Flywho [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

future_pilot17

17th Feb 2006, 22:48

I would really send out a warning to anyone thinking about making a booking with this bunch, I mean who the frigg is gonna fly from Clearwater to Brum!!! I wouldn't buy a ticket with the clowns!
Regards
Mike

It's pathetic statements like that which shouldn't be welcomed anywhere, just a childish outburst.

I echo Garry's comments below.

Mike

Do you have any inside knowledge or the people behind this operation, the business plan, the backers or which particular aircraft they operate. I havn't. If you havn't you is rather a sweeping statement. Can you back it up.

Nobody is buying a ticket from Clearwater as it is bascially a UK originating charter.

This chap has been trying to set this up for several years and has pervevered. I wish him good luck.

Garry

OltonPete

18th Feb 2006, 08:37

I would really send out a warning to anyone thinking about making a booking with this bunch, I mean who the frigg is gonna fly from Clearwater to Brum!!! I wouldn't buy a ticket with the clowns!

Regards

Mike

Well hopefully nobody in Clearwater, as they will be disappointed. My understanding is that it is UK bookings only and they are all bonded!

The only aspect at risk is any accom booked and your wasted time.

As Garry as stated, massive whole in the market in respect of Brum to
Florida and hopefully they can fill the gap.

My concerns are the aircraft and the price. As a born & bred Brummie ;)
we do tend to love a bargain and although there are affluent areas
around here with individuals owning property in Florida, whether there
are enough to support the service is the big question.

OltonPeter

GK430

18th Feb 2006, 09:40

Step back and examine the history.
This lot have been around and about for at least three yrs now & have not got passed the paper exercise stage.
Does anyone ever remember the old Caledonian Tristar service to Mahon on Fridays. It nearly always left late after tech problems; re-negotiations with the Mahon AFS to wait up for them;diversions to PMI; and even departures on Saturday. And they want to risk operating one now:*
Why are there so few long haul flights from BHX......think about the economics. One operator took there service elsewhere so that belly freight could be uplifted from a runway where the aircraft could get airborne and maximise the full payload potential.
History keeps repeating itself; as one starts up at BHX another pulls out.

ATNotts

18th Feb 2006, 12:23

Is my memory failing me? The only trans-atlantic operators who pulled their longhaul services from BHX as I can recall are BOAC (BHX-JFK); Highland Express (went belly up); Air Canada (service was really little more than a spoiler to sink Wardair - successfully as it happened), BA (returned to it's roots an British (London) Airways so far as longhaul is concerned, and American (as a direct result of 11 September and poor front-end yield).

In any event Flywho is not an airline - since it has no AOC. It is not operating scheduled services in the true sense of the word as you can't book from US to UK, and I believe, you can't book one-ways.

I very much hope Flywho does work - and despite the previous false dawns, it seems conceivable that it will, but one thing is for certain. Unsubstantiated criticism and bad-mouthing on boards such as this won't help them.

Buster the Bear

18th Feb 2006, 12:39

How many European start up airlines carrying passengers plan to use aircraft that are around 30 years old?

Reliability and punctuality are the reasons for not flying old airframes. Ignore the maintenance costs, huge damage can be done to small airlines that suffer from very poor on-time performance. Reputations are won and lost on this single issue.

Good luck to Flywho.

How many folk on here drive a 30 year old car, my guess, not very many!

Daza

18th Feb 2006, 15:45

GK430 you seem to be a little confused about longhaul operations at BHX only 3 other UK Airports have more long haul flights than BHX.

-BHX-EWR 10 per week in summer with CO 757
-DEL-ATQ-BHX-YYZ AI planned to be 6x per week with a 777
-Jet Airways awaiting authoristaion to start services TO ATQ and DEL
-PIA fly ISB-BHX 5x per week and a rumoured to be using 777 and 310 aircraft this summer
-BHX-DXB 14 FLIGHTS PER WEEK WITH 777/330
-QATAR in final talks with BHX plan to start 4X week with 330
OTHER LONG HAULS INCLUDE T
THOMSONFLY CUN,POP.SFB 763
AIR TRANSAT YYZ 310
TURKMENISTAN 757,763
UZBEKISTAN 757,763
MAHAN AIR 310,320

More long Haul services than ever before!
Daza

OltonPete

18th Feb 2006, 15:59

I think the reference to airlines pulling out is First Choice moving the Sanford flight to Nottingham East Midlands for summer 2005.

I am not sure what config the 767 was in but these are the CAA Stats for
NEMA to Sanford in 2005: -

June 2253
July 2215
August 2036 (I'm off to double check that figure)
September 2311

The 2006 brochure states the flights run on a Tuesday and if this was the
case in 2005 then it would 8 sectors per month except for August with 10

This would leave a dreadful load factor for August but was this affected
by weather in the US?

I know First Choice have advertised on TV in respect of "more legroom"
and these figures are not bad if it was 290 odd seater especially as
one would expect high fares in July/August.

OltonPete

Daza

18th Feb 2006, 16:11

A family friend is in charge of First Choice operations on the ground at BHX. She has often said that the only reason for the switch of long haul flights by FCA to NEMA was based purely on price. NEMA offered FCA cheaper fees and handling. Nothing to do with runway length/cargo etc. There is real demand for flights to the US ex BHX paticularly leisure flights. Pity this fumbling airline have picked an ageing aircraft.
Daza

Fried_Chicken

18th Feb 2006, 17:02

I suppose it could be worse, they could have ended up with the ex Slovak Airlines B767-200 (reg' OM-NSH) that spent more time sitting at Brum than it did flying :ugh:

Fried Chicken

aeulad

18th Feb 2006, 17:38

I apologise for sounding a bit dismissive on the subject. What I am trying to hit on is the welfare of people who book with flywho. What about all the people that have been trying to book flights for the last 2 years. Are FW reliable? Will the flights go ahead? Why take the risk of booking with them for it all to go down the plug hole before the first flight even takes off!?!

I have no doubt that there is some kind of a market for BHX-Orlando on a scheduled basis, but when one would be spending hundreds of pounds, is it guaranteed that we would get what we have paid for?

Regards

Mike

SM82

18th Feb 2006, 17:58

Anbody aware as to who's L1011 these flight will be operated by?

There a number of Portugese operators with L1011's i.e Luzair and Euro Atlantic maybe it could be them !

Centre cities

18th Feb 2006, 18:30

I certainly heard the price reason for FCA at NEMA. Not sure if it is true. I would imagine that NEMA were pretty desperate to attract long haul passenger flights after years without one and previous short lived flights to Orlando, Toronto and India. Good luck to them.

As to Flywho as the saying goes "lest's wait and see."

Centre cities

Buster the Bear

18th Feb 2006, 22:38

I am a bear, so I am simple. British Airways parked their 500's in the desert years ago.

Why, because no other airline wanted them and they were beyond their economic life? Some European airlines have used 1011's since, not many survive using them regularly, even daily?

Well that was true until now, a new lo-co will operate Birmingham to Sanford and St Pete's charging £99 one way..........Err no....not £99 each way, more like £200-£300 and the rest!

Risk my hard earned dosh with Flywho.....no way, my money will be spent on those that are most likely to get me there..and then back again according to their past history.

Engineer

19th Feb 2006, 07:49

Could this scheme be similiar to the Antipodean Air Charter one.
AAC was an airline based in Brighton UK. Established in 2004, a start-up airline planning to operate charter services to Australia and Florida from the UK, as well as ad hoc, VIP and inclusive tour charter services using Tristar aircraft. Its main bases were going to be LGW and MAN.
Believe the person behind that one was due for a court appearance this month :8

Centre cities

19th Feb 2006, 16:56

Buster.

Arnt't they ABTA bonded. Hard earned cash no, inconveniance possibly.

Centre cities

jmc757

19th Feb 2006, 20:47

I was going to write about how they've been banging on about ATOLs for a while but still haven't got one. But then I checked and low and behold, they actually do! Go Visit Ltd ATOL (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?categoryid=490&pagetype=65&applicationid=2&mode=detail&atolNbr=6962)

That aside, if they're seriously starting in June (as BHX have announced themselves) then where is the:

a) online booking
b) advertisement

They need a hell alot of advertisement if they're going to fill aircraft by June, and so far I've seen, well, none.

And who is going to operate the L1011s? Must be one of the Portugese operators?

future_pilot17

19th Feb 2006, 20:53

That aside, if they're seriously starting in June (as BHX have announced)

They've said July 8th

They need a hell alot of advertisement if they're going to fill aircraft by June, and so far I've seen, well, none.

As have the airline!

jmc757

19th Feb 2006, 20:59

They've said July 8th
As have the airline!

Sorrry, my mistake!

Airbus215

19th Feb 2006, 21:17

Having checked the details of Go Visits ATOL on line

For the last 2 quarters of 2006 Go Viist are bonded for less than 1200 PAX over the 6 months ......

Now scheduled airlines dont need an ATOL but .....

It seems very strange that once again FlyWho are about tolaunch
sadly on previous form I wont believe it till i see an aircraft take off from BHX with a FlyWho flight prefix !

Mike16

20th Feb 2006, 03:45

Hiya guys

No, Not Flywho, flyblue again, this old one appears every spring time, like a lot people say on here, beleive it when i see an AIRCRAFT ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

I thought this company had gone for good, now they are back to haunt us again.

Bye

Mike

bacardi walla

20th Feb 2006, 07:58

Am I mistaken, but does the website show an A310 and a B767 interior :confused:

They said July for first flight; did they specify which year :confused:

GK430

20th Feb 2006, 09:52

Not confused at all.
Shame you missed the only really good "longish haul" service....there are no real long haul ex BHX.
I use UAE regularly and a great service with good connenctions if you're going east.
I wonder how many on these forums would use the other operators on your list daza:E - I sure wouldn't. Having gone across the pond twice on a 757, I decided that was once too often - it is if you like comfort!
Best long haul from BHX is via DXB, AMS and CDG.
VP-BKZ is about the only plane that achieves long haul regularly! Like Beijing non stop.

Epsilon minus

21st Feb 2006, 09:24

L1011-500 BHX-Florida. Madness, raving looney madness.
L1011 = Gas guzzler and with fuel at the price it is why even consider operating one of these
L1011 = Highly un-reliable. Someone will be making a killing on AOG spares to keep the old crate from sitting on the ground for ever. Better train your ops guys in looking for the best brokers when it comes to trying to find a replacement aircraft.
If you end up with one of the Portugese ones you will be fleeced. They're not cheap and I bet you will do an acmi deal with them.
The only way flywhen will encourage pax to sit in clapped out un-reliable environmentally un friendly aircraft is with very cheap seats. So given the high operating costs of the aircraft where's the contribution going to come from?
EM

future_pilot17

21st Feb 2006, 09:45

It's pointless sitting here arguing about it really, untill July 8th rolls around no-one can really be sure of anything. No matter how right you think you are.:hmm:

Epsilon minus

21st Feb 2006, 10:05

future_pilot17

21st Feb 2006, 10:13

FP17
It's not an arguement; merely an observation. you appear to have a opposite position to most of the contributors to this thread. I would be interested to know why or what you know that the rest of don't?
Cheers
EM

Okay I agree, maybe argument was a bit of an overstatement, the reason being I have an opposite opinion is for a couple of reasons. Well I guess I can simply put it down to being a 'BHX Local' and just supporting any airline who chooses to begin operations here. Especially 'flywho' who are aiming at quite a specific market.

bacardi walla

21st Feb 2006, 10:29

The sad fact of the matter is this, and regardless of what the BHX Airport site and Flywho's own site say, Flywho will never get off the ground in July, this year or next. Their business plan (of which I have not seen, but don't need to), is already flawed by the fact they are now looking at L1011's. These aircraft were superb in their day, i.e. 70's and 80's but they have gone past their sell by date, especially for passenger operations.

Changing the company name from Flyblu to Flywho changes nothing else except that, the name. If the people running this so called new start up are professionals, they would have waited to have all their soldiers lined up before making any announcement. All they have done so far is design a website, make numerous announcements about launching, delayed those launches, changed their name, changed aircraft types to be used 3 times and no doubt that will change again in due course too. The next thing will be another name change to something even more daft :bored:

Bored now :cool:

Centre cities

21st Feb 2006, 13:36

Thought the name was changed due legal reasons....an airline in the states wasnt to happy. Will stand corrected.

Centre cities

bacardi walla

21st Feb 2006, 13:38

Well there you are. They didn't do their homework before deciding on a name for this circus :E

Fried_Chicken

21st Feb 2006, 18:40

And who is going to operate the L1011s? Must be one of the Portugese operators?

In this case, I presume the Portuguese airline will be operating the aircraft on it's own AOC (as Flywho hasn't got one). Can a non UK or US airline (in this example, a Portuguese one) operate a scheduled UK to US route without jumping throug several hurdles?

Fried Chicken

EI-CFC

21st Feb 2006, 23:00

Also, is a charter company likely to fit out one of their fleet to meet Flywho's promises regarding seat pitch, etc?

jabird

21st Feb 2006, 23:09

Well I too would love to see this venture work, but I can't see it happening - and I can at least say that I have met the CEO in charge.

I like the principle, simply because I'm fed up with flying around in sardine tins, and don't mind the idea of paying a little bit more for some leg room. And let's face it, CO via EWR is neither comfortable nor convenient if you are comparing strictly with scheduled ops from BHX.

Using a tristar just seems daft, simply on the basis that old aircraft + cheap fares might work, but an attempt at a premium product on such an old beast? Less seats obviously also means more fuel burn on top of the factors already mentioned.

Globespan's daily GLA to SFB is ambitious, but they have excellent local branding, with a bit of help for marketing from the other end. There has to be more room in the market for innovative approaches to transatlantic flights, but BHX to Florida just isn't that place.

The good intentions might be there, combined with a certain amount of persistence to get this off the ground (is it now third time lucky?), but I just don't think the sums can work.

Epsilon minus

22nd Feb 2006, 07:08

I think most are agreed that notionally the fly boowho plan is ok but it is a high risk project. It started as Blu then went to who. It started with B767 then went to L1011 via an A310. Alleged stand off rows with the CPG and the FOI , attempts to sell seats to force them to alter track, doesn't make for a good start does it?
Irrespective of the nonsense regarding the choice of aircraft, the wisdom and judgement of the CEO must be called into question. :confused:
EM

GK430

22nd Feb 2006, 08:08

There were a couple of Air Rum L.1011's parked up at Fujairah in the UAE not long ago....:) Take them down to GAMCO at AUH and Bob's your proverbial uncle;)
Next thing you know, Freshaer will be back on the scene applying for slots and full of promises!

ALLDAYDELI

22nd Feb 2006, 10:22

I'm with Fried Chicken, what about traffic rights for all of this??

go_edw

23rd Feb 2006, 20:27

A L1011?

Dream on chaps. Dream on.......!

Epsilon minus

24th Feb 2006, 08:53

I see from the web site that you can get fare quotes for flights 13JUL to TPA
Isn't this a little risky? Fare quoted £1504 return for 2 adults. This seems a bit pricey to me.

bacardi walla

24th Feb 2006, 14:15

I see from the web site that you can get fare quotes for flights 13JUL to TPA
Isn't this a little risky? Fare quoted £1504 return for 2 adults. This seems a bit pricey to me.

It doesn't matter what they quote, it won't fly !! They'll announce another aircraft type before long........ B747-100's leased from some dodgy African outfit maybe :confused:

Epsilon minus

27th Feb 2006, 07:52

Umm. This is from their web site. No mention of an L1011 here

http://www.flywho.com/images/service/fare_deal.jpg

and look at this !

http://www.flywho.com/images/service/go_gold.jpg

So Buster the B. If this is what they're showing on their web site where did you get hold of the L1011-500 information from?

GK430

27th Feb 2006, 09:24

Whatever it is, it looks like a freight variant....No windows:D
And don't you just hate those seats with the metal bars - hell on the ankles!

HZ123

27th Feb 2006, 10:20

Is it a beaten up old A310, if so not an economic option.

Cyrano

27th Feb 2006, 13:33

Don't read anything into the lack of windows. The seat photo if I'm not mistaken is from FlyWho's cabin mockup on their stand at the World Travel Market in London in November 2004, not from a real aircraft. I would assume that the aircraft type will be listed in FlyWho's slot filings for summer 06, if anyone has access to these for confirmation (maybe that's where you saw the type, Buster?). I think they'd be mad to start operating an L1011-500 themselves, but if they're getting it on wetlease from the likes of EuroAtlantic, it's the latter who takes the operational responsibility for delivering a reliable service (e.g. only flying three rotations a week).

jmc757

27th Feb 2006, 14:28

I think everyone is talking about the L1011 because it was mentioned in this Birmingham Airport Press Release (http://www.bhx.co.uk/page.aspx?type=bEyZftSD20U=&id=VmrgiAt2X44=&article=zWK1nZ3UKPI=), and this is the most recent enws about Flywho. They have previously menioned 767s, and the A310 pics are from this time last year when they were on about A310s.

Anyhow, is it even likely that FlyWho have made any conscious fleet choice at all? With it being (assumingly) an ACMI operation, is it not more of a case of putting out a tender for XXX size aircraft to fly their routes, and the cheapest bidder gets the business?

Call Established

27th Feb 2006, 14:41

Can't understand how it can be an a.c.m.i operation when Flywho have no OL or AOC, unless they pay by the hour then a complete re-charge on the other costs? They still require an AOC / OL to get the rights/flt no's etc ?????

jmc757

27th Feb 2006, 14:44

Sorry, didn't quite mean ACMI, I guess charter would be moer accurate description, after all they are operating with an ATOL.

Thunderball 2

27th Feb 2006, 18:50

Just read through this thread, and I can barely believe it; there doesn't seem to be a single post from the WhoFlu? CEO himself, in any one of his many, many guises (i.e cabin crew who'd love to join, flight deck who wish them well and were impressed at interview, cleaners who admire their offices, barstaff who thought they were well-behaved at the WhoFlu? Christmas Party etc etc). At least he seems to have finally learnt something - ignore Pprune if you want to start an airline, and talk about it when it's real.
As to aircraft type, of course the L1011-500 won't make any sense in the real world. But as anyone knows who has run the numbers, if you dramatically increase the revenue yield per passenger then suddenly lousy, uneconomic aircraft start to look profitable. Remember Birmingham Exec with the 12-seat Jetstream at BA Club-class fares? Problem is that the punters don't tend to read the business plan, and shop around until they find the cheapest price. Of course some products sell on quality, but it can take decades to establish the brand. WhoFlu? Only time will tell......:ok:

GK430

28th Feb 2006, 09:21

http://www.bhx.co.uk/page.aspx?type=bEyZftSD20U=&id=VmrgiAt2X44=&article=zWK1nZ3UKPI=

well written.....:suspect:
..."the world's longest legroom". What does that mean?

CargoOne

28th Feb 2006, 12:44

They would struggle to find L1011 with a
"State-of-the-art individual entertainment systems for every passenger", unless they want to invest into IFE the amount comparable to the price of airframe...

Call Established

28th Feb 2006, 14:24

Cannot this not be the 'hand held' jobbies that some carriers use ???????? instead of a full IFE ?

CargoOne

28th Feb 2006, 14:37

Cannot this not be the 'hand held' jobbies that some carriers use ???????? instead of a full IFE ?

I don't think it is a good idea for a longhaul. Anyway most probably we are just wasting the bandwidth here...

Epsilon minus

28th Feb 2006, 14:57

Will the worlds longest legroom accommodate the worlds longest legs?

Thunderball 2

1st Mar 2006, 21:22

Mogget, I didn't mean that my sarcasm was directed at spotting Tristars. I was being sarcastic because I thought we were discussing airline economics, not spotting. I am enthusiastic about aircraft, and I have nothing whatsoever against spotters. But I derive my satisfaction in this industry from bringing resources together - aircraft, engineers, air crew, ground crew, and clients - and making money by providing a quality product. Not by watching the RAF burn tax-payers money operating VC10s at a fully-allocated hourly cost that is twice that of a B747-400 in airline service.
Now there are ways of making money with old aircraft, but WhoFlu? needs one of those boringly efficient Boeing or Airbus long thin tubes with two engines if it is going to stand any chance whatsoever of making money. :ok:

Fried_Chicken

8th Mar 2006, 00:16

They (Flywho) must have been reading the posts on here, it appears they are now looking at the B767-200 (again, hopefully not the Slovakian one that spent most of it's time on the ground at Brum!)

Time will tell!
FC

bacardi walla

8th Mar 2006, 06:30

.....and next week they'll be talking to Duxford about getting the VC10 airworthy again :eek:

Epsilon minus

8th Mar 2006, 09:13

Have I missed something or have they just got their AOC mail-order?

EI-CFC

8th Mar 2006, 10:52

.....and next week they'll be talking to Duxford about getting the VC10 airworthy again :eek:

Anyone got a 747-100 in their back garden they could loan them for the summer? :p

Evileyes

8th Mar 2006, 11:59

This forum is titled Airlines, Airports, and Routes. It should therefore be self-evident that it is dedicated to professional discussion of Airlines, Airports, and Routes.

There is a forum on PPRuNe called Spectators Balcony (Spotters Corner). It, unlike this one, specifically caters to Spotters. We moderators have neither the time nor the inclination to move spotting posts from here to there so they will be deleted. If one feels their post deserves airing and it's a spotter post then post it over there.

Cheers,
Evileyes

Mogget

8th Mar 2006, 17:11

I disagree that "Airlines, Airports, and Routes" automatically suggests that the thread is dedicated to professional discussion. However, I understand your decision to remove my posts, and will endeavour to stay on the other side of the fence in future.

PPRuNe Pop

8th Mar 2006, 17:47

Mogget.

You can disagree all you want. This forum is for the professional types and snippets that deal with arrival of a particular aircraft should be in Spotters. Like it loathe it that's where it goes.

As my colleague has said we do not have to time or patience to move all the threads that we consider are in the wrong place so they will get deleted.

PPP

Mogget

8th Mar 2006, 21:17

You will also notice that I made it very clear that I understood the decision to remove my posts. Evileyes has been very courteous and respectful in his communication with me regarding this, and that is all that I ask of anyone.

Call Established

8th Mar 2006, 21:52

Lasted rumour from a travel show at the weekend is a B762 with 230 ish seats now.................................................

All change! They must of contracted someone for this flying.....I find it very hard to see how as a Tour Op they are selling for a July start on such a route and have no acft contracted for this ???

EI-CFC

8th Mar 2006, 22:03

A 762 with 230 seats - will that support their advertised layout?

GK430

9th Mar 2006, 18:13

Tuching down Rwy 33 after ILS LLZ only app......
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/OM-NSH-3.jpg

bacardi walla

9th Mar 2006, 18:42

....and there's a sight we won't be seeing :eek:

Who (no pun intended) are the muppets behind this shower :confused:

splash&dash

11th Mar 2006, 14:22

Walla

A part bunch of retired school teachers with virtually no aviation experience! :(

Attended one of their 'Flyblu recruitment forums' some time ago and they were caught with their pants down big time by our ops staff when it came to the questions and answers stage. The Then CEO personally admitted that he knew very little about aviation :oh: (a former school headmaster if i remember?) but thought the idea was a fantastic opportunity that no other airline was doing. Full fare, yards of legroom, massive seats, all the frills etc to well off pax with second homes in Florida.
I can see his dream, out of London maybe? but setting up a new airline is little bit more involved than writing a letter to Jim L Fixit!

Fried_Chicken

12th Mar 2006, 00:19

wan2fly

13th Mar 2006, 19:09

Hey...

Can you translate into English the following......

"Tuching down Rwy 33 after ILS LLZ only app......"

I guess you did this with a little "Cut and Paste" ??

I got excited this was the real thing for a min then!!!.....

Fw - were at the destination show in BHX and above is correct they have a stand at BHX T1 after the re-launch on the BHX website.....

Good luck to them.

Mogget

14th Mar 2006, 08:35

I can see his dream, out of London maybe? but setting up a new airline is little bit more involved than writing a letter to Jim L Fixit!

Didn't I hear that some kid not long out of school set up an airline from his bedroom ?

GK430

14th Mar 2006, 10:11

wan2fly

I meaned Touching.....
There has been no glide path on 33 since about Nov 2004, but I see notam say ILS all restored to Cat 1 now.
It was a bit tongue in cheek about Flywho......the day they make any App to BHX etc.

The photo was that of the "Midland" 767 during training at BHX - & look what happened to that op.

wan2fly

14th Mar 2006, 11:07

You plane spotters speak another language - I am crew and dont use as much jargon as you guys !!!!!!....

Well all this name calling re FW doesn't really get us anywhere, I guess all we can do is wait and see and if it happens then thats fantastic....

However, I bet anyone on here that has posted negative comments, If FW do take to the sky this summer, all the posts will change "Oh they wont last 5minutes etc etc", instead of " WOW we were wrong - Good luck to them"

GK430

14th Mar 2006, 11:52

Well I'm blowed - a "Spotter":{
Haven't underlined a reg in over 30 years now! Prefer to be inside sat on the left myself.

Too long in the teeth to think I'll need to bite the Flywho bullet.

wan2fly

14th Mar 2006, 13:10

Sorry mate - just thought with all the comments above u were one of them !

Gotta say guys I applied to FW as crew and was successful and that was a while ago. They have been nothing but fantastic in keeping touch with us all and updating all staff who have decided to join them - The loyalty staff have shown in FW is great and I hope I get to fly with them all as they are a great bunch of people....Of course many of us have moved on since the initial launch but I for one have remained positive and I do hope that 2006 is FW's year as I will be there.

jmc757

14th Mar 2006, 19:32

Flywho have currently got a 'display' including a few seats/cabin mock up on the 1st floor (opposite Burger King) in T1 at Birmingham. During the day there is a nice young lady there to answer questions & generally "sell" the concept to Joe Public
Fried Chicken

At least its progress, but still the advertising is - well non-existant. Is it safe to make the assumption that the majority of people holidaying to Florida do so as their big holiday for the year? If so, then during the other 50-odd weeks of the year how often will these people pass through BHX?

My point here is although the stand is a nice idea, flyWho just aren't getting their name out there. Where are the press ads, radio spots and billboards? I live 8 miles from BHX and so far have seen nothing. Does no-one find this worrying? How are they going to fill widebody aircraft by July if no-one has heard of them?

wan2fly

15th Mar 2006, 09:46

As I said lets just wait and see eh...

There is no point in been negative until it happens/does not happen......

If it does I will be leaving my current airline and moving over thats for sure.

We all have to take risks at some point.

come on

15th Mar 2006, 22:03

Agree with you jmc757, I've seen the stand in T1 but they'll need more than that and an uninformative website to sell their seats. I'm really surprised they're working with just what appears to be one operator to Florida and a little known one at that. If this venture was seen as a viable proposition the major tour operators to Florida would be queing up to have allocations on their flights. I'm also yet to see any kind of advertising. You'd think the whole BHX area would be awash with it. If it gets off he ground it will be little more than a second rate charter. The whole thing smacks of despiration.

I'm very surpirised at the choice of aircraft (despiration again maybe) and the type of operation. From the beginning flywho have claimed they will be ofering a premium product. Fair enough but let's be honest, knackered old L1011's (great in their day) but their tatty ageing interiors are hardly state of the art and lend themselves to a quality premium product. I can't imagine they (if there is to be more than one aircraft) will have new interiors, just larger seats and a possible flywho respray. The seats will probably not be a new design or made especially for flywho but be ex XYZ airways business or first class seats. The flights will not be operated by flywho crews but by crews (and with all respect to them) that are used to operating packed solid charter flights, where will the flywho ethos be there? Offering a premium service takes more than offering a fancy meal, a hot towel and a bottle of wine. The established UK charter airlines have got their act together and now offer better leg room, an upgraded inflight service and on modern reliable aircraft. The UK/Florida market is huge and there probably is room for another airline but I seriously dought it will be flywho.

want2fly, you're right, we all have to take risks but there are risks and there are risks. I admire your confidence in flywho and all the best to you if you decide to join them.

wan2fly

15th Mar 2006, 22:59

Thanks for reply...

You may be right about the advertising it is a little un-orthodox but if they are selling seats then thats great !

Yeah Im taking a risk - but whats the worst that can happen - I go I join they fold I join another airline - Its not the end of the world....

I think they have a great product and I trust them so as I said previously I will be joining....

To be honest I didn't really see ( or did I miss it ) the advertising for Maxjet and Eos - Maybe they only did it in the SE of UK but as I currently fly out of SE UK I still never saw it...

I think we saw these comments when the above mentioned started and they seem to be doing ok...

Lets just wait and see

PS - FW are no longer operating on a Tristar !!!!!

GK430

16th Mar 2006, 17:55

I saw Maxjet & EOS on BBC News 24 - several times and at Prime times - not bad exposure over here.

Take a look at Ozjet - now ceased on their prime objective. Stoddart tried ex-EAC knackered & noisy 73-200's against new 73 NG's of V.Blue, Qantas and new 320's of Jetstar.

Nobody's going to keep paying premium rates to fly on geriatric jets!

teachin

16th Mar 2006, 19:03

come on

16th Mar 2006, 22:24

Hi want2fly

Thanks for your reply but you can’t compare flywho with Maxjet and Eos, there is absolutely no comparison. These two airlines are scheduled business class airlines offering a high quality product aimed at business travellers. They operate their own aircraft with their own pilots and cabin crew. They both have online reservation systems, seats are bookable and marketed from both ends of the route plus they have added passenger benfits such as airport lounges etc etc. They compete in and market themselves at the corporate end of the market. flywho is simply a name. They are aiming at the leisure market and will operate as a charter. They currently have nothing tangible, an unheard of company (CEO being the same as flywho!!!) is selling their seats and a charter airline will operate their flights. They don’t have an online reservations system, the website advises you to call an 0870 number to book. They are not featured in any tour operators brochures. Ask yourself, would you hand over several hundreds of pounds (possibly thousands) simply from reading the rubbish on their website? I wouldn’t. The whole thing is laughable, as one poster has already said, dreamers.

If I am proved wrong I'll be the first to admit it.

wan2fly

17th Mar 2006, 13:06

Sorry you missed understood me !

I was not comapring the airlines - I was referring to the advertisments....

Did Maxjet not start out as something else then went through name change ? Both Eos and Maxjet have come a long way since the inital launch and I remember several negative comments re these airlines - eg - they wont last, no one want's to fly from STN etc etc look at them now both doing really well.

Remeber that EOS and Maxjet did not always have such a interactive website nor did they start off with lounge access or frequent flyer points - I admit they have got these very quickly but in the begining it was limited..

I subscribe to TTG and only last week in the business traveller mag there was a fantastic article on both these airlines and how they started and where they are going - great news but as above remember all the negatives in the begining.

I know they are not in same league no were near as FW are not a business class airline nor are they aiming for business pax its purely leisure...

I do wish they would make some major announcements soon tho I gotta say its very frustrating.

Lets hang on eh ?

bacardi walla

17th Mar 2006, 13:16

Lets hang on eh ?

Hang on for what exactly :confused: Has anyone asked if they have route licences even ??? Lets face it, FLYWHO won't get off the ground.

wan2fly

17th Mar 2006, 13:17

This will not happen. I have an "inside" friend who did some time with them in 04, she was bemused by the lack of urgency, the lack of a reservation system, they were literally using a bar chart for bookings.
They were more interested in the colour of the blankets on board than actually getting an aircraft sorted out or even an AOC.
Pie in the sky dreams, many relaunches and renamed about 5 times. A joke.

I wondered when we would get another "INSIDE" knowledge post havnt had one for ages - 04 was quite a while ago and things have change - Your "FRIEND" hasnt seen recent changes good nor bad - I feel your post is a little dated. Get a new "FRIEND" and post something worthwhile or at least up to date....

Forgive me if I come across rude I dont mean too but what was the point in your post.

wan2fly

17th Mar 2006, 13:24

Hang on for what exactly :confused: Has anyone asked if they have route licences even ??? Lets face it, FLYWHO won't get off the ground.

mmmmmm - Did you get knocked back at an interview by FW or sumthin - you have been nothing but negative and very vocal - Is there a story behind your feelings for FW - I feel there is ....PLEASE share with us all ! ;)

Epsilon minus

17th Mar 2006, 13:38

bacardi walla

17th Mar 2006, 14:51

mmmmmm - Did you get knocked back at an interview by FW or sumthin - you have been nothing but negative and very vocal - Is there a story behind your feelings for FW - I feel there is ....PLEASE share with us all ! ;)

I have no desire to work for such an outfit, never applied to them, never even considered it. They produce no sign of confidence in anything they do. With respect, try answering the questions posed before slagging off peoples opinions.

You on the other hand are showing signs of someone who has applied, been promised something and are "hanging in there". I respect that if its the case, but if I were you, look for something else !

I find it laughable that the mods keep the FLYWHO thread running when it is clearly a waste of time. When they receive an AOC, a route licence, an aircraft even, then maybe open a thread which will be worthwhile looking at.

wan2fly

17th Mar 2006, 15:38

bacardi walla

17th Mar 2006, 15:41

Why do you keep on posting on here if you feel the post should be closed???
You are one of the most frequent posters on the this site !!! - Strange that !.
I am currently employed by a major airline and fly out of LHR and I actually love my job - so i wont be looking for anything else unless FW takes off - If it does Ill be there if it doesnt ill stay where I am.

with respect, I was merely answering your question Is there a story behind your feelings for FW - I feel there is ....PLEASE share with us all and there is no story. Good night and good luck, I suggest you stay with your major airline at LHR.

wan2fly

17th Mar 2006, 15:49

w2f
Your being over protective and I'm not sure why. You must learn to respective the views of others that post here irrespective of whether you agree with them or not. Please remember that many that post here are senior and respected commercial aviation managers/pilots and therefore in the know (some anyway).
I hope it works out for you and the that FW makes it into the air. However I doubt it will and therefore you should be cautious with regards to safeguarding your employment future.
EM
A tad patronising your post - but your welcome to your veiws..
I wouldnt say im been over protective just that no one seems to want this airline to start or continue and most on here seem to damn the operation even before it starts - dont get me wrong I have been here from the start and I have been dissapointed with the set backs up to now... I feel that they deserve a chance.
I have been in travel industry for a long time and I feel i have a decent grasp on the industry - I do respect peoples views senior management or not.
As I have said before we dont get anywhere in life without taking a few risks and I feel sorry for those that "Play it safe" 100% of the time - I have not entered this lightly and you dont need to tell me to be cautious my friend I already know that...
Thanks for your feedback and I appologise if I have offended anyone it really is not my intention.
Thanks.

TSR2

17th Mar 2006, 17:27

Evileyes

17th Mar 2006, 17:52

Snipers put your weapons on safe and move off the firing line. Attack the topic not each other please.

Epsilon minus

17th Mar 2006, 18:07

W2F
No; not patronising, more avuncular. If you work for a major player at LHR I would hazard a guess that it is a low payer, say BMI for example, which may well prompt you to consider a move to such a risky and to date noexistant venture.
I reiterate that as you are not on the FW payrole there really is little need to be defensive about their future; to date they haven't got one.
Now as for your comments about risk taking in aviation, you clearly no nothing of the workings of the CPG, they are risk averse which has a lot to do with the stand off between the CPG and FW's boss and a lot to do with why they are not flying people to Florida right now.

teachin

17th Mar 2006, 18:16

My friend went to work for them a year or more ago, I went to visit her and help, what a shambles, I am not surprised she went and they should all go and play at stewardesses somewhere else.

Thunderball 2

17th Mar 2006, 19:32

You, wan2Fly, are Mr Aden Murcutt, CEO of WhoFlu?, here is my copy of The Daily Mirror, and I claim my five pounds.

[I'd lay £1,000 at 50:1 on that I'm right).

wan2fly

18th Mar 2006, 10:02

At 16.38 you posted "I am currently employed by a major airline and fly out of Heathrow "
At 16.49 you posted " - don't get me wrong I have been here from the start and I have been dissapointed with the set backs up to now."
Am I missing something or are these two posts contradictory.

I applied to FW right at the begining of the initial launch and I have since moved airlines and now fly out of LHR - Hence I have been interested/wanted to work for FW since the begining...

wan2fly

18th Mar 2006, 10:05

You, wan2Fly, are Mr Aden Murcutt, CEO of WhoFlu?, here is my copy of The Daily Mirror, and I claim my five pounds.
[I'd lay £1,000 at 50:1 on that I'm right).

Im actually sat here laughing at that - I really wish I was Mr M - No I am a mere crew member flying at the mo - I just think FW have a great product.

I would deffo meet you my friend as you wil see that im not and bring that 1000.00 with you and i will gladly take it from you.

wan2fly

18th Mar 2006, 10:11

Further to your post....

Thanks for reply - I dont work for a lower paid airline I fly Long Haul only I get a good salary work for a national airline. However I feel FW have a great product to offer. I beleive in their ethos and its as simple as.

No matter how many posts we put on PPRUNE good or bad negative or positive we will just have to wait and see what happens, after all its not that long to wait is it?.

come on

18th Mar 2006, 12:30

Want2fly, I think the problem some posters have, myself included, with the whole flywho thing is basically, taking it seriously. Many of the people here using these forums are in senior positions. With those positions comes the responsibility of making decissions that effect the performance of their company and ultimately peoples jobs. I have been in your position, I was cabin crew for many many years, I had a great time, loved every minute of it. The last thing I was intersted in was the performance of the company, more like who's room the room party down route was in!!! Nothing wrong with that, make the most of it. However, in your position as cabin crew you are possibly unaware of what is required to set up an airline and only see the end result. I understand and appreciate that but some of the negative posts here have been from people that run very succesful businesses and find it difficult not to comment as flywho to date have proved themselves to be unprofessional and somewhat of a joke in the industry.

I know you were successful in getting a position with flywho, well done.They obviously impressed you during the interview and you liked their product. Your confidence in them is admirable but from a business point of view (which so far is the only way they can be judged as they have not taken off so we can't try the product), they have an appauling track record and have found it difficult to attract investors. This speaks volumes so the onboard product means zero.

Thunderball 2

18th Mar 2006, 13:23

Well said.

EI-CFC

18th Mar 2006, 15:46

we will just have to wait and see what happens, after all its not that long to wait is it?.

I think the problem is people are getting fed up of waiting and seeing - after all, how long has it been since Flyblu/who was announced, and how much has happened? A long time, and very little.

Iconic

27th Mar 2006, 11:36

I have it on good authority the uptake on bookings has been incredibly good. After a great deal of if's but's why's and when's, the blue butterfly will at long last be taking to the skies!:D :D

Epsilon minus

27th Mar 2006, 12:05

Well done Iconic
Will you be taking to the skies with your own AOC or ATOL ?

Looooong haul

27th Mar 2006, 12:57

I think there will be a lot of egg on peoples faces come end of summer 2005.
:rolleyes:

Iconic

28th Mar 2006, 06:51

Dear Epsilon,
Careful, I dont want you being one of those having to wipe copious amounts of egg away!;)
Some things are obviously very sensative, but they would really not be at the point they are now without all the necessary parts of the machine in place. Think about it!!

come on

28th Mar 2006, 07:03

Iconic

If we were talking about any other venture I would agree with you but we are talking about flywho..............think about it!!!

Epsilon minus

28th Mar 2006, 18:08

Iconic
Interesting, so AOC it is then. Must have a word with your FOI. Good luck?

Call Established

29th Mar 2006, 07:19

Well if they are taking all these bookings, perhaps they would be so kind as to release "WHO'S" AOC and "WHO'S" AIRCRAFT they will be using, be nice for the fare paying passengers to know "WHO" they are flying with because at the moment its fly "WHO - KNOWS WHAT ON AND WHO WITH"

Call Established

3rd Apr 2006, 21:34

Any news on these guys - definate start date, acft type etc..... ?

Justonemorebeer..hic

20th Apr 2006, 17:04

Anybody heard yet who will be operating the flights for them. The website is still giving July as the start date.

teachin

20th Apr 2006, 17:31

I just got an email, like a spam from them saying its starting in July, so I went and looked, is it a picture of an Airbus, yet you search to find details of fleet and unless I am missing something, looks like a lot of "artists impressions". They don't list a fleet.

Here we go again, non-starter again?

Justonemorebeer..hic

20th Apr 2006, 17:34

I don't think they have an AOC therefore won't have a fleet. They must be planning to use someone else to operate the flights....but who?

come on

20th Apr 2006, 18:00

Their website states Saturday 8th July as being the 1st flight BHX/SFB but still no news of who the operator will be.

Thunderball 2

20th Apr 2006, 20:08

Yes, the frustration of not knowing who the operator will be is unbearable, and only matched in intensity by the excitement of their imminent launch.:{:yuk:

tristar500

20th Apr 2006, 20:17

Was at BHX 22nd Mar 06 and there was a full display stand, manned by staff in uniform promoting this new venture.

Nothing wrong with the L1011. Yes its a bit old, but its still a very reliable and hardworking aircraft, capable of medium and longhaul ops, and loved by pax and crew alike.

come on

20th Apr 2006, 20:31

Yes, I agree, nothing wrong with the L1011, in their day and for current charter work. My comment is though that these aircraft around now are old, tired and very shabby looking. Giving them an exterior spray job in flywho livery is one thing. The cost of replacing interior, panels, bulkheads, toilets etc etc will cost a fortune and I'm sure will be quite out of the question for a new start up. As flywho are pitching themselves (allegedley) as a premium product, it will take more than installing a few larger seats to transorm the interior of these aircraft. If they do go with the L1011 (or for that matter any other aircraft type from a charter) then I imagine the cost of replacing the charter economy seats with the flywho larger type will be met by flywho. These can then be removed at the end of the contract and retained by flywho. Removing a refitted interior though would be somewhat more difficult.

Centre cities

20th Apr 2006, 20:53

Just a thought. A Scottish airline just venturing into long haul has an advert in a well known publication for a senior crewing position. It mentions a base in the Midlands and they do not have one. Who knows, certainly not me.( excuse the pun)

Centre cities

qwerty2

25th Apr 2006, 09:59

I've just checked the air fares...what a joke.
With overcapacity on UK-Florida routes this year these guys need a reality check :bored:
Why has aviation always been stuffed with bull****ting dream merchants.

Thunderball 2

25th Apr 2006, 11:26

qwerty2,
I checked the prices too when the e-mail from Aden "East of Suez" Murcutt came round, and the prices seemed to me to be in the same ballpark as the competition, cheaper in July, and a little more expensive in August.

(Or maybe the WhoFlu? prices were one-way).

AMM626

26th Apr 2006, 10:47

Looks like it's back to the original 767 again according to a press release on the BHX website:

The new flights will launch on Saturday 8th July, offering three non-stop services – Orlando-Sanford each Tuesday and Saturday, and St Petersburg-Tampa Bay each Thursday.

Heffer

26th Apr 2006, 11:38

Looks like it's back to the original 767 again, press release on the BHX website:

The new flights will launch on Saturday 8th July, offering three non-stop services – Orlando-Sanford each Tuesday and Saturday, and St Petersburg-Tampa Bay each Thursday.
.

Is this to be year round and whats the plan for the aircraft the other four days in the week?

Call Established

26th Apr 2006, 11:54

Perhaps people will be more 'snappy' to book if he would be so kind as to inform his customers who they will be flying with !

firstforfirstchoice

26th Apr 2006, 13:58

I think the B767 is the right aircraft to start operations with, less chance of the aircraft going tech.

Does anyone yet know where this B767 is been sourced from and whether is is a 200 series, or a 300 series??

Cheers.

HZ123

26th Apr 2006, 14:30

Cannot agree it is bound to be an elderly 67 and surely this is a route that is over subscribed and returns little enough yield at the moment. I doubt it last into next year?

Iconic

4th May 2006, 09:27

oooh, do I spy an atol!!!! ;)

Like I say egg on faces!:E :E

wan2fly

4th May 2006, 11:19

I cant beleive not one of the "planespotters - company directors - airline guru's" OR whoever they are have not noticed this yet - its been on for a few days now !!!!!.....

Thunderball 2

4th May 2006, 11:23

Thanks, Aden, I'll have a look.

Airline Company Director

wan2fly

4th May 2006, 11:28

Hi

Thanks for the compliment - deffo not Aden - wish I was !!..

Read further up the posts and you will see we have all had this conversation! I do feel the man in question is a tad busy to post on here at the mo.

Someone bet £1000.00 that I was Aden - I will gladly meet you and take another grand if you wish.

I simply just beleive in FW.

Thunderball 2

4th May 2006, 11:29

Yep, okay Ade, got the message.

wan2fly

4th May 2006, 11:33

Well offer is there :E

LGWAlan

4th May 2006, 12:21

They may well have an ATOL advertised on their website - but the number given is licensed only for 1501 fully bonded passengers - nowhere near enough for the number of pax I assume they hope to carry!

come on

4th May 2006, 18:21

LGWAlan, agree with you, also nowhere near enough to cover the launch costs or future operating costs. I imagine they've gone for a very low bonded number in case is doesn't work out and they won't have spent money on a large atol bond. The majority of clients will have paid by credit card, many card issuers include insurance to cover airline bankruptcy (which I'm sure flywho are aware of and counting on!!!)
want2fly, I assume your remark - "I cant beleive not one of the "planespotters - company directors - airline guru's" is aimed at me and others that have difficulty supporting flywho. I base my comments on what in my view makes good business sense, based on actual facts as they are known (or not know in flywho's case), not on a notion of a cabin service that has been presented to me at an interview.

wan2fly

4th May 2006, 22:10

Oh please - how long did it take you to think that little ditty up !!!

Lets face it mate - you and your cronnies have never had anything good to say and whatever positive news come from this or any other start up carrier you just trash it !!. No Doubt if the FW ATOL was for 50,000 you would have someting negative to say about that too - they cant win really with you all can they ?

I really do hope it takes off ( but then if it does you will say it wont last !) I would love to welcome you on board and have a conversation about it.

For your info by the way - FW have been in constant contact with all employees throughout its start up - Given every bit of info possible on whas happening next and you may be surprised to hear that it was not all about how to serve a meal or give a hot towel out.

Your all full of opinions and I dont doubt you know something about aviation but "gees" - its so boring - negative negative negative. If its so easy to start an airline where is yours?.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but repeating the same one is tiresome.

come on

5th May 2006, 11:13

Hey, it's not worth falling out over this, we are simply looking at it from different angles, lets try to respect each others point of view.

Could you advise though, the employees you refer to being kept up to date, are they the one's currently working for the company or the one's that were successful in being offered positions last year or the year before but have yet to be employed by flywho? If it is the later, they are not employees as they are not on the payrole or hold flywho contracts. If you are being kept up to date with developments, would you be in a position to advise the operator of the aircraft and the type? It's now around 2 months before the first flight is due to operate and I would imagine this has been agreed with an ACMI operator.

As I've said before, I admire your confidence in flywho and I sincerely hope they are successful, if they are I will be the first to accept the I told you so comments.

Epsilon minus

5th May 2006, 20:28

Let's face it, with a stupid name like FLY WHO it's hardly going to inspire future punters.
They have a choice
British Airways
Virgin Atlantic
Fly Who ???
Which one would you choose.

Centre cities

6th May 2006, 22:03

Epsilon minus

That would depend on service, cost and if you want to travel up the M6 or down the M40 to catch a flight or pop to your local airport. Now if Virgin or BA offered a service from BHX or NEMA that would be different but that is not going to happen is it.

Centre cities

come on

6th May 2006, 22:05

I don't think the name is an issue, there are several examples of airline names that don't really sound as though they have any connection with the airline industry -

First Choice
My Travel
Thomsonfly
Virgin

All well known names and brands now but that wasn't always the case.

The trend for several years now has been for the marketing guys and image makers to come up with a name that is trendy, funky and sexy. In the right hands the flywho name could become as well known as any of the above!!!

Thunderball 2

7th May 2006, 00:30

Come on, come on.
Of course brand names don't have to be self-explanatory in terms of the business they relate to. eBay, Nike, Oracle, Google, the list is literally endless.
But that doesn't make FlyWho okay. Oh no. The problem with FlyWho is not that it has no meaning, it's the precise opposite - namely that it has a weird and unhelpful meaning:confused:. "FlyWho" is a question, and therefore the wrong part of speech for such a name - it conveys uncertainty:confused: :confused: . Unconvinced? Okay, how does "Atlantic Who" or "EasyWho" sound to you? Crazy? Yep, big time barmy in fact. Is FlyWho any different? Nope. I rest my case.:yuk:

come on

7th May 2006, 08:07

Thunderball, understand totally where you're coming from. However, with clever and targeted marketing the flywho name (however meaningless) could be it's unique selling point.

Take Virgin for example. Prior to RB setting up his empire the word had a totally different meaning. The word (once regarded as one you wouldn't say too loudly) is now associated with quality, innovation, fashion and glamour. Thomsonfly......Thomson, thats the name of my local telephone directory, doesn't sound remotely exciting! My Travel, sounds like a folder in the in box of my computer!! Do any of these names have any kind of meaning?

My original point was that with clever marketing aimed at your target audience, you can sell anything to anyone. Get that right and you're onto a winner, the word flywho could be the new buzzword. As you've already said, the word is a question, by saying the name/word it stimulates interest and curiosity and with the right marketing, a sale. It doesn't convey uncertainty to me in itself however given the background of flywho so far, enough said!

wan2fly

7th May 2006, 09:57

Come On - Am I reading this correctly - you have actually said something positive !!!! ha ha ?

Seriously tho - The Flywho name is rather unusual and when I found out what it had changed from and to I was like errrrrrr thats a bit strange - However when I heard the marketing and thought behind it I have grown to like it - EG - Who gives you the best leg room - Who flies direct from BHX etc etc - this is not only a question but also a statement - so yeah I think its quite clever - it does take a little time to grow on you tho.

In answer to your question above re - who is operating routes etc - Im afraid I cant tell you just yet - not that I dont know but FW have asked crew not to mention anything and I will respect that. The aircraft type is 762.

What I will say is that the crew are a great bunch of people and everyone of us believe in the FW product - Im really excited about it and yeah this is the biggest risk I have taken. I dont usually take risks Im more of a play it safe person - but nothin ventured nothin gained eh??.

Im working my notice with my current airline.

come on

7th May 2006, 11:08

Yes, how about that eh!!! Seriously, I don't think I've been negative, just putting my opinion forward and from my point of view which is different to yours. That's what makes for a good debate!!

Hope it all goes well and good luck.

ManchesterMan

7th May 2006, 13:31

Is it me or is the name of this start-up airline slightly
daft???I know that names should not put you off but
who the hell thought that 'Flywho' was a catchy
name?They must have paid at least a fiver for that
one!!

MM

bacardi walla

7th May 2006, 13:48

FLYWHO - laugh my ass off. Bring back NOW, all is forgiven :uhoh: At least they stood a chance of getting airborne at one point !!

marlowe

7th May 2006, 14:01

So its May any chance that FlyWho are actually going to fly this June? Do they have an aircraft really? or are these people that are working notices at the moment to join them really making a big mistake! Worked with a crewmember last week who has a "job" with them well actually had a job with them last 2 years, she is going to give up a full time contract and thinks that FlyWho are the future!!!!!! is she being naive or are they really going to happen this year?

ManchesterMan

7th May 2006, 14:32

Marlowe

Had she been drinking?

MM

Epsilon minus

7th May 2006, 14:52

Fly Who is a stupid name, on a Gerald Ratner scale of commercial suicide, I'd give it 8. Crash Airways getting a 10.

Fly Who is a question of uncertainty and given the Fly Blu to Who history, is quite apt.
Clever marketing may overcome this silly self induced obstacle but at what cost?

Some other equally daft names for an airline:
Fly Maybe
Fly Possibly
Dodgy Air
Fly Soon
the list is endless
EM

bacardi walla

7th May 2006, 15:10

FlybyNight Tours
FlyNever
WhoRthey Airways
Start
FlyAway
Stop

:eek:

ManchesterMan

7th May 2006, 15:28

Names cont'd...

How about the following:

Flysometime/maybe?

Flymetothemoon....

Have 'Flywho' got any money to spend on
marketing? - when are they going to spend it -
perhaps they cant spend what they hav'nt got!!

Perhaps like that minute popster named squiggle
or Prince they could be re-named .......

???????

MM

bacardi walla

7th May 2006, 15:52

Just like FlyWho,
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/andy757/seenme2.jpg you ain't seen me, right ?

jmc757

8th May 2006, 10:54

FlyWHO is a very appropriate name at the moment. Reason being that if you book a ticket with them you haven't got a clue WHO you will actually be flying with! Either:

1) FlyWHO have appointed a carrier to operate the flights but are not telling anyone WHO it is. Can't see why they would do this, its no benefit to anyone, if anything announcing WHO the operating airline is would only increase their credibility.

2) FlyWHO are yet to appoint a carrier. Considering we're approaching mid May and they fly in July then this scenario would be very worrying.

I wouldn't hand over any of my hard earned cash until they tell me who's aircraft I'll be sitting in.

Epsilon minus

8th May 2006, 14:23

I can find no reference of this company on the CAA ATOL data base. Can someone give me a pointer please.

Cyrano

8th May 2006, 15:00

I can find no reference of this company on the CAA ATOL data base. Can someone give me a pointer please.

Go to the flywho website.
Click on the ATOL logo on the bottom left.
This brings you to the relevant page of the CAA site (the ATOL is in the name of "Go Visit Ltd").

Is that what you wanted?

Epsilon minus

8th May 2006, 16:53

Thank you. This is not a full ATOL. Interesting though, when Go Visit Ltd is entered into the search engine, the first response is this

CAA Visits Birmingham To Warn Of DIY Holiday Dangers
Date: 01 March 2006

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) will be at the Destinations 2006 Holiday Show at the Birmingham NEC this weekend to highlight how holidaymakers can make sure their next overseas trip doesn’t end in financial disaster.

The show is being held from Friday 3 March to Sunday 5 March. CAA representatives will be on hand to explain protection arrangements and give advice. In order to draw attention to the benefits of ATOL (Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing), visitors to the stand can enter a protection competition with the chance of winning £1000 towards their next ATOL-protected holiday.

The CAA manages the ATOL protection scheme, which licences UK companies to sell holidays involving air travel. ATOL is the UK's biggest holiday protection scheme, covering over 27 million people each year. It ensures that, if a tour operator goes out of business, arrangements will be made for holidaymakers to complete their holiday and return home, whilst those with forward bookings will be refunded.

In recent years there has been a huge rise in the number of people booking "DIY holidays", where holidaymakers plan and put together their own packages. Increasing on-line availability of flights, particularly on low cost carriers, and accommodation has stimulated this rise. In 2005, a total of 2,252,729 people travelled with low cost operators from airports in the Midlands*, a 21% per cent increase on 2004, and many would have booked separate holiday accommodation. However, despite what many air travellers believe, these holidays are not ATOL-protected.

Booking on-line with different suppliers may seem the cheaper option, but if an airline stopped flying, holidaymakers might pay considerably more to get another flight home and might even have to cut short their holiday. Those yet to travel could have difficulties getting to hotels or villas which they have already paid for, and last minute alternative flights could be expensive and fly at different times to the ones originally booked.

In the year to March 2005, the ATOL scheme rescued or refunded over 32,000 holidaymakers and paid out almost £10.2 million to those on ATOL-bonded holidays. In the past 19 years, the scheme has rescued over 200,000 people from being stranded and refunded over one million others to the value of £175 million.

David Clover added: “We want to emphasise that travellers who build their own holiday by booking flights and accommodation with different holiday companies will not be ATOL-protected.

”We believe consumers should be aware of the potential risks so that they can make an informed choice. The danger with DIY holidays is that if one element fails they could lose their entire holiday and if their airline goes bust, they could be stranded abroad and have to pay to get home. ATOL provides total peace of mind and people should look for the ATOL-protected logo when booking. Otherwise they should consider taking their own financial protection measures, such as insurance policies that cover against insolvency.”

WOD-DET-DVR

17th May 2006, 13:11

It seems that they have no aircraft at present . A name change might be appropriate.

Kenny Lingus

17th May 2006, 20:17

I have a feeling you all will be surprised!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:cool:

Buster the Bear

17th May 2006, 21:13

They just need a few punters willing to pay for this level of service from the Midlands?

Thunderball 2

17th May 2006, 23:48

About a dozen exclamation marks is pretty excessive, even by ****Who's standards. I think the fellow's genuinely excited, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that on this one occasion he's actually got something to be excited about. So what is the storyWho?

Well, maybe he's pulled a real flanker...however bizarre, any chance that he's done a deal with Delta? I know they were trying to place B767 capacity a little while back. There is a precedent. American ran a wet-leased MD11 for USAfrica a few years back. Lasted about three months, I recall.

Edit: Please do not name names. It is disrespectful and against the rules of PPRuNe PPP

UFGBOY

22nd May 2006, 22:18

Friend of mine has accepted place PSR course to start 05 June...........

come on

22nd May 2006, 22:24

I'm still not convinced but we'll see.

marlowe

23rd May 2006, 08:55

Rumour around BHX last coupla days is that its now 747 airframe that nonflywho are going to use all getting very close to another year of hype.

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

23rd May 2006, 09:50

Would that not have a weight penalty out of BHX unless they have so few pax it doesn`t matter

G-I-B

splash&dash

23rd May 2006, 10:58

not just a weight penalty but also a noise one! im not sure of their arrival / departure times but if its not daylight hours the locals will soon be complaining with a 747 thundering overhead! :bored: similar problems happed when PIA and ATLAS ( Jaguar car engines ) were using 747s in the past.

PPRuNe Pop

23rd May 2006, 20:35

Little note for your perusal.

Naming names on PPRuNe is a no no! Two posts have got the mod treatment as a result. Further mod treatment you would NOT like so please keep to the rules.

PPP

Epsilon minus

25th May 2006, 12:08

The following is a quote from the web site.
Is my booking protected with ABTA or something?
Airlines do not protect their customer with an ATOL bond or any similar arrangement as they are not required to do so by the CAA. However, anxious to extend extra comfort for anyone who intends to flywho, we have made arrangements for all tickets to be handled by ATOL bonded agents and tour operators. This will ensure that all passengers are able to book with absolute confidence that their money is secure.
? Only the one customer ? Seeing as their ATOL is too small and they don't have an AOC, whose ATOL will they be using and can they do that? Wonder if Flyjet will be providing the lift? They've got a B767 hanging around doing nothing for a week :\

bradfordboy

6th Jun 2006, 13:06

Just been looking again at their web site. Previously it was showing the first flight on the 8th July. The date now showing is the 29th July.
Can't imagine that the first three weeks flights are fully booked. Anyone heard anything else from these people?

OltonPete

6th Jun 2006, 21:48

Word on a BHX forum is still no craft and at the moment no rumours
of one. I will ask to see if it has been put back again.

OltonPete

OltonPete

6th Jun 2006, 22:40

It seems that 29/7/06 is the "new" planned first flight.
Press release shows 8/7/06 with no further update.
I won't say anymore but I am sure others will ;)
OltonPete

ua100

7th Jun 2006, 00:15

:confused: i dont know whether this bit of info is any good or of any use but i know of some cabin crew that are leaving another low cost airline local to bhx to be employed by flywho at the beginning of July:hmm:

come on

8th Jun 2006, 16:14

Does anyone have any info as to why the first flight has been put back to 28th July?

marlowe

8th Jun 2006, 18:05

Well cabin crew i flew with this week who are leaving my company for Flywho are saying they have been told its a 767 ,training was supposed to start last week for the initial crew i did hear a rumour that that did not happen though!!!!

come on

8th Jun 2006, 18:46

Mmmm I guess it's not unusual for this to happen with a start up carrier.

Saxon Ops

8th Jun 2006, 23:37

I think this is the same team who attempted to start up as FlyBlu about two years ago to op B767 BHX-FLL. The name was challenged by another airline - JetBlue, I think. Hence a similar name to original one.

Good luck to them!

marlowe

10th Jun 2006, 06:52

Doesnt need luck it needs a miracle!!!!!

bazzab68

28th Jun 2006, 06:15

saga holidays who took up seats on the paper airline Flywho have now begun re-booking pax through other airlines from other airports. This is obviously not very good for the prospects of Flywho. The saga goes on!!!!!!!!!!!:( :(

bacardi walla

28th Jun 2006, 07:42

and what a SAGA this has turned out to be :ugh:

come on

28th Jun 2006, 07:56

Are Saga rebooking their clients just for the cancelled flights at the beginning of July or for the duration of their allocation?

If it is for the whole allocation it would be bad news for flywho as Saga clients (over 50's, high disposable income, retired etc etc) would be their ideal target.

bazzab68

28th Jun 2006, 07:59

bazzab68

28th Jun 2006, 08:02

duration as far as i know, know people who have been rebooked via gatwick with northwest and not travelling till late august

come on

28th Jun 2006, 08:17

There could be several reasons for the re-routing, the best scenario for flywho would be over-booking!!!

Anyone know of the aircraft type yet?

30W

28th Jun 2006, 08:50

There could be several reasons for the re-routing, the best scenario for flywho would be over-booking!!!

Anyone know of the aircraft type yet?

You're either extremely naive of this industry, or else drinking something stronger than I've ever been able to find....

Those of us who have been operational in this industry for many years have been saying for MANY months that this operation would not start. (Many of us have worked for failed airlines/ new startups etc). This has generally been denounced by many of the 'spotter' types amongst the forums.

I would personally love to see lots more longhaul on offer from BHX, but MANY parts of this operation have never stacked up, immediately obvious to those that have seen similar failures over the years.

For the sake of those who's heads were 'in the sky' on this project, understand this, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN - got the message now?

30W

bradfordboy

28th Jun 2006, 09:18

I can't believe that an organisation like Saga books people on to what some folk describe as a paper airline. Having myself been qualified to join Saga for many years on account of my age and senility I did assume that the organisation was actually run by people who didn't suffer from those same problems.

I did actually speak to someone the other day who was booked on one of the earliest flights to Florida. She had been offered a later flight with a 50% discount and an assurance that an aircraft of some description would be arriving a few days before the new departure date.

To be serious I can't believe anyone or any organisation is daft enough to book with such an organisation without seeing something actually flying.

come on

28th Jun 2006, 09:45

30W
I am neither naive or as you imply, have a drink problem!
I have no reason to confirm my suitability to comment on this topic, only to say, having working for many many years within the airline industry and now a very successful aviation related business and I think I have an idea of what I'm talking about. My postings are based on experience and business sense. I'll agree my remark was flipant, it was meant tongue in cheek, you know, suggesting flywho had filled their flights, think about it.
If you read my previous posts on the subject you'll see I've been no fan of flywho from the beginning. However, being constantly negative and making statements like " IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN - got the message now" is childish.

Centre cities

28th Jun 2006, 16:33

The supposed start was early July and is now supposed to be late July.

Does the re booking cover this period or is it all the bookings.

Still dosnt look good does it.

Centre cities

30W

30th Jun 2006, 08:54

I am neither naive or as you imply, have a drink problem!

Also meant tongue in cheek.

If you read my previous posts on the subject you'll see I've been no fan of flywho from the beginning.

Accepted, I haven't trawled back through the thread analysing every single contributors direct comments. I have however followed the thread from it's beginning, and it has been full of hopefulls.

However, being constantly negative and making statements like " IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN - got the message now" is childish.

Not necessarily you, but again I reitterate, this thread has been full of dreamers, living a fantasy of this wonderfull new airline. At somepoint reality, rather than fantasy has to take over - I'm simply putting that view across. I'm afraid whilst there is some scope for the situation changing, there always is, there is no point for ever saying " there there, yes , it'll be alright in the end......". Life, as we know, simply isn't like that. Some people, have fallen foul of this ill fated airline, others still hang on to 'hope'. I believe, like it or not, that those people deserve a wake up call, ehich is waht I was trying to achieve. I actually find those who can't face that reality, or see through the smokescreen of it all the childish ones.

In short, no direct slur on yourself intended, but rather a strong message to all the 'dreamers' on here......

30W

come on

30th Jun 2006, 10:03

Totally agree with your comments. I think those here that are supporting this venture don't really have a grasp of the realities.

Is there any news on the aircraft type yet?

Thunderball 2

30th Jun 2006, 10:04

30W, you say that this thread has been "full of dreamers", and superficially this would appear to be the case. But in reality it's only the WhoFlu? people themselves who will have been posting this trash, and their predeliction for posting to Prune probably explains why they're apparently in such a dire state. That's my view, anyway, and if you doubt it just read some of the posts from the people who claim to be unconnected to the project but "just believe in FlyWho". They're kidding only themselves as far as I'm concerned.

bradfordboy

30th Jun 2006, 10:05

Its a paper one. They are still working on the folds:) :)

marlowe

1st Jul 2006, 07:33

So what is the latest on FLYWHEN? have they an airframe yet?

bazzab68

1st Jul 2006, 10:00

-28 days and no a/c. realism must be hitting the airline now on what a big task they have undertook, I really hoped that this venture took- off but unfortunately like all the rumours of transatlantic carriers out off bhx, doesnot look like it will take place. Shame but we will survive with another duplicated route by flybe or lingus. :rolleyes:

come on

2nd Jul 2006, 09:49

If it works, and by that I mean continues to operate, not just for a few months (until investors money runs out) then they will have pulled off one hell of a coup! Almost no advertising, relying on a pretty basic website for sales, negative press and umpteen cancelled starts.

come on

3rd Jul 2006, 10:05

Just heard the aircraft won't be arriving until Sept and cabin crew training courses postponed, booked pax being re-booked with althernative carriers.

jethro15

3rd Jul 2006, 10:25

Just heard the aircraft won't be arriving until Sept.
I presume you now know where from then?

come on

3rd Jul 2006, 10:54

No (don't think they do either), just know someone at BHX.

FlyboyUK

3rd Jul 2006, 14:51

Apparently they have bought (for cash) an ex TAP A310 :eek:

jabird

3rd Jul 2006, 21:11

Have been trying to play devil's advocate and think of a reason why this venture just might get off the ground.

Going back to the names issue, how far off is Flywho, compared to Flybe? That could have been ridiculed as Flynottobe, Flywas etc, but it has survived and prospered - albeit with a little bit more of a track record behind them, the resources to grow and a slightly better understanding of the concept of niche marketing.

Would anyone question the wisdom of calling a a band "The Who?"

Then again, just before they go into the studio to record a "Who are You - We're Fly Who" jingle, I think most punters know which of their tracks is most appropriate to this sorry saga.

Centre cities

3rd Jul 2006, 22:51

A dealy of 1 year unfortunate, 2 years a little more unfortunate but another delay....well fill it in yourself.

Especially as if memory serves me correct that the CEO said something like we are not releasing any details till things are definate.

I would not have thought that the winter was the best time to start unless it is Fort Lauderdale for the cruise market.

Centre cities

Thunderball 2

3rd Jul 2006, 23:53

In fact they've paid cash for the XB70 prototype from the Smithsonian, which is currently at Groom Lake having cryogenic boosters fitted to enable it to take the entire WhoFlu management team to Mars, where apparently the Financial Fitness requirements for start-ups are more lenient.

bazzab68

10th Jul 2006, 07:19

another week goes by, still no clearer, have they or havn't they got an a/c, will they operate in 2 and a half weeks yes it is getting that close.

nothing new on the website and nothing from the airport, seems everyone has shut up shop. maybe permanently.:ugh:

I really hope it gets of the ground but the longer it goes on I cannot see it.

come on

10th Jul 2006, 07:31

I believe their aircraft won't be arriving until Sept.

Booked customers for the cancelled departures are being re-booked with alternative carriers.

I think there's no mention of any difficulty with the launch on the website so as not to deter any future customers.

bazzab68

10th Jul 2006, 07:43

i doubt it will arrive ever to be honest, this company has had 2 years to sort out a plane and yet they leave it til now.

come on

10th Jul 2006, 07:52

You could be right.

I have a feeling though that there will be a launch (eventually) but they will sadly not operate for long. A whole host of things will be blamed for the failure, apart from of course, the obvious.

bradfordboy

10th Jul 2006, 15:39

Thought you might like to see this. Its been posted on another forum by a lady who originally booked for the first flight and then was rebooked onto the revised first flight at 50% off. Now you will see its off again
The funny bit is the bit about the MD personally ringing her and giving her the excuse that its all down to the delay for the new Airbus.:) :) :)
How thick can some people be. She still wants to use them.

Just thought I'd update you all on this. My plan B has gone into action and I'm now flying out with Virgin as unfortunately the plane won't be ready until September. I'm not complaining though as I have secured another flight for the same dates (even though its with Virgin which is Manchester to Orlando - not a preference of mine) and I have had a full refund together with an excellent deal for any future travel. As this won't be till next year now I would be interested to hear from anyone who maybe going out with them later in the year.
The main reason for their delay is to do with this massive airbus thats being launched, in that because that is now not ready the companies that were going to use it have now decided to hang onto their planes and not sell them until it is ready. It's a bit of a knock on effect (like house buying/selling).
So yes - mad or not - I will still be trying this co out when it eventually gets off the ground. Like someone said in an earlier thread - Richard Branson had to start somewhere - and I think it was good of the managing director to phone me personally rather than leave it to his employees.

come on

10th Jul 2006, 16:09

Oh jeez, bless her!!!

Seriously, I guess there could be a small (very small) degree of truth in what they're saying but the words "wool and "eyes" come to mind!

Yep, Virgin did have to start somewhere, only difference is RB already had a proven track record in establishing a multi million pound company and had a degree of knowledge of what was involved in setting up an airline.

30W

10th Jul 2006, 19:16

I'm afraid the words as, pig, thick,as and **** spring to mind, just not in that order:ugh:

Thunderball 2

11th Jul 2006, 20:46

The Bradfordboy quote will have been manufactured by the man behind Whoflu, including the bit about wanting to hear from people who may be travelling later in the year.

Any thread about WhoFlu belongs in the forum of the British Psychiatric Association, not Pprune.

30W

12th Jul 2006, 08:20

Any thread about WhoFlu belongs in the forum of the British Psychiatric Association, not Pprune.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Hurray! Hopefully people are starting to get the message that, as long predicted, this airline will never happen!!
30W

wan2fly

12th Jul 2006, 11:11

What a fantastic positive and informative post you made there !!! NOT:rolleyes:

come on

12th Jul 2006, 11:15

Ah, good to hear from someone in the flywho positive camp!

I thought you guys had been gagged by signing your confidentiality agreements.

I understand the cabin crew are being paid basic salary until you start operating.

GK430

12th Jul 2006, 13:36

Oh well, if they have CC, do they have any tech crew - because if they have, what type(s) do they have on their licences:confused:

A spot of training might be on the cards if they got round to recruiting umm...
767 crew, nah! L.1011 rated guys....:ugh: Hang on, there was a 747...uh, -100 or geriatric similar at one stage, and of course we're back to a 310 now.

Umm, how many seats were they selling per flight - guess it depended on the "type of the month" ;)

......flynever - get real if you have succumbed to this nonsense:D

21SNM

12th Jul 2006, 14:28

after reading through everyone's post we want to know why you all care so much about an airline that obviously has nothing to do with any of you.

coming from birmingham ourselves we would like for this airline to set up as it is a much needed service from the midlands.

give them a chance, if you all know so much where's your airline????????????

:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=

warkman

12th Jul 2006, 18:47

21SNM

As a midlander, what i want is a service that flies, a service that does not discriminate in their premium cabin against premium passengers buying a seat for their under sevens, that has a seat which is to the quality of current buisness class such as Virgin's Upper class, or BA's Club World, or Continental that reclines almost flat, that has clubhouses at the airports it flies into and out of again, which allow passengers paying a premium price for them and their children to use, not set arbitary age limits.
Now which of the above does Fly Who meet? :suspect:
The much needed service is adequatly provided by Continental and for the people whom price is the major item, Monarch etc..

21SNM

12th Jul 2006, 19:06

i dont believe that flywho are discriminationg against passengers with children under 7 at all, I feel that they are giving people an option as I dont have children myself i wouldnt want to pay more to sit in there gold cabin and have a child sitting next to me complaining throughout the flight.

if you enjoy flying continental and stopping over in newark then carry on but personal id rather see what flywho can offer

:) :) :)

warkman

12th Jul 2006, 19:25

21SNM

What a load of rubbish. You are tarring every child under seven with the same brush.
I have sat next to more whining adults than children in buisness class.
As they are flying primarily a B&S route to a family destination, what a stupid rule.
What is the option then for people with children? sit in the back in those very tight seats with very little recline (yes I did try the seats at one of the travel shows they turned up at) or fly with someone else.
Automatically your revenue base has been diminished.
Guess what? never going to get my money, even when he is over 7.

But again, please answer, what of the list I set does Fly never meet?
What are they actually offering against the established current airlines flying out of BHX?
Old style Premium Economy seats with again, poor recline and not that wide?
Use of which buisness lounge at BHX and at where? Sanford?
2 pieces of luggage with a combined weight of 30KG??? sorry 20Kg for the cattle class

So, no lounge availability, no decent recline, least luggage allowance and all for a price more than Monarch who give more for less from the same airport.
Good marketing strategy that :p

30W

12th Jul 2006, 19:30

Wan2fly

What a fantastic positive and informative post you made there !!! NOT

Merely applauding a dose of reality from another contributor.......

21SNM

12th Jul 2006, 19:33

jmc757

12th Jul 2006, 19:43

The main reason for their delay is to do with this massive airbus thats being launched, in that because that is now not ready the companies that were going to use it have now decided to hang onto their planes and not sell them until it is ready. It's a bit of a knock on effect (like house buying/selling).

Have I had too much to drink or are flyblue/who/where/when actually blaming the delays on the A380?!

warkman

12th Jul 2006, 21:23

Funnily enough when i book a flight its to go on holiday not to sit in some snobby lounge in an airport.

The cattle class is still better than the likes of thomson who are the only other carrier who go to sanford direct from bhx.

If its not for you fine dont use it, why feel the need to voice your nasty little opinions on the internet.

ROFLMAO!

First you want to be a "snob" and only have adults around you in the so-called "Gold Cabin" (or more like 1980's buisness cabin), then you call airport lounges snobby!

When I book a flight I excpect it to take off. As what seems to be the official mouthpiece for Fly never, what about answering the question I posed.
What is so great about the Fly Never service on offer?
Even the thomson flight allows more baggage than you will. AND they actually fly to Sanford, something Fly never havent acheived in almost three years. Now you are threatening to subject the passengers to a A310 ROFL!
Still, plenty of time to yet again change the plane and the name and the service and, well just about everything yet again

I love the fact that yet again, to try and discuss this non flying airline with anyone from Fly Never, you end up with a personal attack.

Love it! :D :D

21SNM

13th Jul 2006, 08:26

come on

13th Jul 2006, 10:24

What's wrong with wanting to use an airport lounge (snooty or otherwise)?

I don't consider myself a snob but I guess we all are to some extent. I also don't want to be surrounded by children and go to lengths to avoid it when travelling. Sometimes it's unavoidable if you are travelling to a destination popular with families and I fully understand that, in which case I am the one that needs to be tollerant. Going back to the origianl point, having access to a lounge at both ends of your journey makes the whole process of being "processed" through an airport a little more tolerable and sometimes even enjoyable.

The basic idea of flywho is a good one in the rights hands, not in those of a bunch of clowns and amateurs. I'm afriad they've missed the boat anyway, the charter operators have got their act together and now offer premium cabins on their long haul flights that are very competetively priced and offer and very pleasant flying experience.

EarthOrbitor

13th Jul 2006, 11:08

sorry to interupt this fascinating dicussion

but are Flywho REALLY going to get off the ground? When is the official launch day? Have they been seen to be doing any marketing/promotion in the press?

warkman

13th Jul 2006, 19:29

When i fly i dont want to be surrounded with kids - simple.

However doesnt mean i want to be in some snooty lounge either.

Thomson may have more luggage but they dont go all year round.
Glad you find yourself so amusing, but really if you dont want to use them, then dont just because you dont want to doesnt mean everyone else has to feel the same as you.

Nobody is saying that, which is quite interesting, most people who have booked with Fly never have had to change all their plans time and time again.

At least Fly never do have something going all year round, the inability to get off the ground.
How many years is it now since the original inaugural flight date?
how many chnages of aircraft?
How many flights to Florida have Thomson flown in that time??

And you want to be compared favourably with them??

Not an argument you can ever win.

come on

14th Jul 2006, 14:44

Website now has flight 7th October as the first flight.

bradfordboy

14th Jul 2006, 14:52

come on

Thats to Sanford.
They reckon they are going to St Petes/Clearwater on the 5th October.;) ;)

marlowe

15th Jul 2006, 06:30

All this banter about seat pitch,gold cabin class,weight allowance etc etc really doesnt matter because lets face it the airline is not going to happen!!!!!

warkman

6th Aug 2006, 16:19

come on
Thats to Sanford.
They reckon they are going to St Petes/Clearwater on the 5th October.;) ;)

Nope changed again :rolleyes:

St petes now 19th October on the Fly Never website
Sanford now 14th October.

Call Established

7th Aug 2006, 08:22

Rumours that White from Portugal have been seen around BHX and talking to Fly Who using the A310 they have ????

warkman

7th Aug 2006, 17:29

Rumours that White from Portugal have been seen around BHX and talking to Fly Who using the A310 they have ????

Hmm interesting

Realistic Flier

22nd Aug 2006, 16:57

Having read through all the comments on FlyWho, it seems that this venture is tainted with the same degree of procrastination that effects BHX - moving on. Living 30 minutes from BHX, nothing would help me and my associates more than having the facility to travel west to key gateways in the USA, using proven carriers. The local press have been reporting for over 30 years about a runway extension, and while BHX have talked - others have walked - leaving Central England almost static. I will not fly Continental, nor will my counterparts in the USA. The aircraft used by Continental is merely a domestic aircraft, in fact I have flown domestic in the USA into Newark, left the plane and then re-boarded the very same plane back to Birmingham. Flying from Manchester, when possible, or London if necessary, many of my conversations on board revolve around the BHX route shortfalls, travellers want to fly from BHX but scheduled trans-atlantic operators are just not there. Not everyone wants to fly on a Charter, many travellers do want to pay for the service of 'turning left' and relaxing in a private lounge, and we DO pay for this service - this in turn allows competitive economy fares on the same aircraft. Should FlyWho eventually commence operations, it will need to market itself as 'Family Carrier' and leave the Business/Upper Class marketplace to the serious carriers. BHX will not/can not attract serious trans-atlantic competition until a suitable runway facility is available, so don't hold your breath.

OltonPete

22nd Aug 2006, 19:14

Irrespective of will they won't they fly I also believe that they
have aimed at the wrong market, let alone the farce of obtaining
an aircraft.

As for the runway there is only anecdotal evidence that it has lost
BHX services. Although apparently at one BHX roadshow, a BHX representative was allegedly reported as saying that Delta
were not interested due to the runway restrictions (Atlanta service).

However it has to be remembered that the excuses used in the
recent press releases relating to the reduction in pax this summer
came from the same management team but at least they have given
us locals something to smile about ;) .

Rumour has it that BHX are still determined to get the runway
extended by 2012 yet other projects might be delayed.

To be fair to BHX on this point this is one heck of a project with the
A45 a stones throw from runway 33 and with 51% still owned
by the various Local Councils it will be difficult enough to get
this done by 2012 (funding, planning etc).

If the problem with CO is the 757, there appears to be little respite
in the near future with the current rumours: -

US (PHL) - possible for 2007
NW (DTW) - ???
DL (JFK) - Possible for 2007/8

all by 757.

Pete

Realistic Flier

23rd Aug 2006, 11:21

Without labouring on a point, there were plans published in the Birmingham Evening Mail, way back in the early 1970's, togerther with a letter I wrote regarding the same being published, showing the proposed runway extension across the A45. That's over 30 years of nothing but talk, whilst others have moved on and beyond.

So back to BHX procrastination and regular travellers frustration of wanting BHX, long haul. If Birmingham, asa city, can't get its act together in 30 plus years, I must share the doubts of most that 2012 will not see the additional extension to the runway. Whilst my main used routes are to the USA, the failure to be able to offer long haul to the Far East, the emerging major global economic region, puts further doubt on the credability of BHX as a true player on the UK airport scene. Still, the lads and ladettes can always get over to Prague/Amsterdam etc on the cheap................True internationa status!

My last thought on this - offer a air shuttle service to the serious airports, LHR, LGW & MAN so we can at least avoid the dire car journeys.