sent this to a DOTC official. He even wants us to pay taxes on our
>earnings abroad...Inggit lang kaya?
>
>
>
>This is just my reaction to the article on The proposed 5 year ban
>on aviation technical
> personnel in the airline industry. First of all it has to made
>clear what we are preventing
>and why.
>
>Pilots and mechanics world wide move around to the highest bidder
>who need
>their services.We are now faced with the reality, that around Asia
>the expansion has
>been phenomenal and some airlines are ordering airplanes at a faster
>rate than having
>personnel available to maintain and fly them.
>
>So why the filipinos, are they anything more special than any other
>race? Of course not,
>but one fact is very obvious, they are the easiest to hire.
>Comparing salary ranges in the
>Philippines against what they supposedly offer, nothing to
>compare.There communication
>skills in english are far better than any asian counterpart.The
>proficiency of the filipino pilots
>can be at par or better than our asian counterparts.
>
>So why easier to hire, they dont require much concesstions as to
>working conditions,
>where they will be based etc..as the American or European will ask
>for so much more on
>top of their salary that the airline hiring gets turned off by all
>the freebees they throw into
>the contract. Filipinos get tax free previledge in the country they
>work for and even their own
>country.
>
>Imagine an airline pilot being offered USD$10,000, doesn't pay
>anything to the Philippine govt..
>They consider themselves OFWs, no travel tax, airport tax etc..I
>thought that was for domestic
>helpers, jappayukis, carpenters, etc.
>
>Our tecnical people here pay max. with holding tax of 35% outright
>to the govt..Is that
>fair to our govt..? High paying jobs abroad dont pay a cent to our
>govt. while people who
>stay are withheld so much which delutes their take home
>considerably.
>
>Americans and Europeans no matter where they work have to pay their
>respective govt..taxes
>based on their income abroad..Our lawmakers should look into this
>disparity on taxes our technical
>people pay, staying home against working abroad.
>
>Dont ! mind laborers, entertainers, domestic helpers, caregivers
>etc..they don't earn much..If we
>dont do anything about pilots and mechanics we will come to the
>point that the pilots that stay
>will all be low experience no qualification whatsoever to be hired
>abroad, safety of our flights
>will be jeopardized.
>
>We might come to a point the airline industry will not be viable
>business so it will die a
>natural death..With 7,000 islands we might resort to taking the
>super ferry to the provinces..
>I respect the freedom to move and look for the proverbial greener
>pastures, but with that
>comes the obligation of the state to protect its national interest,
>security and safety of
>operations to a very critical industry, AVIATION. This is serious
>and we appeal to the patriotic
>and freedom loving filipinos, we also have to save our country its
>the only one we got.
>
>Julie Hernandez
>
>

[tsuper]

Capt. :mad: "Do Not Rock The Boat" earns 900,000 a month. I guess his actions in Philippine Airlines are all "in aid of job security." His "solutions" to the PAL exodus is planned for the short term (up to his retirement date only, 2008 or 2009 yata!). After that date, bahala na kayo!!! Do the math, 1.5 months pay per year of service multiplied by more than 30 years on top of the 25% of monthly pay promised per month of service. These guys will definitely go into survival mode :mad: :mad: and tell you "DO NOT ROCK THE BOAT."

[DeltaSix]

He said

"Pilots and mechanics world wide move around to the highest bidder
who need their services"

----- Damn right !! Isn't everyone else ?

"Comparing salary ranges in the Philippines against what they supposedly offer, nothing to compare.There communication skills in english are far better than any asian counterpart.The proficiency of the filipino pilots can be at par or better than our asian counterparts "

--- tell us something that we don't already know.

"So why easier to hire, they dont require much concesstions as to
working conditions "

----- Yep, and this is their bargaining power. They only ask what is fair in wages and still the people in power in the Philippines won't even give them this.

"Imagine an airline pilot being offered USD$10,000, doesn't pay
anything to the Philippine govt."

---- Keep imagining, This guy needs a reality check. Does he realize that from this pay, tax is also taken out at the same time by the foreign government ?

"Our lawmakers should look into this disparity on taxes our technical people pay, staying home against working abroad"

----- This will force most Filipino pilots abroad to take up citizenship elsewhere.

"If we dont do anything about pilots and mechanics we will come to the
point that the pilots that stay will all be low experience no qualification whatsoever to be hired abroad, safety of our flights will be jeopardized"

------ That's the airline's problem, but I'll give him a hint --- PAY THEM PROPERLY AND TREAT THEM WITH DIGNITY AND MAYBE THEY WILL STAY.
If the passengers has lost confidence in the airline then they can always go for another carrier.

"We might come to a point the airline industry will not be viable business so it will die a natural death..With 7,000 islands we might resort to taking the
super ferry to the provinces "

------ Then maybe they will cut the wages of the ferry drivers too.

"I respect the freedom to move and look for the proverbial greener pastures, but with that comes the obligation of the state to protect its national interest, security and safety of operations to a very critical industry, AVIATION "

------ Who's interest is he protecting ? Tell that to the families of the pilots who won't be able to feed them if they fail their medical and have no savings to fall back on due to his National interest.

What a loser.

D6

[e6b]

But for those who have something against Gen. Jatico, chances are you don't know the person that well. If you will do some research, you will find out that he is clean and uncorrupt, unlike the previous ASSECs. No one can bribe him, and in the interest of safety, he will not accept any favors from the "airlines". He is definitely not a liked person among his ATO companions...why?...well he has clipped their wings as far as "making money" within the ATO is concerned...but I am sure they still get away with some red-tape and corruption somehow, but not as much as before...that's why they don't like him. But that's my opinion...you can always go to his house in Fort Bonifacio and see for yourself that NJ is not your normal, lavish living military General.
Giving NJ the benefit of the doubt; WHY then did he sign ATO Circular 01-06?

[Cessna1052]

Giving NJ the benefit of the doubt; WHY then did he sign ATO Circular 01-06?

I second demotion. e6, yours is a very correct question....

[flyboy72]

I second demotion. e6, yours is a very correct question....

You know what e6b and cessna1052, I am actually in the dark as to why it was signed...it is out of character of NJ to issue such a circular.

I actually heard this circular through this forum only.

[Cessna1052]

The best bet I have in mind is that there is somebody on a very powerful position than NJ who probably told him to Sign without asking.
Is that fair enough for NJ flyboy72? I cannot think of any other way than maybe somebody else did it for him, and if you happen to be very close to the Guy can you please ask him to reconsider it, and maybe do some help to this pilots who are all just dreaming for a better future for their Families.

[flyboy72]

The best bet I have in mind is that there is somebody on a very powerful position than NJ who probably told him to Sign without asking.
Is that fair enough for NJ flyboy72? I cannot think of any other way than maybe somebody else did it for him, and if you happen to be very close to the Guy can you please ask him to reconsider it, and maybe do some help to this pilots who are all just dreaming for a better future for their Families.

That's fair enough...but don't worry, I agree with your sentiments 100%. And you are on the dot cessna1052, as far as me being close to NJ...but that will not clout or overshadow what I think what's right or wrong.

Rest assured that I shall request for a reconsideration. God Speed.

[411A]

I may be quite mis-informed, but from what I've heard, any Fil pilot who wants to work outside the country has to get POEA approval first, just like nearly everyone else there.
So, apart from the Civil Aviation folks, they are truly on the hook by the short and curlies, and in the end, not much they can actually do about it.

You can only expect far worse in the future, no doubt about it.

[DeltaSix]

You can only expect far worse in the future, no doubt about it.

This is the reason why a lot of my friends here are not going back to work for them.

Can someone give me NJ's mailing address and I will write to him to stress out " Why the workers are leaving the country " and ask him to re-consider.


D6

[e6b]

The best bet I have in mind is that there is somebody on a very powerful position than NJ who probably told him to Sign without asking.
Is that fair enough for NJ flyboy72? I cannot think of any other way than maybe somebody else did it for him, and if you happen to be very close to the Guy can you please ask him to reconsider it, and maybe do some help to this pilots who are all just dreaming for a better future for their Families.
I saw nj's signature on the copy furnished to CebuPac. He signed it himself, no proxy.

[Navitimer]

Uhm, Cessna? I think the correct term would be " I second the motion" not "second demotion". But you're ok man, good luck and have a safe flight!

[Cessna1052]

I saw nj's signature on the copy furnished to CebuPac. He signed it himself, no proxy.

Somebody from PAL said that Mr Jimmy Bautista went to ATO twice, according to the Mole the first attempt was futile as NJ turned down the request because accdg to NJ its the airlines business to take care of its pilots welfare and not ATO. But, you already know what happened on the 2nd visit, the signing. This powerful people on the airline business owns almost half of the most corrupt people in the govt, not NJ perhaps thats accdg to Flyboy72. So, there it is NJ possibly can't do anything but to sign it.

[Cessna1052]

Uhm, Cessna? I think the correct term would be " I second the motion" not "second demotion". But you're ok man, good luck and have a safe flight!

He he i am so sorry, not being careful sa ispelling.....este spelling. Thanks:ok:

[kontra]

hello fellow pinoy piltos. longtime browser, first time poster.

i would like to comment that i believe NJ is an honest man, somebody higher than him must have shoved this issue up his nose to make him sign it. LT is known to get his ways in whatever way he can. he can manipulate any politician, he has the means to do it.

as for mr. rock the boat, he has the guts to write a letter like that. it only shows that he dont want us to experience a better life. that only him and kalbong johnny have the right to enjoy life. have you noticed that kalbo has a new address since he became the vp? he now lives in ayala alabang, while he used to live in moonwalk or sunvalle before getting that position. it shows how much money he is recieving at our expense. i am wishing that these two guys get retired without receiving any from PAL. they should be charged with "failure on the job" and get sacked.

[Cessna1052]

hello fellow pinoy piltos. longtime browser, first time poster.

i would like to comment that i believe NJ is an honest man, somebody higher than him must have shoved this issue up his nose to make him sign it. LT is known to get his ways in whatever way he can. he can manipulate any politician, he has the means to do it.

as for mr. rock the boat, he has the guts to write a letter like that. it only shows that he dont want us to experience a better life. that only him and kalbong johnny have the right to enjoy life. have you noticed that kalbo has a new address since he became the vp? he now lives in ayala alabang, while he used to live in moonwalk or sunvalle before getting that position. it shows how much money he is recieving at our expense. i am wishing that these two guys get retired without receiving any from PAL. they should be charged with "failure on the job" and get sacked.

Thats the best thing they can do,:* Sacked them!

[flyboy72]

Ok so here is the jist of it:

After a little bit of inquiry...the ATO Circular 01-06 is how you make of it and this is what I maybe naively concluding. It may work to the advantage of LT and Philippine Airlines but the circular is directed to ALL airmen. Which means all airmen are required to give/present a certification of flight time and a clearance from an employer or operator.

Admittedly, the additional requirement is a nuisance but nevertheless a requirement. The ATO does have some valid points: 1. In general, pilots (especially the General Aviation) were able to renew their licenses via certification of flight time which were at times fraudulently acquired (meaning they really never flew the time). There is a darkside in Philippine aviation. We are professional aviators, but of course, there are A LOT of us that are not. 2. If you can get a Cert of Flight time, you can get clearance from the owner or operator. The operator or owner is not going to issue a clearance if he/she knows that cert of flight time was acquired by fraud means. 3. It puts a period on the ATO stand regarding the exodus issue - it basically is not an issue as far as ATO is concerned. Company internal problems stays as is.

If it was signed to apeace LT, it was more to shut him up and his very stubborn President Jaime Bautista. But I doubt that it was signed because of the second visit of Jaime Bautista. NJ and PAL don't have a great relationship. And LT/PAL can complain to GMA regarding NJ, but NJ doesn't care...if he gets sacked, at least he gets sacked doing the right thing.

[5pfarms]

Thats the best thing they can do,:* Sacked them!
You guys are handling this thing all wrong. You dont seem to realize that it is not to your best interest to get irratated or make irritating statements regarding people you dislike.
I wonder if all this frothing-in-the-mouth is giving you additional income or incentive pay. You guys are after all enjoying the correct compensation for your labor. Why would you even bother to give people you resent the satisfaction by saying nasty thing about them. all that really does is make them connive and scheme finding ways and means to get to you or at least your colleages. Things have a way of righting themselves. You do not have to contribute. After all you will never know. your son may need a job or something like that. These things have a funny way of coming back at you so you are better off being civil. please ponder this and im sure you will agree with me.

[e6b]

...if he gets sacked, at least he gets sacked doing the right thing.
nj won't get sacked because he didn't do the right thing: which was not to sign circular 01-06 in the first place. And whoever told you that 01-06 was implemented to prevent irresponsible pilots from "padding" their flight time is feeding you a cart of carabao dung.
01-06 is a tool to be used by the airlines to prevent targeted pilots from renewing their licenses. If you can't renew, you won't be current. If you're not current, no chance for outside employment/license conversion.
Simple as that.

[e6b]

I wonder if all this frothing-in-the-mouth is giving you additional income or incentive pay. You guys are after all enjoying the correct compensation for your labor...These things have a funny way of coming back at you...
First of all, it's not about "additional income" or "incentve pay" but rather basic HUMAN RIGHTS. I reserve the right to plan the course of my life, my career. 01-06 is bordering on servitude. Also, the reason there is an exodus of local pilots is because they are not justly compensated.
But you're right, things do have a way of coming back; moreso to those who curtail basic human freedom.
And with all due respect, this is a PILOT'S FORUM where we discuss issues that have great impact on our proffesion. When there are issues, there are opinions. If you find a post offensive report it to the MODERATOR and he will delete it if necessary. Otherwise , if you cannot take the heat, then stay out of the kitchen. Good day.

[Cessna1052]

5pfarms,
the reason why one can't decide for himself nowadays is because we always look at our past. Everytime "utang na loob na lang", aren't there any more people in this world willing to help, or are you too afraid that you can't possibly make it by your own. I thanked them already, for the great help and history i will past to my children, the Great names whom have placed me on this, And that is enough. If they ban my name who cares? they banned plenty of names already and some of them are there right now working, they just come and go. Bless you, for you are rare person, a very contented one. I wish I was just like you.

[flyboy72]

nj won't get sacked because he didn't do the right thing: which was not to sign circular 01-06 in the first place. And whoever told you that 01-06 was implemented to prevent unresponsible pilots from "padding" their flight time is feeding you a cart of carabao dung.
01-06 is a tool to be used by the airlines to prevent targeted pilots from renewing their licenses. If you can't renew, you won't be current. If you're not current, no chance for outside employment/license conversion.
Simple as that.

I guess that's the way you look at or read into 01-06. What I am trying to say e6 is if you can get a cert of flt time, there is no reason why you can't get a "clearance"...unless of course you have a problem with management. e6, the ATO wants to make it clear that 01-06 does not prevent you from seeking employment in greener pastures...it is just an added requirement which they figure shouldn't be so hard to get.

You said "if you can't renew, you won't be current"...no kidding sherlock. You are only looking at one side of the coin, the side where "pilots in RP are the least paid in the industry, or it sucks to work in PAL, or the now gripe of we are being prevented from seeking greener pastures".

We know that PAL is the worst as far as salary is concerned, so why did some pilots go back to PAL after the ' 97 pilot strike...because it's practical...ok then they chose to go back in their own free will WITHOUT THE BENEFITS that they use to enjoy...a choice was made. Or why did new pilots join PAL...career advancement...again a choice was made. Why do PAL pilots leave...because of the salary (a fact they new from the start)...and again a choice was made.

Some pilots have left PAL because their new employer is willing to pay for their Contract with PAL...e6b, in your opinion do you think that is right? Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't there 12-16 A320 Captains that "packed up and left" for a Chinese employer because the employer was willing to buy-out the contract? I understand if they left one by one, but all together? So e6b, are these the oppressed pilots your talking about. LOOK AT IT ON THE OTHERSIDE!

Right now, PAL pilots are spending more time figuring out how to "scheme" out of PAL...so in any case, would you be surprised if management "schemes" to prevent one from leaving. Get a grip on reality E6B...PAL pilots are not exactly saints either.

I've actually spoken to a couple of Cebupac drivers and they've actually said "they joined Cebupac because the 320 is coming, and employment outside is abundant for 320"...so e6...was that quote in the interest of the company, or self interest.

If the pay in the Philippines is so little, then it is...nothing you can do to change that in the near future...but like they say "live within your means". Now if you can't because you live a life higher than the average Filipino (pilot salaries are way, way higher than the average Filipino by the way), maybe have "extra-curricular activities" then that's a different forum all together.

[e6b]

Flyboy, nothing personal but you seem to be changing your story all the time. In an earlier post you couldn't believe nj could have signed 01-06 and even considered talking to him about it. Then you say it's supposed to stop flt time "padding". Now you say 01-06 is ok since it shouldn't be hard getting clearance as long as you don't have problems with pal management. Make up your mind Holmes.
If there's one thing consistent, it's that pal pilots always want to leave. Why? The answer is obvious.
That's why I didn't go back during the '98 strike.

[kontra]

You guys are handling this thing all wrong. You dont seem to realize that it is not to your best interest to get irratated or make irritating statements regarding people you dislike.
I wonder if all this frothing-in-the-mouth is giving you additional income or incentive pay. You guys are after all enjoying the correct compensation for your labor. Why would you even bother to give people you resent the satisfaction by saying nasty thing about them. all that really does is make them connive and scheme finding ways and means to get to you or at least your colleages. Things have a way of righting themselves. You do not have to contribute. After all you will never know. your son may need a job or something like that. These things have a funny way of coming back at you so you are better off being civil. please ponder this and im sure you will agree with me.

I am not irritated, I am voicing my reasons/concerns why i left pal. I am not in anyway giving satisfaction to "them". And I am not the type who just sits around and watch how things go. That is why pal pilots are being abused. Majority just sit around and watch. And if they follow what you just said, then we really cannot expect any changes in management.

If you ask the pilots who left, most of them would say that it is not only the pay, it is the treatment, working conditions and the retirement package. Do you think that if we dont voice out, they will act on this issues? I not not sure if they will act on it positively, but at least they will be made aware. And the remaining pilots will be aware, so that they can also decide on their future.

You might say that how will they know if I am posting it here? To tell you frankly, there are other pilots who browse these forums just to fish out information and tell it to the management, mga sipsip ba.

I agree with your non-confrontational style, but it does not work for these kind of people. Believe me, I know. No harm intended to you, just expressing my feelings.

[planestupid]

Eb6, the reason flyboy72 is not consistant in his post is coz he is a management pilot from batch 72. No guesses who that is!!!!!
Who are you really flyboy? Looking out for your own interests or the interest your pilots that work for you and LT? People don't go on strike or leave for just money, the conditions are often more important. But you know that.. don't you? So why don't you listen to your guys or ask them what they need. You have already broken the union and now you are ready to break your pilots. Why?? Why don't you go to the table and work it out instead of "scheming" with all this crap with the ATO and bill in Congress?? I'm sure the PAL pilot wants to be proud of the uniform he wears, because he represents more than the being a pilot. He is the Captain of the Flag Carrier. But he well knows that the driver that picks him up from SFO or LAX earns as much as he. I'm sure that would make him think about jumping ship or looking for greener pastures.

Flyboy you are foolish to think you will get loyalty from guys when you insult them directly for saying, "ok then they chose to go back in their own free will WITHOUT THE BENEFITS that they use to enjoy...a choice was made." How dare you!! Pilots are just people.... they have to feed their families and not earning for so many weeks can make that decision more difficult. You are right.. people make choices and your guys are chosing to leave. So you can either shutup, put up with it or even better do something about it like paying them the right pay!!
For those guys that have taken a better path... That is great... All the best.

[Cessna1052]

Eb6, the reason flyboy72 is not consistant in his post is coz he is a management pilot from batch 72. No guesses who that is!!!!!
Who are you really flyboy? Looking out for your own interests or the interest your pilots that work for you and LT? People don't go on strike or leave for just money, the conditions are often more important. But you know that.. don't you? So why don't you listen to your guys or ask them what they need. You have already broken the union and now you are ready to break your pilots. Why?? Why don't you go to the table and work it out instead of "scheming" with all this crap with the ATO and bill in Congress?? I'm sure the PAL pilot wants to be proud of the uniform he wears, because he represents more than the being a pilot. He is the Captain of the Flag Carrier. But he well knows that the driver that picks him up from SFO or LAX earns as much as he. I'm sure that would make him think about jumping ship or looking for greener pastures.

Flyboy you are foolish to think you will get loyalty from guys when you insult them directly for saying, "ok then they chose to go back in their own free will WITHOUT THE BENEFITS that they use to enjoy...a choice was made." How dare you!! Pilots are just people.... they have to feed their families and not earning for so many weeks can make that decision more difficult. You are right.. people make choices and your guys are chosing to leave. So you can either shutup, put up with it or even better do something about it like paying them the right pay!!
For those guys that have taken a better path... That is great... All the best.


Nothing more to say, direct hit, Right at the center. Mabuhay ka Bro!:ok:

[Cessna1052]

I guess that's the way you look at or read into 01-06. What I am trying to say e6 is if you can get a cert of flt time, there is no reason why you can't get a "clearance"...unless of course you have a problem with management. e6, the ATO wants to make it clear that 01-06 does not prevent you from seeking employment in greener pastures...it is just an added requirement which they figure shouldn't be so hard to get.

You said "if you can't renew, you won't be current"...no kidding sherlock. You are only looking at one side of the coin, the side where "pilots in RP are the least paid in the industry, or it sucks to work in PAL, or the now gripe of we are being prevented from seeking greener pastures". - ISNT THIS TRUE?, GIVE US A BREAK FLYBOY.

We know that PAL is the worst as far as salary is concerned, so why did some pilots go back to PAL after the ' 97 pilot strike...because it's practical...ok then they chose to go back in their own free will WITHOUT THE BENEFITS that they use to enjoy...a choice was made. Or why did new pilots join PAL...career advancement...again a choice was made. Why do PAL pilots leave...because of the salary (a fact they new from the start)...and again a choice was made.- WASN'T THE STRIKE JUNE 98? WHERE WERE YOU THEN? MUST BE WORKING OUTSIDE PAL,HA?

Some pilots have left PAL because their new employer is willing to pay for their Contract with PAL...e6b, in your opinion do you think that is right? Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't there 12-16 A320 Captains that "packed up and left" for a Chinese employer because the employer was willing to buy-out the contract? I understand if they left one by one, but all together? So e6b, are these the oppressed pilots your talking about. LOOK AT IT ON THE OTHERSIDE!- UNFORTUNATELY, THERE'S NO OTHERSIDE, AND CAN YOU NAME ONE COMPANY WHO ACTUALLY PAID FOR THE PILOTS STANDING CONTRACT? WE NEED PROOF.

Right now, PAL pilots are spending more time figuring out how to "scheme" out of PAL...so in any case, would you be surprised if management "schemes" to prevent one from leaving. Get a grip on reality E6B...PAL pilots are not exactly saints either.- ITS NOT THE FAULT OF THE PILOTS, YOU NEED THEM & YOU HIRED THEM, THEY WORK NOT FOR THE COMPANY BUT FOR THEIR FAMILY, THE VERY SAME WAY YOU ARE DOING, IF ITS FOR THE COMPANY WHY NOT BUILD YOUR OWN, IMAGINE THE INCOME OUT OF IT?

I've actually spoken to a couple of Cebupac drivers and they've actually said "they joined Cebupac because the 320 is coming, and employment outside is abundant for 320"...so e6...was that quote in the interest of the company, or self interest.- JUST IMAGINE THE WORDS YOU USED FOR PILOTS(DRIVERS), OUR LICENSE DONT COME CHEAP.ITS FULL OF SWEAT AND HARDWORK, HOW DARE YOU? IT ONLY SHOWS HOW SMALL YOU LOOK TOWARDS YOUR COMRADES.

If the pay in the Philippines is so little, then it is...nothing you can do to change that in the near future...but like they say "live within your means". Now if you can't because you live a life higher than the average Filipino (pilot salaries are way, way higher than the average Filipino by the way), maybe have "extra-curricular activities" then that's a different forum all together.- YOU ARE THE MOST HOPELESS PERSON I'VE COME ACROSS TO, THE MOST PESSIMISTIC AS WELL, A FENCE SITTER. I BET YOU HAVE A LONG LIST OF ABORTED TAKE-OFFS JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE WORRIED YOUR ENGINES MIGHT CONK-OUT.?

i THOUGHT YOU'RE A BIG HELP.:{

[flyboy72]

Flyboy, nothing personal but you seem to be changing your story all the time. In an earlier post you couldn't believe nj could have signed 01-06 and even considered talking to him about it. Then you say it's supposed to stop flt time "padding". Now you say 01-06 is ok since it shouldn't be hard getting clearance as long as you don't have problems with pal management. Make up your mind Holmes.
If there's one thing consistent, it's that pal pilots always want to leave. Why? The answer is obvious.
That's why I didn't go back during the '98 strike.

Nothing contrary at all e6. It should stop "padding" (limitedly) which is actually the purpose...now 01-06 should be "ok" cause less you got problems you CAN get a clearance. Now if a pilot (not necessarily PAL pilots) have been padding then you got a problem, unless a pilot is in cohoots with the owner or operator, and that poses a totally different problem.

And with PAL pilots leaving, it's their choice. You made the choice in 98 to do what you think is right for YOU, and not for your fellow pilots, or for your dreaded ALPAP officers (where are they now by the way). It was for you and your family. If leaving PAL now is "hard", why did they even get into it.

You see, its not about 01-06. It's how the pilots feel with regards to their working environment or situation. If things were satisfactory to the pilot's liking, 01-06 would not be in question. And guess what...while the exodus was going on...the pilots were having a hayday...and 01-06 is not gonna stop that.

[flyboy72]

- YOU ARE THE MOST HOPELESS PERSON I'VE COME ACROSS TO, THE MOST PESSIMISTIC AS WELL, A FENCE SITTER. I BET YOU HAVE A LONG LIST OF ABORTED TAKE-OFFS JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE WORRIED YOUR ENGINES MIGHT CONK-OUT.?

i THOUGHT YOU'RE A BIG HELP.:{

cessna1052, whoa take it easy. I totally understand how you feel, and your comment towards my write-up is justified. It was not meant to be offensive, and I apologize for that and if it may seem that I am fence sitting on it.

I have said before that I am for what is right...but let us see first what happens to 01-06. What the ATO is saying is the pilots have not given 01-06 a chance and there are clamors already. They are willing to hear out what problems 01-06 can bring if it brings any.

And no I don't work in PAL, but you don't have to work in PAL to know what goes on in PAL. But like I said apologies, right now I am just taking a step back to take a look at the whole picture.

I was part of an industry before (not aviation) that dealt with OFWs who looked for greener pastures for their family, and I fought FOR them whenever there were problems...

[Cessna1052]

cessna1052, whoa take it easy. I totally understand how you feel, and your comment towards my write-up is justified. It was not meant to be offensive, and I apologize for that and if it may seem that I am fence sitting on it.

I have said before that I am for what is right...but let us see first what happens to 01-06. What the ATO is saying is the pilots have not given 01-06 a chance and there are clamors already. They are willing to hear out what problems 01-06 can bring if it brings any.

And no I don't work in PAL, but you don't have to work in PAL to know what goes on in PAL. But like I said apologies, right now I am just taking a step back to take a look at the whole picture.

I was part of an industry before (not aviation) that dealt with OFWs who looked for greener pastures for their family, and I fought FOR them whenever there were problems...

That is well copied Flyboy, i always try to be civilized, though emotions takes over sometimes...., but with clear reasons,of course.

[e6b]

And with PAL pilots leaving, it's their choice. You made the choice in 98 to do what you think is right for YOU, and not for your fellow pilots...
You better get you facts straight flyboy. My decision not to scab was made FOR my fellow pilots. It was those who initially broke the strike who were thinking about themselves.
You claim you weren't a pal pilot, you weren't there so don't sound so righteous when you talk about the strike. You don't have the right; being just a spectator while we fought for the dignity of our proffesion.
Go listen to PLANESTUPID, his post was spot on.

[DeltaSix]

Can someone please convince me that 5pfarms and Flyboy72 are not planted by the airline management or the ATO.

Looks like some people don't see the underlying reasons why this 01-06 was signed. I'm not even working in the Philippines and I can smell it a thousand miles away. How naive can some people get ?

Flyboy72 you said that the ATO does not prevent you from gaining employment overseas. Hah !!! - like hell they don't !!! This is an insult. They really think that the Filipino people are so gullible to fall for this crap. The email proves it otherwise. Or haven't you read it ?
Again, from our friend Flyboy72 quoting "If the pay in the Philippines is so little, then it is...nothing you can do to change that in the near future".....

This is exactly the sort of mentality that will drag this country down Flyboy72.
You will have to believe that there is always room for improvement. Vietnam who went through so many wars have a higher growth rate than the Philippines it's embarrasing.
Don't they realize that OFWs contribute to the economy of the Philippines ?
Get over it, they are not fooling anyone.
Everyone knows that this is just an elaborate ploy from the government coniving with the airlines to tighten your chains so you can get stuck in poverty like they are. As the saying goes "How can you soar like an eagle if you are stuck with turkeys " so, get out where the "turkeys" are. And most of you have already done that. I congratulate you.

To the others, no matter what 5pfarms or flyboy72 say, it is very clear that they are on to you and only a dumbo would not see that. The government can force the airline to pay your " proper market value" instead of imposing these ridiculous requirements.
Now the question is, what are you going to do about it ?

To the management of PAL, Cebupac and others.....
If you are short on pilots, then TRAIN MORE. Or is this too complicated to take in ? There are hundreds of people out there wanting a job like this. And if they eventually leave, then this is just a normal course of events. Whether you like it or not, some if not more will not stay after the 5 year term. Get that through your head.

I hope you realize this before you destroy people's lives and eventually the country.


DeltaSix

[flyboy72]

You better get you facts straight flyboy. My decision not to scab was made FOR my fellow pilots. It was those who initially broke the strike who were thinking about themselves.
You claim you weren't a pal pilot, you weren't there so don't sound so righteous when you talk about the strike. You don't have the right; being just a spectator while we fought for the dignity of our proffesion.
Go listen to PLANESTUPID, his post was spot on.

Not being righteous at all. You didn't go back...good for you. Some broke away from the strike (some were "thinking of themselves" but some went back for their families). And others went back when the strike was over...and some probably are going back to this day because they have to feed their families.

Principle and the continuous fight for the profession is always a good thing...up until one's family tells them to go back, what do they do? To your eyes what are they? Can you answer for them? Sorry but I can't. A few families were torn apart as a result. Are you gonna do anything for them, I doubt it. But you have a job right? Maybe overseas?

By the way, you don't have to be a PAL pilot or be part of a strike to understand whats going on in the Philippine aviation, then and now.

[flyboy72]

Cessna1052, E6b, Delta and all others in the forum.

Your group has made valid points, and it won't go unheard. Sorry if I didn't sound so supportive. And the emotions can run high...but it is for the freedom of the Filipino pilot.

Oh delta by the way, I wasn't planted by PAL management...I don't like them either trust me on that one. :)

[Cessna1052]

Bit by bit i'm starting to believe D6, that this fellows 5p and Flyboy72 are on the otherside, well Guys..You're Always Welcome! Flyboy isn't from PAL, he says, but he's very much aware of what has happened(except he missed a year, when he said the strike was 97.) Don't tell us You're Jimmy? or maybe one of the companies Corporate lawyer?
This is really turning out to be a nice forum after all, i just hope this views goes across all the way to the people running those companies. Just tell them this, "Whats the worry all about? the Pilots are merely 10%,we can let them go and still have the 90% of the work force". Isn't it???

[kontra]

It hit the spot, D6 & Cessna. I dont know who these clowns are (5p & fly) but they do sound like someone with the management, if not one of them.

I heard that line "you are just 10% of the total workforce....". It is true, but this 10% is the main asset to make or break an airline. Have you clowns thought that any pilot can do the work of the other 90%? Pilots can do the clerical jobs. Check-in, ramp loader, HR, marketing, etc with minimal training and in a few weeks time. But can the other 90% do the job of the so called "only 10%" with minimal training? I am not here to degrade the other 90% of the company, all i want to say is that however small in quantity we are in the company, our contribution to the company operations is MORE THAN 10%!!!

Now, all they do is to put more fuel in the fire. Instead of addressing the reason, they do the opposite. They force the others to want to leave with their ridiculous policies.

[flyboy72]

Bit by bit i'm starting to believe D6, that this fellows 5p and Flyboy72 are on the otherside, well Guys..You're Always Welcome! Flyboy isn't from PAL, he says, but he's very much aware of what has happened(except he missed a year, when he said the strike was 97.) Don't tell us You're Jimmy? or maybe one of the companies Corporate lawyer?
This is really turning out to be a nice forum after all, i just hope this views goes across all the way to the people running those companies. Just tell them this, "Whats the worry all about? the Pilots are merely 10%,we can let them go and still have the 90% of the work force". Isn't it???

Jimmy? What a puppet...gee I hope am not that guy. :) But no luck in that. Am not in PAL, not in management, and not in ATO. Although my "devil's advocate" may have been met with some critisism, I do believe it is good and healthy for this forum.

Mr. Kontra, before you start calling me a clown, answer this...why did you give yourself the username Kontra. Sounds appropriate. I agree with cessna and you that 10% of pilots, as little percentage as it is, is an integral part of the work force. I never questioned that at all. Management in all honesty is scared at this point with regards to the 10%.

[e6b]

Not being righteous at all. You didn't go back...good for you. Some broke away from the strike (some were "thinking of themselves" but some went back for their families). And others went back when the strike was over...and some probably are going back to this day because they have to feed their families.
Principle and the continuous fight for the profession is always a good thing...up until one's family tells them to go back, what do they do? To your eyes what are they? Can you answer for them? Sorry but I can't. A few families were torn apart as a result. Are you gonna do anything for them, I doubt it. But you have a job right? Maybe overseas?
By the way, you don't have to be a PAL pilot or be part of a strike to understand whats going on in the Philippine aviation, then and now.Look at yourself , nothing else intelligent to say about 01-06, now you're an expert on the '98 strike.
That's the problem when you try to talk authoritatively about something you have no FIRSTHAND knowledge of. You then try to drag the issues of the '98 strike into this and go OT, knowing that your support for 01-06 clearly shows that you are on the payroll. However, if you read my post carefully, I mentioned those who "initially broke the strike". The strike breakers. The real scabs. Do you want me to name them? I have a lot of friends who went back and I have nothing against them, they had few or no options at all. We even adviced them to go back and even loaned them money to tide them over. And you have the tenacity to ask me what I did for my fellow pilots while you just probably stood by the sidelines, watching things unfold and doing nothing . You obviously don't know that people are reconciling their differences nowadays. And as I told C1052 earlier, we even share a few San Migs once in a while. Why not go to BTC during happy hour and see for yourself FIRSTHAND.
And yes, I do have a job but not abroad-I fly for CebuPac and have no plans of leaving. But still, 01-06 pisses me off as much as anyone who can see it's real purpose. Even our management pilots here have signed an ongoing petition by our union against 01-06. Not because they have plans of leaving but that they know it is unconstitutional. How many pal management pilots have left recently? Just shows you the sad state of affairs at pal.
Yes, you don't have to be a pilot to know anything about Philippine Aviation, but that doesn't hold true for the '98 strike. A lot of friendships and familiy relations were strained because of the 98 strike, just like in the '70s strike, just like during times of war; it's inevitable. Don't expect to stage a strike and just have a picnic or a boodle fight. But don't even try to lecture me on that: you had nothing to loose, you were just a fence sitter.

[kontra]

Mr. Kontra, before you start calling me a clown, answer this...why did you give yourself the username Kontra. Sounds appropriate. I agree with cessna and you that 10% of pilots, as little percentage as it is, is an integral part of the work force. I never questioned that at all. Management in all honesty is scared at this point with regards to the 10%.

Did I offend you? Im sorry if I did. That was once what JH called pal pilots, just to make you feel how it is to be called like that by the persons who you are trying to justify their actions. The name Kontra is not what you think it is. What ever it is. It is a computer game that I used to play. It may sound appropriate, but you got it all wrong.

[Julie Andrews]

Tried the other combinations. This one had the best ring to it. :p

[kontra]

Tried the other combinations. This one had the best ring to it. :p

HAHAHA!!!! For a while there I thought that it the real thing. Can you sing the "sound of music" too?

[Julie Andrews]

Well, I prefer to "rock the boat." :p
CHEERS fellow rebels!

[kontra]

Well, I prefer to "rock the boat." :p
CHEERS fellow rebels!

ahehehe......:ok: ah, the song that made JH famous.

[Cessna1052]

Tried the other combinations. This one had the best ring to it. :p

What a combination? Perfect Amigo!......now, lets rock the boat.

[5pfarms]

Nothing contrary at all e6. It should stop "padding" (limitedly) which is actually the purpose...now 01-06 should be "ok" cause less you got problems you CAN get a clearance. Now if a pilot (not necessarily PAL pilots) have been padding then you got a problem, unless a pilot is in cohoots with the owner or operator, and that poses a totally different problem.

And with PAL pilots leaving, it's their choice. You made the choice in 98 to do what you think is right for YOU, and not for your fellow pilots, or for your dreaded ALPAP officers (where are they now by the way). It was for you and your family. If leaving PAL now is "hard", why did they even get into it.

You see, its not about 01-06. It's how the pilots feel with regards to their working environment or situation. If things were satisfactory to the pilot's liking, 01-06 would not be in question. And guess what...while the exodus was going on...the pilots were having a hayday...and 01-06 is not gonna stop that.

with 01-06, does it not make keeping a log book useless cause they will not honor the entries? just a thought

[DeltaSix]

Logbook entries and all the clearances in the world will mean jack **** if you fail the flight test. I have seen 300 hour pilots that would make 2,000 hour pilots look green.

D6

[flyboy72]

Good day fellows.

Well further research were made through a "contact" with regards to 01-06. Come to think of it, how pointless...if you can "pad" and get a "flight certification" (fake), then I would suppose you can do the same with the required "clearance".

Anyway, the 01-06 alone can't break a pilot...but combine it with the 6 month advance notice (PAL), the looooong term contract for training, and the OFW 5-year ban implemented by the POEA (the ban not being limited to just aviation professional of course)...that will ultimately prevent pilots from being employed overseas.

C1052, e6...your assessment regarding as to how this 01-06 came about is CORRECT. Inside info reveals that 01-06 was "forcibly" signed...not by Jimmy Bautista (doesn't know his head from his :mad: ), not by LT cause like I said NJ does not heed even to tycoons who have all the money. Take a pot shot guess on who it is cause NJ only serves to the pleasure of only one person.

That is all for now.

[Cessna1052]

Good day fellows.

Well further research were made through a "contact" with regards to 01-06. Come to think of it, how pointless...if you can "pad" and get a "flight certification" (fake), then I would suppose you can do the same with the required "clearance".

Anyway, the 01-06 alone can't break a pilot...but combine it with the 6 month advance notice (PAL), the looooong term contract for training, and the OFW 5-year ban implemented by the POEA (the ban not being limited to just aviation professional of course)...that will ultimately prevent pilots from being employed overseas.

C1052, e6...your assessment regarding as to how this 01-06 came about is CORRECT. Inside info reveals that 01-06 was "forcibly" signed...not by Jimmy Bautista (doesn't know his head from his :mad: ), not by LT cause like I said NJ does not heed even to tycoons who have all the money. Take a pot shot guess on who it is cause NJ only serves to the pleasure of only one person.

That is all for now.


Flyboy72,
I can only guess two possible answer. If its not the President of the Philippines, then it must be His WIFE.....:D .

[flyboy72]

Flyboy72,
I can only guess two possible answer. If its not the President of the Philippines, then it must be His WIFE.....:D .

Hahaha:) the wife part was actually a good answer...but its the other person.

[jaggernaut]

I think I have said this before to you E6B, it is an idiotic idea on the part of the ATO and whoever they are coniving with. Also, renewing your ATPL is a personal matter, all they should care about is whether you have renewed it or not, full stop. Don't even start to think "why" they are doing this to pilots as the only answer you will get are lies to serve their interest especially if businessmen and politicians are involved.
They think all of you are so gullible to fall for this crap and won't be able to do or say anything about it. Unfortunately, that might be exactly how the cookie crumbles in this country.
I'd seriously think about getting the US FAA ATP and get the hell out of there faster than you can say "go".

"In the Interest of National Safety and Security" they say? .... now let's see... how will charging you every 6 months to renew your license or having a clearance from your "employer" in the interest of national security ?
Now, who's the terrorists here ? you or them ? This whole fiasco has more holes than a colander. I can only shake my head.

Bisaya - all the best, good luck mate. Give me a ring next time you're in Sydney.

DeltaSix


NJ was pressured when congressman roseller barinaga made a privelege speech about ATO not making any move to stop the pilots and the acft mechanics leaving the phil. For info roseller was one of the unknown figures behind mr tan before he became a congressman. I guess its pay back time. He is trying to pass a law that would stop pilots from leaving the phil for the next 5 years. Just imagine you can't leave for better paying offers. LT is really powerful don't you think so? He even appears during congressional hearings to show pressure to the legislators.

jaggernaut

[Cessna1052]

I guess its pay back time. He is trying to pass a law that would stop pilots from leaving the phil for the next 5 years. Just imagine you can't leave for better paying offers. LT is really powerful don't you think so? He even appears during congressional hearings to show pressure to the legislators.

jaggernaut[/quote]

So, How hopeless is hopeless????? Are the chances now down to Zero for the guys who have plans?

[dasmith]

It is true that poea controls exits from the country for employment purposes. What is to stop a filipino citizen from leaving the country as a "tourist" then proceeding to his job?

[DeltaSix]

What is to stop a filipino citizen from leaving the country as a "tourist" then proceeding to his job?

I totally agree. Employers here will NEVER ask your authorization from POEA or your airline to work from them. As long as you have the correct Visa, their requirements, and you're in. I guess, that's something on the bright side.

If you explain to them how vindictive your airline is by not giving you the work reference as they are like the Gestappo, I'm sure they will understand.

Just show them your log book.

D6

[powderkeg]

Capt. :mad: "Do Not Rock The Boat" earns 900,000 a month. I guess his actions in Philippine Airlines are all "in aid of job security." His "solutions" to the PAL exodus is planned for the short term (up to his retirement date only, 2008 or 2009 yata!). After that date, bahala na kayo!!! Do the math, 1.5 months pay per year of service multiplied by more than 30 years on top of the 25% of monthly pay promised per month of service. These guys will definitely go into survival mode :mad: :mad: and tell you "DO NOT ROCK THE BOAT."


hey guys! cant help but pitch in from the sidelines. RIGHT ON! I agree with u 100% that Capt. Rock the boat is in survival mode. this move is another ace up his sleeve. No one knows up to what extent he will go just to show how much he loves to suck his chinese Boss's ASS! all in the guise of patrotism....

To you Capt. Rock the Boat, being patriotic as you may sound (if indeed you wrote the letter) why dont you prove us all wrong and make the sacrifice to your company and country

-resign from your position
-fly regular schedules like line capts
-live on a line capts. pay
-donate your excess pay to your deprived pilots
-include your would be retirement, to help your company tide things over for the next few years at least

maybe then you can set both of your feet on the ground once more and help you realize you were once HUMAN........:oh:

[planestupid]

What is to stop a filipino citizen from leaving the country as a "tourist" then proceeding to his job?

I agree dasmith. What does poea do anyway, besides collect bribes and hand out phoney certificates for filipinos to work abroad? What are they going to do? Arrest a filipino that has left the country for a couple of years after working abroad?

Here is a quote from POEA website:

MISSION
the POEA’s mission is “to ensure decent and productive employment for Overseas Filipino Workers.”

· Guarantee of migrant workers rights
· Stricter rules on illegal recruitment activities and the corresponding penalties


WOW.... what a bola!!! Sounds like the gestapo to me!! How do they guarantee rights of migrant workers? Stricter rules = BRIBES. Tell me what other country does this to its people? Tell me the equivalent in the US or any country? You can't, kasi there is no agency like them.
Does that mean the will revoke our citizenship if you leave to work abroad? Like a lot of these government agencies... they are there to lord it over the people, extort money and add no real benefit to the community that pays for them.

[Julie Andrews]

That's because Americans don't go abroad to work as toilet cleaners. The POEA exists because of maids and other blue-collar workers, and they really do their job. If an aspiring OFW needs info on a certain recruiter, he/she can go to the POEA. Not all government agencies are ineffective, you know.

Next time, try not to live up to your name. :confused:

P.S. Stop making reference to the Gestapo; you dunno what it is. But since you mentioned
it, there's one right inside Gate 1.

[bisaya]

Give the pilots their wings
The Manila Times
EDITORIAL
Saturday, March 18, 2006


SAYING the exodus of Filipino pilots and aircraft mechanics will kill them, the Lucio Tan-owned Philippine Airlines, sister-firm Air Philippines, the Gokongwei family-controlled Cebu Pacific Air, and the Turalba, Onate and Po triumvirate’s the Asian Spirit are all urging government to impose a moratorium on (meaning “to stop”) the deployment abroad of the industry’s skilled labor.

The native carriers are funding a media campaign to warn about the coming demise of the country’s airline industry for lack of pilots, mechanics and other technically skilled personnel. They have invoked nationalism and national security, even promoted some xenophobia, to secure media mileage and clinch public support for their move to keep pilots and mechanics Philippine-bound.

The high rate of foreign rivals’ “poaching” on airline talent will leave the four Filipino carriers without a single pilot and mechanic four years from now.

“Poaching” is an interesting term to use for the OFW phenomenon, which allows Filipinos to hold jobs abroad that pay them very much more than their salaries here at home.

We didn’t hear the terms “deployment moratorium” and “poaching” used for the draining of teachers and nurses from our educational and health systems, which are the heart of the nation’s human-capital infrastructure. Teachers and nurses are perhaps more important to the common good and national survival than pilots and mechanics. Yet, why has the Philippine Overseas Employment Administration endorsed the native airlines’ call to forbid Filipino pilots and mechanics from working abroad, while it did not lift a finger to keep our teachers and nurses from holding jobs as domestic helpers and caregivers abroad?

The government must ignore the airline companies’ clamor for the deployment ban, which is unconstitutional. There are other more effective and legally uncontroversial ways of persuading our pilots and mechanics to stay at home and keep our airlines amply-manned.

All concerned in the government—in the executive and legislative branches—should first of all rigorously examine what really ails the domestic airline industry and how it may best be addressed.

Forbiding pilots and airline mechanics and technicians from seeking jobs abroad violates their constitutional right to travel and work where they please. A government-imposed moratorium would also violate the human-rights principles of the United Nations. Did the airlines really think their move to classify the pilots’ exodus as a part of the national emergency encompassed by Proclamation 1017 would wash?
_________________

[planestupid]

That's because Americans don't go abroad to work as toilet cleaners. The POEA exists because of maids and other blue-collar workers, and they really do their job. If an aspiring OFW needs info on a certain recruiter, he/she can go to the POEA. Not all government agencies are ineffective, you know.

Next time, try not to live up to your name. :confused:

P.S. Stop making reference to the Gestapo; you dunno what it is. But since you mentioned
it, there's one right inside Gate 1.

Ms Andrews,

As far as our beloved proffession is concerned, we are the blue collar workers!!! Don't kid yourself. The last I checked ATPL holders do not need a degree to hold a licence. High school dip is the min. We may not be cleaning toilets but we all serve someone. So that makes us blue collar and some of us aspiring OFWs!! You made a good point about POEA, they should be looking out for our interest and giving us info on recruiters. Instead they are going to make it impossible to seek a better future for our families. NOT LEGAL, NOT CONSTITUTIONAL, NOT FAIR!!

[Julie Andrews]

Ms Andrews,

As far as our beloved proffession is concerned, we are the blue collar workers!!! Don't kid yourself. The last I checked ATPL holders do not need a degree to hold a licence. High school dip is the min. We may not be cleaning toilets but we all serve someone. So that makes us blue collar and some of us aspiring OFWs!! You made a good point about POEA, they should be looking out for our interest and giving us info on recruiters. Instead they are going to make it impossible to seek a better future for our families. NOT LEGAL, NOT CONSTITUTIONAL, NOT FAIR!!

My, my, my, planestupid...
I dunno about what you do, but last time I flew, I did not wear any protective clothing - this is the etymology of the word "blue-collar." It's got nothing to do with having a degree, although, I hasten to add, I do have one. Perhaps it's guys like you who feel degraded, demeaned, abused, trampled upon because "we all serve someone," and are therefore "blue-collar," who fuel the embers of low morale in the cadre of pilots.

Back to the thread. The POEA and Sto Tomas, as a government institution, is not immune to political pressure, just like the ATO and Jatico. You can cry foul and unconstitutional to your throat's desire, BUT the buck stops with GMA. I smell ****.

[The Hammer]

last time I flew, I did not wear any protective clothingAstronauts wear protective clothing :E
Actually, so do Surgeons and research scientists.
"Blue collar" has traditionally meant unskilled/low skilled.
I humbly suggest that professional pilots do NOT fall into that classification.
Ahhhhhh, corruption in the Phils - it's so...so...overt, isn't it.

[Julie Andrews]

Astronauts wear protective clothing :E
Actually, so do Surgeons and research scientists.
"Blue collar" has traditionally meant unskilled/low skilled.
I humbly suggest that professional pilots do NOT fall into that classification.
Ahhhhhh, corruption in the Phils - it's so...so...overt, isn't it.

The term was coined in 1946, well before astronauts and space flight caught the world's fancy. :uhoh: But anyway TH, the whole thing is just semantics. Pprune isn't the proper forum. BTW, what about the watch repairman along Aurora Blvd in Cubao? I believe the horological profession is one that entails a lot of skill. Is he then white-collar? Hmmm, something tells me he still isn't.

Nope. Not for once did I ever think commanding say, SPEED PULL, or perhaps reading VNAV PTH on the FMA was blue-collar.

"Corruption in the Phils".... so what else is new?

P.S. Overt is a strong word. Circumstancial does not equal actual. Ahhhhh..

[The Hammer]

Horologists require a certain degree of manual dexterity. Skill?
Many OFW's are skillful at their work, however, as with straight manual labour, there may be very little intellectual capacity required to perform the task(s) at hand.

"Overt" in the context in which I used it, simply meant "open/unconcealed".
Corruption in the Phils is a way of life - and a fact of life.
One would imagine that employees of the ATO are no less exposed, nor no less aware of that, than any other inhabitant there. :D

[Julie Andrews]

Horologists require a certain degree of manual dexterity. Skill?
Many OFW's are skillful at their work, however, as with straight manual labour, there may be very little intellectual capacity required to perform the task(s) at hand.

"Overt" in the context in which I used it, simply meant "open/unconcealed".
Corruption in the Phils is a way of life - and a fact of life.
One would imagine that employees of the ATO are no less exposed, nor no less aware of that, than any other inhabitant there. :D

So from "Blue-collar has traditionally meant unskilled/low-skilled." TO "Many OFWs are skillful..........there may be very little intellectual capacity..." ROTFL

Although it was never MY way of life, corruption does take place at such a scale that outsiders (like you?) perceive it to be the order of the day.

The first few months that I joined, I got asked a lot by my colleagues why I left and how I find _____. My standard answer to the 2nd one was always, "It's a good substitute for HOME." Not that there will ever be a substitute for home, but that it was my diplomatic way of saying that no matter how congested and filthy, or as you say, corruption-laden RPLL is, I'll always be a pinoy showing the entire world that I CAN fly just like they can.

To my colleagues who have escaped the clutches of oppression at Nichols, don't bastardize your homeland. You owe it to who you are.

[planestupid]

JA you are right its just semantics. Even if you wear a white collar to work, its still a uniform. "White Collar Workers" don't generally wear uniforms. Blue collar generally have manual jobs, stick and rudder pare is very manual!! You say you don't wear protective clothing? Don't you wear a reflective vest when you do your 360? I've always understood white collar to be management, someone that requires a degree. JA you may have one... but you don't need one. (AO 60.152) I could have a medical degree but choose to drive trucks, does that mean I am a white collar worker??? NO.
You say that I must be degraded, demeaned, abused, trampled. Maybe.... but the only people I care about is my wife and family and now she has a budget 3 times of what I would be getting at gate 1. So I wouldn't say i feel degraded. I know my place in this world. If I wanted to be a very rich man I wounldn't have chosen to be a pilot, instead I'm wealthy man because I spend a lot of time with my family, I love my work and get paid a decent amount. Its only going to get worse for Phil companies, the majority of companies on the planet need pilots and will do anything to get them. PAL has 8 new 320s coming, SO?? EK has 50 new ac. Do the math guys....Semantics or not whatever collar, we should have the opportunity to choose our own lives, not have it dictated by any company or oppressive governments. Anyone seriously thinking about other companies... s g na come and see how good it really is!!