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View Full Version : DragonAir and Association at odds - IFALPA ban

DrunkenAir
17th Feb 2006, 09:45
I just want to let everyone know that the Dragonair Pilot Association and Dragonair are at a disagreement over manning of the new (ex SIA) 744 freighters arriving later this year.

The company wish to recruit direct entry crew in the USA and give away the majority of commands to US bases. Everyone at DragonAir is part of a seniority list that ensures progession to command in order. The company do not wish to honour their agreement in this matter.

This link will bring you to the IFALPA website and give details of the ban
http://www.ifalpa.org/jobs/mar/06IND075%20Request%20for%20Mutual%20Assistance%20-%20Hong%20Kong.pdf

This link leads you to the Association website
www.dpa.hk (http://www.dpa.hk)

When I arrived here commands were coming up in around 2 years or less. The promotion prospects were the main reasoin for my decision to come to here. Since then the company has wewtleased its aircraft to Air China with further expansion plans curtailed. The only expansion occurring is the 744 fleet and I (and many more) support the DPA in its attempt to make the company honour its obligations. This ban is only part of the process as I understand that legal action over breach of contract has also commenced. If they do not succeed then commands will probably run into the 5 or 6 year mark - depending on resignations.

To those considering taking these positions let it be known that you are not welcome.
Flap 5
17th Feb 2006, 10:33
This is the way things happen in Dragonair.
petitfromage
18th Feb 2006, 07:20
I think what DA tried to say was "Please help us and your future contract by honouring the ban; once the issues are resolved you will be most welcome to join a Dragon Air with a more secure contract. Thank you"

Mate, I hope with your distinct lack of tact, you are no where near the negotiating table :ouch:

Ive many friends at KA. Amazing how bad things have got in just 3 years. Goodluck to you all.
Toad Hall
18th Feb 2006, 11:07
Totally agree that's not the way for the airline to proceed. Try working for Emirates we are getting screwed at every turn, its a shame we can't get protection from IFALPA.
Good Luck
TH
captjns
18th Feb 2006, 12:58
Try working for Emirates we are getting screwed at every turn, its a shame we can't get protection from IFALPA.
Good Luck
TH

Its a shame but also a rude awakening to true reality... when you work for any of these airlines in the sand box. you are actually employed by their respective Monarchys'. Good, bad or indifferent, these airlines, or er monarchies will never allow IFALPA to corrupt the minds of their pilots. While the pay may be fair, but is the Quality of Life really worth it?
Flap 5
18th Feb 2006, 15:54
PF,

I was just stating a fact. I've been there, done that - as it were. :hmm:
Wizofoz
18th Feb 2006, 20:16
........And you decided on a recruitment ban because of how effective it was for Cathay perhaps:confused: :confused: :confused:
vikena
18th Feb 2006, 23:39
First of all guys look at your contract of employment and general employment contract for expat pilots.

Be very clear that this recruitment ban will in no way dissuade local pilots from applying for jobs and taking them if offered. And with the apparent lull in expansion of DA in Hong Kong ( which I understand is the core group of DA pilots)the urgency of requiring expats is probably not that high.So dont try to beat someone over a barrel when you've nothing to beat them with.

The recruitment ban mandated by Cathay pilots in their issue ,in the medium and long term, was nothing short of an embarrassment to HKAOA and IFALPA. So having an Ifalpa mandate in this context really means precious little.

And the most obvious point , which everyone knows is , you must take responsibility for your own destinys. A guy who may be offered a job is not responsible for maintaining or furthering a better deal for DA pilots.

If you do the brave thing you will walk out , take responsibility for your own actions and positions and then IFALPA will assist you.

I'm in a different goldfish bowl and thats how it looks to me.

I do wish you well though

vikena
Mr. Bloggs
19th Feb 2006, 02:26
Do you think management will fire anyone? And yes, they don’t like going to court because they usually don't win.
Good luck with it all.
GlueBall
19th Feb 2006, 06:13
You should contact ALPA in the USA directly about your concerns of prospective U.S. pilots getting direct entry -400 jobs. There are many hungry ALPA pilots looking for work. But I seriously doubt that ALPA would classify its out-of-work members as "Scabs" when accepting employment at foreign air carriers.

From Cathay's "49ers" [51] we have learned that we're in a dog-eat-dog profession. :{
captjns
19th Feb 2006, 12:47
You should contact ALPA in the USA directly about your concerns of prospective U.S. pilots getting direct entry -400 jobs. There are many hungry ALPA pilots looking for work. But I seriously doubt that ALPA would classify its out-of-work members as "Scabs" when accepting employment at foreign air carriers.

From Cathay's "49ers" [51] we have learned that we're in a dog-eat-dog profession. :{

Yes, in order for ALPO to maintain its dues paying base of pilots on their rosters they will redefine the term "SCAB" to suit their needs. Oh well there may be some current ALPA members flying for the airline that may be affected by this. I wonder what they would think. Would they still continue to support ALPA?:hmm:
oicur12
20th Feb 2006, 07:44
Rollspoiler

"It is NOT KA who wetleased ITS aircraft and NOT to Air China.
It IS CAL who wetleased ITS 744 TO KA. ––little difference to crybaby missing his bottle... “MOMMYY, I SHOULD BE THE 744 CAPTAIN IMMEDIATELY"

Ahhh, geeez, I reckon you will regret saying this dude.

Incoming.
Fly747
5th Mar 2006, 11:15
On the other hand it may be worth knowing that there is no bond at CX or KA. I believe it is illegal in HKG. So if you want to defy the IFALPA ban and accept the poor deal being offered then it would be a good way of getting a free -400 rating!
I'm sure the company are behind the drag curve on the worsening pilot shortage and that market forces will help to sort this problem out.
But with industrial relations getting worse at KA it may not be a pleasant place to work right now.
Airbubba
5th Mar 2006, 11:35
>>The company wish to recruit direct entry crew in the USA and give away the majority of commands to US bases.

Are they still hiring? I've got a 744 buddy from Northwest looking for a job...
Fly747
5th Mar 2006, 11:49
Not started hiring yet but but will do soon with LAX base initially.
appalled
7th Mar 2006, 11:43
Well the war has started. KA have just sacked 2 pilots for refusing to work on a Guaranteed Day Off. It appears that KA management wish to emulate CX. This isn't going to be a fun place to work even if you do decide to ignore the recruitment ban!

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
captjns
7th Mar 2006, 12:26
Well the war has started. KA have just sacked 2 pilots for refusing to work on a Guaranteed Day Off. It appears that KA management wish to emulate CX. This isn't going to be a fun place to work even if you do decide to ignore the recruitment ban!

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:


Any direct statements from the pilots themselves?
Flap 5
7th Mar 2006, 16:23
In my experience, if this is true, the pilots will not do much about it. :ugh:
vikena
8th Mar 2006, 03:49
well guys,

Its not altogether that pretty.

DA men are in a reasonably tricky position and I dont mean the reprimandees.

You stand up now together for the good guys or forever be the not so good guys.I dont even have to mention Cathay Pacific disaster.Shame on every CX guy who did not walk out. Shame.

Sometimes a good man has to make a good call and I don't want to hear any moaning from ex Ansett guys.

Reasonable men have not been unreasonable.

Decide soon so that egos can once and for all be put to bed and professionalism can return to pilots in HK. Not often do pilots get to have the chance to defend some of their best colleagues and their profession.

V
Flap 5
8th Mar 2006, 16:01
It has been said many times before on this forum: a Hong Kong company can sack anyone for no reason as long as they receive their entitlement to three months notice and allowances. You can be sure that whatever the reason for their dismissal it will not be cited in any dismissal letter. They will just be dismissed for no reason.

The DPA lawyer has been approached previously on a number of occasions and the advice has always been as above.
rollSpoiler
8th Mar 2006, 19:09
Airbubba,

KA is NOT going to be the only game in town!
Tell your buddy about these 744 jobs NOW available (or upcoming VERY SOON) in and vicinity of HKG:
Of course everyone knows CX is non-stop hiring since 2003..
Then the startup Oasis http://www.oasis-air.com/en/careers.aspx#crw
Jade cargo just across in Shenzen http://www.jadecargo.com/joinus/pilot.asp
Plus both EVA and CAL in Taiwan.
Korean is just now interviewing and hiring (captains only)
More in China: Air China in Beijing has a contract for 744 freighter crews.
Soon to start another in China called Yangtze River freight crews will be based in Shanghai.
Let's not forget SIN Cargo (if he is desperate..) http://www.siacargo.com/First%20Officer%20and%20Captain%20positions.pdf

I think need not worry about the foolish acts of power-mad airline managers:
Never has there been so much opportunity available in Asia for 744 pilots.
The MARKET will teach them a lesson, when pilots vote with their feet!