What would you do if your radio failed?

[Cricket23]

I was doing a bit of revision, and realised that apart from the following, I'm not sure what to do if my radio failed. I'll take it up with my instructor next time, but in the meantime, I'd...
1) Check the frequency
2) Check it was still switched on.
3) Check that the squelch wasn't up/down too much
4) Check the headset leads hadn't been pulled out.
5) Check the fuses.
6) Squawk 7600
Having done this on approaching the airfield I would call them at the appropriate reporting points (state that I was calling 'blind'), and enter the circuit whilst keeping a good lookout.
Have I missed something?
What would you do?
C23
PS - I must make a note of what the light-gun signals are, coz I admit I don't know them, do you?

[Andy_RR]

a few other things - not that I'm an expert!
- check another frequency?
- hand mike?
- use other sockets and PTT?
I should know this better, since I had to answer the same question for my Aus GFPT test a few weeks ago

[Spitoon]

Speaking as a controller (as well as a pilot) I think you need to be more specific on the bit about approaching the airfield. A lot depends on the class of airspace and whether you have recieved a clearance etc. If you're talking about an airfield in class G airspace without ATC you need to think about whether you have the permissions necessary (PPR and the like) but then just keep a darn good lookout and hope there's a signal square or, at the very least, a windsock!

[rhovsquared]

go down AVE.F (US NAS suggestion) Assigned, Vectored, Expected (as) Filed

[Cricket23]

To be a bit more specific as Spitoon requested.

I was thinking about class G airspace and would have already 'phoned ahead to get the weather and PPR if required.

The kind circumstance I was thinking about was that I had been talking to ATC, and then the radio cuts out. As far as clearences are concerned, let's just assume that none had been received prior to the radio failing.

[172driver]

In addition to the above:

Check the audio panel.

From real life experience, after the stated and obvious (volume, frequency, etc) check sockets first (i.e. try co-pilot's side, using RH PTT), they are the cause of much grief. Then try hand-held (if avail).

If still no joy and you must proceed w/o radio, check if any specific NORDO procedures are in place for the airport you are flying to. Published in the Jepp plates. If so, follow procedure and await light signals.

[A and C]

Fly the aircraft.

[IO540]

This is not the answer anybody asking the question will be looking for, but obviously it should be

Reach in the bag and pull out the handheld radio, connect it to the spare VHF antenna socket (already installed just for the purpose) and switch it on

:O

[Genghis the Engineer]

The most important thing, IMHO, is what you did before having a radio failure.

That is ensured you knew your destination's non-radio join procedure, and if they won't accept non-radio traffic under any circumstances - have decided upon a radio-failure diversion (and known their procedures).

(Almost) invariably this will also require you to be up to speed on how to fly an overhead join and read the signal square.

Apart from that I'm with A_and_C, don't muck about with diagnostics in the air, concentrate on flying non-radio, and do your investigations on the ground.

G

Suffered this too often!

[Kolibear]

Pick up my mobile phone & call the airfield that I'm flying to.

[splang]

having checked to see if it is a genuine radio failure then:

squawk 7700 for 1 minute then 7600 for 15 minutes and repeat

of course, this would be to notify radar controller....

[splang]

oh , and as for light guns:

green generally means land, red generally means don't!!

[wingman863]

My radio did fail on me when I was in on of my early lessons. I was with an instructor so I flew while he did what he could to fix it, which wasn't much because it was rather buggered. I seem to remember we stayed around the same position near the edge of the control zone, just outside the controlled airspace and then magically another PA-28 appeared and "intercepted us". It turned out to be really good fun as we followed the other plane back to the airfield and landed. It turned out that some intrical part of the radio had died and the control tower had realised before we did and called the flight school who sent up another plane to get us.

[Genghis the Engineer]

My radio did fail on me when I was in on of my early lessons. I was with an instructor so I flew while he did what he could to fix it, which wasn't much because it was rather buggered. I seem to remember we stayed around the same position near the edge of the control zone, just outside the controlled airspace and then magically another PA-28 appeared and "intercepted us". It turned out to be really good fun as we followed the other plane back to the airfield and landed. It turned out that some intrical part of the radio had died and the control tower had realised before we did and called the flight school who sent up another plane to get us.

Bit worrying that your instructor apparently didn't know the way back on his own.

One hopes that somebody decided to make a bit of an exercise out of it, rather than that the shepherd aircraft was really required.

G

[Whirlybird]

I thought I had radio failure when flying to Limoges in France last summer. Actually I didn't; it was just that the French controllers couldn't be bothered to reply till I got really close, but I didn't know that at the time. Here's what I did....

1) Tried the other radio.
2) Looked in my flight guide and tried another frequency, on both radios.
3) Realised I'd reached the edge of the control zone, so started to orbit outside it.
4) Reached in the back for my strategically placed handheld radio, and tried that.
5) When I still had no reply, I realised failure of three radios was unlikely. So time to think carefully before acting....
6) Decided to keep a good lookout and carry on towards Limoges for a bit. If still no radio contact, I decided to either call them on my mobile phone, or land at a small airstrip which was fairly close, and sort everything out on the ground.

Eventually Limoges talked to me, so there was no problem. But it's quite useful to think about what you would do in such circumstances...saves a few orbits and is easier than thinking in the air!

[dublinpilot]

I'm with Genghis & A&C on this.

I always check the radio failure procedures for where I am going before I set off. This may sound very boring, and it is. It is also more difficult than might first seem, because often the rt failure procedures for non IFR traffic aren't made very clear. I remember starting a discussion here 18 months ago, about what was a "suitable aerodrome", as this is where I was supposed to divert to in case of a radio failure outside controlled airspace.

A&C is spot on when he says "fly the airplane". It is VERY easy to get fixated on a non-life threatening problem, to the exclusion of everything else that is happening. Keep asking yourself if you are getting fixated on the problem, and ignoring more important responsibilities.

Finally, other things that you might consider. Is the alternator still providing power? Perhaps you've had a complete electrical failure, not just a radio failure. If this is the case, try turning off all electrics apart from the radio and the transponder. If you still don't have enough power then try recycling the alternator.

dp

[Chilli Monster]

squawk 7700 for 1 minute then 7600 for 15 minutes and repeat.

Sorry - Why?

7700 is emergency, 7600 is a radio failure. The two are totally separate.

Therefore - radio failure only, 7600 only.

For a flight conducted VFR wholly in class 'G' the question you really want to ask yourself is - "when do you squawk 7600?". Might be worth having a read of this thread (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=20178) to read various viewpoints.

[wombat13]

Fly the aircraft.

Cricket23, I know you are looking for the answer that will get you through your test, but A & C has hit the nail on the head.

Yes, yes I know there are lot's of things you can do in the air, but be realistic of your ability to accept an increased workload. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Best bloody mantra in the world and yes, sqwaking 7600 is communicating. Make sure you have the first two under control before fighting to get the code in. And by the way, I don't agree to 7700 for one minute before switching to 7600 as suggested by Splang. In my experience ATC are not stupid people and will recognise 7600 without the unnecessary drama of 7700 first.

In the circuit pre GST at a class D field I had radio failure. ATC made a point of calling the club to comment that I had done everything right (all the way down to being the smart-arse in flashing the landing light to acknowledge the solid green lamp on short final).

Only I knew how badly I had flown the circuit and the aircraft in trying to deal with a radio failure. Notwithstanding the fact my ability to cope with the in flight workload has increased, never again will I so disregard:

AVIATE
NAVIGATE
COMMUNICATE

The Wombat

[splang]

Sorry - Why?

7700 is emergency, 7600 is a radio failure. The two are totally separate.

Therefore - radio failure only, 7600 only.

For a flight conducted VFR wholly in class 'G' the question you really want to ask yourself is - "when do you squawk 7600?". Might be worth having a read of this thread (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=20178) to read various viewpoints.

Cos' thats what it says in the Thomas Thom flight manual! Probably so it is picked up at a problem?

S

[A and C]

I will add something to "fly the aircraft" if all the flight was in class G airspace I would not even bother to squawk 7600, just fly a normal CCT at the destination unless they publish a radio failure drill.

Then I would look out for light signals from the tower.

Not being able to hear what is being said on the radio is an advantage as a non-radio aircraft enters the CCT, from some of the reaction to non-radio traffic in the CCT you would think that if the radio failed the wings would fall off !.

[wombat13]

Cos' thats what it says in the Thomas Thom flight manual! Probably so it is picked up at a problem?

S

I have never heard of this. Whilst I do not have the said book to hand I would suggest you discuss this with your FI or if you are feeling really brave your CFI.

As said before, ATC are not stupid people. 75 taken alive, 76 in a fix, 77 gone to heaven. Universal codes.

You turn up at the pearlly gates with a radio failure and they will not let you in.............

The Wombat

[dublinpilot]

77 gone to heaven

I prefer to think of it as going, rather than gone.....leaves a little hope to still postpone the trip :}

[Chilli Monster]

Cos' thats what it says in the Thomas Thom flight manual! Probably so it is picked up at a problem?

The 7600 display on radar also does this - hence no requirement to squawk 7700 first. The illustrious Mr Thom is, in this case, very very wrong.

As said before, ATC are not stupid people.

I wish someone would explain that to my ex-wife! ;)

[splang]

Fair enough - for those who are interested it said this on page 243 on book one - the air pilot's manual.

S

[LowNSlow]

IO540 you don't always have to have a socket for the external aerial available. I use an Icom A-3 tucked into the back pocket of the passenger seat. This puts the aerial the same distance from the instrument panel as the external area and seems to work well.

Kolibear I have found that the background noise in the average light aircraft is too loud to make conversation practical. Going back to he original post, in the past I have landed outside the Control Zone and phoned for clearance which was duly granted to be available within a certain timeframe.

[ronnie3585]

Having the numbers of the tower in your phone is a great thing to fall back on. I know of two friends who have obtained landing clearence on their mobiles after coms and handheld failure.

[Papa Charlie]

IO540 you don't always have to have a socket for the external aerial available. I use an Icom A-3 tucked into the back pocket of the passenger seat. This puts the aerial the same distance from the instrument panel as the external area and seems to work well.
Kolibear I have found that the background noise in the average light aircraft is too loud to make conversation practical. Going back to he original post, in the past I have landed outside the Control Zone and phoned for clearance which was duly granted to be available within a certain timeframe.
Returning to Shoreham with radio failure in a PA28 a couple of years ago, the mobile phone solution worked a treat. ATC were able to give runway, wind direction and gave us clearance for a straight in approach rather than join a busy circuit. It was noisy but ATC and I could communicate which was the important thing.
Agree on concentrate first and foremost on flying - I was in RH seat at time so my friend could continue flying without further stress.

[wombat13]

I prefer to think of it as going, rather than gone.....leaves a little hope to still postpone the trip :}

:O

You know, I only "heard" it the once from my FI and never thought of it like that. I stand corrected!

Just looked at my 2003 edition Flying Training 1 and blow me down there it is, "you should squawk 7700 on your transponder for 1 Minute, then 7600 for 15; and repeat.
Utter tosh.

Much more interesting is further down where it says "For more about emergency radio calls and radio failure procedures, see vol 7 of The Air Pilots Manual - Radiotelephony. Again in my 2003 edition it says "to indicate radio failure by squawking 7600..............." No reference whatsoever to 7700.

As the Monster says, they have got it wrong in the case of Vol 1. You might want to drop them a note Splang.

Happy flying and welcome back to the fold. 10 years is too long away.

The Wombat

[splang]

Thanks Wombat - good to be back!:D

[ThePirateKing]

Isn't there something about flying in triangles? Or am I confused again?

TPK:ok:

[rotorblades]

just stick your head out of the window and shout very loudly
:eek: "london can your hear me?"

[dublinpilot]

"london can your hear me?"

Reply: "Noooooo!!!"

:D

[bookworm]

I always check the radio failure procedures for where I am going before I set off. This may sound very boring, and it is. It is also more difficult than might first seem, because often the rt failure procedures for non IFR traffic aren't made very clear. I remember starting a discussion here 18 months ago, about what was a "suitable aerodrome", as this is where I was supposed to divert to in case of a radio failure outside controlled airspace.

So where are these "radio failure procedures" published? If not in the AIP (and I can't find any of substance there), why not? And if they're not there, am I not entitled to take the general advice in the AIP of simply "landing at the nearest suitable aerodrome, taking account of visual landing aids and keeping watch for instructions as may be issued by visual signals from the ground"?

[wombat13]

OK, having kicked this radio failure 7700 / 7600 issue to death and concluding it is utter tosh, I did one of the more dangerous things and got to thinking...................

Is there an argument for a student flying solo to demand a little more clearance from ATC in the event of radio failure??? Hence the reference to the practice in Volume One, The Air Pilots Manual - Flying Training.

Really what I am asking is what has posessed them to put it in there. I don't think that just because I have never heard of it (nor anyone else who has responded), it is totally without foundation.

Now I know, giving latitude is not my strong point, but it is when I look at the copy sitting on my desk with "CAA LASORS recommended" across the top, that I find myself wondering:

What has possessed them to put it in there?

How can it be that I missed it when I "read" the book a few years back?

Is Splang the only person who is reading these books all the way through?

:}

The Wombat

[dublinpilot]

So where are these "radio failure procedures" published? If not in the AIP (and I can't find any of substance there), why not? And if they're not there, am I not entitled to take the general advice in the AIP of simply "landing at the nearest suitable aerodrome, taking account of visual landing aids and keeping watch for instructions as may be issued by visual signals from the ground"?

Yes Bookworm, that's pretty much what I mean.

I check the AIP entry for the airfield. If there is guidance there, then I print it off, and stick it on my kneeboard. There usually is something there when the airport is located within controlled airspace. If nothing, then follow the general enroute AIP stuff. If flying out of Ireland (where I'm used to), then I print off the general page from the AIP too, and stick that on my kneeboard.

I also think about what airfield nearby my destination would be a "suitable airfield" and how I would get there non-radio.

dp

[Gertrude the Wombat]

So where are these "radio failure procedures" published?I discovered the procedures at one place by asking ATC whilst on a tower tour. "Yes, I know it says we're only open to radio traffic in the AIP, but if you're based here you can still come back, enter the ATZ and land, following standard radio failure procedures. Look, [hunts around for a bit behind the desk] I can even find the thingy for flashing a green light at you! - haven't used it for as far back as I can remember, mind."

[helicopter-redeye]

I've only had the one. Headset mike went US in flight.

Swap headset in use for headseat in adjacent seat, rinse and repeat.

7600 + C sqw

Join circuit overhead & land visually (easier on rotors, no tarmac reqd!!)

h-r;)

(NB try another frequency first, number one may be closed ....)

[Chilli Monster]

Is there an argument for a student flying solo to demand a little more clearance from ATC in the event of radio failure???
Hence the reference to the practice in Volume One, The Air Pilots Manual - Flying Training.
Really what I am asking is what has posessed them to put it in there. I don't think that just because I have never heard of it (nor anyone else who has responded), it is totally without foundation.

I've never come across either whilst flying or from an ATC point of view, and still maintain it's a) not necessary and; b) a pointless exercise which would, if anything, confuse the person on the ground who actually sees the squawk. Something to remember:

If the radio stops working - the aircraft isn't going to stop flying!

R/T failure is not an emergency - it's just an annoyance that has to be overcome. In the student scenario that student isn't going to be IFR/IMC. There should be nothing to preclude them from returning to their own airfield. If it's in Class 'D' then they're instructors should have briefed them on the based A/C non-R/T procedures (they do exist) before they let them out of the zone. If the airfield is in Class 'G', whether ATC or A/G, then likewise they should have been briefed beforehand - if they haven't they're not being taught properly - which is a bigger problem.

Losing a radio, in the majority of PPL circumstances, just means going back to basics.

[aluminium persuader]

cos 7700 flashes up "emerg"

but 7600 flashes up "rdo fail".

There's absolutely no point in messing around with the transponder. It won't get you noticed any faster. Just squawk 7600 & then concentrate on flying.

Happened to me once, but I lost all the electrics so not even squawking helped. Oh well!
:uhoh:

[BroomstickPilot]

Isn't there something about flying in triangles? Or am I confused again?
TPK:ok:
This is really a question for an elderly ATCO: any old ATCOs out there remember?
I'm not an ATCO, but to the best of my recollection, back in the 1950s this used to be a procedure for aircraft with radio failure while above cloud. I seem to remember that different meanings were ascribed to the direction in which the triangles were flown, but I can't remember what that was. Basically, the idea was that the radar controllers would spot the blip flying triangles and despatch another aircraft to intercept and escort the lost aircraft to safety.
That's all I can remember, anyway.
Best regards,
Broomstick.

[spekesoftly]

This is really a question for an elderly ATCO: any old ATCOs out there remember?
I'm not an ATCO, but to the best of my recollection, back in the 1950s this used to be a procedure for aircraft with radio failure while above cloud. I seem to remember that different meanings were ascribed to the direction in which the triangles were flown, but I can't remember what that was. Basically, the idea was that the radar controllers would spot the blip flying triangles and despatch another aircraft to intercept and escort the lost aircraft to safety.
That's all I can remember, anyway.
Best regards,
Broomstick.

Elderly ATCO? Well OK ......... here goes:-

Emergency Triangle Procedure

"Pilots lost or uncertain of position and experiencing either transmitter or complete radio failure are advised, as a last resort, to carry out a special procedure to indicate to radar controllers that they require assistance.

The aircraft fly at least two triangular patterns, before resuming course, as follows:-

Tx failure only, right hand turns. Complete failure, left hand turns.

Each leg of the triangle should be flown for 2 minutes (where aircraft speed is 300kts or less) or for 1 minute when speed is more than 300kts.

If a triangular pattern is observed, radar controllers shall advise the appropriate Diversion and Distress cell of the position and track and continue to plot the aircraft whilst it is within radar cover."



I believe the above was originally a procedure taught to military pilots, especially relevant when many military aircraft had only a very basic radio fit, no nav aids or transponder, and long before mobile phones!!

I can recall reading of a least one occasion when the procedure proved successful! (Probably read it, a long time ago, in an old copy of RAF 'Air Clues'.

The procedure is still published in the current edition of CAP 493 - UK Manual of Air Traffic Services Part 1.

[Cricket23]

So, we've kicked around what you should do in a radio failure, and some people have mentioned their own experience. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

What other practical experiences have people had?

My own experience (on my QXC) wasn't a radio failure, but a comms failure. Having been granted a frequency change, and having 'dialled up' the new frequency, I was greeted with a load of static. I checked my plog against the chart and yes, I had managed to transpose one of the numbers!

Gave me a little fright, and got me puzzled for a bit, but as people have said Aviate, Navigate and then Communicate.

C23

[Maude Charlee]

If the radio fails, I'll put the telly on. Failing that, fire up the portable DVD player or PSP.

Erm, taxi!

[Genghis the Engineer]

Out of curiosity, am I the only pilot here who routinely flies totally non-radio? Most airfields do not require radio, it is not a legal requirement for cross-country flight in the open FIR, so sometimes I simply don't bother with it - particularly if flying from farmstrip to farmstrip. It's good practice, and also I rather enjoy the peace and quiet!

G

[pulse1]

Had a transmitter failure when just about to enter Class D with a 1200' cloud base. Set 7600 on the transponder and heard ATC warning another aircraft about us, which was comforting.

We were then asked to squawk something like 2130 if we could hear them, which we did.

Then asked to squawk something different if we had any other problems, which we didn't.

We were then given clearance to enter the Class D for approach and join right base for landing. Thanks to excellent ATC and a transponder, no problem at all.

[WorkingHard]

Some time ago when Luton was GA friendly I had a tx failure but could hear (turned out to be a poor mike). Luton were SUPERB. Assumed on my track I was inbound and asked to confirm 7601 negative 7602. We "talked" that way until final to land. VERY WELL DONE LUTON

[RatherBeFlying]

Coming back to CYYZ, the transmitter failed to get the attention of Terminal; so, descended below the floor of the TRSA and continued. When approaching the PCZ, called up Tower and established comm.

[POBJOY]

JUST REMEMBER THAT THE AIRCRAFT WILL NOT KNOW ITS RADIO HAS FAILED,AND WILL FLY OK.
JUST REJOICE THAT YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO PUT UP WITH ALL THE NORMAL RUBBISH,PRETEND YOU ARE IN A SOPWITH CAMEL, AND GO SOMEWHERE FRIENDLY!!
YOU MIGHT ENJOY IT

[Bluebeard]

Have had a radio failure in flight in a C152, routing Seething to North Weald via Ipswich overhead. Think I was last in contact with Wattisham or some RAF base or other receiving a FIS when it packed up. Did all the usual twiddling of knobs and checking of alternator before squawking 7600 and simply continuing my flight home. Made sure I made blind calls, flew the circuit as normal (whilst keeping a VERY good look out) and got there without any drama.

After parking up I rang the tower who said they knew I was coming as D&D had called them. Rang D&D to let them know I was OK. All in all a very interesting experience, not at all a painful one. Incidentally, I think this might also be a good argument for giving local ATSUs a call en route, as if I had not done this then it would have been much harder for all concerned to work out who this non-r/t blip was and where he was going.

[brisl]

Following a radio failure, got home into a class D airspace quite happily using an ICOM portable. No external aerial, but I did have the headset adapter, which I reckon is pretty much essential to avoid cockpit noise. P2 was able to hold the unit near the window, which I guess helped - occasional loss of contact while orbiting (in a Cessna) each time the low wing got between us and home!
I tend to think total electrical failure is more likely than simple radio failure - at least I've experienced two alternator failures so far, but only one radio failure.
While I sometimes carry my handheld GPS, I always carry the portable radio.

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

My first radio failure was on a solo navex returning to Shoreham. It turned out to be a digital problem; I’d knocked one of the audio panel switches while playing with the VOR. I worked it out in the end and got back in communication with the Tower in time to land and get chewed out:sad:. Next stop the Toy Shop for a hand held transciever.
Another interesting comms failure was on the way back from the West Country, while trying to get a clearance through the Solent Zone. I could hear them, but got no response. Eventually they responded to one of my calls with ‘Carrier Only transmission’. In the end they let me through on a combination of One click for Yes, two Clicks for No. I wasn’t aware of Speechless Code at the time. I did make voice contact while overhead, before resorting to Speechless Code again as the distance increased. The problem was eventually traced to flat batteries in the intercom.
The only other comms problem I had with the Solent Zone was on the way to the New Year’s Day fly-in at Compton Abbas some years ago. London Info couldn’t raise them on the landline, so I guess it wasn’t a radio problem.:ok: