"Asiana Airlines flying into the Valley of Death!"

[scramjet888]

Current news about Asiana Airlines now scrapping their civilian flight crew recuitment. Instead they have opted, to only recruit Ex-Korean Air Force personnel. Obviously they’re flying into the same Valley of death, as did Korean Airlines. At least Korean Airlines are climbing out of the valley, pulling up to the stick shaker. It was well known that Asiana was the safer between the two airlines, which has now been seriously compromised.

When will they understand that Air Force personnel and CRM does not mix, especially in an Asian country because of the Authority gradient being too steep. Clear reasons why Asiana and Korean airlines have had so many accidents, 1) Basic English problems amongst native Korean pilots (listening, speaking, and reading NOTAMS), 2) Poor CRM on the flight deck, and 3) Just plain bad management. The only people I feel sorry for are the Korean traveling population, their given right to safety when they pay for a seat. God help Asiana Airlines!

. . <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[Anti Skid On]

Scramjet - you'll be giving your Asiana frequent flyer card back then?

[silverbird]

Scramjet

There were actually very hot debates regarding these issues on PPRUNE last year. Try the search engine and you'll find very interesting discussions.

Good luck!

[recceguy]

Scramjet

I know this topic has been much debated in the past, anyway I can't resist throwing some inputs.. .Having spent 21 years in the Air Force, (18 on fighters and the final 2 on transport) I have been flying in the airlines for the past two years, and I'm now happy in a very recent command position of a smart 4-engines jet aircraft. So I figure that I can speak about both world, having known both, isn't it ?

I think flying airliners is good for middle-aged people, above 40, so it's quite appropriate for retired military. A pity to start it as a young man, really. I was selected 23 years ago as a company cadet, and preferred the AF option, and never, never at any moment did regret my choice !

Still thinking that AF (or Navy..) guys are alone in the skies ? read the books, get some facts !. .And if the only knowledge of the military comes from US movies, which is obviously the case Scramjet, well poor of you

As for the Korean chaps, as you may know it's a country under significant threat. So air force people defending their countries get some privileges when they get old, as it is the case for similar reasons in Israel, Turkey... and obviously not in Danemark or Austria !

. .Only two sorts of aircraft: fighter and targets

[rward]

Hey Recceguy,

nice ego.

[ijp]

22years military-fighters

12years airlines-middle east

conclusion- you do what you gotta do

[ 01 February 2002: Message edited by: ijp ]</p>

[TG910]

Scramjet888 why must you be so racist to asian military people? your likes fuel the problems that exist in Seoul.. .I suggest you look closer to home if you are concerned about safety issues .....not that you are <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[Cyclic Hotline]

Ah, well if isn't our good friend invaribly back to tell us how much better his Dad is than yours! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

I thought the writing style and topics were familiar, Dublin airport, Thai, and an obscure fixation on Pilots retirement ages, but really had to see the full gamut of responses! <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

This time invaribly, sorry..., TG 910, is from *****s off, last time he was emailing us from [email protected].

There's some pretty good humour here from this guy! <a href="http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=recent_user_posts&u=00033720" target="_blank">invaribly</a>

As 4711 suggested on another (current) post, get back to your homework!

[recceguy]

Hey rward

By definition it can't be dealing with ego as names are not public on this forum, aren'they?

[scramjet888]

Anti Skid On- It would be wise of the other airlines that are in the same alliance as Asiana to break away and not share their reward schemes. If not they’ll be punished, tarnished and banished.. . <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[scramjet888]

Recceguy- Alex Paterson’s quote sums it up from the Delta audit “MILITARY PILOTS are not necessarily poor pilots, but they are trained to achieve their mission by taking risks, whereas civilian airline pilots are required by law to achieve their's taking NONE. For this reason, military pilots need to be completely retrained on joining an airline, a process most Western airlines perform successfully.

However, many Asian airlines are predominately staffed by ex-military pilots who bring to the airline an ethos of risk taking and an over-confidence in their abilities and this ethos infects the whole organization. KAL is a classic example of this problem as revealed by the audit.

Of course all this has nothing to do with true Asian culture and presumably it will eventually diminish with the gradual introduction of democracy and human rights in those countries.

In the mean time, many Asian airlines will experience avoidable airline disasters over the next 10 to 20 years that will be the direct result of endemic and systemic incompetence and corruption existing within those airlines.”

Asiana is now back tracking the foot steps of Korean Airlines.

Recceguy as for the “Korean chaps” they are the significant threat to their country. In the past they have killed more of their countrymen than did the North Koreans after the war. (technically still at war but with their own ex-air force pilots).. . <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[scramjet888]

TG910- I am not a racist but when upper management recruit ex- air force pilots who take command and just F*** up so badly killing unaware passengers that really P***** me off. What’s more infuriating is the ex- air force captains who ignore the F/Os and tell them to obey orders.

You said “I suggest you look closer to home if you are concerned about safety issues”.

Well TG910 when an Asiana aircraft slams through your home roof while you’re watching television don’t complain about safety issues, mind you that aircraft would be flown by two ex-Korean military pilots.

When they pull out the black box, your parents will hear the captain tell the F/O, “you just shut up and look outside the window!” with the GPWS blazing in the background (whoop, whoop, pull up). Thai is not the best airline but thanks for your input.

[JJflyer]

TG910... Poor sod. Have no clue now have you ? Nuf said.